Guild Wars 2

I couldn’t resist summarizing this patch in a dank way.

Next patch i recommend using utility goggles before making changes. ^^

https://imgur.com/a/g6tGY

miriforst.1290:

I couldn’t resist summarizing this patch in a dank way.

Next patch i recommend using utility goggles before making changes. ^^

https://imgur.com/a/g6tGY

true and sad at the same time

miriforst.1290:

I couldn’t resist summarizing this patch in a dank way.

Next patch i recommend using utility goggles before making changes. ^^

https://imgur.com/a/g6tGY

This is art.

You know what’s even more of a joke, the fact that this is what 3 month’s of balancing gives us. These could have easily been done in 1 month’s time, at least that would have given them an excuse.

Lyger.5429:

You know what’s even more of a joke, the fact that this is what 3 month’s of balancing gives us. These could have easily been done in 1 month’s time, at least that would have given them an excuse.

A lot of those changes look like they were made few hours before actual patch.

Samug.6512:

Lyger.5429:

You know what’s even more of a joke, the fact that this is what 3 month’s of balancing gives us. These could have easily been done in 1 month’s time, at least that would have given them an excuse.

A lot of those changes look like they were made few hours before actual patch.

aint that how all of engineer’s changes have happened for the past 3 years though ?
remember when they were announcing skill and trait rework engi had everything in the TBD/A? stage until the very last what 2 weeks?

engi’s changes dint even make it to the beta

clearly devs arent even looking or testing engi changes anymore

I explain why this gear shield nerf is unnecassary. (Just pvp and wvw perspective)
At first, gear shield, tool kit and tools trait line are even not the scrapper meta in pvp. Scrapper meta build is invention, alchemy and scrapper.
Gear shield, tool kit and tools trait line are mostly used by base engis, and to have a 3 sec block on a 13 sec CD is absolutely necassary for the base engi due to the lack of stability an other skills which avoid damage.
This nerf is a hit in the face for every base engi who enjoys to play old school builds without scrapper or hammer.
I don’t know why you nerf one of the most important defense skill for base engis, just why?
Every patch you want to nerf the scrapper, the result is that the base engi is even more hurt and restrict build diversity more and more.
Remeber the heal turret cast time increase?
Remember the HGH duration nerf?
Remeber the increased CD of automated medical response?
Remember the nerf for elixier S procc at 25%?
Remember the bunker down nerf (regeneration removed)?
- Yes, i do. And all this nerfs are hurting base engi more as the scrapper, and making base engi even more unviable.
And the worst part of this is that anet even don’t explain us why they decided to give us this nerf.

Rezzet.3614:

Samug.6512:

Lyger.5429:

You know what’s even more of a joke, the fact that this is what 3 month’s of balancing gives us. These could have easily been done in 1 month’s time, at least that would have given them an excuse.

A lot of those changes look like they were made few hours before actual patch.

aint that how all of engineer’s changes have happened for the past 3 years though ?
remember when they were announcing skill and trait rework engi had everything in the TBD/A? stage until the very last what 2 weeks?

engi’s changes dint even make it to the beta

clearly devs arent even looking or testing engi changes anymore

Yep, since long before HoT Engineer was going downhill. We get tested last and are clearly the lowest on their radar for fixes or reworks. We have so many traits and utilities that are downright useless (turrets, impact savant).
The we have our primary weapons, of which we get one, being next to useless. Seriously MH pistol, Rifle and Shield are embarrassing, rifle has a self-knockdown, name a HoT wep with that kind of drawback.

ANet really needs to find a dev who loves Engi and get them on the skills team to really advocate for engi changes. The ones this patch were done in ten minutes right before release, just like all engi changes.

The self knockdown on rifle used to be fair. It was a high risk, high reward skill. Plus, it had occasional use to break immob or reposition out of aoe.

In the old days, you could expect Overcharged Shot to land almost every time. A fight was a chess match with you and your opponent trading CCs Now, you’re very very lucky if you can land a hit without it being evaded, blocked or reflected, or your opponent having stability.

Just compare:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jump_Shot
vs
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Surge_of_the_Mists

Engi gets slightly more distance and some vuln on landing. For the same cooldown, Rev gets more damage, better scaling, 9 CCs, and evades for almost the entire skill duration.

