Guild Wars 2

Good afternoon Engies, what new skill type dont you want from Elite Specialization?

No banners (we have experimental turrets / thrown elixirs for aoe-buffing)
No minions (we already have turrets)
No traps (mines would be ok, tho)
No shouts (too weak / insta-casts on long cd’s usually, or even weaker than weak)
No tricks (we already have gadgets)
No conjured weapons (we already have kits)

basically we will need something that gives us melee sustain, condi-clears and stability, so signets, stances, or symbols come to mind. Physical or survival could work as well.

If my personal wishes came true, make it meditations that have a couple of insta-cast charges.

Arantheal.7396:

If my personal wishes came true, make it meditations that have a couple of insta-cast charges.

Thats mantras.

Arantheal.7396:

If my personal wishes came true, make it meditations that have a couple of insta-cast charges.

sounds like mantras

Dimes.6024:

Arantheal.7396:

If my personal wishes came true, make it meditations that have a couple of insta-cast charges.

sounds like mantras

I thought meditations teleport

yea, was a typo, I meant mantras

and no, we don’t need teleports.
rocketboots, superspeed, Acid bomb, and I guess the hammer comes with at least 1 gap-closer as well. That should be good enough mobility for us. I mean, regardless what the new utilities will be, slickshoes will have great synergy with hammer already
Teleports would be nice in general, but we don’t really need them and could use some sustain instead.

I mean, all classes currently get a specific role they couldn’t fulfill so far.
Necro gets melee dps/sustain
Guardian gets valid long-range combat
Mesmer gets awesome group-support, beyond just group-stealth

So, the question is: what do we lack?
Melee-cleave? one could argue no, since bombs apparently cover that, but in reality they are aerial denial at best, since one can walk out of them too easily, so there is no real melee cleave, unless your target is dumb enough to chase you.

So yes, we lack melee-cleave, and feel comfortable most in mid-range, while going close up for some bursts. Hence we get the hammer.
And beyond that? We have poor – if any – stability, and the new trait system doesn’t look like it improves our condi-clears (just giving us additional effects for cleared condis). So getting a utility-type that allows for frequent stability/condi-clears/stunbreaks is mandatory, especially since our new specialization appears to be melee-cleave/control. Looking on other classes, stances, shouts, signets and symbols usually provide stability. For reasons explained in another thread, shouts are scratched from the list, so I wish for stances, signets or symbols.

Symbols don’t make any sense, since I can’t imagine any explanation – that excludes the use of magic – that would allow us to inscribe and turn the ground below our feet. Maybe alchemical puddles, but elixir gun and throw-elixirs kinda has that explanation covered. Also symbols are static, while these drone thingys in the trailer were moving with us.

Signets sound logical, since in opposite to other classes that use magically inscribed symbols on some stones, our symbols could be upgrades to our combat-suits (we already have traits that imply such upgrades, like energized armor). And since signets come with a active effect as well, that could explain the drones from the trailer.

Stances seem the most-forward skill that we get to use. Temporary, powerful upgrades to our armor / defensive mechanisms, one of which’s animation could be the drones.

The rumor about the defiance bar sounds most logical for the warrior specialization, especially since focus is one of the possible weapons they could gain (think battle-talisman that primitive tribes used to give to their warriors), but if I’m completely off with my reasoning, and we get neither stances nor signets, but some kind of minions, spirit weapons or spirits, chances are that we will be the ones who get the defiance bar instead to compensate for our current lack of melee-sustain.

Anyways, to underline OP’s topic again:
We definitively don’t want utilities that don’t come with a good load of sustain, unless our new class-mechanic covers that, like guardian virtues or the defiance bar.

Arantheal.7396:

No banners (we have experimental turrets / thrown elixirs for aoe-buffing)
No minions (we already have turrets)
No traps (mines would be ok, tho)
No shouts (too weak / insta-casts on long cd’s usually, or even weaker than weak)
No tricks (we already have gadgets)
No conjured weapons (we already have kits)

Personally, I would add signets to the list. I just find them way too boring for the engineer playstyle.

