Guild Wars 2

the patch really hurt engi, mostly because it changed them significatly, currently i’m struggling in finiding the build that would like to play in pvp/wvw.

Most issues i have are with some traits. With this changes we are forced to choose whole trait line and not some first part of it and some lines just doesn’t have much options to choose from.
Engineers is not that easy class. But my dissapointment mostly goes to top engi players who jus taking previous version of the build they where running it and updating it a bit…kinda sad to see them not testing any new stuff that came out and possible can be more viable then old meta (pvp wise mostly)

Dreamwolf.7423:

Let me clarify, I use p/s on my Engineer. I do NOT spam the 1 key on any class. I HAVE attempted to use all the other options on my Engineer. I’m a casual PvPer, so my skill level in PvP is not “high”. If Engineer is a class built around using kits exclusively, then they should have no weapons available (one of my original arguments). I realize there are many builds available, I’ve tried quite a few. As I mentioned before, Engineer is NOT MY MAIN. I used to be able to hold my own in PvP with my Engineer, now I’m just a cheap rug being ran over repeatedly. Even using kits and all the things that I’ve been FORCED to switch too.

I liked my turrets, I miss my turrets, I want my turrets back.

turrets got nerfed heavily pre patch. don’t run a bad build then complain that you are ineffective. adapt if you want to win PHIW if you want to have ‘fun’ but don’t demand that your badly designed low synergy build isn’t as good as a well designed synergistic build. basically every build will run at least one kit, and if you dont like kits don’t play the class. unless you are full HGH you will want one, and even then you probably want Egun.

my healing bomb build got deleted from the game and it rocked. I’m not complaining though, I adapted and made a brand new 2kit cele build and it’s a dream to play. sure it took me over a week of testing to get it, but it was well worth it.

Hvaran.6327:

the patch really hurt engi, mostly because it changed them significatly, currently i’m struggling in finiding the build that would like to play in pvp/wvw.

Most issues i have are with some traits. With this changes we are forced to choose whole trait line and not some first part of it and some lines just doesn’t have much options to choose from.
Engineers is not that easy class. But my dissapointment mostly goes to top engi players who jus taking previous version of the build they where running it and updating it a bit…kinda sad to see them not testing any new stuff that came out and possible can be more viable then old meta (pvp wise mostly)

My old Build doenst work cause bomb radius is only 180 not 240

Try around with FT it get a bit better with the crit traits.

insanemaniac.2456:

Jerus.4350:

Arantheal.7396:

I’d not go as far as saying that engi got destroyed by the recent patch, but as I’ve pointed out in the other thread, many things didn’t meet the expectations, many build-options don’t exist anymore, once again we have a buglist as long as my roll of toilet-paper, and the few builds that are viable now, don’t even closely resemble the huge versatility that we could pack into pre-patch builds.
Not to mention that we lost many gimmicky traits along the way, that really narrow the choices in builds we currently can make work.

Even tho our condi-builds are still strong for PvP, I don’t see us being as supportive as before anymore when it comes to dungeons/fractals (just look at the pathetic vulnerability-amount we can stack now).
And apart from a very glassy S/D spec, I had little to no success with crafting power-builds in general for PvP. It seems like we lost a great deal of our hybrid-builds, last, but not least because of the cele nerf in general and the altered condi-formulas.
Rampage still can work, but – again – results in very glassy one-trick ponies. It feels way harder now to stall 1v2’s with defensive specs. And with the nerf to bleed in general, it feels like FT is now not only viable, but required for successful condi-builds because of the toolbelt.

This new balancing is odd, and I still need time to adapt.

Anyways, all I can recommend as of now is not to craft ascended gear of any type, since the nerf/bug-fix bat still will strike a couple of times, and not always on places that we can predict now.
As of now, WvW roaming is a dead horse for me, and I will give it time at least until the release of HoT before I start investing gold into my gear again.

2 things

First, totally agree on the vuln duration hit being annoying, that 30% condi duration was a key part of one of our stronger niches in vuln production. That said I do think we gained a lot in Damage and we do have a bit stronger might production, though not enough to take over might completely and still fall to Ele in Damage. But, overall I think we’re still solid in PVE with more options.

Second thing is crafting ascended, honestly, with the ascended swapping, yes I’d recommend being wary and being open or even expect to possibly swap it, but I wouldn’t hold off out of fear, just know you might end up wanting to change it out at the cost of your runes. I just made a Sinister sets, if they nerf burning in a way that I feel my PVE condi build ideas just can’t be justified anymore I’ll just swap it to a second set of Zerk and put it on my thief or even jus thave 2 fully decked out Engi’s

were in kinda a transition period atm… and we have the worst of both worlds in terms of condi duration, especially in pve. steel packed powders vuln duration was nerfed probably with HoT in mind because unshakable wont be a thing any more with the new break bars… so we got a kinda random nerf there AND we have less free condi duration AND unshakable is still a thing. itll prolly get better when HoT comes out, whenever that is.

and lemme tell ya, i have about 5 ascended sets + 1 exotic set across 3 engis and theres nothing quite like that kind of versatility. its really amazing to have so many options, yet i still wish i had a LOT more (mostly in terms of sigil and rune options).

