Guild Wars 2

I truly hope that they reconsider the Incendiary Powder nerf. I’m a dual pistol alchemist and that trait is one of the my staples. Pushing it back to the master tier of EXPLOSIVES will basically limit it to grenadiers only, which would be a massive nerf to my already borderline subpar build. I honestly can’t see how this accomplishes much, at all…

JonPeters.5630:

If all we do is take the worst traits and buff them, then every patch everything gets stronger and eventually the game is broken. The word balance literally means reaching an equilibrium which is in between two end points. This means that in order to reach it things must assuredly go up and down.

That equilibrium should NEVER involve reducing the number of viable builds on a class that is already suffering from a lack of them as it is. While it would make the job of balancing a whole lot easier if we were all funneled into being grenadiers, it would hardly make Engineer a fun class to play and definitely subvert a large part of what makes this class fun.

You know for a while i didnt see any Dev response here, do they still take our sugestions in to the acount?
The main discussion thread which is the origing of this thread is already closed.

Cold Hearted Person.6154:

You know for a while i didnt see any Dev response here, do they still take our sugestions in to the acount?
The main discussion thread which is the origing of this thread is already closed.

I think they are generally being honest when they say they read all of the threads made. Sometimes it is funny though, because you will have a thread with 150 post. 75 posters are complaining about something and want it changed, the other 75 love it as it is. Then you see some of them complaining that they never pay attention to player feed back. It gets comical at times.

All that said, I have had to many discussions with Anet employees in game, or seen to many post on the forums that indicate they know our opinion on ideas, professions, or skills, but they have their own reasons for doing what they do.

@Xaylin

I can see what you are trying to explain. The thing is this. When the other classes heavily spec into their trait lines, they can effectively use it (and they should).

I think the same should be for our trait lines(firearms especially). For example tools, which seems to be about endurance. We should be able to spec into it and use it effectively, at the cost of other things ofcourse. So you changed my opinion from endurance is important for every engineer build, to endurance is only important for builds which heavily use the tools trait line for defense. So as long as anet doesn’t nerf the endurance regenfrom the tools kit traits (which they haven’t) , it’s okay. Of course endurance still stays important troughout other builds, but to a smaller extent.

I think the main reason why endurance seemed so important is that the other kits sometimes are a bit lackluster. Especially when compared to grenades and bombs, which are more offensive, so you expect to have lower defense. The other kits could use some buffs, be it trough traits.

I totally agree with the other points you make. It might kind of be along the lines of “offense is the best defense”. We can indeed ‘defend’ ourselves with CC and conditions.

But how it is now, turrets and gadgets, which both have the potential to be a big source of damage mitigation trough cc are bugged and/or underwhelming. The other thing is that CC isn’t that effective and sometimes conditions aren’t either against pve bosses. Also having a hard counter against cc makes me a bit sad. But Coglin posted that Anet was looking into those issues, so I’m hoping for the best.

The problems with turrets are obvious, but for gadgets less. They are indeed cool, but they seem to be lacking in certain areas. They also have a much higher cooldown when compared to similar skills of other classes. On top of this, you can’t really seem to trait for them. We only have a lower recharge and that is basically it.

Firearms definitely need a few buffs. I just don’t know how.

cdimgcc.1638:

A mechanism is something you see returning in most of the skills and traits of a profession. For example, a thief has a lot of traits and skills granting stealth and initiative.
A necro has a lot of traits and skills granting death shroud life power.
Warrior has a lot of skills and traits granting adrenaline.
Mesmers have a lot of skills and traits granting clones or phantasms.
Elementalists lower trait line is all about attunements, in which they use earth for defense and water for healing.
Rangers is all about pets. Don’t know much about that.

Now tell me what do you see returning much in our traits and skills. Tell me?

You mean tell you about the 8 skills or traits that apply blinds? or the 4 skills/traits that apply protection? or the way toss elixir H can add vigor for 10s out of 24s traited? or how we can proc vigor on crits? or how elixir R refills our endurance at will every 24s traited? or how using tool belt skills can refill endurance?

I can double or triple that list actually, if you like. I just have trouble justifying my effort in this when you tried to use Endure Pain for your argument while not even knowing what that Endure Pain even does.

I took the time to level all of the professions to 80. It was fun, I got to learn what I liked, and what I didn’t like about them. I learned their strengths and weaknesses. In the end, I still main an engineer. Because I like its diversity I find. But most importantly, it taught me what each profession can do in relation to the others. This experience tells me your speaking out of a pure lack of knowledge when you make your claims. How are you going to attempt to tell us what other professions can do in relation to the engineer, when you have no idea what the other professions actually can and cannot do?

In my opinion, the only true problem that engineers have as a professions is that when you use a kit, you lose a slot for a stun break or condition removal. I have no issue with the kit system. We have no swap cool down in trade for having to use a utility slot for our weapon swap. That aspect of the system works. What I dislike is how we lack condition removal or stun breaks in the deal. Now when they added a stun break to EG tool belt skill, they solved half of that problem right there. As of now though. to remove conditions, we either need to go very trait heavy into elixirs and use elixirs, or slot elixir C. The large majority of our condition removal is tied up in that. Granted super elixir will remove one condition and antidote will remove another, that is a lot of effort to access them.

