Guild Wars 2

Ive always known it has been horrible, but you really dont realize how bad it is intil your in a down state trying to kill someone else in a down state. Its not even close how bad other characters can murder us in the down state. I would be ok with that if we had a unique down state skill but we dont even have that. We have a piss poor 1 skill, a horrible 2 skill (really we want to PULL the people trying to kill us) and a decent level 3 in which you rarley get to use.

I just ran from a good fight because I knew I would lose the down state war. Im not saying engineers should win, but we should be able to do SOMETHING.

Also it isnt even good in the pve aspect or wvwvw aspect. Its just bad.

I have to say, after trying other professions, I am amazed by how bad Engineer’s downed state abilities are.

The only remotely decent thing we have is the ability to pull low hp mobs from a pack to us, in the hopes to rally off it via exploding it with 3 and spamming 1. But by the time you have 3 available, you’re generally deader than dead.

I love my thief, mesmer and elementalist’s down skills. I’ve saved myself numerous times…

Having played every class to the 40s, I strongly agree.

It’s odd that we have no emergency gadget. We’ve got one for everything else, including underwater downed state,

There isn’t enough hyperbole in the English language to adequately describe how terrible Engineer down skills are.

This is a joke thread, right? Engineer downed skills are amazing. They probably have the best set of downed skills in the game. The 1 skill does massive damage and they have twice the disables to prevent stomps and/or neutralize incoming damage.

Try playing any other class other than the engineer so you can appreciate how good their downed skills are.

The best part of the #2 skill is that its range is terrible, and it has a super long cooldown to boot. Your one chance to stop a flag-plant and it only works on one person AND draws them into your loving arms to boot. Pity by the time explosion is up they’ve already had enough time to plant a flag in your face two and a half times.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

This is a joke thread, right? Engineer downed skills are amazing. They probably have the best set of downed skills in the game. The 1 skill does massive damage and they have twice the disables to prevent stomps and/or neutralize incoming damage.

Try playing any other class other than the engineer so you can appreciate how good their downed skills are.

your posts are a joke. Every single one.

No, just no.
Before the mist form change ele down state was horrible, until a downed state is that bad it is not terrible.

We have an interrupt on 2 and our 1 skill does decent damage and has a nice chance to chill.
As for hardly ever getting to use explosion? Well guess what other classes hardly ever get to use their 3 skill either.

You know how most 1v1 fights against downed people go?

Warrior, dodge hammer then finish them. No vengeance, hell even if you get hit with the hammer you have enough time to stand back up and finish them.

Thief, start finisher and when they teleport away you just cancel walk up to them and finish them anyway.

Mesmer, stop attacking wait for the real one to appear(hint: the one with the big red dot above their head) then finish them.

Ele, start finisher so they pop mist form then cancel it and follow them. Finish them as soon as mist form ends.

They don’t seem so different to;
Engineer, start finisher then cancel it and dodge the pull then finish them.

TL:DR Engineer down state skills are on the same level as every other class.

Lalnuir.4957:

No, just no.
Before the mist form change ele down state was horrible, until a downed state is that bad it is not terrible.

We have an interrupt on 2 and our 1 skill does decent damage and has a nice chance to chill.
As for hardly ever getting to use explosion? Well guess what other classes hardly ever get to use their 3 skill either.

You know how most 1v1 fights against downed people go?

Warrior, dodge hammer then finish them. No vengeance, hell even if you get hit with the hammer you have enough time to stand back up and finish them.

Thief, start finisher and when they teleport away you just cancel walk up to them and finish them anyway.

Mesmer, stop attacking wait for the real one to appear(hint: the one with the big red dot above their head) then finish them.

Ele, start finisher so they pop mist form then cancel it and follow them. Finish them as soon as mist form ends.

They don’t seem so different to;
Engineer, start finisher then cancel it and dodge the pull then finish them.

TL:DR Engineer down state skills are on the same level as every other class.

Except nearly every other #2 downed state ability has a lengthy stall tactic to it. The entire mist form period is invulnerable, the Mesmer can stay stealthed for a period after creating a clone, so can the thief after teleporting, etc. But the scorpion wire for engineers has about a half-second knock-down to it…IF it connects. There is no stalling other than the initial hit AND using #2 does zilch to prevent any other incoming damage unlike all those other classes. Furthermore, it is entirely useless against quickness finishers and stealth finishers whereas Ele, Mesmer, and Thiefs all negate those finishers if they fire #2 (and aren’t unlucky about how close they end up to the initial finishing attempt).

