Guild Wars 2

About Elixir R. Am i realy the only one who thinks that the utility (read, not tool belt skill) is plain useless. The stun breaker was awesome, the same for the endurance gain. Now it is only endurance AND it has half a second casting time! Come on… Before it was quickly hitting it and get your dodge off in time. Now u need to “predict” when u will need your dodge and use it. Realy… It’s a shame. The only reason i have it now is because the reviving pulse to revive team mates. The stunbreaker and instant endurance gain WAS interesting… But now…

This is a shoutout for ANet, ‘thanks’ for destroying the engineer’s best skill and my WvW build.

Elixir R and elixir S are neither worth equipping in WvWvW anymore.

Oh well, toss elixir R self revive was pretty useless in WvWvW anycase. It basically it could only save you in small scale situations. In a huge zerg fights there are so many people spamming AoE at your dying character that toss elixir R has saved me only once in such situation. I can imagine that toss elixir R is very good in pvp, but huge EU tier 1 zergs are totally different type of play.

But overall engineer got much more buffs than nerfs.

I had always used Elixer R for the revive and the break stun. It was actually the only break stun I used, and now it’s gone. I still badly want to use this for the revive, but this is still a huge problem for me.

I really want the break stun back.

I may end up ditching the skill now.

If the skill was such a problem in PvP or WvW they should have split the balance for it for PvP, PvE and WvW. You know better arena net. Did you forget the lessons you learned from GW1?

A small price to pay for what seems to be one of our best patches yet, overall, and no where near as painful of a nerf as the Elixir S nerf.

Dog.1472:

I had always used Elixer R for the revive and the break stun. It was actually the only break stun I used, and now it’s gone. I still badly want to use this for the revive, but this is still a huge problem for me.

I really want the break stun back.

I may end up ditching the skill now.

Same. If I feel that I need the revive for dungeons (which I often do), then I have to run with a useless skill.

They should have removed the stun break from Elixir U instead, in my opinion.

The stunbreak will be missed but what sealed its fate was adding the half second cast time to it. Still it is a small price to pay for the other improved utilities to try out

The stunbreak was literally the only thing I equipped it for. I don’t want to shrink and be unable to use skills, I don’t care enough about endurance to waste a slot refilling it, but being able to break stun then get a guaranteed two dodges was actually useful.

Whats funny is this patch did nothing for the way I play Engineer except nerf me. The only ability that changed for me was Elixir R…everything else stayed the same.

I am fairly kitten ed about this change.

This skill was one of my favorite skills. its a real shame that it was nurfed like this. I don’t know about everyone else. But it was the perfect stunbreak for me to bring. I can’t replace it with anything because I dedicated much of my build to elixir gun, flamethrower and elixirs. So having this nurf throws a pretty hard wrench into my engineer’s build of which I might have to abandon the build all together because of this one change.

So I state this again. Why couldn’t they remove it as a stunbreak from PvP and/or WvW and keep it the same for PvE? this doesn’t make sense to me. Arena Net stated that they would split skills if it became a problem. And it is a problem. You can make both the PvE and PvP players happy with skill changes. You don’t have to make one of them suffer. You, arena net, taught us that in GW1.

You took 2 steps forward in allot of areas in this game. Yet you seem to be taking multiple steps backwards with some of the “new” ways you do things from GW1. How can you make the same mistakes you did in gw1 again and expect that the result will be different this time around? This is insanity, you have to understand where your fan bass is coming from and have some wisdom when it comes to balancing.

Well it was awesome, and no other res skill is awesome, infact they are mostly terrible, which I guess is why elixir R was put in line.

Lily.1935:

This skill was one of my favorite skills. its a real shame that it was nurfed like this. I don’t know about everyone else. But it was the perfect stunbreak for me to bring. I can’t replace it with anything because I dedicated much of my build to elixir gun, flamethrower and elixirs. So having this nurf throws a pretty hard wrench into my engineer’s build of which I might have to abandon the build all together because of this one change.

