Guild Wars 2

I have to ask what is the posstbility of scrapper getting a new mechanic ?

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I’ll be checking what we can do on the AI side to help the appropriate gyros keep closer to you – this feedback and that rocket charge felt erratic are high on my list for today and tomorrow as modifying animation and AI can take a lot more work than other changes.

I trust that you’re going to do your best on this one, but I have serious doubts that anyone’s best could be enough. AI is just notoriously buggy for this purpose, and I really can’t imagine it being good enough. I mean, if it were possible then why wouldn’t it have worked well enough in beta? I think you really just need to scrap the AI on most of the Gyros and just hard lock them to the player’s anchor, 1:1 movement, no independent thought. I move 300 left, it moves 300 left in the exact same instant. I jump, it jumps, like a costume affix, not like a minipet.

Hammer quirks:
‘#2 and #4 skill on hammer seems to be queued abilities, meaning that the autoattack has to finish before it can proceed. Ideally I’d want to see that #2 and #4 has highest priority since its a reactive defence. It does feel sluggish when the auto has to finish.

’#3 does only give its leap finisher effect when the each of the leap lands in a field, as opposed to just pass through a field. This leads to less successful leap finishers overall.

‘#4 does seem to block more than it should at times – I’ve noticed ‘block’ messages up to a 3/4:th of a second after the skill was finished. Not entirely sure what causes it (lag?) since the channeling of the effect has by then definitely ended. It’s nice, but I wonder if it shouldn’t be reflected on the tooltip if so.

‘#2 whirl finisher seems entirely pointless since it does only produce one projectile. Ideally I’d want to see more projectiles, because that low an amount of projectiles is not useful enough to warrant concious decision to use it for that in a field.

‘#3 is in general a bit of a loose canon. At times it simply doesn’t hit the target, but I’m grateful you made the collision detection generous enough that it usually does connect its hit however. There are some edge cases though where you just veer off in another direction however.

Traits:
My honest opinion is that the traits are not interesting enough for an open world / PvE oriented player like myself. Super Speed and Stability sources are so scarce and unreliable in duration, and many times enemies in the open world simply do not attack fast enough or move around enough that stability and super speed feels like it has a place. I can however appreciate the Juggernaut synergy, but that’s really where my appreciation for this trait line ends. The Function Gyro is also a mostly unnoticeable mechanic unless players around you are downed, so its not that impactful for general play. I do like it however, and use it any time I am able to.

However I want something that feels fun, noticeable, and worthwhile for PvE play that defines the Scrapper a bit better in that area of the game. Right now I consider the traits a net loss, but a worthwhile one to get access to that sweet hammer. E.g. Impact Savant increases the stun duration on three skills by a nearly insignificant amount. Its not defining for the Scrapper and not noticeable.

Utilities:
Bluntly put they are not useful enough for me. The toolbelts are fun and I found myself enjoying the mobile water field in particular (seriously I think you should maybe reflect if fields are movable in the tooltips since this is now a staple to the combo system?). However, when I came to my senses, the Healing Turret is simply the better option.

I have the highest hopes for the Shredder Gyro for condition builds and its unique mechanical effect, but its lacklustre in its current implementation. I hold no interest in the Purge Gyro, Sneak Gyro and Blast Gyro (this is a less reliable version of Throw Mine!). I have hopes for the Medic Gyro, as it can be activated instantly for a good heal that you can rely on. The sheer cooldown, dysfunctional passive AI heal effect, and no condition cleanse however makes it a non-option for me in its current iteration.

The cooldowns needs to be lowered overall for all gyros, and according to engineer’s playstyle I believe detonating a gyro could be a blast finisher too. I would love if some gyros were brought back to the drawing board as targetable effects, just to avoid relying on AI pathfinding which rarely works out.

I have faith you can make improvements, so I wish you luck on tweaking it. It’s a hard task to adapt something to so many areas of the game, and I’m sure I’m ignorant to many perks regarding the specialization in e.g. raiding. But right now, I feel Scrapper stands to be improved before it becomes great.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Thanks for the solid feedback and spotting some unintended behaviors that I’ll be going over and modifying or changing, including things like the hammer autoattack aftercasts.

I’ll be checking what we can do on the AI side to help the appropriate gyros keep closer to you – this feedback and that rocket charge felt erratic are high on my list for today and tomorrow as modifying animation and AI can take a lot more work than other changes.

I’ll also thread in as many more easily implementable tweaks and bugfixes as I can (to several things like rocket charge being affected by movement-affecting boons and conditions). I’ll review gyro durations/recharge start times as well.

Please, Irenio, don’t forget about the F-Gyro mechanic. In my opinion is the only aspect of the Scrapper than CAN’T be fixed just by making adjustments.

It needs flavor, it needs to stand out, it needs usability, it needs to have impact. As it is now, it is just a weak gimmick. It HAS to be reinvented.

Andrige.5609:

…

1. does only give its leap finisher effect when the each of the leap lands in a field, as opposed to just pass through a field. This leads to less successful leap finishers overall.
   …

I noticed I wasn’t getting leap finisher effects as consistently as I thought I should be. If you are sure this is the case please posts in the Scrapper Bugs thread as Irenio is looking there for misbehaving skills!