Meanwhile, nearly every other class can fire a timely #2 to hold out until their #3 timer is ready and then they have yet another move to use. Engineers only ever fire off #3 in PvE or if their opponent is comatose.

Necromancer, why do I have a nosebleed? Oww! Something is really hurting … why is that necromancer on the floor looking healthier? Oh gods he’s drinking my blood. Must finish him off …. aaaaargh helpmehelpmehelpme … he’s still drinking. Oh, he’s on his feet … why has he gone all dark? I can’t see … I …

Lalnuir.4957:

TL:DR Engineer down state skills are on the same level as every other class.

Yeaaah, well… No, not really. Every other class has a better mechanic, the ones you just described (except maybe rangers ?). The simple fact that you describe a strategy to beat them show they are better ! Engineer downed strategy : just go to them and stomp away, oh wait he pulled me, never mind just stomp him.

I find a mobility skill goes a long way in WvW, when it gets you out of the kill zone and closer to your allies.

Fikfain.5849:

Except nearly every other #2 downed state ability has a lengthy stall tactic to it. The entire mist form period is invulnerable, the Mesmer can stay stealthed for a period after creating a clone, so can the thief after teleporting, etc. But the scorpion wire for engineers has about a half-second knock-down to it…IF it connects. There is no stalling other than the initial hit AND using #2 does zilch to prevent any other incoming damage unlike all those other classes. Furthermore, it is entirely useless against quickness finishers and stealth finishers whereas Ele, Mesmer, and Thiefs all negate those finishers if they fire #2 (and aren’t unlucky about how close they end up to the initial finishing attempt).

Meanwhile, nearly every other class can fire a timely #2 to hold out until their #3 timer is ready and then they have yet another move to use. Engineers only ever fire off #3 in PvE or if their opponent is comatose.

The mesmer stealth is about 1 second (I’m not even sure if it’s an actually stealth or just rendering) and if you aren’t using skills mesmer downed state damage is pathetic. A mesmer should never get their 3 skill off in a 1v1 fight unless you are kitten or got downed at the same time as the mesmer.

An ele might get off the first tick or two of grasping earth before you finish them if they time their mist form right and you were not right next to them when they got downed but that’s it, you still finish them.

A thief does not stealth with their number 2 skill, if they aren’t showing up after using it that is due to rendering, use tab to target them then finish them. Only their number 3 skill stealths them and it has the same cool down as explosion, meaning they will never get it off in a 1v1 fight because you walked/dodged rolled up them them after they tele’d and finisher them.
Don’t stand there completing your finisher after a thief teles just cancel it and move on.

Rangers, warriors, necromancers, guardians and engineers all cannot stop quickness finishers. Half the time ele/mesmer/thieves can’t stop quickness finishers either.

No class except ele can fire a timely number 2 to hold out until their 3 skill in a 1v1 fight against a good player and eles 3 skill is useless as you never get it more than 1-2 ticks before you get finished.

binidj.5734:

Necromancer, why do I have a nosebleed? Oww! Something is really hurting … why is that necromancer on the floor looking healthier? Oh gods he’s drinking my blood. Must finish him off …. aaaaargh helpmehelpmehelpme … he’s still drinking. Oh, he’s on his feet … why has he gone all dark? I can’t see … I …

Necro life drain is buggy and difficult to cancel just finish them or dodge their fear then finish them.

NeryK.5301:

Yeaaah, well… No, not really. Every other class has a better mechanic, the ones you just described (except maybe rangers ?). The simple fact that you describe a strategy to beat them show they are better ! Engineer downed strategy : just go to them and stomp away, oh wait he pulled me, never mind just stomp him.

I find a mobility skill goes a long way in WvW, when it gets you out of the kill zone and closer to your allies.

Most of the time you can time your pull interrupt just right that your 3 skill comes off cool down before they can finish you. This means you want your pull to land towards the end of the finisher animation instead of the start.
It’s the same with all classes a well timed 2 skill will give you enough time for your 3 skill to come off cool down but all the skills are stupid easy to dodge or counter so you should never get them off against a good player unless they are downed as well.

As for WvW the mobility skills are defiantly useful but thief is short ranged and mesmer is random. Ele is the only reliable one to save yourself unless you got hit by a lengthy immobilize before you hit mist form.

