Guild Wars 2

When I speak of CC I mostly speak of slick shoes and and OC shot. I was in a PvP match and was discussing with an engi about OC shot being a little too strong. He was insisting that none (but me) thinks it’s too strong and that if we do nerf it, it will harm the non-meta builds more. All I was suggesting was a telegraph and a 1/4 cast time to allow a little bit of counter play to it. He did agree that slick shoes was too strong but I didn’t know how to tone it down. Does the engi community agree that our CC needs to be adjusted or am I by myself here?

Using slick shoes you’re sacraficing much more (eg. kit), so it shouldn’t be too weak.
OC shot – 12 or 15sec cooldown, 1 target, it knocks you down as well. Now compare it to warrior’s hammer…

Also take into account OC shot’s crappy reach..

Lert.6287:

Using slick shoes you’re sacraficing much more (eg. kit), so it shouldn’t be too weak.
OC shot – 12 or 15sec cooldown, 1 target, it knocks you down as well. Now compare it to warrior’s hammer…

cross-class comparison’s rarely work well due to the different mechanics and roles/play styles each class have. I’m not saying we should gut the skill completely, but I feel that in it’s current state it is too hard to dodge (instant) and on a short CD to boot. Adding a telegraph and 1/4 second cast time gives it some counter play (which if we doing class comparisons, the warrior hammer has long telegraphed cast times).

I don’t get the gripe with OS, yes it’s a strong combo initiator and great cc but that’s balanced with the self knockback… Can leave you very vulnerable if missed or blocked unless you use your (probably only) stun break…

I value it alot as a SD engi and always back it up with PBR … Noone complains about PBR. It’s just as good (direct comparison… I know it takes up a utility slot. Differences being that PBR has longer cd, shorter range but gains a toolbelt projectile and loses self KB.

All things considered… For alot of builds to work, you kind of need all the cc we have to stop your face melting… Mostly from getting cced ourselves (v little stab or stunbreak) or condi spammed.

Ocs has a drawback: kb; in an attack situation you need to make a decision afterwards, use or not use your stunbreak to take advantage of the situation for a high risk/high reward.

Usually you bring only 1 stunbreaker so you can use that combo only one time and if you do and understimate your opponent you’ll be easily doomed.

Anyway keep in mind there’s a lot of stability, energy sigils and 80+vigor uptime out there, and you can easily miss an ocs. Some class usually brings 2 stunbreaker too.

Besides necros.

No, not really. It is one of our profession strengths.

If the trade off was gaining some condition cleanse, which is one of our professional weaknesses, that is another story.

I feel the profession balances out in that manner of having a solid strength and an obvious weakness.

slicky? no. overcharge? no.

the combo of slicky, overcharge, magnet, crate, net, crates net, and about 5 other sources of soft cc? maybe yeah.

Taking Slick Shoes and Rifle + Toolkit together, when you focus a build on CC overload, that’s exponentially stronger for every CC you can put up PAST what the target can counter, or breakstun.

It’s a matter of Engies investing in CC to the fullest, and while individually the utilities & weapons are in line, the focused intent often counters (fully juggle) single breakstun enemies with no Stab, (Engi, Shout War, Ranger). Especially if they use their breakstun with little foresight.

the most broken thing in gw2 is stealth on thieves, as long this is not beeing changed, nothing can be oped compared to that.

OC shot is the same like in beta and in those 2 jears nobody complained about it.
As long as engineers have the worst accesss to stability, this skill is fine.
I have all classes on level 80, engineer is by far the most difficult and has alot very hard disadvantages like condition cleanse and stability.

I admit, I find it hilarious that the Engineer’s CC became a hot topic, when barely anything changed on that matter for a looooooong time.

No. CC is cute and all. But it’s pretty useless in pve. It’s fancy in wvw however cc =/= actually killing, you just buy time. The only time a CC engineer build was good, overpowered even, was through Perplexity runes. But that was a problem with those runes being just to good, and not engineers.

And that’s where the moaning in pvp comes from. Where knocking someone out of a small circle and keeping them out of the circle, just buying time, is worth a kitten . So expect nerfs regardless.

OC needs a tell. I’ll be content when it does. Until then, its ability to initiate a chain stun combination is ridiculous. And if they fail to kill you with it, they’ll decap your point regardless.

The only way to dodge it is to get lucky, and no knockdown skill should have that kind of perk. Especially not one on a 15sec cd that’s attached to a weapon skill resulting in zero sacrifice to use it.