Steel Packed Powder was always five seconds. It’s just the additional condition duration from Explosives made it appear longer in the tool tip, which is fine—because everyone else got hit with the same nerf.

We’re still by and far the best vulnerability stacker in the game, making us incredibly valuable in any boss fight that lasts longer than 10-15 seconds (like most fractals). Dungeon have always been a wash, but that content is so mindnumbingly easy that building only for the most optimal comp is kind of silly.

Phineas Poe.3018:

insanemaniac.2456:

Jerus.4350:

Arantheal.7396:

I’d not go as far as saying that engi got destroyed by the recent patch, but as I’ve pointed out in the other thread, many things didn’t meet the expectations, many build-options don’t exist anymore, once again we have a buglist as long as my roll of toilet-paper, and the few builds that are viable now, don’t even closely resemble the huge versatility that we could pack into pre-patch builds.
Not to mention that we lost many gimmicky traits along the way, that really narrow the choices in builds we currently can make work.

Even tho our condi-builds are still strong for PvP, I don’t see us being as supportive as before anymore when it comes to dungeons/fractals (just look at the pathetic vulnerability-amount we can stack now).
And apart from a very glassy S/D spec, I had little to no success with crafting power-builds in general for PvP. It seems like we lost a great deal of our hybrid-builds, last, but not least because of the cele nerf in general and the altered condi-formulas.
Rampage still can work, but – again – results in very glassy one-trick ponies. It feels way harder now to stall 1v2’s with defensive specs. And with the nerf to bleed in general, it feels like FT is now not only viable, but required for successful condi-builds because of the toolbelt.

This new balancing is odd, and I still need time to adapt.

Anyways, all I can recommend as of now is not to craft ascended gear of any type, since the nerf/bug-fix bat still will strike a couple of times, and not always on places that we can predict now.
As of now, WvW roaming is a dead horse for me, and I will give it time at least until the release of HoT before I start investing gold into my gear again.

2 things

First, totally agree on the vuln duration hit being annoying, that 30% condi duration was a key part of one of our stronger niches in vuln production. That said I do think we gained a lot in Damage and we do have a bit stronger might production, though not enough to take over might completely and still fall to Ele in Damage. But, overall I think we’re still solid in PVE with more options.

Second thing is crafting ascended, honestly, with the ascended swapping, yes I’d recommend being wary and being open or even expect to possibly swap it, but I wouldn’t hold off out of fear, just know you might end up wanting to change it out at the cost of your runes. I just made a Sinister sets, if they nerf burning in a way that I feel my PVE condi build ideas just can’t be justified anymore I’ll just swap it to a second set of Zerk and put it on my thief or even jus thave 2 fully decked out Engi’s

were in kinda a transition period atm… and we have the worst of both worlds in terms of condi duration, especially in pve. steel packed powders vuln duration was nerfed probably with HoT in mind because unshakable wont be a thing any more with the new break bars… so we got a kinda random nerf there AND we have less free condi duration AND unshakable is still a thing. itll prolly get better when HoT comes out, whenever that is.

and lemme tell ya, i have about 5 ascended sets + 1 exotic set across 3 engis and theres nothing quite like that kind of versatility. its really amazing to have so many options, yet i still wish i had a LOT more (mostly in terms of sigil and rune options).

Steel Packed Powder was always five seconds. It’s just the additional condition duration from Explosives made it appear longer in the tool tip, which is fine—because everyone else got hit with the same nerf.

We’re still by and far the best vulnerability stacker in the game, making us incredibly valuable in any boss fight that lasts longer than 10-15 seconds (like most fractals). Dungeon have always been a wash, but that content is so mindnumbingly easy that building only for the most optimal comp is kind of silly.

for some reason i thought it was 6 or 8 base, im not sure why

Naw it was always 5s, but with 30% that meant it was effectively 6.5.

I wouldn’t really put ourselves in the vuln stacking niche anymore though. While we still have probably the best sustained, it’s just so meaningless, especially now. Sure some fractals last longer than the dozen seconds or so, but of those most are phased such that it’s a series of spiking damage. In which a warrior/Ele combo can stagger their vuln bursts to exceed our output. We may still be able to burst out 20 vuln but it takes a few seconds and by the time we peak they’re starting to fall.

It’s nice for lesser groups that can’t burst the damage, and we still do offer sustained vuln at a higher level. It’s just we can’t even maintain half of a full set of stacks anymore and that’s with factoring in food.

It’s a hit I certainly feel. Luckily my groups often run with 2 engi’s just for funsies still the most fun profession to play with plenty of utility.

For me its not so much about engineers alone but the trait changes in general, especially the removal of the passive stats you got.

