Guild Wars 2

Fact 1: Engineers are the most nerfed class in the game.

Fact 2: All the decent builds are now gone, except for HGH.

Fact 3: Even if players have found ways to make new builds, every time they get nerfed.

Fact 4: Some mayor bugs like the Elixir S on Asuras and the kitten camera with the mortar are still there, why you nerf us and not fixing those HUGE bugs that actually affect the game play?

I love the class mechanics, but is really outrageous how devs are determined to destroy all the good things we have.

And yes this is another QQ topic about how Engis have the hate of the devs, so dont bother mention it.

This patch was actually pretty good :P Elixir S is the only real nerf and if it makes you feel better, look at ele’s

We can say we weren’t nerfed too much in quantity. Yet, the elixir S nerf is kinda heavy. The incendiary powder is simply nonsensical.
And many other classes have been buffed, so…in the best case, the situation is the same as before.

google.3709:

This patch was actually pretty good :P Elixir S is the only real nerf and if it makes you feel better, look at ele’s

It’s true that this patch wasn’t as big of a nerf as some have been, but elixir S was not the only real nerf. IP change is hard on HGH nades, and to a lesser extent, flamethrower in PvP. WvW confusion change is pretty big as well.

yah confussion was a big one, but also retal damage was cut in half as well at least. and tbh personally, im loving the new IP, 5.2s burning so 50% up time and with FT 100% up time pretty much

100% agreed with the creator of this thread. Devs either do not like the engineer, or they just do not understand the class. If you are a pistol/condi Engi like me, you should be furious. The pistol is weak now.

The nerf to confusion really makes the static shot useless. Also the explosive shot is slightly weaker if you trait the Incendiary Powder trait.

I understand most of the nerfs to elixir S. Except for not having the ability to heal which is overkill.

As of now, I do not know what the point of having an Engi in WvW is. Since there are so many more viable classes.

Why can’t I just slot another kit or ability instead of being forced to hold on to the Toy riffle or Nerf Pistol?

Good thing, I waited before buying my engi a full set of exotic gear.

I found it hilarious that the devs were completely fine with one skill completely nullifying the power of any engineer in pvp. Guardian uses shield of absorption, and engi guaranteed loses… And this is ok? Much love, devs, much love. Not every build requires a tool kit or should LEAN on a certain skill as that is imbalanced. Forcing a player to always have this skill is not how these games should be played and the devs have said this themselves.

google.3709:

yah confussion was a big one, but also retal damage was cut in half as well at least. and tbh personally, im loving the new IP, 5.2s burning so 50% up time and with FT 100% up time pretty much

It was 100% uptime before. The only thing that’s different now is that it’s easier to remove, which is what the patch aimed to accomplish since HGH nades was frustrating to play against, since no amount of condition removal was enough.

That was kinda the point. And every time there is a decent build for this class, they nerf it, either directly (grenade and kit refinement nerf) or indirectly (this patch).
While still buffing almost all the other classes. So, yeah, they definitely hate the class.

google.3709:

yah confussion was a big one, but also retal damage was cut in half as well at least. and tbh personally, im loving the new IP, 5.2s burning so 50% up time and with FT 100% up time pretty much

You do realize that the uptime on this proc was nerfed substantially, right? By like 20 – 60%?

edit: nvm they beat me to it

Primarily because they are balancing these classes now for a sPvP e-sport, and not listening to the PvE and WvW players as much, and these players with the highest skill ability are more likely to complain about what THEY consider to be game imbalancing factors without looking at the broader picture, like how to survive in Arah, or how a mid-statted Engie would contribute less to a party in any higher level fractal.

Or for that matter, how many Engies are playing their game.

If there had been a real effort to keep PvEers happy, this gap between sPvP and PvE would be much wider by now, and things like bleed caps and conditions in general would have been reworked to not be COMPLETELY USELESS in any end-game PvE content.

