Honestly, I never used this trait except when I’m first new to the game.
Imo it’s pretty useless, because as long as people know about this trait of Engi’s, moment they see Engi disappeared after using an immobilize skill, they will just keep attacking that spot (something that I do too against Engi who think they will be safe with that simple invis).
Agree with Blizt. It’s fun to watch noobs try to figure out where you went, but anyone who knows the game well enough should know you haven’t gone anywhere. It makes you invisible, but what good is that when everyone knows where you are?
It should just remove the immobilize as it applies the stealth. Until then it’s more of a novelty used to laugh at people in WvW
It should just remove the immobilize as it applies the stealth. Until then it’s more of a novelty used to laugh at people in WvW
Cleaning Formula 409: “Throwing or consuming elixirs removes conditions from those affected.”
Let’s face it, if you’re stupid enough to use this without the appropriate traits, then yes you deserve to die. However, if you happen to combine this with traits like the one above you not only escape certain death but buy enough time to recoup/counter by extending that duration considerably, albeit with specific utility combos.
As Mnemesis has said, with a condition removal this trait is useful. It is also useful if you pop Rocket Boots right as you stealth, which will remove the immob and get you far away in stealth.
It should just remove the immobilize as it applies the stealth. Until then it’s more of a novelty used to laugh at people in WvW
Cleaning Formula 409: “Throwing or consuming elixirs removes conditions from those affected.”
Let’s face it, if you’re stupid enough to use this without the appropriate traits, then yes you deserve to die. However, if you happen to combine this with traits like the one above you not only escape certain death but buy enough time to recoup/counter.
with the ability to pile on condis and bury the immob, in addition to immobs now stacking, I would probably go with Rocket Boots rather than CF409 to get out of focus fire while immob’d
Hackkz/Riggamaroll
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
with the ability to pile on condis and bury the immob, in addition to immobs now stacking, I would probably go with Rocket Boots rather than CF409 to get out of focus fire while immob’d
I have to agree with you guys on that one, RB is much better and lets your synch up with Healing Turret for free heals as well. I was suggesting that the stealth could be prolonged to 10s with the newly renovated ES tool belt and CF409.
How often does the stealth actually keep you stealthed, though? I’d imagine if you have auto attack on, you’re likely to have a projectile you fired before becoming immobilized (and stealthed) break you out of stealth as soon as it lands and deals damage.
I have this problem a lot as a pistol/X thief. I need to time my instant stealths (blinding powder, stealth on steal, etc) between my auto attacks if I actually want the stealth to last longer than it takes for the projectile to travel. Except engineers won’t have that luxury.
I’d also imagine if you use a flamethrower, this trait is almost always out of the question. Unless I’m missing something, of course.
How often does the stealth actually keep you stealthed, though? I’d imagine if you have auto attack on, you’re likely to have a projectile you fired before becoming immobilized (and stealthed) break you out of stealth as soon as it lands and deals damage.
I have this problem a lot as a pistol/X thief. I need to time my instant stealths (blinding powder, stealth on steal, etc) between my auto attacks if I actually want the stealth to last longer than it takes for the projectile to travel. Except engineers won’t have that luxury.
I’d also imagine if you use a flamethrower, this trait is almost always out of the question. Unless I’m missing something, of course.
I’ve used it to successfully escape before, but then it was just a dumb novelty for the reasons that people above have stated: they all know where you really are, only works on new players, etc. Bombs are the only weaponset that I found would always break your stealth, although I admit I didn’t try it with flamethrower.
I’m only serious this time around because of how lucrative it will probably be for organized teams to start most teamfights by an immobilize dump on a priority target followed by focused fire. Grenade engineers are priority targets in teamfights. I started running 53% damage reduction a while back because I figured I’d be facing 1-3 hammer or mace warriors every solo queue. I was never wrong. I think cloaking device has the potential to be a similar trait, unless Anet reverses their decision.
It should just remove the immobilize as it applies the stealth. Until then it’s more of a novelty used to laugh at people in WvW
Cleaning Formula 409: “Throwing or consuming elixirs removes conditions from those affected.”
Let’s face it, if you’re stupid enough to use this without the appropriate traits, then yes you deserve to die. However, if you happen to combine this with traits like the one above you not only escape certain death but buy enough time to recoup/counter by extending that duration considerably, albeit with specific utility combos.