Kagamiku.9731:

OC needs a tell. I’ll be content when it does. Until then, its ability to initiate a chain stun combination is ridiculous. And if they fail to kill you with it, they’ll decap your point regardless.

The only way to dodge it is to get lucky, and no knockdown skill should have that kind of perk. Especially not one on a 15sec cd that’s attached to a weapon skill resulting in zero sacrifice to use it.

If you ask me self-knockback is sacrafice. On top of that getting close to target using weapon that should be ranged is another one.

Lert.6287:

Kagamiku.9731:

OC needs a tell. I’ll be content when it does. Until then, its ability to initiate a chain stun combination is ridiculous. And if they fail to kill you with it, they’ll decap your point regardless.

The only way to dodge it is to get lucky, and no knockdown skill should have that kind of perk. Especially not one on a 15sec cd that’s attached to a weapon skill resulting in zero sacrifice to use it.

If you ask me self-knockback is sacrafice. On top of that getting close to target using weapon that should be ranged is another one.

It’s not a sacrifice when the engineer is not knocked back the same distance and he also is able to get up before the player he knocked down, providing him enough time to chain something off. It’s annoying enough that they can force a decap with it, but they can even kill you with it if you lack stab or a stunbreak.

Engineers can fight on point, being in melee range is no problem. If the person fighting you is off point, then you’re just going to cap the point anywyas.

The fact that it cures movement impeding conditions is icing on the cake.

You do realise there are skills that do the same as OC (or better), but do not self stun/knockback? In this comparsion OC seems to be underpowered, not overpowered. Thanks for unwittingly pointing that out.

You mentioned that skills similar to OC exist and did not list any. Please explain.

I’m pretty sure OC is the only knockdown I am unable to dodge due to there being zero tell. It’s one of the main reasons that make engineer OP. Along with IP and the three second shield block.

Kagamiku.9731:

You mentioned that skills similar to OC exist and did not list any. Please explain.

I’m pretty sure OC is the only knockdown I am unable to dodge due to there being zero tell. It’s one of the main reasons that make engineer OP. Along with IP and the three second shield block.

There aren’t abilities that work exactly like Overcharged Shot, but there are tons of un-telegraphed CC chain initiators.

(No-telegraph) Staggering Blow into Backbreaker/Earthshaker.

(No-telegraph) Fear Me into ____.

(No-telegraph) Nightmare Rune (6), or Doom into Fear Mark.

(No-telegraph) Updraft, into Earthquake.

They commonly share the characteristic of being quite close range, 130-400. If you don’t have the stunbreaks ready for somebody’s combo, get away from them.

Overcharged Shot is clearly a really strong skill given the 15s cooldown. I have always suggested an increase to 20s, but the rest of the Rifle is quite an inconsistent weapon compared to how strong Overcharged Shot is. Overcharged Shot really carries the weapon, if you know what I mean.

Staggering blow has a telegraph.

Fear me is on a 60sec cooldown that requires a secondary skill to make use of. Save your stunbreak or stab for it and it will never be an issue. The 15 second cd of OS coupled with the zero tell is what makes the skill so ridiculous. You’ll never have enough stunbreaks or stab to stop it. Fear me also uses a utility slot, unlike OS which is part of the rifle weapon skillset. Plus all the fear skills can be condition cleaned as well.

A rune, really? It’s also on an extremely long cooldown and only lasts two seconds. And funny enough, it’s being nerfed next patch.

40second cd means save one stunbreak and it will never mean anything to you.

So yeah, I consider all those skills to be far weaker than OS.

Nothing in the game might be more OP than slick shoes. I refuse to use it on my Engi because of how cheeseball it is.

Kagamiku.9731:

Staggering blow has a telegraph.

Fear me is on a 60sec cooldown that requires a secondary skill to make use of. Save your stunbreak or stab for it and it will never be an issue. The 15 second cd of OS coupled with the zero tell is what makes the skill so ridiculous. You’ll never have enough stunbreaks or stab to stop it. Fear me also uses a utility slot, unlike OS which is part of the rifle weapon skillset.

A rune, really? It’s also on an extremely long cooldown and only lasts two seconds. And funny enough, it’s being nerfed next patch.

40second cd means save one stunbreak and it will never mean anything to you.

So yeah, I consider all those skills to be far weaker than OS.

I merely offered common CC chains that you can’t reactively dodge.

If you want to compare ability v. ability, Doom’s 3s fear on a 17 cool down is just as individually strong as OC. But comparing by ability doesn’t make much sense, anymore than comparing by weapon, or any other small context.