Earlier I could for example the old standard build of running rabid amulet with p/s and bomb kit feels to me unviable now due to the lack of vitality I now have making me die a lot easier then previously.
When you play pvp now there is essentially only one option of amulet if you want to run some sort of hybrid/flexible build and that is celestial and that hardly fits every build. Besides that you have to go full on glass cannon essentially since going heavy defense just means you will die a little bit slower without accomplishing much of anything.

Besides that it does feel like there are less builds. Not less viable builds but less builds over all. Sometime you just felt like running something wonky while knowing it wasn’t optimal and that option feels mostly gone now.

I wish I could disagree with the original poster in some kind of aspect, but in my favorite aspects of engineer, they have made them just about all suck. I like healing because it fixed the power issue with healing by upgrading power by amount of healing you had. That and healing bombs. Outside of that, you lost your ability to throw things onto walls that were important, like the rocket turret. And people still want to say this class works? Someone is confused.

What? I can’t hear anyone over the sound of my engineer actually doing well in dungeon and Fractal groups.

I love how everyone assumes I’m complaining about PvP only. I could care less about PvP, but since everyone is only addressing that…. MM Necros are OP right now, having 6 – 7 target bots following you around everywhere is insane, especially since Ranger spirits are no longer mobile and Engineer turrets have NEVER been mobile. And then there’s spirit weapon Guardians, again, follow around the player.

So, tell me again how AI builds aren’t viable???

As for winning or losing, Regardless of the build I play, I do pretty well 1v1 but since there is no 1v1 content, it’s, again, a moot point.

There is literally no build choice anymore. ANet has killed what was the most diverse class I think.

EVERYONE in spvp is taking TK + Elixer S and nearly everyone takes Alch.

The non-Alch traitlines are also poorly designed which leads to everyone picking the exact same set up in those lines.

Engineer is in a terrible spot right now. Both due to external meta pressure of broken Ele/Mes and internal lack of synergy and choice with Traits/Skills.

I’m really surprised by this thread. Engineer is actually the profession I had the most fun with post-patch along with mesmer, because both professions received a welcomed overhaul of their traits.

Alchemy is still our strongest line. But now, HGH is viable again, and that’s kind of a big deal. Inventions is finally good, and we’re not forced to take Invigorating Speed and Speedy Kits anymore. EG is amazing. FT is amazing. Grenades are still good. Pistol-pistol is back on a burning build. Elixir X is a strong choice for an Elite. Heck, even kittening Mortar is good now (but looks awful)! What build diversity are you complaining about?

The only thing the patch did, was throwing us out of the meta. But we’ve been out of it most of the time since 2012, so we can deal with it.

I really only had three builds on my engineer, my pistol build, my bomb build, and my flamethrower build. Can’t even use bombs for anything in the entire game, pistols don’t even have anything to build for anymore, and flamethrower is still good, but my particular build for it is gone.

And I’m no doomsayer whose just written of the class in resistance of anything new, I’ve spent literally hours and hours of play over the last several weeks trying to find something I like playing that works, but there’s nothing left, I don’t even know what to do when I log in to my engineer anymore.

And the worst part, everyone told ANet they were removing builds, when they asked us to give feedback after the very first livestream where they were previewed the new system. And they completely, ignored, everything.

ANet made Engineer.
And nothing is ruined. They already said that they want to balance core professions before HoT.
Engi got a lot of rework, so it’s in a huge spotlight right now.

displacedTitan.6897:

There is literally no build choice anymore. ANet has killed what was the most diverse class I think.

EVERYONE in spvp is taking TK + Elixer S and nearly everyone takes Alch.

The non-Alch traitlines are also poorly designed which leads to everyone picking the exact same set up in those lines.

Engineer is in a terrible spot right now. Both due to external meta pressure of broken Ele/Mes and internal lack of synergy and choice with Traits/Skills.

To be honest, I doubt you have any idea what “everyone” is using, because my experience suggest your incorrect. You cannot assume what happens in your circle is what occurs across the board, and unreasonable hyperbole doesn’t really open up the discussion. I see alot of players trying different things tight now. I see alot of players using EG and not elixir S. I still see some slick shoes and rocket boot combo users as well.

Dreamwolf.7423:

Here is my thoughts/opinions: Anet is going to nerf Engineers into the ground until they finally remove them from the game.

If this would get some people off the game, that might not be such a bad idea…

Not in the worst spot not in the best. I think diversity is down but I am fine with where builds are ending up. Imho the TK + Alch has less to do with our diversity and more to do with how everyone is forced to burst or bust to a degree.

WOAH another QQ thread about something that has no problem, what a surprise

Well… What got killed
Like any turret build (thou turret were nerfed a bit earlier), bomb build, and healing builds (as new invention is quite bad for healing).
That quite diversity that is unviable, or outright killed.

Maybe there appeared some viable new traits, but in choose nowadays we are simply closed to DPS centric builds (and I always wanted healy / elixir stuff for my engi).

