Guild Wars 2

I used to manually pulse regeneration from a placed HT during longish group fights, detonating the field with another blast (not destroyng the turret) for AOE healing. Now I can’t do that. NOW I have no reason to have the turret up.
But they weren’t solving that. They were solving the fact that people only used the toolbelt skill. Aka, this change is for raiders that use rifle turret.

Zivilyn Bane.6520:

coro.3176:

I don’t know. I’m glad they’re trying to fix things, but I’m a bit sad that it removes some active gameplay from turrets.

Eg. You can no longer deploy healing turret and blast another field without overcharging it. That was a very very important use of the turret and now you can’t cast it without ruining someone else’s fire field.

Actually, if you mash the skill (or are quick enough) you can just detonate the turret and it won’t have time to overcharge, thus no water field. Contrary to popular belief it does not instantly overcharge when you drop it, it just attempts to do it automatically and has a short cast time.

Ugh. noooo.

So now in the heat of combat, you’ll press heal twice and get half a heal instead… I liked it the way it was before.

Obtena.7952:

The choice is you can take advantage of an overloaded turret immediately or keep them up … you didn’t have that choice before. If you think the turrets are useless, then you have decided to use your turrets that way …. a CHOICE you make. Maybe you shouldn’t assume everyone thinks as you do to pretend this isn’t better than the way it was.

I mean, are you going to tell me the old way was better or that this new way is not? I think that’s clearly not the case. It might not be the improvement you were looking for, but it is an improvement.

I’m ok with the overcharge off the bat (and not using up a toolbelt skill for detonate), but here’s the problem with your logic:

The turrets are made objectively weaker by this decision. Instead of using them to defend a position (like they were intended), they’re now most useful if you place them down and then detonate them after overcharge. This change actually gives us fewer options on how to use the turrets (despite how weak they were, and still are). At least before, you could overcharge a turret MULTIPLE times before its timer ran out. Now, you get the one and done.

It wouldn’t have been difficult for them to simply make the turret overcharge on its own timer repeatedly. Yet they failed to even do that.

Additionally, this affects our most useful turret too, the healing turret. Before, it could overcharge heal teammates in an area on a semi-regular basis. You could choose to do that or the healing bomb. Now, they’ve virtually guaranteed that it’s only a healing bomb.

Not sure if you have thought of this but perhaps that’s the way Anet wants them used; and the ability to defend a position is still there if that’s how you wish to use them that way, even if there is an alternate and better option available. To be frank, I think people aren’t really thinking about the fact that this is an improvement, even if it’s not the one you want.

I also don’t see option reduction as generally a big problem, especially in this game where it’s inferred there is no attempt to balance options equally to achieve a diversity that would result from equivalent options.

Obtena.7952:

Not sure if you have thought of this but perhaps that’s the way Anet wants them used;

Uhh…

Using a healing turret instead of a healing bomb? Don’t you think they would have made it a healing bomb instead of that was its intended design? They’ve been making the case for “purity of purpose” (such as in FT kit), and then they go design the turrets to be better at blowing up? That’s a weird “purity” if you ask me.

To be frank, I think people aren’t really thinking about the fact that this is an improvement, even if it’s not the one you want.

In what sense is this an improvement? People who use power bomber aren’t going to lay down the rifle turret anyway, given that its damage is weak and the other turrets aren’t worth taking. The healing turret will require a significant amount of unlearning for a slightly more intuitive design that constrains our options.

I also don’t see option reduction as generally a big problem, especially in this game where it’s inferred there is no attempt to balance options equally to achieve a diversity that would result from equivalent options.

I present to you your own words:

The whole point of the change is that it gives choice. Why are people always so angry when they get choices?

Patch note says:
Turrets: Added a 0.5-second recharge delay to detonate-turret skills, when a turret is first placed, in order to prevent accidental detonation.