In an effort to prevent min-maxing and make the game “fun,” they have succeeded in letting the people who min-max anyway to dictate the nerfs for their associated classes.

This is where the Engineer is left out in the cold, because they were an after-thought, without the benefit of a focused set of professional abilities, s/he borrows from other classes, mostly with kitten versions of others abilities. Every OTHER profession has at least one pillar they can lean on for basic builds, something they can fall back on and be productive if they run with that in green armor and trinkets.

This is why the other professions, for the most part, are seeing buffs now, as the dev team goes back to those profession mission statements and says, “what is the professions primary mechanic, and what attention does it need?”

They go to the Engineers, and without actually paying attention to what they are looking for in their builds, they “balance” them based on the peaks, without looking seriously at the valleys. In this patch, we had a nerf of two of our only truly useful bunker skills, Elixir S (as you said) and the stealth on root trait. They also nerfed our healing turret, while pretending to buff it if you are able to keep it alive. Which is what we have been complaining about on ALL TURRETS SINCE DAY 1. They don’t scale with our builds, don’t crit, don’t move(that’s fine), don’t receive buffs, or heals or any other benefits from our actual builds except condition damage/duration on Flame turret (I haven’t tested this recently). With the exception of the guardians spirit weapons (which got a buff this patch) they are the most useless pet mechanic in the game, hands down.

And the Engies are back on this forum as well as countless others confused as to why HGH didn’t get nerfed (or an SD cool-down which I completely expected), because we all expected that, but the bunkers among us can’t believe that Elixir S got the hammer. We don’t have the heals to sustain a bunker build without using S the way we have, and this will be reflected in play and engineer population.

This is an issue with selection effects as much as anything else, if any ANet employee is reading this, please consider actually data-mining information on who is running which skills, traits, food, runes, and sigils on their builds and the success or failure of those individual skills against how many engineers you have lost because people considered them unplayable. Also consider the average skill of your player base when making this decisions in the future, don’t just cater to the OEs among us.

lunyboy.8672:

Primarily because they are balancing these classes now for a sPvP e-sport, and not listening to the PvE and WvW players as much, and these players with the highest skill ability are more likely to complain about what THEY consider to be game imbalancing factors without looking at the broader picture, like how to survive in Arah, or how a mid-statted Engie would contribute less to a party in any higher level fractal.

Or for that matter, how many Engies are playing their game.

If there had been a real effort to keep PvEers happy, this gap between sPvP and PvE would be much wider by now, and things like bleed caps and conditions in general would have been reworked to not be COMPLETELY USELESS in any end-game PvE content.

In an effort to prevent min-maxing and make the game “fun,” they have succeeded in letting the people who min-max anyway to dictate the nerfs for their associated classes.

This is where the Engineer is left out in the cold, because they were an after-thought, without the benefit of a focused set of professional abilities, s/he borrows from other classes, mostly with kitten versions of others abilities. Every OTHER profession has at least one pillar they can lean on for basic builds, something they can fall back on and be productive if they run with that in green armor and trinkets.

This is why the other professions, for the most part, are seeing buffs now, as the dev team goes back to those profession mission statements and says, “what is the professions primary mechanic, and what attention does it need?”

They go to the Engineers, and without actually paying attention to what they are looking for in their builds, they “balance” them based on the peaks, without looking seriously at the valleys. In this patch, we had a nerf of two of our only truly useful bunker skills, Elixir S (as you said) and the stealth on root trait. They also nerfed our healing turret, while pretending to buff it if you are able to keep it alive. Which is what we have been complaining about on ALL TURRETS SINCE DAY 1. They don’t scale with our builds, don’t crit, don’t move(that’s fine), don’t receive buffs, or heals or any other benefits from our actual builds except condition damage/duration on Flame turret (I haven’t tested this recently). With the exception of the guardians spirit weapons (which got a buff this patch) they are the most useless pet mechanic in the game, hands down.