I’m sorry but the mesmer downed skills are totally ridiculous, and the stealth is certainly longer than 1 second, a smart mesmer will wait until you try to plant the flag and then use the illusion at the last second. Meanwhile of his illusions are still beating on you, so you have to fight them, while dealing with stacks of confusion and the retaliation every mesmer has on their illusions. One of my first 1v1 experiences in thes game was downing a mesmer solo and still having 2/3rdsof my health and then trying to stomp him only to teleport away, and then on my second stomp having him do so much damage that I was downed (I died). Then I fought him again, got him down with about 1/3 of my health left and decided to be smart and kill his illusions, only to find myself slaughtering myself to confusion and retaliation.

Every other classes down state I can deal with (although I think every other class has a superior mechanism, save maybe for rangers). There are occasional turn arounds (warriors popping their stand up ability when I am low on life and managing to get me before they expire). Mesmers are in a league of their own.

Engi must have abbility:
“Take in guard”
And after taking in guard in parterre, he wears jiu-jitsu kit or GSP kit or Bracie Barra kit with skills like armbar, triangle kimura and other.

That’s will be good!

A lot of downed state complaints arise mainly from WvW situations where half the classes routinely manage to escape back into the safety of their zerg or group after being downed near the front. Ele’s mist away, Mesmers and Thieves teleport, and warriors freaking stand back up again with a self-rally. Additionally some classes have beneficial traits while downed, as thieves have a “concealed defeat” trait that drops an automatic smoke screen when they’re downed (blinding those in melee range), and necros trait a free auto-fear in a similar fashion (not all thieves/necros will do this). The engineer’s only “beneficial” trait when downed is to drop a flamethrower and elixir kit gun kit for other players to pick up and use (as well as some bandages) which is just absolutely ridiculous. I can’t think of any reason another class would want to randomly grab those kits other than humor, and their doing so certainly doesn’t help the engineer out in any signifigant way.

The grappling line #2 ability is simply horrible. Its range is only 900 so it can’t actually be used to grab squishier players actually standing at range, and judging that distance can sometimes be hard (throwing it out of range wastes it). Its only real use is stopping a flag-planter, in which case it’s probably the worst #2 ability out there as its come-over-here knockdown lasts less than a second because it inflicts no status effect (it is an interrupt, but does not actually cause the knockdown status). Warrior hammer toss causes a 2 second knockdown, Necromancer fear causes two seconds of fear. Probably only the Ranger has a comparably awful #2 with its paltry 1 second of daze, but it’s at least an AoE (centered on the target).

Engineer’s #3 downed ability is strong, but its knockdown is all too brief; its best feature is actually that it’s a blast finisher which can be fun if you’re downed in an AoE field, but then only the warrior and thief really celebrate the use of their #3. For engis generally either it takes too long to come up, or they’ll just get back up afterwards and finish you off for good the next time. It can admittedly be fun if something like a ranger stealths you while ressing and you pull off an invisible BOOM to blow someone off a cliff, but that felt more like a once-in-a-liftetime coincidence.

I’ve played a mesmer/theif and engineer. As a mes/theif I could easily survive long enough to either pick off a mob or wait for an ally to ress me if you’re an engy and you get targeted/swarmed when downed you might aswell open the map up and get ready to use a wp

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

This is a joke thread, right? Engineer downed skills are amazing. They probably have the best set of downed skills in the game. The 1 skill does massive damage and they have twice the disables to prevent stomps and/or neutralize incoming damage.

Try playing any other class other than the engineer so you can appreciate how good their downed skills are.

Fail troll at its finest. I might have thought you sincerely meant it but you said our 1 skills does massive damage. Fail

Lalnuir.4957:

No, just no.
Before the mist form change ele down state was horrible, until a downed state is that bad it is not terrible.

We have an interrupt on 2 and our 1 skill does decent damage and has a nice chance to chill.
As for hardly ever getting to use explosion? Well guess what other classes hardly ever get to use their 3 skill either.

You know how most 1v1 fights against downed people go?

Warrior, dodge hammer then finish them. No vengeance, hell even if you get hit with the hammer you have enough time to stand back up and finish them.

Thief, start finisher and when they teleport away you just cancel walk up to them and finish them anyway.

Mesmer, stop attacking wait for the real one to appear(hint: the one with the big red dot above their head) then finish them.

Ele, start finisher so they pop mist form then cancel it and follow them. Finish them as soon as mist form ends.