Healing mist now breaks stun, which is not reflected in patch notes.

I think this is Anet’s roundabout way of nerfing the HGH/elixir build by making the elixir skills subpar, while subtly adding new features to kits and gadgets across the board (like Healing Mist stunbreaker as an example).

Yeah frankly I didn’t see a single change to engineers that was actual tournament pvp (not the auto tournament but real tournaments) viable.

Most teams don’t run an engineer although they aren’t super rare. With the hit to R though I have to wonder what’s left.

I’m not going to say much but I am angry about this. That’s all you need to read and even then you will likely not revert anything.

aelflune.8590:

Lily.1935:

This skill was one of my favorite skills. its a real shame that it was nurfed like this. I don’t know about everyone else. But it was the perfect stunbreak for me to bring. I can’t replace it with anything because I dedicated much of my build to elixir gun, flamethrower and elixirs. So having this nurf throws a pretty hard wrench into my engineer’s build of which I might have to abandon the build all together because of this one change.

Healing mist now breaks stun, which is not reflected in patch notes.

Oh. thank you for pointing that out. Looks like I’ll keep this skill regardless. Still my later points still stand.

I feel like Anet tried to lower the utility effect of this skill to make it less viable in PvP or something and it really crippled it in PvE/WvW. It was always one thing I had as a utility skill on my Engineer because it was always useful, stun break/endurance, plus help with reviving. That is great in PvE. Especially considering our down skills are such a joke in PvE, this was the one thing that compensated for it.

Now that the utility for it is pretty much worthless, endurance regen but with a cast time, it pretty much either waste a utility slot for a tool belt skill or put something else entirely.

Can Anet please really look back at this change in regards to PvE? It really is disappointing.

Sad about Elixir R. I have a lot to complain about with the patch, but on the engineer, this one is symbolic. The stun break shuffle, and engis aren’t the only ones affected, was wholly done without an awareness around synergy and and grace in development. Elixir R, for me, is symbolic of everything wrong with the patch.

Raine.1394:

Sad about Elixir R. I have a lot to complain about with the patch, but on the engineer, this one is symbolic. The stun break shuffle, and engis aren’t the only ones affected, was wholly done without an awareness around synergy and and grace in development. Elixir R, for me, is symbolic of everything wrong with the patch.

Did it occur to you that Anet did this on purpose? They have said that they wanted choices to feel like they matter. By removing the level of utility on certain skills, it forces players to consider other options more strongly and weigh the pros and cons of what you do pick. They don’t want any skills to be clearly sub-par, and they don’t want any skills to be something that has to be taken.

It’s unfortunate that the stunbreaker is gone, but we now have Stabilized Armor, which with Protection Injection lowers damage received while stunned by 53%.

Elixir R still refills our Endurance and can be used as a self-revive in sPvP. I still use it.

LameFox.6349:

The stunbreak was literally the only thing I equipped it for. I don’t want to shrink and be unable to use skills, I don’t care enough about endurance to waste a slot refilling it, but being able to break stun then get a guaranteed two dodges was actually useful.

Don’t know if it’s fixed, but if you’re fast enough you can equip your Kit right before becoming small and still use attacks. Kind of an exploit, but yea..

Direksone.3867:

LameFox.6349:

The stunbreak was literally the only thing I equipped it for. I don’t want to shrink and be unable to use skills, I don’t care enough about endurance to waste a slot refilling it, but being able to break stun then get a guaranteed two dodges was actually useful.

Don’t know if it’s fixed, but if you’re fast enough you can equip your Kit right before becoming small and still use attacks. Kind of an exploit, but yea..

It’s not even attacks I wanted to use – I used to have it on my WvW builds as an escape, but it doesn’t remove conditions sort of like Endure Pain to warriors, so I would often need to use S and then C or all I’d do is sit around immobilized for a few seconds and then die. When they changed S I didn’t really care because I could just use R instead and still have the same effect (the few moments immune to damage never actually mattered much to me).

