Guild Wars 2

Hey. I was wondering if anyone has crunched the numbers and compared the 2 damage types together. Furthermore I’ll be interested to see the numbers next to other classes of equivalent build.

I keep hearing various comments on the condineer’s superiority and then also later for that to be debunked and that the damage was considerable lower than what was previously thought.

I would also like to see if any testing or mathetics was done based on damage downtime. Basically how does the DPS hold up when a rotation can’t be kept. Or is interrupted.

To be clear I want to see the results, I don’t want to just hear ‘condi is better’. Thank you.

You’ve never thought take hybrid? I’m scrapper and use that. If you’re interested, you can see a little demonstration of both in this video:

Wahooooo!!!

You summoned me! =^..^= I’m on this for a loooong time now (they reduced my work to ashes with the balance patch that nerfed alacrity tough >>). Anyway …

… first of all you should check this thread out. I put A LOT work in it:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/All-Skills-Damage-for-Power-and-Condi-3/first#post6006236

What I can tell you is that the difference is smaller than ever. Against Sabby I managed to get 22k DpS with power, 24k DpS with condi. So what does this mean?

Sabby is the meatbag, so these are meatbag numbers. Sabby has 2597 armor (heavy).

Against Gorseval the numbers are approximately the same. I’d say condi will be a bit better since you have pauses (updraft / elite spirits) between, wich favors condi. However, you will use Slick Shoes then, wich reduces the condi dps to ashes compared to Power. Power has a solid auto attack, so your DpS will be like 20k (meatbag DpS), whereas condi will be around 16-18k. So you only will use condi if you play “No-Updraft”, brings you back to the Sabby meatbag numbers.

Against Vale Guardian you only need 2 (!) condi professions, mainly 2 condi engis. They deal really low dps against Vale itself, that’s why you put them to green field duty. Any additional Engi above 2 should play power for max dps. Vale Guardian has only 1910 armor (light) wich basicly means +30% power damage. So yea you’ll get almost 30k DpS with power in the FIRST phase. Moving will naturally cripple anyones DpS.

I recommend for green field duty: Condi Engi, condi Engi, Druid, DpS Mesmer (use 2 Mes).

If you got questions or doubts, just go ahead and ask!

Greez!
- Ziggy

What mode of gameplay? (PvE, PvP, WvW)

It matters.

In theory flamethrower 1 should do highest dps in vale the third phase, you know, it never miss.

guildabd.6529:

In theory flamethrower 1 should do highest dps in vale the third phase, you know, it never miss.

Bomb 1 would easily outpace It.

DGraves.3720:

guildabd.6529:

In theory flamethrower 1 should do highest dps in vale the third phase, you know, it never miss.

Bomb 1 would easily outpace It.

Good luck bombing while he moves over a red orb.

guildabd.6529:

DGraves.3720:

guildabd.6529:

In theory flamethrower 1 should do highest dps in vale the third phase, you know, it never miss.

Bomb 1 would easily outpace It.

Good luck bombing while he moves over a red orb.

Bravery isn’t for fools!

Xyonon.3987:

Against Vale Guardian you only need 2 (!) condi professions, mainly 2 condi engis. They deal really low dps against Vale itself, that’s why you put them to green field duty. Any additional Engi above 2 should play power for max dps. Vale Guardian has only 1910 armor (light) wich basicly means +30% power damage. So yea you’ll get almost 30k DpS with power in the FIRST phase. Moving will naturally cripple anyones DpS.

I don’t agree with this. The reason people bring 3 condi classes to VG isn’t because you need 3 to kill the red guardian, it’s so that the red guardian will die at approximately the same time as the blue and green guardians. The time you gained by bringing a power spec over a condi spec in the main phase will be wasted (and then some) when your 8 power/support players demolish the blue/green guardians and then wait for the 2 condi players to finish red.

It also provides some additional seeker control and healing for the red team during the split phase, which isn’t absolutely necessary but is helpful if the condi players are less experienced.

These problems are even worse if you are running something like condi druid, which isn’t bad in the fight overall but has poor personal DPS and a low amount of CC. Running a second engi as power when your only condi members are druid and another engi would make the fight more difficult.

guildabd.6529:

In theory flamethrower 1 should do highest dps in vale the third phase, you know, it never miss.

I don’t know what “theory” you’re talking about but this isn’t even remotely true. And not that it’s true in either case but do you mean a condi or power build?

You’re saying that flamethrower 1 outpaces the damage of all other engineer skills? No bomb kit 2, no grenade barrage, no blowtorch? If this is the case, the optimal DPS build for engineer against vale guardian is flamethrower, rifle turret (for instant cast surprise shot) and elixer U (instant cast quickness)…but somehow I doubt you are bringing that to your raids.

Wahoo!!

guildabd.6529:

In theory flamethrower 1 should do highest dps in vale the third phase, you know, it never miss.

DGraves.3720:

Bomb 1 would easily outpace It.

guildabd.6529:

Good luck bombing while he moves over a red orb.

Oh you can still miss 25% of all your bombs and outdamage FT #1. But yea, only hammer auto is stronger than FT auto, but has short range. Nade auto is slightly weaker, yet only aslong as the enemy burns.