They don’t seem so different to;
Engineer, start finisher then cancel it and dodge the pull then finish them.

TL:DR Engineer down state skills are on the same level as every other class.

No. Me and a warrior had a great fight. We downed me and he had just a sliver of life. I used my 2 to stop his stomp and then spammed 1. I couldnt get his tiny sliver of life down. why? Because i stacked chill and vunerability on him and did NO damage to him.

Also I would be fine with the pvp aspect if it was somehow decent in pve or wvwvw. Mist form is incredible for wvwvw. Our 2 can be used to pull someone down but thats extremely rare and we will still die from being unable to move. The pve aspect is decent at best thanks to a strong level 3.

Overall our 1 skill needs to be changed at bare minimum. I would also change the 2nd skill.

To be fair “Throw Junk” deals more upfront basic damage per hit (128) than both the warrior’s and guardian’s (unless the guardian traits for more damage), and naturally more than the ranger’s and the necro’s whose abilities focus on bleed and healing respectively. Regardless of the random condition, it should always deal the base damage per application which makes it largely middle-of-the-road on the highway of terrible #1 abilities (seriously, they’re all universally meh).

Guardians no doubt also have a bad downed state. A warrior is fine thanks to just his number 3 skill.

Rangers guarenteed bleed is nice because well you know your doing damage. I LOVE chilling targets about to kill me. or inflicting invunerability on them so I can hurt them more after I die

omg tell me about it! I just had it happen to me and I’m PVE tankcat specced. WE got overwhelmed at this event in one of the camps in orr (explains why they are taken over there was me and one other guy)

I couldn’t keep myself up with 15 mobs at once and they kept pulling me around all over (we really REALLY need a stability buff! seriously, one that’s not an elite skill!)

tigirius.9014:

omg tell me about it! I just had it happen to me and I’m PVE tankcat specced. WE got overwhelmed at this event in one of the camps in orr (explains why they are taken over there was me and one other guy)

I couldn’t keep myself up with 15 mobs at once and they kept pulling me around all over (we really REALLY need a stability buff! seriously, one that’s not an elite skill!)

would fit perfectly in Super speed from slick shoes. Could be so much <3 when super speed grants stability and removes cripple , chill and immo

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

This is a joke thread, right? Engineer downed skills are amazing. They probably have the best set of downed skills in the game. The 1 skill does massive damage and they have twice the disables to prevent stomps and/or neutralize incoming damage.

Try playing any other class other than the engineer so you can appreciate how good their downed skills are.

This is just so wrong, at the moment I’m mostly playing as an Ele and an engineer and the engy downed state completely sucks compared to the ele.

I 100% agree. Engineers have a horrible downstate.

downstate ability #1 does bleed chill and weakness.

Engineers have one of the best downstates for teamfights. Sometimes people its not all about you. But hey, with that self res from elixir r you can just get up with those soothing vapors.

It was bad durring beta when skills 1 and 3 did no damage for the most part, it was impossible to rally of a kill in pve with it. It is now just fine.

Numot.3965:

Engineers have one of the best downstates for teamfights. Sometimes people its not all about you. But hey, with that self res from elixir r you can just get up with those soothing vapors.

It was bad durring beta when skills 1 and 3 did no damage for the most part, it was impossible to rally of a kill in pve with it. It is now just fine.

What makes it great? Lets see in all aspects of the game

pve: Engineer down state is decent when it comes to pve. It can help u to pull in weak enemies or a huge explosion from 3 can do some major damage in a dungeon

pvp: It is extremely weak in pvp. Its been discussed above

wvwvw: It can be alright in very rare circumstances. Overall though engineer has a very weak wvwvw down state. Ive played both eng and ele in wvwvw extensivley and it is very easy to see which is the stronger.

To be honest, I actually like the Engineer Downstate. Maybe you guys dont know how to take full use of it?

Everytime I sPVP and I am about to die, specially in 1v1, The enemy who wants to “Finish” me off, I intrupt him by using the Pull skill. Then when he tries to “Finish” me off again, I use skill3 to blow the enemy away from me to inturpt him again. Then I normaly able to kill the enemy before I get up. I think it’s really useful and fun.

Not everything is about DPS guys. Even Ranger has amazing Down state.

Numot.3965:

Engineers have one of the best downstates for teamfights. Sometimes people its not all about you. But hey, with that self res from elixir r you can just get up with those soothing vapors.