Before you spout off about how stupid the rest of us might be, consider that I may not find the trait very good if you need another skill or trait to make it work well.
Not to mention doing anything that has the potential to cause damage while you try and remove that immobilize is likely to break you out of stealth as well.
How often does the stealth actually keep you stealthed, though? I’d imagine if you have auto attack on, you’re likely to have a projectile you fired before becoming immobilized (and stealthed) break you out of stealth as soon as it lands and deals damage.
I have this problem a lot as a pistol/X thief. I need to time my instant stealths (blinding powder, stealth on steal, etc) between my auto attacks if I actually want the stealth to last longer than it takes for the projectile to travel. Except engineers won’t have that luxury.
I’d also imagine if you use a flamethrower, this trait is almost always out of the question. Unless I’m missing something, of course.
I picked this one to respond to since it most accurately describes where I was before I improved at PVP. What I learned was: If you have auto-attack active on your weapons and a majority of your kits, your chances of escaping with Cloaking Device will be greatly reduced. You should weigh the risks of having them in each scenario. I turned it off for my pistols when I became a multi-kit engineer. Good FT engies a while back figured out the issues of FT versus retaliation. i.e. don’t have it on, deselect your target mid-stream, or back up off out of range so the auto-attack stops. Fighting confusion-based engies and mesmers should cement that concept. The best advice I ever got here on the forums was to deactivate all auto-attack, and maybe keep it for bomb kit 1. Seemed difficult but I tried it for a month. Once I gave it up, my ability to escape and reset a fight dramatically improved.
So when you get immobilized and whooped on by 1-3 enemies, Cloaking Device gives you an opening but it’s up to your other traits and utilities to save you. like Protection Injection and 409. I had it set up with elixir S before so I’d get cloaked and I’d walk away from the immobilize, right through cleaves and AoEs, with only health-affecting conditions left cleanse once I got back to regular size. It’s cool but it doesn’t get you very far so you’ll be spotted again in an open space when stealth wears off. Or I’d use rocket boots but those can suck if you get cloaked and you RB against a wall trying to break the standing immobilization. So you gotta weigh the risks on each map and how you’re playing that day.
Also you should know that most non-damaging attacks won’t break or prematurely end your stealth. That goes for Shield 4 Magnetic Inversion in a smoke field or Slick Shoes to impair your enemy (I believe). Either way, careless auto-attack will unilaterally reduce your ability to escape from immobilize-based burst with your Cloaking Device consistently. Auto-attack makes tanking a lot easier though, so that’s the tradeoff I guess.
How often does the stealth actually keep you stealthed, though? I’d imagine if you have auto attack on, you’re likely to have a projectile you fired before becoming immobilized (and stealthed) break you out of stealth as soon as it lands and deals damage.
I have this problem a lot as a pistol/X thief. I need to time my instant stealths (blinding powder, stealth on steal, etc) between my auto attacks if I actually want the stealth to last longer than it takes for the projectile to travel. Except engineers won’t have that luxury.
I’d also imagine if you use a flamethrower, this trait is almost always out of the question. Unless I’m missing something, of course.
I believe stealthing automatically stops your auto attack. The problem is the moment you get stealthed, if you happen to have a projectile in the air at that instant, it will continue to travel and is likely to hit and reveal you.
A remove 1 condition isn’t going to save you from immobilize, since it doesn’t prioritize immobilize, and it’s almost impossible to attack someone w/o applying some other conditions.
Rocket boots has a pointless dmg explosion that will rip that invisibility off you most of the time, lol.
A remove 1 condition isn’t going to save you from immobilize, since it doesn’t prioritize immobilize, and it’s almost impossible to attack someone w/o applying some other conditions.
Rocket boots has a pointless dmg explosion that will rip that invisibility off you most of the time, lol.
Rocket boots have some funny stuff going on with it, Even tho you will do damage, you won’t e revealed until you land.
A remove 1 condition isn’t going to save you from immobilize, since it doesn’t prioritize immobilize, and it’s almost impossible to attack someone w/o applying some other conditions.
Rocket boots has a pointless dmg explosion that will rip that invisibility off you most of the time, lol.