And the Engies are back on this forum as well as countless others confused as to why HGH didn’t get nerfed (or an SD cool-down which I completely expected), because we all expected that, but the bunkers among us can’t believe that Elixir S got the hammer. We don’t have the heals to sustain a bunker build without using S the way we have, and this will be reflected in play and engineer population.

This is an issue with selection effects as much as anything else, if any ANet employee is reading this, please consider actually data-mining information on who is running which skills, traits, food, runes, and sigils on their builds and the success or failure of those individual skills against how many engineers you have lost because people considered them unplayable. Also consider the average skill of your player base when making this decisions in the future, don’t just cater to the OEs among us.

they are balancing for each WvW, PvE, and PvP

get your facts straight

Yeah I’m going to roll another class. What everyone doesn’t realize is they nerfed the hell out of HgH with the other classes. Thieves can steal boons now and my thief friend just said “oh man I can strip 2 boons every 3 seconds”, on top of buffing every signet in the game (none of which we get) which really helps with their build diversity. Then warriors are getting boonhate.

Turrets are still pretty poor in every aspect in the game because they are immobile and quite frankly don’t do a whole lot in the way of utility (which is important because unlike other classes, we don’t get weaponswitch). They are still on long cooldowns, don’t do a whole lot of damage, get owned quickly with anyone class that can do AoE. The healing turret is nice, but considering how many times I’ve been in boss fights and they run straight to my turrets (out of 20 people that are fighting a boss). They buff signets? That is awesome…oh wait we don’t have any signets. My thief friends and warrior friends are having a blast. Warriors deserved it, thieves could care less about mug with the amount of buffs they got. Mesmers got a moa buff (that is going to go great in the way of fighting a mesmer 1v1). Engineer got a healing turret buff and a lot of tooltip fixes. Sigh.

hackks.3687:

lunyboy.8672:

Primarily because they are balancing these classes now for a sPvP e-sport, and not listening to the PvE and WvW players as much, and these players with the highest skill ability are more likely to complain about what THEY consider to be game imbalancing factors without looking at the broader picture, like how to survive in Arah, or how a mid-statted Engie would contribute less to a party in any higher level fractal.

Or for that matter, how many Engies are playing their game.

If there had been a real effort to keep PvEers happy, this gap between sPvP and PvE would be much wider by now, and things like bleed caps and conditions in general would have been reworked to not be COMPLETELY USELESS in any end-game PvE content.

In an effort to prevent min-maxing and make the game “fun,” they have succeeded in letting the people who min-max anyway to dictate the nerfs for their associated classes.

This is where the Engineer is left out in the cold, because they were an after-thought, without the benefit of a focused set of professional abilities, s/he borrows from other classes, mostly with kitten versions of others abilities. Every OTHER profession has at least one pillar they can lean on for basic builds, something they can fall back on and be productive if they run with that in green armor and trinkets.

This is why the other professions, for the most part, are seeing buffs now, as the dev team goes back to those profession mission statements and says, “what is the professions primary mechanic, and what attention does it need?”

They go to the Engineers, and without actually paying attention to what they are looking for in their builds, they “balance” them based on the peaks, without looking seriously at the valleys. In this patch, we had a nerf of two of our only truly useful bunker skills, Elixir S (as you said) and the stealth on root trait. They also nerfed our healing turret, while pretending to buff it if you are able to keep it alive. Which is what we have been complaining about on ALL TURRETS SINCE DAY 1. They don’t scale with our builds, don’t crit, don’t move(that’s fine), don’t receive buffs, or heals or any other benefits from our actual builds except condition damage/duration on Flame turret (I haven’t tested this recently). With the exception of the guardians spirit weapons (which got a buff this patch) they are the most useless pet mechanic in the game, hands down.

And the Engies are back on this forum as well as countless others confused as to why HGH didn’t get nerfed (or an SD cool-down which I completely expected), because we all expected that, but the bunkers among us can’t believe that Elixir S got the hammer. We don’t have the heals to sustain a bunker build without using S the way we have, and this will be reflected in play and engineer population.