I would love mantras, though.

Signets are boring, true.
But since most signet-skills cover our biggest weaknesses, I wouldn’t mind getting them to be able to compete in melee with other classes. Getting a completely non-viable hammer-spec sounds worse than getting a dull utility-type along with it. in the end I want to H-train people, and getting a couple of valid builds that do not depend on kits sounds promising as well.
If we get signets, I guess we’ll only pick the best one out of the sustain options and slot in other kits / elixirs / gadgets regardless. Can’t think of a build with zero weapon-swaps that relies solely on passive signets.
Now if such a build would become our new meta, THAT would be brain-dead and a reason for me to cry in vain. As you, I like versatility in my play-style, hence i play engineer. But I wouldn’t mind slotting 1 or even 2 signets into my builds, depending on their actives.

Arantheal.7396:

Symbols don’t make any sense, since I can’t imagine any explanation – that excludes the use of magic – that would allow us to inscribe and turn the ground below our feet. Maybe alchemical puddles, but elixir gun and throw-elixirs kinda has that explanation covered. Also symbols are static, while these drone thingys in the trailer were moving with us.

.

I disagree. If Engineer Elite Spec is Alchemist, makes perfect sense for them to have Symbols. Remind me of Full Metal Alchemist

The trailers had something resembling minions, just putting that out there

Anything that isn’t a minion or similar is fine with me.
(by the way, we can still have shouts; the wording they used was quite clear in that regard – one gets traps, and at least one gets shouts)

All skill types (except traps and shouts) more or less.

The engineer have a very special bond to their utilities and cramming in nonsensical stuff like consecrations, signets or nature rituals are just throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Our current categories can be used extensively within our theme. Kits for advanced weponry or equipment. Turrets for stationary artillery (or they would if they where good) or general area denial with the twist that instead of waiting for an aoe to pass you can destroy it. Explosives for aoe and spectacular michael bay moments. Elixirs to double dip into magical effects (like stealth, projectile blocks, buffs etc.). And then we have gadgets for the rest of the shenanigans (in the fashion of physicals, survival, tricks etc.).

But i could see a trap and deployables focused specialization using devices sneakily planted into the environment.

And as for shouts, if they make sure to not step on the warriors or guardians toes of commanding and so on i could see it working. One cool way of doing this would be to have the engineers shouts be radio communication . Meaning we talk into a little radio device while requesting artillery strikes or sniper support and so on(insert orbital strike). Even supply crate could then be considered a shout. It provides us with yet another distinct take on a familiar utility type while still keeping the theme of the engineer. Could be named commando or operative or something, i dont know.

But as ive said, i think they should focus on adding more of our current skill types (another kit, another gadget, another elixir etc.).

As already mentioned, something that helps us fight better in melee range. The hammer is most likely going to be melee and it needs some abilities to go with it so that we don’t just easily get kited around the area.

I am thinking survival-ish skills. In the trailer we saw those little robots, could be some sort of shield like the robots absorb several hits. That could be a survival-ish skill.

Arantheal.7396:

We have poor – if any – stability, and the new trait system doesn’t look like it improves our condi-clears (just giving us additional effects for cleared condis)

We do get a minor trait that removes 1 condition when you use a heal skill. Depending on the ICD, it could make Med Kit worthwhile as a condi-clear.

There’s also that trait that halves condi duration when your health drops low.

^The problem is that 1st 50% on damaging conditions will mostly not have any effect as they will usually still have enough duration to kill you anyways (since you are sub 33% health) and more importantly the condistacks that got you below 33% in the first case are still in full effect, meaning you are still dead. Had it been 50% i could consider rolling with it as a gimmick (since we now have to choose a grandmaster anyways).

I’m really curious to see what we will get.
But in my opinion we will not get anything any other class already have.
At the moment I think we will get :
1 kit
1 elixir
1 gadget
1 turret

To me,every solution they find if not coupled with at least 1 new kit(the mortar kit is not an HoT feature we will get it before expansion from what I understand ,and I consider it the right fix for kitteneless elite after 3 years) will be a bit disappointing.

