Not sure I buy that. Jack of all trades are common in end-game scenarios across other MMOs. Based off my own personal experience in WoW and FFXI, Shamans and Red Mages when I played those games had absolutely zero issues joining groups—in PvE or PvP.
Tequatl is perhaps the largest top-tier encounter we’ve witnessed in this game, and I certainly contributed plenty on the end of defense. During Sanctum of Rall’s first server kill with EG, CDS, and GSCH (sorry if I’m forgetting anyone else—there were so many!), I turned on my own blue chip and kept my turrets alive. Super Elixir and Healing Turret didn’t single-handedly keep them alive. I had a lot of help, of course. But our extensive CC control through Overcharged Shot, Net Shot, and Air Blast simultaneously kept champs/vets off the turreteers while I was healing them. And the truth of the matter is that the work that I contributed was valued enough to be asked to do it the next few times we worked together to defeat Tequatl. I would have never been able to do that kind of thing on my Guardian or my Warrior.
Engineers are one of the best auxiliary support classes in the game given our multi-purpose ability to contribute to #1-6 within the construction of one, singular build. With any kit focus (though Bomb Kit in my mind is best). We have the best combo field coverage and the most blast finishers of any class. Me and my guild leader have alone been all that was necessary to keep Jonez alive during the Temple of Grenth second phase. So many people complain that Temple of Balthazar is now too hard, but guess what? If you land all your blast finishers in Water fields as an Engineer, we contribute heavily to keeping the Pact alive, perhaps better than any other class can as an individual player.
I disagree with your assertions that jack of all trades classes will be phased out, and I can guarantee you that whenever they start creating instanced top-tier content, Engineers are going to be just as commonly ran in our guild runs as any other class. And we will not suffer for it.
1) but we aren’t talking about other games balance so really the reference to WoW, and FFXI has no place here.
2) this discussion is specific to dungeons, I agreed with you that engineer is good in open world pve, wvw, and spvp, the area I believe they are lacking is dungeons.
3) yes engineers do have a great assortment to fields, just none are specific to their class, (ex. with other profession a dungeon group can replace everything that an engineer could bring to the group. Can you say the same for the most extreme examples of [guardian, warrior and Mesmer?]) this is not to say we are useless in fact in pug dungeons we are great at picking up where our random group members cannot (or are not) providing different things for the group because we have that variety, its just in guild dungeons where the group is trying to min/max we wouldn’t be the first choice(my guess if we came along we would fill either the 4th or fifth slot).
4) we have the most blast finishers that is true, we have a lot of variety in this area but an ele can bring only 1 less blast finisher while providing fury as well as might through fire fields, not to mention LH 3rd auto attack is a blast finisher essentially on a 1 and a half second cooldown.
5) temple of grenth is open world PvE again not a dungeon, I have also managed to solo the legendary risen priest of grenth and duo the defend but that has nothing to do with dungeons.
edit: on the temple of Balthazar in straights it is pretty easy if you use npc given weapon not trying to tell you how to play but it is a tool that can be very useful in this event if you choose to use it.
(edited by Infamous Darkness.3284)
So your guild speaks for the general perception of Engineers across the entire game? OK.
Of course not, the original post asked for opinion. We have one and shared it.
Phineas is correct. You do not post in terms of opinion or concept, you put all of your post in the form of definitive statements.
Once again, the ENTIRE post was asking for OPINIONS.
And dungeon runners who play multiple characters agree with those of us who rank engineer lower. Besides, you guys overlooked what was said about the list when it was posted, there isn’t a huge gap between the top and the bottom, and I have been trying to explain that I run AS or WITH an engineer basically every day. I agree that it’s a good, versatile class that has an abundance of hard CC, but just happens to be not uniquely useful in dungeons the way they are currently designed.
Maybe instead of just reacting to someone attacking your favorite profession, you could actually read what is being written and objectively argue it without personal attacks.
1) but we aren’t talking about other games balance so really the reference to WoW, and FFXI has no place here.
Fair enough; I just don’t understand the precedent you’re coming from. Age-old MMOs in traditional “trinity” archetypes even still made use of classes that bend the rules. The Engineer is perhaps the biggest bender of conventions—both in its comprehensive “role” abilities and its direct rejection of stereotypical fantasy aesthetic (using flamethrowers against dragons).
2) this discussion is specific to dungeons, I agreed with you that engineer is good in open world pve, wvw, and spvp, the area I believe they are lacking is dungeons.
Well, that is your belief.
I also brought up open-world content because you referred to “larger” groups. Not sure you can get much “larger” than open-world content with 80+ players to a map; unsurprisingly, we contribute just fine.
its just in guild dungeons where the group is trying to min/max we wouldn’t be the first choice
By that you mean your guild dungeon groups.