This is an issue with selection effects as much as anything else, if any ANet employee is reading this, please consider actually data-mining information on who is running which skills, traits, food, runes, and sigils on their builds and the success or failure of those individual skills against how many engineers you have lost because people considered them unplayable. Also consider the average skill of your player base when making this decisions in the future, don’t just cater to the OEs among us.

they are balancing for each WvW, PvE, and PvP

get your facts straight

They have been, my point is, running in WvW or sPvP is not a dungeon, and skills that need nerfed in sPvP don’t need nerfed in PvE.

I have my facts straight, perhaps you should read more closely.

The noise surrounding the Incendiary Powder nerf was a lot more than necessary. The trait is still worth taking, and the change to Elixir S is hardly a big deal.

The buffs to the Healing Turret and its toolbelt skills is significantly more huge. The Water field now lasts 5 seconds. Cleansing Burst removes 2 conditions every 15 versus a cleanse every 60. Regenerating Mist was lowered from a 60 second cooldown to a 25. Elixir U was fixed and has a longer duration.

I’m a happy camper. I think I can finally ditch the Med Kit and use the Healing Turret entirely in PvE.

Honestly, I’m in love with the new IP, its a matter of playing it. they balanced IMO in a decent way that did not completely destroyed the trait and made it accessible to more builds

if anyone has failed to see, HGH still exist, that’s a HUGE win considering what has happened to everyother build for the past 9 months,

lunyboy.8672:

Primarily because they are balancing these classes now for a sPvP e-sport, and not listening to the PvE and WvW players as much, and these players with the highest skill ability are more likely to complain about what THEY consider to be game imbalancing factors without looking at the broader picture, like how to survive in Arah, or how a mid-statted Engie would contribute less to a party in any higher level fractal.

Or for that matter, how many Engies are playing their game.

If there had been a real effort to keep PvEers happy, this gap between sPvP and PvE would be much wider by now, and things like bleed caps and conditions in general would have been reworked to not be COMPLETELY USELESS in any end-game PvE content.

In an effort to prevent min-maxing and make the game “fun,” they have succeeded in letting the people who min-max anyway to dictate the nerfs for their associated classes.

This is where the Engineer is left out in the cold, because they were an after-thought, without the benefit of a focused set of professional abilities, s/he borrows from other classes, mostly with kitten versions of others abilities. Every OTHER profession has at least one pillar they can lean on for basic builds, something they can fall back on and be productive if they run with that in green armor and trinkets.

This is why the other professions, for the most part, are seeing buffs now, as the dev team goes back to those profession mission statements and says, “what is the professions primary mechanic, and what attention does it need?”

They go to the Engineers, and without actually paying attention to what they are looking for in their builds, they “balance” them based on the peaks, without looking seriously at the valleys. In this patch, we had a nerf of two of our only truly useful bunker skills, Elixir S (as you said) and the stealth on root trait. They also nerfed our healing turret, while pretending to buff it if you are able to keep it alive. Which is what we have been complaining about on ALL TURRETS SINCE DAY 1. They don’t scale with our builds, don’t crit, don’t move(that’s fine), don’t receive buffs, or heals or any other benefits from our actual builds except condition damage/duration on Flame turret (I haven’t tested this recently). With the exception of the guardians spirit weapons (which got a buff this patch) they are the most useless pet mechanic in the game, hands down.

And the Engies are back on this forum as well as countless others confused as to why HGH didn’t get nerfed (or an SD cool-down which I completely expected), because we all expected that, but the bunkers among us can’t believe that Elixir S got the hammer. We don’t have the heals to sustain a bunker build without using S the way we have, and this will be reflected in play and engineer population.

This is an issue with selection effects as much as anything else, if any ANet employee is reading this, please consider actually data-mining information on who is running which skills, traits, food, runes, and sigils on their builds and the success or failure of those individual skills against how many engineers you have lost because people considered them unplayable. Also consider the average skill of your player base when making this decisions in the future, don’t just cater to the OEs among us.