The rest of the skills are similar. They don’t do enough since HoT power creep, and they’re countered by all the HoT defense – especially projectile hate.

coro.3176:

The self knockdown on rifle used to be fair. It was a high risk, high reward skill. Plus, it had occasional use to break immob or reposition out of aoe.

In the old days, you could expect Overcharged Shot to land almost every time. A fight was a chess match with you and your opponent trading CCs Now, you’re very very lucky if you can land a hit without it being evaded, blocked or reflected, or your opponent having stability.

Just compare:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jump_Shot
vs
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Surge_of_the_Mists

Engi gets slightly more distance and some vuln on landing. For the same cooldown, Rev gets more damage, better scaling, 9 CCs, and evades for almost the entire skill duration.

The rest of the skills are similar. They don’t do enough since HoT power creep, and they’re countered by all the HoT defense – especially projectile hate.

wouldnt it be cool if overcharged shot were a force to be reckoned with again instead of a liability.

that is what these nerfs are slowly doing. walking back the ridiculous power creep introduced with HoT.

base engi looks better today compared to scrapper than it did yesterday, and it doesnt seem to have fallen out of the meta that the nerfs are aimed at.

but its too slow. theyre afraid to change the meta at an alarming rate. multiple problems have been identified with the gameplay, but theyre addressing the problems 1 at a time over extremely long periods of time. maybe it isnt fear, maybe its red tape from higher up or quality control issues. whatever the actual reason is, it sucks.

and what sucks even more is going from the powerful state to the nerfed state, for the player. we hate having this crap taken away from us. but i have a serious question: when was the last time you were able to control and abuse the gyro dazes such that you won a fight with them? you cant control the positioning of the gyros, you cant control the damage theyre taking, and you are nearly always severely punished for exploding them (aside from medic gyro, which is the opposite). the only thing you can do is attempt to force your opponent onto a melee weapon and make them want to attack a gyro more than you, and the playstyle just isnt conducive to such a strategy. so yes, you incidentally prolly won fights from the random af dazes you got out of your gyros, but you had little or no control over that, and thats bad gameplay.

Yeah. I never used gyros specifically for their dazes. It was too difficult to predict where they’d be. However, there have been tons of times where I’d see, for example, a revenant using UA, and I’ll quickly flip to Toolkit, then pop Gear Shield just in time to block all the hits. That feels really good. It takes reflexes and skill.

Waiting 10-15 seconds during a fight to use your skills because your opponent has stab, or resistance, or constant reflects (Shield of Courage, Defense Field, etc.). That doesn’t feel good. Using Overcharged Shot or Magnet and having it countered by a trait like Hunter’s Determination or Eye for an Eye feels awful. Your opponent didn’t do anything to counter your attack.

What’s the point to detonate gyros early now ? Maybe it’s time to think about another function to replace detonate.

Also, what happens to this idea:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

At this point we’re not going to be able to change the elite specialization mechanic very much. There are still going to be changes to it with the possibility for expansion of functionality post-launch.

After 1 year, function gyro is still nearly useless in pve. Could you think again about the idea of making it possible to activate switch or reanimate dead NPC with it ?

Gyro detonation was useful in the same situations that the function gyro was. If not more. Enemies reviving the ally you are function gyro stomping? Daze and get that last second needed for a stomp. Enemy stomping the ally you are reviving in cleave? Use your heal to recover and time the detonate to reset his stomp. These are the things that make our class mechanic somewhat work. And to go on further-. Ele casting air overload with 1 stack of stab? Rip it with your gyro and chain it with another skill (since the ele will try to hit you it will be close enough for the gyro. Or the backline is nuking your frontline? Disrupt and spread disorientation. Removing the daze is like removing the stunbreak from elixir gun or the condi clear from healing turret.

I agree that the daze could be confined to manual detonation to lessen the feeling of randomness (even if you could argue that having the gyros detonate in your face for nuking the bruiser fits very well to the “take a hit, hit back” playstyle of the scrapper).