Now I have one that basically just delays death for a few seconds, and the thing that will either use all my endurance or make me take more damage. Neither of which I’m willing to waste a slot on.

Tbh, this comes as a perfect excuse to drop it for a skill that actually fits my build(s) and let others do the rezzing. On the other hand I think every skill should have it’s place in at least one build. I can’t see any use for it now.

No reason to use it anymore. ANet nerfed something that didn’t need to be nerfed.

This is why it was nerfed, it was so massively OP that it twisted the conception of an utility skill and set some extremely high expectation for one single skill.

Stun breaker, endurance refill, revive field, condition removal field. IN ONE SINGLE UTILITY. But since you guys got used to having such a massively OP skill now you find anything that doesnt bend time and space while making pancakes “useless”.

More thinking, less whining, act like real engineers.

First of all, we’re talking about an utility+a toolbelt. And together they must be better than a single utility, else our class mechanic is useless.
Second, while it works indeed both as a revive field and a condition removal field, it has got quite an appropriate cooldown (one too high for a condition removal, thus usually it isn’t used for that purpose, but just for the reviving part).
Third, the revive field has got quite some counters, be it knockbacking the engineer before he gets downed or even launching it when he get downed. Heh, even dpsing him may be enough to avoid the revive. Or simply avoiding to attack him if you’ve seen it tossing it.

Anyway, the utility itself now is quite useless. If you need endurance is because you need to dodge immediatly, not after some cast time.

I don’t know why they had to change the casting time on this skill… was it really the instant stamina gain that was imbalanced?
If it was for me they could have changed the toolbelt skill but like this they just made the elixir useless for me (and i see quite some people) which is pretty annyoing as there is no other resonable stunbreaker for my power build now that has no extrem cooldown…

Well MY build is dead now. Maybe i should just run with Teldos kit build. It didn’t get touched more or less and i heard there is barely people coping it so it would be good for build variety!

I like it better now. For me it was all about the ‘Eps’, which is now significantly improved.

They took away our last good stunbreak.

If you kill Elixir R, at leas add a stunbreak to elixir c.

By the way…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Agility
Same cooldown, better active effect (it cures conditions too) and also has a passive effect. And it is instant. Assuming the wiki is right, obviously.
We have a toolbelt skill as well, sure. But we shouldn’t pay a price for our class mechanic – thus our utilities themselves shouldn’t be worse than other classes’ ones.

Tobey.4836:

They took away our last good stunbreak.

If you kill Elixir R, at leas add a stunbreak to elixir c.

Elixir Gun toolbelt skill is pretty good.

Tobey.4836:

They took away our last good stunbreak.

If you kill Elixir R, at leas add a stunbreak to elixir c.

It seems to me that they were trying to shuffle stunbreaks around to different utility types. Moving an elixir stunbreak from one elixir to another wouldn’t do that but moving it to a kit (Elixir Gun) or a turret (Thumper Turret) does. Having stunbreaks all over the place like this means you can actually focus on any type of utility without worrying about having access to key skills. The same thing happened to Elementalists: their stunbreaks were basically all on cantrips and now they’re all over the place so Elementalists no longer need to focus on cantrips if they don’t want to get locked down.

As far as the OP: If they didn’t remove the stunbreak, they probably would’ve removed the self-revive or something like that. It’s difficult to always have your cake and eat it too.

Manuhell.2759:

By the way…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Agility
Same cooldown, better active effect (it cures conditions too) and also has a passive effect. And it is instant. Assuming the wiki is right, obviously.
We have a toolbelt skill as well, sure. But we shouldn’t pay a price for our class mechanic – thus our utilities themselves shouldn’t be worse than other classes’ ones.

Signet of Agility: Passive precision, refills endurance, cures one condition.
Elixir R: Revives players (oneself included), refills endurance, cures all conditions.

Also note that Elixir R gives you these abilities between 2 different skills, meaning you don’t have to worry about refilling your endurance and then not having a way to cure conditions 5 seconds later. I really don’t see how you can claim that there’s a difference in usefulness between these two skills. Not to mention Engineers aren’t Thieves. These classes play differently and their skills should be treated differently.