Well said.
And sadly very true.
This profession has no direction and the Devs do not seem to even be interested in it at all.

Deified.7520:

My thief friends and warrior friends are having a blast. Warriors deserved it, thieves could care less about mug with the amount of buffs they got.

Are you for real? Shortbow is nerfed completely into the ground.

While I actually agree that they have a long way to go especially in PVE. They’ve made some changes to the class that are positive and in our favor. And their separation is long over due.

So here’s to hoping they continue down this path of common sense and bring this class back around to where it was at launch. Condi damage needs work next. (bleeds should not have a cap in 5 mans and should not do more damage on other classes unbuilt unspecced setups).

Phineas Poe.3018:

the change to Elixir S is hardly a big deal..

In PvE, maybe . . .

This change both hits the Elixir and the auto-elixir trait where I could go into med-kit, which gave me heal-packs, speed, 1 condition remove, vigor if traited – no big deal, of course . . .

I don’t see the big deal with the Incendiary powder trait change. I’m using a condition build without grenades and I’ll still be able to keep burning up with blowtorch from pistol and Incendiary powder and 30-70% condition duration.

kokocabana.8153:

I don’t see the big deal with the Incendiary powder trait change. I’m using a condition build without grenades and I’ll still be able to keep burning up with blowtorch from pistol and Incendiary powder and 30-70% condition duration.

The nerf was aimed at the tournament build. It will be fine in PvE. Even in WvW the change won’t be too noticeable, since people don’t usually have a lot of condition removal in WvW. It can even be a buff to low-crit or slow-hitting builds, basically anything besides flamethrower and nades.

The nerf to confusion and retaliation in WvWvW actually opens up more grenades and flamethrower. Too many engineers were downing themselves.

I am extremely ashamed of this thread, guys. And I think all of you guys should wake up and smell the napalm. Here are the real facts:

• I can actually run Kit Based condi builds now, since healing turret can remove up to 8 conditions per minute, in chunks of 2 every 15s. This is a time to celebrate. Turret & gadget builds are indirectly less terrible now, too, from this huge healing turret buff.

• Bunker/support builds are amazing now, too. The healing turret, in addition to the base 2520 self healing, is like a 2520-3820 AoE base heal & condition clear for allies every 15-20 seconds, respectively. Clerics/shaman amulet healing is monstrous.

• Incendiary powder change, I dig. I am ok with loading someone up with 6 seconds of burning on my very first opener, since it’s 100% proc chance.

Engineer is one of the Strongest classes with more options than HGH.

Chaba.5410:

The nerf to confusion and retaliation in WvWvW actually opens up more grenades and flamethrower. Too many engineers were downing themselves.

The confusion change doesn’t affect grenades/flamethrower more than anything else, it triggers per-skill use. The retaliation change is the big one there.

Chaith.8256:

I am extremely ashamed of this thread, guys. And I think all of you guys should wake up and smell the napalm. Here are the real facts:

• I can actually run Kit Based condi builds now, since healing turret can remove up to 8 conditions per minute, in chunks of 2 every 15s. This is a time to celebrate. Turret & gadget builds are indirectly less terrible now, too, from this huge healing turret buff.

• Bunker/support builds are amazing now, too. The healing turret, in addition to the base 2520 self healing, is like a 2520-3820 AoE base heal & condition clear for allies every 15-20 seconds, respectively. Clerics/shaman amulet healing is monstrous.

• Incendiary powder change, I dig. I am ok with loading someone up with 6 seconds of burning on my very first opener, since it’s 100% proc chance.

Engineer is one of the Strongest classes with more options than HGH.

THIS. So many builds became viable with the change to healing turret. I’m a very happy engi.

Furthermore, the only thing “nerfed” about hgh is the new incendiary powder and elixir S. Both are big hits to HGH but it’s still viable. It’s just not monstrously OP anymore.