It was bad durring beta when skills 1 and 3 did no damage for the most part, it was impossible to rally of a kill in pve with it. It is now just fine.

Not everyone runs elixir r and even if they did that’s still taking up a valuable skill slot just to make up for a luck-luster downstate. In team fights the only thing I can possibly help with is to fire my interrupt off at some random target hoping I can cause underwhelming cc and potentially stop one cast. Last but not least the 3rd skill is alright but has a horrible timer. Even if you perfectly interrupt someone’s stomp its still not ready to use for the 2nd incoming stomp when they get back up. So basically just a PvE skill for rallying on low hp monsters.

As someone who plays mainly paid tournaments as an engineer, the engineer downstate is very good.

Genesis.3295:

Not everyone runs elixir r and even if they did that’s still taking up a valuable skill slot just to make up for a luck-luster downstate. In team fights the only thing I can possibly help with is to fire my interrupt off at some random target hoping I can cause underwhelming cc and potentially stop one cast. Last but not least the 3rd skill is alright but has a horrible timer. Even if you perfectly interrupt someone’s stomp its still not ready to use for the 2nd incoming stomp when they get back up. So basically just a PvE skill for rallying on low hp monsters.

No classes #3 ability is available after just 1 interrupt, the person must always be a little slow with stomping to use it. That is completely fine and should not be a source of complaint.

Even I have to admit, the downed state abilities are total garbage. Why on earth would you want to pull your enemy towards you with #2?
Personally the #3 should be #2, up the damage on #1, and give us something awesome for the new #3, Hell like dropping a ton of turrets on yourself.

Seether.7285:

Genesis.3295:

Not everyone runs elixir r and even if they did that’s still taking up a valuable skill slot just to make up for a luck-luster downstate. In team fights the only thing I can possibly help with is to fire my interrupt off at some random target hoping I can cause underwhelming cc and potentially stop one cast. Last but not least the 3rd skill is alright but has a horrible timer. Even if you perfectly interrupt someone’s stomp its still not ready to use for the 2nd incoming stomp when they get back up. So basically just a PvE skill for rallying on low hp monsters.

No classes #3 ability is available after just 1 interrupt, the person must always be a little slow with stomping to use it. That is completely fine and should not be a source of complaint.

It’s not anywhere the source of my complaint, did you just randomly skim through what I said and only happen to read that part? And even if it was my source of complaint it still isn’t okay. We are not on par with the other classes. Maybe if you were able to have some kind of customization in your downed abilities to add to your build mechanics/play-style then I think a lot of people would be much happier.

IceBlizzard.1054:

No. Me and a warrior had a great fight. We downed me and he had just a sliver of life. I used my 2 to stop his stomp and then spammed 1. I couldnt get his tiny sliver of life down. why? Because i stacked chill and vunerability on him and did NO damage to him.

Also I would be fine with the pvp aspect if it was somehow decent in pve or wvwvw. Mist form is incredible for wvwvw. Our 2 can be used to pull someone down but thats extremely rare and we will still die from being unable to move. The pve aspect is decent at best thanks to a strong level 3.

Overall our 1 skill needs to be changed at bare minimum. I would also change the 2nd skill.

Your 1 skill does vulnerability? Hey that’s cool mine does bleed,chill and weakness. What class where you playing again?
Engineer 1 skill actually does pretty decent damage compared to other downed 1 skills. If you where doing no damage the warrior probably had endure pain up.

Only the ele has a good 2 downed skill for WvW.
Thief one is short ranged and mesmer one is random, some times they will save you and some times they will not. The other FIVE classes, not just engineer have an interrupt instead of some kind of mobility on their 2 skill.

Vengeance is nice when you get it off in WvW but the odds of that happening with all the aoes, stealth/stability finishers is very slim. It’s also not a real rally, you have a 15% chance un-traited to rally when you kill someone. If you don’t rally you die when vengeance ends.

helosie.4781:

Even I have to admit, the downed state abilities are total garbage. Why on earth would you want to pull your enemy towards you with #2?
Personally the #3 should be #2, up the damage on #1, and give us something awesome for the new #3, Hell like dropping a ton of turrets on yourself.

Our 2 skill is an interrupt, stop complaining. Unless you guys played an ele BEFORE the mist form change then you do not understand what a terrible downed state is.
Engineer downed state is average, not amazing but on par with the others in most situations.