Please make invigorating speed also proc with super speed. It’s very hard to get swiftness with the scrapper without streamlined kits and heavy armor exploit, only once in a while with a lightning field and a finisher.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Thanks for the solid feedback and spotting some unintended behaviors that I’ll be going over and modifying or changing, including things like the hammer autoattack aftercasts.

I’ll be checking what we can do on the AI side to help the appropriate gyros keep closer to you – this feedback and that rocket charge felt erratic are high on my list for today and tomorrow as modifying animation and AI can take a lot more work than other changes.

I’ll also thread in as many more easily implementable tweaks and bugfixes as I can (to several things like rocket charge being affected by movement-affecting boons and conditions). I’ll review gyro durations/recharge start times as well.

Is anything going to be done about the function gyro? As it is now, after several PvP games, it only proved useful one time. By comparison, it was a nuisance several times, forcing me to hit the button twice in order to be certain of the stomp. It’s really irritating that a downed person can kill it with their #1 skill before it can even finish its stomp, and when rezzing a teammate it usually gets junked by AoE/cleave before it can do much. Honestly, it should be a toggle setting and have a 15 second ICD, max.

I fear they will not have enough time to correct all the bugs, and that unlike the other specs like the chrono, we will not see any change in traits/skills/f gyro, apart from number tweaks, despite solid feedbacks. I hope I’m wrong…

Are.1326:

Hammer AA is a bit on the slow side, tool kit already fills this role. #2 and #4 feels like the activate a bit slot (unresponsive), might just be the lag. Wosh #3 was a skill cycle so we don’t jump off ledges all the time.

It’s faster than guardian hammer auto attack so I think you should be happy with its speed considering hammer attacks are suppose to be slower. As well as the might upkeep on it as well with the auto attacks, i’d say its in a good place.

merchantchuck.4875:

Are.1326:

Hammer AA is a bit on the slow side, tool kit already fills this role. #2 and #4 feels like the activate a bit slot (unresponsive), might just be the lag. Wosh #3 was a skill cycle so we don’t jump off ledges all the time.

It’s faster than guardian hammer auto attack so I think you should be happy with its speed considering hammer attacks are suppose to be slower.

Comparable damage, (slightly) lower speed…no protection or light field. You can compare one dimension all you want, but overall scrapper’s hammer auto attack is a little slow for what it does.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

merchantchuck.4875:

Are.1326:

Hammer AA is a bit on the slow side, tool kit already fills this role. #2 and #4 feels like the activate a bit slot (unresponsive), might just be the lag. Wosh #3 was a skill cycle so we don’t jump off ledges all the time.

It’s faster than guardian hammer auto attack so I think you should be happy with its speed considering hammer attacks are suppose to be slower.

Comparable damage, (slightly) lower speed…no protection or light field. You can compare one dimension all you want, but overall scrapper’s hammer auto attack is a little slow for what it does.

the protection and the light field are compensated for through the might upkeep and faster speed. I’m not trying to bash scrapper, I actually really like it but the hammer doesn’t need to be faster than it already is. Where it is now makes it more fun to use than the guardian hammer. Trying to pvp or wvw and actually getting off the last chain of the hammer auto (on guardian) is pretty low due to the speed of combat. if you do manage to get it off then the enemy simply moves out of it and moves out of range forcing you to go after them if you want to continue doing damage.

merchantchuck.4875:

Unholy Pillager.3791:

merchantchuck.4875:

Are.1326:

Hammer AA is a bit on the slow side, tool kit already fills this role. #2 and #4 feels like the activate a bit slot (unresponsive), might just be the lag. Wosh #3 was a skill cycle so we don’t jump off ledges all the time.

It’s faster than guardian hammer auto attack so I think you should be happy with its speed considering hammer attacks are suppose to be slower.

Comparable damage, (slightly) lower speed…no protection or light field. You can compare one dimension all you want, but overall scrapper’s hammer auto attack is a little slow for what it does.

the protection and the light field are compensated for through the might upkeep and faster speed. I’m not trying to bash scrapper, I actually really like it but the hammer doesn’t need to be faster than it already is. Where it is now makes it more fun to use than the guardian hammer. Trying to pvp or wvw and actually getting off the last chain of the hammer auto (on guardian) is pretty low due to the speed of combat. if you do manage to get it off then the enemy simply moves out of it and moves out of range forcing you to go after them if you want to continue doing damage.

First of all, the difference in speed is less drastic in practice than on paper, as there is something of an aftercast with each auto attack hit for engineer. Second, it’s AoE protection, which is more valuable than a couple of stacks of might on a profession that can already stack might pretty well. I’m not saying that it’s bad, I’m just saying that a slight reduction of the aftercast would be welcome.

I wonder if the bunker gyro applies its boon to the function gyro. Its a lot just to defend a function gyro stomp or revive, but if it does apply, then….

My suggestion: Make the Hammer Auto Attack ranged.

Just the auto attack.

I know it’s a bit of a U-turn but it would make the Hammer much more usable .

(Also – pls fix Gyros: e.g. Sneak Gyro not keeping up with you and then going off to attack enemies. It’s like the code has been copied over from Ranger pets and the Sneak Gyro is on ‘Guard’ by default but needs to be toggled onto ‘Avoid Combat’)

Xyonon.3987:

Please make invigorating speed also proc with super speed. It’s very hard to get swiftness with the scrapper without streamlined kits and heavy armor exploit, only once in a while with a lightning field and a finisher.