Well they ALMOST solved the problem of detonating before overcharging but I can still manage to detonate before the overcharge kicks in when I spam the healing button
if anyone knows how to inform the devs about this that would be cool because now is the time that most of such issues will be resolved (patches)
Video Proof

ITS A MATHER OF MILLISECONDS SOMETIMES THE DETONATION COMES BEFORE THE OVERCHARGE AND SOMETIMES THE OVERCHARGE COMES BEFORE THE DETONATION.

I’ve already explained why this gives choice and it should be obvious why choice is good. If you don’t see that, well, I guess don’t try. I won’t try to guess what the Anet thinking was for the change (actually they explained it), I can just see that I now have the choice to use overloaded turrets when it’s placed when I didn’t before. If that reduces function, than that’s the tradeoff that exists.

Is the discussion here that having overloaded turrets on placement is not worth the tradeoff of less functionality? That seems like a really subjective discussion.

And… what is the supossed improvement? That we can use the toolbelt with the turret up? They seriously believe that was the reason why people exploded turrets right away?

santenal.1054:

Patch note says:
Turrets: Added a 0.5-second recharge delay to detonate-turret skills, when a turret is first placed, in order to prevent accidental detonation.

Well they ALMOST solved the problem of detonating before overcharging but I can still manage to detonate before the overcharge kicks in when I spam the healing button
if anyone knows how to inform the devs about this that would be cool because now is the time that most of such issues will be resolved (patches)
Video Proof

(posting it here 2 for more exposure)

This is important. Maybe submit a support ticket?

Spamming the button should give you overcharge before it detonates. You shouldn’t be waiting for x milliseconds after you cast the thing for it to deploy and overcharge, then be punished by massively less healing if you guessed too soon.

Very little in this patch outside sustain nerfs in the form of bunker down(BD) protection injection(PI), bulwark gyro(BG), and purge gyro(PG) and turret QoL changes. Still dont think turrets will see play outside of healing turret.

The PI nerf is interesting, but they didnt follow it up with anything. Like autodefense bomb dispenser(ABD) buff, firing on CC, not 1-2 seconds after being CC’d. Clearly no-one is taking health insurance, lel. So the option now is PI or invigorating speed(IS).

I still think PI wins out although there is an argument to be made that if you are using Elixir B and speedy kits(SK) thus optimised activation(OA) you will have close to, or perma vigor on the standard commanders Engi if you slot IS. As the icd on IS is still only 5sec.

With adrenal implant(AI) 50% endo buff or the food that gives you 40% endurance regen increase. Provided they function in an additive manner, you can sit at 90%-100% endurance regen. Im assuming the 100% cap still exists so you can’t stack all of them for 140%.

santenal.1054:

Patch note says:
Turrets: Added a 0.5-second recharge delay to detonate-turret skills, when a turret is first placed, in order to prevent accidental detonation.

Well they ALMOST solved the problem of detonating before overcharging but I can still manage to detonate before the overcharge kicks in when I spam the healing button
if anyone knows how to inform the devs about this that would be cool because now is the time that most of such issues will be resolved (patches)
Video Proof

(posting it here 2 for more exposure)

Yeah if the water field drops at the same time as the turret, that should fix it.

I did a bug report ingame and made a thread in the “Bugs: Game, Forum, Website” part of the forum.

Ardid.7203:

And… what is the supossed improvement? That we can use the toolbelt with the turret up? They seriously believe that was the reason why people exploded turrets right away?

its been a major complaint about turrets for the entire life of the game. they took 4.5 years to address it.

go look at literally any thread mentioning “thumper” and “suggestions” and youll see something like “i wish i didnt have to have the turret not out to use the stunbreak” o.O

its not why theyre exploded right away necessarily, but in their backlog of turret reworks this addresses probably the oldest complaint.

Confirmed the overcharge thing is a problem. I jumped in WvW was at low health, mashed the heal button. Detonate went off before overcharge. I got 2.5k heal instead of ~7k heal + condi cleanse. I died.

Went back and reviewed the video – sure enough, overcharge isn’t going off before it’s destroyed.

This doesn’t happen every time. It’s maybe 10-20% of the time I heal in combat, but it’s common enough that I have to slow down my heal a lot and it’s getting me killed.