Rocket boots have some funny stuff going on with it, Even tho you will do damage, you won’t e revealed until you land.
That’s not true, I just tested it. If I stealth then use rocket boots next to a mob, the dmg reveals instantly.
Rocket Boots only applies combo finisher effects when you land.
How often does the stealth actually keep you stealthed, though? I’d imagine if you have auto attack on, you’re likely to have a projectile you fired before becoming immobilized (and stealthed) break you out of stealth as soon as it lands and deals damage.
I have this problem a lot as a pistol/X thief. I need to time my instant stealths (blinding powder, stealth on steal, etc) between my auto attacks if I actually want the stealth to last longer than it takes for the projectile to travel. Except engineers won’t have that luxury.
I’d also imagine if you use a flamethrower, this trait is almost always out of the question. Unless I’m missing something, of course.
I picked this one to respond to since it most accurately describes where I was before I improved at PVP. What I learned was: If you have auto-attack active on your weapons and a majority of your kits, your chances of escaping with Cloaking Device will be greatly reduced. You should weigh the risks of having them in each scenario. I turned it off for my pistols when I became a multi-kit engineer. Good FT engies a while back figured out the issues of FT versus retaliation. i.e. don’t have it on, deselect your target mid-stream, or back up off out of range so the auto-attack stops. Fighting confusion-based engies and mesmers should cement that concept. The best advice I ever got here on the forums was to deactivate all auto-attack, and maybe keep it for bomb kit 1. Seemed difficult but I tried it for a month. Once I gave it up, my ability to escape and reset a fight dramatically improved.
So when you get immobilized and whooped on by 1-3 enemies, Cloaking Device gives you an opening but it’s up to your other traits and utilities to save you. like Protection Injection and 409. I had it set up with elixir S before so I’d get cloaked and I’d walk away from the immobilize, right through cleaves and AoEs, with only health-affecting conditions left cleanse once I got back to regular size. It’s cool but it doesn’t get you very far so you’ll be spotted again in an open space when stealth wears off. Or I’d use rocket boots but those can suck if you get cloaked and you RB against a wall trying to break the standing immobilization. So you gotta weigh the risks on each map and how you’re playing that day.
Also you should know that most non-damaging attacks won’t break or prematurely end your stealth. That goes for Shield 4 Magnetic Inversion in a smoke field or Slick Shoes to impair your enemy (I believe). Either way, careless auto-attack will unilaterally reduce your ability to escape from immobilize-based burst with your Cloaking Device consistently. Auto-attack makes tanking a lot easier though, so that’s the tradeoff I guess.
This is all very good information and can be helpful, but you can turn off auto attack and still run into this issue. On my pistol thief, I turned off auto attack for this very reason. Turning off auto attack helps, but it’s still very easy to have a projectile going when you are hit with an unexpected immobilize. Bombs have a delay and are a huge culprit of this.
Rocket boots are nice and I almost always have them on my utility bar. Unfortunately, using them while stealthed with an enemy in melee range will reveal you, which is generally the case.
This is all very good information and can be helpful, but you can turn off auto attack and still run into this issue. On my pistol thief, I turned off auto attack for this very reason. Turning off auto attack helps, but it’s still very easy to have a projectile going when you are hit with an unexpected immobilize. Bombs have a delay and are a huge culprit of this.
Rocket boots are nice and I almost always have them on my utility bar. Unfortunately, using them while stealthed with an enemy in melee range will reveal you, which is generally the case.
I see what you’re saying. Especially we’re traited for dropping a minefield when our health reaches 25%. Or your grenades finally land after Cloaking Device triggers. Or, like you said, bombs and the small blast at the leap of RB. It gets really dicey. The only clean solution would be for devs to despawn all your active attacks when Cloaking Device triggers, like bombs, mines, fire fields, etc., but I honestly can’t see that ever happening. Because of the way our attacks work, C. Device will never be a 100% consistent reset mid-skirmish. What it’s been mostly useful for me is when I’m getting pursued on my retreat or ganked with an immobilize opener. I dunno, it feels like a decent fail-safe. And with the new elixir S toss, now I can pop the toolbelt AoE to extend my cloaking instead of having to mash it’s utility as soon as C. Device triggers. With the new changes, I can break stun in the air extend stealth with RNG-less toolbelt elixirs. I don’t have to do a guessy 50% RNG elixir U/blast finish combo, an equally risky smoke bomb escape combos, or a super-risky flame turret combo to extend stealth. I’m saying all that to say that it’s a decent disengage tool as long as it’s bundled with other traits and utilities to make it worthwhile. Acidic Coating and Protection Injection come to mind, along with the trait that reduces condition duration by 100% when your health is below 25% (I think). I like engie versatility a whole bunch, but we had to do some serious work just to escape ganks. Definitely seeing the improvements to quality of life and how they’ll tweak our meta game.
