Guild Wars 2

tigrawahi.2694:

I like the Op idea but i will go with something easier to implement.
My sugestion:

When you equip the scrapper elite trrait line ,a function gyro will deploy and circle around the scrapper,it can not be targeted or damaged until is not commanded to stomp or res,once it has done his job or its destroyed in the process it will go on a 10sec(?) cooldown before automaticaly redeploying it self around the scrapper.

This function gyro functnionality(:P) can be expanded via traits.
New 3 traits to replace the existing adept traits that are a little bland :

- Function cleansing : the function gyro peroidically removes conditions from you,when it explodes gives regeneration.

- Function velocity : recive a 25 % increase speed while function gyro is active,when it explodes gives swiftnes.

- Function empowerment : gain a 2% bonus damge for boon on you,when it explodes gives 3 stacks of might.

I think this is a simplier way to ad some functionality to a rather bland mechanic.

Not every Engineer will be using f-gyro often, if all the adept traits were only activated on f-gyro use there’d be riots m8.

Chaith.8256:

I think it’s going to be a really sad day when I’m playing Celestial Scrapper Rifle and nobody can tell I’m not an Engineer

This is my worst fear as well, and with only a little over 2 weeks until release I doubt we’re going to see any major changes. It’s a real shame that Scrapper was only available for one Beta weekend and so late in the development process.

Almost every other Elite specialisation gets access to some kind of ability that changes how their class is played, as well as a new weapon type. For the Scrapper it’s as if they bundled both of these things into the Hammer and the Function Gyro was more of an afterthought.

Many of the suggestions here are excellent; the Function Gyro needs more… functionality (cool graphics wouldn’t hurt either!). Given the short time-scale, and as much as it sucks, I think I’d prefer them to overhaul it after the HoT release to avoid some horrible band-aid fix.

I like you ideas, but one simple (relative) thing that Anet can add based on your suggestion is a simple animation for function gyros.

It would be wonderful if when function gyro was available it hovered around you as an animation (not an actual unit).

And with all these fancy new UI elements with flames on berserk mode, the celestial avatar, the revenants energy bar and so on, would it really hurt to have a bar indicating the status of our function gyro? For this gyro to be useful in multitasking situations it would be helpful to know the hp of your gyro while its reviving someone off screen by looking at a bar over your toolbelt skills or something. Maybe even show the active action so that you know how far it is in the stomping process/if it have been interrupted etc.

On a sidenote, it would be interesting to be able to send out your function gyro to refuel other gyros, sort of like a tanker plane. And thus the fuel would actually be fuel…

Maybe it could even be used to repair some structures? Oh well, time to stop dreaming and be realistic.

miriforst.1290:

And with all these fancy new UI elements with flames on berserk mode, the celestial avatar, the revenants energy bar and so on, would it really hurt to have a bar indicating the status of our function gyro? For this gyro to be useful in multitasking situations it would be helpful to know the hp of your gyro while its reviving someone off screen by looking at a bar over your toolbelt skills or something. Maybe even show the active action so that you know how far it is in the stomping process/if it have been interrupted etc.

On a sidenote, it would be interesting to be able to send out your function gyro to refuel other gyros, sort of like a tanker plane. And thus the fuel would actually be fuel…

Maybe it could even be used to repair some structures? Oh well, time to stop dreaming and be realistic.

Really, yes, all that’s needed is for the Scrapper design to sell the f-gyro better. A ui, slightly increased depth, mechanically, and it can work. The exclusive class mechanic needs to be desirable and a little flashy.

Chaith.8256:

miriforst.1290:

And with all these fancy new UI elements with flames on berserk mode, the celestial avatar, the revenants energy bar and so on, would it really hurt to have a bar indicating the status of our function gyro? For this gyro to be useful in multitasking situations it would be helpful to know the hp of your gyro while its reviving someone off screen by looking at a bar over your toolbelt skills or something. Maybe even show the active action so that you know how far it is in the stomping process/if it have been interrupted etc.

On a sidenote, it would be interesting to be able to send out your function gyro to refuel other gyros, sort of like a tanker plane. And thus the fuel would actually be fuel…

Maybe it could even be used to repair some structures? Oh well, time to stop dreaming and be realistic.

Really, yes, all that’s needed is for the Scrapper design to sell the f-gyro better. A ui, slightly increased depth, mechanically, and it can work. The exclusive class mechanic needs to be desirable and a little flashy.