Edit – Video Proof: https://youtu.be/-KNeJwMlYwk

Guys, have you considered looking for the water field (to appear) before blasting the turret? Because the time of turret making a water field didn’t change. There was always a slight delay.

I can understand that when you need the heal, you want it asap to survive so people are tempted to buttonmash. Even with the previous iteration, the water field didn’t appear right away all the time. This just needs mindset adjusting and little paying attention.

I certainly don’t feel that this is the biggest issue. Trying to streamline turrets is nice idea but the thumper turret or rocket turret are much worse now than healing turret is because now you can use the overcharge only once at spawning it.

The general idea, as someone has already pointed out, was to spawn turrets at the place you want to defend beforehand and work on making them survive as long as possible. At least that was what Anet originally designed them for.

This change goes directly against it and if engi wants to use them effectively, he needs to spawn them only when he encounters the enemy and after that they’re quite useless. So engi needs to destroy them, wait for the cd and spawn them again. Most of the time when they come off cd the fight is already over.

This didn’t help turrets and it didn’t incentivize taking them. Turrets need complete overhaul. And yet they are IMO less important than gadgets, rifle or shield. TBH I don’t see turrets being viable in pve ever. IMO they can be either OP or UP, not in between. I’d rather see them focus on skills that could actually change the build meta and create more variety.

coro.3176:

Confirmed the overcharge thing is a problem. I jumped in WvW was at low health, mashed the heal button. Detonate went off before overcharge. I got 2.5k heal instead of ~7k heal + condi cleanse. I died.

Went back and reviewed the video – sure enough, overcharge isn’t going off before it’s destroyed.

This doesn’t happen every time. It’s maybe 10-20% of the time I heal in combat, but it’s common enough that I have to slow down my heal a lot and it’s getting me killed.

Edit – Video Proof: https://youtu.be/-KNeJwMlYwk

It’s because the delay is 1/2 a second, and the overcharge takes 3/4 of a second. There’s 1/4 of a second where you can detonate without the field up.

For engineers who are too afraid to deploy their turrets because they don’t want their belt skills being overridden, kittening learn the class and manage all your skill CDs please. I’m so tired of Anet nerfing engineer because some garbage newbie engineers complaining the class is too much to handle.

Dothl Lai.5829:

For engineers who are too afraid to deploy their turrets because they don’t want their belt skills being overridden, kittening learn the class and manage all your skill CDs please. I’m so tired of Anet nerfing engineer because some garbage newbie engineers complaining the class is too much to handle.

dont be ridiculous. thumper turret is a lame duck with a competition between having it out and having a stun break.

insanemaniac.2456:

Dothl Lai.5829:

For engineers who are too afraid to deploy their turrets because they don’t want their belt skills being overridden, kittening learn the class and manage all your skill CDs please. I’m so tired of Anet nerfing engineer because some garbage newbie engineers complaining the class is too much to handle.

dont be ridiculous. thumper turret is a lame duck with a competition between having it out and having a stun break.

Then that’s your fault for carrying thumper turret when obviously slick shoe is a better substitute.

Dothl Lai.5829:

insanemaniac.2456:

Dothl Lai.5829:

For engineers who are too afraid to deploy their turrets because they don’t want their belt skills being overridden, kittening learn the class and manage all your skill CDs please. I’m so tired of Anet nerfing engineer because some garbage newbie engineers complaining the class is too much to handle.

dont be ridiculous. thumper turret is a lame duck with a competition between having it out and having a stun break.

Then that’s your fault for carrying thumper turret when obviously slick shoe is a better substitute.

oh sure, we should just have unviable utilities. LOL

I’ve made some suggestions here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Suggestions-Turrets/first#post6590710

Obtena.7952:

The whole point of the change is that it gives choice.Why are people always so angry when they get choices?

No,people gets angry when the “choices” (aka balance aka rework) they get are made around ….let me guess…. the PVE side of this game without thinking about the side effects on the other 2 MODES.

Now lets talk about this,cos this premise is glorious:

Engineer
Most of the time, engineers were taking turret skills and never deploying the turret because the Tool Belt skill was too important to be overridden by the detonate turret skill.