As for purity, the idea that we would want to let the gyros stay up for as long as possible, thats exactly what gyros weren’t marketed as. The gyros are arguably one of the most disposable minion type of all except for illusions, and in fact share more in common with the shatter mesmer than the turret engi or minion master. They are relatively short lived things with some passive effect while up and that can still be used in areas with heavy aoe pressure and focus (yknow like when a enemy or friend drops, or in the frontline or on the point) which made them useful even in a pvp setting. I actually think the original gyros might have had some thought behind them as to make a minion type thats viable in pvp without kittening people off as much (after the turret fiasco). Blast gyro and shredder gyro embody this kamikaze playstyle to its fullest but even the purge gyro can favor a manual burst between condi bombs to time it with the actual flow of combat (so you got it available earlier for the next bomb). And then theres the actual gyro trait, the grandmaster final salvo which heavily favors disposing of the gyros as fast as possible for maximum stability and regeneration. The bulwark used to be an exception but now that its 33% (and most of us got protection anyways (and no its not additive afaik)) i often found myself preventing more damage if i detonated it right when i got jumped in melee for example.

Also- Holy mother of gods, i was experimenting with a P/S scrapper and i equipped AA instead of final salvo. I had forgot how much more the function gyro sucked without the stab stack. When you forget you cant even leave your gyro to deal with stomping the guy after a 1vs1 and you have to walk back, apologize and stomp him manually anyway.

bulwark – you can heal it and as long as its alive, you take less damage. you want this gyro alive as long as possible.
cleanse gyro – it cleanses you and as long as its cleaning you, you are a huge threat to a condi class. you want this gyro alive as long as possible.
shredder – the longer its alive, the more damage it does (lololol). though its flawed its primary use case is still “dont pop me bro”.
blast – if you pop it, you dont get the knockback.

the only one that wants to die asap is medic and thats only cuz the heal it gives is so kittening unreliable and so kittening small that leaving it out cuts your healing per second to an unacceptably low level and it will get you killed against a similarly skilled opponent compared to taking healing turret. of course, the same is true of H and AED, unfortunately. healing turret is the only good option with the previous medic nerfs.

if gyros had some kind of “on cast” or “on activation” special thing that did more than what they do by sitting around, like what medic gyro has (a 4k heal), there would be a reason to pop them. because by popping them, you get to use that bigger thing more often. thats whats lacking here. blast kinda succeeds at it, and medic does, but the other 3 do not.

insanemaniac.2456:

bulwark – you can heal it and as long as its alive, you take less damage. you want this gyro alive as long as possible.
cleanse gyro – it cleanses you and as long as its cleaning you, you are a huge threat to a condi class. you want this gyro alive as long as possible.
shredder – the longer its alive, the more damage it does (lololol). though its flawed its primary use case is still “dont pop me bro”.
blast – if you pop it, you dont get the knockback.

the only one that wants to die asap is medic and thats only cuz the heal it gives is so kittening unreliable and so kittening small that leaving it out cuts your healing per second to an unacceptably low level and it will get you killed against a similarly skilled opponent compared to taking healing turret. of course, the same is true of H and AED, unfortunately. healing turret is the only good option with the previous medic nerfs.

if gyros had some kind of “on cast” or “on activation” special thing that did more than what they do by sitting around, like what medic gyro has (a 4k heal), there would be a reason to pop them. because by popping them, you get to use that bigger thing more often. thats whats lacking here. blast kinda succeeds at it, and medic does, but the other 3 do not.

But this whole idea of keeping them alive, is what makes gyros such an unbelievably bad idea. In essence Anet has given Scrapper a utility which you have to concentrate on keeping alive (depsite the blindingly obvious problems of Ai minions and pets, which have plagued GW2 from launch in terms of AI, AoE survival and balance across game modes) so that the utility can help to keep someone else alive.

Gyros are glass-middlemen and you have to concentrate on keeping them alive, instead of concentrating on keeping your team-mates alive directly or concentrating on what you’re doing. For all the dreadful pathing issues, AoE, Cleave, the travel time of the worthless buzzing annoyances and the pathetic range of their effects, it would be far easier to simply switch kits and run over to someone yourself.

The only tool that gyros had to deter enemy cleave and AoE while they are in use, was the threat of the daze. Take that away and there’s literally no reason for an enemy to simply charge in at their target and cleave right through any of the poxy floating mecha-rodents as if they’re not even there. For all they good they do, they may as well not be.

What really irks me is that it’s not like any of these problems were unknown. Any number of players could and did predict the problems that would exist by having more Ai based utilities. We’ve seen this kind of stripping away of utility and defence from Ai utilities before, on other classes but especially on Engineer. Gyro’s aren’t just paper-thin, poxy, proxies, they’re Turrets 2 – the Sequel.

