Guild Wars 2

Wow really, seriously the engineer has the worst down state out of all the professions. Arena net needs to buff engineers downstate or add new skills. I die almost every time i am about to do the number 3 skill “The Big Bomb”. A number one skill should be throw little nades that cripple for 1 second or something like that. number 3 skill should blind enemies. If you have any good ideas let me know. we need to push this to arena net so they can see this. “What A Joke Of a Down State”

What I find particularly galling is that the cooldown on #3 is juuuuuuuuuuuust long enough for us to miss using it by 1 second even if we time our #2 PERFECTLY. I don’t use any of my downed skills unless I can use #2 to pull an enemy out of a stomp or a rez. Any attempt to survive on my own would be allowing myself to be trolled by the devs. Also, Grapple Line misses more often than not even when I have my target selected and right next to me, and I’ve even seen the Booby Trap miss or fail against targets that don’t have aegis, stability, or distortion.

I manage to win down state fights with my engineer. It really isn’t that bad at all. It was bad in beta when skill 1 did next to nothing in damage, 3 did next to nothing in damage and dropped your hp by a considerable amount. Couldn’t rally off of anything in pve with it, didn’t do too much in pvp with it. Warrior is worse off as they need to either be lucky or trait for vengeance to be really useful.

Ya, our downed are the worst :/

I love that our #2 actually helps people to get to us for stomp and if you use it to interrupt stomp it misses a good deal of the time and even when it works #2 or #3 won’t come back up in time to interrupt again, so it (very slightly) delays the inevitable…

Our #3 makes me yell at the screen :/ It NEVER has enough time and I cry a little when on my Guardian and do the exact same thing with no delay….

Numot.3965:

I manage to win down state fights with my engineer. It really isn’t that bad at all. It was bad in beta when skill 1 did next to nothing in damage, 3 did next to nothing in damage and dropped your hp by a considerable amount. Couldn’t rally off of anything in pve with it, didn’t do too much in pvp with it. Warrior is worse off as they need to either be lucky or trait for vengeance to be really useful.

Warriors vengeance still beats our booby trap. Ive had a few fights were me and a warrior both go down, but they always win thanks to being able to stomp me.

I found booby trap to be pretty useless no matter what others say. In pve I use it..boom! and..10% damage done, 20 if I’m lucky. But by then my health is so low I die either way. In pvp, if theres any chance I am able to use it, same situation.

Perhaps the #2 should involve dropping mines (or some other gadget) and #3 be a temporary healing turret.

After thinking about it, I feel like our downed state is meant to be a “support” downed state. The chills and weakness on the 1 skill doesn’t pump out damage that could help us rally, but it is probably annoying to enemies fighting against teammates. The pull is basically sacrificing yourself to get someone off of your buddy. As for our 3 skill, well, engineers explode stuff, so it’s only fitting.

That said, I still think it’s a silly concept since being able to prolong your own death is of much more benefit to your team, but whatever. That’s my two cents.

the cooldown on 3 is too long meaning you simply never get to use it

I think the skills are allright just the cooldowns suck

I fought a Guardian, Thief, Mesmer, and Warrior and I happened to get double-downed with each of them, through various scenarios.

These were probably the most embarrassing moments of my life, helplessly throwing junk with a ‘2’ that doesn’t work while the Guardian regens, the Mesmer throws a phantasm on my face, Thief stealths and gains some precious self-rez time.

Grackleflint.4956:

What I find particularly galling is that the cooldown on #3 is juuuuuuuuuuuust long enough for us to miss using it by 1 second even if we time our #2 PERFECTLY. I don’t use any of my downed skills unless I can use #2 to pull an enemy out of a stomp or a rez. Any attempt to survive on my own would be allowing myself to be trolled by the devs. Also, Grapple Line misses more often than not even when I have my target selected and right next to me, and I’ve even seen the Booby Trap miss or fail against targets that don’t have aegis, stability, or distortion.

bomber.1540:

the cooldown on 3 is too long meaning you simply never get to use it

I think the skills are allright just the cooldowns suck

The cooldowns are the same for all professions. It’s designed that way—if you’re downed in a 1v1, you’re not supposed to get time to use your #3.

MrForz.1953:

I fought a Guardian, Thief, Mesmer, and Warrior and I happened to get downed with them at the same time.

These were probably the most embarrassing moments of my life.