Its not that Toolbelt skills were too important…turrets just suck.
On a side note… let me guess where this HUGE problem was happening…in raids?!

And dont even try to argue that.The WvW comunity,for an entire year,asked to nerf the Ghost Thief … “worked as intended”/ silence… but the moment it soloed Slothasor “the fix” arrived after 5 days. (just to mention the latest one)

Wanna talk about choices?!Good lets talk about it

• Turrets – not a valid choice (unless u leather farm with other 20 engineers)
• Pain inverter – not a valid choice
• Radiation field – not a valid choice
• Technoblade – not a valid choice
• Personal Battering Ram – not a valid choice
• Gyros – good idea,badly implemented
• Supply Crate – was valid

Talents are a mess in general and what u have to work with are exactly those 4,5 utilities/traits from 2011: as an engineer or a scrapper (doesnt maatter that much).But u know what?!
Condi Meta in PvE aswell in PvP…and engineers always had an “amazing” condicleans right?!

Wanna improve turrets?! Buff the dmg and the resistance.Done.

I won’t argue if Anet got their assessment right or wrong; I have no idea how they conclude that people don’t deploy turrets because of toolbelt skils being too important.

I will argue that this gives Eng’s a choice they did not have previously. It’s neither right or wrong that the choice is based on any specific element of the game; that’s Anet’s prerogative to decide why and what game element a change focuses on. The fact that there are three of those elements should indicate to any player that a change may not appeal to them based on that player’s favoured game element;

TLDR; you need to get over yourself if a change didn’t positively affect your preferred game mode. That’s just a fact of this game. If it bothers you that much, you shouldn’t play games that don’t completely separate class skills between PVE and PVP .

Given the squishy nature of turrets the change seems to help. I was able to drop scrapper and use turrets and elixirs to better efficiency at this last change, though I will readily admit I’ve almost given up on engineers as a class completely. I liked power and the turrets allowed me before the crit change to set up a perimeter and hold off a strong attack. Or with a Supply Drop break through a stubborn pack of mobs. Now they just agro everything in the area and barely last a few seconds. So yeah you need them to do their effects fast since they’re not reliable for extended periods of time. Here’s a change everyone could get behind get rid of the explosion as an active skill and have it just be what the turret does when it’s destroyed. You can just pick up your turret or maybe just have them travel with you since this mechanic really doesn’t make sense with them being soo easily destroyed to set up a decent perimeter.

Obtena.7952:

I will argue that this gives Eng’s a choice they did not have previously. It’s neither right or wrong that the choice is based on any specific element of the game;

Sorry, but I disagree.

This change removes choice.

Before there was a choice of using the toolbelt skill, or deploying the turret and using the overcharge in a tactical situation, or detonating the turret.

Now all you have is deploy the turret and detonate as soon as OC is done. Turrets became bombs…

The interesting gameplay option of turrets (if they were good) was to use overcharge strategicaly, and using the detonation on a time you need the CC/blast above the turret.
This opened for a lot of strategy.

The new way it is now makes using the blast from turrets for other combos inviable as pre-deployment will trigger the fields with healing turret and flame turret and the blast with thumper…

I understand the advantage of using toolbelt skills while turrets are active, but removing the control of when to overcharge a turret is not a good trade off…

I’ve made a suggestion on another tread to bring this control back in a 3-step (deploy-Overcharge-detonate) instead of removing the control completely.

What turrets need is improvements to their attributes and their traits. Not less control and dumped down gameplay.

The point is, does this changes matter overall?

Nobody gave a **** about the future of the turrets, as everyone already accepted they were a lame and a laughable choice, is it matter, to argue this changes, if people are gonna give a **** about them again in a month, and focus about kits again?

Obtena.7952:

I won’t argue if Anet got their assessment right or wrong; I have no idea how they conclude that people don’t deploy turrets because of toolbelt skils being too important.