LegoTechnic.5910:

A lot of downed state complaints arise mainly from WvW situations where half the classes routinely manage to escape back into the safety of their zerg or group after being downed near the front. Ele’s mist away, Mesmers and Thieves teleport, and warriors freaking stand back up again with a self-rally.

Seeing as ele has the only reliable way to get to safety that is not half the classes.

Thief teleport is 600 range, half the time you are still in aoe range after teleporting back.

Mesmer teleport is random, it has a decent chance of sending you towards the enemy zerg.

Who lets a warrior vengeance after they down them? In a zerg on zerg most people I know focus fire on downed people.

Most of the people here saying it is fine do not back up with any reason or quite clearly have never even tried it.
The very existence of the down state is to prevent oneself from being killed, its not for helping team members out, and it fails at this. People are correct in saying that why would you need to pull people closer, they going to come and stomp you anyway so it makes it almost redundant bar the interrupt, after this you’re screwed as the cooldown on 3 ability is WAY to long.

Personally I think they should make the attacks;
1 A melee range damage knockdown (1 second) on a short cooldown (4 seconds?)
2 A 1200 range pull without any interrupt
3 An aoe knockback blast that does a lot less damage but available after 5 seconds.

I agree downed state is rather lackluster or just off. But I think it can be fixed with a minor tweak to scorpion wire. Shortening the cast time and lenghthening the knockdown would go a long way. Also instead of pulling someone I think it should pull the two of us together. So it would work the same to interrupt someone stomping you but also give you some mobility, and possibly be used on an ally. That might be asking for too much tho.

My real problem is Engi’s lack of stability. I mean Elixer S is strong, but we’re really forced into that if we want to stomp at all. When they changed Juggernaut it seemed like a knee jerk reaction that came out of left field. I’d really like to see the traits worked out better

Yes it’s terrible. The cooldown on our knockback being longer than the time it takes to get spiked is ridiculous. Unless I know there is a player nearby that is low health and I might be able to rally off of by throwing rocks, I usually just sit there with the map open ready to click a waypoint.

Lalnuir.4957:

IceBlizzard.1054:

No. Me and a warrior had a great fight. We downed me and he had just a sliver of life. I used my 2 to stop his stomp and then spammed 1. I couldnt get his tiny sliver of life down. why? Because i stacked chill and vunerability on him and did NO damage to him.

Also I would be fine with the pvp aspect if it was somehow decent in pve or wvwvw. Mist form is incredible for wvwvw. Our 2 can be used to pull someone down but thats extremely rare and we will still die from being unable to move. The pve aspect is decent at best thanks to a strong level 3.

Overall our 1 skill needs to be changed at bare minimum. I would also change the 2nd skill.

Your 1 skill does vulnerability? Hey that’s cool mine does bleed,chill and weakness. What class where you playing again?
Engineer 1 skill actually does pretty decent damage compared to other downed 1 skills. If you where doing no damage the warrior probably had endure pain up.

Only the ele has a good 2 downed skill for WvW.
Thief one is short ranged and mesmer one is random, some times they will save you and some times they will not. The other FIVE classes, not just engineer have an interrupt instead of some kind of mobility on their 2 skill.

Vengeance is nice when you get it off in WvW but the odds of that happening with all the aoes, stealth/stability finishers is very slim. It’s also not a real rally, you have a 15% chance un-traited to rally when you kill someone. If you don’t rally you die when vengeance ends.

helosie.4781:

Even I have to admit, the downed state abilities are total garbage. Why on earth would you want to pull your enemy towards you with #2?
Personally the #3 should be #2, up the damage on #1, and give us something awesome for the new #3, Hell like dropping a ton of turrets on yourself.

Our 2 skill is an interrupt, stop complaining. Unless you guys played an ele BEFORE the mist form change then you do not understand what a terrible downed state is.
Engineer downed state is average, not amazing but on par with the others in most situations.

LegoTechnic.5910:

A lot of downed state complaints arise mainly from WvW situations where half the classes routinely manage to escape back into the safety of their zerg or group after being downed near the front. Ele’s mist away, Mesmers and Thieves teleport, and warriors freaking stand back up again with a self-rally.

Seeing as ele has the only reliable way to get to safety that is not half the classes.

Thief teleport is 600 range, half the time you are still in aoe range after teleporting back.

Mesmer teleport is random, it has a decent chance of sending you towards the enemy zerg.

Who lets a warrior vengeance after they down them? In a zerg on zerg most people I know focus fire on downed people.

