Build Critique Requested.
Anyone tried it out?
It looks like an interesting build, but hammer and Rabid amulet don’t really work together. I suggest you try it either with p/p (or p/s if you really, really want a block and a reflect), or you change your amulet to something like Sage (with Intelligence sigil for IP) and keep your hammer.
I’ll try the build for myself when I find the time.
Oh hey thanks. The hammer is used to reflect and block and CC. When combined with the firearms trait and swapping sigil (doom) and bleed sigil, it also applies condi. Plus with the blocks you can stand facing something like a hundread blades while they stand in your wall of fire or your mortar field. Hammer is what gives this ability to have some point presence and makes it more hybrid in function.
The evades on the rocket jump are nice, and that rocket jump can leap combo the fields I have. I really feel I get the most bruiser capability out of keeping the hammer which does some damage and lets the more sinister condis do their work.
You can do things like apply poison with EG while hitting the flame thrower tool belt for several burn bonuses, then hit the CC field of the hammer, drop the flame wall on them while they are stunned then jump in the field still.
Plus hammer does decent damage with no power aside from the 20 might I’m ususally rocking. However if you want to YOLO you can try converting the thoughness to power with hammer trait in themiddle choosing the bottom option. I find I like the little bit of bonus regen more though.
(edited by shion.2084)
I really find it more fun than the current gyro build. Very exciting and some chance for mass group take downs when you hit your mortar AOE and thunder clap right. I had debated giving up exlix b for something like rocket boots (to apply more burn) or a potion S. But I like the stability and fury procs many more condis which are the silent killer of this build.
Where it bites is when the other team figures out who’s hosing them and they fresh air, guardian CC push pull you through traps and warrior you in a CC focus. Your pretty much toast unless you saved the toolbelt elix for just the right time, or you use your stun break and acid bomb jump. I guess this is why some like having the trait for automatic S drinking.
(edited by shion.2084)
I like your hybrid approuch, but I’m no expert to really give you feedback.
“Only problem with the Engineer is
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
I would almost say this is pretty heavily condi leaning bias for a hybrid. I used to do a hybrid when they had the merc rune. This one relies on the 1750 base condi damag, plus might stack, plus whatever adaptive armour contributes to push condi high enough to matter. And it has a consistent means of potentially applying condi beyond what’s expected for each hit due to firearms. It doesn’t work as well with tools/inventions because of the lack of bleed apply, the lack of IP and lack of pinpoint.
Anyway try it, adjust your play a bit to be more in and out, then tell me what you think. I feel it is a somewhat viable alternative role and playstyle to the gyro.
The actual physical damage does take advantage of the fact that bleeding targets are hit for more damage, that you stack might and hammer has pretty good coefficients for the hits to matter a little bit.
The really sneaky part is most folks don’t realize what is killing them. They are so used to Marauder or Paladin that they focus on the moderate damage from the hammer but are downed by the seeming fluff of the condis.
(edited by shion.2084)
First of all, I want to list up the stuff you aim for, so I can refer to those points at every necessary situation:
- PvP
- Conditions (major damage output
- AoE
- survival
- speed
Now let us have a look at your setup.
1. Weapon
The traditional configuration for a condition-build focuses on at least one if not two pistols. As those are excellent condition sources. As you have selected the hammer for felxibility and cc-options, this decision is totally fine. But I want to mention, for this case you could also consider a rifle. It allows swift movement, good cc and (refering to your last post) offers an alternative source for bleeding, which you already want to use as main condition damage source. The vulnerability source might be lower, compared to the hammer. But you have the advantage of not being in melee range to your targets. In terms of swiftness and flexibility, that is a point you may consider wiseley. The farer you can be away from your target, the easier you can escape and the less aditional effort you have to put into your movement (e.g. sacrificing utility-skill-slots, or colldown of the heal-skill).
2. Healskill
I’m going to focus the elexir-issue in the discussion of your trait lines in detail. I have my reasons not to rely on them. If you do not want to follow the traditional 101 engineer, I would suggest you the medic gyro. As you already unlocked the scrapper trait-line, why not use the gyro. It supports you with a direct heal, HOT and a quite useful toolbelt skill which can be used for secondary healing (blast-combos) or for defensive issues. The AED is something I would only consider as an option in 1v1 battles against vicious lethal classes which have the ability to cut you down within a second.