@Coglin

See the post above yours. BTW, where exactly did I use endure pain as an argument?

coglin.1867:

In my opinion, the only true problem that engineers have as a professions is that when you use a kit, you lose a slot for a stun break or condition removal. I have no issue with the kit system. We have no swap cool down in trade for having to use a utility slot for our weapon swap. That aspect of the system works. What I dislike is how we lack condition removal or stun breaks in the deal. Now when they added a stun break to EG tool belt skill, they solved half of that problem right there. As of now though. to remove conditions, we either need to go very trait heavy into elixirs and use elixirs, or slot elixir C. The large majority of our condition removal is tied up in that. Granted super elixir will remove one condition and antidote will remove another, that is a lot of effort to access them.

I agree with you on this part. I think the stun breaks are oddly placed. The EG stun break was a nice deal, and I’d like to see more of that. The stun break on elixir U just doesn’t do it for me, especially when I gain haste. The other stun break is on goggles, I’d taken an untraited EG over goggles anytime.

As for conditions, perhaps it is on purpose? Perhaps they want us to pick between surviving bursts and surviving conditions.

cdimgcc.1638:

@Xaylin

I can see what you are trying to explain. The thing is this. When the other classes heavily spec into their trait lines, they can effectively use it (and they should).

I think the same should be for our trait lines(firearms especially). For example tools, which seems to be about endurance. We should be able to spec into it and use it effectively, at the cost of other things ofcourse.

What do you mean by “effectively use” exactly? If you mean the stat bonuses from Firearms you better instantly forget about that. The stats provided by a trait line should be the last to look at. Making the right trait choices is far more important when creating a build.

Traitwise Firearms provides minors which are useful for any build with a decent amount of precision. It also is very good (to necessary) when using FT and EG. It is effective. The only thing lacking are the grandmaster majors. The traits for pistols and rifles are quite nice actually. They are just not very popular because the weapon skills are a too weak to compete with the GK or BK as damage source.

I personally like the minors in Tools a lot (Adrenaline Pump and Inertial Converter, Enduring Damage not so much). The traits are indeed a bit messy and should be looked at. Some traits just don’t make any sense. Tools could be a great line for turret builds with the tool kit if they finally worked on turrets in general. It could also be interesting for builds with many gadets if they added another trait like Static Discharge at the master or grandmaster level. But changes like this are beyond small fixes so maybe it might take some more time.

cdimgcc.1638:

The problems with turrets are obvious, but for gadgets less. They are indeed cool, but they seem to be lacking in certain areas. They also have a much higher cooldown when compared to similar skills of other classes. On top of this, you can’t really seem to trait for them. We only have a lower recharge and that is basically it.

The trait issue might be because of the stuff I said earlier. They are not meant to be core of a build. Another issue might be that they are very different in the way they work. This means it is hard to design traits which benefit all Gagdets. It is the same for Manipulations. One trait with cooldown reduction and one for increased range which does not even make sense for all the skills. The cooldowns of Gadgets are pretty low actually. I personally dislike Battering Ram and Utility Goggles should get a new toolbelt skill. But besides that Gadets provide nice utilities for different builds (e.g. Slick Shoes on BK builds… nasty). The only thing I see missing is condition removal. A re-worked Battering Ram or a new toolbelt skill for UG or Throw Mines could do that.

cdimgcc.1638:

Firearms definitely need a few buffs. I just don’t know how.

I would prefer the weapon skills to be buffed instead of the traits. Revising the weapon skills could bring Engineers away from 2-3 kit builds to 1 kit builds with more Elixirs, Gadgets and Turrets.

@Xaylin

With effectively I mean, that if you for example put 30 points into firearms, you should notice a significant difference compared to untraited. When I trait for FT, I still find it a bit lacking in the damage area. Deadly mixture trait on the alchemy line doesn’t seem that great for the EG. The EG seems more about conditions, rather than direct damage, so the 10% extra won’t really be noticed.

The firearms line, when looking at the offensive traits, gives off such a mixed signal. The rifle seems to be about precision, so it seems like it could really benefit from tools, as that gives another 30% crit dmg. The problem of the rifle is that it’s such a slow firing weapon that you really don’t want to be focused when you use it. You wont have a chance to fire it. This might however be where gadgets come into the picture.

The pistols seem to be about condition damage, but when I use dual pistols without hgh, I find it kind of lacking in damage. That might however also be because of the skills lacking, rather than the traits. The OH pistol #4 is great, #5 is good, but it’s soo slow. I think it’s the MH pistol that needs the most work.

I always wondered about pistols. The shots explode upon impact, but they’re not counted towards explosions. Same goes for FT #2, it’s an explosion, but doesn’t count towards it for proc effects.

I think we could use something along the lines of IP, but for pistols. Pistols are all about condition damage, so I think that should receive some attention.

Another problem, more in general, are conditions. I really hate how your stacks get overwritten, while at the same time loving it. I hate it because someone unraited overwrites your condition damage, lowering it while someone higher traited can increase the damage. It’s really nice to team up with a necro, stack all your conditions and then let the necro overwrite it all. The tick is amazing.