I’ve been in all these situations. Warrior: sorry, nothing you can do. Thief: you can probably win this as you have higher base health. Use your #4 as soon as the thief goes invisible. If you’re downed close to the thief, use your #3 as soon as you can—it actually does great damage. Mesmer: probably nothing you can do, since he’ll probably have a phantasm out. Guardian: the only way to win this is to be close enough to him to use your #3 as soon as he uses his.

Worst downed abilities by far. not only are the cool downs too long #2 decides when it wants to knockdown, and the animation normally is too long for a target switch-interrupt. As someone else mentioned if the stars align and #2 interrupts, #3 cool down is just long enough to not be able to get off

^ Yeah, the animation casting time on each of the skills are also some of the longest in the game. Engi downstate basically means you’re dead. The best option is to run elixir r as much as possible

Our Downed 2 would be perfect, if I could use it on allies to pull myself to them as well.

Well, not perfect, because I’m kitten sure I’d miss them all the time. Maybe just a hook that pulls us to wherever we want to go.

I’d also love for Self-Regulated Defenses to act as a drop Elixir R on downed rather than Elixir S on 25% But that’s NEVER gonna happen.

NevirSayDie.6235:

I’ve been in all these situations. Warrior: sorry, nothing you can do. Thief: you can probably win this as you have higher base health. Use your #4 as soon as the thief goes invisible. If you’re downed close to the thief, use your #3 as soon as you can—it actually does great damage. Mesmer: probably nothing you can do, since he’ll probably have a phantasm out. Guardian: the only way to win this is to be close enough to him to use your #3 as soon as he uses his.

I know, I know all of that. Unfortunately that uncovers one side of what downed abilities can do; fighting back, and it’s not even good at all, if we move toward the other side, such as extending the lifespan or escaping…… That’s not looking pretty either.

I only have a problem with our #2 skill. It’s a projectile based single target interrupt, which means the effectiveness of it is removed with stability/stealth/blind/invuln/aegis AND projectile blocks/body blocking (ranger pets, necro minions, clones, etc.). Only warriors are in the same situation as we are. Meanwhile, thieves, mesmers, and eles get a guarunteed stomp delayer, rangers and guards get an aoe interrupt WITH a faster cast time, and while necros have a fairly poor 2, at least it isn’t a projectile.

tldr: Our 2 skill has the longest cast time, easiest to avoid, and only affects a single target. I have no idea how that could be considered balanced.

Tbh I don’t mind our downed as we’re the only class that can self res if we throw the elixir R as we’re going down :p I have trolled so many in spvp with it.

Elixir R wastes alot possible power taking one skill slot. Our downed is in beta phase as is rangers. Anet somehow forgot this?

ionic.2106:

I die almost every time i am about to do the number 3 skill “The Big Bomb”.

I thought that was only me dieing just about to hit nr 3)
If the recharge would be just 1-2 seconds faster I would have died much less.

What I find horrifying is the fact that the 2nd skill actually pulls enemies to us.

Thanks ANet, I can’t wait to die, yeah. Now I can save them time to directly stomp me instead of walking for 1 second and stomp me

Its not that bad. #2 das not help us, but it helps in a team fight from time to time. #3 is fine.

Lupanic.6502:

Its not that bad. #2 das not help us, but it helps in a team fight from time to time. #3 is fine.

That’s true so once again we get sacrificed

Our downed skills are bad.

1. is too weak. #2 is hopeless (unreliable single target interrupter and gap closer for enemies). #3 is too slow.

No reliable counter to enemies. No way to avoid damage. No way to lose agro.
- They’re kitten.

ikiturso.4026:

Elixir R wastes alot possible power taking one skill slot. Our downed is in beta phase as is rangers. Anet somehow forgot this?

As opposed to what other stunbreaker? it’s not bad to carry at all.

Also keep in mind our damage while downed is just a joke. Ranging from 2-3x less then other professions.

If you get downed at the same time as an enemy of another profession he doesnt have to do anything but just spam attack you. He will always beat you on sheer damage output alone.

And ofcourse our interupt is the weakest ingame. It can be countered by Blind, Stability, LoS, Stealth and even with certain positioning from which cannot be pulled and its only a Single-target interupt. (Warriors got equal shaft on their primairy interupt)

Neare.9703:

ikiturso.4026:

Elixir R wastes alot possible power taking one skill slot. Our downed is in beta phase as is rangers. Anet somehow forgot this?

As opposed to what other stunbreaker? it’s not bad to carry at all.

Having to carry a specific utility skill is NOT an acceptable answer for a kitten downstate.
I already need to use a utility for making up for the lack of a weaponswap, now i also need to use a utility for the lack of a proper downed state!?

