Guild Wars 2

I’ve been a fan of pistol/pistol condition builds for a long time, but right now the build feels so subpar, but way too glassy. I lose most of my 1v1s against good players, necros are an instant loss, anything with sustain is a downhill battle, and my burn damage feels low compared to guardians right now.

Has anyone had success with a condi build in spvp? I don’t play wvw, but feel free to comment on that too.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqalUUh+sYJXwdLw6FLsFVYKuivGYIWiBg4GVFzIA-TJhHABlt/AAPAAjKDA8JAAA

I had never been able to give up the shield before, but I feel that some of the new traits in Alch/Inv allow us to be quite sturdy all on their own. I’ve done some ranked/unranked with this build and it works pretty well. It’s fairly straight forward but I can do a little write up of how I’ve found it to be most effective if you’d like.

Sigils/Runes/Amulet are of flexible. I’ve tried Rabid with it but I think Celestial is a bit better, they both have their pros and cons. Obviously there are a few different rune/sigil choices that can be made for your standard condi build and I think those are all valid. I rotate through different choices to see what works this is just what I’m currently on.

Yes, I have. Paired with the Tool Kit, Pry Bar and Blowtorch can really ruin someone’s day. Your other utilities should be based around the team comp.

If you want to go with additional kits, until they fix the Bomb Kit radius, I would stick to Flamethrower or Grenade Kit with Tool Kit. I also think people greatly underestimate the Mortar Kit as an elite option. Even without Siege Rounds a four second blind field and water field is pretty huge for survivability. With so many burn guards running GS you can get them to whirl cleanse condition bursts if you communicate with them.

It also extends well to team fighting and maintains AoE pressure at long ranges better than the Grenade Kit currently does and a wider effect radius than the Bomb Kit currently does. Paired with the Flamethrower, it’s especially nice to have so many accessible fields to utilize with Flame Blast. It may not do that much damage but some us better than none.

Any condition build is going to obviously be countered by the usual suspects: guardians, elementalists, and necromancers. But you should handle yourself pretty well against most others.

I will say in mesmer/thief heavy teams I will usually opt for the offhand shield. IP offers enough burning damage without Blowtorch, and Static Shield leads nicely into Pry Bar.

The Elixir Gun is also not a bad choice. It pairs well with HGH and is effective at maintaining weakness against bursters when Blowtorch and Pry Bar are on cool down.

Engineers right now get crucified in melee range. Stick to the periphery of team fights, use Toss Elixir S with Kinetic Charge, and remember that condition builds are best built for sustain and not burst.

I will add that I’ve had the most success running Carrion with Intelligence/Energy than any other combo. Rabid just doesn’t have enough HP, and Celestial burn ticks are ticklish. And since Pry Bar scales so well with power, and Intelligence proc hits pretty well.

Typing from my phone so apologies for any typos.

Thanks for the responses Adamantium and Phineas. I will try those out. I had been running with bomb kit and flamethrower to try to pump out as much burn as possible, but it has felt paltry in comparison to what burn guardians do just in their opener.

Could you guys tell me what your rotation tends to be in fights to keep up the damage? I feel like there’s always so many buttons to click for condi and I never know what’s worthwhile and what’s not worthwhile to use.

You guys ever use pistol 1 for bleeds or is that subpar for you?

Interesting that the two responses so far seem to be in pretty different places. I suggest you try both. My build is by no means set in stone I’m always looking for ways to improve it so a different perspective is helpful.

Phineas Poe.3018:

IP offers enough burning damage without Blowtorch…

… Celestial burn ticks are ticklish…

Maybe your Celestial burns are ticklish because you think you have “enough” burning damage without using our best burning skill. I think as a general rule if you’re going for a condi build there’s no such thing as “enough” burning especially as it currently scales. It looks like you’re a little more hybrid though which I get.

Carrion is another decent choice of course. I like Rabid more than Carrion because you can get more condi through Pinpoint Distribution but there are a couple good choices for condi builds I think. I would like to see more condi amulets though, as for my build neither Rabid or Celestial is ideal they both have pros/cons. It’s something ridiculous like 3 condi amulets vs 10 power amulets.

Bombs will be incredible when they buff its radius back to 240. 180 is just too small, and good players know how to avoid them. It’s still viable. It’s just not ideal right now IMO.

The Flamethrower works. It works pretty well actually with Carrion+Intelligence. Blowtorch→Pry Bar→Flame Blast is a good burst combo, since both Pry Bar and Flame Blast scale REALLY well with power. When mesmer shatter and guard burns get toned down I could see Rampager builds being really strong with FT/TK combo.

But as I said, I generally opt for the Elixir Gun if I take a second kit. As I said I tend to stick to team fights with this build, so weakness on Tranquilizer Dart helps mitigate Lich/Rampage damage and mesmers/thieves as well.

