Guild Wars 2

Can anyone tell me why Engineers can’t wield a hammer? I mean a hands on Guy like an Engineer who is not able to “swing the hammer” Thats like telling the Warrior nope Axes are not for you. An Engineer in my Oppinion is a Guy who builds stuff utilizing tools. A hammer is like the most used symbol for a tool ever. I just canÄt wrap my head around the fact that the Engineer is apparently too dumb to know who to swing a hammer. Can anyone tell me what I am missing here. Did the Devs post at any time why the Engineer can’t wield a hammer?

They’ve never said, as far as I’m aware. The only explanation I’ve ever been able to come up with is that we’re supposed to use Kits. Every single one of us. Regardless of preference for, say, other utility skills or specialization. As far as I can tell, we’re supposed to be perfectly fine having Pistol, Rifle and Shield being our only weapon choices because we’re supposed to all like using Kits.

I’m not a fan of this decision, as you can probably tell.

OMG this is such a great idea, i may read somewhere you might wanna ad more melee options to the engi? THIS would so nice, but do it funny, like engineer is.

Make jumps and stuff, not boring as others and a good dps would be great

Seriously, this will be awesome _ and it fits so much.

All I remember is them saying the were looking into adding more weapon options for those with a less variety of weapons, though that was posted some time ago. Anyways I would prefer greatswords, if only for the reason so I can use my chainsaw on engie

Yeah, they said something about looking into it. Maybe we should offer them a microscope. Or a set of binoculars, depending.

Anymras.5729:

They’ve never said, as far as I’m aware. The only explanation I’ve ever been able to come up with is that we’re supposed to use Kits. Every single one of us. Regardless of preference for, say, other utility skills or specialization. As far as I can tell, we’re supposed to be perfectly fine having Pistol, Rifle and Shield being our only weapon choices because we’re supposed to all like using Kits.

I’m not a fan of this decision, as you can probably tell.

i rolled an Ele but i dont like it because spells and attunements arent my thing.

i tried ranger, but i wish i didn’t ahve to have this pet with me all the time.

sure does suck having access to almost every weapon as a warrior, i’d rather have more signets and spells to cast.

i think my thief would be much better as well if i didn’t have to be stealthed all the time to pull off my combos, it’s just an added layer of uneccessary complexity!

etc

etc

nakoda.4213:

Anymras.5729:

They’ve never said, as far as I’m aware. The only explanation I’ve ever been able to come up with is that we’re supposed to use Kits. Every single one of us. Regardless of preference for, say, other utility skills or specialization. As far as I can tell, we’re supposed to be perfectly fine having Pistol, Rifle and Shield being our only weapon choices because we’re supposed to all like using Kits.

I’m not a fan of this decision, as you can probably tell.

i rolled an Ele but i dont like it because spells and attunements arent my thing.

i tried ranger, but i wish i didn’t ahve to have this pet with me all the time.

sure does suck having access to almost every weapon as a warrior, i’d rather have more signets and spells to cast.

i think my thief would be much better as well if i didn’t have to be stealthed all the time to pull off my combos, it’s just an added layer of uneccessary complexity!

etc

etc

You’re a kittenhat if you think that’s what I’m saying. Go familiarize yourself with the Toolbelt, which is our actual godkitten class mechanic, and work on your – I think that’s an attempt at an analogy?

Here, I’ll break down exactly how that doesn’t work for you, since you’re too much of a kitten to actually think about what you’re saying and need spoonfed.

1: i rolled an Ele but i dont like it because spells and attunements arent my thing.

Attunements are a Class Mechanic, and spells are an integral part of the class concept.

2: i tried ranger, but i wish i didn’t ahve to have this pet with me all the time.

Again, Class Mechanic (Pets, this time).

3: sure does suck having access to almost every weapon as a warrior, i’d rather have more signets and spells to cast.

Integral part of class concept (the weapon choices and lack of spells. Not so much Signets, though they sure do have plenty of those).

4: i think my thief would be much better as well if i didn’t have to be stealthed all the time to pull off my combos, it’s just an added layer of uneccessary complexity!

Both Class Mechanic and integral part of class concept.