I sometimes tend to forget that this is a team game (wvw is so empty latlely, so I"m usually on my own). So being able to do a lot of cc and sabotaging with conditions while teammates finish them off would be role I’d like to fill. I really hope the changes they are going to make, will make this role (even) more viable, especially in dungeons.

No one will argue with you that the FT #1 is underwhelming damage.

Your right about the general problem with conditions. This isn’t specifically an engineer problem. It sure as heck is a problem they need to buckle down on and fix though, s it tends to hose everyone.

Oh, and what server are you one that WvW is so empty? I wish I could say that. My server almost always has a queue on all BL and EB 24/7 since release.

If I may suggest, Jon – could you take a look at our Elixir X?

I would really enjoy not having a randomness factor in my elite, since using it can either mean a clean escape from a body of players chasing, or a most assured death [if I roll wrong and get tornado]. Perhaps we could preset which one we want.. ?

Also, could we please get a statement regarding the reversion of kit damage back to exotic? I know it’s from a while back, but I’m still scratching my head a little bit, hehe.

Considering I have Predator as well as Quip, maybe you can set the minimum grade of kits to Exotic, but if your primary weapon fits Ascended level then the kit would bump up to it – feels reasonable to me, but I would just like to hear a statement, considering we were hoping for one after the reversion.

Thanks for your time!

Since ANET brought the issue to the table with the preview patch notes, we will be seeing engineer stacking more boon duration or roll with Infused Precision trait, losing all sense on nerfs because ANET doesn’t want most builds to work around with one trait (Incendiary Powder).

Eventually this could affect the class, so I think ANET should be looking at the buff and not the class, there’re another 3 classes, that I’m aware of, being able to perma vigor as well, Guardian, Mesmer & Elementalist.

I think vigor should be capped just like stealth, where you aren’t able to stack more than 3-5 secs of it even with boon duration increase.

cdimgcc.1638:

The firearms line, when looking at the offensive traits, gives off such a mixed signal. The rifle seems to be about precision, so it seems like it could really benefit from tools, as that gives another 30% crit dmg. The problem of the rifle is that it’s such a slow firing weapon that you really don’t want to be focused when you use it.

That’s exactly the thing I talked about earlier. You should not pick trait lines for stats. It won’t work most of the time. On any class. Besides that, most power build benefits from critical damage.

cdimgcc.1638:

I always wondered about pistols. The shots explode upon impact, but they’re not counted towards explosions. Same goes for FT #2, it’s an explosion, but doesn’t count towards it for proc effects.

I think we could use something along the lines of IP, but for pistols. Pistols are all about condition damage, so I think that should receive some attention.

Although I get it, it is a bit like asking for a blast finisher on any skill which is named “Blast”. And let’s be honest… nobody would take this trait just for FT2. I got the sneeking suspicion that you just would like to have a pistol friendly trait on the adept and master level to grab the extra power and condition duration.

I think cdimgcc got a point when saying that the Tools traitline is a bit lackluster when it comes to the class mechanic. The traitlines of other classes are much more focussed on the mechanic itself. So I thought about how I personally would like the traitline to change.

Concept of the traitline

Currently the traitline provides traits for the toolbelt, several kits, gadgets and turrets. However, the lack of toolbelt and gadget traits is quite obvious. Additionally, most kits already have traits associated with them in other trait lines. I would prefer the line to focus on the following:

• Turrets and Toolkit
• Toolbelt skills
• Gadgets

Turrets and Toolkit

Nothing to say here. Deployable Turrets and Power Wrench plus one of the GM traits could be the basis for a solid turret build. Some turret traits from other lines might have to be combined and turrets (pets) have to be improved in general in certain situations (area effects killing them etc.).

Toolbelt skills

There should be a lot more traits which make toolbelt skills do something. I guess the biggest issue here is the complexity because there are so many different toolbelt skills and recharges are already covered by the minor and the traitline bonus. One idea I had:

Toolbelt Refinement
Your toolbelt skills grant additional effects.
Global internal cooldown.

• Elixirs: Heal yourself and nearby allies.
• Turrets: Grant Protection to yourself and nearby allies (e.g. turrets).
• Gadgets: Cure conditions on yourself.
• Weapon kits: Scrap Kit Refinement and use the effects for this trait.

This trait will definitively give the use of the toolbelt skills more depth. It also offers improvements to different playstyles although it doesn’t work with Static Discharge that well. The effects for the kits might have to be reworked. The amount healed, the duration of the protection and how many conditions are healed would have to be balanced by the internal cooldown.

Gadgets

The trait above will already improve Gadgets quite a bit since they can be used for removing conditions. However, they could need something to make them even more interesting.

Multifunctional Gadgets
Your Gadgets grant additional effects depending on the weapon (kit) you are using.
Global internal cooldown.

• Rifle: Gain Quickness.
• Pistol: Gain Might stacks.
• Flamethrower: Cause Torment to nearby enemies.
• Elixir Gun: Cause Weakness to nearby enemies.
• Bomb Kit: Immobilize nearby enemies.
• Grenade Kit: Gain Fury.
• Tool Kit: Gain Vigor.
• Med Kit: You and nearby allies gain Regeneration.