The confusion damage reduction only affect static shot for me. It was great to bounce it off of a ranger and pet or thieves trying to burst. On the flip side, hopefully this tones down mesmers.

Chaith.8256:

I am extremely ashamed of this thread, guys.

You should know, there´s more to this game than tPvP point-defense.

Another thing I like about the heal turret change. When I was stacking blast finishers, the heal turret would make that water field when i didn’t want it to. Like when i was stacking stealth or Might. Now I can get the water field when I want to. Also the water field last longer so I have more room to work with.

Chaith.8256:

I am extremely ashamed of this thread, guys. And I think all of you guys should wake up and smell the napalm. Here are the real facts:

• I can actually run Kit Based condi builds now, since healing turret can remove up to 8 conditions per minute, in chunks of 2 every 15s. This is a time to celebrate. Turret & gadget builds are indirectly less terrible now, too, from this huge healing turret buff.

• Bunker/support builds are amazing now, too. The healing turret, in addition to the base 2520 self healing, is like a 2520-3820 AoE base heal & condition clear for allies every 15-20 seconds, respectively. Clerics/shaman amulet healing is monstrous.

• Incendiary powder change, I dig. I am ok with loading someone up with 6 seconds of burning on my very first opener, since it’s 100% proc chance.

Engineer is one of the Strongest classes with more options than HGH.

old effect of Cleansing Burst: (from the wiki which hasnt updated to the new effect)

Overcharge your healing turret, supplying a burst of healing that cures all conditions.

Healing: 1,302 (0.2)?
Radius: 360

Thats also a 15sec cooldown.

So, lets recap.

-We went from all conditions removed, to 2.
-We went from most healing upfront, to a potential 3sec delay on half of your healing. (Screw your “i can spam buttan!”, join wvw, enjoy skill delay!)
-We got the full heal before, and 1.3k on overcharge. Now we get 50% upfront and the same on overcharge… so, where did the 1.3k overcharge we had before go?

I really dont see the buff here…

Yea, the patch seems a weird mix of nerfs and buffs, like the healing turret was nerfed to be buffed (or buffed to be nerfed).

Terrahero.9358: stop spreading misinformation

Someone changed the wiki already .. from 60 second cd to 15 sec cd
Heal turret never removed all condition

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Cleansing_Burst&diff=566772&oldid=566335

Cleansing Burst tooltip always said it cures all conditions.

Terrahero.9358:

Overcharge your healing turret, supplying a burst of healing that cures all conditions.

Healing: 1,302 (0.2)?
Radius: 360

Thats also a 15sec cooldown.

So, lets recap.

-We went from all conditions removed, to 2.
-We went from most healing upfront, to a potential 3sec delay on half of your healing. (Screw your “i can spam buttan!”, join wvw, enjoy skill delay!)
-We got the full heal before, and 1.3k on overcharge. Now we get 50% upfront and the same on overcharge… so, where did the 1.3k overcharge we had before go?

I really dont see the buff here…

They’re right, it was a very significant buff. The old overcharge was on a 60 second cooldown, so healing turret could not be used as a condition removal source in any reliable way except for one cleanse per fight. Having half of your heal also affect allies is undeniably a buff. I’ll have a hard time giving up my point preparation from med kit in my bunker build, but we’ll see how it pans out. Healing turret could be very powerful now in PvP.

Chaba.5410:

Cleansing Burst tooltip always said it cures all conditions.

And Scopes tooltip says it gives 10% crit chance when you stand still.

It has always removed 2 condition from the 1800+ hrs I have played on my Engineer.

Incediary powder , hard to call it a buff with all condition dispells every class can use.
I was able to proc it every time my enemy dispelled it.
Now,if they dispell it right after it proc,i must wait 9 seconds.Nice one.I don’t know if take it as a balance , or take it as a dps denial.But not a buff for sure!