Phineas Poe.3018:

Stark.1350:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Stark.1350:

That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it, but it’s not fact.

It is, actually, given how ArenaNet handled both spirit rangers and turret engineers when they dominated in PvP.

Yeah? Then explain minionmancer necros, tiger. Who are very viable right now.

MM necros are no where near as strong as what turret engineers and spirit rangers were.

True, but theyre far stronger now than the current deplorable states of those builds.

Also the datamined suggest drones for the engineer elite spec which look a lot like what minions could be like hehehe.

nearlight.3064:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Stark.1350:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Stark.1350:

That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it, but it’s not fact.

It is, actually, given how ArenaNet handled both spirit rangers and turret engineers when they dominated in PvP.

Yeah? Then explain minionmancer necros, tiger. Who are very viable right now.

MM necros are no where near as strong as what turret engineers and spirit rangers were.

True, but theyre far stronger now than the current deplorable states of those builds.

Also the datamined suggest drones for the engineer elite spec which look a lot like what minions could be like hehehe.

God I hope that’s wrong. Since when have they balanced a minion type build well? It’s always either OP and a nerf on the way, or nerfed and left for dead.

I liked someone’s idea of like mobile buff bots, sorta mantra-ish but looking cooler. I would be very sad if we got minions that were OP for a month then nerfed and never touched again.

IDK about minions being bad or good for our elite-spec.
Usually I tend to not touch AI builds, due to the wonky-ness of them, but lets not forget that we also get hammer, and judging from the trailer, it will have a power and/or burning themed attack profile, while also coming with gap-closes.
Even if our new utility-skills turn out to be a let-down, we still have kits, and enough defensive traits to perform well in melee.

People were moaning about chronomancer – shield as well, before they revealed what awesomeness shield will actually bring to the table. I’d recommend to lean back and wait until we actually know what we’ll have to deal with, before we make assumptions…

Arantheal.7396:

Even if our new utility-skills turn out to be a let-down, we still have kits

If anything, they will be a let-down BECAUSE we have kits.
How do you expect anything to compete with them? People already consider them as the most important part of the class, even more than the actual class mechanic. They’re essentially forced upon, despite being, in theory at least, optional. All fine and well until we get new utilities. And they just end up unable to compete, thus essentially useless for the most part.
And it will be the same for any specialization we’ll ever get. We’re too much dependant on kits to have something that works without them.
Sure, they could throw a curve ball and give a couple new kits tied to the specialization along with the usual new utility type everyone gets. But i doubt they’ve thought to do something like that.

Aside from that, i hope they won’t have the awful idea of giving us minions. Especially after what they did to turrets.

Manuhell.2759:

How do you expect anything to compete with them? People already consider them as the most important part of the class, even more than the actual class mechanic. They’re essentially forced upon, despite being, in theory at least, optional. All fine and well until we get new utilities. And they just end up unable to compete, thus essentially useless for the most part.

This is kind of the case for every class. Virtues are the guardian class mechanic, but they’re no where near as powerful as consecrations and shouts. Steal is the thief class mechanic, but it’s no where near as powerful as stealth. Even in this thread you have people talking about minion builds being effective even though it’s probably the one build that least relies on necromancer’s profession mechanic, death shroud. And really let’s be serious: the thing that makes mesmers as broken as they are right now isn’t their shatter mechanic but their mantras.

Every class has one subset of skills that outperform the rest, and every class has a subset of skills that literally never get used. When have you ever seen a spirit weapon guardian in a PvP tournament? When have you ever seen a meditation guard record-clear a dungeon? When have you ever seen a physical-only warrior in anything?

Engineers don’t have it any better or worse than any class in the game. Kits and elixirs get the lion’s share of our focus, but gadgets are situationally useful—and Slick Shoes was once meta—and our best healing skill is a turret. Hell, our best elite still arguably is a package of turrets, too.

We really don’t have it as bad as you think. Forgoing kits would be the same as rolling a signet warrior. Classes are brought in PvE, PvP, and WvW for specific reasons: and if a mesmer isn’t willing to run glamour skills and reflect in a FOTM 50 run they can get the eff out of my party.

At the begining, engineers could do very cool stuff everywhere. Then, engineers had only few uses, at some places. Now we have no use anywhere.
We can abuse our build to do few things, but we definitly have no speciality, neither any versatility. This is how we became the most crap class of the whole game with no identity at all, and the main problem come from this.

We are not really verstatiles, we can but then we are weak in every roles, unlike elems who can be good in everthing. We have no def, we can’t endure damages like necro/war, we can’t avoid/block them like ranger/thief/guard. We have many choice for damages, but then this is all we can do, single target damages, aoe damages, conditions or directs damages, debuff effects (blind, root, snare, freeze, bump, …), very scattered with no real logic, just a lot of switch and CD abuse.