I do not use Explosive Shot. I spam PDV and Static on cooldown, reserving Blowtorch and Pry Bar for when I’m pressured. I spend most of my time in the Elixir Gun and Mortar Kit.

Adamantium.3682:

Interesting that the two responses so far seem to be in pretty different places. I suggest you try both. My build is by no means set in stone I’m always looking for ways to improve it so a different perspective is helpful.

Phineas Poe.3018:

IP offers enough burning damage without Blowtorch…

… Celestial burn ticks are ticklish…

Maybe your Celestial burns are ticklish because you think you have “enough” burning damage without using our best burning skill. I think as a general rule if you’re going for a condi build there’s no such thing as “enough” burning especially as it currently scales. It looks like you’re a little more hybrid though which I get.

Carrion is another decent choice of course. I like Rabid more than Carrion because you can get more condi through Pinpoint Distribution but there are a couple good choices for condi builds I think. I would like to see more condi amulets though, as for my build neither Rabid or Celestial is ideal they both have pros/cons. It’s something ridiculous like 3 condi amulets vs 10 power amulets.

They really need a Marauder equivalent for conditions. That would be ideal.

with cele the adamantium’s build seems quite strong becouse it has good direct damage and good condi damage (1500,1000) … but i did not find a viable condi build with rabid becouse it seemed to me too weak. The only “viable”… thing is hgh with mortar … but mortar is a little slow to land for 1 vs 1 …

PierPiero.9142:

with cele the adamantium’s build seems quite strong becouse it has good direct damage and good condi damage (1500,1000) … but i did not find a viable condi build with rabid becouse it seemed to me too weak. The only “viable”… thing is hgh with mortar … but mortar is a little slow to land for 1 vs 1 …

Rabid works in that build, you’ll get over 1700 condition damage and just switch runes to Undead or Balth. You may want to also switch to Mortar but the Crate is a pretty big part of why that build is so hard to kill. Side note am I the only one that noticed they cut a full minute off the cooldown for Crate? If they want to make use other elites maybe stop buffing the best one in the game? Lol…

I think the reason why I prefer Celestial is because some of the traits you are sort of forced into in that build do nothing for pure condi builds. Like you said with Cele at least there’s decent direct damage that can make use of some of those traits.

100% agreed on Rabid. It’s just rough having baseline power in your build when guardians, elementalists, and necromancers are so popular right now; I literally don’t think it’s viable, because it also forces you to have baseline vitality. A Rabid engineer just doesn’t stand a chance against a Fire/Water/Arcana elementalist or a condition guardian or necromancer … and those builds are so popular right now.

i have tried many many combinations based on rabid becouse i really love pistol pistol gameplay but i had really great problem to find one who is working. The best i could do was hgh with eg , el S el B, mortar and el h …full condi . It works but it is far from celestial rifle build . The really great problem , for me now, is that with rabid now you have a really really low vitality and no healing power … so it is really hard to arrive at the end of a fight. My impression is that now we have only celestial builds viable . And celestial eng , in my opinion can be really really strong combining inventions with alchemy for getting fury from medkit and using firearms. I think, i will not use granadeer in any case.

Adamantium.3682:

Maybe your Celestial burns are ticklish because you think you have “enough” burning damage without using our best burning skill.

The new formula for burning is 131.5+15.5% per stack.

With Celestial+Pinpoint+Balthazar you get 891 condition damage; that’s 269.6 per stack. With Carrion+Balthazar it’s 1375 condition damage, or 344.6 per stack. That’s a difference of 75 damage per stack. Or more contextually, Blowtorch+IP will tick for 1723 at maximum strength with Carrion and 1348 with Celestial. That may not seem like a lot to you, but a 20% damage loss is noticeable. I call it ticklish, but really I was just making a joke at how lackluster Celestial is these days.

And you see, with Intelligence, it doesn’t really get better for Celestial when matched up with Carrion.

In Celestial, Pry Bar hits for 1337 (2380) damage on a light golem, 1236 (2225) on a medium golem, and 1066 (1980) on a heavy golem.

In Carrion, Pry Bar hits for 1554 (2504) damage on a light golem, 1481 (2314) on a medium golem, and 1341 (2122) on a heavy golem.

That’s a 217 (13%) damage difference on light, 245 (16%) on medium, and 275 (20%) on heavy for non-crit values. So not only does Carrion deal more condition damage than Celestial, it also deals more direct damage—both criticals and normal—than Celestial does.

Now you’re probably saying: OK. So what? Celestial crits more often, so your direct damage is in the end more reliably applied. This is true. But this is where other traits come into the equation. Because you get zero use out of Pinpoint Distribution, No Scope is the next best thing. And because both Intelligence and No Scope share a similar internal cooldown, you will see fairly good consistency out of the trait. And it, alongside High Caliber and Hematic Focus mean you’re elevating your crit chance to 40% nearly 50% of the time provided you’re within 240 radius of your target—which Flame Blast, Pry Bar, and Grenade Barrage all are best used from.