The second skill is part of the class mechanic, though. It must be an added bonus, else our class mechanic actually hurts us. So comparing an utility+toolbelt to an utility is useless.

Do you take in account the thief class mechanics when comparing the skills? No.
Are warriors’ weapon skills weaker because they have a burst skill? No.
Are other classes’ skills nerfed because they have a class mechanic? No.
So why should it be so for engineers?

Also, there are quite many counters for toss elixir R anyway, and using it for the condition removal instead pf the ress is basically wasting it.

Manuhell.2759:

The second skill is part of the class mechanic, though. It must be an added bonus, else our class mechanic actually hurts us. So comparing an utility+toolbelt to an utility is useless.

Do you take in account the thief class mechanics when comparing the skills? No.
Are warriors’ weapon skills weaker because they have a burst skill? No.
Are other classes’ skills nerfed because they have a class mechanic? No.
So why should it be so for engineers?

Also, there are quite many counters for toss elixir R anyway, and using it for the condition removal instead pf the ress is basically wasting it.

You sound ridiculous. Elixir R is fine.

joshisanonymous.5270:

Manuhell.2759:

The second skill is part of the class mechanic, though. It must be an added bonus, else our class mechanic actually hurts us. So comparing an utility+toolbelt to an utility is useless.

Do you take in account the thief class mechanics when comparing the skills? No.
Are warriors’ weapon skills weaker because they have a burst skill? No.
Are other classes’ skills nerfed because they have a class mechanic? No.
So why should it be so for engineers?

Also, there are quite many counters for toss elixir R anyway, and using it for the condition removal instead pf the ress is basically wasting it.

You sound ridiculous. Elixir R is fine.

It isn’t, and i’ve explained why. If you don’t know how to argument, simply don’t post.

joshisanonymous.5270:

Signet of Agility: Passive precision, refills endurance, cures one condition.
Elixir R: Revives players (oneself included), refills endurance, cures all conditions.

I am too tired to verify this, but to my knowledge Toss Elixir R removes just one condition, despite it says differently in the the tool tip. The tool tips are bugged e.g. drop antidote tool tip claims it removes all conditions, but it removes just one condition and doesn’t seem to remove torment (the new condition) at all.

I didn’t use Elixir R that often, but when I did it was to use the stun break, with the rez being a nice perk (since it’s over time it doesn’t work that often anyways, should just be instant).

This skill is just plain terrible now, I can’t see myself slotting it even if I do need the rez.

Any chance of Elixir R losing that cast time?

The reason they said they removed it was because elixirs had too many stunbreaks. I don’t mind reducing the number of stunbreaks on elixers… but this elixir is horrid without it. It’s frekkin’ Elixer R… the Recovery elixir. It SHOULD Recover you from a stun.

Why not instead remove it from Elixer U? U is worthless as a stunbreaker… 50/50 chance of either taking more damage or losing all energy (thus taking more damage). In what situation would you ever use it for a stunbreak anyways?

Take the stunbreak off of the elixer that has no place having one (U)and put it back on the one that should have it®.

People saying Elixir R is useless now… right, because the best quality of the Elixir was the stunbreak? It was just a perk, and one that fit into the most popular builds, which were Elixir builds, and so in that respect, some people would have their build be a little less powerful, even though honestly, in most of the builds that carried Elixir R, you hardly even needed a stunbreak, and most still had Elixir S in the mix as well (which was 10 times worse of a nerf than this one yet a lot less complaining).

It’s like saying my new Porsche is useless now because they took the CD player out of it. Get real, it’s the best rez assist item in the entire game, self-rez or teammate rez, it’s still incredibly viable and STILL the best Elixir overall. The cast time addition to the endurance refill was the only really dumb change to this, that one didn’t make any sense, as the entire point of needing an endurance refill is to be able to dodge again, and dodges are kind of something you need to do in a hurry.