Phineas Poe.3018:

This is kind of the case for every class. Virtues are the guardian class mechanic, but they’re no where near as powerful as consecrations and shouts. Steal is the thief class mechanic, but it’s no where near as powerful as stealth. Even in this thread you have people talking about minion builds being effective even though it’s probably the one build that least relies on necromancer’s profession mechanic, death shroud. And really let’s be serious: the thing that makes mesmers as broken as they are right now isn’t their shatter mechanic but their mantras.

Every class has one subset of skills that outperform the rest, and every class has a subset of skills that literally never get used. When have you ever seen a spirit weapon guardian in a PvP tournament? When have you ever seen a meditation guard record-clear a dungeon? When have you ever seen a physical-only warrior in anything?

Engineers don’t have it any better or worse than any class in the game. Kits and elixirs get the lion’s share of our focus, but gadgets are situationally useful—and Slick Shoes was once meta—and our best healing skill is a turret. Hell, our best elite still arguably is a package of turrets, too.

We really don’t have it as bad as you think. Forgoing kits would be the same as rolling a signet warrior. Classes are brought in PvE, PvP, and WvW for specific reasons: and if a mesmer isn’t willing to run glamour skills and reflect in a FOTM 50 run they can get the eff out of my party.

I don’t think they are comparable. Those utilities of other classes that you mention could just need some rebalancing, and they would be done with it.
Kits supposedly have a more profound impact on the class design itself – at least enough to make devs decide, somewhere in development, to not give weapon swap and just make the class dependent on them. How can you rebalance the other utilities to ever be on par, or just seen as viable alternatives, when the whole class is supposedly based upon them? We can’t just say “buff the other utilities and give them low enough cooldowns” as that would make them have effects too strong for single skills (and people already whine enough for Slick Shoes, to make an example) and neither they can have the same range of uses of multiple different skills (as they’re single skills). The only way they’ve done it so far is to make them do things that kit don’t do, and even then they struggle getting some use.

We’re far too reliant on kits – and they’re already given by the base class – and not enough reliant on base weapons.
So what do we have to gain from an elite spec? A new weapon that won’t see much use? Utilities that can’t compete with kits by design? A new mechanic, maybe, but it depends on what they do exactly.
As i said above, unless they give some kits with every elite spec, i doubt they’ll see some widespread use.

NineLives.8725:

At the begining, engineers could do very cool stuff everywhere. Then, engineers had only few uses, at some places. Now we have no use anywhere.
We can abuse our build to do few things, but we definitly have no speciality, neither any versatility. This is how we became the most crap class of the whole game with no identity at all, and the main problem come from this.

We are not really verstatiles, we can but then we are weak in every roles, unlike elems who can be good in everthing. We have no def, we can’t endure damages like necro/war, we can’t avoid/block them like ranger/thief/guard. We have many choice for damages, but then this is all we can do, single target damages, aoe damages, conditions or directs damages, debuff effects (blind, root, snare, freeze, bump, …), very scattered with no real logic, just a lot of switch and CD abuse.

If you think engineer is “crap” then you aren’t playing it right. What we lost in versatility was mostly turrets and some CD reduction. Basically a bit of DPS. I see Engis pulling off cool things every day.

We are likely the most identifiable class in the game. We are the jack of all trades class and have been for a long time. While the scenario and strength of the class may change the role has not. We do a bit of everything. Literally we are a bag of different tools.

Sd is burst, you can also do it condi. We can bunker ‘ok’. We have one of the best blocks in the game. We have access to invul and stealth (something we did not have consistently in the good ole days).

Yes we have lots of different types of damage, cc, defense, healing (though they nerfed bombs and that would be nice to have back), and what you call, “very scattered with no real logic, just a lot of switch and CD abuse.” has spawned the most complex and diverse builds this game has period. We took a bunch of different skills and made logical builds with them. While most classes have cut a dry this is your rotation we (for the most part) still have to make build that work based on an a assortment of tools. What is our reward for this. Most versatility than an ele. Ele while being the jack of all trades “king” with DD is range locked. In reality PvE is usually Air→ Earth → Fire and more fire unless ice bow is up or some one is getting killed then water and back fire.

I can understand the anger but there is a difference between that and pure nonsense. Stop pointing the finger at other classes and get better at this one or just learn to enjoy it.

Complex and diverse builds? I would say most complex rotations. Engies are jacks of all trades, but master of none, and still it usually require heavy trait/utility switching (to fill specific niche) and by this your damage will go way down.

Yes other classes also depend heavily on their none class mechanic. But only engineer is doing it to deal respectable – to high dmg (depending on number kits equipped). There is no resonable build that don’t runs any kit.

Sometimes I think that 10s global CD on every kit would be healthy. It could possibly in PvE make stuff viable other than 3 utility – kits only. Of course as long as they make using main weapons (for more than 2 seconds) viable.

kitten off with the 10s cooldown idea. All that would do is remove the only decent option we have not strengthen any other option to make us good. We’d become necro status, so fun…

The thing I love about this profession is the fast crazy rotations, it’s fun as hell. On top of that I enjoy the wide variety of tweaks to pick up various other tools.