Not perfect but I tried to find effects which complement the respective weapons or kits without replicating Kit Refinement. This trait in combination with my suggested Toolbelt Refinement could make for quite interesting builds using 1 Kit and two Gadgets.

@Coglin
I play on SoS. It’s a nice server, but the coverage is lackin during certain times. Usually I am online during our servers downtime. Not that it matters that much, I like roaming more than zerging anyway. I haven’t had a single queu so far and I don’t mind a single bit

@Xaylin
You’re right, I really want that little extra on the pistol :P

The idea you provided is really neat. I have ran a few gadget and turret builds and they were good, but they seemed to be missing that little extra that could make the difference. This could provide that little extra.

Perhaps something similar could happen to turrets, making them give some sort of boon over time could provide an incentive to keep them up.

Honestly, what I’d like to end up seeing is a trait that acts similar in the way Kit Refinement acts to Kits, however it instead would effect Turrets; or to be more specific, the Toolbelt Turret Skills. When the trait effect is active, it’d allow the activated Toolbelt skill to also gain the benefit of the Turrets Overcharge effect. Regenerating Mist would AoE Heal and Remove 2 Condi’s; Surprise Shot would cause 1, 8 second stack of Vulnerability; Throw Napalm would retain the initial burn, but the persisting field would instead be a Smoke field, and cause Blind; Net Attack would have a 2 second stun; Rumble would launch nearby foes; and Rocket would cause a 2 second knockdown.

It will be awhile before they revisit kit refinement after they nerfed it into complete oblivion. No one uses it anymore.

Since this is a balance thread… will Eng ever get some love with our downed skills or are you devs happy with them?

Explosives V – Incendiary Powder. Moved to Master tier.
This will totally get me lynched, but Incendiary Powder is really too good a trait for Adept tier. Sure, it’s been nerfed before and Engies do have pretty broad access to burning anyway, but it’s still the most generally useful damage trait, in a game where damage is still king. Two issues:

1. If the stated goal is build diversity, bumping it to Master really only encourages folks to just push more into Explosives, which is already a really popular trait line thanks to Grenadier; it just creates more contention in the Master tier of that line, which already has one good general damage trait (Enhance Performance). Given the synergy with the precision from Firearms, it may be more beneficial for build diversity to move this into that line instead, which has no good general damage traits at Master (seriously, does anyone take Go for the Eyes?) Of course, FT builds will scream bloody murder at that, but given their access to burn, it may be better to sweeten Napalm Specialist to compensate.

2. Making this change because it’s simpler and can be done right now without a corresponding damage buff elsewhere feels unfair precisely because so many builds already rely on it to shore up fairly weak damage synergies in the Engie class design. Whether the change is righteous or not in the long term, it will be judged in the context of just the Dec 10 patch, and as such, will feel like an unjustified nerf.

Explosives VI – Exploit Weakness. Increased the health threshold. 25% to 50%
This change makes it minimally viable, but it still seems like a weak trait. Given the broad access Engies have to immobilize/chill/cripple effects already. If you care about cripple, you probably already have it in your skill selection, and the additional 33% uptime cripple that requires getting the opponent down to 50% seems marginal. Also, while we are talking quality of life improvements, why is this not the same as the change to Predator’s Instinct? Not a criticism, just a unclear on the reasoning for the difference.

Explosives IX – Accelerant packed turrets. Moved to Adept tier.
This trait needs to be redesigned. It has shorter than melee range (120 vs 130) when it really needs the same boost that bombs and mines recently got (180) to be useful. At the same time, being able to get two 20 sec cooldown AoE knockbacks for an Adept trait brings them into a space that devalues Throw Mine as a skill.

Firearms XI – Modified Ammunition. Now works regardless of equipped weapon.
It’s a good buff, but it’s weirdly non-synergistic with the Firearms trait line. You ideally want condition duration and power to maximize the effectiveness of this, so you might just end up with a bunch of Grenadier + Modified Ammunition builds instead of fostering build diversity. If this was in Explosives though, it creates an interesting tension at the Grandmaster tier, and makes Explosives more than just The Grenades and Bombs Line.

Inventions X – Autotool Installation. Increased healing percent from 1% to 5%.
Decreased interval from 10s to 3s.
It’s a good buff but it seems only worth looking at for some PvP bunker builds perhaps. In PvE, it’s not going to save turrets from massive damage in boss fights, which are really the only time you want turrets in a fixed location for any duration (other than the autoleveling thing which has been nerfed.) It’s been suggested before that picking up turrets should not put them on cooldown, which I agree with, and in that case, having turrets that heal faster while in your possession could be pretty valuable.

Inventions XI – Elixir Infused bombs. Increased healing scaling by 50%.
Bomb heal builds running Clerics/Apothecary seem to have been in decline, and it seems like this would give it a needed boost.

Inventions VIII – Power Shoes. Will now function outside of combat.
This is definitely a better quality of life improvement compared to the Speedy Kits change. I don’t know if it’s enough to convince folks to trait into Inventions though, given the relative weakness of this line in general. If I’m into this line for either of the Grandmaster traits it might be worth picking up, for instance, it might be good with Elixir-Infused bombs, but otherwise Speedy Kits or Infused Precision are just so much more accessible.

