Guild Wars 2

Our rifle spells basically consist of short range shotgun blasts and knockbacks. Wouldn’t it make more sense for the warrior, with his heavy armor, to be the one getting in close and using shotgun abilities while the engineer supports with his turrets and long range rifle abilities?

I think it’d vastly improve our damage and give an option to the players like me that think all of the Engineer kits are boring or just plain suck (especially the flamethrower).

Yes and no. I wouldnt mind the rifle build we currently have if we got some sort of long range weapon (besides grenades). Its weird that a warriors get to outrange us.

yeah the rifle realy have short range and enemies can close up fast, we also have the trait which can give extra range, but its not good enough compare to other traits.

for long range i personaly use grenades , with range of 1500 if u use its trait.

Personally i think the rifle should be turned into a proper long range weapon.
The current rifle skills should be moved into a “shotgun” weapon kit.
Let’s face it – apart from grenades (which are a bit tedious but good) – we don’t have a real long range option.
Considering how comparatively squishy we are , this seems like a bit of a problem to me.

http://www.gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fcAQFAUl0pyUX8SfF17IxoHkuzbG0D963+KqQlB;TkAg0CnoqxUjoGbNuak1MoA

You’re welcome.

Forums are buggy. Copy/paste link.

This build allows you to do great damage at range and even more up close. I’d recommend it for just about anything if you know how to kite (don’t play engineer if you can’t kite), don’t mind being squishy, and aren’t too concerned with taking condition damage.

rifle just needs 2 things really.

Blunderbuss needs to be 250/500/750 range imo and max dmg at 250 range ofc. IT’s stupid to have it do max dmg at range smaller than melee. Melee has 130-150. BB hits max at 100…. that’s literally standing on your enemy.

Second fix needed is #5. It needs to be faster and smoother. AoE needs to be a bit bigger, at least landing out. Right now jump in spot takes like 2-3 seconds.

Besides those, rifle is ok.

Killyox.3950:

rifle just needs 2 things really.

Blunderbuss needs to be 250/500/750 range imo and max dmg at 250 range ofc. IT’s stupid to have it do max dmg at range smaller than melee. Melee has 130-150. BB hits max at 100…. that’s literally standing on your enemy.

Second fix needed is #5. It needs to be faster and smoother. AoE needs to be a bit bigger, at least landing out. Right now jump in spot takes like 2-3 seconds.

Besides those, rifle is ok.

true!
Another point… For example the warrior rifle skill 3 hits from max range harder then blunderbuss from melee range

I’d also rather have the warrior’s rifle skills, especially since we have a (unfortunately terrible) flamethrower for close combat that has similar skills just like the engineer rifle. The flamethrower in it’s current state us a pointless kit/weapon since the rifle can do the same things while having a reliable, strong autoattack that even deals more damage than the flamethrower’s autoattacks while being ranged.

When I equipped a rifle as a warrior I was all like “man, I wish the engineer had those skills!” I understand it’s decent to have many melee abilities so you aren’t screwed when somebody is beating your face in in melee, but when the rifle’s only reliable ranged attack is the autoattack, then there might be something wrong with the rifle, since it’s not a rifle anymore – it’s a shotgun. It makes me incredibly sad that a warrior gets a skill like his rifle#3 that obliterates people for 3k+ damage at range, while the engineer gets a clumsy blast, that has like the most pathetic range of all ranged abilities and hardly does any decent damage. I also don’t understand why a resilient class like the warrior can knock somebody back without any disadvantage at all, while the engineer knocks himself down when using his similar ability.

Why did the devs not just give the engineer a shotgun with the current skills so people don’t complain if things get chnged and give the engineer a real ranged rifle with a decent skillset similar to the warrior’s?

Engineers are the only class who can’t reliably fight at 1200 range without using traits. We are also the only ones without a proper melee kit (I love it when eles drop their elemental weapons – gives me at least a few seconds of melee goodness).

Andazeus.1928:

Engineers are the only class who can’t reliably fight at 1200 range without using traits.

Guardian?

Scepter. 1200 range.

Andazeus.1928:

Scepter. 1200 range.

Thats like saying grenades are a viable 1200 range.

You can HAVE it at that range, but it doesn’t mean its effective. Grenades, and scepter attacks are simply far too easy to dodge at anything greater than medium to short range.

Grenades only provide ground targeted projectiles, that are easy to dodge. Actually, you don’t even need to dodge on long range. Just moving a bit does the trick.