We have streamlined kits/heavy armor exploit yes… but if your’e taking invig speed, then you also get a free elixir b use from minor trait. You can also take elixir b on top of that, or a swiftness proc rune on top of that. Pack being the most favored one. It’s not very hard for scrapper to get swiftness.

The Sneak Gyro is very slow to move. I could hardly walk forward without it falling behind.

My suggestion: Make the Hammer Auto Attack ranged.

Just the auto attack.

I think it’s fine that Hammer is melee. The nice thing about the Engi is that you can use kits to easily supplement your main weapon. I decided that I didn’t want to use the Stealth Gyro, so I ran with a mortar, and that gave me plenty of range options. If I wanted a different Elite, I could have found room for Grenades instead, or even Elixir Gun, which might work pretty well with Hammer.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Thanks for the solid feedback and spotting some unintended behaviors that I’ll be going over and modifying or changing, including things like the hammer autoattack aftercasts.

I’ll be checking what we can do on the AI side to help the appropriate gyros keep closer to you – this feedback and that rocket charge felt erratic are high on my list for today and tomorrow as modifying animation and AI can take a lot more work than other changes.

I’ll also thread in as many more easily implementable tweaks and bugfixes as I can (to several things like rocket charge being affected by movement-affecting boons and conditions). I’ll review gyro durations/recharge start times as well.

Thank you, any news about the core mechanic redesign? (Function Gyro)

Wait and see about the usefulness of the gyros and the true definition of a lockdown bruiser using scrapper’s traits.

With my unexperienced Engineer look at scrapper.

• Hammer 3 should have a larger hit radius per swing to negate swinging at nothing on the 2nd hit (animation looks great, keep it)
• Gyro’s is hard to track how long they are up and they seem to be up not long enough
  *Finish/rez gyro should have a buff when you have it available(unsure if you already get it or not)
• Stealth Gyro and other moving gyro’s movement pattern and ability to keep up irritates me.

Everything else looks great!

I didn’t expect to like the Scrapper much, since I never cared for using hammers on my Warrior or Guardian (don’t know why, just didn’t like it). But I really enjoyed running around on an Engineer with a hammer.

I don’t know what to add that hasn’t already been said. The hammer is fun. Gyros need some tweaks, but I liked them too. I may wind up playing my Engineer more in Hot.

Chaba.5410:

Video that highlights the animation delays with [Rocket Charge] on the hammer in WvW. Players with swiftness are almost able to outrun the leap. Compare my toon position with players around me. Compare at 35 seconds with [Rocket Boots]. This negates the leap as both a tag catch-up utility and utility to leap to enemy players running away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C1dhS07hYs

Yeah it is very unfortunate that the skill doesn’t do anything for the profession as far as movement speed is concerned. In my opinion it gives the hammer extremely limited value if we cannot use it as a gap closer or gap creator like other professions melee weapons do. This is my single largest complaint with the hammer.

so i was a bit too busy playing the kitten out of scrapper to post feedback during the beta event but now that its over ill write up a bit on it.

hmm.. hammer to start:
overall i really love the feel of it. its a lot more aoe than rifle. i find myself never autoing due to overly short 130 range, 3 target cap, subpar damage, and meh additional effect. i miss my rifle autos occasionally simply because theyre 1200 range, but thats a good thing, because im making the choice to have only ground targeted long range and its a fine choice to have to make.

3 and 4 feel unreliable defensively, because there are strange uncontrollable gaps in the evades and the shield doesnt immediately block and it can be hard to advantageously use a frontal-arc-only block. a lot of people are complaining about 3 because it seems to send them in a random direction often, but i realized quickly that the 1st leap is in the direction im facing and the 2nd and 3rd are at my target. the 2nd doesnt lose momentum when it reaches my target, and the 3rd does. i actually really like that functionality. it feels a little quirky, but its extremely aggressive and it adds an element of being able to parse the fight and motion quicker than my opponent because i know what to expect. however in terms of being a mobility skill, i found myself always cancelling the aftercast / 3rd hit while travelling and thats an annoyance id rather not deal with especially since rocket boots and jump shot dont require doing so. and of course, for 4 the range simply feels too short. the energy shield appears in front of you at about 240 range, and having to be at 130 range to get the hits feels yucky (even tho its listed to be 170, it definitely doesnt feel like that either).

5 and 2 are great dps and great situationals, however… hmm.. i dont like that with “skilled” play i tend to overwrite my stun with daze (5→3), which unlocks an enemys movement. it feels bad, but i suppose that would be entirely op if it were fixed somehow to not feel so bad. and 2… well… the duration on the reflect feels very forgiving, but like 4 it feels like it doesnt start quickly enough, maybe im just not used to reacting with a reflect in this game and need to l2p (entirely possible). and the double whirl… whirls feel so inconsistent. idk where the bolts are going, idk how many bolts are even being generated. it feels like great dps and all that but even when i pay full attention to whats going on there i can never seem to understand quite whats happening. i feel like whirls should get a programming treatment similar to archdiviners first encounter (when he spins and shoots out confusing bolts that hit like a truck). any reduction of rng is a good thing. any reduction of inconsistency is a good thing. 2 alone should theoretically justify using hammer in a condi build, great extra utility at a small dps loss, but i feel like p/p is so much more consistent because of the way whirls (dont) work.