But…who knows,they can surprise me.

I’m down for just about anything non-passive. The thing that would disappoint me most would be Signets, because I think they both have the most passive gameplay and the best chance to supplant more active skills by providing something like a power/condi boost or stab.

It would also go a long way towards making engineer feel a lot more like the rest of the professions, which would be a crying shame in my opinion. I feel like an elite specialization should make you feel more unique in concept, not less.

we can work the theme of mantras in to engi pretty well actually.. homemade, jerry rigged gadgets that work a few times before exploding lol. takes a little time to build it, but then you get a few uses out of it before it pops. i dont think that should be called a mantra, but you know, they could even edit current gadgets to work like mantras…

well.. actually… mantras arent great. i dont think it would make gadgets worth using. unless youre getting 3 rocket boots in a row. that seems legit. or dumb. one of the two.

The problem with engi isn’t lacking utility skills but the limited space for it. Kits are mandatory for pretty much any build except the useless turret(which was better with toolkit or elixir gun anyway) and static discharge which also takes toolkit mostly.

That being said there is simply no place for more than 1 maybe 2 non-kit utility.

In pvp you need a stunbreak so that further limits choices and in pve the best utility is usually grenade flamethrower elixir gun with the odd toolkit for harder scenarios. As usual nobody cares about wvw so I’m not gonna mention it.

Knighthonor.4061:

Dimes.6024:

Arantheal.7396:

If my personal wishes came true, make it meditations that have a couple of insta-cast charges.

sounds like mantras

I thought meditations teleport

Only Inteventions. Judges requiring an enemy target to teleport to, and Merciful Intevention requiring an ally near your desired location. Smite Conditions doesn’t, Litany of Wrath doesn’t. Focused Renewal doesn’t, Contemplation of Purity doesn’t.

I don’t really want Minions in the sense of necro/guard minions. Even ranger minions I think would clash with turrets for overall design. However, I liked someone’s idea they posted before. Flying turrets = visual mantras. We summon them, they have multiple triggers we can use, then they disappear.

I also think Signets would just be weird in that we’d have 2 activates for any skill, seems silly when the idea of signets is that if you activate you lose the bonus, would we have split passives that get knocked out depending on toolbelt or skill bar usages? Just seems a bit funky, wouldn’t hate it, but just seems wrong.

Shouts/Traps/Wells are off the table I believe.

Tricks also seem too close to gadgets.

I would not mind Deception to get a little bit of mobility additions. I’d love another smoke field, a teleport, or even something creative like a temporary visual clone that does nothing but distract the enemy (so not really an illusion, just a dummy for them to attack while you slip off). I think this type of play would synergize well with Engi’s fast play style.

Nirvana.8659:

I’m really curious to see what we will get.
But in my opinion we will not get anything any other class already have.
At the moment I think we will get :
1 kit
1 elixir
1 gadget
1 turret

To me,every solution they find if not coupled with at least 1 new kit(the mortar kit is not an HoT feature we will get it before expansion from what I understand ,and I consider it the right fix for kitteneless elite after 3 years) will be a bit disappointing.

But…who knows,they can surprise me.

This. I’m not even sure I WANT a new skill type. Toss me a new kit and I probably won’t even care what the rest of the skills are. As it is, just about any non-kit engineer utility has to be pretty much overpowered to be worth taking over a kit.

So, no matter what the skill type is, the new skills will have to be draw-dropping amazing, or most of us will still run-2-3 kit builds anyways. (Maybe even 4 or 5 kit builds with the reworked medkit and mortar kit)

Unless, the new hammer has some kind of mechanic that rewards us for not switching weapons, (or punishes us for doing so) like if those drones are perhaps some kind of charge you build up as you use the hammer so you power-up the longer you have it out.