Guardian scepter 1 is a homing, targeted attack. The smite zone has no travel time, so you will get at least some hits in, before they dodge out of it + scepter 3 is targeted and instant and immobilizes. So: 3 -> smite -> spam 1. Lots of damage. No escape.

I have been using that combo to great effect in WvW.

Andazeus.1928:

Guardian scepter 1 is a homing, targeted attack. The smite zone has no travel time, so you will get at least some hits in, before they dodge out of it…

Last time i checked #1 wasn’t homing and you could simply sidestep it without much effort.
Smite hits seem random at best.

The scepter is as much a viable 1200 range weapon for the guardian as the tool kit is a viable melee weapon for the engineer.

Candiru.5279:

Killyox.3950:

rifle just needs 2 things really.

Blunderbuss needs to be 250/500/750 range imo and max dmg at 250 range ofc. IT’s stupid to have it do max dmg at range smaller than melee. Melee has 130-150. BB hits max at 100…. that’s literally standing on your enemy.

Second fix needed is #5. It needs to be faster and smoother. AoE needs to be a bit bigger, at least landing out. Right now jump in spot takes like 2-3 seconds.

Besides those, rifle is ok.

true!
Another point… For example the warrior rifle skill 3 hits from max range harder then blunderbuss from melee range

Blunderbuss is Cone AoE and single hit. It’s a lot harder to dodge than warrior’s #3.

Killyox.3950:

Candiru.5279:

Killyox.3950:

rifle just needs 2 things really.

Blunderbuss needs to be 250/500/750 range imo and max dmg at 250 range ofc. IT’s stupid to have it do max dmg at range smaller than melee. Melee has 130-150. BB hits max at 100…. that’s literally standing on your enemy.

Second fix needed is #5. It needs to be faster and smoother. AoE needs to be a bit bigger, at least landing out. Right now jump in spot takes like 2-3 seconds.

Besides those, rifle is ok.

true!
Another point… For example the warrior rifle skill 3 hits from max range harder then blunderbuss from melee range

Blunderbuss is Cone AoE and single hit. It’s a lot harder to dodge than warrior’s #3.

But then, warriors 3 counts as a combo finisher and doesn’t miss at weird angles and at camera turning.

Since the range was slashed to 50% of what it was on rifles and pistols in beta… i find them both to be the weapons of last resort and like many here run grenades simply because it and the elixir gun are the only decent ranged options now. And with the broken autotargeting with kit swapping elixir gun is a pain to run anywhere outside of pve.

After playing the warrior with rifle i’d have to agree with the OP that it seems like they got the two weapons mixed up, although i’d hate to lose the rifle from my warrior.

Warrior’s rifle is a lot more like a soldier trained to use a rifle.

Engineer’s rifle feels more like a modified weapon, which makes it seem a lot more like something a fantasy engineer would use.

Don’t you dare touch my rifle… I have my Engineer built for just that purpose to be up in your face shotgun blasting you and knocking you back.

As state before thought the Nr:5 skill could be a lot smoother. But yeah don’t touch unless they’re making us a “Shotgun” weapon. Where the main skill is like a reverse longbow, the close we are the more damage we do. Now that I would honestly love…

But unless they add a shotgun to have the current abilities on… Well don’t touch it!

I agree and I don’t understand what Anet was thinking when designing the rifle for Engineer. Really hope they rework the abilities cause, as it stands they don’t make much sense and I really do love using the rifle over dual pistols. The net shot is probably the only ability that should stay out of the arsenal the rifle currently has. It would be kind of nice if the auto attack on rifle applied bleed or even vulnerability as well! Just my two sense on it all.

JAClockwork.6507:

I agree and I don’t understand what Anet was thinking when designing the rifle for Engineer. Really hope they rework the abilities cause, as it stands they don’t make much sense and I really do love using the rifle over dual pistols. The net shot is probably the only ability that should stay out of the arsenal the rifle currently has. It would be kind of nice if the auto attack on rifle applied bleed or even vulnerability as well! Just my two sense on it all.

Keep your grubby little meathooks off my net shot! It’s the reason I have trouble deciding whether to go with rifle or pistol/shield for my explosives build.

I agree with the OP. How the heck is it that a warrior is better with a rifle than an engineer?! Any one who says otherwise is either in denile or isnt an engineer. The damage the engineer does with his weapons are terrible compared to all other classes. and dont even get me started on the terrible weapon kits besides grenades My main is an engineer and I am severely regretting after seeing how much better a warrior is with the rifle. Feels like the engineer is the ugly step child of the classes. going to re roll until it gets buffed

Warrior is a weapons master. Engineer likes to tinker with stuff.

