Guild Wars 2

Right now keeping it as is is hurting the class as someone new to the class might take it unaware that it literally does nothing.

It really is a shame that this trait has been broken since release and the only reason I can come with on why it isn’t fixed is that they just simply have problems with the coding in making it work. If that is the case either change the trait into something that works or remove it. Any of these are preferable to what we have now.

Seriously at this point, delete the trait and put up a “under construction” sign in it’s place.

I fear if they did that for every bugged trait that didn’t work. The list of usable traits would be fairly disheartening, for not just engineers, but most classes.

the real question is, if it work. would people really use it ? I think that’s why is not on anet’s priority list.

google.3709:

the real question is, if it work. would people really use it ? I think that’s why is not on anet’s priority list.

Yes. Emphatically, yes. 10% more crit chance is a pretty big buff for a trait if the tradeoff is being in one place (which typically for speed runs, you are – right at the boss’s face). The other options are thrown medkits, 20% toolkit reduction + cripple (which is actually really good, but what about when we don’t run toolkit?), and 10% speed buff with a few kits, which isn’t too terrible, but.. most of us would never run it when speedy kits is in the same trait line.

google.3709:

the real question is, if it work. would people really use it ? I think that’s why is not on anet’s priority list.

Honestly I’ve been wanting to use this trait for a VERY long time.

Stationary grenade kit point spamming
+Rifle Jump does some great dps on crit
+Possible flamethrower 1/2 stationary?
+ Rifle 1 stationary
+Timing big ole bomb so it gets the 10 boost
+ Mine field burst is stationary in a lot of situations and does some beefy dps if pulled off correctly
+ Grenade barrage with good crits great dps and can be used stationary from a distance

Also with this trait It would open up more amulets such as soldiers or valkyries. If you go into the firearms tree and also take this trait. Your crit chance would be a DECENT 30~% without having any crit chance in your amulet.

AsmallChicken.9634:

…someone new to the class might take it unaware that it literally does nothing…

Yup.

I met quite a few engineers that use the trait and never knew it was bugged.

I’ve been using this trait for 8 months since the game came out. Are you kitten me right now?

I just assumed it kitten worked! no reason to think otherwise!

So new patch and still no Scope fix.

They did say next patch will be for bug fixes though. Still really bad that it hasn’t been fixed for this long.

I cant believe they still didnt fix this trait.. How much Complaining and topics do we need to create to be heard or at least get some response for the plans of this useless trait.

Please comment here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/245-days/first#post1931815

I can’t believe Karl is saying its working. All it takes is a simple test in the the mists with no crit gear and base 4 crit to see if it works.

When I did it and shot a golem 200 times, I only got 10 crits. No way this trait is working.

So new update, the Scope topic in the Spvp forum got locked. Obviously they never tested if Scope was working as they only looked at the script (what happened to Q/A guys?).

They also said they’re looking to improve Scope as they say it sucked. I’ll take it, but still how would we have known if it sucks in the first place if it never even worked.

Just tested Scope in PVE. Still not working indeed.

RIP 20g I used to test.

Is this a case where it adds 10% to your base chance? So a 30% base critical chance is increased to 33% and not 40%? I think this is how the superior sigil of accuracy works. I’ve noticed that if I’m using it with two pistols I don’t stack 10% critical chance onto my base critical chance.

some one get 91% crit chance and test, that shoud put you over 100% if it works that way

lol, did they still not fix Scope? It’s been, what, nine months and this trait is still broken? lol, that’s bad. That’s really bad.

Already did that Monadproxy. Still doesn’t work. Still dont crit on occasion.

The other thread a few people posted their results indicating scope still wasn’t working. 100 tries isn’t enough. Apparently neither is 1000 or even 2000. I did some testing tonight with 4% base against golems in the mists. My results so far:

52 crits in 768 shots = 6.7%

I intend to FRAPS 10,000 shots total, merge it all together in a video tallying them up. If scope is working, I should expect around 1400 crits. If it’s not, I should be closer to 400. AN can’t explain 1000 fewer crits by RNG, can they?

NickDollahZ.5348:

Just tested Scope in PVE. Still not working indeed.

RIP 20g I used to test.

What did you spend the 20 gold on? Did you pay someone to round up monsters for you? ;p

I’m still working my way to 10,000 shots, but I changed my method a little. I’m still at 4% crit, but I’m using steady rifle so that I get more consistent shots to kill golems. Plus it’s easier to see the crits for 97 when non-crits are all 57.