The problem with Engi CC is that it keeps the enemy using stunbreaks on overcharged shot, and it leaves them vulnerable to being juggled by slick shoes.

Rifle is not so overwhelming by itself. Professions that bring 2 stunbreaks have to eat 3 overcharged overcharged shots in a row in order to get combo’d by a lone rifle engi. This makes Rifle require a sustainable build to even start getting the CC it’s balanced around landing.

When an Engi brings only slick shoes, and no rifle, save a single cooldown for that, and you’re golden.

Vs. An Engi with rifle and slick shoes, who’s landing everything, your stunbreaks will be overwhelmed. It becomes a matter if you can predict overcharged shot and blind/dodge it. If that happens even once, though, the Engi loses the overwhelm factor.

Professions like AcroThief/Mes bring the tools to completely negate Engi CC, for example.

Meta Cele Rifle build can take a shave to the cooldown on OC of like, 5 seconds. Outside that it’d cease to be a better strategy than Rabid builds. I think that it’s ideal they be balanced at the same strength.

Chaith.8256:

Kagamiku.9731:

Staggering blow has a telegraph.

Fear me is on a 60sec cooldown that requires a secondary skill to make use of. Save your stunbreak or stab for it and it will never be an issue. The 15 second cd of OS coupled with the zero tell is what makes the skill so ridiculous. You’ll never have enough stunbreaks or stab to stop it. Fear me also uses a utility slot, unlike OS which is part of the rifle weapon skillset.

A rune, really? It’s also on an extremely long cooldown and only lasts two seconds. And funny enough, it’s being nerfed next patch.

40second cd means save one stunbreak and it will never mean anything to you.

So yeah, I consider all those skills to be far weaker than OS.

I merely offered common CC chains that you can’t reactively dodge.

If you want to compare ability v. ability, Doom’s 3s fear on a 17 cool down is just as individually strong as OC. But comparing by ability doesn’t make much sense, anymore than comparing by weapon, or any other small context.

The problem with Engi CC is that it keeps the enemy using stunbreaks on overcharged shot, and it leaves them vulnerable to being juggled by slick shoes.

Rifle is not so overwhelming by itself. Professions that bring 2 stunbreaks have to eat 3 overcharged overcharged shots in a row in order to get combo’d by a lone rifle engi. This makes Rifle require a sustainable build to even start getting the CC it’s balanced around landing.

When an Engi brings only slick shoes, and no rifle, save a single cooldown for that, and you’re golden.

Vs. An Engi with rifle and slick shoes, who’s landing everything, your stunbreaks will be overwhelmed. It becomes a matter if you can predict overcharged shot and blind/dodge it. If that happens even once, though, the Engi loses the overwhelm factor.

Professions like AcroThief/Mes bring the tools to completely negate Engi CC, for example.

Meta Cele Rifle build can take a shave to the cooldown on OC of like, 5 seconds. Outside that it’d cease to be a better strategy than Rabid builds. I think that it’s ideal they be balanced at the same strength.

Doom isn’t comparable because it’s a death shroud skill. Not only do they not always have access to the skill, but they have greater limitations while in Death Shroud. Engi on the other hand has OS at all times and can be used each time it goes off cooldown. Plus the tooltip states that Doom is a 1 1/2 seconds fear on a 20second cd so it would require a lot of traiting for it to reach a 3 second fear on a 17second cd. OS is as good as it is with zero trait investment.

Give OS a 1/2 second tell like staggering blow or increase the CD by 10 seconds and i’ll have a lot less to complain about.

Kagamiku.9731:

Chaith.8256:

Kagamiku.9731:

Staggering blow has a telegraph.

Fear me is on a 60sec cooldown that requires a secondary skill to make use of. Save your stunbreak or stab for it and it will never be an issue. The 15 second cd of OS coupled with the zero tell is what makes the skill so ridiculous. You’ll never have enough stunbreaks or stab to stop it. Fear me also uses a utility slot, unlike OS which is part of the rifle weapon skillset.

A rune, really? It’s also on an extremely long cooldown and only lasts two seconds. And funny enough, it’s being nerfed next patch.

40second cd means save one stunbreak and it will never mean anything to you.

So yeah, I consider all those skills to be far weaker than OS.

I merely offered common CC chains that you can’t reactively dodge.

If you want to compare ability v. ability, Doom’s 3s fear on a 17 cool down is just as individually strong as OC. But comparing by ability doesn’t make much sense, anymore than comparing by weapon, or any other small context.

The problem with Engi CC is that it keeps the enemy using stunbreaks on overcharged shot, and it leaves them vulnerable to being juggled by slick shoes.