Healing turret looks nice i must admit it.On the other hand elixier H is still unbeatble,is just a single click , while healing turret requires the time for deploy,overcharge,explosion(from a WvW prospective).

Confusion nerf….was prevedible . Still if an engineer is running only with P/P cond dmg set without an useless kit equipped , the #3 pistol skill lost his offensive/defensive potential (no all engeneer were running bombs or tool kit + pistol just to stack confusion like mad).

I’ll just take a break from engineer till my pessimism is gone , playing my easy mode thief or mesmer in the while , just to avoid useless headhache on what set should i invent now.

Sorry for my english.

Terrahero.9358:

Chaith.8256:

I am extremely ashamed of this thread, guys. And I think all of you guys should wake up and smell the napalm. Here are the real facts:

• I can actually run Kit Based condi builds now, since healing turret can remove up to 8 conditions per minute, in chunks of 2 every 15s. This is a time to celebrate. Turret & gadget builds are indirectly less terrible now, too, from this huge healing turret buff.

• Bunker/support builds are amazing now, too. The healing turret, in addition to the base 2520 self healing, is like a 2520-3820 AoE base heal & condition clear for allies every 15-20 seconds, respectively. Clerics/shaman amulet healing is monstrous.

• Incendiary powder change, I dig. I am ok with loading someone up with 6 seconds of burning on my very first opener, since it’s 100% proc chance.

Engineer is one of the Strongest classes with more options than HGH.

old effect of Cleansing Burst: (from the wiki which hasnt updated to the new effect)

Overcharge your healing turret, supplying a burst of healing that cures all conditions.

Healing: 1,302 (0.2)?
Radius: 360

Thats also a 15sec cooldown.

So, lets recap.

-We went from all conditions removed, to 2.
-We went from most healing upfront, to a potential 3sec delay on half of your healing. (Screw your “i can spam buttan!”, join wvw, enjoy skill delay!)
-We got the full heal before, and 1.3k on overcharge. Now we get 50% upfront and the same on overcharge… so, where did the 1.3k overcharge we had before go?

I really dont see the buff here…

We went from 2 condis removed every minute to 2 condis removed every 15 seconds. We went from healing up front to 50% healing up front, 50% AoE healing immediately after with 2 condi clears and 5 s of regen (this is better than evasive arcana in water attunement, this is ridiculously strong as both support and self-heals) AND a near permanent water field interactable with the turret itself for detonation as well as other party members.

As far as skill delay goes, I can’t help that. No clue why it wouldn’t have effected the new healing turret more than the old one though. Seems like it doesn’t really have any bearing on the new turret really.

Honestly, how can you guys not be happy? This alone is a huge buff that opens up so many possible builds. I’m excited to finally have something to look forward to outside HGH.

Nirvana.8659:

Incediary powder , hard to call it a buff with all condition dispells every class can use.
I was able to proc it every time my enemy dispelled it.
Now,if they dispell it right after it proc,i must wait 9 seconds.Nice one.I don’t know if take it as a balance , or take it as a dps denial.But not a buff for sure!

Healing turret looks nice i must admit it.On the other hand elixier H is still unbeatble,is just a single click , while healing turret requires the time for deploy,overcharge,explosion(from a WvW prospective).

Confusion nerf….was prevedible . Still if an engineer is running only with P/P cond dmg set without an useless kit equipped , the #3 pistol skill lost his offensive/defensive potential (no all engeneer were running bombs or tool kit + pistol just to stack confusion like mad).

I’ll just take a break from engineer till my pessimism is gone , playing my easy mode thief or mesmer in the while , just to avoid useless headhache on what set should i invent now.

Sorry for my english.

There’s only a .5 second cast time on healing turret and both the overcharge and the detonate have no cast time allowing a very rapid heal. One button doesn’t make H better.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Having half of your heal also affect allies is undeniably a buff.

I doubt the change includes that. Has anyone been able to test?