Wait… best rez in the game??? Have you tried other rezzes? Elixir R will often not even fully revive you (or a teammate) if you are taking any significant amount of damage. Which you probably are or… why are you downed?

Adamantium.3682:

Wait… best rez in the game??? Have you tried other rezzes? Elixir R will often not even fully revive you (or a teammate) if you are taking any significant amount of damage. Which you probably are or… why are you downed?

What other rez in the game can you execute from 1200 distance, rez more than one person if they are within 180 radius, and do all over again when your character reaches 25% life via trait, or choose to rez yourself while removing conditions?

Most people tend to only think of things are useful in terms of how they benefit on a personal level, which is why you see such hate about our downed state, since it’s obviously a team-oriented one, not a self oriented one, like a Ranger’s. It’s the most versatile rez ability in the game.

Heiltdo.2891:

This is why it was nerfed, it was so massively OP that it twisted the conception of an utility skill and set some extremely high expectation for one single skill.

Stun breaker, endurance refill, revive field, condition removal field. IN ONE SINGLE UTILITY. But since you guys got used to having such a massively OP skill now you find anything that doesnt bend time and space while making pancakes “useless”.

More thinking, less whining, act like real engineers.

Really? And nothing that any OTHER profession has is mind-bendingly powerful?

Come on. We give up skill slots for our “weapon swaps” the things we DO slot need to be MORE USEFUL.

Just because YOU don’t miss it, doesn’t mean that the rest of us that actually like being “support” oriented aren’t going to SERIOUSLY question even using it.

Save the attitude for when something you love goes under the axe for no reason.

lunyboy.8672:

Heiltdo.2891:

This is why it was nerfed, it was so massively OP that it twisted the conception of an utility skill and set some extremely high expectation for one single skill.

Stun breaker, endurance refill, revive field, condition removal field. IN ONE SINGLE UTILITY. But since you guys got used to having such a massively OP skill now you find anything that doesnt bend time and space while making pancakes “useless”.

More thinking, less whining, act like real engineers.

Come on. We give up skill slots for our “weapon swaps” the things we DO slot need to be MORE USEFUL.

We deserve no special treatment just because we function differently from other professions. This kind of logic is poisonous, because it shows that no matter what changes are made to balance, you will always likely believe it’s unfair, since you are predisposed to believe we deserve some sort of special consideration.

aydenunited.5729:

What other rez in the game can you execute from 1200 distance, rez more than one person if they are within 180 radius, and do all over again when your character reaches 25% life via trait, or choose to rez yourself while removing conditions?

Most people tend to only think of things are useful in terms of how they benefit on a personal level, which is why you see such hate about our downed state, since it’s obviously a team-oriented one, not a self oriented one, like a Ranger’s. It’s the most versatile rez ability in the game.

I have never had that much success with it. Since it’s a pulse and not an instant revive, most of the time for me it gets the targets close to reviving but doesn’t actually work. They are taking damage. That damage prevents them from reviving themselves even just a little bit, so they don’t actually get revived and I just blew a cooldown. Thus regardless of how many times it resets, how frequently I can use it, from how far away, or how many targets, it has rarely done more than disappoint me. The stun *R*emoval (how ironic) — and by extension the instant use — was the best part of the skill to me.

On the flip side I have never been disappointed when I need a revive from a Warrior, Necro, Ele, or Guardian. If they use the skill, I’m getting revived. Period. None of this “well I hope I’m not actually being hit by anything” as is present with Elixir R. Which is ironic because for Elixir R to work you have to pretty much be in a state where you could just use Bandage to revive yourself eventually.

Adamantium.3682:

aydenunited.5729:

What other rez in the game can you execute from 1200 distance, rez more than one person if they are within 180 radius, and do all over again when your character reaches 25% life via trait, or choose to rez yourself while removing conditions?