It’s all very well trying to find a way to balance gyros but it’s a nigh impossible task. Any change to boost the detonation effect (be it manual or destruction by enemy) increases danger in PVP of flooding the battlefield with further “randomness” that is exacty what Anet are trying to avoid and players want less of.
Removing the detonation effects removes any threat and feasability the gyros have.
Making them immortal for their duration removes any counterplay and renders them OP despite the awful pathing issues.
Buffing their HP and Toughness, makes them too hard to fight against and absorb too much of an enemies efforts, rendering them OP.

Gyros are a no win scenario. They are the Kobeyashimaru of utilities and the reason they’ve just had the daze removed, is that Anet knows that there is literally nothing they can do about them. Just as the players did before the one and only beta-weekend scrapper received.

It’s funny that now we have the option to destroy gyros and that this option does nothing, except preventing them to be on cooldown as soon as we cast them.

Spleen.7836:

It’s funny that now we have the option to destroy gyros and that this option does nothing, except preventing them to be on cooldown as soon as we cast them.

They are dealing damage…. not scaling with the stats of the scrapper. :^)
Well played, Anet. Everyone said gyros are useless as you announced them. We never imagined you will find a way to make them even more useless. But you did it again, you turreted them.

This mechanical master brings damage and DISRUPTION to the profession through a variety of ingenious inventions and electrifying abilities… #NOT

Maybe it’s time to think about giving gyros another function instead of destroying them. It was already proposed during the beta weekend. For example, the possibility to give orders to the stealth gyro, chose were it goes. It could bring new strategies.

And for the next elite specs, please this time don’t put engies last.

wolfyrik.2017:

Gyros are a no win scenario. They are the Kobeyashimaru of utilities and the reason they’ve just had the daze removed, is that Anet knows that there is literally nothing they can do about them. Just as the players did before the one and only beta-weekend scrapper received.

it’s funny you would bring up the kobeyashimaru, cuz obviously the scenario got beat. the conventional means to beat it were to just not crack under pressure, but obviously one could take a step back and break the underlying systems the test was constructed upon.

the same is true of gyros. but in your thoughts on the subject, you are cracking.

idk I think what’s missing from (most) gyros right now is a compelling birth/death effect. something that makes you want to use them and expend them often instead of the fire and forget gameplay they currently have that does really lend itself to being as active as the devs hoped. blast gyro is pretty much perfect in this sense, although the pathing issues it sometimes has bring it down a notch. same for medic, but even more bleah, it not only has pathing and delayed movement issues, it’s also weak to keep out.

if shredder (lolollol) and purge had some extra effect and then didn’t suck at doing what they’re supposed to do, they could be pretty good. something like aoe cleanse 3-5 condis upon summoning purge, or maybe 3-5 sec of resistance when it explodes. something slightly bigger than the effect that it gives by following you around, especially something that gives it that reason to be expended.

insanemaniac.2456:

wolfyrik.2017:

Gyros are a no win scenario. They are the Kobeyashimaru of utilities and the reason they’ve just had the daze removed, is that Anet knows that there is literally nothing they can do about them. Just as the players did before the one and only beta-weekend scrapper received.

it’s funny you would bring up the kobeyashimaru, cuz obviously the scenario got beat. the conventional means to beat it were to just not crack under pressure, but obviously one could take a step back and break the underlying systems the test was constructed upon.

the same is true of gyros. but in your thoughts on the subject, you are cracking.

idk I think what’s missing from (most) gyros right now is a compelling birth/death effect. something that makes you want to use them and expend them often instead of the fire and forget gameplay they currently have that does really lend itself to being as active as the devs hoped. blast gyro is pretty much perfect in this sense, although the pathing issues it sometimes has bring it down a notch. same for medic, but even more bleah, it not only has pathing and delayed movement issues, it’s also weak to keep out.

if shredder (lolollol) and purge had some extra effect and then didn’t suck at doing what they’re supposed to do, they could be pretty good. something like aoe cleanse 3-5 condis upon summoning purge, or maybe 3-5 sec of resistance when it explodes. something slightly bigger than the effect that it gives by following you around, especially something that gives it that reason to be expended.

The Kobeyashimaru was beaten, true, but by cheating. I’m not sure how that really helps in this case. I agree that the way to win is break the system, but how many times in the last 4 years have anet done something like that?