Kits: Neither Class Mechanic nor integral part of class concept (or at the very least not as integral as a wizard using spells or a warrior knowing their way around most non-magical weapons). The Engineer is, essentially, ‘Mad Scientist,’ which can include Kits…but not necessarily, whereas you will not find a wizard who can’t cast spells, a warrior who can’t swing a sword, or a thief who can’t hide in shadows.

If this is too difficult for you to comprehend, notice that Kits are optional, whereas the spells, large amount of weapon choice, pets and ability to go into stealth mode are not, even from a gameplay perspective.

Am I being rude? Probably. In fact, almost definitely. I’m just sick of kittenes like you making out like Kits are supposed to make up for our lack of non-Kit weapon choice, like every single Engineer should be using Kits, regardless of what they might actually like using.

Well the Engi got a lot of stuff (Kits) and can change them without a cd (almost)
I playing a Crit SD engi and in pve using mostly; Riffle Turret/Toolkit/Bombkit
i have a huge amount of different skills which i can do a huge dmg and protection through blindness and aoe roots etc.

Engi is great and dont rly need(!) another weapon im almost always at melee range though the use of rifle 2 and 5, bombs etc.
But the hammer could be really fun and simply beautiful to play with.

But I can deal with large mob grps much better than with every class i played a lot (Thief, Mes, Warr, Ranger, Ele ) so Engis are very good and usefull if you USE WHAT YOU GOT !!!!!!

Ram Banson.4081:

Well the Engi got a lot of stuff (Kits) and can change them without a cd (almost)
I playing a Crit SD engi and in pve using mostly; Riffle Turret/Toolkit/Bombkit
i have a huge amount of different skills which i can do a huge dmg and protection through blindness and aoe roots etc.

Engi is great and dont rly need(!) another weapon im almost always at melee range though the use of rifle 2 and 5, bombs etc.
But the hammer could be really fun and simply beautiful to play with.

But I can deal with large mob grps much better than with every class i played a lot (Thief, Mes, Warr, Ranger, Ele ) so Engis are very good and usefull if you USE WHAT YOU GOT !!!!!!

On the one hand, it’s great that you like kits so much.

On the other, what about Engineers who don’t like kits to begin with? Personally, I’m currently running Healing Turret/Flame Turret/Throw Mine/Rocket Boots – am I not ‘using what I got?’ I’d say I am, (though it’s a bit less like speed piano) and I just have fewer weapon choices because a particular set of utility skills so much as exists for the class, and would kind of like to have more than four whole choices of non-kit weapon set (or one, in the water).

you are making the mistake of thinking that your utility slots signify the base mechanic of the engineer.

they aren’t, it is the toolbelt skills. (and i am not going to debate whether toobelt skills are effective or not, that is a different issue).

toolbelt skills mitigate the consumption of a utility slot by your kits, gadgets, turrets etc.

your play as an engineer, thusly, is to ensure that the combination of utility skills (kits, gadgets, turrets, whatever) with their respective toolbelt skills will provide you with the tools you need in order to succeed.

since, in the current state of things, this generally means taking one kit and supporting it with other skills we can safely say that equipping a kit could be as essential to the engineer as attunements, stealth, clones, weapons, pets, etc are to other classes.

that being said, there are several non-kit builds out there, Condi-HGH and Static Discharge among them. those builds maximize the synergy between toolbelt skills, utility slots, and trait choices ….. just like a kit engineer ….

so what about those engies who don’t like kits?

Why, thank you, kind sir, for pointing out that certain similarities are shared between all builds. Nobody would ever have known that otherwise. Really. (No, not really, this was sarcasm.)

Engineers who don’t use Kits, of course, have all of four land and one water weapon set choices, period. This is nothing to do with toolbelts or utility slots – this is a simple lack of weapon choice despite the presence of perfectly valid, fitting weapons in the game. For some Engineers to use Kits, all Engineers get limited weapon choices.

It would be, frankly, quite unreasonable to demand a skilltype be removed – not to mention counterproductive and hypocritical, due to stripping more choices away – so why not simply suggest that all Engineers get access to more non-Kit weapon choices?