Rifle is not so overwhelming by itself. Professions that bring 2 stunbreaks have to eat 3 overcharged overcharged shots in a row in order to get combo’d by a lone rifle engi. This makes Rifle require a sustainable build to even start getting the CC it’s balanced around landing.

When an Engi brings only slick shoes, and no rifle, save a single cooldown for that, and you’re golden.

Vs. An Engi with rifle and slick shoes, who’s landing everything, your stunbreaks will be overwhelmed. It becomes a matter if you can predict overcharged shot and blind/dodge it. If that happens even once, though, the Engi loses the overwhelm factor.

Professions like AcroThief/Mes bring the tools to completely negate Engi CC, for example.

Meta Cele Rifle build can take a shave to the cooldown on OC of like, 5 seconds. Outside that it’d cease to be a better strategy than Rabid builds. I think that it’s ideal they be balanced at the same strength.

Doom isn’t comparable because it’s a death shroud skill. Not only do they not always have access to the skill, but they have greater limitations while in Death Shroud. Engi on the other hand has OS at all times and can be used each time it goes off cooldown. Plus the tooltip states that Doom is a 1 1/2 seconds fear on a 20second cd so it would require a lot of traiting for it to reach a 3 second fear on a 17second cd. OS is as good as it is with zero trait investment.

Give OS a 1/2 second tell like staggering blow or increase the CD by 10 seconds and i’ll have a lot less to complain about.

Increased cooldown by 66% too harsh

It’s already a liability, if your opponent evades it, blocks it, blinds it, aegis’ it, hits stability at the right time or worst of all, reflects it.
It is a high risk ability, with a high reward. We aren’t just talking about wasting a cooldown that is important but also putting yourself in a very unpleasant situation that can be turned on you just as easily.

Engineers struggle to bring stunbreaks, and having to use one on your own, backfired, ability is a big loss. If OS becomes any easier to avoid there is no good reason for it to still CC the engineer as well.

But going with how this hasn’t been a problem for two years, with talk instead to improve OS, I’m going to guess its just another phase. Something that became a problem under circumstances outside of Engineers and only in pvp, and when circumstances change so will this cease to be a “problem”.

Terrahero.9358:

It’s already a liability, if your opponent evades it, blocks it, blinds it, aegis’ it, hits stability at the right time or worst of all, reflects it.
It is a high risk ability, with a high reward. We aren’t just talking about wasting a cooldown that is important but also putting yourself in a very unpleasant situation that can be turned on you just as easily.

Engineers struggle to bring stunbreaks, and having to use one on your own, backfired, ability is a big loss. If OS becomes any easier to avoid there is no good reason for it to still CC the engineer as well.

But going with how this hasn’t been a problem for two years, with talk instead to improve OS, I’m going to guess its just another phase. Something that became a problem under circumstances outside of Engineers and only in pvp, and when circumstances change so will this cease to be a “problem”.

Circumstances changed so slick shoes become more widely accepted and the rate of abilities Rifle & Slick Shoes Engi can churn out that consume enemy stunbreaks has gone up in PvP

Before when you just had to devote your entire attention and defense to countering Overcharged Shot, it was fine, but now you have to save stunbreaks for Slick Shoes or eat that too. Stacking CC past the rate of that which can be stunbroken has an exponential effect on the usefulness of that CC, thats normally why diminishing returns end up in MMOs.

i stood still in a slick shoes today and the other engi died to my nades lul

Chaith.8256:

Terrahero.9358:

It’s already a liability, if your opponent evades it, blocks it, blinds it, aegis’ it, hits stability at the right time or worst of all, reflects it.
It is a high risk ability, with a high reward. We aren’t just talking about wasting a cooldown that is important but also putting yourself in a very unpleasant situation that can be turned on you just as easily.

Engineers struggle to bring stunbreaks, and having to use one on your own, backfired, ability is a big loss. If OS becomes any easier to avoid there is no good reason for it to still CC the engineer as well.

But going with how this hasn’t been a problem for two years, with talk instead to improve OS, I’m going to guess its just another phase. Something that became a problem under circumstances outside of Engineers and only in pvp, and when circumstances change so will this cease to be a “problem”.

Circumstances changed so slick shoes become more widely accepted and the rate of abilities Rifle & Slick Shoes Engi can churn out that consume enemy stunbreaks has gone up in PvP

Before when you just had to devote your entire attention and defense to countering Overcharged Shot, it was fine, but now you have to save stunbreaks for Slick Shoes or eat that too. Stacking CC past the rate of that which can be stunbroken has an exponential effect on the usefulness of that CC, thats normally why diminishing returns end up in MMOs.