I tend to agree with you that the Blast gyro is the most effective in it’s role of the lot, but as you rightly pointed out previously, the support gyros were designed to require upkeep and discourage being destroyed. To change that would require that anet change their design philosophy for gyros which, if history shown repeatedly, Anet outright refuse to do, even when the design has been repeatedly proven to not work within the game. Necro’s shroud, Ranger’s pet, Ai utilities need I go on?

What’s more, even in the extremely unlikely event that Anet actually did break with convention and change their position on gyros turning them into a fire-and-forget utility like Blast Gyro, would make them little different to regular utilities. May as well just replace them with wide-AoE gadgets….as a matter of fact, it seems to me that this would be the best outcome. Delete the kitten things and just give us functional gadgets, work extra gadget traits into scrapper to replace the gyro ones. But of course, Anet would never do that.

wolfyrik.2017:

The Kobeyashimaru was beaten, true, but by cheating. I’m not sure how that really helps in this case. I agree that the way to win is break the system, but how many times in the last 4 years have anet done something like that?

it isnt really cheating. its a subjective test so there is no wrong answer. pulling out your phaser and shooting your security officer in the back before surrendering is an acceptable response, just not the one they would look for in a captain. walking in to a situation prepared and ready to be extremely unpredictable to the opponent (whoever that may be, not necessarily the thing in front of you) happens to be a quality thats pretty good for a captain, despite the accusation of cheating and despite being flippant about everything.

anet doesnt seem to do that, but theres no reason for us to not have good ideas. they do read these forums, even if we get no overt acknowledgement. its just that most of the time the suggestions that get posted are simply untenable from either a gameplay or a programming perspective. simple suggestions that have a low implementation cost and also “correctly” steer purpose/strategy/gameplay are rare (especially when “correctly” prolly means “aligns with the dev assigned to engi’s vision for the class”). more specifically, they seem to not look for anything that requires animator time, unfortunately. if the thing youre suggest is gonna require a new animation, just throw it out (thats the majority of suggestions in this forum).

Now that utility googles are on a 30 sec cooldown, shouldn’t the trait “reactive lenses” be on a 30 sec cooldown as well ?

insanemaniac.2456:

wolfyrik.2017:

The Kobeyashimaru was beaten, true, but by cheating. I’m not sure how that really helps in this case. I agree that the way to win is break the system, but how many times in the last 4 years have anet done something like that?

it isnt really cheating. its a subjective test so there is no wrong answer. pulling out your phaser and shooting your security officer in the back before surrendering is an acceptable response, just not the one they would look for in a captain. walking in to a situation prepared and ready to be extremely unpredictable to the opponent (whoever that may be, not necessarily the thing in front of you) happens to be a quality thats pretty good for a captain, despite the accusation of cheating and despite being flippant about everything.

anet doesnt seem to do that, but theres no reason for us to not have good ideas. they do read these forums, even if we get no overt acknowledgement. its just that most of the time the suggestions that get posted are simply untenable from either a gameplay or a programming perspective. simple suggestions that have a low implementation cost and also “correctly” steer purpose/strategy/gameplay are rare (especially when “correctly” prolly means “aligns with the dev assigned to engi’s vision for the class”). more specifically, they seem to not look for anything that requires animator time, unfortunately. if the thing youre suggest is gonna require a new animation, just throw it out (thats the majority of suggestions in this forum).

I think we’re pretty much in agreement here. I certainly agree that Anet either cannot or will not make changes which the majority of people want. The question is; what changes can they make? Players are offering up suggestions that cannot be achieved, true, but that’s because anet don’t let us know what the limits are. What are they able to change? What are they willing to change? Why haven’t they made such changes already?

Arguably this all the more reason for increased communication or even, as suggested in another thread, let players see the notes. Give us a look into the balance patch process. I’ve previously argued and maintain that if Anet would only give some explanation for the bizarre changes we see every balance patch, the forums would be far less hostile and more productive.

Anet has an entire army of testers waiting in the wings, using their product, getting familair with the game mechanics, even specialising in each class. Woudn’t it make sense to use of them?