We might actually be better off just getting more choices for the current utilities that synergize well with the skills and traits we currently have. So a new kit that pairs nicely with the hammer, a new elixer that works into a potential hammer HGH build, a new gadget that functions as a pull, immobilize or teleport to work with the hammer, some kind of forcefield turret that functions like a guardian ward to keep people from escaping your mighty hammer blows, etc.

So unlike other Elite specializations, which are designed to be taken as a full set for maximum synergy, the engineer one, if made this way, would be designed so you’d just take 1-2 of the skills in it depending on what your other two chosen trait lines are.

Often said turrets need rework for PvP and WvW.

I´d like “instruction Manuals”.
Sth like – build a grmpflbtz according to this manual, to have a whatever effekt.
Grmpflbtz would grant some buffs like pulsing boons / conditions / boon removals / heal etc.
(eg gives might, fury, and removes blind every second, for 10 sec )

If the “manual idea” id too much like the guardians book, it could be “body improvement” ( nice design options — like the new kits some stuff that´s applied on the engi as long as the buff lasts. Drones surrounding him, a robo arm carrying a shield, a headwear containing goggles and stuff, Boots and lower armor skinns containing robotic leg supporting stuff, a “burning” – aura around the actual weapon, …..)

Since I´m a WvW player, I´d love stuff like pusling grp stability, protection, boon removal, etc ^^

But I could also imagine some new stuff that includes difficult gameplay like pulsing combo finishers ( while you can still cast stuff ),
or absorbing xy % of incoming burst/condi dmg that is used at the end for sth — a burst, or a heal, or even a amount of blast finishers / boons according to the ammount of dmg absorbed.

eg:
releases an explosion finisher at the end of the duration for each 1k dmg absorbed.

At the moment, the area in which Engineer is weak is WvW zerging primarily.

In dungeons it is a strong class, in PvP it is a strong class and in roaming it is a strong class.

With retaliation etc. still in effect, I believe Hammer will give us real melee and with traits like Bunker Down giving med kits, all blasts heal and blast on dodge, they are trying to push engineer to be viable in zergs. So I personally believe we can expect to see stability potentially, and a lot of group utility.

We’ll see if it works.

Engis are probably getting Robotic Minions. Minibots? That’d be pretty cool, depending on the implementation.

Pets i hate pets if people want pets there are pet classes for them just no pet please.

No independent AIs, please.
No RNG skills, please.

Passive cleansing and sustentability could sound boring, but I think it isn’t bad at all. In fact I think we need something to rest the fingers a while. We always can take 3 kits and a single “signet”, and have more than enough changing and cycling around with the Hammer, the NMortar and wathever 2 extra kits you want.

I would like if every skill give you the option to choose between the normal tool belt secondary skill an a “toolbelt passive effect”. Those could be the drones: you can have just one or all of them, and it let us retain the complexity of the class, while giving the less skilled or more casual people the option to play an easier engie.

As long as we get something that can compete with 2-3 kit builds in PvE (though not outshine them completely), I’d be happy for whatever. (Or just give the grenade kit it’s kitten ed auto-attack.)

I don’t like being shoe-horned into only 1 build per profession. Yeah, I know that every profession has one optimal build, but they all have variations of viable builds that are easier to learn. I like the engie has high skill cap to play to its best…I don’t like that there’s no way to climb up to that skill cap without going up a cliff. Especially since I don’t run with consistently good groups. So even a full grenade build is…almost pointless.

I’m a fan of Mantras, though I don’t know that they fit Engineer when literally referred to as such. The charge-and-then-instacast system easily fits with some sort of Engineer wind-up device, but having the Engineer actually chant something to get their charges isn’t very Engineery at all.

I would like consecrations or glamour skills
Obv engineer themed

Toolbox.9375:

I’m a fan of Mantras, though I don’t know that they fit Engineer when literally referred to as such. The charge-and-then-instacast system easily fits with some sort of Engineer wind-up device, but having the Engineer actually chant something to get their charges isn’t very Engineery at all.

lol, what about FPS callouts?
RELOADING! (refreshes firearm skills)
PLANTING EXPLOSIVES! (PBAoE explosion)
GET DOWN! (dodge and break stun)
SUPPRESSING FIRE! (blind and vuln)
The whole thing about the Commando being an April Fool’s day joke confirmed as an April Fool’s day joke.