Bro your clearly in the minority here. I didnt say i was hitting the warrior for zero damage did I. I was doing minor damage and chilling him. Woot

Ive played with every class with at least 5 hours of pvp (some in beta). I can clearly say ours is the worst and the guardians is second

I played every class in spvp, and my main is a necro. I don’t play my engi anymore.

I gotta say : Engineer have the worse downed state of the game, on par with Ranger.

Ranger might be a bit better only because they can still use their pet when downed. When they know how to use them, they can have one more interrupt.

To those saying engineer downed state are good, tell me what an engineer can do, that other can’t?

Only the #3 of engineer is powerful, really powerful. But you never get to use it. Even with glass cannon spec, my #1 hit like a wet noodle. To the person we can do fearly good damage with #1, that’s ain’t true at all.

Mindblast from my mesmer can hit for 1.5k. Never with my Engi I got close to that. But hey, at least I can inflect random condition that might not help me at all. :P

The #2 pull, is the worse #2 in the game.

• It’s a single player interrupt. 5 of the class have AoE #2 (moving abilities count as AoE interrupt).

• Won’t work on stability/Stealth/Block/Elixir S(not sure the name, the miniature one). Mobily #2 like thief mesmer elem don’t care about those boon.

• It actually pull the ennemy toward you. You don’t want that. The #2 of necro at least create some distance. (untraited, it’s only 1 sec by the way, unlike somoene said)

The #3 explosion is really strong. I have nothing to say about it, but you don’t have the chance to use it.

A remake of #2 is all engi need. The #1 isn’t that bad, it’s just the random that can be a a pain.

Kardiamond.6952:

I gotta say : Engineer have the worse downed state of the game, on par with Ranger.

Ranger might be a bit better only because they can still use their pet when downed. When they know how to use them, they can have one more interrupt.

To those saying engineer downed state are good, tell me what an engineer can do, that other can’t?

Only the #3 of engineer is powerful, really powerful. But you never get to use it. Even with glass cannon spec, my #1 hit like a wet noodle. To the person we can do fearly good damage with #1, that’s ain’t true at all.

Mindblast from my mesmer can hit for 1.5k. Never with my Engi I got close to that. But hey, at least I can inflect random condition that might not help me at all. :P

The #2 pull, is the worse #2 in the game.

• It’s a single player interrupt. 5 of the class have AoE #2 (moving abilities count as AoE interrupt).

• Won’t work on stability/Stealth/Block/Elixir S(not sure the name, the miniature one). Mobily #2 like thief mesmer elem don’t care about those boon.

• It actually pull the ennemy toward you. You don’t want that. The #2 of necro at least create some distance. (untraited, it’s only 1 sec by the way, unlike somoene said)

The #3 explosion is really strong. I have nothing to say about it, but you don’t have the chance to use it.

A remake of #2 is all engi need. The #1 isn’t that bad, it’s just the random that can be a a pain.

I think this sums it up pretty well. #2 is just terrible and runs contrary to the point of downed state. At the very, very, least, make it like Harpoon Gun #3, like someone else suggested. At least then, engies have a chance of actually surviving AoE while down.

Engineer is the only profession that i have played that i feel it is over when i get downed in PvE.
No other profession feels this hopeless in downed while PvEing.

Quoted from another thread

The main issue is simply that some classes have a #2 skill that may interrupt a single stomp (if no stability is used), some classes have a #2 that may interrupt an entire group from stomping and then there are classes that have a #2 that will interrupt an entire group from stomping no matter what they do.

You can’t balance on the #3, because the classes that can’t reliably interrupt multiple stomps with #2 will rarely get to use it.

I don’t consider the downed state to be that important for overall balance, but in itself it is completely unbalanced from one class to the next because of this.

I wonder what the logic is behind our not being able to use the grapple line for anything else. I mean we’re obviously carrying it around with us, so why is the only time it’s useable when our butts are plastered to the ground?

Am I the only one who noticed downstate 2# does not always work? I’m talking strictly pvp, I try to time my 2# skills when I’m down according to the person stomping me, by that I mean timing it to go off last second before I get stomped. But when I do this I’ve seen the skill be used, and not interrupt the person stomping me. (And no the times I’m talking about do not involve some kind of “invuln” or stability skill I watch closely to the buffs). It seems to only happen when they are high mid air, which makes me use my skill earlier then I would like to due to thinking it’ll fail if I don’t. It does not happen everytime but enough to make me irritated.