Warrior absolutely sounds like he would be able to use any standard weapon with its standard usage more effectively than an engineer.

I am fine with rifle being a shotgun. I actually think the rifle hit and run melee play style is fun and challenging. I think we could use some trait changes, and having more condition removal / counter CC moved around so that these builds become more viable.

I do agree that we could use a long range ST weapon. But that is something that can be added via another kit / weapon later on.

Once you accept the engineer as a mid / close range fighter, and give up on trying to be a sniper you’ll have a lot more fun with engineer I think.

It’s just not built for it. Our strengths are AoE, CC, and conditions.

I would love for the Engineer Rifle to get reworked, I love my engineer amazingly, but i dread kits. I really hate the idea about using kits, just the fact that i hide a weapon i used ages on getting… i just like to see my Main-hand weapon. We miss out totaly on the Weapon progress, because whenever we want to do just a little bit of dmg, we need to switch to some awfull dull kit.

Please oh please stop making the suggestion to add another kit. The mechanics of switching between the already existing kits, along with the inability to upgrade the cosmetics or the stats of said kits, make kits the least used thing in my engineer’s arsenal. For crying out loud, until they allow me to equip kits into a weapons swap kind of situation, I don’t even want to see the suggestion for a new kit.

I love the movement control offered to the engineer. It’s so fun to swap from flamethrower to airblast, to jump shot rifle, to the backwards flip of the elixir gun!

However, I do agree that the rifle should be a long ranged weapon and the engineer should have a shotgun weapon kit.

Unless they make weapon changes somewhere along the line, I don’t see this happening. It would be nice though! (In expansions, as opposed to new classes, they introduce new weapons?)

People say that engineer is a close/mid range fighter.

Then why do we have a trait that is called sniper and gives us 10% more crit chance if we stand still…

I agree, the rifle should be buffed. I dont want to be a “bomberman” or a “TF2 Engi”

Well, the backblast makes sense to help keep us out of melee distence along with the net, but basically I only use the auto attack. Bunderblast is kinda…stupid in both concept and damage output, while I only really use the gun jump to move around the environment. The jump is just to slow to be all the useful and I thought that being more on cc the concept would to be keeping us OUT of melee and not giving us stuff that moves us into it.

I want to love the engineer more, but as I go up I keep finding more problems. Basically all the weapon skills are just…underwhelming. Even the weapon kits, especially the bomb kit., are high on originality but low on actual use.

I get better mobility and variability as a rogue/warrior vs as a engineer, less random stuff from elixers too.

Since everyone is so keen on having the rifle nerfed… Yes I consider it a nerf since I love the rifle in it’s current form. Knockback/immobilize build hell yeah! 3.2k Crits with blunderbuss up close, knock them back n jump on top of their skulls for another 2.4k crit

So unless you give me a proper shotgun I say no for this nerf!

You mean it is a nerf to your particular crit percentage build? How so? I am not understanding the logic in claiming that the same damage at a 1200 range is a nerf to it at 400 range? how do you make such an unusual conclusion ?

I hate it when people think “Warrior” Means up close and personal class.

Its obvious at this point that what anet meant with “Warrior” is someone who is TRAINED to be a man of war, trained to make effective use of weapons of war.

A warrior is going to be better at using a rifle when it comes to killing while an engineers ability to use rifle revolve around gagetry like net shots, wacky use of explosions to make a speedy hop, overload the barrel to make a shotgun spread, or use the explosiveness of shots to knock people back

coglin.1496:

You mean it is a nerf to your particular crit percentage build? How so? I am not understanding the logic in claiming that the same damage at a 1200 range is a nerf to it at 400 range? how do you make such an unusual conclusion ?

Actually it’s not a crit build put more of power build, n reason I’d consider it a nerf is cause it’s built to be up close n in your face. :P If I wanted to be ranged I would of rolled a Warrior or Ranger, not an Engineer since they’re mid ranged yet people do not seem to understand that. But either way point still stands, bring in a shotgun with current abilities n you can have your changes.

Chii.2814:

I hate it when people think “Warrior” Means up close and personal class.

Its obvious at this point that what anet meant with “Warrior” is someone who is TRAINED to be a man of war, trained to make effective use of weapons of war.