3. Utility
For condition-damage, the selected kits are ok. The flamethrower has some specail abilities which I gonna focus at the discussion of the traits. Depending on your desired combat position, the granade kit (for ranged) and the bomb kit (for melee) could also be nice additions, which you could use instead of that elexir. Normal builds, with direct damage output tend to use those kits more frequently, but there is no basic rule which says you are not allowed to use them for conditons as well. It depends a lot on the situation and what type of enemy you face.
4. Elite
It is a good decision, AoE and condition wise, but you waste some potential with the traits. The toolbelt might look a little useless at first. It can be helpful to piolt weakened or fleeing enemies towards your team-members. Or forcing them to waste their endurance, before the next encounter. Although not very impressive, damage wise, the visuals do a great job in alarming your opponents.
-
Now let us have a look at your traits.
Firearms (minor)
Let’s check your arms again. You have a hammer (melee range). You have a flamethrower (the farest skills have a maximum range of 600). And you have an elexir gun (with a range set between 450 and 900 – which is not much). In the first tier of Firearms, you have the trait “High Caliber”. That increases your ciritical hit chance by 10% as long as you are within a range of 240 to your target. Especially if you want to keep the hammer, I would go for that trait. Also the flamethrower usually forces players to nearly melee their targets. Your earth-sigil on the hammer only activates when you land a critical hit. So while using the hammer or flamethrower, your cirt-chance should be as high as possible. Even if you consider changing your weapon to pistols or rifle, I would stick to that trait. None of the pistol conditions will be any better with a 50% increase of the duration. Two are only for deception purpose, which require a duration of 0.1 seconds to be effective – in terms of cc.
Firearms (major)
The Pinpoint Distribution is an excellent choice. The effect of No Scope is little and the cooldown of 10 seconds with a duration of only 4 seconds, makes this trait more of a gamble. And usually the odds are never in our favor. I would not count on that. With a cirt chance above 50%, granted by the minor trait suggestion, you have a good output of bleeding stacks, especially when using the flamethrower-autoattack or the elexir-gun Fumigate. The Skilled Marksman, even if you consider to use a rifle, should be skiped for direct dps builds.
Firearms (master)
On the first view, I would guess you plan to keep your opponent burning. Which is impossible if you only use the flamethrower autoattack. However even with the Incendiary Powder trait this is not possible. If you combine the toolbelt skill/buff as well, you get that effect. But only on a single target and only for a very short duration of time. The damage increase you get from Flame Jet on buring enemies is power based.
What is the problem with the Juggernaut? It is a common and nowadays even kinda stereotype engineer-trait. But the reason for this is simple, it works. Even if you do not use the Mass Momentum (Scrapper), you get a good ammount of might stacks and a permanent single stability stack. Especially the stability, although it is only one tiny little stack, makes a huge difference and you a hard to catch player, even if you have no speedboosts at all. Also might-stacks improve both direct and condition damage.
Alchemy
Before I start in this trait-line, I want to make this absolutely clear. I would not use this traitline, as long as I focus on kit using. I’ll show you what you can improve in that traitline, to get improved results. But at the end I will show you an alternative traitline as well.
Alchemy (minor)
The engineer is a moving class. A standing engineer is a dead engineer.
Protection Injection is your backup, for the bad case of you getting hit by a cc-skill. Some of those skills have long durations and your protection barely lasts three seconds. And we have no clue how much HP you have left, once you are disabled. We also have no clue how many enemies will go after you. Personally I would focus on avoiding that situation at all costs. Before the great nerf, engineers had permanent vigor. It was a pain and imbalanced, but we were nearly unreachable with nearly infinite endurance. A cc-skill you can dodge, you dont need additional defenses for. The trait in question is called Invigorating Speed, which applies vigor to you once you apply swiftness. Especially in combat, you can never have enough endurance.
Alchemy (major)
Refering to your Projection Injection decision, here is a real life-saver. Self-Regulating Defenses. It has a huge cooldown, but this thing really prevents you from death. It does not matter how much HP you have left, it does not matter how many enemies chase you. And it does not matter if you are disabled. Once you reach the limit, you are invincible and can run wherever you want. If you don’t want to waste your trait on an effect with 60 seconds cooldown, your Backpack Regenerator is the best choice.