Alchemy 15 – Transmute. Increased % chance from 8% to 100%. This effect can now only trigger once every 15 seconds.
I welcome the removal of RNG from this trait. Given the furor over Diamond Skin though, I suspect there will be a lot of complaining about this in PvP because it breaks snare and gank alpha strikes. It’s something that folks can adapt to though (like dealing with blind: don’t pop your big guns too quickly). It seems reasonable for a minor trait, but not something to go into half-tier builds for.

Tools VI – Speedy Kits. Increased Swiftness duration to 10s. 10s recharge.
I would have agreed with this as a quality of life fix back in beta, but experience with the class shows that how frequently I have to swap to proc swiftness really is a non-issue for me. I really have two modes of kit usage: stay in it as a primary weapon, or dip in and out for specific skills.

For the former, this change is a nice but I tend not to swap on perfect timing, so I’d rather dip into Drop Stimulant or Elixir B as a base and use any kit swapping to extend swiftness. Granted, in a build keyed off weapon swaps, having this on the same timer is nice (e.g. Sigil of Battle)

For the latter, it does break my favorite combo with Invigorating Speed. I don’t really even care about 100% vigor uptime. It’s Vigor on demand or close to on demand that I care about, since Vigor is largely wasted most of the time if you’re playing well (except for folks using Energy Conversion Matrix, I guess). A 5 sec refresh in the worst case is pretty tolerable and you’ll almost always get some use out of it. A 10 second worst case makes the potential benefit of vigor marginal. It introduces the same sort issues having to pay attention to timing of switches that led me to drop Kit Refinement.

Side note on Invigorating Speed: I’ve always regarded it as one of the defining characteristics of the Engie, given the traits that synergize with endurance, and one of the few clearly intended synergies in an otherwise bafflingly structured trait layout. It’s also one of the primary sources of damage mitigation for Engies in high-end PvE content given that Defiant negates many of the CC options that Engies get that make them pretty resilient in PvP (not to mention in the cases we could use CC, it can annoy team mates because of positioning issues).

Tools XI – Armor Mods. Changed this to now trigger on struck instead of on critical hit incoming. Reduced the cooldown from 25s to 15s.
On paper, this is pretty strong pressure mitigation now given that it causes Engies to proc Aegis readily and more frequently than Guardians. Still does nothing for those massive one hit kills though. It’s interesting and maybe there’re some half-zerker type builds to come out of this.

Inventions V – Energized Armor. Increased conversion: 5% to 7%.
Alchemy V – Blood Injection. Increased conversion from 5% to 7%.
Bonus stats are nice, but until you hit about 3 stacks of might worth they’re just not hugely interesting to build around, particularly since Engies don’t seem to have a great deal of things focused on power-scaled damage relative to some classes.

Blunderbuss. Updated the ranges on this skill so that it is at 100% effectiveness with anyone in melee range. Increased range 200 units. when using the trait.
This feels like an overdue fix rather than cause for excitement. Really, anything with less than melee range should be a bug.

JonPeters.5630:

Master tier traits
Some good suggestions on builds that might open up if we improve some of the master tier traits would be good to see. Here is a pretty decent list of master tier traits that I still find underwhelming.

Explosive Powder, Enhance Performance, Power Showes, Elite Supplies, Deadly Mixture, Potent Elixirs, Packaged Stimulents, Power Wrench, Leg Mods.

Explosives VII – Explosive Powder
It’s a fine trait and would be better in more builds if “explosions” were clearly defined and expanded to include things that made intuitive sense like Rocket Turret attack, turret Detonate, Explosive Shot. It feels symptomatic of the Engie traits to have lots of traits which are just worthless unless you’re using a specific skill.

Explosives X – Enhance Performance
Again, a fine trait as long as you’re using Med Kit. The problem is that it competes with other good Master Traits in Explosives, and if you’re in Explosives, you’re probably going to use Grenadier and Short Fuse/Explosive Powder for condition/damage. It might be better to make this grant Might on kit swap, which opens this up regardless of which heal skill you use.

Inventions IX – Elite Supplies
A reasonable choice for an heal bomb support build for the Supply Crate improvement, but only in comparison to other similarly weak options in the tier. Spending a trait on something you can’t use very often is probably not something folks would take; I imagine the Guardian Elite Focus is even worse off given the much stronger Master traits in that line. This could be replaced.

Alchemy VII – Deadly Mixture.
This trait feels like a way to force FT builds to spend 20 in Alchemy. Elixir Gun doesn’t even benefit that much from the damage boost given its poor base numbers and power scaling. I would just take the 15% FT damage boost and combine it with Napalm Specialist. Scrap Fireforged Trigger. Move the 20% recharge for FT to Hair Trigger and EG to Fast-Acting Elixirs. Add some other benefit like condition duration, condition damage, or extra condition stacks to Deadly Mixture for EG instead.

Alchemy VIII – Potent Elixirs
This really seems to be only good in conjunction with Elixir U for extra Quickness. Also overlaps with the effect for Elite Supplies with Elixir X, which is unfortunate. If you’re talking about Elixir boon effects, the trait attribute bonus already gets up the 20% and it doesn’t help HGH, which is what most folks going deep into Alchemy want; I think they’re more likely to invest in other sources of boon duration, rather than Potent Elixirs.