Anymras.5729:

For some Engineers to use Kits, all Engineers get limited weapon choices.

because for all engineers, swapping kits is a no-CD action.

i’ve commented on this in other threads as well.

i think that our turrets and gadgets ought to be kits of their own, so that you can swap to a “control panel” of skills, like the Predator activating his wrist console to blow himself up.

gadgets could add passive effects in their slots, as well.

get to the choppah!

example:

swap to flame turret

1) target acquisition
2) vent heat (aoe burn)
3) smoke vent (combo field)
4) overcharge
5) deploy/stow
F#) detonate

or

swap to battering ram (passive 15% dmg increase to siege weapons, gates, and walls)

1) fire! (current skill activate)
2) head butt! (a knockdown instead of knockback)
3) boxing glove! (cushion the blow to confuse or daze your enemy, interrupt)
4) pogo stick (use battering ram like an FPS rocket jump)
5) Dr strangelove (jump on battering ram after firing and ride it for a short distance)
F#) +50% dmg to siege weapons, gates, and walls for 10 seconds

so many other ways to add utility using the engineer’s defining mechanic of kit swapping

those are just two examples.

sorry, but that is a horrid idea.

If I want two, or gods forbid 4 turrets in a build, would you really expect me to have to swap between each one to command each of them to change target or even fire their basic attack? They would have to be buffed to absurd levels to even remotely be on par with non-turret damage (just one turret would have to do as much damage by itself under your system as a Grenadier speced engie).

It sounds bad for a single turret, and outright horrible for more than that.

For all Engineer who use kits. Does it matter to an Engineer who doesn’t that Kits have no cooldown on swapping?

What does Kit swapping lacking a cooldown even have to do with anything, for that matter? Wasn’t this thread about ‘Why don’t Engineers get hammers’ five minutes ago?

Imperatora.7654:

(just one turret would have to do as much damage by itself under your system as a Grenadier speced engie).

and how do you compute that?

the idea is to add ancillary abilities to the tools we have, not make them weapons themselves.

i think you misunderstood what i am proposing.

have turret on bar, swap to turret, drop it, turret operates as normal.
oh snap, turret firing on wrong target, swap to control panel, correct issue.
oh snap, ally near my turret is in trouble, swap to turret drop a smoke field so they can get away.

have gadget on bar, receive passive effect
(thus, from the example above…)

foe gets too close, swap, activate #1 -> knockback or #2 -> knockdown
foe is channeling something!, swap, activate #3 -> interrupt
foe is running! swap, activate 5 -> gap closer
oh snap, in trouble! swap, activate #4 -> jump up to nearby ledge.

just an example.

regardless, you dont have to agree, because it is just an idea anyway.

Anymras.5729:

For all Engineer who use kits. Does it matter to an Engineer who doesn’t that Kits have no cooldown on swapping?

What does Kit swapping lacking a cooldown even have to do with anything, for that matter? Wasn’t this thread about ‘Why don’t Engineers get hammers’ five minutes ago?

for those playing the home game, the connection between kit swapping cooldowns and the lack of hammers is that the engineer is supposed to frequently cycle through myriad abilities that control and disrupt its opponents.

anet clearly does not want the engineer to be a static warrior with a couple weapons and three utilities. they WANT you to be using kits. you are REWARDED for using kits.

NOT using kits is, in effect, a self nerf. You are nerfing yourself and limiting the potential versatility of the class by purposefully denying yourself the core mechanic of the class. the toolbelt skills are specifically designed to compensate for the loss of a utility slot when equipping kits.

why do you think all the non-kit toolbelt utilities seem clunky and thrown together? because anet had to lessen their effects since the toolbelt slot they occupy is mirrored by a “proper” utility, whereas the toobelt skill occupied by a matching kit utility tends to be more effective/useful because you give up a utility slot.

while there are several effective builds that function very well without kits, those builds are very strict and specific in their operation and trait allocation because they give up a certain amount of versatility in order to maximize the effects of their weapon slots.

and yet, they do this through the toolbelt…. HGH relies on being able to drop elixirs at your feet, and SD relies upon the short cooldowns of certain toolbelt skills to maximize efficiency.

once again, or i should say, as intended, the engineer gameplay is centered around the intelligent allocation of utilities and toolbelt skills to maximize the efficiency of any given build.

so why say no to a hammer?