Alchemy (master)
If you stick to the elexirs in your skill-setup, there is hardly anything to say against HGH.
Scrapper (minor)
Recovery Matrix is a good choice.
Scrapper (major)
Mass Momentum is designed for direct damage output, but once again might stacks also increase condition damage. Especially If you plan to use the flamethrower for the most time, this trait is worth another thought. The Rapid Regeneration, is not a bad choice either. But I think the ammount of HP healed is a little low, even if combined with the trait in Alchemy.
Scrapper (master)
It is difficult to say something against the Adaptive Armor, especially in PvP, where you don’t have to fear aggro. The Applied Force however is an option worth to think about, especially if you plan to use the flamethrower with both the Juggernaut and the Mass Momentum. Even if you spend 0 effort into boon extension. As long as you are equiped with the flamethrower (for more than a few seconds), you will have the required 10 stacks of might permanently. In that case you constantly have 1/3 of your time quickness = more hits = more crits.
As promised above, I gonna explain an alternative traitline to your Alchemy, the Tools. Honestly I have no clue what is meta atm. I create my builds as I need them and I focus only on the needs and requirements for the situation. Some of the things I say might be part of a common/meta configuration. If that is the case, I’m deeply sorry.
Tools (minor)
The passive already grants you vigor upon the use of any toolbelt skill = more endurance. Reactive Lenses is my kind of a backup system. It is technically a combination of Self Regulating Defenses and Projection Injection, with a lower cooldown and fury instead of protection. Simply you get hit by a cc, walk away like nothing happened and have a free stack of fury with you. Could be worse.
Tools (major)
Streamlines Kits. A build which uses kits, should use that trait. As well as a build with a flamethrower should use the Juggernaut. For me it is a normal as using HB on a warrior who has equiped a Greatsword. It works, so why should you ignore it on purpose?
A thing not many people see with this trait has to do with the spell, mentioned in the tooltip. That spell is always the same for each kit but in two cases it is extremely powerful. On the flamethrower you only get a fire-aura which lasts barely a few seconds and causes only one stack of burning on an attacking opponent. The more important spells are caused by the elexir gun and the motar kit. The Elexir Gun causes Slik Shoes, drops of glue as footprints for a few seconds. The motar kit is even more powerful, as it causes a big spot of goo. That goo is the same, you can steal as a thief. It causes several damage dealing conditions on impact and should not be underestimated by condition builds.
Tools (master)
Adrenal Implant is the the frosting of your cake. Another huge improvement to your endurance regeneration, which makes you swift and hard to catch.
Sigils & Runes
That is something people shall select on their own. The only thing I want to mention for the second weapon sigil. If you have trouble escaping your opponents, you could replace the sigil of doom with a sigil of hydromancy. It causes an AoE chill and alows you to get rid of your opponents if you need to.
EDIT: I forgot a few things to mention. Like the alternatives for the elexir utility skill.
Tool Kit
Depending on your prefered playstyle. If you tend to be in closer range, the Tool Kit could also be nice option. While being a little underestimated, it is a great source for conditions to weaken/slow your opponents, offers the ability to block and drag enemies. In addition it supplies you with an aoe-bleed attack.
Thumper Turret
If you plan to use combos frequently, this thing might be an option as well. When you are away of your enemy, it offers 2, in close combat 3 blastfinishers. If you have quick hands, a good mouse setup or maybe some macros, you can deploy it, overcharget it, detonate it and use the toolbelt in a fraction of a second. Used on the previous mentioned toolbelt-waterfield of the medic gyro, you will get at least 3k+ instant area heal for yourselves and your allies. The overcharge, works as disabling, which allows you to get rid of your opponents or inteerupt their attacks. The toolbelt-skill, same as the one from the elexir gun is a stun-breaker. But in addition, in case you have not equiped the flamethrower or not using the Juggernaut, you will have another stack of stability for one second. Now how can that be of a use? Nowadays many classes not just use one, but several cc-skills at once. As some of use have permanent stability sources, they want to make sure you are disabled for good. The one second stability-stack is simply for that case. Prevents unwanted surprises.