Tools VII – Packaged Stimulants
Definitely a quality of life issue with this. The targeting reticule is tiny (same issue with Deployable Turrets) which is really hard to see in the heat of battle. The shift from drop to ground-targeting is an even bigger shift for this skill than turrets because you still have to run over thrown things to use them, which is inefficient at best. It seems like it was designed for group support, but throwing it onto a party member doesn’t seem to automatically grant the effect, they need to move over it. If the intent was group support, it would be much better if picking up something automatically shared the effect with allies in a 240 radius. Ranged support might be better served by introducing an Alchemy trait that grants Regen on all thrown Elixirs.

Tools VIII – Power Wrench
Again, not a bad trait just for the recharge duration. The problem is really more that this only affects the Tool Kit, and it’s just a weirdly unfocused kit: It’s got great utilities worth taking the kit for situationally, like Gear Shield and Magnet and recharge reduction really shines for them, but as the only melee kit, it has poorer damage output than FT and requires more risk with no Juggernaut trait to mitigate. Finally, it seems designed to heal turrets, which no one uses because it’s just such a huge opportunity cost to sit there thwacking a turret (which themselves are unpopular).

I would suggest focusing on making it a better weapon kit and ditching the connection to turrets entirely. Even small things: Make Thwack cleave. Give it a 3 sec Weakness proc, so you get some damage mitigation to offset being in melee. Add a stack of bleed to Box of Nails or extend the bleed duration so they stack better. Make the cripple default on Throw Wrench, or better yet, something else to make it not some poor cousin of Personal Battering Ram.

Tools X – Leg Mods
It certainly doesn’t feel like a Master trait, particularly when compared to the Adept tier Dogged March for Warrior. Given the fact that we already have two skills that remove only movement impairment conditions in addition to all the standard condition management skills, it feels like a really marginal benefit to deal with movement impairing heavy environments to spend 20 points on. It doesn’t synergize well with anything in particular in Tools, and seems like a good Adept tier candidate for being able to splash 10 points to pick it up if it was necessary.

Bonus round:

Firearms 25 – Target the Maimed
Why is this only a 5% boon compared to the equivalent Warrior trait Attack of Opportunity? Or pretty much every similar trait across the board (Fiery Wrath, Exposed Weakness, even Burning Rage is getting buffed to 10%) If you want to encourage more folks to spec up into Firearms, this seems like a clear buff to make.

Alchemy VI – Protection Injection
This seems to be strictly better than Inventions 4 – Stabilized Armor. (33% damage reduction on wider range of effects for 3 seconds every 5 vs. 20% damage reduction for duration of KD or stun) Will we be addressing potentially redundant traits in the near future as well?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Engineers-turrets-overhaul/first#post3185340

A suggestion about an overhaul of turrets, if people are interested.

I would like to see an Engineer/Elementalist Quality-of-Life change in 2014. Right now, Engineers and Elementalists (rightly, for balance reasons) are not allowed to swap weapons in combat. However, every Engie & Ele worth their salt carries a backup weapon to swap out of combat.

For plain convenience, can Engies/Eles be afforded a second weapon slot, and just limit us so we can only use it out of combat? There’s no difference between this and pulling up your inventory and double clicking the item, it just reduces the hassle and bag space.

I guess no dev will ever read this but I post it anyway.

Please review Elixir C,U,R!
- Elixir C is not usable while you are under the effect of fear. This makes this elixir very often not useful.
- Elixir U stunbreaker should be on the toss not on the elixir itself. The toss should be replaced my something different. I never see someone using it. The stunbreaker + Frenzy is not very smart. You use a stunbreaker if you are in trouble and with this elixir you get frenzy while you are in trouble. Not very useful.
- Elixir R should be a stunbreaker again. Or replace the elixir R function with something different or lower the timer. 30sec for refill endurance? Come on.

Inventions XI – Elixir Infused bombs. Increased healing scaling by 50%

This is ok, but it also need an increase of the area (only for the healing effect. Maybe 480), because if you have swiftness you run always out of the healing area.

Lupanic.6502:

- Elixir U stunbreaker should be on the toss not on the elixir itself. The toss should be replaced my something different. I never see someone using it. The stunbreaker + Frenzy is not very smart. You use a stunbreaker if you are in trouble and with this elixir you get frenzy while you are in trouble. Not very useful.

I very much disagree with this. Elixir U never leaves my bar in fractals, precisely because of Toss Elixir U working as a projectile wall.

I do not mind the projective deflection wall, and it is somewhat useful, however having a stun-break that actually makes you more susceptible to being killed makes no sense to me…..

zaragoz.6351:

I do not mind the projective deflection wall, and it is somewhat useful, however having a stun-break that actually makes you more susceptible to being killed makes no sense to me…..

I agree. I’ve already suggested that they move the stunbreaker from Elixir U back onto Elixir R.

But I think Toss Elixir U should be left out of that conversation. It’s a very valuable skill in a lot of dungeons.

…Ah, basically forcing everyone to run 30 in explosives.

Such diversity. Wow.