Ostricheggs.3742:

This alone is a huge buff that opens up so many possible builds. I’m excited to finally have something to look forward to outside HGH.

I agree with you, but even though this one buff is very significant, it’s still just one buff. Almost everyone had something in their build get nerfed, even if only slightly. The healing turret changes are the most significant for tournaments, and relatively few people, especially engineers on this forum, play tourneys.

Don’t forget that WvW is still several times more popular than tournaments and most engineers go p/p in WvW. Confusion nerf alone is a large nerf to one of the main skills in WvW builds.

Leablo.2651:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Having half of your heal also affect allies is undeniably a buff.

I doubt the change includes that. Has anyone been able to test?

The healing turret skill now does half healing on main activation and half healing on the overcharge, which also affects allies. Since the overcharge CD is shorter than the turrect CD, there’s no reason not to use it every time you drop the healing turret. In effect, healing turret now shares half of the heal with allies.

More patch day histrionics from the Engi section. Also, I don’t think those “facts” are actually facts.

This wasn’t a bad patch for us. As stated above, it opens up some possibilities. We’ll have to see just how much, but it didn’t obliterate any build(s) and it gave us a nice tweak and a couple fixes. Yea, a couple nerfs—but they were completely justified.

Not much to see here. Back to blowing things up.

NickDollahZ.5348:

Chaba.5410:

Cleansing Burst tooltip always said it cures all conditions.

And Scopes tooltip says it gives 10% crit chance when you stand still.

It has always removed 2 condition from the 1800+ hrs I have played on my Engineer.

Yea… That’s why I wrote tooltip without specifically saying the actual effect. No need to be sarcastic. Next time I will be more explicit and write something like “This is not to say that the actual effect removed all conditions, only to point out that the tooltip is confusing.”

Just dicard Elixer S. It only give you 3 sec immortality but takes a slot and has pretty big cooldown. Ill miss the invi potion, but there is better stuff now.

The healing turret is nice just in theory.
In practice, especially in high level fractals, any enemy WILL destroy it before its effect can even recharge.
And the radius isn’t that good anyway. People aren’t going to stay near that turret while enemies cast aoe and such things.

The so called “buff” to the healing turret is still useless, take like 3 or 4 seconds to put the water field, if you want to remove conditions go with the elixir gun.

But thieves and warriors get buffs… Seriously? Come on…

the condi removal and group aoe healing is a major improvement to the heal turret. it has definitely made it a niche healing skill though, best used for larger team fights, which makes the notion of having the overcharge available every 15sec on CD a bit of a farce. There’s absolutely no way that turret will survive on point for the entire duration of the overcharge CD. Blowing it up before the end of the water field will still be the most effective and efficient way to use it.

my suspicion is that the spike heal potential for coordinated teams will go through the roof, and filling the time between with super elixir and fumigate will make Ele’s pre nerf aoe healing/cleansing look like child’s play.

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by inattention.

ANet really are trying to improve the Eng class. They just seem to be a) aiming for some incomplete PvP concept for the class; b) applying that to WvW and PvE regardless of how well it fits there; and c) overlooking (or ignoring) the discussion on this forum about the class.

I dunno… all the engie nerfs were humorous in how out of place they were at first, but as of late it has just flat out felt malicious. Like someone who played Engies made the devs mad and they want to punish the whole class for it.

Almost every patch has felt… personal.

hydeaut.1758:

This change both hits the Elixir and the auto-elixir trait where I could go into med-kit, which gave me heal-packs, speed, 1 condition remove, vigor if traited – no big deal, of course . . .

I don’t really see how you think a traited Elixir S having a stunbreaker, curing a condition, granting 2 stacks of Might, and giving 3-second immunity isn’t powerful enough on its own … on top of adding another stack of Might, curing another condition, and giving Stability/Stealth all in one utility slot.

This is QQ. Plain and simple.

Elixir S was changed alongside Mist Form because they do not want these skills to work like that. Not sure why people are so up in arms about this change.