A warrior is going to be better at using a rifle when it comes to killing while an engineers ability to use rifle revolve around gagetry like net shots, wacky use of explosions to make a speedy hop, overload the barrel to make a shotgun spread, or use the explosiveness of shots to knock people back

I think it is more that the warrior is more set up for melee then engineer. I personally love that you can make an effective rifle warrior, i’ve played one for years in D&D and love that I can finally take that to an mmo. But abilities like the rocket jump and blunderbuss seem more in vein with a warrior then engineer. Simply put, the warrior is able to switch to a melee weapon set as needed while the engineer does not want to be getting in melee if it can be avoided. Or at least that is my interpretation of the classes.

I personally think that that’s how they wanted to build the engineer, a guy who gets to someone’s face and blasts it off someone’s body with an Overcharged shot. The rifle’s a kiting weapon to a major extent, so that’s what should be expected of it. The rifle’s abilities of a blunderbuss, rocket launcher (sorta), net launcher, and a actual gun would decrease the range if it was real, right?

See the rifle for what it is. A medium/short range control weapon that deals average burst in a power/crit build.

The only problem with it is that its 5 is very slow to start up and finish, its 3 has a weird arc of fire and deals only full damage at less than melee range, and its 2 can be obstructed/avoided when its 1 would normally hit.

We don’t need the Warrior’s rifle. We just need improvements on our own.

irakai.6891:

See the rifle for what it is. A medium/short range control weapon that deals average burst in a power/crit build.

The only problem with it is that its 5 is very slow to start up and finish, its 3 has a weird arc of fire and deals only full damage at less than melee range, and its 2 can be obstructed/avoided when its 1 would normally hit.

We don’t need the Warrior’s rifle. We just need improvements on our own.

Skills:
2: Agreed it gets obstructed by nothing and is actually effected by if someone just “moves” away from the spot.
3: True, the range for max damage does seem a bit bugged or very weird to say the least.
5: The skill is alright but the only thing bugging me is the .2-.5s that you’re still hanging in mid air.

Personal suggestion:
1: Since I love being up close I’d love for the 1 skill to be a shotgun like ability as in the closer you are the more damage… BUUT for all those Wannabe rifle warriors out there I guess this wouldn’t be a positive thing.

I really like my engineer in close range but pretty useless at long range. Grenades are unreliable at long range (except sieges) and our only long range weapon only has 1 long range skill (net wont hit any target at 1200 range unless they are afk) I can’t think of any suggestions that can make engi good in long range without making it godlike in melee, but i would like to see some improvements.

My main beef with the rifle isn’t what it skills offer, my main beef is with how a lot of kits seem to work best at a mid/melee range, which is where the rifle also works best at.

Flamethrower, Bomb Kit, Tool kit all work best in an area where rifle already works great at.

Elixir gun has more range but it is a conditions kit and does not synergies with the rifle well.

Grenade kit is a power based weapon too and it is probably the only kit that naturally compliments the rifle.

Andazeus.1928:

Engineers are the only class who can’t reliably fight at 1200 range without using traits.

Thief has nothing with range 1200. Shortbow and Pistol are both range 900 weapons. There are no Traits or anything to extend that range. There are no Thief utility skills that can do damage at range either.

Necromancers have very limited options for 1200 ranged as well. The staff is the only Necro weapon with attacks at this range but most of those attacks are actually AoE ground target marks that don’t really function as ranged attacks, and rather are intended to be placed in close quarters fighting.

metaphorm.6904:

Andazeus.1928:

Engineers are the only class who can’t reliably fight at 1200 range without using traits.

Thief has nothing with range 1200. Shortbow and Pistol are both range 900 weapons. There are no Traits or anything to extend that range. There are no Thief utility skills that can do damage at range either.

Necromancers have very limited options for 1200 ranged as well. The staff is the only Necro weapon with attacks at this range but most of those attacks are actually AoE ground target marks that don’t really function as ranged attacks, and rather are intended to be placed in close quarters fighting.

I disagree, necros may indeed have AoE targetted marks, but they are instant, they don’t have a travel time like grenades and that makes them pretty good at range.

I guess I’m the only person in the universe who likes the engineer’s rifle. It’s a lot more fun and interesting than the warriors rifle, who all five (six) skills just do damage for the most part.

Peter.8659:

I guess I’m the only person in the universe who likes the engineer’s rifle. It’s a lot more fun and interesting than the warriors rifle, who all five (six) skills just do damage for the most part.

Oh I agree too, its just that its a tad clunky.

I just tryed a warrior to compare the abilitys. and tbh, as an engi im a littlekitten

Auto-attack Skill
Bleeding Shot vs Hip Shot
Hip shot does more direct damage, Bleeding shot adds bleeding effect.
Both seem to pierce target and same casting time. Bleeding shot has more reach.