The fact that we are shown the availability of the gyro exclusively through a trait icon and that the skin is the only non unique gyro we have screams “we had another idea in mind about a fuel system for the gyros but then realized that it does not apply at all to scrappers who choose not to use a single gyro for various reasons so we threw together something at the last minute to work as an arbitrary mechanic to show off. Oh darn, we better apply a arbitrary max duration to the gyros now that we lack a fuel system as a limiter”.

Similarly how the druids glyphs interacts with the druids primary mechanic (changes functions) without leaving the druid mechanic unusable without glyphs, couldn’t the same be done with a fuel mechanic powering stomps/revives and gyros?
A scrapper who do not use any gyros or who choose not to refuel them got more fuel left for reviving and stomping (or whatever), and for an engineer using gyros it becomes a resource management game where you prioritize what gyros to extend.

And visually you could do amazing things with a engineer mechanic such as indicating recharges, fuel and health with gauges and similar instruments on your skill bar.

The ‘fuel’ systems people keep on clamoring for would be pretty lame.

Just because the elite lacks flavor does not mean that we should aim for the most simplistic mechanic we can think of.

miriforst.1290:

The fact that we are shown the availability of the gyro exclusively through a trait icon and that the skin is the only non unique gyro we have screams “we had another idea in mind about a fuel system for the gyros but then realized that it does not apply at all to scrappers who choose not to use a single gyro for various reasons so we threw together something at the last minute to work as an arbitrary mechanic to show off. Oh darn, we better apply a arbitrary max duration to the gyros now that we lack a fuel system as a limiter”.

Similarly how the druids glyphs interacts with the druids primary mechanic (changes functions) without leaving the druid mechanic unusable without glyphs, couldn’t the same be done with a fuel mechanic powering stomps/revives and gyros?
A scrapper who do not use any gyros or who choose not to refuel them got more fuel left for reviving and stomping (or whatever), and for an engineer using gyros it becomes a resource management game where you prioritize what gyros to extend.

And visually you could do amazing things with a engineer mechanic such as indicating recharges, fuel and health with gauges and similar instruments on your skill bar.

Yeah, the fuel system pretty much is just way to put a roleplay spin on the fact that Gyros have durations. The ‘fuel system’ was just offhandedly mentioned without any substance, kind of misleading, in fact.

My personal preference for Gyros were for them to be untargetable (invulnerable), live fast and wreck face as focal points, or extensions of the Engineer’s abilities.

lorddarkflare.9186:

The ‘fuel’ systems people keep on clamoring for would be pretty lame.

Just because the elite lacks flavor does not mean that we should aim for the most simplistic mechanic we can think of.

The fuel system people are clamoring for would be better than nothing, but both are settling more than I want to.

Interesting stuff on here. YOU GUYS ARE GIVING ME IDEAS!!!

During BWE 3 there was a thread on the pvp forum that bothered me a bit. I’m not entirely certain as I don’t play in NA but I think a group of “top tier” tourney players felt the scrapper was so over the top OP that the thread seemed fear mongering. They also wanted anet to tone the trait line down. I’m also not certain about the classes they main but I think it was a couple rangers and mesmer

I’m still irked by that.

cakeonroof.7385:

Interesting stuff on here. YOU GUYS ARE GIVING ME IDEAS!!!

During BWE 3 there was a thread on the pvp forum that bothered me a bit. I’m not entirely certain as I don’t play in NA but I think a group of “top tier” tourney players felt the scrapper was so over the top OP that the thread seemed fear mongering. They also wanted anet to tone the trait line down. I’m also not certain about the classes they main but I think it was a couple rangers and mesmer

I’m still irked by that.

The PvP Scrapper can be extremely tanky if desired.

It plays a kind of similar role to a stone heart D/D Elementalist, in practice. It’s often a safe, easy, 1v1 oriented point fighter.

Too early to tell if the Scrapper comes out on top in that role.

I’m excited to use Scrapper in teamfighter builds, to utilize fully the Function Gyro, which is useless 1v1.

With recent changes to Dragon Hunter’s F1, Thief dodges and Ele’s Rebound, I regained faith in rework of function gyro.

10 days to launch, Anet HQ must be in fire right now ^^

Miltek.2104:

With recent changes to Dragon Hunter’s F1, Thief dodges and Ele’s Rebound, I regained faith in rework of function gyro.