Most people tend to only think of things are useful in terms of how they benefit on a personal level, which is why you see such hate about our downed state, since it’s obviously a team-oriented one, not a self oriented one, like a Ranger’s. It’s the most versatile rez ability in the game.

I have never had that much success with it. Since it’s a pulse and not an instant revive, most of the time for me it gets the targets close to reviving but doesn’t actually work. They are taking damage. That damage prevents them from reviving themselves even just a little bit, so they don’t actually get revived and I just blew a cooldown. Thus regardless of how many times it resets, how frequently I can use it, from how far away, or how many targets, it has rarely done more than disappoint me. The stun *R*emoval (how ironic) — and by extension the instant use — was the best part of the skill to me.

On the flip side I have never been disappointed when I need a revive from a Warrior, Necro, Ele, or Guardian. If they use the skill, I’m getting revived. Period. None of this “well I hope I’m not actually being hit by anything” as is present with Elixir R. Which is ironic because for Elixir R to work you have to pretty much be in a state where you could just use Bandage to revive yourself eventually.

You know, I typed out this long response that detailed all the things Elixir R still does alongside the rez function, and all these possible scenarios, but I realize that truthfully, I’ve been around since release, and I’ve seen these responses on the forums time and time again, I’ve seen constant “Engie is useless now” comments and we always come right back towards the top of the meta, usually WITHIN the timeframe of the very patch that supposedly “breaks us”, just because of the people who don’t let a simple nerf dictate their disposition on the profession.

You are more than entitled to your opinion, I just don’t see it at all. Unless a player is specifically designated as the “rez guy”, I can’t see a tPvP scenario where you would have Warriors, Necros, etc. using their rez skills when an Engie can carry Elixir R as an afterthought and barely affect their build in any negative way, as they still carry with it condition removal and endurance refill.

And I guess I’m also a little defiant against the boards when I see topics like this because suddenly there are so many drama queens the minute we get the slightest of nerfs, and they are usually pretty insignificant in the big picture. People are actually QUITTING ENGINEER over this nerf, and considering it’s not even as bad as the Elixir S nerf, it’s getting just plain silly around here.

Adamantium.3682:

….On the flip side I have never been disappointed when I need a revive from a Warrior, Necro, Ele, or Guardian. If they use the skill, I’m getting revived. Period. None of this “well I hope I’m not actually being hit by anything” as is present with Elixir R. Which is ironic because for Elixir R to work you have to pretty much be in a state where you could just use Bandage to revive yourself eventually.

Exactly. Why bring an engineer with a chance of a revive, when you could bring a Warrior with an instant up… or 2.

Where the R toss shines is with either A. decent range, or B. self rez which we DESPERATELY need due the appalling downed state we current have to suffer through.

I don’t know what is worse, realizing that if I take elixir R as a utility that I will more likely die because of chain stuns, or knowing that if I toss it before I go down, it has a less than 50/50 chance of reviving me before I get stomped and there is nothing I can do about it.

But hey, I can do two more rolls…

lunyboy.8672:

Adamantium.3682:

….On the flip side I have never been disappointed when I need a revive from a Warrior, Necro, Ele, or Guardian. If they use the skill, I’m getting revived. Period. None of this “well I hope I’m not actually being hit by anything” as is present with Elixir R. Which is ironic because for Elixir R to work you have to pretty much be in a state where you could just use Bandage to revive yourself eventually.

Exactly. Why bring an engineer with a chance of a revive, when you could bring a Warrior with an instant up… or 2.

Where the R toss shines is with either A. decent range, or B. self rez which we DESPERATELY need due the appalling downed state we current have to suffer through.

I don’t know what is worse, realizing that if I take elixir R as a utility that I will more likely die because of chain stuns, or knowing that if I toss it before I go down, it has a less than 50/50 chance of reviving me before I get stomped and there is nothing I can do about it.

But hey, I can do two more rolls…

You’re seriously saying bring a Warrior instead of an Engie with Elixir R into a tPvP team? Please… PLEASE… post this on the Warrior forums. I’ll go grab a bag of popcorn.