Results so far:

Run 1: 7 crits in 236 shots
Run 2: 11 crits in 234 shots
Run 3: 10 crits in 234 shots
Run 4: 10 crits in 234 shots

Total: 38 crits in 938 shots = 4.05%

Not looking good.

Four more runs, and after posting this I’m off to bed. On vacation until next week, so the rest will have to wait.

Run 5: 12 crits in 233 shots
Run 6: 9 crits in 235 shots
Run 7: 10 crits in 234 shots
Run 8: 6 crits in 237 shots

Running total: 75 crits in 1877 shots = 4.00%

Let’s take a step back and try to understand how scope works. Are there any comparable traits that require/have:

a.) movement detection to fire/activate (i.e: traits that enable once movement reaches a certain value AND unaffected by external conditions)
b.) critical increase chance boost (i.e traits that do increase critical chance on a certain value/trigger)

Once identified, is it broken as well? I believe the bug here stems with the fact that the trait may not trigger properly due to the movement detection script being bugged. Just my two cents.

Edit 1: Why check the movement detection script? I think that it’s not native to the trait itself, and that it links to other classes as well. If it’s broken, then other skills with comparable stuff should be broken as well.

Edit 2: Possible breaks to movement detection script would be objects being given a non-zero vector because the game world/game plane itself is moving, thus not triggering the trait. Fixes would be to check detection of player movement on itself, and not total player movement.

Eviator.9746:

Four more runs, and after posting this I’m off to bed. On vacation until next week, so the rest will have to wait.

Run 5: 12 crits in 233 shots
Run 6: 9 crits in 235 shots
Run 7: 10 crits in 234 shots
Run 8: 6 crits in 237 shots

Running total: 75 crits in 1877 shots = 4.00%

That’s some serious work Eviator. Suggest you post these results over on the SPvP forum where ANet are far more likely to notice them.

like i said in a previous thread, just fill the front page of engi with “FIX SCOPE” threads, practially spam that kitten to get Anets attention!

Advent Leader.1083:

Once identified, is it broken as well? I believe the bug here stems with the fact that the trait may not trigger properly due to the movement detection script being bugged. Just my two cents.

I also suspect something like this. Something not directly tied to the 10% or the application of the 10%, but instead involved with character mechanics.

Zenguy.6421:

That’s some serious work Eviator. Suggest you post these results over on the SPvP forum where ANet are far more likely to notice them.

Thanks. I intend to spend a lot of time polishing my results so that it cannot be disputed, and then spreading those results where I can.

Given the dev said the script “Looked fine,” my guess is the trait is bugged in the movement mechanic. Sadly, the only way to test the nature of the bug for players would be to see if the 10% crit was applied before they moved (though, if the trigger doesn’t reset, ie it still considers you moving when you stop, then it is possible you would have to have your character never move or never have moved for it to be applied).

Honestly, this trait has been bugged since the beginning, it kinda shows the nature of anet’s development and Q/A teams. They’re more concerned with new content than fixing gameplay, which may not be their choice given it’s a company that needs to be profitable. I’ve been hoping they’ll fix the bugs and make the game something to be proud of and that’ll last, but it seems unlikely…

Oh well, I’ll try again in a few months, maybe it’ll be fun again, even if things aren’t fixed.

Hmmm… I remember something about the ALSK triggering off on movement detection, but you can still move around while keeping the buff. Need to check if detection is good, and if it is, then we can say that the trigger for the trait to turn on is the one that -is- bugged.

I just finished a 50-round test with the following conditions:

• Heart of the Mists against 1 golem
• Steady Rifle
• Base crit – 70% (runes, sigils, and traits)
• Give myself 90% crit with Med-kit 5 + Elixir B
• Keep shooting until Fury wears off.

All rounds are recorded. The golems never got near 50% health to trigger “Target the Weak”. The only other crit-adding trait was Scope.

Expected Results:

• If scope is working and additive, I should get 100% crits
• If scope is not working, I should get 90% crits

Actual Results:
I got 32 non-crits in 1023 hits. That’s 96.87% crit rate.

My new theory:
Scope works, but is multiplicative and applied to the base crit before fury. So that’s
Crit rate = 0.70 base + (0.70 * 0.10) Scope + 0.20 Fury = 97%. This is actually CrunkMagnet’s theory in the other thread (did someone come up with this before CrunkMagnet?), and my numbers validate his theory.