because anet also clearly wants the engineer to maintain a cerain amount of range on its opponents. look at all of our skills. watch videos of talented engineers….

maska, ostrich, amadeus, teldoo, and others all keep a varied range because the skills they choose are designed to keep foes at a safe distance while dealing with them.

our ONE melee kit, the toolkit’s wrench, is also a “ranged” weapon because its function is built around the magnet pull/confusion combo. Pull! Whack! get distance, watch confusion tick while applying dots/dmg. CC get away, PULL! whack! rinse repeat.

the entire framework of the class is built around avoiding direct combat.

a hammer would contradict that vision by actively seeking it out.

frankly, if you want to actively seek out direct melee combat, roll a melee class.

edit: engie is the micromanagement class. learn to micromanage.

edit 2: in my opinion, saying “i dont like kits” is the same as saying “i dont like the engineer”. again … that is my opinion.

Engineers are physically weak, thats why we went from heavy to med armor, shoot rifles like whimps and get knock back by our own skills!

a 1-handed mace might make more sense, altho hammer would be cool, or why not both ?

I disagree with several things, but at this point it’s mostly a matter of opinion.

1: Kits aren’t the core mechanic of the class. As far as I can tell, we don’t even have one, except possibly the toolbelt. They’re an overfavored (in my opinion) utility skill set.

2: There are plenty of interesting ways an Engineer could use a Hammer outside of bashing some berk’s brains in (in melee combat) – erecting a palisade (I think that’s what it’s called? The line of sharpened stakes), for example, or perhaps a boomerang-type rocket hammer attack. Or both.

3: That’s no excuse for toolbelt skills to be haphazard. “These were only to take care of [aspect of class], if they’re not using [aspect of class] it doesn’t matter how well-thought-out these are.” Congratulations, you just made Anet out to have absolutely no idea what they’re doing in the process of trying to make a set of utility skills seem more important than they should be (and if you’re right, then they really do have absolutely no idea what they’re doing).

You can have your opinion; it’s an opinion, so even if I think it’s a stupid one, it’s perfectly valid. Still need to work on your comparisons, though (in my opinion). Doesn’t mean mine is any less valid.

I want a kit that changes from a melee/range weap. Kinda like Jayce in LoL.

penatbater.4710:

I want a kit that changes from a melee/range weap. Kinda like Jayce in LoL.

If they did that, they’d probably consider it as giving us weapon swap. Going by the rules applied to every other profession when it comes to swapping weapons…there’d be a cooldown implemented. And then bricks would be katten, far and wide, across the boards.

Edit because it didn’t censor what I wrote, as it was a slightly modified curse word. Whoops.

The hammer topic (really a melee set discussion) comes up quite often and while I am not against any of the usual proposals I’m partial to the idea of something Engineer specific as they are so different from the other professions in almost every aspect.

Power Gloves

Electro Punch (Discharge based melee) – Rocket Punch (gap closer) – Thunder Clap (AoE daze) – Thumbs Up! (buff) – Ground n’ Pound (AoE burn/cripple)

Nothing wrong with hammers or maces I just like the flavor of a ‘contraption’ if we are talking melee sets.

I really wouldn’t mind seeing my Asura with a huge set of electrified gauntlets flipping around the field of battle pounding a zerg into pulp but maybe that is just me.

The only issue with those is that they’d require a whole new weapon type to be added, and it’d be a little silly to only have one class be able to use them, just as it’s silly for a class to have no more than three choices of weapon.

If they did go with Power Gloves, though, other classes that could qualify just fine for a faux-‘unarmed’ combat style are, off the top of my head: Warrior, Elementalist, Mesmer and Thief. Warrior’s Rampage already does something similar, Elementalist could make like Avatar ’benders, Thieves could be ninjutsu-themed, and I have no idea what Mesmers could do with it, but they get some weird bloody weapon choices.

It could be interesting to have Power Gloves, though, especially if they’re not a two-handed weapon (like the Rifle) and instead act as a pair of one-handed weapons (like the pistols), if only for extra weapon combination choices.