Flame Turret
Considering your focus on AoE and conditions and your attempt to use burning as a damage delivering source, you could try this one as well. While mostly underestimated, it supports you with a burn source, an additional target the enemy has to focus on and the toolbelt skill offers you an additional fire field.
Utility Goggles
Facing classes with a huge variety of cc-skills, you can also use this as a main-skill instead of/in addition to the the trait mentioned above (Tools minor). The toolbelt is a huge vulnerability source and even gives you an edge against stealth classes.
At last I’d like to recommend you reading through the codition-table of Xyonon. The pictures, not the builds. This offers you a good inspiration of what skills you can focus on during the combat, which deal damage and which are just for the looks.
dulfy-effect: Knowledge is power. But without fame, you are just a freak.
(edited by HnRkLnXqZ.1870)
First of all, I want to list up the stuff you aim for, so I can refer to those points at every necessary situation:
- PvP
- Conditions (major damage output
- AoE
- survival
- speedNow let us have a look at your setup.
1. Weapon
The traditional configuration for a condition-build focuses on at least one if not two pistols. As those are excellent condition sources. As you have selected the hammer for felxibility and cc-options, this decision is totally fine. But I want to mention, for this case you could also consider a rifle. It allows swift movement, good cc and (refering to your last post) offers an alternative source for bleeding, which you already want to use as main condition damage source. The vulnerability source might be lower, compared to the hammer. But you have the advantage of not being in melee range to your targets. In terms of swiftness and flexibility, that is a point you may consider wiseley. The farer you can be away from your target, the easier you can escape and the less aditional effort you have to put into your movement (e.g. sacrificing utility-skill-slots, or colldown of the heal-skill).2. Healskill
I’m going to focus the elexir-issue in the discussion of your trait lines in detail. I have my reasons not to rely on them. If you do not want to follow the traditional 101 engineer, I would suggest you the medic gyro. As you already unlocked the scrapper trait-line, why not use the gyro. It supports you with a direct heal, HOT and a quite useful toolbelt skill which can be used for secondary healing (blast-combos) or for defensive issues. The AED is something I would only consider as an option in 1v1 battles against vicious lethal classes which have the ability to cut you down within a second.3. Utility
For condition-damage, the selected kits are ok. The flamethrower has some specail abilities which I gonna focus at the discussion of the traits. Depending on your desired combat position, the granade kit (for ranged) and the bomb kit (for melee) could also be nice additions, which you could use instead of that elexir. Normal builds, with direct damage output tend to use those kits more frequently, but there is no basic rule which says you are not allowed to use them for conditons as well. It depends a lot on the situation and what type of enemy you face.4. Elite
It is a good decision, AoE and condition wise, but you waste some potential with the traits. The toolbelt might look a little useless at first. It can be helpful to piolt weakened or fleeing enemies towards your team-members. Or forcing them to waste their endurance, before the next encounter. Although not very impressive, damage wise, the visuals do a great job in alarming your opponents.-
Now let us have a look at your traits.
Firearms (minor)
Let’s check your arms again. You have a hammer (melee range). You have a flamethrower (the farest skills have a maximum range of 600). And you have an elexir gun (with a range set between 450 and 900 – which is not much). In the first tier of Firearms, you have the trait “High Caliber”. That increases your ciritical hit chance by 10% as long as you are within a range of 240 to your target. Especially if you want to keep the hammer, I would go for that trait. Also the flamethrower usually forces players to nearly melee their targets. Your earth-sigil on the hammer only activates when you land a critical hit. So while using the hammer or flamethrower, your cirt-chance should be as high as possible. Even if you consider changing your weapon to pistols or rifle, I would stick to that trait. None of the pistol conditions will be any better with a 50% increase of the duration. Two are only for deception purpose, which require a duration of 0.1 seconds to be effective – in terms of cc.Firearms (major)
The Pinpoint Distribution is an excellent choice. The effect of No Scope is little and the cooldown of 10 seconds with a duration of only 4 seconds, makes this trait more of a gamble. And usually the odds are never in our favor. I would not count on that. With a cirt chance above 50%, granted by the minor trait suggestion, you have a good output of bleeding stacks, especially when using the flamethrower-autoattack or the elexir-gun Fumigate. The Skilled Marksman, even if you consider to use a rifle, should be skiped for direct dps builds.Firearms (master)
On the first view, I would guess you plan to keep your opponent burning. Which is impossible if you only use the flamethrower autoattack. However even with the Incendiary Powder trait this is not possible. If you combine the toolbelt skill/buff as well, you get that effect. But only on a single target and only for a very short duration of time. The damage increase you get from Flame Jet on buring enemies is power based.What is the problem with the Juggernaut? It is a common and nowadays even kinda stereotype engineer-trait. But the reason for this is simple, it works. Even if you do not use the Mass Momentum (Scrapper), you get a good ammount of might stacks and a permanent single stability stack. Especially the stability, although it is only one tiny little stack, makes a huge difference and you a hard to catch player, even if you have no speedboosts at all. Also might-stacks improve both direct and condition damage.