10 days to launch, Anet HQ must be in fire right now ^^

I’m not getting my hopes up. Considering the levels of polish in BWE3 and the fact the only response to scrapper feedback was “Thanks, we’ll think about it” (just look at the druid response), it’s been made very clear where scrapper is on their priority list. Hell, I’d be surprised if hammer 1 gets particles before release.

Daralii.8940:

Miltek.2104:

With recent changes to Dragon Hunter’s F1, Thief dodges and Ele’s Rebound, I regained faith in rework of function gyro.

10 days to launch, Anet HQ must be in fire right now ^^

I’m not getting my hopes up. Considering the levels of polish in BWE3 and the fact the only response to scrapper feedback was “Thanks, we’ll think about it” (just look at the druid response), it’s been made very clear where scrapper is on their priority list. Hell, I’d be surprised if hammer 1 gets particles before release.

One post does not a panic make.

Druid issues can be fixed with numbers. Function Gyro cannot.

Pessimism is warranted, but this board is getting downright cynical.

We are the engineers. Being cynical is part of how we kill things.

Clap, clap.
And Scrapper won’t have class mechanic on the launch.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Daralii.8940:

Miltek.2104:

With recent changes to Dragon Hunter’s F1, Thief dodges and Ele’s Rebound, I regained faith in rework of function gyro.

10 days to launch, Anet HQ must be in fire right now ^^

I’m not getting my hopes up. Considering the levels of polish in BWE3 and the fact the only response to scrapper feedback was “Thanks, we’ll think about it” (just look at the druid response), it’s been made very clear where scrapper is on their priority list. Hell, I’d be surprised if hammer 1 gets particles before release.

One post does not a panic make.

Druid issues can be fixed with numbers. Function Gyro cannot.

Pessimism is warranted, but this board is getting downright cynical.

Problem being that instead of fixing the issues now, since they wasted time, effort, and resources on MORE AI (WAHOO) now we have to wait a year or two before they finally cave in and admit it was a horrible mistake and change/fix it (just like how they eventually came to admit Scarlet was a mistake.)

Or maybe they will just never fix it and leave it as another category of dead skills like Turrets. Or even better: Maybe instead of being bad it’s just going to be annoying, passive, bunker-type “SIT ON THIS POINT ALL GAME AND DONT MOVE” gameplay just like the good turrets were.

It’s almost like as if it’s just a series of poorly designed skills that will never be truly balanced and will have to rely on cheese because it’s AI.

But hey, apparently we were supposed to get drones at launch and that got delayed because someone wanted a flamethrower, so I guess their argument will be “Well you were going to get it sooner or later anyways so take your medicine”

Miltek.2104:

Clap, clap.
And Scrapper won’t have class mechanic on the launch.

Yeah, so Irenio has made it clear that a post HoT alteration of the Scrapper mechanic is on the table, so, might as well continue discussion and keep it relevant.

NG main here.

And yeah it’s pretty cool a thread was started by a WTS champ on ideas for Scrapper gameplay.

BW3 felt way too short. The scrapper build I played had no gyros and used celestial ammy. It was pretty good with support and holding a point.

BUT I would like to incorporate gyros in my build and this thread has given me ideas.

I will make some bump post here, to keep discusion relevant.

After week of playing/testing Scrapper this post is even more true.
Whole Scrapper elite proffesion mechanics doesn’t give player any advantage in PvE or 1vX Scenarios – it’s useless there.

As a player you can use your “elite mechanics” after winning a PvP fight (putting enemy in downed state) or loosing (your ally get’s into downed state). This mechanics is purely useless when playing solo, especialy in sPvP.

Even worse is that we got a 3 Traits(Function Gyro, Stabilization Core, Decisive Renown) that are effecting only stomping or reviving, which is way to situational for class mechanics in all game-modes!

All what Function gyro needs is in-combat role, which will synergy with synergize with rest of scrapper’s trait-lines: Super Speed, Daze/Stun and Stability.

I’ve played through the entire HoT story on Scrapper. Function Gyro is just not noticeable at all, except for that red dot floating over my shoulder. Scrapper is all about that hammer.

:(

Don’t get me wrong, I’m enjoying the hammer a lot. I just feel like an engineer with a hammer rather than something else.

Chaith.8256:

Miltek.2104:

Clap, clap.
And Scrapper won’t have class mechanic on the launch.

Yeah, so Irenio has made it clear that a post HoT alteration of the Scrapper mechanic is on the table, so, might as well continue discussion and keep it relevant.