My thoughts:
1. Engineers do not rely on magic, so all the spellcaster classes are improbable: no mantras, manipulations or glamours (mesmer); no cantrips, conjures or arcane (elementalist); no meditations, consecrations, or spirit weapons (guardian); no wells, curses or minions (necromancer).
2. Nature is the complete opposite of technology, and so ranger is also out of the field.
3. That leaves open pretty much anything related to the non-magical classes being warrior and thief: stances, physicals and shouts (warrior); deceptions and tricks (thief).

Out of the proposed, I really think physical skills are the most appropriate, combined with a really physical weapon, the hammer.

Those are just my 2 cents.

Sirendor.1394:

My thoughts:
1. Engineers do not rely on magic, so all the spellcaster classes are improbable: no mantras, manipulations or glamours (mesmer); no cantrips, conjures or arcane (elementalist); no meditations, consecrations, or spirit weapons (guardian); no wells, curses or minions (necromancer).
2. Nature is the complete opposite of technology, and so ranger is also out of the field.
3. That leaves open pretty much anything related to the non-magical classes being warrior and thief: stances, physicals and shouts (warrior); deceptions and tricks (thief).

Out of the proposed, I really think physical skills are the most appropriate, combined with a really physical weapon, the hammer.

Those are just my 2 cents.

you can pretty much take any of those magic/nature based utilities and change the theme to something techy without changing the core mechanics and itll fit just fine for engi.

mesmer feedback? instead of magic, an engi uses asuran forcefield tech.
time warp? instead of magic, an engi manipulates his frame of reference with a few rocket engines, and special relativity makes things a little weird.
muddy terrain? an engi temporarily liquifies the ground by shooting several terawatt-hours of energy through it.

Sirendor.1394:

My thoughts:
1. Engineers do not rely on magic, so all the spellcaster classes are improbable: no mantras, manipulations or glamours (mesmer); no cantrips, conjures or arcane (elementalist); no meditations, consecrations, or spirit weapons (guardian); no wells, curses or minions (necromancer).

Dude, You’re missing the point.
We LITERALLY have the Guardian’s Wall of reflection, The Elementalist’s Tornado form, The Necromancer’s Plauge form, (And maybe soon Moa transformation and other stuff) which are all spells on those classes. But the Engineer’s whole thing is looking at all this magic stuff and saying “Tch, I can do the same kitten thing you can, but with more explosions!” And recreating the effects of magic without actually using magic. We already have the spellcaster’s skills.

To pull a quote “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”

Besides, the idea is to mimic the gameplay of magical skill types, not the themes. So take an engineer “Conjure” for example. The idea to take away isn’t using magical weapons, but the idea of dropping weapons on the ground that alies can pick up. If engineers had the ability to drop kits or guns on the ground that other people could pick up and use then BAM, functionally it’s an engineer “conjure” like the elementalist’s weapons, even if you call it something else.

For “wells” you could drop a dirty bomb that damages nearby enemies with radiation before finally exploding. (Thus having effects in tics with a final hit like Chonomancer wells) A lot of mesmer skill types could likely be replicated with holograms, for phantasm, clone or glamour knock-offs (Heck we’ve SEEN bosses that use holograms as phantasms) People have already said “mantras” would instead be building or charging a gadget that has 2-3 uses before it breaks. The idea of a mantra gameplay wise is simply a skill that front-loads it’s cast time so you spend 2-3 seconds stocking a skill for a future instant cast when you really need it.

I don’t see why an engineer couldn’t have some electric gadget that needs to be pre-charged like a mantra, but yes, it would have a different name.