That all said my hope for Hammer and the Elite specialization is to bring in that stand alone weapon, something solid enough to pick up the slack that running gadgets/elixirs/turrets leaves. Basically another style of play. Also wish pistol1 could compete with nade spam for condi’s or at least somewhere in that ballpark.

NiBlack.3149:

Complex and diverse builds? I would say most complex rotations. Engies are jacks of all trades, but master of none, and still it usually require heavy trait/utility switching (to fill specific niche) and by this your damage will go way down.

Yes other classes also depend heavily on their none class mechanic. But only engineer is doing it to deal respectable – to high dmg (depending on number kits equipped). There is no resonable build that don’t runs any kit.

Sometimes I think that 10s global CD on every kit would be healthy. It could possibly in PvE make stuff viable other than 3 utility – kits only. Of course as long as they make using main weapons (for more than 2 seconds) viable.

You are right most engis rely on kits. It can’t be helped all classes have this same issue. Some utility skills just shine more than others (look at cantrips for ele).

The class was built around kits. Why is that an issue. So many classes have traits and utility lines that are as useless as out Turrets. I think Anet should fix this but why punish the most inventive game play for it? Stop being so salty. So what if kits are top tier. I and many others came for the kits.

I used to main ele nearly 3 years ago and i would literally fall asleep at the keyboard because the rotations were that boring. If they did that to engi what would we play?

10 second cd lol. Please do not give them terrible idea. You realize that some of us keep track of cds for 4 kits simultaneously. 4 KITS! it is the hardest and most challenging gameplay there is. Why would anyone want to rune that? So what if I use rifle for a mere 3 seconds I am still keeping track of my jumpshot and blunderbuss in the back of my head because it is still important to use them. I get the “stand alone” crowd but not everyone one likes sitting there watching cds cool down auto attacking thinking, “kitten I am so good at this game”.

BTW having to sacrifice one trait in order to get another to be better at say support with a cost to your dps is called a trade off. And trade offs are a great thing. More classes should be subjected to them.

Every other class plays the same this is the only one that plays differently why mess that up?

Some people seems to not understand what does versatility means. If you need to rebuild between roles this is not versatility, if you are crap in every roles this is not versatility, if you just can do the unique same thing in many different ways this is still not versatility.

“If you think engineer is “crap” then you aren’t playing it right”

lol

“What we lost in versatility was mostly turrets and some CD reduction. Basically a bit of DPS.”

lol

NineLives.8725:

Some people seems to not understand what does versatility means. If you need to rebuild between roles this is not versatility, if you are crap in every roles this is not versatility, if you just can do the unique same thing in many different ways this is still not versatility.

“If you think engineer is “crap” then you aren’t playing it right”

lol

“What we lost in versatility was mostly turrets and some CD reduction. Basically a bit of DPS.”

lol

“lol” (why do people do this like it proves a point or means anything?) is not a response.

Versatility is simply being able to do many things at once. Most engineers do this by default. We have the capability to remove conditions, rez and stomp without interruption, stealth the party, and pass around healing, we can even give boons to a limited extent. Can other classes perform some of these roles more competently? Of course because that is all they can do. It really isn’t that complex. You can add to support but you may not be the guardian at the same time your doing things (especially in pvp) that the guardian can’t.

This is GW2 you have 2 roles in PvE DPS and DPS who use support skills. That is it. If you have extremely limited support (like ranger for example) you are straight DPS if you have some support skills (like ourselves Warriors Guardians etc.) you are DPS with support skills. Players tend to value guardians more because they make runs visibly easier. We however, STILL add to support when played well and do the same.

When I said, “If you think engineer is “crap” then you aren’t playing it right”, i meant it literally. We have access to more tools than another other class. If you can’t see builds in this environment that work for you than you lack imagination and shouldn’t be playing engineer in the first place.

If you are crap in every role than that is more likely a you problem than a class problem.

TLDR
You can “lol” all day long and act like you are making a point but, you are really just having a pity party while most of us are adapting. Get it together you are an engineer, or are you?

Oh I made you angry ? Poor little tiny thing. Btw, you should not make joke if you don’t want that people laught about you.
lol, Definitly.

displacedTitan.6897:

There is literally no build choice anymore. ANet has killed what was the most diverse class I think.

EVERYONE in spvp is taking TK + Elixer S and nearly everyone takes Alch.

The non-Alch traitlines are also poorly designed which leads to everyone picking the exact same set up in those lines.

Engineer is in a terrible spot right now. Both due to external meta pressure of broken Ele/Mes and internal lack of synergy and choice with Traits/Skills.

This.

Nieguen.6235:

displacedTitan.6897:

There is literally no build choice anymore. ANet has killed what was the most diverse class I think.

EVERYONE in spvp is taking TK + Elixer S and nearly everyone takes Alch.