Can you point to where he has said this? I would love for this to be true.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

’allo fellow Engineers, -snip snip-

At this point we’re not going to be able to change the elite specialization mechanic very much. There are still going to be changes to it with the possibility for expansion of functionality post-launch.

Thanks. It seems like expansion of funtionality implies that it will be build upon rather than changed to something else.

Chaith.8256:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

’allo fellow Engineers, -snip snip-

At this point we’re not going to be able to change the elite specialization mechanic very much. There are still going to be changes to it with the possibility for expansion of functionality post-launch.

I am doubtful concerning a major change of the core function,of the trait Impact Savant and the 3 traits concerning rallying/stomping.

I would like Irenio to come here and state if there are plans for function gyro/elite spec mechanics rework. Not considerations, not possibility, not “nothing’s off the table”, I want him to confirm if he’s planning to work on it or is working on it or not. Please Irenio, be honest with us.

We still don’t have a dev’s answer to the 100% central tyria vs new maps completion bug.
I doubt we’ll get any answer about the elitespec mechanikittenil a year or so in the future.

So the map bug got fixed. Matybe there is hope?

Was there ever more information given about whether the “possibility” of F-gyro being expanded is actually coming true?

Ron Cordova.9824:

Was there ever more information given about whether the “possibility” of F-gyro being expanded is actually coming true?

No. No communication, no info.

Have the devs gone radio silence in general for class balance (to keep new meta theorycrafting from starting until balance patch/start of tourney?) or just engineer ignored?

It seems they ignore it at the moment, same in the WvW, they sold the expansion and made money, next dev comments in engineer forums will be, when the new expension comes and they need to sell it.

The idea of this thread is a great inspiration for the devs and i hope this idea gets on the devs table somehow.

Chaith, dunno if you’re still following this or brainstorming further, but I support anything to make (function) gyros feel less unsatisfying.

When I saw the trailer I was so excited and assumed that it would be something similar to what you’ve described here (I actually thought the “little orbiting robots” in the trailer would basically be engineer signets which granted a passive buff but could be activated to send the bot out to do something bigger— aka a signet).

I still think that’s exactly what the gyros should do, if you have them equipped, they zip around you, but I had hoped (again the dreams from watching the trailer) they’d be more party oriented e.g. heal gyro would be warrior signet’s passive with a much lower healing amount but pulsed out to nearby allies— basically in the style of engineer, taking mechanics (in this case signets) from a variety of different classes and putting a little engineer spin on them). Something similar to the snooze “+180 power” passive signets could be “+40 power to allies” with straight damage on the active, condi removal could be “remove one condi every x seconds from 1 ally nearby who has the most condis (possibly engi but not prioritized; keeps that RNG element anet seems to want engi to have)” with purge gyro (but not in AI form) on the active.

Ron Cordova.9824:

Chaith, dunno if you’re still following this or brainstorming further, but I support anything to make (function) gyros feel less unsatisfying.

When I saw the trailer I was so excited and assumed that it would be something similar to what you’ve described here (I actually thought the “little orbiting robots” in the trailer would basically be engineer signets which granted a passive buff but could be activated to send the bot out to do something bigger— aka a signet).

I still think that’s exactly what the gyros should do, if you have them equipped, they zip around you, but I had hoped (again the dreams from watching the trailer) they’d be more party oriented e.g. heal gyro would be warrior signet’s passive with a much lower healing amount but pulsed out to nearby allies— basically in the style of engineer, taking mechanics (in this case signets) from a variety of different classes and putting a little engineer spin on them). Something similar to the snooze “+180 power” passive signets could be “+40 power to allies” with straight damage on the active, condi removal could be “remove one condi every x seconds from 1 ally nearby who has the most condis (possibly engi but not prioritized; keeps that RNG element anet seems to want engi to have)” with purge gyro (but not in AI form) on the active.

Yes, I think any of the above would be suitable mechanic switch-ups to the current Scrapper minor traits (Function Gyro, Decisive Renown, and Impact Savant).

Function Gyro is very strong in certain situations in GW2, there’s just not something for everybody.

I like what F gyro can do currently, but as you said earlier in the thread, it’s so situational… I would love to see 1) multiple F gyros stacked as in OP, 2) passive benefit from keeping F gyros stacked up, and 3) a third reason to spend the F gyros other than rezzing/stomping— I am concerned about keybinding with that but maybe the F gyro expenditure could be built into a hammer skill (replace cooldown of one hammer skill— I would say the block but am open to others— with F gyro spend?).