A test of 1000 hits isn’t definitive. If the theory is correct, you would need 91% base crit to achieve 100% crit rate with no fury. If you can get 73% base crit, you can achieve 100% crit rate with fury. Unfortunately I don’t know of a way to get to 73% or 91% base crit rate in the mists. Maybe it’s possible in PvE/WvW, but I don’t have the gold to test that.

Based upon the results of this experiment, I’m not going to continue my 10,000 hits at 4% crit experiment, because the expected results according to the above theory is that I would get 4.4% crit rate, and 0.4% in 10,000 hits (40 extra crits) is very likely within the margin of error with the RNG.

I want to give credit where credit is due. Assuming the above theory is correct, you have to give the ANet devs kudos for sticking to their guns despite the vast majority of the engineer community saying that Scope is broken.

Last comment: Scope still sucks, and in fact sucks even more than I originally thought it did. I’ll still never equip it because mobility is more important than a few extra % crit in nearly every situation.

Eviator.9746:

I just finished a 50-round test with the following conditions:

• Heart of the Mists against 1 golem
• Steady Rifle
• Base crit – 70% (runes, sigils, and traits)
• Give myself 90% crit with Med-kit 5 + Elixir B
• Keep shooting until Fury wears off.

All rounds are recorded. The golems never got near 50% health to trigger “Target the Weak”. The only other crit-adding trait was Scope.

Expected Results:

• If scope is working and additive, I should get 100% crits
• If scope is not working, I should get 90% crits

Actual Results:
I got 32 non-crits in 1023 hits. That’s 96.87% crit rate.

My new theory:
Scope works, but is multiplicative and applied to the base crit before fury. So that’s
Crit rate = 0.70 base + (0.70 * 0.10) Scope + 0.20 Fury = 97%. This is actually CrunkMagnet’s theory in the other thread (did someone come up with this before CrunkMagnet?), and my numbers validate his theory.

A test of 1000 hits isn’t definitive. If the theory is correct, you would need 91% base crit to achieve 100% crit rate with no fury. If you can get 73% base crit, you can achieve 100% crit rate with fury. Unfortunately I don’t know of a way to get to 73% or 91% base crit rate in the mists. Maybe it’s possible in PvE/WvW, but I don’t have the gold to test that.

Based upon the results of this experiment, I’m not going to continue my 10,000 hits at 4% crit experiment, because the expected results according to the above theory is that I would get 4.4% crit rate, and 0.4% in 10,000 hits (40 extra crits) is very likely within the margin of error with the RNG.

I want to give credit where credit is due. Assuming the above theory is correct, you have to give the ANet devs kudos for sticking to their guns despite the vast majority of the engineer community saying that Scope is broken.

Last comment: Scope still sucks, and in fact sucks even more than I originally thought it did. I’ll still never equip it because mobility is more important than a few extra % crit in nearly every situation.

If this is true, that’s the most convoluted, useless trait and description possibly conceived. It only affects BASE rate? What is base? Is it the 4% normal, or is it with armor addition, or is it with armor and weapon addition?

You’re saying armor and weapons affect the “base” calculation rate but not any skills. Is this not completely ridiculous in concept?

Alright. Scope works, but not as we thought it should. Mostly due to the wording of the skill description. Which makes it look bad all the same.

So ANet, either change this:
“Gain 10% critical hit chance while standing still.”

To appear more like this.
“Gain 10% increase on your base critical hit chance while standing still.”
And tone it down to an adept trait.

And you’d have saved a whole lot of threads clamoring for your attention.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

You’re saying armor and weapons affect the “base” calculation rate but not any skills. Is this not completely ridiculous in concept?

“base crit” is ambiguous I guess. As far as I can tell everything that is “static” (traits bonuses, gear, runes, sigils) is part of scope calculation, and anything that is dynamic (skill use, fury, maybe food, maybe traits that are conditional, e.g. “Target the Weak”) is not. It’s pretty time-consuming to test, and I’m not interested in trying, since it’s at most a 1-2% crit difference, and I’m never going to use Scope.

I’m not so sure about your test, primarily because someone has done some similar testing that guarantees Scope doesn’t work:

Yes, they did a similar setup to your own, where they got to a high crit rate when fury was added – approximately 88% or so. With Scope, it should be adding > 5%, and with Target the Weak, that should bump it up to 100% in total. Non-crits show up. Scope doesn’t work at all.