Alchemy
Before I start in this trait-line, I want to make this absolutely clear. I would not use this traitline, as long as I focus on kit using. I’ll show you what you can improve in that traitline, to get improved results. But at the end I will show you an alternative traitline as well.Alchemy (minor)
The engineer is a moving class. A standing engineer is a dead engineer.
Protection Injection is your backup, for the bad case of you getting hit by a cc-skill. Some of those skills have long durations and your protection barely lasts three seconds. And we have no clue how much HP you have left, once you are disabled. We also have no clue how many enemies will go after you. Personally I would focus on avoiding that situation at all costs. Before the great nerf, engineers had permanent vigor. It was a pain and imbalanced, but we were nearly unreachable with nearly infinite endurance. A cc-skill you can dodge, you dont need additional defenses for. The trait in question is called Invigorating Speed, which applies vigor to you once you apply swiftness. Especially in combat, you can never have enough endurance.Alchemy (major)
Refering to your Projection Injection decision, here is a real life-saver. Self-Regulating Defenses. It has a huge cooldown, but this thing really prevents you from death. It does not matter how much HP you have left, it does not matter how many enemies chase you. And it does not matter if you are disabled. Once you reach the limit, you are invincible and can run wherever you want. If you don’t want to waste your trait on an effect with 60 seconds cooldown, your Backpack Regenerator is the best choice.Alchemy (master)
If you stick to the elexirs in your skill-setup, there is hardly anything to say against HGH.Scrapper (minor)
Recovery Matrix is a good choice.Scrapper (major)
Mass Momentum is designed for direct damage output, but once again might stacks also increase condition damage. Especially If you plan to use the flamethrower for the most time, this trait is worth another thought. The Rapid Regeneration, is not a bad choice either. But I think the ammount of HP healed is a little low, even if combined with the trait in Alchemy.Scrapper (master)
It is difficult to say something against the Adaptive Armor, especially in PvP, where you don’t have to fear aggro. The Applied Force however is an option worth to think about, especially if you plan to use the flamethrower with both the Juggernaut and the Mass Momentum. In that case you constantly have 1/3 of your time quickness = more hits = more crits.As promised above, I gonna explain an alternative traitline to your Alchemy, the Tools. Honestly I have no clue what is meta atm. I create my builds as I need them and I focus only on the needs and requirements for the situation. Some of the things I say might be part of a common/meta configuration. If that is the case, I’m deeply sorry.
Tools (minor)
The passive already grants you vigor upon the use of any toolbelt skill = more endurance. Reactive Lenses is my kind of a backup system. It is technically a combination of Self Regulating Defenses and Projection Injection, with a lower cooldown and fury instead of protection. Simply you get hit by a cc, walk away like nothing happened and have a free stack of fury with you. Could be worse.Tools (major)
Streamlines Kits. A build which uses kits, should use that trait. As well as a build with a flamethrower should use the Juggernaut. For me it is a normal as using HB on a warrior who has equiped a Greatsword. It works, so why should you ignore it on purpose?A thing not many people see with this trait has to do with the spell, mentioned in the tooltip. That spell is always the same for each kit but in two cases it is extremely powerful. On the flamethrower you only get a fire-aura which lasts barely a few seconds and causes only one stack of burning on an attacking opponent. The more important spells are caused by the elexir gun and the motar kit. The Elexir Gun causes Slik Shoes, drops of glue as footprints for a few seconds. The motar kit is even more powerful, as it causes a big spot of goo. That goo is the same, you can steal as a thief. It causes several damage dealing conditions on impact and should not be underestimated by condition builds.