i dont mean for this to sound harsh or anything, cuz i really do love hammers feel, and i would definitely use it if it were released in its current form and i think it adds a lot to a build and is worth sacrificing a different spec to use it. it felt like a diamond after its been cut, but needs polishing.

gyros on the other hand, those dont feel like diamonds at all (except shredder, omg shredders a diamond but again whirls need consistency). others have described the problems with the ai already.

medic gyro needs its numbers approximately doubled. its simply too weak. if it dies immediately, it offers about 150 hp/sec. healing turret is at 333(325). elixir H is at 275 with hgh. even aed isnt theoretically bad hps, its use cases are simply flawed. if you double it (ish), itll be pretty good. it needs to be drastically increasing your hp/sec while its alive, so that an enemy feels the need to be targetting (and cleaving) it. it needs that so you have to make a tough choice to explode it vs having high sustain.

purge is just another elixir C. ok great, youre almost immune to condis… until it goes on cd. and its cd is long as hell. and C cant even be countered by another players braindead cleaving.

i didnt try bulwark or blast for more than a cursory glance because i felt like they didnt offer enough to compete with what i already had available. which means bad things for you as a designer, and im sure this thread is full of ideas for improvements.

sneak gyro was pretty good, but the fact that it reveals me upon death because the game says im the one dealing a hit instead of the gyro is a pretty big flaw. the reveal felt really good. i immensely enjoyed it after years of being unable to respond to an enemy abusing stealth (lock on aside, another excellent counter, but partially tainted by competition with streamlined kits).

function gyro feels janky. first, when im next to a downed enemy, ive gotta double tap f to start my own stomp, and thats a bad thing because it takes significant time for me to parse if f-gyro is available or not (prolly an l2p issue from not being used to it yet). second, my stomp is faster. third, i need a hotkey for “target nearest ally, prioritizing downed” because the time it takes for me to click on the person is entirely ridiculous and makes f-gyro terrible for that functionality. fourth, it doesnt use my finishers (but i herd sumwhurr it prolly will but just didnt for this weekend!).

shredder… i have few words. i love it. i think it suffers from the inconsistency of whirls. but i love it. it took the place of grenades in my sinister build for a while in fractal 50 and i didnt miss nades. that means its in a good place. right?

finally, the traits:
minors…
decisive renown is an adept for every other class (guard/mes major, thief minor)… i can understand why it was placed as minor because of the thief one, but it doesnt give revive speed it even has an icd and that feels meh.

impact savant needs to affect dazes too at a minimum, if not also knockdowns/floats (the other ccs that dont move you). stuns only just doesnt cut it, incoming or outgoing. using it in combination with melandru runes doesnt feel good enough to dedicate both a runeset and a spec to being able to skip on stunbreaks. dazes are actually quite a bit more common than stuns so impact savant actually does nothing most of the times you get cc’ed or toss out ccs.

adepts
recovery matrix is awesome and really goes a long way to wean me off of alchemy. stab core is not awesome because of how janky f-gyro is and how little of the time its actually possible to use f-gyro (could be l2p in my case, i got bad at pvp cuz i havent played it much in the past few months, but in wvw its so unreliable that i would never choose it over recovery matrix). shocking speed is limited by the icd imo. i didnt heavily test a lightning field oriented build because gyros felt bad. i wouldnt take it without also taking a gyro, because hammer 5 simply is not enough lightning to make this worth using and i want to blast fire or water typically (and the opportunity cost of blasting lightning isnt w0rth).

masters
love em all

grandmasters
adaptive armor is great. prolly too great. final salvo looks good to me but i just dont see myself using it over adaptive armor without taking at least 2 gyros, and i dont see myself taking 2+ gyros in their current state. perfectly weighted… the stab is short. too short. this trait needs something. damage is k, but boring. the combo of damage and the additional effect doesnt feel build defining.

Andrige.5609:

Hammer quirks:
‘#2 and #4 skill on hammer seems to be queued abilities, meaning that the autoattack has to finish before it can proceed. Ideally I’d want to see that #2 and #4 has highest priority since its a reactive defence. It does feel sluggish when the auto has to finish.

’#3 does only give its leap finisher effect when the each of the leap lands in a field, as opposed to just pass through a field. This leads to less successful leap finishers overall.

‘#4 does seem to block more than it should at times – I’ve noticed ‘block’ messages up to a 3/4:th of a second after the skill was finished. Not entirely sure what causes it (lag?) since the channeling of the effect has by then definitely ended. It’s nice, but I wonder if it shouldn’t be reflected on the tooltip if so.

‘#2 whirl finisher seems entirely pointless since it does only produce one projectile. Ideally I’d want to see more projectiles, because that low an amount of projectiles is not useful enough to warrant concious decision to use it for that in a field.

‘#3 is in general a bit of a loose canon. At times it simply doesn’t hit the target, but I’m grateful you made the collision detection generous enough that it usually does connect its hit however. There are some edge cases though where you just veer off in another direction however.

Just want to echo this, was trying to play with the hammer and while on paper it’s awesome the delays and clunkiness was disappointing. The 3 skill I actually missed the 2nd hit quite often because it would launch me away from the target instead of into them again. That’s not right. I understand and agree that it looks cool when you’re just going off all wild and jumping all over the place but functionally it’s a nightmare.

merchantchuck.4875:

It’s faster than guardian hammer auto attack so I think you should be happy with its speed considering hammer attacks are suppose to be slower. As well as the might upkeep on it as well with the auto attacks, i’d say its in a good place.