That said, physical skills are actually pretty likely, though several gadgets basically already are. Like rocket boots and the batering ram. Something purely physical like a kicking attack or charging attack seems pretty un-engie like, but then gadget physicals would just be… more gadgets, not a new skill type. Same with tricks and deceptions.

That said, I’d be cool with just getting more gadgets.

@Insane & Arioso:

Fair points, I didn’t look at it that way. Of course if they rename these skill types and completely change the way they’re perceived (what Arioso calls “themes”), it could “mechanically” be a chargeable mantra gadget for example. Like now we got some elixers doing similar stuff to magical spells, but “working techy”.

Still in my opinion the feel wouldn’t be particularly mantralike, and it would be kinda contrary to what Anet are trying: to add distinctive skill sets which repeat in several classes: shouts, wells, traps being examples.

Even though of my personal stance here, it’s food for thought. Thanks for the reaction.

Arioso.8519:

Something purely physical like a kicking attack or charging attack seems pretty un-engie like, but then gadget physicals would just be… more gadgets, not a new skill type. Same with tricks and deceptions.

rocket kick is an awesome thing!

NO SIGNETS! Unless the signets are revamped and do more active things rather than curing a condition, healing, applying condi’s, etc.

I was thinking maybe minions with those drones. But the drones disappear when the engi uses his first attack in the HoT trailer.

I do hope the new ults are nice

I do not like the idea some of you guys mentioned about the drones being a visual charge count of a buff or charged mantra.
It’s a much more obvious ‘tell’ than what other classes have, I wouldn’t want my enemies in pvp to know how many charges of a powerful skill or something central to my build’s play style I have left.

I mean, I might just be bad but it is much easier to see an ele’s armor of earth than a warrior’s stability stance and avoid wasting a CC skill. I don’t want the cosmetic awesomeness of having drones being a handicap.

youre right, warrior stances are poorly telegraphed. warrior stances should be given an obvious visual cue on the toon, and not just an ignorable icon on the buff bar. and the passive balanced stance has 0 counterplay, it shouldnt be triggered off of passively countering a cc.

Contrary to popular opinion I’d like to have Bots (minions). Now I’ve not played with turrets that much but one thing I wanted when I started gw2 were mobile bots/drones. After trying the turrets I felt they were lacklustrr, in my opinion, and only used rifle turret in my SD build. Now after the HoT trailer seeing what looked like an engi swinging a hammer and being followed my ‘drones’ I got excited. Never the less here is my concept of what the engi spec could be:
Engineer Specialisation – Machinist

Weapon: Hammer
Utility Skills: Minions (Bots)

Static Bot – 1/2sec – 20sec
Deploy a Bot that fires a beam of lightning your target. Activate the bot to deploy a static field at its location. Bot becomes immobile for 5sec
Toolbelt skill: Zap – Stun Target for 1sec

Blade Bot – 1/2sec – 25sec
Deploy a disc blade bot that slices through enemies in its charge playing bleeds.
Activate the bot to make it spin in place damaging and applying bleeds to enemies in range.
Toolbelt skill: Shredder – fire a disc that cuts through enemies in front of you applying bleeds.

Med Bot – 1/2sec – 25sec
Deploy a bot that applies regen to you.
Activate the bot to revive a downed ally.
Toolbelt skill: apply 10sec of regen to up to 5 allies.

Hologram Bot – 1/2sec – 30sec
Deploy a not that becomes a hologram of you taunting up to 3 foes for 3sec.
Activate the bot to Fear up to 3 foes for 2sec
Toolbelt skill: Phase out and grant distortion to yourself for 3sec.

Cannon Bot – 1/2sec 30sec
Deploy a bot that fires an explosive volley and applies vuln. Activate the bot to self destruct dealing damage and launching up to 5 foes.
Toolbelt skill: evade with an explosive dodge back and cripple enemies.

I haven’t bothered with damage but you can get the general idea. I envision them performing more like clones/phantasms than turrets/minions in that they pick a target ( either one you are targeting or the on you targeted when deploying the bot) and have it pursue that target until destroyed or returned.