I also think there’s more than one way to “min/max” content; fitting an Engineer into your group in a lot of ways is a minimal investment that—as I’ve already illustrated—provides the maximum role “effort” that you look for in a party member. Fact of the matter is: an Engineer nicely rounds out any group whether they’re taken first or fifth.
I think a lot of reasons why players deny—or decry—Engineers has a lot to do with the fact that very few players know how to play the class to the fullest potential and make them as useful as a class like Warrior who drops a Banner and leaves it there.
But the question framing this conversation is not what the “easiest” class to play is, so that’s a moot point.
4) we have the most blast finishers that is true, we have a lot of variety in this area but an ele can bring only 1 less blast finisher while providing fury as well as might through fire fields, not to mention LH 3rd auto attack is a blast finisher essentially on a 1 and a half second cooldown.
And?
Guardians have a Blast finisher in Mighty Blow they can activate every 4 seconds when traited. They also have a ton of Fire fields in Hallowed Ground and Purging Flames (which is how I play mine in Zerker/Scholar gear). Other people go the full AHEM route.
All classes are flexible. What’s your point?
5) temple of grenth is open world PvE again not a dungeon, I have also managed to solo the legendary risen priest of grenth and duo the defend but that has nothing to do with dungeons.
edit: on the temple of Balthazar in straights it is pretty easy if you use npc given weapon not trying to tell you how to play but it is a tool that can be very useful in this event if you choose to use it.
I’ll direct you to a different URL: right here.
It’s not the the Risen Giant that crushes the Pact. It’s Necro wells. Because most players actually don’t know how to use Water fields.
(edited by Phineas Poe.3018)
I think engis shine in fractals to bring this on the table. Fractals are also a kind of dungon.
I think engis shine in fractals to bring this on the table. Fractals are also a kind of dungon.
Agreed, I do mid-30s fractals with mine, and she is quite excellent at them.
That being said, my guard is usually more useful in the various fights, especially where reflects are needed (so most of PvE).
I think Engineers thrive in fractals, personally. Though, I wouldn’t take one in place of a competent guardian, if the team didn’t already have one; but that’s just because Guardians are so powerful in Fractals also.
(edited by hybrid.5027)
People like this may me laugh, rather than accept their class might have a few problems, they defend every single point to the death.
In the end, they’re the reason why this class doesn’t get buffed.
It’s sad because it would benefit them in the end.
the class doesn’t need buffs.
People like this may me laugh, rather than accept their class might have a few problems, they defend every single point to the death.
In the end, they’re the reason why this class doesn’t get buffed.
It’s sad because it would benefit them in the end.
In my opinion engineer is by far the most balanced class. I would not recommend to buff/nerf engineer. I would recommend to rebalance other classes.
Anyway, I really think fractals are where engineers shine and I would not even trade my engineer for my guardian in high level fractals. It just fits perfect.
Engineer does have some problems with speed runs. But let’s just compare engi and ele. While ele is a good choice in speed runs, engineer isn’t. But regarding those two classes, engineer is all over the top except the elite (firey greatsword) and lightning hammer.
Speed runs are all somehow like: skip- skip- boss- skip – skip- boss-…. And therefor the firey greatsword and the hammer are a very good choice. But engineer can’t bring anything like this on the table.
The engineer doesnt need major changes really. Its just an issue of pve not catering to engi’s strengths. The same issue necro has. Fortunately the devs have said they want to improve the viability of condition damage and control in high level pve. This should benefit both engi and necro.
Btw thanks for reporting me because you didnt like me calling you biased. I got a nice 1 day ban and my sig removed! Much appreciated!
People like this may me laugh, rather than accept their class might have a few problems, they defend every single point to the death.
In the end, they’re the reason why this class doesn’t get buffed.
I have a hard time believing that they balance the class around what we write on here.
the class doesn’t need buffs.
In what sense? Do you think engineer is balaced for PvE, WvW, and PvP?
the class doesn’t need buffs.
In what sense? Do you think engineer is balaced for PvE, WvW, and PvP?
I don’t feel underpowered in WvW or PvP.
30/0/10/20/10 gives me permanent Swiftness, a massive damage reduction while stunned, and passive regeneration along with the ability to spec either into the Bomb Kit (for zergs and roaming) or the Grenade Kit (for tower defense/offense).
And come December 10 I think I’ll be going 30/0/20/20/0 getting a constant 25% movement speed buff, too (along with another 100 Toughness).
Haven’t yet ironed out how my FT build will go in PvP/WvW, but I definitely think we’re in a pretty good place on that end right now.
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