Dinosaurs.8674:

Xyonon.3987:

Against Vale Guardian you only need 2 (!) condi professions, mainly 2 condi engis. They deal really low dps against Vale itself, that’s why you put them to green field duty. Any additional Engi above 2 should play power for max dps. Vale Guardian has only 1910 armor (light) wich basicly means +30% power damage. So yea you’ll get almost 30k DpS with power in the FIRST phase. Moving will naturally cripple anyones DpS.

I don’t agree with this. The reason people bring 3 condi classes to VG isn’t because you need 3 to kill the red guardian, it’s so that the red guardian will die at approximately the same time as the blue and green guardians. The time you gained by bringing a power spec over a condi spec in the main phase will be wasted (and then some) when your 8 power/support players demolish the blue/green guardians and then wait for the 2 condi players to finish red.

I don’t agree aswell. You need 3 condis if they have low-average expirience with the Engi, or if they have semi good condi professions in the first place. Their dps is enough to keep up with the rest of the group in the split phase tough.

You can bring the warrior to the condis aswell to give them might, since you have a might overflow at Green / Blue anyway. You can balance this a bit, but in the end you’ll be able to manage to finish all 3 Guardians off at the same time (approximately ofc). I mean normally Blue dies before Green too.

Dinosaurs.8674:

It also provides some additional seeker control and healing for the red team during the split phase, which isn’t absolutely necessary but is helpful if the condi players are less experienced.

This is one of the reasons why I suggest to play Condi Scrapper at VG. Superspeed, sustain, protection. Scrapper makes it very easy to tank the Red Guardian and the DpS loss is barely noticable at the Add and not even there against VG itself.

The 3rd Engi is a power Scrapper – but still an Engi too. He can support the red team aswell with things like Mortar or (yes I say it) Blast Gyro.

Dinosaurs.8674:

These problems are even worse if you are running something like condi druid, which isn’t bad in the fight overall but has poor personal DPS and a low amount of CC. Running a second engi as power when your only condi members are druid and another engi would make the fight more difficult.

Yea that’s the problem or running a bad condi profession in the first place. Condi druid is good for things like Gorsy with no ubdraft, but for VG? Horrible idea. You could even make better use of the druid if he’d play Staff/LB, rather than forcing another REAL dps dealer, rotting in the green fields.

But yea, only 2 condi Engis are suited, no other profession, agreed!

Dinosaurs.8674:

guildabd.6529:

In theory flamethrower 1 should do highest dps in vale the third phase, you know, it never miss.

I don’t know what “theory” you’re talking about but this isn’t even remotely true. And not that it’s true in either case but do you mean a condi or power build?

You’re saying that flamethrower 1 outpaces the damage of all other engineer skills? No bomb kit 2, no grenade barrage, no blowtorch? If this is the case, the optimal DPS build for engineer against vale guardian is flamethrower, rifle turret (for instant cast surprise shot) and elixer U (instant cast quickness)…but somehow I doubt you are bringing that to your raids.

He’s talking about the aa only I guess and he is obviously talking about power … But yea, only hammer auto is stronger than FT auto, but has short range. Nade auto is slightly weaker, yet only aslong as the enemy burns.

If he’s not talking about aa only, he’s just wrong, agreed!

Greez!
- Ziggy

Xyonon.3987:

Wahooooo!!!

You summoned me! =^..^= I’m on this for a loooong time now (they reduced my work to ashes with the balance patch that nerfed alacrity tough >>). Anyway …

… first of all you should check this thread out. I put A LOT work in it:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/All-Skills-Damage-for-Power-and-Condi-3/first#post6006236

---

What I can tell you is that the difference is smaller than ever. Against Sabby I managed to get 22k DpS with power, 24k DpS with condi. So what does this mean?

Sabby is the meatbag, so these are meatbag numbers. Sabby has 2597 armor (heavy).

Against Gorseval the numbers are approximately the same. I’d say condi will be a bit better since you have pauses (updraft / elite spirits) between, wich favors condi. However, you will use Slick Shoes then, wich reduces the condi dps to ashes compared to Power. Power has a solid auto attack, so your DpS will be like 20k (meatbag DpS), whereas condi will be around 16-18k. So you only will use condi if you play “No-Updraft”, brings you back to the Sabby meatbag numbers.

Against Vale Guardian you only need 2 (!) condi professions, mainly 2 condi engis. They deal really low dps against Vale itself, that’s why you put them to green field duty. Any additional Engi above 2 should play power for max dps. Vale Guardian has only 1910 armor (light) wich basicly means +30% power damage. So yea you’ll get almost 30k DpS with power in the FIRST phase. Moving will naturally cripple anyones DpS.

I recommend for green field duty: Condi Engi, condi Engi, Druid, DpS Mesmer (use 2 Mes).

---

If you got questions or doubts, just go ahead and ask!

Greez!
- Ziggy

Wow, perfect, this is precisely the answer I’ve been searching for! I will be reading that thread tomorrow (a bit late now) I look forward to it. Thank you for the brief overview. Much love <3

Wahoo!

Always happy to hear that! I will change the numbers if I find another universal build better. Like once the new raids are out, condi gets buffed a bit -> Viper trinkets “easy” optainable. An almost full viper Engi can throw the Sigil of Malice away and go for Earth instead, for increasing the DpS by a further tiny bit.

Greez!
- Ziggy