Edit: I must be tired because I seem to be saying the same thing over and over. TL:DR I find Cloaking Device necessary in player vs. player.
Before you spout off about how stupid the rest of us might be, consider that I may not find the trait very good if you need another skill or trait to make it work well.
Not to mention doing anything that has the potential to cause damage while you try and remove that immobilize is likely to break you out of stealth as well.
I apologize if I offended you or anyone else. I was not implying that people were stupid, merely that it would be an amateur decision to rely solely on the trait CD without the appropriate synergy. As was stated prior, the trait alone does make one a sitting duck and requires one to use other skills in conjunction. That does not necessarily render it useless, rather justifiably manageable for maximum utilization.
Before you spout off about how stupid the rest of us might be, consider that I may not find the trait very good if you need another skill or trait to make it work well.
Not to mention doing anything that has the potential to cause damage while you try and remove that immobilize is likely to break you out of stealth as well.
I apologize if I offended you or anyone else. I was not implying that people were stupid, merely that it would be an amateur decision to rely solely on the trait CD without the appropriate synergy. As was stated prior, the trait alone does make one a sitting duck and requires one to use other skills in conjunction. That does not necessarily render it useless, rather justifiably manageable for maximum utilization.
It’s alright. As others have mentioned though even using condition clear won’t likely remove the immobilize. Unless it’s Rocket Boots, which would likely break you out of stealth. You would have to reserve Elixir C only for times you get immobilized, not what I would call an optimal use of skills.
I get it though, it can be useful. I just don’t like the idea that for one trait to be useful, it requires the use of other traits and/or skills. Traits should enhance what we already have (as pretty much all of them do) not require you to bring even more to make it work.
I don’t use it in PVE anymore even the stealth is messed up in PVE the creatures still see you even when you go invisible so it makes no difference honestly, until they fix that I don’t see stealthing being useful at all honestly.
Even if you use big ole bomb with smoke field up, the dmg FROM big ole bomb reveals you, that shouldn’t even be happening since it stealths at the same time it deals dmg, it’s not dealing dmg after the stealth.
As Mnemesis has said, with a condition removal this trait is useful. It is also useful if you pop Rocket Boots right as you stealth, which will remove the immob and get you far away in stealth.
Unless of course you hit someone with your rocket-boots or dodge bombs….
Engineer and stealth is ….. not that greate. It good to start a fight with it but infight its mostly useless for me because my aoe effects hit something while im stealthed anyway.
I ALWAYS use this trait, it is one of my favourite, loving the longer cooldown in exchange for longer stealth
Couple with the new Elixer S and Elixer H with cleansing formula
I do think a good solution would be to add a teleport back when it triggers, similar to my thief if i remember rightly.
Im not saying remove immobilize, just let the engineer get teleported forwards/back a few metres, even if they accidently blow the stealth, they can still use element of suprise to take advantage of the teleport.
Even if you use big ole bomb with smoke field up, the dmg FROM big ole bomb reveals you, that shouldn’t even be happening since it stealths at the same time it deals dmg, it’s not dealing dmg after the stealth.
Well – those perma stealth Thiefs use Smoke Field in Combination of Heartseeker or SB #2 as well. Thought they can spam those way more easy then we can and have other easy access to Stealth. An Engineer just isn’t an Thief. Even thought you can use Rocket Boots with Smoke Bomb for an similiar Escape.
Our stealth is more preemptive for Stun / CC Combos.
Try autodefense bomb dispenser out, it shuts down the opener on almost all the current meta’s builds. if you get loaded up with immo and then stunned, you can stop the incoming damage and rocket boots out for a free stealth and reset without wasting a single CD or taking much damage.