Control Skill
Aimed Shot vs Net Shot
Net Shot is a 2 sec immobilize that deals no damage, Aimed Shot is a 5 sec cripple that deals damage.
Both have a 10 sec cooldown, Aimed Shot has more range.

Knockback Skill
Rifle Butt vs Overcharged Shot
Overcharged shot has more range and cures some conditions, but knocks self back.
Both deal the same damage, and have the same enemy knockback range. and same cooldown.

The other skills aren’t really comparable so I’ll just list what they do.

Brutal Shot
Deals moderate damage, adds 5 vulnerability (10sec) with 1,200 range and 15 sec cooldown.

Blunderbuss
Deals high damage at range under 100, thats shorter than melee range. Also adds 4 stacks of bleeding. at over 101-400 range it deals good damage, and applys 1 stack of bleeding. with a 10sec cooldown.

Volley
Fires 5 shots for a really high total damage. Unlike the Poison dart skill of the engi, the bullets aren’t fired randomly in a cone, they all hit the target. with a 1,200 range and 10 sec cooldown.

Jump Shot
This is a 2 stage skills, the jump deals moderate damage around the caster and gives 3 stacks of vulnerability. landing deals high damage and applies 3 stacks of vulnerability around the landing zone. (can be used to jump in spot to hit the same target with both jump and landing for very high damage and 6 stacks of vulnerability) range of 700 and cooldown of 20 sec

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I do find it odd that then engi has short ranged attacks while the warrior has long range ones, mainly because the warrior has the heavy armor that allows him to take a hit better than the engi can.

The Warrior’s rifle abilitys are all about keeping the target at bay, with a knockback, and cripple shot. He even has a 1500 range kill shot skill.
But the engi’s rifle skills are halved. he has an immobilize and knowkback/self knockback to keep enemys away, but then has a leap power to get in close, and another skill that requires him to be closer than a melee fighter needs to get to get the most out of it.

I would just like to say again, the warrior is the one with heavy armor not the engi.
I dont know much about the warrior’s utility but i did look over them and Im noticing he and the engi has several abilities in common, mainly immobilize and knockbacks, but he also has several that increase his defense, be they banners, signets or stances.

So.. ya I agree that the engi should be the one with the long range rifle skills and the warrior should have the shotgun abilities.
Another option thats a bit more engineer like is to give the engi the swap weapon command to swap fire mods on the rifle and pistol. Kinda like the elem has but instead of 4 weapon sets he only has 2, short/long range for the rifle and single/multi target for the pistols. kits would still only have 1 weapon set. After all the engineer is about having all alot of options.

I don’t get it… Seriously someone explain to me what’s so bad with the rifle being a shotgun like weapon? Warriors are warriors, Engineers are Engineers… Why do you want to make us Wannabe Warriors? Why is it that people are making it seem like Offense is the best Defense…

Battering ram > Jump Shot > Blunderbuss/Overcharged shot > If Blunderbuss(Overcharged shot) If Overcharged(Skip) > Netshot > Profit…

Also for the Sniper trait 10% crit when standing still… Personally I think it’s the dumbest thing ever… Why not just have 90 Precision or 10% crit when using a Rifle? Why do we need to stand still…

So I ask this… Why do people want another Rifle Warrior when they could of rolled a Rifle Warrior…

Umm, because it is called a rifle, and not a shotgun. The names themselves lend to the ideology of what each ones range should be. Combine that with the fact that we we are one of only two professions with out a 1200 range option (unless we spend traits, which others do not require it for that range)

Lyuben.2613:

Peter.8659:

I guess I’m the only person in the universe who likes the engineer’s rifle. It’s a lot more fun and interesting than the warriors rifle, who all five (six) skills just do damage for the most part.

Oh I agree too, its just that its a tad clunky.

It is a bit clunky, yeah. But so does a lot of other engineer abilities. I find it… charming. I gives the profession that eccentric personality that I think fits so well.

Eng has more hard CC on the rifle, and far more burst, thats why its closer range, with traits the eng rifle is far superior to the warriors rifle

engineer rifle is fine. I currently main in spvp and tpvp with it. You have a ton of cc along with a ridiculous amount of burst. Not to mention that it’s sustain is huge. Honestly you can’t expect to do as much damage as a rifle warrior unless you build glass cannon like they do. Which is what I think the hang up seems to be.

In its current form, it’s not a rifle, it’s a shotgun. It’s nice, but I would like a sniper rifle option. I would like something long-range to shoot with that doesn’t give me carpal tunnel syndrome from spamming grenades.

Warriors can’t be the masters of everything. Engs need some love.