And what changed causing a combo that has been around for a while to suddenly become really good in the recent couple of months? that is the really interesting question.

If anything, isn’t a more prominent problem that the oil slick persists longer than the knockdown, so it can cause multiple CCs?

Terrahero.9358:

Chaith.8256:

Terrahero.9358:

It’s already a liability, if your opponent evades it, blocks it, blinds it, aegis’ it, hits stability at the right time or worst of all, reflects it.
It is a high risk ability, with a high reward. We aren’t just talking about wasting a cooldown that is important but also putting yourself in a very unpleasant situation that can be turned on you just as easily.

Engineers struggle to bring stunbreaks, and having to use one on your own, backfired, ability is a big loss. If OS becomes any easier to avoid there is no good reason for it to still CC the engineer as well.

But going with how this hasn’t been a problem for two years, with talk instead to improve OS, I’m going to guess its just another phase. Something that became a problem under circumstances outside of Engineers and only in pvp, and when circumstances change so will this cease to be a “problem”.

Circumstances changed so slick shoes become more widely accepted and the rate of abilities Rifle & Slick Shoes Engi can churn out that consume enemy stunbreaks has gone up in PvP

Before when you just had to devote your entire attention and defense to countering Overcharged Shot, it was fine, but now you have to save stunbreaks for Slick Shoes or eat that too. Stacking CC past the rate of that which can be stunbroken has an exponential effect on the usefulness of that CC, thats normally why diminishing returns end up in MMOs.

And what changed causing a combo that has been around for a while to suddenly become really good in the recent couple of months? that is the really interesting question.

If anything, isn’t a more prominent problem that the oil slick persists longer than the knockdown, so it can cause multiple CCs?

Slick Shoes stunbreak reduced CD by 15s,

Slick Shoes reduced CD by 15s.

And afaik it’s being used as intended to repeatedly knock down enemies.

The CD reduction made it a far more manageable gadget, to be used in nearly every encounter. It wasn’t the case before. The repeated knockdown is indeed intended, however, the said cooldown reduction was uncalled for in the first place.

Chaith.8256:

Terrahero.9358:

Chaith.8256:

Terrahero.9358:

It’s already a liability, if your opponent evades it, blocks it, blinds it, aegis’ it, hits stability at the right time or worst of all, reflects it.
It is a high risk ability, with a high reward. We aren’t just talking about wasting a cooldown that is important but also putting yourself in a very unpleasant situation that can be turned on you just as easily.

Engineers struggle to bring stunbreaks, and having to use one on your own, backfired, ability is a big loss. If OS becomes any easier to avoid there is no good reason for it to still CC the engineer as well.

But going with how this hasn’t been a problem for two years, with talk instead to improve OS, I’m going to guess its just another phase. Something that became a problem under circumstances outside of Engineers and only in pvp, and when circumstances change so will this cease to be a “problem”.

Circumstances changed so slick shoes become more widely accepted and the rate of abilities Rifle & Slick Shoes Engi can churn out that consume enemy stunbreaks has gone up in PvP

Before when you just had to devote your entire attention and defense to countering Overcharged Shot, it was fine, but now you have to save stunbreaks for Slick Shoes or eat that too. Stacking CC past the rate of that which can be stunbroken has an exponential effect on the usefulness of that CC, thats normally why diminishing returns end up in MMOs.

And what changed causing a combo that has been around for a while to suddenly become really good in the recent couple of months? that is the really interesting question.

If anything, isn’t a more prominent problem that the oil slick persists longer than the knockdown, so it can cause multiple CCs?

Slick Shoes stunbreak reduced CD by 15s,

Slick Shoes reduced CD by 15s.

And afaik it’s being used as intended to repeatedly knock down enemies.

That doesn’t affect the combo. The combo is what people are complaining about, going from OS into a Slick Shoes slipfest. If all that happened was a reduced cooldown (60 to 45) than we should’ve seen this combo be prevalent before.

Something like what happened in September, when the oil slick was changed from lasting 1sec to lasting 3sec. If one spill can cause multiple knockdowns to one target that would be a change that really effects how strong that combo is. As it means a spill you put on the target would cause two knockdowns for a total of 4sec CC, as oppose to previously 2sec.

Terrahero.9358:

That doesn’t affect the combo. The combo is what people are complaining about, going from OS into a Slick Shoes slipfest. If all that happened was a reduced cooldown (60 to 45) than we should’ve seen this combo be prevalent before.