Arena so stupid….i hate this game more and more…

wolfyrik.2017:

I think we’re pretty much in agreement here. I certainly agree that Anet either cannot or will not make changes which the majority of people want. The question is; what changes can they make? Players are offering up suggestions that cannot be achieved, true, but that’s because anet don’t let us know what the limits are. What are they able to change? What are they willing to change? Why haven’t they made such changes already?

Arguably this all the more reason for increased communication or even, as suggested in another thread, let players see the notes. Give us a look into the balance patch process. I’ve previously argued and maintain that if Anet would only give some explanation for the bizarre changes we see every balance patch, the forums would be far less hostile and more productive.

Anet has an entire army of testers waiting in the wings, using their product, getting familair with the game mechanics, even specialising in each class. Woudn’t it make sense to use of them?

I don’t think they believe they’re in need of testers. They managed to get by without them for years when it comes to balance.

However, it should be in their interest to make this place more pleasant and productive and not to alienate their fans/customers with a course nobody understands.
This doesn’t even include letting the community actively participate in the balance discussion.

To be honest, “purity of prupose” was probably their attempt at doing exactly this but it backfired (and for good reasons). Either the explanation doesn’t match the changes or they’ve left out cruicial rationale.
In either way, it definitely spells “we’re not going to make any drastic changes”. Unfortunately, there is no way for the community to know what the supposed purpose of a given ability is.

For what it’s worth, I sent a polite message to the community manager requesting some developer attention on these threads. IMO, they’re full of some good constructive ideas and not just people whining.

I haven’t heard anything back though. I’m sure I was probably ignored/blocked for even asking.

who, gaile? shes good at what she does

Escadin.9482:

I don’t think they believe they’re in need of testers. They managed to get by without them for years when it comes to balance.

However, it should be in their interest to make this place more pleasant and productive and not to alienate their fans/customers with a course nobody understands.
This doesn’t even include letting the community actively participate in the balance discussion.

To be honest, “purity of prupose” was probably their attempt at doing exactly this but it backfired (and for good reasons). Either the explanation doesn’t match the changes or they’ve left out cruicial rationale.
In either way, it definitely spells “we’re not going to make any drastic changes”. Unfortunately, there is no way for the community to know what the supposed purpose of a given ability is.

Yeah put it poorly, didn’t mean testers as in beta testers or test servers. I was more thinking of people to provide ideas or listen to ideas due to their ingame experience. It’s my thinking that Anet staff surely aren’t playing the game as much as they’re writing it? Players must surely have the most experience as to what weakness and strengths each class has, across the broadest range of scenarios. More so than any Dev. Wouldn’t it be wise to make use of that experience?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting that Anet should run things by players first, but surely clueing us into to what can be changed, then occasionaly posting up preliminary patch notes would allow Anet to get feedback that’s actually useful and may prevent the alienation you so rightly speak of. It would certainly have helped this Rocket Boots calamity.

jonemirant.1653:

dont forget destroying gyro can’t stun anymore, meanwhile a full trap-guard still has 5 interrupts to chainlock you to death.

+10, for optimism.

Meanwhile, take the amount of constructive criticism and suggestions they have received over the years and how much of that has actually been translated into real game mechanics.

I’m just glad that shield got a small buff. It’s worth using now in wvw/pvp. Not all players focus on pve anyways.

Ideas? ok…

Maybe the problem is in the base? Maybe the could try something to create diversity instead of something to reduce it?

Extremely unpolished example:

Adaptive Armor: Gain stacking toughness when struck. Reduce incoming condition damage. Your gyros and turrets regenerate X life every X time.

Applied Force: Gain quickness when you gain might above the threshold. Your gyros and turrets daze when destroyed.

Final Salvo: Activating a gyro or turret grants stability to you and the gyro. Your gyros and turrets grant superspeed and create a lightning field when destroyed every X time.

Med kit totall rework – raids need a 1 healer for 10 ppl. Druid is ranged heal with utilities, ele is meele range with great heal, engi can be mobile average heal with great cc… but this is only sci-fi..

Engi need rework streamlined kits to be more rewarded for carpal tunel kit switching.

Alchemy have many potentional. Dont tell me if you drink elixir B then elixir C , inside you this two different elixirs must do something (some reaction) only thing for think.

Engi must choose path why you need him. Biggest condi dmg? Biggest cc? Meaby unique condi debuff? If anet don’t want touch on this, so make engi much easier to play….

