Guild Wars 2

So i have encountered numerous ppl in 1 vs 1 that started crying that i use my elite skill in 1 vs 1. I think it is kinda rediculeus. Engie class isnt really OP in anything unlike some other classes, and now we are not allowed to use our elite skill in a dual?

Ofc i could swap build so i can 1vs1 any class and fly around map with elixer gun and rocket boots, but wth is with that nonsens. Thief can stealth, war can take loads of dmg and loose condi fast, necro can con spam etc etc. Why would engie not be allowed to use that wich gives us the edge in combat.

How am i supposed to battle a thief that is unpossible to kill with non stop invis and dodges aside from lame flying around build. Idm if other ppl use elites, it gives them advantage too. If engie cant use elite like other class, we are not even close to equals in battle. Its like saying ranger cant use pet..

Tell them you will not use your elite skill if they don’t use their healing skill. I think it is reasonable trade.

The feeling is that, you only use your Elite crate because you know it’s a match you’re going to lose without that Elite crate.

cool pro’s dont use elite…
cause it as passive signet!

the game isn’t balanced for 1v1s.
if you are fighting anything in this game and do not use all tools available to you because of some misguided sense of honor or fairplay, thats when you’re a noob :p

As soon as they show me a receipt displaying that they payed for my copy of the game, I will start caring what they think about when I use my elite skill in a 1v1 against them. Until then, just tell them engineers have a trait that uses their tiers to lower the cool down on your next use of the skill.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

You have abilities so you can use them! There is no shame in crating 1v1! Crating in a 2v1 though! Well that cooldown could’ve gone to better use! Vee Wee has been crated 2v1! Even 3v1!

Vee Wee also recommends seeking them out and crating them again! If someone gets mad at you, it is your duty to make them even more mad! But never tell them off in chat! Instead type something simple like ez when you stomp them! Or stare at them when as they bleed out! Calling people names is for rookies!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Maskaganda.2043:

the game isn’t balanced for 1v1s.
if you are fighting anything in this game and do not use all tools available to you because of some misguided sense of honor or fairplay, thats when you’re a noob :p

yes, screw honor… those pvpers talk about honor when theyre the first ones to lag stab you in the back from half a mile away

i used to run around dueling rooms with my guild as “I Crate And You (Cry)”

but seriously though people who complain about crate just arnt that good, infact me and my buddys actually train so they can learn to beat crate easymode and vice versa, so never ever feel ashamed to crate 1v1, its literally a l2p issue.

The same people that complain about losing if you use supply crate are the same people that would complain about losing if you didn’t use supply crate. It’s only fair if it’s something they do to ensure the win. Seriously, some people that are attracted to pvp have fragile egos and can’t fathom that they could have just gotten outplayed since obviously only they (and whatever their class is) are legit. Half the time I use it when I am going to win a fight anyway just to give them something to rage about heh.

Engineer=The best kind of kill is OVERKILL.

Everyone else gets fantastic dueling, engis just want to watch the world burn.

Like Thieves with Basilisk Venom, Eles with Elemental Glyph, Warriors with their Signet, Rangers with RaO, the few Mesmers that love to Moa you, every Guardian ever that uses Renewed Focus or w/e it is, Necro running any elite period, they all use elites 1v1. ALL OF THEM. Don’t let them pretend for a second that you using your crate was the only thing contributing to your win.

A win is a win, ignore the loser’s insults as they lick their wounds.

it only makes you noob if you dont do something to try to make use of the turrets after the initial stun

Let’s try the Socratic method:

• Is crate a better solo or team utility?
• Is crate on long enough of a cooldown to warrant its selective use?
• Are there situations where crate is used inappropriately or unnecessarily?
• Is crate so strong of an elite that it can amend mistakes of a poor player?
• Assuming all other things equal between two players engaged in a 1v1, does requiring crate to win say something about player ability?
• Do poor players sometimes misconstrue a win as coming from personal ability instead of using a strong skill?

Eng crate is not good … instead Lich form of necro , moa of mesmer or perma stun of some warrior builds are OK in 1 vs 1 …

PierPiero.9142:

Eng crate is not good … instead Lich form of necro , moa of mesmer or perma stun of some warrior builds are OK in 1 vs 1 …

crate is good, for example its an instant i win button against a lot of thieves when used properly.

moa is a joke. whatever youre saying about warrior isnt even an elite… talking about hammer?

Noobs cry when they lose. And they blame it on you when they should blame themselves. They’re the same types who cry that low sweep is cheese mode in every sidescroll fighting game.