Hammer attacks are not “suppose” to by anything specific, no weapons are, Reveant, for example, uses Hammers as a Range weapon.
Instead of compearing it to a different class with a different theme and skill set, we should compear it to other Basic Attacks in the same proffesion. In this case, tool kit already fills a role of slow heavy attacks.

Also, 2 of the other 4 hammer abilities are reactive short durration counters (Hammer #2 and #4), you want to be able to use them reactivly but that is not possible if you get locked into a slow basic attack. Basic attacks should be able to fill the room between abilities, but you can’t time them if the Hammer have suchs a slow aftercast.

This does not matter anymore however, since Huang have already said that he will look into the unintended long aftercast on Hammer.

Wonder how much better gyros would be if they were only damaged by direct damage rather than any damage that happens to be around?

I WANT to like gyros, I really do, but the AI is off, they die too fast, they don’t really perform as advertised, they die too fast, the CD on them is too long, and lastly they die too fast.

I was okay with hammer, but yeah the hammer #3 missed more often than not.

Ohoni.6057:

My suggestion: Make the Hammer Auto Attack ranged.

Just the auto attack.

I think it’s fine that Hammer is melee. The nice thing about the Engi is that you can use kits to easily supplement your main weapon. I decided that I didn’t want to use the Stealth Gyro, so I ran with a mortar, and that gave me plenty of range options. If I wanted a different Elite, I could have found room for Grenades instead, or even Elixir Gun, which might work pretty well with Hammer.

Yeah you’re right, all those kits give a ranged option. However you’re kind of having to shoe-horn one into your build or have NO ranged at all. Having Hammer AA as ranged would allow much more flexibility in which utilities are used. Currently with no ranged on Hammer you get into the brawl, use your Rocket Charge offensively etc, now hammer skill are on CD so:
1). you need to distance yourself from the action: utilities need to allow disengage, maybe slick shoes – this means you need a ranged option when you get out of melee range.

or

2). you stay in melee range. This means you need to use your utility slots to keep you alive – for e.g. maybe Tool Kit, Bulwark Gyro, Elixir S, Elite skill

Now – if Hammer Auto Attack was ranged you would not be forced to EITHER spec for staying in melee OR kiting out when needed. You would have much more flexibility over which utilities to take. Dipping in and out of combat and being still somewhat relevant from ranged would make the playstyle of the Scrapper much more interesting and rewarding imo. 1200 range on that one skill would really make the Hammer.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Ohoni.6057:

My suggestion: Make the Hammer Auto Attack ranged.

Just the auto attack.

I think it’s fine that Hammer is melee. The nice thing about the Engi is that you can use kits to easily supplement your main weapon. I decided that I didn’t want to use the Stealth Gyro, so I ran with a mortar, and that gave me plenty of range options. If I wanted a different Elite, I could have found room for Grenades instead, or even Elixir Gun, which might work pretty well with Hammer.

Yeah you’re right, all those kits give a ranged option. However you’re kind of having to shoe-horn one into your build or have NO ranged at all. Having Hammer AA as ranged would allow much more flexibility in which utilities are used. Currently with no ranged on Hammer you get into the brawl, use your Rocket Charge offensively etc, now hammer skill are on CD so:
1). you need to distance yourself from the action: utilities need to allow disengage, maybe slick shoes – this means you need a ranged option when you get out of melee range.

or

2). you stay in melee range. This means you need to use your utility slots to keep you alive – for e.g. maybe Tool Kit, Bulwark Gyro, Elixir S, Elite skill

Now – if Hammer Auto Attack was ranged you would not be forced to EITHER spec for staying in melee OR kiting out when needed. You would have much more flexibility over which utilities to take. Dipping in and out of combat and being still somewhat relevant from ranged would make the playstyle of the Scrapper much more interesting and rewarding imo. 1200 range on that one skill would really make the Hammer.

I disagree. For one thing, HoT is introducing a whole lot more projectile hate, and I don’t want the hammer to be affected by that. For another, the whole ‘melee range powerhouse’ theme can be pretty gratifying, and it is certainly good in PvP. If they boosted the range, they would undoubtedly nerf it in some other way. That is not an ideal outcome.

Dear Irenio,

Well well well. I am VERY impressed with the Scrapper. In the last month I’ve started really getting into engineer. So the reveal on the Scrapper had me excited and a bit nervous. However, the minute I started playing Scrapper I absolutely fell in love. So much so that it may easily oust my thief Daredevil as my main character!

Here’s my thoughts from extensive Scrapper play in WvW this weekend.

Hammer
I really enjoyed every single hammer skill. The feel of the weapon and the incredible damage are fantastic good fun. It took me a bit to get used to using #3, #4 and combing off of #5. But I got the hang of it.

My only concern is hammer #3.