I will argue that this gives Eng’s a choice they did not have previously. It’s neither right or wrong that the choice is based on any specific element of the game; that’s Anet’s prerogative to decide why and what game element a change focuses on. The fact that there are three of those elements should indicate to any player that a change may not appeal to them based on that player’s favoured game element;

TLDR; you need to get over yourself if a change didn’t positively affect your preferred game mode. That’s just a fact of this game. If it bothers you that much, you shouldn’t play games that don’t completely separate class skills between PVE and PVP .

Actually it doesnt bother me anymore.
I mean ofc it was a let down back in 2011,the moment i found out turrets were actually that bad in any practical use.
Scrapper didnt worked that good aswell: Rocket Charge with random directions (like really?!) and bugged/cluncky Gyros didnt helped…lets say at this point im used to.

But forget about that,thats not the point.Instead im kinda getting interested in your point of view:

• “Why are people always so angry when they get choices?”
  Tried to explain why that choice wasnt the best one
• “You need to get over yourself …yadayadayada …If it bothers you that much, you shouldn’t play games that don’t completely separate class skills between PVE and PVP"
  We are still talking about Gw2?!PvE content,the so called progression was introduced around 2013 (Fractals) and then 2016 (Raids)

Ok cool,then why WvW maps were removed from World Completion?!
If waiting for your server rotation or the pvp itself,in a small single map,was such a bother to get that juicy 100% exploration(and the amazing start right next to the name),pvers shuldnt play games that don’t completely separate exploration between PvE and PvP or maybe stick to singleplayer.

They aswell had a choice: get into the kitten WvW maps and grab the vista or not…they were so angry about it…y?

Thats fine…now i understand the mentality behind that glorious premise :P
And where we are getting to

I don’t see the relevance of if the choice is the best or not … that doesn’t change the fact you have that choice to make. You do not get to decide what the choices are that are given to you.

As for the rest of your post, I can’t follow you; I don’t see what map completion in WvW has to do with engi turret changes.

They actually removed choice. Previously, we had the CHOICE to blast our healing turret on another field, OR overcharge it for a water field.

Now, it automatically overcharges – except sometimes it doesn’t because it’s bugged.

So you have a different set of choices that Anet thinks is more appropriate for the direction they want the class to go. That doesn’t change what I’ve said here. I tested this last night. I really don’t see the problem, other than whatever bug exists. I can have my turret or blow it up, or use the toolkit. I got three choices I can make. It’s irrelevant if you don’t like those choices; that doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

Obtena.7952:

As for the rest of your post, I can’t follow you;

Oh come on now…

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see what map completion in WvW has to do with engi turret changes.

Exactly in the same way u dont see the weight difference those changes have in WvW.

:p

OK, I don’t know what you’re going on about. I’m not discussing how those changes affect WvW, I never even made an attempt to do so. Therefore your conclusion that I don’t see how it affects WvW makes no sense. It’s also irrevelant to the fact that I was establishing about Anet directing the game with how they want players to make the choices given to them. I don’t see how that’s unreasonable; I’ve yet to play an MMO where the devs don’t make changes that encourage players to adapt.

As for the map completion, I’m just going to pretend you misspoke if you don’t have a related point between it and the discussion.

If you don’t like how game changes impact how and what you play, then you are playing the wrong kind of game. FPS that way —>

For example, in WvW, the commander might say “stack might”, and everyone will drop fire fields and use blast finishers.

Engineers would drop healing turret, and destroy it after it deploys for a blast. Now we don’t get that option. If we deploy our turret, it drops a water field and ruins everyone else’s blast finishers. Alternatively, we could drop our turret first, but that forces your squad to wait an extra second or two for your water field to go off first – not viable in fast-paced wvw.

Edit: It’s not viable because the squad simply does not have time to wait an extra 2 seconds. kitten happens fast. We need to be able to keep up, and we need our blast options to work.

I don’t see a problem with that scenario … sounds to me like the squad that has the smarter players will know how to handle that eventuality and make MEANINGFUL CHOICES. Seems to me you are telling me that such a change is unfair to players that don’t want to think about how they use their choices. I lament the idea that changes to the game that force players to make meaningful choices are bad ones, yet it seems it’s becoming more and more frequent amount players to complain that meaningful choices are bad to them and how they play.