So what is best suited for an Engi? A huge Paladin Weapon or a mace? The actual hammer is 2 Handed… But there are hammer skins for maces! This means 3 skills in stead of 5.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gallery_of_maces

It would be the first class to use Mace + Pistol. A very interesting combination if the two weapons complete each other.

Mace and Pistol would be pretty great (I sure spend enough time in near-or-full melee Blowtorching, Rocket Kicking and Minefielding to have a use for the mace).

Both could, however, be made arguments for – Maces have skins for one-handed hammers and wrenches (and could function as a hammer in a pinch to begin with), while the two-handed hammer is easily and obviously comparable to a sledgehammer or maul, and that’s just the beginning. I had a post somewhere that had a slightly more thorough reasoning for the mace being an engineer weapon, come to think of it. And the Torch, too.

Honestly, with the world bosses being all about ranged spam i would love to see a targeted ranged kit that could match traited grenades in DPS. Throwing those spicy pineapples gets boring after a while.

As for the melee happy rest of PVE i have bombs (AOE spam baby!) and pistols (blowtorch and dart volley are both best used in melee).

Aaand there’s the “Just use kits.” Some people don’t like kits, but everybody else just tells people who don’t like kits that either they don’t like the Engineer or goes “Use kits, you’re gimping yourself.”

(wouldn’t be so bloody annoying if they weren’t more’n half-right. godkitten overfavored…)

I just want to add to the debate by reminding everyone that the question of “how well put together” many of our skills are (ie: broken traits, mundane toolbelt skills) is a different concern from the functioning mechanicisms of the class, which is, like it or not, kit swapping and toolbelt skills. these are the mechanistic characteristics that define the engineers play and differentiate us from other professions.

JubeiTM.5763:

So what is best suited for an Engi? A huge Paladin Weapon or a mace? The actual hammer is 2 Handed… But there are hammer skins for maces! This means 3 skills in stead of 5.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gallery_of_maces

It would be the first class to use Mace + Pistol. A very interesting combination if the two weapons complete each other.

This.

I’m not against adding more weapon types for engies – but the GW2 hammers are two-handed tools for demolition, not precision tools an engi would use to build a machine. Lore-wise, maces would be (a little) more suitable.

I have to say that I don’t feel that more wepaon types are required – the kits totally count as weapon types to me, and the fact that we can swap them without CD is a nice bonus. And no, of course you don’t have to use kits. Just like guardians don’t have to use scepters and elementalists don’t have to use earth attunement skills. That’s really anybody’s personal choice. (I played pistol/pistol without kits all the way to level 80.)

That being said, if hammers or maces were added, I’d be fine with either. But my favourite remains the whip.

I would like the hammer to become part of a engineer’s arsenal, though I’d take the mace instead… and/or maybe the torch . Combat style I think I’d like the hammer to either work a medium ranged weapon with rocket type attacks, or as a true melee weapon that focuses on the engineer getting into melee, using an attack combo, then disengaging.

In anycase we could do with a purely direct damage weapon other than the rifle (primarily control) and pistol (conditions). That an my asuran engineer would look awesome running into combat with a hammer resting across his shoulders >.>

Engineer, like necro, is not a direct dmg class. we are a condition/control class.

… Unless the hammer is one-handed, no thanks. I got my wrench, my crowbar, and a giant cog shield. . . Forgot my magnet. I’m a happy man.

The Warrior and Guardian Hammer skillsets actually have a lot of control aspects to begin with – Guardian Hammer has a line-cast Immobilize (Immobilizes all enemies in a line), a single-target Launch, and the Ring of Warding traps enemies/holds them back for a short time. Warrior Hammer has an AoE Cripple, an AoE Knockback, and a single-target Knockdown. That’s three control skills each (unless I’ve missed the bus on what counts as control).

Possible skillset for an Engineer Hammer with that in mind (I’m not going into durations of things or cooldowns, just possible skills that preserve it as a close-combat control weapon while still working in conditions):
1: Build And Break – Chain skill; first attack grants a stack of Might, second grants a stack of Fury, last attack inflicts Vulnerability.
2: Rocket Slam – Bring the Hammer down, rocket-assisted. Melee AoE, inflicts Burning
3: Elixir Strike – Throw an Elixir bottle into the air before sending it flying with your hammer. Inflicts Poison and Cripple to all foes in a line.
4: Either: Drop a net capsule and smakitten with the hammer to damage and Immobilize enemies around you, OR throw it in front of you, smashing it with a sidelong swing to damage the nearest enemies while immobilizing enemies in a cone AoE. Not sure which I like better, so pick one.
5: Build That Wall – Bring up a ground-cast wall similar to Ring of Warding (can’t be passed through by enemies).