Why does blind affect our explosion? Stability… sure… but blind?

And charge that thing faster, that delay is ridiculous. I either have to yoink the stomper (if there is only 1) out of the air with the #2 skill, and HOPE my blast charges while they are thinking about their next move, or watch them DPS me down WELL before it charges.

>.<

bomber.1540:

the cooldown on 3 is too long meaning you simply never get to use it

I think the skills are allright just the cooldowns suck

I agree with that !
The skills are great but the explosion cd is toolong to keep ennemies aways from us !

I really just hate our number two. Was thinking in its place a Overcharged Shot type skill would be better. Think our number three would need a nerf though. Maybe it could be a elixer toss that grants a large area a couple of random buffs.

Another aspect of our 3 skill is that it might be able to knock enemies back but most pve bosses have defiant up 90% of the time so the just kind of laugh when you use it then they kill you

Wtf are people talking about. EVERY classes downed cooldowns are timed so that you can interupt once, and then if the enemy spends a few extra seconds before the second stomp you can use #3 for extra interupt (if you have it). Thats the kitten design for it.

All downed interupts can be blinded, just as they are supposed to, not only engineers.
And in condition builds engi actually pushes out very good damage in downed vs downed.

And in burst builds 3 crits quite kitten loads, just like all classes when they spec glass.
Engi downed skills are great.

I do more damage then flamethrower in down state…. but idk if that is saying much lol.

Sabull.5670:

All downed interupts can be blinded, just as they are supposed to, not only engineers.

Really? How does a blind effect Vapor Form(ele), Shadow Escape(thief), and Deception(mesmer)?

Sabull.5670:

And in condition builds engi actually pushes out very good damage in downed vs downed.

Isn’t it a random condition though?

We will never win a down vs down fight unless its starts with us having a huge advantage. An elementalist will mist form out of range and self rez, a thief will teleport and or stealth away from us, ranger will self heal with pet, guardian will heal, necros can fear downed ppl and life steal, mesmer will win with sheer damage and clones and warrior will vengeance stomp us. Our downed state is strictly a teamfight one and even then #3 is good for that.

Sabull.5670:

Wtf are people talking about. EVERY classes downed cooldowns are timed so that you can interupt once, and then if the enemy spends a few extra seconds before the second stomp you can use #3 for extra interupt (if you have it). Thats the kitten design for it.

All downed interupts can be blinded, just as they are supposed to, not only engineers.
And in condition builds engi actually pushes out very good damage in downed vs downed.

And in burst builds 3 crits quite kitten loads, just like all classes when they spec glass.
Engi downed skills are great.

I think you are playing a different game, check the browser because im sure you’re lost. You make a bunch of different statement and each and everyone of them is wrong. Blatantly, undisputeably, imperically proven, wrong.

Sabull.5670:

Wtf are people talking about. EVERY classes downed cooldowns are timed so that you can interupt once, and then if the enemy spends a few extra seconds before the second stomp you can use #3 for extra interupt (if you have it). Thats the kitten design for it.

All downed interupts can be blinded, just as they are supposed to, not only engineers.
And in condition builds engi actually pushes out very good damage in downed vs downed.

And in burst builds 3 crits quite kitten loads, just like all classes when they spec glass.
Engi downed skills are great.

There’s so much bull kitten in this post I don’t even know where to start. Honestly, you seriously may just be trolling, so I think I’m just gonna leave it at that and not take the bait.

My biggest problem with our downed state is our auto attack. RNG downed fights are the worst. The game mocks me and gives a billion kittening chills when we all know they aren’t doing jack kitten to the other guy throwing his rocks

This has been brought up since beta with the suggestion that downed skills 2 and 3 for the engineer be switched. This has yet to happen, but at least we’re in a better shape than necromancers are for down state at the moment (really low downed health). While the engineer downstate is admittedly inconsistent it really is not that bad provided we get lucky with bleeds.

Obviously you cannot blind a teleport or mistform… But interupts you can…
And I’m not talking about nuking each other downed1v1. I’m talking about how good are the downed interupts and skills.

I repeat, I do not talk about downed nuking another downed 1v1.

Terrahero.9358:

Sabull.5670:

Wtf are people talking about. EVERY classes downed cooldowns are timed so that you can interupt once, and then if the enemy spends a few extra seconds before the second stomp you can use #3 for extra interupt (if you have it). Thats the kitten design for it.

All downed interupts can be blinded, just as they are supposed to, not only engineers.
And in condition builds engi actually pushes out very good damage in downed vs downed.