Yo, honestly I think crate is fine but its common knowledge thats it considered unfair in most 1v1. Though when vsing a SA thief, pu condition mesmer, condition terrormancer, Celestial ele or War anything goes imo.

in most cases if i am dueling a guy in wvw and he begs me not to use supply crate, and i am in a power setup, i use elixir x

if u get tornado.. well he wont go near u for some time, it rocks if u get rampage tho, skill 3 hits for around 4 k, all other skills r cc, and after the duel they complain about ur rampage :p

anyway, if its in a pvp server (mostly all eu pvp dueling servers ) got the rule not to use any elite above 121 sec, as ranger u cant use entangle for example, but can be traited to 120 s, and is allowed afterwards, if ur duel was there, it could be that case

anyway, it could also be that supply crate is strongest elite ingame (most impactful) in a pvp perspective (player vs player, i dont mean the game mode) and they dont wanna fight smth like that

1v1 fair in GW2? ???? Crate is fair no matter what.

I never use it in a 1v1, crate is way too strong

Crate is ridiculous in a 1v1. Why does this thread even exist? Everybody knows that? :s

I have never been crated and destroyed in a 1v1 that I was not going to lose anyways. I have never gone against an engi that I was sure I’d beat and then lost because of some crate. crate is effective and useful, but nowhere near a game changer or “best elite in the game!” lol. OP, ignore these people, and crate some faces.

I especially enjoy people that lose and respond with some variation of “It’s because you used your elite nob” then you fight them again without the elite and still win and they still want to talk trash only this time it’s about something else. If you really want to see them steam, the next time you fight them and they lose, drop the crate on them while you are doing the stomp as just that little extra kick to the teeth.

My favourites are the ones that call me a noob for using my elite, while they use theirs.

You can taste the salt.

Thx all for responses, i see a lot of us think the same way! I guess its true that true balance can never be achieved. Even if both players use same skills/class/race and whatnot there is always a randomness factor of skills, luck and lags. Mostly it is thieves complaining, and altough i understand why, a smart thief should step aside and ignore it. A lot of good 1 vs 1 i had with other engies that i won and lost were determined on first strike. When it comes to that, thieves have absolutly no right of complaining i think.

I think the OP is overplaying engis being bad without crate. Engis are far from worthless without crate.

The real answer to your question is that you should pop crate when you need to. The bullkitten answer is that crate naturally diminishes in value as the number of enemy players gets larger (since turrets die to cleave incredibly quick).

If it’s 1v1 in any form of PVP it’s not noob since getting your 1v1 down asap is important…you’re either capping a node faster or more enemies could be on the way or both.

The best is when someone who uses repeated “stealth” and skills titled “backstab” and want to cry fowl. As well we have “mindstabs” and illusions, pets, , death itself, transformations, and thugs swinging massive hammers at us, and “traps” as well , but drop one crate on their head and the cry like little girls with a skinned knee.

If I had another Elite to choose from maybe I would use that instead.

I don’t use Supply Crate in 1v1 duels. I feel too guilty as I know it’ll give me a win by not by my own merits. If other people choose to use their elites then that’s their prerogative, that’s just my personal code.

It’s best not to hold onto crate for too long or you get fewer uses out of it in a game. Using it to secure a 1v1 is probably one of the better ways of using it. Against good eles the fight may never end if you don’t make good use of crate. Against other engineers it gives you a huge advantage, although if they manage to get out of the initial cc they can play far back and just grenade it. Against wars if you make them pop stances and then crate it’s basically gg.

Crates also speed up 1v1s and make it easier to hold out 1v2. Both of these are huge when the other team is rotating another one in.

There really aren’t too many bad uses for this skill. If it’s off cool down and you find yourself needing a bit more of an advantage in a fight you may as well use it.

Play to win…

For fun you should ask this again in the thief thread. Then we can all go laugh at the answers.

I hesitate to use the crate sometimes because I want to try and win without it. When I’m dueling someone, I primarily play to get better at using my skills, making reads, learning matchups, &c., and so I try to play as though I don’t have access to the crate (i.e. pretending its on cooldown). But there’s honestly no shame in using it. It’s an ability you have, and you should use it as you see fit. In fact, one could argue that you should use it because it’s important to know when and how to drop it properly so you don’t completely waste the thing in a real fight.

There have, however, been many instances where I could have won a fight if I used the crate, but didn’t use it and didn’t end up winning. I don’t mind so much when I’m dueling since my goal isn’t necessarily to win all the time, but I’ll even hesitate using it in real fights when I really shouldn’t.

Sometimes I’ll even just open a fight with the crate so I don’t have to worry about when to use it later. It puts some people immediately on the defensive too, which you can use to your advantage.