Something like what happened in September, when the oil slick was changed from lasting 1sec to lasting 3sec. If one spill can cause multiple knockdowns to one target that would be a change that really effects how strong that combo is. As it means a spill you put on the target would cause two knockdowns for a total of 4sec CC, as oppose to previously 2sec.

Interesting theory that it must have had to be a prevalent combo before, but we don’t really have to speculate about the past, it wasn’t prevalent.

The combo did not get stronger. Yes. The frequency in which it happens has, and that means situations happen where Slick Shoes would have been completely negated by a defensive cooldown, but instead, the victim gets wombo combo’d. It doesn’t happen often but the chance of one decisive kill a match, that’s nice.

With the cooldown reduction of Super Speed by 15 seconds, this reduced the reason to not take Slick Shoes, being that Elixir S/E-Gun had much superior survivability. That’s why we see Slick Shoes in practice right now. Not increases to the combo, but removal of barriers.

We did see this combo in practice about 1.5 years ago, as soon as Super Speed became a stunbreak, and it could actually be in a build.

http://www.twitch.tv/chaithh/c/3125426

As you can see, the puddles had a 3 second duration, like they always have, since launch. The increased duration in September from 1s to 3s you are talking about never happened.

So its has been as effective a CC now as it’s ever been. But the fact it’s now more usefull as a stunbreak makes it overpowered as a CC?

Terrahero.9358:

So its has been as effective a CC now as it’s ever been. But the fact it’s now more usefull as a stunbreak makes it overpowered as a CC?

In the build creation process, normally, to have something really strong, you should give something up as well.

Nobody will ever QQ on the forums about something if it’s objectively OP, but has too many drawbacks to be a part of an OP build/strategy. I’ll use an analogy:

For example, Fresh Air Eles with Arcana skills doing 12k completely instant, un-telegraphed damage while they’re channelling their heal, facing away lol. (Swap Air, Lightning Strike, Arcane Wave, Arcane Blast.) This is monstrously good damage. But is it overpowered? Yes, but no, because you will rarely win with this glass cannon Ele on your side.

Let’s say they buff Arcane Blast and Arcane Wave over the years, in multiple patches, giving it defensive abilities more like Cantrips. Does the damage that hasn’t changed since launch become overpowered? If it’s not a glass Ele that gets knocked over by a fart doing it, yes, yes it does.

Now that people are able to put Slick Shoes on their Engi and no longer have that Engi as big of a liability in getting CC chained to death, suddenly people are not okay with the puddle of death which was always an overpowered CC, but so specialized that it wasn’t the best choice of a utility.

Hopefully that allows you to understand the new wave of complaints about Slick Shoes.

I think a good change would be to reduce the duration of Slick Shoes’ Oil Slick’s themselves from 3s duration, to a 2s duration.

Hi, I’m said Engi (Bad Hat Ben). I would say that yes, the buffs on Slick Shoes was a bit too far. I would maybe keep the tool belt CD as is (because Engis need a low CD stun break to avoid being chained to death) and keep the 3 second oil duration (it’s supposed to be area denial) but only make slipping on a puddle have it disappear. I think the double slip is what makes it silly. Now, if you use it smart you can lay the puddles in a way that you are likely to recover then slip again, but you’ll still have a way to respond.

I maintain the OC shot is needed in its current state. It is the initiator that sets up the other more difficult to land CC. It doesn’t even need a tell, if the Engi is closing in, prepare for a OC shot. If you’re closing in, they’re probably going to OC shot. As others have said, missing the OC shot is punishing. Your suggestions would turn the weapon into something hardly worth using and all it would do is change the meta from it to Pistol/Shield (which has 2 CC skills and one can hit multiple times).

They both high risk high reward skills to various extents with overcharge shot being riskier. You self-knock when you launch.

Yes, it’s shorter duration than enemy but in team fights it gives the other team a chance to dps you pretty hard. It’s perfectly balanced the way it is. If it had any animation(please not the kitten swirling white lines of pindown/air blast/point blank shot all over again!) they would need to remove the self-knock. Oh and it bugs out a lot unless you directly face your target.

Slick shoes risk stands in wasting it for nothing against a target that has teleport/stability/invuln etc. Yes when it connects it’s basically 3s of dps spam but otherwise it’s just a wasted cooldown. And the risk to waste it is a lot even without the previously mentioned things.

You kinda need to circle around your target to get it right and the more you do that the less you benefit from its actual effects.