Edit: I guess it would also be unfair to non-hammer-using scrappers to do that change. Maybe pistol 3 and rifle 5 could be integrated with F gyro spend as well?

Ron Cordova.9824:

Have the devs gone radio silence in general for class balance (to keep new meta theorycrafting from starting until balance patch/start of tourney?) or just engineer ignored?

No new balance patch before league start cause it starts before next patch.

I still, honestly, think that Gyros should be a passive skill with an active effect. Equip a gyro, have a mini-bot, much like the Function Gyro already is, following and/or orbiting the Engi while providing a passive benefits that are lost while the skils are on cooldown similar in style to Glyphs. This is actually what I had envisioned when I first saw the HoT scrapper in the teaser, not this janky implementation that, overall, feels very patchwork and weak.

As it is, I don’t like Gyros. Bulwark Gyro was great until the bug was fixed meaning it explodes almost the same instant it’s summoned.

I disagree with pretty much everything. The function gyro idea was interesting at first but its akin to warriors berserkers power, youre effectively punishing someone for using their class mechanic. Engis should not get access to slow because they are already pretty much kings of disabling conditions and cc already. Giving them slow would not be a balancing act. I do like the idea of being rewarded for ccing someone, but the only changes I agree with to Impact Savant are the complete ones 1,3, and 4.

Llethander.3972:

I still, honestly, think that Gyros should be a passive skill with an active effect. Equip a gyro, have a mini-bot, much like the Function Gyro already is, following and/or orbiting the Engi while providing a passive benefits that are lost while the skils are on cooldown similar in style to Glyphs. This is actually what I had envisioned when I first saw the HoT scrapper in the teaser, not this janky implementation that, overall, feels very patchwork and weak.

As it is, I don’t like Gyros. Bulwark Gyro was great until the bug was fixed meaning it explodes almost the same instant it’s summoned.

^this

I would love to play with them if this would be the case. No stupid AI please.

I seriously want gyro’s to work. I agree with the whole passive/active idea. You don’t even need to change the skill that much. Let’s imagine.

Medic Gyro.
Passive. Heals you for a small amount per tick.
Active. Heals you for a large amount. The Gyro then overcharges and begins to rapidly heal you and other others. Self-destructs at end of duration.

Blast Gyro.
Passive. Throws tiny bombs at your target periodically.
Active. Overcharge the Gyro sending it to a target. Dropping bombs on the way then self destructing.

Cleansing Gyro.
Passive. Remove a condition every 10 seconds
Active. Overcharge, removes all conditions, stunbreak, self destruct stun breaking and Cleansing nearby allies. Perhaps even giving conditions too.

Bulwark Gyro.
Passive. Either periodically give protection or permanent damage reduction like 10%
Active. Overcharges sending out a protective shield. The sheild takes X damage before breaking. Gyro self destructs on shield break/timer.

Shredder Gyro.
Passive. Increased movement speed.
Active. Unchanged.

Stealth Gyro.
Passive. Overall stat increase.
Active. Activates stealth field. Follows you.
Actives active. Instruct your Gyro to go to target location.

Very close to signets. Which I should point out, we don’t have. Currently the AI of the gyro’s is so stupid it’s cute. I tried to love the medic Gyro but it can’t heal it’s embarrassingly small heal unless you’re standing still. Blast Gyro gets confused by any obstacle and the stealth Gyro can’t keep up so all it does is tell the enemy which way you’re going before you even unstealth.

They’re a shambles. I. Hope they’re addressed.

I don’t have any new thoughts on this, it’s just still a really good idea.

This thread contains so many good ideas however engi seems ok in every mode, so I don’t think we will get any overhaul, only bugfixes :/

Why do you guys want to engies more passives? I seriously dont understand the logic here.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Why do you guys want to engies more passives? I seriously dont understand the logic here.

More? Engi is the only profession without sigils.

We don’t want passives, we want anything else than clunky AI. You just can’t fully rely on AI, because it’s stupid and unreliable. Besides, we want gyros and function gyro to be viable but they are mostly situational and gimmicky because of their AI.

leviathan means signets.

And signets, when designed well, are one of the best skill types. The passives help new players who aren’t great at the game still contribute even if they can’t piano rotate through all their skills, while the active abilities let more experienced players, who know when the best time to use each ability is, be effective.

Engineer has NO decision-making like that “is now a time where it’s WORTH IT to lose this passive effect?”; you’re always better off putting as many skills on cooldown as possible.