I’m pretty fine for the whole pulling towards me deal, it’s funny doing it to someone currently using his burst set up. The simple fact it stops 1 person from stomping is “alright” with me. But when you compare this to the other class downstates its very under powered in usefulness for group situations or losing aggro against a monster in pve.

Would love to see perhaps a triple shot pull instead of a single, that would be great. (although I am certainly not thinking about pve lmao) so that’ll never happen :P

The Eng’s downed skills suck for WvW (can’t say for PvP as I don’t play there myself). The problem is the kittened #2 ability.

Yes, the Eng’s #1 downed ability does more damage than other classes, but that’s only useful in PvE. Against players who heal themselves or simply move out of range it is effectively useless.

The #2 ability is as much a liability as as benefit. It is a single instantaneous interrupt affecting a single target with a constrained range. At the same time it pulls the enemy to melee range saving them time getting to the kill – go figure! Using it effectively in WvW almost always requires changing targets from the one the #1 skill is trying to take down to rally, acquiring the right target and timing it right (c.f. the stealth downed abilities that are target and timing independent) – and if it works the enemy is now right on top of you.

The #3 ability is more powerful, but the knock down is brief and recharge very slow. Without an effective #2 Eng’s rarely get to us this, and when they do I’ve never seen it it do more in WvW than interrupt/push back an enemy for a second.

Without a credible #2 ability, downed=dead for Engineers in WvW.

ReeferKeeper.1865:

Am I the only one who noticed downstate 2# does not always work? I’m talking strictly pvp, I try to time my 2# skills when I’m down according to the person stomping me, by that I mean timing it to go off last second before I get stomped. But when I do this I’ve seen the skill be used, and not interrupt the person stomping me. (And no the times I’m talking about do not involve some kind of “invuln” or stability skill I watch closely to the buffs). It seems to only happen when they are high mid air, which makes me use my skill earlier then I would like to due to thinking it’ll fail if I don’t. It does not happen everytime but enough to make me irritated.

I’m pretty fine for the whole pulling towards me deal, it’s funny doing it to someone currently using his burst set up. The simple fact it stops 1 person from stomping is “alright” with me. But when you compare this to the other class downstates its very under powered in usefulness for group situations or losing aggro against a monster in pve.

Would love to see perhaps a triple shot pull instead of a single, that would be great. (although I am certainly not thinking about pve lmao) so that’ll never happen :P

I notice this in spvp as well, sometimes I use and it goes right through and they had no boons going at times. Sometimes as soon as I go down the skill is already used. Although I think the worst thing is the cast time (for spvp at least) without a doubt. Many times I go down and the person is already standing right on top of me and begin the stomp immediately. If this is the case I find more then not that they can get the stomp off before I even throw the grapple. This is mainly due to the animation where he puts his arm up for a second and THEN throws it, you can actually watch it wind up but it’s just so slow.

DreamyAbaddon.3265:

Everytime I sPVP and I am about to die, specially in 1v1, The enemy who wants to “Finish” me off, I intrupt him by using the Pull skill. Then when he tries to “Finish” me off again, I use skill3 to blow the enemy away from me to inturpt him again.

The timer on 3 is so long that I’m almost never in the position to do this.

After playing a particularly nasty tournament as an engineer, I though there had to be a topic around here about our downed state… and here it is.

This has been written before, but let me reinforce the idea:
The engineer’s downed state is indeed horrible. I have NEVER, in sPvP, lived long enough to use the 3 skill. No other class (maybe except ranger) as such an terrible skill set.
Pulling an enemy towards you…. why the hell would we want to do that? Maybe if the explosion skill got ready faster and the 2 skill pulled everyone in a large area it would have some use (maybe on par with the Guardian’s skill set), but even then it would be a much worse skill set than thief’s, mesmers’ and elementalist’s.

Engy downed state is just embarrassingly bad. What I don’t understand is why it stays that way, month after month.

Hire more class bugfix/balance/design devs and stop slacking please A-net.

Our damage when downed is also just laughable. Im in power/tough/prec gear with full-berserker on my trinkets.

I hit for about 350dmg with 700crits. I just downed along with a Thief, who was in similar gear as me seeing as his crits also were about double the damage of non-crits (definatly not full berserker). He hit me for twice as much as i could hit him for.

For my 700crits he did 1400crits. My damage when downed is litterally half that of a Thief. And Thief is no exception, everyone deals way more damage when downed then Engineer.