The non-Alch traitlines are also poorly designed which leads to everyone picking the exact same set up in those lines.

Engineer is in a terrible spot right now. Both due to external meta pressure of broken Ele/Mes and internal lack of synergy and choice with Traits/Skills.

This.

Wat?

I mean, what you’re saying is true (except that some engi replace Elixir S with EG, and on rabid FT build, you don’t need TK), but engi was ALWAYS forced to take TK, and ALWAYS forced to spec into Alchemy. Our super strong celestial meta build is dead, but who cares? We’re not meta anymore, but we have plenty of builds that are kinda viable. That’s better than one strong build if you ask me.

NineLives.8725:

Oh I made you angry ? Poor little tiny thing. Btw, you should not make joke if you don’t want that people laught about you.
lol, Definitly.

No, not really. I do not devote energy to that. It is just a a waste imho. I get the, “let me devolve this into name calling!”, thing and the, “I really need to win this argument with a random strangers on the internet!”, logic but I am a grown man and do not have time for that kitten. If you didn’t like what I said, fine. Who cares? You can “lol”, make jokes, and toss insults like, “Poor little tiny thing” (….really). If that makes you feel good then do you. As far as I am concerned if its not about the topic then there isn’t anything to discuss. You can get a last word in I know that is important for many people like you but I won’t bother reading.

Oh man, you are so right, as always, you obviously say the truth, you are so clever !

(this is the only way to deal with narsissistic people, give them the victory very fast, no point to discuss anything with them because they are CRAZY)

Btt :

In my opinion the cap between Meta/op/cherry-picked builds and the others is to big. Before the 23rd it was possible to play with 0 in alchy and without tk (not the best, but somehow viable).

Now I feel forced into specific lines and traits and I tested a lot of stuff the last weeks. Not picking alchy feels like death sentence in pvp nowadays.

Someone might say, just take the meta. But as long as we have a choice in theory, I just want to have it in praxis aswell!

Someone might say, thats normal after such a big balance patch. True. But waiting a month for rebalancing is not that nice.

I also think, the whole situation is not only engi-related.

Just my personal view.

Dreamwolf.7423:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Dreamwolf.7423:

I don’t like kits, elixirs, and all the other things that take my weapon skills away.

You really can’t complain that ArenaNet is limiting your options when you’re really just limiting yourself.

I’m not limiting myself, I’m playing the way I want to play, which is how the game was advertised, which was the main draw for me. Now, unless I spam grenades or bombs or elixirs or flamethrower, I can’t play my engineer because I get destroyed by the OP kit/bundle set. I don’t see how playing with options that were made available is limiting myself. I’m supposed to be able to PLAY HOW I WANT, not how Anet dictates it.

Well, true to a extent, not it isnt “advertised” each proffession has its own second Resource, the Second Resource is pretty required to play properly, Engineers is Kits, to play a proffession without its core mechanic is ridiculous it wont ever work if 1 proffession suited everything they’d only need 1 proffession for everyone, different playstyles, If u hate the Engineers Core mechanic your never going to get along with it.

We lost rifle and grenade range. Look at another classes – warior, ele, mesm, petman – they all have 1200 range.
We lost bomb radius…and bomb build not good now with Short Fuse location.
What they gave us?
Mortar kit – you can use it in a zerg but not 1vs1 or if you will find a lame idiot.
Thermobaric Detonation not work with smoke bomb in melee.
Aim assisted rocket – when a foe ran from me I saw that rocket flew zigzag for him about 2.5 sec but in the end lost the target and flew on the left.
High Caliber – good thing in close battle – now we can use less precision trinkets.
Stimulant and Bunker down – good thing but it drop in front of you and it is not always convenient.
AMR – 10 sec cooldown was stupid, 90 – idiotism.
We are more then not meta now, we are suck. Before the patch I usually was in top 3 in PvP no matter – turret, celectial or condition build I played and I used to feel myself good in WWW no matter who fighted against me – I just knew that I had a chance vs another classes. Now if I see ele or mesm I prefer not to fight, because Arena forget about balance.
Sorry for my English and emotions ^)

LucasCorso.3651:

We are more then not meta now, we are suck. Before the patch I usually was in top 3 in PvP no matter – turret, celectial or condition build I played and I used to feel myself good in WWW no matter who fighted against me – I just knew that I had a chance vs another classes. Now if I see ele or mesm I prefer not to fight, because Arena forget about balance.
Sorry for my English and emotions ^)

How do you know you’re not in the top 3? By the way, I don’t think I’ve EVER seen you in the top of the Leaderboards, but it could be on another account or my memory might be bad?

Anyway, we’re not meta anymore, so what? Some of our builds are still decently effective, and playing engineer feels less like shikittenmi: prior to the patch, I could 1v2 thieves or guardian, but the most noobish necro could kill me. The added condi clear on the Alchemy traitline really helps our survivability. The new HGH is glorious. Experiment with new stuff. There’s no point crying over the lost of our celestial engineer. Personally, I’m glad I get to play something a bit different.