What really makes all of this integral is the fact that both Explosive Shot and Tranquilizer Dart stack bleeding. Tranquilizer Dart’s bleed stack lasts 5 seconds, giving you plenty of time to root someone into an Acid Bomb and go to town. This will become substantially easier (and stronger) after Glue Bomb gets its 300 radius back.

It’s funny because for so long I tried to keep Elixir S into my build because I thought that it would help me out, but Tranquilizer Dart—literally the worst kit auto attack we have—is the hinging ability that keeps this unorthodox spec duct taped together. And I’ve found that I don’t really need it for survivability because Carrion + Firearms applies so much direct damage pressure so long as you maintain bleeds on your target and stroll in at the right time for a targeted spike.

In the end, Celestial, too, benefits from High Caliber and Hematic Focus, and I see you’ve taken Stimulant Supplier for Fury access, but I hope you understand that the situation is really quite muddled between these two amulets, and I do think as far as burst physical damage is concerned, which is all the Tool Kit ever really offered for Celestial builds, Carrion is superior.

This is why despite the fact that I’ve got only baseline 20% crit chance from 240 range it makes sense to utilize traits like Bunker Down.

It’s a build that makes little sense, that at first glance would appear weaker than Celestial or Rabid variants … and yet I’ve just had significantly more success with this build than anything else I’ve tried. Rabid’s baseline vitality just isn’t good for us with our mediocre to bad condition removal and Celestial Pry Bars slap like a wet fish.

I cannot advocate that this is a meta spec, but it’s something I’ve found very effective in general structured PvP. And with Mortar Kit and Elixir Gun you’re still there to provide support as needed, so it’s not a one-trick pony build like the spec I posted earlier this week.

That said, I’m still jumping between both amulets before I decide what’s best. I just think Carrion is a lot better than many give credit.

Phineas Poe.3018:

What really makes all of this integral is the fact that both Explosive Shot and Tranquilizer Dart stack bleeding. Tranquilizer Dart’s bleed stack lasts 5 seconds, giving you plenty of time to root someone into an Acid Bomb and go to town. This will become substantially easier (and stronger) after Glue Bomb gets its 300 radius back.

It’s funny because for so long I tried to keep Elixir S into my build because I thought that it would help me out, but Tranquilizer Dart—literally the worst kit auto attack we have—is the hinging ability that keeps this unorthodox spec duct taped together. And I’ve found that I don’t really need it for survivability because Carrion + Firearms applies so much direct damage pressure so long as you maintain bleeds on your target and stroll in at the right time for a targeted spike.

EG was always underrated. I was using acid bomb in wvw, and pve LOOONG before anyone else noticed it did so much damage, if the target was stuck in place.
EG1 itself, as you note, totally outclasses frag shot.
Always did. EG was effectively a rifle variant. 1200 range.. the bleed was longer then frag shot, the debuffs, etc.
Always hated fumigate, but now with the cond buff. it might not be too bad..

was thinking about this for the pve dps build. FTurret is used almost entirely for throw napalm, on a 21s cd. FT for napalm, on 30s cd, and airblast. IA is weak. the rest not useable.
EG might be a better choice in one of those slots. Provides the best cond based autoattack.

I need to try Carrion some more it sounds like. I don’t have any question it would do more damage, but I wonder about the survive ability. I could put on offhand shield, but I was trying to be different!

Celestial definitely has the edge in survivability, and can definitely sustain against pressure better with pistol/pistol in burst-heavy team comps.

I didn’t mean to suggest that I don’t run off-hand pistol with Carrion, though. I’ll record some of my matches tonight and re-watch to see if it’s just in my head.

I’ve been running rabid in spvp.

I would not categorize it as super effective. I either burst my target down with alot of heavy cond quickly, or I get bursted down quickly. Very much all or nothing. no close fights.
If I am not being attacked, I wreck face though.
Not remotely as well rounded as the SD build I was running prepatch.

Cond inherently favors a balanced defense. steady pressure of condition damage over that burst.

There is another thread with I posted on discusing a P/P elixer build. In my opinion it is the best route for a P/P condi build due to the fact the P/P is so aggressive and elixer just buff that while kits work for more ulity and balance.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Rate-and-Help-my-P-P-Spvp-build/first#post5245870

rabid p/p with forge runes (goes great with prot inj) and ft, tk, elix s. Having a lot fun.

I just tried a p/p turret rabid build and it was actually quite decent. I am used to my well bunker necro and this is the first time I played engineer in like… 3 months or something, lol.

But really, its OP burning that make it decent.

You’ll need FT & Bomb Kit for the extra burning damage.

Remember reaching 4 ticks at 5k damage with them.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqanUIClYhlcB2XB0ehF2iKMFvoXD8DLxAQsjqinA-TJxHwAm2f4YZAxnAAAPAAA