Lert.6287:

Using slick shoes you’re sacraficing much more (eg. kit), so it shouldn’t be too weak.
OC shot – 12 or 15sec cooldown, 1 target, it knocks you down as well. Now compare it to warrior’s hammer…

engies OC shot a risk…LOOOOOOOL……dude the OC shot unless poorly positioned on skyhammer map (wich is you being noob) OC shot isnt only CC…it also gets you OUT of chaotic dangerous situations so you can start spamming from range again…and try again cause of the extremely short cd’s engie has….unlike warrior’s hammer wich get’s you IN the chaos…and requires balanced stance and zerker stance in order to be sure to burst wich also still can be evaded or blocked even still…pls stop hiding behind LIES and excuses…engineer atm is hands down unrivalled the most overpowered class in game in almost ALL situations in pvp….if one class needs to be toned down…and not just few minor nervies…..i mean good hard tone down…its the engie…..denying is just bs

necro-posting….

…It doesn’t need a nerf simply because if the enemy is smart they will stunbreak immediately and CC us back whilst we’re vulnerable. E.g. Overcharge shot a warrior who stunbreaks straight away or has the balanced stance trait on first CC leading into a massive hammer wombo combo.
It’s like our conditions… we dish them out but can’t take it. Same goes for our CC with pretty much a maximum of only 1 stunbreak.

Sure engi is one of the strogest CCer out there but we have so many vulnerabilities that balance that out…calling us OP is laughable XD

nah, it’s like this atm…engie stacking ftw in teams….guild teams with 3 engies,….simply beat 99% of the other teams that don’t….and i don’t mean pugs….i’m not calling engie overpowered….i’m calling engie beyond overpowered and many skills/trait need full blown nerfs….thousands of tpvp matches…now that maybe nothing to some of you…but i do understand the game perfectly fine, and the engi truly is beyond overpowered

Arantheal.7396:

necro-posting….

show me a 1v1 vs cele engie lol….you won’t cause you will obliterated hardcore, necro is absolutely 100% no hard counter to cele engi….not even close….that was cool to hide behind that excuse about a year ago…..engie is 100% beyond overpowered atm, hell it doesn’t even require the engie to know where it’s enemy is….aoe everywhere, cc out of it if too much….and keep aoe spamming again..

Darksteel.8412:

Arantheal.7396:

necro-posting….

show me a 1v1 vs cele engie lol….you won’t cause you will obliterated hardcore, necro is absolutely 100% no hard counter to cele engi….not even close….that was cool to hide behind that excuse about a year ago…..engie is 100% beyond overpowered atm, hell it doesn’t even require the engie to know where it’s enemy is….aoe everywhere, cc out of it if too much….and keep aoe spamming again..

“Necro posting” means you brought back a very old post..in this case a month-old one… ;-)

And btw no, if you stand there and take all the aoe is your fault…i for example suffer very much rangers and necros..and bunker guardians offer always a nice fight.

Gaaroth.2567:

Darksteel.8412:

Arantheal.7396:

necro-posting….

show me a 1v1 vs cele engie lol….you won’t cause you will obliterated hardcore, necro is absolutely 100% no hard counter to cele engi….not even close….that was cool to hide behind that excuse about a year ago…..engie is 100% beyond overpowered atm, hell it doesn’t even require the engie to know where it’s enemy is….aoe everywhere, cc out of it if too much….and keep aoe spamming again..

“Necro posting” means you brought back a very old post..in this case a month-old one… ;-)

And btw no, if you stand there and take all the aoe is your fault…i for example suffer very much rangers and necros..and bunker guardians offer always a nice fight.

cute words…show me a fight of u vs a cele engie player…i choose the engi player, you get to pick any class and build except engi …you will lose 10/10 i promise you

Darksteel.8412:

Gaaroth.2567:

Darksteel.8412:

Arantheal.7396:

necro-posting….

show me a 1v1 vs cele engie lol….you won’t cause you will obliterated hardcore, necro is absolutely 100% no hard counter to cele engi….not even close….that was cool to hide behind that excuse about a year ago…..engie is 100% beyond overpowered atm, hell it doesn’t even require the engie to know where it’s enemy is….aoe everywhere, cc out of it if too much….and keep aoe spamming again..