Constructive feedback:

• Take the third ‘Nade off grenadier so we aren’t forced into 30 explosives to use Grenades.
• Commit to work on Flamethrower to make it a viable alternative to Grenades or Bombs
• Commit to work on actually seriously fixing turrets.
• Elixir F on Elixir gun is a terrible skill, desperately in need of a significant increase to travel speed. (Currently ~80% chance to miss initially, 100% chance to miss bounce).

Options for FT fix:

• Reduced FJ cast duration, reduce direct damage accordingly (5 hits over 1.25 sec), leave burn.
• Napalm only line DPS skill in the game? Why? AoE circle please.
• Range > 600 (FT becomes mid range weapon instead of melee which we already have from Bombs/Toolkit)
• Incendiary cooldown currently astronimical, consider an edit.

After a set of much improved patches, sadly we appear to have returned to rushed/irrelevant/more harmful than useful patches. 2/10. disappointing.

This patch only reduces builds not increases, and does nothing to bring up underwhelming builds. Bomb heals are still missing enough range on the heal effect (and the damage effect)to hit most people moving around, it’s like adding fancy rims to a car with no engine, much like all the minor turret fluff that relentlessly ignores the core problems with turrets.

Whatever these “Core Roles of the Engineer” are supposed to be has never been defined by A-net, a major part of the problem.

Slapdash patch, fails to address any important engineer issues, does the opposite of it’s stated aims in several cases.

Manuhell.2759:

Regarding the tool kit lack of offense, what if we had a second skill on the gear shield of purely offensive nature?
They should just modify the model a bit and add a cannon in the middle. Then we can have it shoot a small/mid range cannonball for a sort of burst damage…in exchange for a prolonged cooldown on the gear shield skill (akin to the guardian’s orb of light, basically).
And the nice thing is that, well, the gun shield really exists – i didn’t invent it on the fly. It didn’t work that well, ok, but we’re engineers…we could make it work better, somehow.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:English_-_Gun_Shield_-_Walters_511414.jpg

Please no. I like the CD on my shield as it is. I think the TK should be used as a Utility instead of using it offensively.

acedragonz.9387:

Please no. I like the CD on my shield as it is. I think the TK should be used as a Utility instead of using it offensively.

Then it wouldn’t change anything for you. As i said, it would work akin to the guardian’s orb of light – using it normally has a 3s cooldown, unless you use the second skill, that brings it to 12s.
Also, TK is our only real melee kit – i would say it deserves some more offense. And an addition like the one i proposed could give it in a versatile way, as the player can choose to trade some additional offense for a reduced defense on the fly.

Short fuse to adept tier would be a nice tradeoff for IP going to master.

Exploding turrets for knockback AND boon removal would be nice. Stability kills that trait in wvw. We have the mine or acidic elixirs for boon removal but they are a bit weak.

JonPeters.5630:

Invogorating Speed

Incendiary Powder

The only reason everyone took IP is because our DPS is kitten without the burning. We can get burning from other ways, but most of them are NOT viable at all. Fix them and maybe it might be alright.

Invigorating Speed is pretty much what keeps engineers alive. Nerfing it because of the trait line it’s in is a stupid reason. Move it, don’t nerf it.

As other people in this thread, and Ostrich Eggs somewhere (Maybe this thread?) Nade+Bomb build will probably be the only viable build.

Such diversity.

K U T M.4539:

JonPeters.5630:

Invogorating Speed

Incendiary Powder

The only reason everyone took IP is because our DPS is kitten without the burning. We can get burning from other ways, but most of them are NOT viable at all. Fix them and maybe it might be alright.

Invigorating Speed is pretty much what keeps engineers alive. Nerfing it because of the trait line it’s in is a stupid reason. Move it, don’t nerf it.

As other people in this thread, and Ostrich Eggs somewhere (Maybe this thread?) Nade+Bomb build will probably be the only viable build.

Such diversity.

Yeah totally agree, I honestly don’t think that most engineers realize that over a prolonged fight that IP is most likely somewhere between 33% and 35% of their overall damage. Also just like you stated its only going to pigeon hole engineers further into the explosives tree.

And although vigor itself isn’t being nerfed the changed to speedy kits is going to hurt us, although I will still most likely use the same combination. Having to time your speedy kits to get the most out of vigor is just going to suck.

K U T M.4539:

The only reason everyone took IP is because our DPS is kitten without the burning. We can get burning from other ways, but most of them are NOT viable at all.

Couldn’t be less true. Most of our access to burning is extremely viable. Rocket Kick, Fire bomb, Blowtorch, flamethrower skills, flame turret, and IP are pretty much all of our ways of applying burning, and other then turrets limitation, they are all extremely viable.

Looking at the list, you would be hard pressed to convince players that MOST of them are NOT viable as you suggest.

K U T M.4539:

The only reason everyone took IP is because our DPS is kitten without the burning. We can get burning from other ways, but most of them are NOT viable at all. Fix them and maybe it might be alright.

…I only took it because I was trying to take Accelerant-Packed Turrets, myself, and the other Adept traits were useless for my build.

coglin.1867:

K U T M.4539:

The only reason everyone took IP is because our DPS is kitten without the burning. We can get burning from other ways, but most of them are NOT viable at all.

Couldn’t be less true. Most of our access to burning is extremely viable. Rocket Kick, Fire bomb, Blowtorch, flamethrower skills, flame turret, and IP are pretty much all of our ways of applying burning, and other then turrets limitation, they are all extremely viable.