And in burst builds 3 crits quite kitten loads, just like all classes when they spec glass.
Engi downed skills are great.

I think you are playing a different game, check the browser because im sure you’re lost. You make a bunch of different statement and each and everyone of them is wrong. Blatantly, undisputeably, imperically proven, wrong.

Just making up a random statement where you declare how wrong you think I am doesn’t tell anything.
What I’m saying is that “engineer down state is pathetic” is quite a understatement (overstatement?). The disparity between downed skills is not that massive as this topic implies when you actually look at the cooldowns and what they do. Elementalist obviously has big advantage getting inside keeps in wvw or to a safe spot in spvp. But they lack the second interupt, only having immobilise on 3 (does great damage with condition setup).

So based on your post YOU say (that all my statements are untrue)
1. All, or there are classes that can chain #2 and #3 for double interupt even when enemy goes for the stomp right away.
Which we know is untrue.
All 8/8 classes can be finished on the second stomp following inside couple seconds of first interupt, 3/8 have one “guaranteed” escape (without blink stomp or " lucky delayed – restarted stomp"). 5/8 can be stomped with stability or timed blind – engi in the same boat with the majority here ;((.

2. #3 doesn’t crit kittenloads with glass builds.
But darn, it actually does. I can recall a 5.5k with SD setup in wuhwuh, quick try in the mists gave 4.4k. Mesmer #3 has slightly higher skill co-efficient, but it’s not aoe and not a interupt.
Me pulling numbers here doesn’t mean much, but all I said, #3 crits loads in power builds, and it does.

3. #1 does bad damage in condition builds.
This is totally RNG dependant unfortunately, but if you have high condition duration you can get more than 10 stacks of bleeds with good luck. Which is quite abit of DPS for a downed. Once againg, all I said, with condition builds 1 spam can do very good dps. Which it can. It can also do no stacks with no dps. Many classes have very low dps on their #1 spam,

So seems like what I said is atleast quite reasonable.
If I said something like:
Engi downed is the best downed, I always chill the enemy in downed followed by double interupted stomp while stacking 10+ bleeds with #3 and 4k+ #3 crits. I also blind eles so they cannot mistform. I win all 1v1 downed nukes versus rangers.

If I said that, I could accept “Blatantly, undisputeably, imperically proven, wrong.” but not to what I said.

Cry if you want but don’t try to BS. thx. I really cannot say engi downed state is alarmingly underpowered like people like to cry.

Ostricheggs.3742:

My biggest problem with our downed state is our auto attack. RNG downed fights are the worst. The game mocks me and gives a billion kittening chills when we all know they aren’t doing jack kitten to the other guy throwing his rocks

Yea the damage alone on number one is unacceptable

Sabull.5670:

Wtf are people talking about. EVERY classes downed cooldowns are timed so that you can interupt once, and then if the enemy spends a few extra seconds before the second stomp you can use #3 for extra interupt (if you have it). Thats the kitten design for it.

All downed interupts can be blinded, just as they are supposed to, not only engineers.
And in condition builds engi actually pushes out very good damage in downed vs downed.

And in burst builds 3 crits quite kitten loads, just like all classes when they spec glass.
Engi downed skills are great.

^ I don’t know why everybody thinks this is misinformation. All professions have the same cooldowns on downed 2 and 3, all interrupts can be blinded (thief, ele, and mesmer don’t have “interrupts,” they have escape skills). Engineer downed 3 does do good damage. My issue with the downed state is that #2 has buggy targeting and the damage is RNG, as Ostricheggs said.

Not all #2 abilities have the same effectiveness at delaying a finisher, and not all #3 skills have equal cast time.

On my thief I find that I can put #3 to use rather frequently, whereas on engineer it is almost always just out of reach. Seriously, that cast time makes a massive difference. I can’t count how many times I die just as booby trap animation starts.

ionic.2106:

Wow really, seriously the engineer has the worst down state out of all the professions. Arena net needs to buff engineers downstate or add new skills. I die almost every time i am about to do the number 3 skill “The Big Bomb”. A number one skill should be throw little nades that cripple for 1 second or something like that. number 3 skill should blind enemies. If you have any good ideas let me know. we need to push this to arena net so they can see this. “What A Joke Of a Down State”

I’m going to say this, and probably get flamed at but w/e. Necro has the worst down state due to their lack of health when downed. Period. End of Story.