Even if you didn’t use supply crate in those, they would just complain about something else because that’s the kind of people they are (i.e. you only win because rifle has free CC, you just spam grenades all over the place, &c.). So crate away.

when you see an enemy do you expect them not to use some of their skills because “unfair”? i don’t and neither should my opponent unless we agreed to it beforehand.

I think you should offer the next fight to be a water balloon fight. That way it will be perfectly even! THEN CRATE HIM.

They always need some explanation why they lose you know?:-)

I find that using crate makes the encounter too easy, we really don’t depend on the crate at all and so I don’t want to use it until I absolutely have to. In an Engineer vs Engineer fight it will go stale, both Engineers drop their crates and stay near it.

I wouldn’t call people who use a crate noobs though. What I generally say is if you use your Elite, I use mine.

Hmmmm, if engie used SC – just get away from range of turrets? Or it’s too hard to understand?

Anton.1769:

Hmmmm, if engie used SC – just get away from range of turrets? Or it’s too hard to understand?

getting away for most proffessions isnt so easy, its mostly a cc+ net turret immob

ofc the better players always watch out for supply crate animation and dodge accordingly , and always try avoiding it(its actually pretty easy avoiding it if u watch out for it)

but if it hits, it turns the whole fight, enemy is locked there cant do a thing while an engi bursts them down

i play nearly every proffessions, but mainly an ele , mes and engi, so i look at it not from one view only

ofc it feels as if it is underwhelming for the engi, its actually not

In best case you can make distance and receive 1 shoot from each turret
In worst case – maybe 2-3. Ppl losed because fight to end at this forest of turrets

Anton.1769:

Hmmmm, if engie used SC – just get away from range of turrets? Or it’s too hard to understand?

i run toolkit and just pull people back in

It’ is considered unfair because there are unwritten rules for duels.
“No elite over 120 seconds CD” is one of them, mostly because those kind of elites can turn the 1v1 in your favor very quickly, just like Supply Crate, or Lich Form, or Moa Morph. Other examples are “no Pu mesmers” and “no Shadow Rejuvenation thieves”, and there some amulets restrictions too.

It’s not a valid reason for being called noob, though, especially if you’re in a tournament and you NEED to win that 1v1, but if you are in hot join, and the enemy respects those rules, it could be a good idea to just stick to them.

Rest assured, you can just ignore the rules and do whatever you like. I basically never use Supply Crate in a Hot Join 1v1, but if I encountered an engi who does, I would use mine too.

Frenk.5917:

It’ is considered unfair because there are unwritten rules for duels.

I hate those guys who tell you you are no able use this or that you are noob because you use this trait or build. War (even duel) is never fair. I play for win and will always use everything even all dirty tricks I have and if opponent not? Thats not my problem.

Maskaganda.2043:

the game isn’t balanced for 1v1s.
if you are fighting anything in this game and do not use all tools available to you because of some misguided sense of honor or fairplay, thats when you’re a noob :p

Thats the best answer !!! In my opinion he is absolutly right !

@Unwritten rules:
The thing with unwritten rules is they are quite fishy, at best. Guild Wars 2 has one basic ruleset: the game itself with all tools given to players. These are the “written” rules everyone knows and agrees to by playing the game. If you want to alter these rules, tell the people. There are 1on1 servers in sPvP with their own rules and ones without them. Play by the rules given by the admins. If you don’t like them, don’t fight there. If you fight on a random server or a random 1on1 in WvW state your rules and see if your opponent agrees to them. If you and/or your opponent don’t want to do this fight by the rules of the game and not by those of a stranger or a server far away from your fight. If you really want to, play by these rules for yourself, but don’t expact it from others or blame them for not doing so.
By the way, I remember “no elite” being an unwritten rule. I remember “no los” being an unwritten rule. I remember “no elite >60sec CD” being an unwritten rule and last but not least “no elite >90sec CD”. For necro’s death shroud and warrior’s adrenaline % at the start of a fight there have also been different values floating around in the mystic realm of unwritten rules.
Here you can see my unwritten reference.