1. Add more weapons to the list of 3 that Engineers can use. (Hammers, etc.)
2. Add the ability for Engineers to have “Weapon Swap” like other professions.
3. Add the caveat that when an Engineer has a “Kit” in one of his/her utility slots they lose the ability “Weapon Swap”.

TADA!

Hammer is too much like toolkit for my taste, I’ll take a chainsaw however.

nakoda.4213:

I just want to add to the debate by reminding everyone that the question of “how well put together” many of our skills are (ie: broken traits, mundane toolbelt skills) is a different concern from the functioning mechanicisms of the class, which is, like it or not, kit swapping and toolbelt skills. these are the mechanistic characteristics that define the engineers play and differentiate us from other professions.

That is one aspect. Another is that many uses of skills and traits that are very valid in SPVP are worthless in PVE because mob are protected in various ways.

digiowl.9620:

nakoda.4213:

I just want to add to the debate by reminding everyone that the question of “how well put together” many of our skills are (ie: broken traits, mundane toolbelt skills) is a different concern from the functioning mechanicisms of the class, which is, like it or not, kit swapping and toolbelt skills. these are the mechanistic characteristics that define the engineers play and differentiate us from other professions.

That is one aspect. Another is that many uses of skills and traits that are very valid in SPVP are worthless in PVE because mob are protected in various ways.

such as what?

The problem lies in absurd choices made when the class was designed. Our main weapons are nerfed due to the existence of kits.
(https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/999247)
Thus we’re basically being nerfed for a choice we can make. And it doesn’t make sense. The kits already have a cost, the utility slot (and despite some what may say, the toolbelt slot isn’t comparable at all at an utility skill – area buffs have got small radius and often they must be AoE targeted, making them very unpractical; other skills have simply got poor effects, save for a few exceptions).

nakoda.4213:

such as what?

Control effects and defiant stacks, for example.

nakoda.4213:

digiowl.9620:

nakoda.4213:

I just want to add to the debate by reminding everyone that the question of “how well put together” many of our skills are (ie: broken traits, mundane toolbelt skills) is a different concern from the functioning mechanicisms of the class, which is, like it or not, kit swapping and toolbelt skills. these are the mechanistic characteristics that define the engineers play and differentiate us from other professions.

That is one aspect. Another is that many uses of skills and traits that are very valid in SPVP are worthless in PVE because mob are protected in various ways.

such as what?

Can’t knock mobs off edges, while they can do so to us and we can do it to each other in PVP. This reduces the utility of knockback/launch in PVE in my view.

Also the larger health pools on late game mobs makes control+burst pointless (outside of blind spam, the condition equivalent of aegis spam really) as you can’t really drop one or more that way.

Never mind the abomination that is Defiant.

If they added Hammer, they should put a limitation on it, having Hammer, Pistol/Pistol, AND a kit would be overkill IMO. There needs to be a limit. Like you can run your Pistol/Pistol and a Hammer, with no kits, or run your 1 weapon set, with kits.

digiowl.9620:

nakoda.4213:

digiowl.9620:

nakoda.4213:

I just want to add to the debate by reminding everyone that the question of “how well put together” many of our skills are (ie: broken traits, mundane toolbelt skills) is a different concern from the functioning mechanicisms of the class, which is, like it or not, kit swapping and toolbelt skills. these are the mechanistic characteristics that define the engineers play and differentiate us from other professions.

That is one aspect. Another is that many uses of skills and traits that are very valid in SPVP are worthless in PVE because mob are protected in various ways.

such as what?

Can’t knock mobs off edges, while they can do so to us and we can do it to each other in PVP. This reduces the utility of knockback/launch in PVE in my view.

Also the larger health pools on late game mobs makes control+burst pointless (outside of blind spam, the condition equivalent of aegis spam really) as you can’t really drop one or more that way.