• the bouncing was a bit erratic, as already mentioned
• but it was only an issue when I had something targeted. open world movement worked as expected — it propelled me forward in the direction I was facing in an approximate straight line.
• when I had a target the bouncing often missed, which was disappointing. and which ended up with less damage out put.
• but when targeting someone in a group, the wild bouncing was wonderful for hitting multiple targets
• I would prefer this be a blast finisher. This would synergize better with the healing gyro’s tool belt skill for group utility and I would cut down on the feeling that I need to run rocket boots in order to give out group heals. Not to mention make it more competitive with Healing Turret. Edit 10/6/15: Nevermind! I would much rather it stay a leap for the Dazing Strike! But, I still wish the Scrapper had a blast finisher somewhere in the skills!

Gyros
I used every one of them at the start and found them to be great fun. I too noticed the AI problem of them not following or targeting well. Eventually, I ended up settling on the Healing Gyro and the Shredder Gyro.

1. Function Gyro: I totally frickin LOVED this gyro. I’d yell out in teamspeak “Gyro Stomp!” to let my team mates know I had it covered. Sadly….it’s so gosh darn slow. I can stomp faster than it can! lol It should stomp as fast as the Daredevil elite, in my opinion. Also, I never once noticed it giving me a rally option for my allies.
2. Medic Gyro: LOVE the tool belt skill. Mainly used this gyro for that. Once the follow AI is improved, the gyro itself will be more useful. Healing was good on it. But Healing Turret is stronger in WvW, with the healing AND condi cleanse. Unfortunately, I prefer using the gyro more, as I don’t like the turret being stationary.
3. Bulwark Gyro: used it a little bit when solo pulling camps. Eventually stopped using it because I wanted other skills on my bar.
4. Blast Gyro: This was good extra damage, sadly hampered by the AI issues. Wish it would daze or stun when it detonates at it’s target.
5. Shredder Gyro: I used this the most for the whirl finisher for condi cleanse off my mortar kit light field and since it stayed in one place. Ironic actually. lol
6. Sneak Gyro: A super cool gyro. But it is hampered by the follow AI. The plus side of this gyro was that you could dip in and out of it’s circle in order to get de-targeted by an enemy mid-fight. But for moving the group around in stealth, it wasn’t so great. I swapped back to Mortar Kit and/or Supply Crate eventually.
7. Gyro Self-Destructs: I didn’t use these much after the first 30 minutes. Mostly would forget about them. I guess because they all do the same thing. What if they each did the daze plus something else thematically tied to that gyro? For example: Purge Gyro clearing more condis, Blast Gyro causing cripple, Shredder Gyro causing a blast finisher, Bulwark popping protection or retal, Medic popping regen of better yet a condi cleanse. Then these would be more compelling to use and easy to remember. Adds more depth to the gyro. Oh and another thing — would be great if gyros cause their destruct effect whether I trigger their self-destruct or they are killed.

Traits
I honestly loved every single trait. And this line synergized SO WELL with all the other trait lines. So much so that I had great trouble picking which other 2 to pair it with, because everything fit so well. This is excellent design that will allow for quite a variety of great builds: uber bunker scrapper, hybrid bunker damage, support, CC, everything.

All in all a super fun time and I am excited to experiment with different builds when it comes out!

I vote Scrapper “Best Darn Elite Spec Design for Core Game Classes!”

Thanks for such great work on our behalf!

as a wvw the gyro are an instant death (zvz)wish there was a benefit if it died quickly that is given to you or something applied to enemy.
also like its been stated many times gyros did not keep up also elite gyro would follow the enemy which is odd.
purge gyro for only 2 conditions with that cd felt lack luster if it cured all conditions it would be very similar to elixir so why not transfer 1 condition each time it cleanses you?
bulwark is nice but like all the gyros it died too quickly also the range of the absorbtion is huge would take damage from allies and instantly die when i would have rather it only protected me. so either more hp or smaller range.
also i wish the water field did a little healing. the healing gyro was nice for the first heal after the first big heal hardly healed me since it wasnt keeping up and the cd for it hurt a lot. in battles facing a necro i just couldnt sustain myself while the necro had no problem. 30s cd for all gyros felt too long overall maybe a trait to reduce cd or something
also the destruction of the gyros i wish it were instant not like i was actually destroying them often either but would be nice to like a mesmer shatter stack the explosions which is risky considering you need them but could help burst down an enemy is you time it right. the animation for the explosion of gyro sucked

Please make Stabilization Core working for ALL Gyros !
It will give much more importance to the gyros as choise instead of the much better KITS.
And will give to the line al lot more synergy with Mass Momentum and Perfectly Weighted…..giveing US another choise of stabilty source that is not Juggernout !!!

Maybe tuneing down a bit the duration of the Stability..

Scrapper
Tried to combo with Napalam (fire field) + Rocket Charge several times but could not receive might when leaping through the field. I notice you receive might when you land, not when you leap. I’m not sure if this is intentional or not.

Update:
Someone pointed out to me that Rocket Charge is a Leap Finisher not a blast. I’m not sure how I received might (sometimes).

Was super pumped when i heard we were getting hammer but i was super disappointed after trying it. I find Skill #2 and #4 pointless. Would much rather more CC abilities rather than what we got. I assume #3 will get fixed but it’s pointless working as it is now.

The Scrapper line and the hammer offer nothing to my condi build (which i love) so i spose i’ll just be staying a regualr old Engineer

Ohoni.6057:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I’ll be checking what we can do on the AI side to help the appropriate gyros keep closer to you – this feedback and that rocket charge felt erratic are high on my list for today and tomorrow as modifying animation and AI can take a lot more work than other changes.