Tools (master)
Adrenal Implant is the the frosting of your cake. Another huge improvement to your endurance regeneration, which makes you swift and hard to catch.Sigils & Runes
That is something people shall select on their own. The only thing I want to mention for the second weapon sigil. If you have trouble escaping your opponents, you could replace the sigil of doom with a sigil of hydromancy. It causes an AoE chill and alows you to get rid of your opponents if you need to.
Woah. The build you describe, with tools and not alchemy, is basically the one I run most of the time. Only I prefer rifle over hammer.
“Only problem with the Engineer is
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
Wow thank you for the feedback…. so to chunk this up a bit… you write
“Firearms (minor)
Let’s check your arms again. You have a hammer (melee range). You have a flamethrower (the farest skills have a maximum range of 600). And you have an elexir gun (with a range set between 450 and 900 – which is not much). In the first tier of Firearms, you have the trait “High Caliber”. That increases your ciritical hit chance by 10% as long as you are within a range of 240 to your target. Especially if you want to keep the hammer, I would go for that trait. Also the flamethrower usually forces players to nearly melee their targets. Your earth-sigil on the hammer only activates when you land a critical hit. So while using the hammer or flamethrower, your cirt-chance should be as high as possible. Even if you consider changing your weapon to pistols or rifle, I would stick to that trait. None of the pistol conditions will be any better with a 50% increase of the duration. Two are only for deception purpose, which require a duration of 0.1 seconds to be effective – in terms of cc”
But Heavy Armour gives me access to swift which combines with my regen, and swift helps me get in and out and generally has combat boosting that isn’t just reflected in stats. When an opponent is bleeding and I have fury from elix B I’m looking at 80% crit rate I think? Even without the range one… plus vuln application and effectiveness synergy with my off point opening mortar barage with the heavy armour exploit. It’s a tough choice.
“hat is the problem with the Juggernaut? It is a common and nowadays even kinda stereotype engineer-trait. But the reason for this is simple, it works. Even if you do not use the Mass Momentum (Scrapper), you get a good ammount of might stacks and a permanent single stability stack. Especially the stability, although it is only one tiny little stack, makes a huge difference and you a hard to catch player, even if you have no speedboosts at all. Also might-stacks improve both direct and condition damage.”
Another good point. I like IP because burn duration, and the ability to initially apply a bunch of stacks when combined with FT tool belt and the flame wall that I drop on folks when they’re stunned. Additionally that every 10 second application comes up handy in more drawn out 1 v 1 context where I don’t find my lack of stability an issue and the extra damage forces them to burn a cleanse (at which point I spread out my burning). Now I could get might from Jug… but I have so many elixirs and might application from HGH that I seldom really make use of it. The real appeal of Jug to me would be the stability, but I find you have to modify your play style to camp flame a bit to get good use of that and I am constantly rotating so find in practical terms it doesn’t work that well for my style.
Well maybe if I try the purge gyro I can give up on Alchemy. But with such a low vitality I really fear conditions… and with the condi warriors out there….. shudder. I find the protection injection is useful for pesky theives and surviving their surprise bursts. IF I’m immediately down a lot in health I can pop the current elix H and then get protection stacking with the injection. Any thoughts on rocket shoes for the mobility and the burn?
I actually avoid exlix S because I find it unhelpful to not be able to know when it will trigger, and if a condi burst is what put me down I’m a dead man. Also in 1v1 I seldom lose but can go sub 25% at this time I’d rather not be giving up point cap and giving them time to get their stuff off cool down. I pretty much continuously have condis applying and want to keep sustained pressure and S interupts that. For the group scenarios where they all choose me for the trarget and they don’t apply condis… it would be amazing I grant you.
Will give tools a shot tonight, and make up for might loss with Jug. See how that does for me. Feel I will miss the IP though.