Engineer has 2 skills to help them survive, while I would want them to lower the cooldown on 3, it would be too OP. Other classes only have access to one ‘survival’ ability when they go down, and then they have to wait for their next survival ability to be usable, just like we have to. For the most part it’s fairly balanced. That being said, there is a class that has a downstate that is simply too powerful, Ele I am looking at you, and need to have their downstate skills reworked. Personally I do not think any class should be able to move as soon as they go down and there should be a period of time that they have to wait for that ability to be usable, similar to the warrior’s vengeance. Before you say anything, Thief and Mesmer down states are fine, Teleporting/Invis is different from getting up and physically running away, move along now.

Look at me I’m getting off track, I am going to assume you’re either new to the game or just trolling the Engineer forums. I’ll apologize for the devs, “We’re sorry that we did not let the Engineer summon Chuck Norris when downed.” Look at the other professions’ down state, before you claim we have the weakest downed state.
TL;DR, We’re fine.

Looking at other professions downed state skills and using them, just serves to emphasise how awful and unbalanced the engineer downed state skills are.

Sabull.5670:

/Strawman arguments everywhere

Okay, fine, i’ll elaborate.

Sabull.5670:

Wtf are people talking about. EVERY classes downed cooldowns are timed so that you can interupt once,

No, not every profession is designed to only interupt once. A Thief has his cooldowns in such a way that its very likely and viable for him to interupt twice. Once with Shadow Escape and then once more with the Stealth. So again, no, not every profession is designed to interupt once.

and then if the enemy spends a few extra seconds before the second stomp you can use #3 for extra interupt (if you have it). Thats the kitten design for it.

Why would he spend extra seconds to begin with? But, okay. Still, i’ll point back to the last one. Thieves get 2 interupts and they get them both far more reliably. If that is the intented design, then its a kittenty design. Hence, this thread (and many before it.)

All downed interupts can be blinded, just as they are supposed to, not only engineers.

Flat out a lie. Mesmer, Thief and Ele can interupt a stomp regardless of blind, stability, stealth, LoS and even how many people are actually trying to finish them. They have a guarenteed, 100% successful, interupt.
Infact Warrior and Engineer are the only two professions who’s interupt adhere to every single drawback. Stealth, Stability, Blind, LoS and Single-target.

And in condition builds engi actually pushes out very good damage in downed vs downed.

Engineer downed damage is the weakest of all professions. Between half and a third, depending on the profession you compare to. A chance for a short bleed, doesnt make up for that. Not anywhere close.

Engineer has the worst downedstate by a country mile. The weakest form of interupt, a near useless 3# ability due to the very long cooldown and very short time an Engineer stays alive. And the lowest damage, even if you get lucky.

Specterryu Quipter.8412:

I’m going to say this, and probably get flamed at but w/e. Necro has the worst down state due to their lack of health when downed. Period. End of Story.

This isn’t a big deal because it is only in PvE. Just waypoint and try again.

Down state balance is only really important in PvP where it can make a difference between winning and losing a game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Necromancer-PvE-downed-state-health/first

1-2 second reduction in the timer on 3 and we’re balanced, imo.

There is a simple logical problem in our downed skills. Unlike the other classes, we pull the enemy to us with #2. That means that what he has to do is simply stomp us immediatly after that, without even having to move, and we won’t even be able to use #3.

luckywaldo.6089:

Specterryu Quipter.8412:

I’m going to say this, and probably get flamed at but w/e. Necro has the worst down state due to their lack of health when downed. Period. End of Story.

This isn’t a big deal because it is only in PvE. Just waypoint and try again.

This would include WvW as well.

Manuhell.2759:

There is a simple logical problem in our downed skills. Unlike the other classes, we pull the enemy to us with #2. That means that what he has to do is simply stomp us immediatly after that, without even having to move, and we won’t even be able to use #3.

Well you probably shouldn’t be pulling them to you unless they are low on health and your #3 is ready. If you go down… and they are away from you, it’s really not smart to use #2 quickly. Force them to run up to you to stomp… wait a smidge after they start the stomp and then use #2 to interrupt. That might give you enough time to hit #3.

I’m fine with how our #2 and #3 work… I just HATE our #1. It’s way too weak.

I dont mind our downstate too terribly much. I mean, compared to necromancer or really most other class’ downed states it’s downright horrendous… but that’s true with our entire class :-P. It’s not so bad that I can’t work with it, so that’s fine by me.

It might not sound as a major difference, but I do not think our down state is bad… I think that the down state of other professions is too strong!

When you’re downed, you lost the fight with only an extremely small chance of recovering. Most professions can do way too much that goes beyond the basic idea of lying on the floor strugling to stay alive.