“Necro posting” means you brought back a very old post..in this case a month-old one… ;-)

And btw no, if you stand there and take all the aoe is your fault…i for example suffer very much rangers and necros..and bunker guardians offer always a nice fight.

cute words…show me a fight of u vs a cele engie player…i choose the engi player, you get to pick any class and build except engi …you will lose 10/10 i promise you

fight against condi shatter or condi ranger

insanemaniac.2456:

Darksteel.8412:

Gaaroth.2567:

Darksteel.8412:

Arantheal.7396:

necro-posting….

show me a 1v1 vs cele engie lol….you won’t cause you will obliterated hardcore, necro is absolutely 100% no hard counter to cele engi….not even close….that was cool to hide behind that excuse about a year ago…..engie is 100% beyond overpowered atm, hell it doesn’t even require the engie to know where it’s enemy is….aoe everywhere, cc out of it if too much….and keep aoe spamming again..

“Necro posting” means you brought back a very old post..in this case a month-old one… ;-)

And btw no, if you stand there and take all the aoe is your fault…i for example suffer very much rangers and necros..and bunker guardians offer always a nice fight.

cute words…show me a fight of u vs a cele engie player…i choose the engi player, you get to pick any class and build except engi …you will lose 10/10 i promise you

fight against condi shatter or condi ranger

so u accept?, ill pick the engi cele player…you roll condi ranger or shatter mes…you will lose 10/10

Please post the video. I am really curious.

Darksteel.8412:

nah, it’s like this atm…engie stacking ftw in teams….guild teams with 3 engies,….simply beat 99% of the other teams that don’t….and i don’t mean pugs….i’m not calling engie overpowered….i’m calling engie beyond overpowered and many skills/trait need full blown nerfs….thousands of tpvp matches…now that maybe nothing to some of you…but i do understand the game perfectly fine, and the engi truly is beyond overpowered

How many hours have you played the engineer?

Darksteel.8412:

cute words…show me a fight of u vs a cele engie player…i choose the engi player, you get to pick any class and build except engi …you will lose 10/10 i promise you

Show us yours. Perhaps we could offer some suggestions on how to adjust your play in order to assist you.

Darksteel.8412:

fight against condi shatter or condi ranger

so u accept?, ill pick the engi cele player…you roll condi ranger or shatter mes…you will lose 10/10[/quote]

Pick the player? So you can make the claims, but not back them up? If it is so easy, by all means, prove it yourself. It lend no value to your words, when you make claims then set out to find another to support them in game play, when you cannot.

Darksteel.8412:

insanemaniac.2456:

Darksteel.8412:

Gaaroth.2567:

Darksteel.8412:

Arantheal.7396:

necro-posting….

show me a 1v1 vs cele engie lol….you won’t cause you will obliterated hardcore, necro is absolutely 100% no hard counter to cele engi….not even close….that was cool to hide behind that excuse about a year ago…..engie is 100% beyond overpowered atm, hell it doesn’t even require the engie to know where it’s enemy is….aoe everywhere, cc out of it if too much….and keep aoe spamming again..

“Necro posting” means you brought back a very old post..in this case a month-old one… ;-)

And btw no, if you stand there and take all the aoe is your fault…i for example suffer very much rangers and necros..and bunker guardians offer always a nice fight.

cute words…show me a fight of u vs a cele engie player…i choose the engi player, you get to pick any class and build except engi …you will lose 10/10 i promise you

fight against condi shatter or condi ranger

so u accept?, ill pick the engi cele player…you roll condi ranger or shatter mes…you will lose 10/10

of course ill lose, i only play engi with any kind of skill. kittening kittened.

Cenzuo.6328:

Does the engi community agree that our CC needs to be adjusted or am I by myself here?

I’d rather wait and see how the stability change affects things. If it’s true that some elites are going to have their stabilities refreshed over time in multiple stacks (e.g., Lich Form) then Slick Shoes may be the only real counter to those builds and need to remain as-is.

I see nothing overpowered about Overcharged Shot, though. It’s a very good knockback on a very good cooldown but it has several drawbacks that have been argued about many, many times.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Cenzuo.6328:

Does the engi community agree that our CC needs to be adjusted or am I by myself here?

I’d rather wait and see how the stability change affects things. If it’s true that some elites are going to have their stabilities refreshed over time in multiple stacks (e.g., Lich Form) then Slick Shoes may be the only real counter to those builds and need to remain as-is.

I see nothing overpowered about Overcharged Shot, though. It’s a very good knockback on a very good cooldown but it has several drawbacks that have been argued about many, many times.

these drawbacks do no exist…it has nothing but advantage…it get’s you OUT of the chaos so the engi can spam again at range…name one drawback..falling of an edge on skyhammer???,…lol thats not a drawback…thats just the player being dumb….engie needs nerves nerves nerves and than some nerves