@Bans:
For banned elites I’d argue that at least one of the main reasons isn’t their strength but their CD. People are usually waiting quite a while to play on a king of the hill server but also don’t want to fight an unprepared enemy so the less high CDs you use the less people have to wait.
Also, the best counter-tactic for many of these high-CD elites (given you’re not screwed by their effects initially) is delaying the fight by kiting, getting out of range etc. An extreme example here is crate: people will just stand back out of range since they’d be at a disadvantage fighting among the turrets and a stubborn engi will stay near them, resulting in a minute of well… an awkward fight pause nobody enjoys watching or playing.
Moas will kite/los/get out of range till they get their skills back. Vs lich people will kite/los. Fights with/against PU mesmers/SA thieves tend to be very long and aren’t fun watching for most of the people I guess. For the same reason there are servers banning tanks / def. amulets.
So these elites aren’t primarily banned because they are OP but for the sake of a better time for everyone on these servers. 1on1 servers are mainly for fun, praticing, experimenting and watching fights.

@Crate:
Yeah, it rocks when it hits. However, it has a pretty long casting time and is quite telegraphed. Also, if countered/evaded you have to fight without it for 3min. There are enemies/builds which can do less against it than others, but it’s far from an “Iwin”-button.

• CC and damage wise flesh golem’s charge is just as devastating (and comparable telegraphed) while not even having a fourth of the CD, basilisk venom forces as many dodges / stuns longer than crate after the second activation (which is usually given by it’s short CD).
• For self-defense both Mass invis from mesmer and guard’s Renewed Focus surpass Crate in many 1on1 scenarios.
• Both Signet of Rage and Rampage as One are potent offensive buffs, the latter can be quite riduculous in matchups vs. CC reliant builds due to 20sec(+boon duration) of stability.

Crate is another strong skill on your bar with good potential and can decide a fight. But so can other elites, other weapon and utility skills and even certain traits. GW2 has a great skill-based combat but when both fighters have reached a similar skill level builds will be a deciding factor. So Crate might be overkill in one matchup (build x vs build y) but might actually be useful for balancing another (build x vs build z).
Special rules or the lack of them will favor certain builds and handicap others. Sometimes they’ll lead to a more balanced fight, sometimes to a more unbalanced one. I know it’s frustrating to be crated to death but loosing a fight because you obeyed someone’s rules and handicapped yourself isn’t fun either.

Do I use crate in 1on1’s?
Rarely. You don’t have to crate people you’re beating without it (“overkill”). Also, it’s on 3min CD. When roaming in wvw, you want to hold your trump card back for the moments you really need it in. And if you used it shortly before you have to fight without it, so no matter what, you should learn to not rely on it just like others should learn to deal with it in case you use it.

OP, remember there’ll always be people raging. You can play on a gameboy with a 1 button mouse and 2sec ping using a 0/0/0/0/0 build while a parrot is dancing on your head, if you manage to beat them some will still get mad.

tl;dr: Here’s a list of special unwritten rules you have to play by, everything else is voluntarily.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

There is no problem using crate in a 1v1! Just try to put it to good use! Like for a Veecap! It’s Vee Wee’s patented decap move!

http://www.twitch.tv/livskis/c/4907476
http://www.twitch.tv/livskis/c/4947480

And check out the thread on the Veecap made by me! Vee Wee!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/The-Veecap-an-engineer-technique-by-Vee-Wee/

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Rozbuska.5263:

Frenk.5917:

It’ is considered unfair because there are unwritten rules for duels.

I hate those guys who tell you you are no able use this or that you are noob because you use this trait or build. War (even duel) is never fair. I play for win and will always use everything even all dirty tricks I have and if opponent not? Thats not my problem.

As I said in my post, everyone can do whatever he wants to: using everything you can to win a duel surely is a solid point of view.
At the same time, following these rules is a sort of code of honor that people may or may not want to follow. It’s just considered “fairplay”, just like when in a ESL weekly tournament of some weeks ago a player disconnected from one team and one player of the enemy team decided to go “afk” to even the match.

Just like I said, I prefer to not to use Crate in order to win a duel (in Hotjoins only, NOT in a competitive environment) because that’s a method to prove yourself you are capable of winning following that code.

Everyone is free to do whater he wants!

There are codes of honor, and they certainly have their value. One might enforce some limits on himself in order to force himself to get better. One might decide to give his enemy every possible chance in order to show himself that there is no way that their opponent could have beat him. One might decide handicapping themselves is more fair due to a variety of reasons.

However, if someone I trying to enforce their own personal code on you, that isn’t a code of honor. That is them trying to handicap you and if they are successful, it actually has the opposite effect than sticking to a code of honor has. It stacks the deck in their favor in order to give them a clear advantage. It shows that they aren’t as confident in their skills as they may wish they were.

tldr: Trying to handicap someone else is a sign of weakness. No duelist in any sport or competition should expect their opponent to handicap themselves. If they really had a code of honor, they wouldn’t throw tantrum when you choose not to follow it because the entire purpose of a code of honor is to follow a set of rules that may not be followed by others.