I trust that you’re going to do your best on this one, but I have serious doubts that anyone’s best could be enough. AI is just notoriously buggy for this purpose, and I really can’t imagine it being good enough. I mean, if it were possible then why wouldn’t it have worked well enough in beta? I think you really just need to scrap the AI on most of the Gyros and just hard lock them to the player’s anchor, 1:1 movement, no independent thought. I move 300 left, it moves 300 left in the exact same instant. I jump, it jumps, like a costume affix, not like a minipet.

I think a lot of us would prefer that, but most likely the best answer we can hope Irenio can give is somewhere between “Not a chance in hell” and “Not until after Christmas.”

Veneratio.1980:

Was super pumped when i heard we were getting hammer but i was super disappointed after trying it. I find Skill #2 and #4 pointless. Would much rather more CC abilities rather than what we got. I assume #3 will get fixed but it’s pointless working as it is now.

The Scrapper line and the hammer offer nothing to my condi build (which i love) so i spose i’ll just be staying a regualr old Engineer

If you wanted, you could perhaps go firearms/alchemy/scrapper, camp flamethrower out of combat to build up might stacks, and use adaptive armor to boost your own survivability. The only real sacrifices would be movement speed and maybe mechanized deployment, but in exchange you get might stacking and toughness/lower incoming condition damage. That might be a worthwhile trade.

Just wanted to say that the function gyro was very hard to use to res downed team-mates in teamfights, if there was a lot of AI, or if there were a bunch of particle effects. It is pretty crucial that some way to select team-mates without clicking them be implemented.

Veneratio.1980:

Was super pumped when i heard we were getting hammer but i was super disappointed after trying it. I find Skill #2 and #4 pointless. Would much rather more CC abilities rather than what we got. I assume #3 will get fixed but it’s pointless working as it is now.

The Scrapper line and the hammer offer nothing to my condi build (which i love) so i spose i’ll just be staying a regualr old Engineer

Well, there is the poison field with Purge Gyro’s Toolbelt, and most of the whirl combos you’d get with Shredder inflict conditions.

But I agree, needs more condi love, as it is Scrapper is a pure straight damage spec with practically nothing to give for condition build. I’d like to see something like Shredder inflicting bleed, or Blast Gyro inflicting burns (or perhaps counting as an explosive for things like Shrapnel)

Underwhelming. Gyros are not tuned to keep up with the speed of gameplay engineer excels at. They do cool stuff, just not in the area you need or at the speed say HT can be dropped, procced, and detonated for additional effect. Hammer is a hammer *yawn. Watered down mix of tool kit and guardian animations.

The only cool new thing I really like is the offset 2nd- leap of hammer #3. No, not a troll. This skill can be used to whip around a target 3 times, screwing with their orientation and throwing their ground targeting to the wind. It damages, and procs any fields you interact with i.e. drop and proc HT, hammer 3 in a tight circuit around enemy and drop their hp while you end up overhealing, detonat HT for maximum heals. Just takes a quick mouse movement, but once you get it, you find excuses to do it. Only build I found enjoyable in the slightest was 16-22 stacks of might-full elixirs across the board, basically a rampage warrior at that point and it’s a good time.

Yeah you’re right, all those kits give a ranged option. However you’re kind of having to shoe-horn one into your build or have NO ranged at all.

Sure, but that’s true for a lot of classes. Many of them don’t even have options. An Ele that goes D/D can’t attack outside of 900 range, and even then poorly beyond about 600. Any other class that picks two melee weapons is left with very little to do at range. An Ele can slot any one of four utility slots, and get any sort of artillery or skirmish range attack they might want, with five different options at that range, at least one of which on zero cooldown. It’s not a bad deal, really, and I think all of Engi’s hammer attacks are great the way they are.

Technically, they even do have a range attack built into the Hammer, the #5 skill has 1200 range, and that’s a better ranged attack than most weapons get.

Just thought of a new idea for Scrapper’s Function Gyro, currently the “mechanic”.

My idea is to make the Function Gyro something that’s always out and hovers close to the Scrapper when not being commanded. It can still do the same things as it does currently, finish enemies and revive allies, but when it’s done it comes back to you. Increase the health quite a bit, mainly because in its current form I’ve had downed players kill it in 1v1’s. Also when the Scrapper were to go down, as long as the F Gyro is still up, it will begin to immediately res the Scrapper unless CC’d or killed. If it’s killed, only then will it go on a 15 second CD (I think 30 seconds is too long, this is the class mechanic).

Some of the traits could be reworked into buffing the Function Gyro, like Stabilization Core, it would work the same way it does now, but the stability would only pop up on you and the gyro when you command it to finish or revive a player. The Gyro when commanded will shadowstep to the position of the player to finish/revive (1200 range).

This is just what I think another good idea might be for this “mechanic”.

Arimas.3492:

Just thought of a new idea for Scrapper’s Function Gyro, currently the “mechanic”.

My idea is to make the Function Gyro something that’s always out and hovers close to the Scrapper when not being commanded. It can still do the same things as it does currently, finish enemies and revive allies, but when it’s done it comes back to you. Increase the health quite a bit, mainly because in its current form I’ve had downed players kill it in 1v1’s. Also when the Scrapper were to go down, as long as the F Gyro is still up, it will begin to immediately res the Scrapper unless CC’d or killed. If it’s killed, only then will it go on a 15 second CD (I think 30 seconds is too long, this is the class mechanic).