Never mind the abomination that is Defiant.

you cast knock mobs off of edges so that you don’t have to chase your loot. you can fall of edges more as getaway utility if needed than any boon to your foes.

large hitpoint pools compensate for mobs inability to cleanse, and operate as a simple way to contribute to difficulty increases as you and mobs scale in level, especially since your level fluctuates depending on zone.

defiant (and agony) are both stop gap measures (kind of like retaliation was in wow) which effects EVERYONE IN THE GAME and not just engineers.

galandor.1059:

If they added Hammer, they should put a limitation on it, having Hammer, Pistol/Pistol, AND a kit would be overkill IMO. There needs to be a limit. Like you can run your Pistol/Pistol and a Hammer, with no kits, or run your 1 weapon set, with kits.

They could just, I dunno, not give us weapon swap (or, if they decide to give us Weapon Swap, have one of the slots have to be filled with a Kit, since they love the kitten things so much). Be a lot less complicated that way.

Why not just make the tool kit a two hander for more dps same abilities just replace the box of nails with a launch gap closer and give us repeater crossbows as a new weapon engies and thiefs can make use of it

Only hammer available are 2H … I don;t know any engineers that carry one of those.

As a engineer I find it aptly acceptable to road kill other classes with custom built vehicles.

Strictly delegating the engineer to ranged combat is a very, VERY big mistake in my opinion. Considering how every other class has the option to switch between ranged and melee at will, it troubles me that the engineer doesn’t receive a true melee weapon until the Tool Kit is unlocked. Even then, the engineer has a number of up-close-and-personal options, and some ranged abilities benefit from being closer rather than farther away.

The hammer would be a welcome addition to the engineer’s arsenal, in my opinion. It fits thematically and I can easily see a number of engineer-related abilities being granted to it.

StSwfx.3754:

Hammer is too much like toolkit for my taste, I’ll take a chainsaw however.

+1,000,000 to Chainsaw. It’d have to be a kit, but whatever.

Manuhell.2759:

The problem lies in absurd choices made when the class was designed. Our main weapons are nerfed due to the existence of kits.
(https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/999247)
Thus we’re basically being nerfed for a choice we can make. And it doesn’t make sense. The kits already have a cost, the utility slot (and despite some what may say, the toolbelt slot isn’t comparable at all at an utility skill – area buffs have got small radius and often they must be AoE targeted, making them very unpractical; other skills have simply got poor effects, save for a few exceptions).

nakoda.4213:

such as what?

Control effects and defiant stacks, for example.

Funny thing about those notes, a couple points can easily be summarized as so;
Engineer; can do a lot, but limited to medium range and low damage to compensate for their versatility.
Elementalist; awesome at everything, with the only weakness being a high skill cap to play.
…Insofar as it becomes difficult to manage all those skills, when you have nearly twice as many as everyone else in a game where the only limitation on skill usage is individual cooldowns <_<
That’s like having the “problem” of too many attractive women trying to hit on you at once.

I wouldn’t mind a melee weapon option for Engineers, even if it is the two-handed hammer. I tried using the tool kit as a melee option, but the #1 skill sucks pretty bad. The bomb kit can be pretty cool, but it takes forever and enemies just run out of range. Mostly I just throw grenades point blank for my “melee” damage.

I think the big thing people are overlooking is that, if engineers had a dedicated melee weapon, they still wouldn’t be kitten. With the elixir gun, flamethrower, and grenade kit engineers have plenty of ranged options to go with. By adding the melee weapons, we open a lot of new specs for the engineer, who can use kits for maintaining ranged offense instead of kits for melee damage.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

With the elixir gun, flamethrower, and grenade kit engineers have plenty of ranged options to go with. By adding the melee weapons, we open a lot of new specs for the engineer, who can use kits for maintaining ranged offense instead of kits for melee damage.

A thousand times this.

Build diversity potential + options for the win!

Frightlight.3796:

Why not just make the tool kit a two hander for more dps same abilities just replace the box of nails with a launch gap closer and give us repeater crossbows as a new weapon engies and thiefs can make use of it

We already have a gap closer in the Toolkit.

Also, no. Box of Nails is a good escape skill in itself if you run permaswift.