EDIT: Eviator, you can drastically increase your testing speed with a flamethrower. Just turn off the auto attack function, set your game message screen to the right height so only 10 results show up for damage recording, and it’s all very quick from there. I tested about 500 hits within the span of 10 minutes back when I was testing another method of Scope’s implementation.

Just wasted another 20g testing Eviator’s theory. Scope is still broken.

You need to test it numerous times before you can know for sure since Crit chance is luck based.

Kamahl.3621:

EDIT: Eviator, you can drastically increase your testing speed with a flamethrower. Just turn off the auto attack function, set your game message screen to the right height so only 10 results show up for damage recording, and it’s all very quick from there. I tested about 500 hits within the span of 10 minutes back when I was testing another method of Scope’s implementation.

Good thinking.

My theory is just a theory, and only supported by a couple 1000-hit tests, so other theories might win out. Either way, scope sucks.

Nick, that stinks. I don’t want to be partially responsible for wasting anyone else’s gold :P I’m out.

Testing with flamethrower is a good idea. I’ll have to try that with Flamethrower to be 100% sure. Although I’m pretty sure it is broken… Ill report back later.

So is Scope working?

You read this far and still had to ask? It’s broken. Always has been, likely will be until they actually decide to buckle down and do something about the Engineer’s buglist and trait issues.

Would it be too much if they try to improve it?
maybe:
Scope: Gain 10% critical hit chance, 9% damage (rifle only) and 20% range (rifle only) while standing still.

It could be balanced getting a -20% attack speed while standing still.

Just a thought

They should scrap it, and put some other trait their.

Why?

Because in a game about position, and mobility… aa trait that has you standing still to benefit just isn’t worth it, unless it’s giving you haste or something on top of a damage boost… but still, I’d rather see something else altogether.

spssh lots of things on the 20 page list they haven’t touched yet and I’m just as frustrated as you OP. Trust me. It’s annoying that it’s been almost a year now and this class still has 19 pages of bugs and design flaws to go thru and then they add design flaws to kit refinement for medkit, EG, and toolkit and removed much of our CC abilities on top of everything further breaking the gameplay because they can’t seem to realize they need to buff gadgets properly to make them more desireable.

I mean seriously how hard is it to add boons to gadgets? Permarunspeed OOC, boons that last more then 1-2 seconds when placed on the bar just like signets would heal this problem in a minute. I mean this class is an adventurer class right?

Dunno where they get this medium build on everything idea from either, we shouldn’t be medium on condi damage AND medium on burst damage it should be able to shine in all three “REAL” roles they have for this game by design, burst DPS, condi DPS, and CC because we all know now that support was never really a serious part of the trinity for them and in most cases now even condi dps is not wanted in PVE especially dungeons where it’s zerker or go home.

I can’t believe we still need this thread. We’re still talking about Scope (and the other 19 pages) after all these months…it’s ridiculous.

google.3709:

the real question is, if it work. would people really use it ? I think that’s why is not on anet’s priority list.

Yes I would clearly use it! Imagine releasing 3 discharge bolts while firing my rifle, with my berserker gear the critical chance would be perfect. Even for grenadiers, the critical hits could make a difference. They would release the grenade barage+another skill while standing still in a distance.

Maybe that’s why they don’t want to change it… they would have to nerf other things.

I have ideas of a simple trait replacement:

High Voltage
The static discharge makes one extra bounce hitting 4 targets in stead of one.

Smoking barrels
Turrets have a 15% chance to release smoke when hit

Battery packs
Turrets have a 10% to electrocute and stun when hit with a melee attack.

Glue pain
Bombs stick to enemies passing over them

Toolbelt V 2.0
Toolbelt skills have a wider radius / longer range.

Lololol new patch and still nothing.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-May-14-2013

•Fixed a bug which disabled certain traits from functioning correctly. This includes Rifled Turret Barrels, Metal Plating, and Autotool Installation.

But is not inclusive? Are we to assume all disabled traits now work? Shouldn’t patch notes list every trait that was fixed? Is it just those 3 or others as well? You’d think with all the flak Scope has been getting they’d have opted to throw that one on the list.

They wouldn’t put it on the list if it was broken. They act like kittenes, but they’re not going to lie and say that it’s been fixed if it wasn’t.

Anymras.5729:

They wouldn’t put it on the list if it was broken. They act like kittenes, but they’re not going to lie and say that it’s been fixed if it wasn’t.

Guess again. Kit Refinement still doesn’t tell you the cooldown (at least it isn’t telling me with elixir gun, grenade kit, flamethrower, or medkit).