Some of the traits could be reworked into buffing the Function Gyro, like Stabilization Core, it would work the same way it does now, but the stability would only pop up on you and the gyro when you command it to finish or revive a player. The Gyro when commanded will shadowstep to the position of the player to finish/revive (1200 range).

This is just what I think another good idea might be for this “mechanic”.

I’m all for a function gyro that rez the scrapper when he’s downed. I like the idea of the gyro always following you, but it would suffer the same problems than pets (bad AI, we can see that with gyros in general), and it would probably die too quickly in teamfights/zerg. But I’d love a WORKING function gyro that’s always up unless destroyed which would give some passive buff (like boons: Stability… Or a lesser variant of bulwark gyro with damage reduction ) and rez, it would force the enemies to make a choice, who should they attack first ? But again, I think it would not work smoothly in real teamfights. Well, it’s not like the current function gyro works well in teamfight anyway.

Honestly I don’t write much, as most was said.
- Hammer had too long aftercasts for my taste (while I loved most of it skills – even #3)
- Gyros are worse than I thought they will be. Even bulwark had very limited use, and still was too squishy (not to mention that reflect was way to short).
- Traits are good (gm minor is kind of waste if it not affect dazes).
- function Gyro is quite function-less

General feel was, that this specialisation is very self sufficient, and quite bruiser-y. But the biggest downside is that it don’t offers much to the group that other classes cannot do better (vunerability – base grenadier doing it similary well, and reaper in shroud will do it better, super speed – is meh).
It is not that specialisation is bad (I don’t see it in PvE/Raiding meta)… But it don’t offers anything that I want to build my enginner for.
It simply don’t fit my character fantasy. And what probably the biggest fail of this specialisation, is that I probably won’t be spending any skill points on it. Skill points are limited resource, and specialisation is very expensive to spend my skill points I only can hope that for next specialisation we won’t have to wait until next expansion.

I miss something for condition engis. I love my p/p engi but I find nothing new for me

Let’s be realistic. It’s only 17 days until launch. No way will they create now a new viable mechanics so close to release. Ah well, fingers crossed for next spec… :/

as always for engis we must live with it. Look at the buglist no other class has so many bugs and for a so long time. After HoT release even more bugs will come only for scrapper cause of no chance to test it, only 1 BWE is so a stupid decision i cannot understand it.

I’m all for a function gyro that rez the scrapper when he’s downed. I like the idea of the gyro always following you, but it would suffer the same problems than pets (bad AI, we can see that with gyros in general), and it would probably die too quickly in teamfights/zerg.

I also like the idea of the Function Gyro always being out, and it wouldn’t be an issue, just make it indestructible when not “on the job,” and use mini-pet coding to allow it to follow you. It would basically be a pure flavor thing, so it wouldn’t have to interact with game balance at all. Now, when it’s actively doing something it can be messed with.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Thanks for the solid feedback and spotting some unintended behaviors that I’ll be going over and modifying or changing, including things like the hammer autoattack aftercasts.

I’ll be checking what we can do on the AI side to help the appropriate gyros keep closer to you – this feedback and that rocket charge felt erratic are high on my list for today and tomorrow as modifying animation and AI can take a lot more work than other changes.

I’ll also thread in as many more easily implementable tweaks and bugfixes as I can (to several things like rocket charge being affected by movement-affecting boons and conditions). I’ll review gyro durations/recharge start times as well.

Glad to hear this. However…I kinda like the erratic nature of Rocket Charge and I honestly think that if players get a bit more experience using it, they’ll get used to its mechanics and will be able to predict where the leap will go to.

Scrapper over all feels rushed compared to the trailer.

The gryos should follow you around like they do in the trailer for HoT until you call or active them to go and do the task you want! The need to keep up with you and not have dumb path finding . AoE’s destroy them instantly and their ‘practical’ use is just laughable. Make a Fuel system a real thing not just some a timed life span.

Traits Really need to be adjusted to have more synergy with other things the engi already has I feel like I can’t mix up any of my build it has to be “this” why can’t it feel more like reaper insanely enjoyable.

The Hammer is lack luster i feel like by the time i get a field down and combo in it , i don’t even get to enjoy that Irenio hyped " super speed". When you finish you maybe able to take one or 2 steps , no real game changer so kinda dumb. The 3 Skill is terrible, i would like to see the trailer version of it with the twirling knock down and blast finishers.

There is soo much i wanna say but i feel that if its not in the “most talked bout” it won’t be heard so i left what i majorly thought

Haralin.1473:

as always for engis we must live with it. Look at the buglist no other class has so many bugs and for a so long time. After HoT release even more bugs will come only for scrapper cause of no chance to test it, only 1 BWE is so a stupid decision i cannot understand it.

Necromancers. I think they still hold the record.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Haralin.1473:

as always for engis we must live with it. Look at the buglist no other class has so many bugs and for a so long time. After HoT release even more bugs will come only for scrapper cause of no chance to test it, only 1 BWE is so a stupid decision i cannot understand it.

Necromancers. I think they still hold the record.

Really? Necro doesnt feel that buggy to me…but then again i only got about 50 hours on it, maybe i just dont see things a pro necro player does