Frankly, I think if it was easier to engineer these complexities, there should be many more of them and they should have absolutely CRUSHING effects on people that wouldn’t take advantage of them. That’s the real way to distinguish the difference between mindless zerg mass PVP and a thoughtful approach.

this guy lol …

Yeah. Obtena is a pretty obvious troll.

Patch note:
Alchemical Tinctures: This trait now functions with Toss Elixir X.

Nothing about healing turret

drop healing turret late in the might stack. the fire field will be older and you’ll still blast might, and if you don’t suck at spamming you might even be able to kill your turret before it drops the field.

I don’t see how this is an issue. you know game mechanics right coro. you know blasts go by field age right.

insanemaniac.2456:

drop healing turret late in the might stack. the fire field will be older and you’ll still blast might, and if you don’t suck at spamming you might even be able to kill your turret before it drops the field.
I don’t see how this is an issue. you know game mechanics right coro. you know blasts go by field age right.

Except, if you actually pay attention to fields/finishers, you will notice how random, buggy and unreliable the whole system is.

I agree with the point made earlier, everything started to be balanced around raids. I hope no engi with kits will attempt to solo a raid boss, because if those will be nerfed to oblivion, we are left with nothing.

except i do actually pay attention to them and they absolutely are not buggy, random, or unreliable.

BRING BACK STUN ON GYRO DETONATE

whew

/rant

insanemaniac.2456:

drop healing turret late in the might stack. the fire field will be older and you’ll still blast might, and if you don’t suck at spamming you might even be able to kill your turret before it drops the field.

I don’t see how this is an issue. you know game mechanics right coro. you know blasts go by field age right.

Facts matter little to people that don’t like change. Be careful before presenting facts gets you labeled a troll.

I would urge people to think about the changes before crying wolf. I mean, the bottom line here is that this is simply a matter of relearning timing and playing smarter. I know that won’t appeal to people that just want to faceroll to victory but in all honestly, there is no argument that makes sense for supporting facerolling to victory. Claiming this is ruins healing turrets in WvW because of field overlay is a proclamation of being unwilling to think about what you do when playing.

Obtena.7952:

insanemaniac.2456:

drop healing turret late in the might stack. the fire field will be older and you’ll still blast might, and if you don’t suck at spamming you might even be able to kill your turret before it drops the field.

I don’t see how this is an issue. you know game mechanics right coro. you know blasts go by field age right.

Facts matter little to people that don’t like change. Be careful before presenting facts gets you labeled a troll.

I would urge people to think about the changes before crying wolf. I mean, the bottom line here is that this is simply a matter of relearning timing and playing smarter. I know that won’t appeal to people that just want to faceroll to victory but in all honestly, there is no argument that makes sense for supporting facerolling to victory. Claiming this is ruins healing turrets in WvW because of field overlay is a proclamation of being unwilling to think about what you do when playing.

you know, i have been thinking. theres a front-page-of-the-reddit thread right now speculating that this patch is directly paving the way for the next xpac. and elite specs are advertised as huuuuugely changing class mechanics, and one of the complaints about scrapper is that it actually doesnt do anything to the toolbelt. why? well, turrets had to be usable, and with no/different toolbelt, there was no detonating turrets. now there is, and all utilities will be entirely usable in the absence of the toolbelt (or rather, perhaps, in the presence of shatters/virtues/attunements/etc instead of a toolbelt). so while turrets are moved from one unacceptable state to another equally unacceptable state, this new state allows holosmith to be something scrapper couldnt be at the time and was complained about not being.

insanemaniac.2456:

Obtena.7952:

insanemaniac.2456:

drop healing turret late in the might stack. the fire field will be older and you’ll still blast might, and if you don’t suck at spamming you might even be able to kill your turret before it drops the field.

I don’t see how this is an issue. you know game mechanics right coro. you know blasts go by field age right.

Facts matter little to people that don’t like change. Be careful before presenting facts gets you labeled a troll.