Sorel.4870:

LucasCorso.3651:

We are more then not meta now, we are suck. Before the patch I usually was in top 3 in PvP no matter – turret, celectial or condition build I played and I used to feel myself good in WWW no matter who fighted against me – I just knew that I had a chance vs another classes. Now if I see ele or mesm I prefer not to fight, because Arena forget about balance.
Sorry for my English and emotions ^)

How do you know you’re not in the top 3? By the way, I don’t think I’ve EVER seen you in the top of the Leaderboards, but it could be on another account or my memory might be bad?

Anyway, we’re not meta anymore, so what? Some of our builds are still decently effective, and playing engineer feels less like shikittenmi: prior to the patch, I could 1v2 thieves or guardian, but the most noobish necro could kill me. The added condi clear on the Alchemy traitline really helps our survivability. The new HGH is glorious. Experiment with new stuff. There’s no point crying over the lost of our celestial engineer. Personally, I’m glad I get to play something a bit different.

I think he might mean the in match boards.

I think we are not exactly in the worst spot. I am still doing with a celestial alchemy build. I think our diversity in builds is down but everyone is pretty much in the same spot with the new changes. Mesmer and Ele can not be the stick we measure our effectiveness by. They are just too strong in the current meta.

the other thing i noticed is that players are much more about trends than anything else. Almost every engi I see now is rifle. I switched to PP yesterday in WvW for a difference and was roaming just fine. I think there are some builds out there no one is exploring or experimenting with simply because players have gotten used to going to forums or meta battle, getting a build, and running with it.

There are about three different builds that I see in PvP at the moment.

1. HGH burst build
2. FT burning burst
3. Cleric Bunker/Modified regen/lyssa condi clear

The first uses rifle, second uses p/p, third normally uses p/s for defense.

So you have full damage burst, condi burst, or healing/condi clear bunker. The problem is that mesmers do the burst better, necro’s/guards are better burning or condi burst, and elementalist is the better bunker.

We’re not bad, we just aren’t the best. So Engi is far from dead. It can be played but you have to realize what role you want to play.

Sorel.4870:

LucasCorso.3651:

We are more then not meta now, we are suck. Before the patch I usually was in top 3 in PvP no matter – turret, celectial or condition build I played and I used to feel myself good in WWW no matter who fighted against me – I just knew that I had a chance vs another classes. Now if I see ele or mesm I prefer not to fight, because Arena forget about balance.
Sorry for my English and emotions ^)

How do you know you’re not in the top 3? By the way, I don’t think I’ve EVER seen you in the top of the Leaderboards, but it could be on another account or my memory might be bad?

Anyway, we’re not meta anymore, so what? Some of our builds are still decently effective, and playing engineer feels less like shikittenmi: prior to the patch, I could 1v2 thieves or guardian, but the most noobish necro could kill me. The added condi clear on the Alchemy traitline really helps our survivability. The new HGH is glorious. Experiment with new stuff. There’s no point crying over the lost of our celestial engineer. Personally, I’m glad I get to play something a bit different.

I told about match.
“we’re not meta anymore, so what?” – emmm…if you are really not used to be among the best – ok, its not a problem for you.
“They added condi clear on the Alchemy traitline really helps our survivability” – i am agree with you on 100%
“There’s no point crying over the lost of our celestial engineer” – i never wroute about this problem.
I just try to understand why they cut our useful spectraits and gave us something is not quite playable.

Good news – Arena increased rifle range – i hope this is beginning …

LucasCorso.3651:

Good news – Arena increased rifle range – i hope this is beginning …

I doubt it. The best we could do is to compile a list of all engineer bugs and items missed with the recent trait changes. Then when the developers google gw2 balance to make their changes, they might find our thread, and make some good changes. Otherwise, they might google engineer balance and find an old thread about turrets, and nerf them further.

Still no bombs AoE increase. Currently they have less radius than ranger torch 5, and lets be frank it is not exactly the most complex change…

im pretty sure bombs are supposed to work in reverse of standard melee… essentially your attacking backwards rather than forwards when moving around, very strong when running, terrible at chasing.

however there is a major flaw with the bomb kit trait, that 0.5 detonation only makes bombs slightly better at close up brawling with another melee while making them weaker at running with… perhaps an unforseen “negative” in a trait…

Stalima.5490:

im pretty sure bombs are supposed to work in reverse of standard melee… essentially your attacking backwards rather than forwards when moving around, very strong when running, terrible at chasing.

however there is a major flaw with the bomb kit trait, that 0.5 detonation only makes bombs slightly better at close up brawling with another melee while making them weaker at running with… perhaps an unforseen “negative” in a trait…

It’s definitely a trade-off, but I (when I run explosives, which I currently do not) always pick the “deal more damage to foes with vuln” trait. Seems like a no-brainer for me seeing as how common that condition is now.