Ardid.7203:

when destroyed every X time.

personally i prefer on destroy or on summon

every X time doesnt lend itself to expendability. suddenly the life of the summon is valuable, because more life time = more fields.

insanemaniac.2456:

Ardid.7203:

when destroyed every X time.

personally i prefer on destroy or on summon

every X time doesnt lend itself to expendability. suddenly the life of the summon is valuable, because more life time = more fields.

That’s exactly the point: you’ll have to choose if you want to play a build focused on summoning and destroying gyros as fast as posible to gain great CC, or a build which needs you to sustain and maintain your minion working to gain boons.

Of course my examples aren’t the best, but the point stands: instead of overnerfing the only current build, they should divide it, creating opportunities for more viable playstyles.

So far the goal of ANet seems to be reducing build diversity…

Yo Anet if you dint want engineers to use gyros for detonations why make it a toggle also why make gyros have neither armor nor stat scaling? if you want players to keep gyros alive for their abilities Make them able to endure more than 2 seconds in actual combat , they are useless both in pve and pvp except for the bulwark gyro wich is still semi useless in pvp , maybe make gyros like pre nerf turrets, gyros only last a couple seconds anyway

Ardid.7203:

insanemaniac.2456:

Ardid.7203:

when destroyed every X time.

personally i prefer on destroy or on summon

every X time doesnt lend itself to expendability. suddenly the life of the summon is valuable, because more life time = more fields.

That’s exactly the point: you’ll have to choose if you want to play a build focused on summoning and destroying gyros as fast as posible to gain great CC, or a build which needs you to sustain and maintain your minion working to gain boons.

Of course my examples aren’t the best, but the point stands: instead of overnerfing the only current build, they should divide it, creating opportunities for more viable playstyles.

I guess I misunderstood you. I say that as a general thing with regards to gyros since they seem to be intended to be disposable and not something that you try to keep alive.

I agree that more playstyles is good :p

insanemaniac.2456:

Ardid.7203:

insanemaniac.2456:

Ardid.7203:

when destroyed every X time.

personally i prefer on destroy or on summon

every X time doesnt lend itself to expendability. suddenly the life of the summon is valuable, because more life time = more fields.

That’s exactly the point: you’ll have to choose if you want to play a build focused on summoning and destroying gyros as fast as posible to gain great CC, or a build which needs you to sustain and maintain your minion working to gain boons.

Of course my examples aren’t the best, but the point stands: instead of overnerfing the only current build, they should divide it, creating opportunities for more viable playstyles.

I guess I misunderstood you. I say that as a general thing with regards to gyros since they seem to be intended to be disposable and not something that you try to keep alive.

I agree that more playstyles is good :p

I think an overheat mechanic would be cool for gyros, they cant be destroyed, but each time they use their skills they win heat, when they overheat, they temporarily malfunction until they cool down again :P

You mean like the promised fuel mechanic? o.o u.u

Manuhell.2759:

ampy.1387:

There was a little bit of love but still doesn’t tickle my kitten…

A bit of love?
They’ve put relevant nerfs (that make no sense outside of pvp) and some useless buffs that won’t absolutely make the class better in what it lacks. Not even the first time it happens, anyway.
If anything, i would say they despise us, at this point.

I understand and as I said for years… Anet just doesn’t care for us anymore.

Anet, how about you fix turrets to a state where actually ppl are going to use them. Or just delete them, because after 3 years, noone would probably notice if they are gone.

You forgot, Shredder Gyro is still UNIMAGINABLY worthless.

Who the hell came up with this stupid idea? Where the hell is the ‘purity of purpose’ in this gyro, Anet? Does it do damage? Does it give utility? Zone control? Area denial? CC? Currently it does NOTHING. If fields/finishers ever receive a rework, maybe then it’ll be an exciting pickup. As of currently, it’s COMPLETELY worthless.

This ability is on par with the Ranger’s Muddy Terrain for absolutely most trash ability in the entire game.

well shredder gyro would be good enough to replace even grenades in a condi build if it put out just 5 whirls / sec… but it puts out 2. we know they can up that number. theyve changed the numbers on shroud 4. why they wont change the numbers on shredder is beyond me.

The condition damage it puts out doesn’t scale with player stats, last I recall. So even in the best case it’s putting out 100 damage burns.

oh right. that calculation is assuming it uses your condi damage too.