I would urge people to think about the changes before crying wolf. I mean, the bottom line here is that this is simply a matter of relearning timing and playing smarter. I know that won’t appeal to people that just want to faceroll to victory but in all honestly, there is no argument that makes sense for supporting facerolling to victory. Claiming this is ruins healing turrets in WvW because of field overlay is a proclamation of being unwilling to think about what you do when playing.

you know, i have been thinking. theres a front-page-of-the-reddit thread right now speculating that this patch is directly paving the way for the next xpac. and elite specs are advertised as huuuuugely changing class mechanics, and one of the complaints about scrapper is that it actually doesnt do anything to the toolbelt. why? well, turrets had to be usable, and with no/different toolbelt, there was no detonating turrets. now there is, and all utilities will be entirely usable in the absence of the toolbelt (or rather, perhaps, in the presence of shatters/virtues/attunements/etc instead of a toolbelt). so while turrets are moved from one unacceptable state to another equally unacceptable state, this new state allows holosmith to be something scrapper couldnt be at the time and was complained about not being.

The way you described it, for some reason I imagined Toolbelt skills being replaced with little dots similar to Mesmer. Instead of illusions, we get holograms that have various, more complex than attack/shatter, abilities. Perhaps akin to Function Gyro in that they can revive allies or, maybe even mimic our own skill rotations for a brief period. Like say I Elixir Gun 5 → 4, my hologram does the same?

I have no idea, lol. Just felt like saying what this comment made me thing :P.

yeah to me the name holosmith really evokes a technological adaptation of mesmer too. I don’t know what to expect but I hope it’s cool, and now turrets won’t get in the way of it radically changing engi gameplay. but I hope it doesn’t rely on ai…

insanemaniac.2456:

you know, i have been thinking. theres a front-page-of-the-reddit thread right now speculating that this patch is directly paving the way for the next xpac. and elite specs are advertised as huuuuugely changing class mechanics, and one of the complaints about scrapper is that it actually doesnt do anything to the toolbelt. why? well, turrets had to be usable, and with no/different toolbelt, there was no detonating turrets. now there is, and all utilities will be entirely usable in the absence of the toolbelt (or rather, perhaps, in the presence of shatters/virtues/attunements/etc instead of a toolbelt). so while turrets are moved from one unacceptable state to another equally unacceptable state, this new state allows holosmith to be something scrapper couldnt be at the time and was complained about not being.

There is one little problem and it’s called medkit. Its toolbelt skill is the healing skill for the player. The most important skill from that set. They’d make it even more obsolete if they removed the toolbelt. I still hope that they will change the mechanics drastically so whatever (and noone uses medkit anyway)

leviathan.2148:

insanemaniac.2456:

you know, i have been thinking. theres a front-page-of-the-reddit thread right now speculating that this patch is directly paving the way for the next xpac. and elite specs are advertised as huuuuugely changing class mechanics, and one of the complaints about scrapper is that it actually doesnt do anything to the toolbelt. why? well, turrets had to be usable, and with no/different toolbelt, there was no detonating turrets. now there is, and all utilities will be entirely usable in the absence of the toolbelt (or rather, perhaps, in the presence of shatters/virtues/attunements/etc instead of a toolbelt). so while turrets are moved from one unacceptable state to another equally unacceptable state, this new state allows holosmith to be something scrapper couldnt be at the time and was complained about not being.

There is one little problem and it’s called medkit. Its toolbelt skill is the healing skill for the player. The most important skill from that set. They’d make it even more obsolete if they removed the toolbelt. I still hope that they will change the mechanics drastically so whatever (and noone uses medkit anyway)

yeah

insanemaniac.2456:

hmm well they’ll have to overhaul med kit if holosmith abandons the toolbelt cuz it would be simply unusable without its main self heal right

another thread

there should still be 1 (or 2) more balance patch before the xpac

insanemaniac.2456:

there should still be 1 (or 2) more balance patch before the xpac

Should. Definitely. The game needs them. But we can only hope now because we don’t know.