Looking at the list, you would be hard pressed to convince players that MOST of them are NOT viable as you suggest.

Only 1 is viable from range. Its a PvP thing

Agreed out of that list only IP is a viable ranged burn that you are pretty much guaranteed to get.

pheroth.5306:

coglin.1867:

K U T M.4539:

The only reason everyone took IP is because our DPS is kitten without the burning. We can get burning from other ways, but most of them are NOT viable at all.

Couldn’t be less true. Most of our access to burning is extremely viable. Rocket Kick, Fire bomb, Blowtorch, flamethrower skills, flame turret, and IP are pretty much all of our ways of applying burning, and other then turrets limitation, they are all extremely viable.

Looking at the list, you would be hard pressed to convince players that MOST of them are NOT viable as you suggest.

Only 1 is viable from range. Its a PvP thing

I can agree with the ranged aspect, although it was not mentioned previously. I play a fair bit of PvP, and I am unclear how this is a “PvP thing”, as I use both rocket boots and bomb kit at the same time, and I occasionally play a turret bunker build. I see P/P in PvP often, and I doubt most take off hand pistol over shields simply for glue shot.

This makes me a happy panda.

coglin.1867:

pheroth.5306:

coglin.1867:

K U T M.4539:

The only reason everyone took IP is because our DPS is kitten without the burning. We can get burning from other ways, but most of them are NOT viable at all.

Couldn’t be less true. Most of our access to burning is extremely viable. Rocket Kick, Fire bomb, Blowtorch, flamethrower skills, flame turret, and IP are pretty much all of our ways of applying burning, and other then turrets limitation, they are all extremely viable.

Looking at the list, you would be hard pressed to convince players that MOST of them are NOT viable as you suggest.

Only 1 is viable from range. Its a PvP thing

I can agree with the ranged aspect, although it was not mentioned previously. I play a fair bit of PvP, and I am unclear how this is a “PvP thing”, as I use both rocket boots and bomb kit at the same time, and I occasionally play a turret bunker build. I see P/P in PvP often, and I doubt most take off hand pistol over shields simply for glue shot.

I’m saying its a PvP thing because you usually dont have as much a problem getting close to mobs as opposed to other players who may be kiting you. Sometimes you may not even want to get close.

JonPeters.5630:

Incendiary Powder
It was simply forcing almost every engineer into 10 points in Explosives which was really hurting build diversity.

That makes no sense at all … shouldnt then other skills/traits be buffed in such a way that you would want to spend those 10 points in the respective traitline instead of those 10 points in explosives ?! …. instead of that you will be moving an overall good trait that could be an alternative and thus ruining certain builds and decreasing build variety ?!

Somebody explain Anet logic please …

PLEASE DO NOT GO THROUGH WITH THE CHANGE TO INCENDIARY POWDER

I understand it needs to be nerfed but because it’s so strong several almost-viable builds draw on it to be actually workable. It’s almost a part of the engi by now.

I wrote a post about an alternate method of nerfing a while ago: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Dhuumfire-and-Incendiary-Powder/first

Please consider this instead of the mess you’re doing now which kills so so many builds.

When you look at how many kit skills and how many of our weapons skills are extremely dependent upon conditions, it doesn’t make much sense to have to make the 20 point investment for this skill.

I wouldn’t mind investing more into Explosives, especially for the increased Condition Duration, IF the rest of the trait lines had more synergy that allowed me to also have good Condition Damage and be able to live. Engineer’s too squishy and unprotected to take away any dodging options. I also wouldn’t mind investing in Explosives if Napalm Specialist didn’t already give me more Condition Duration than what the stats of 30 points in Explosives gives. Please entice us by making it worth it, not by making it necessary. It’s too easy for my engi to die as it is.

Incoming nerf, still no viable stun breakers/stability, buggy as hell rocket boots. Nerfed for the sake of other nerfs. Killing a warrior without the burn damage is gonna suck.

If you are going to nerf IP then at least give us some good Adept traits. If I still go for IP – I feel I don’t have any good adept trait to pick up on the way.

And for all that is holly please fix the mortar #1 skill stop working bug. Some rework would be nice, but at least try to fix the bugs. Right now it is less then useless.

Get rid of the Elixir X random factor and maybe engineers will have 3 elite skills. For the first time since early beta.

Fix turrets because I liked the gw1 spirit ritualist play style.

Please see my suggested changes here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Engineer-what-can-be-changed/first#post3233957

Gumby.1708:

JonPeters.5630:

Incendiary Powder
It was simply forcing almost every engineer into 10 points in Explosives which was really hurting build diversity.

That makes no sense at all … shouldnt then other skills/traits be buffed in such a way that you would want to spend those 10 points in the respective traitline instead of those 10 points in explosives ?! …. instead of that you will be moving an overall good trait that could be an alternative and thus ruining certain builds and decreasing build variety ?!

Just about every mesmer takes Deceptive Evasion for the clone on dodge (and still would even if it was grandmaster). There are traits that just work very well with every class. Why aren’t these sorts of things on other classes also being bumped up a tier on other classes to promote “build diversity”?