Guild Wars 2

Flamethrower does a lot of damage nowadays, which makes it better it never fails to hit a moving boss like grenades or bombs.
Could it work in raids?

The damage output is mediocre still, even with applied force, mass momentum and juggernaut.

If you miss the raid bosses with grenades then you need to get better at using them.

Not sure why this is a question, as the standard condi engineer build for raids includes flamethrower. Napalm and incendiary ammo are the highest priority skills that standard condi engi brings (meaning they have the most damage for the cast time) along with blowtorch. The other three skills are a knockback, a blast finisher on a 6 second cooldown, and an aoe blind. Hardly raid trash tier.

I mean yeah the kit’s DPS is lower than grenades and bombs (which is why it gets dropped for slick shoes on gors), but where does the idea come from that flamethrower is bad in raids?

I believe the implication is that he wants to just camp flamethrower, hence why he mentioned failing to land grenades and bombs. I mean, if you can’t land grenades and bombs on moving targets, then you probably aren’t landing napalm a lot.

Flamethrower’s 3, 4 and toolbelt skills are insanely powerful tools for a condi engi, but camping flamethrower in raids is an awful idea.

Eastcorn.5901:

I believe the implication is that he wants to just camp flamethrower, hence why he mentioned failing to land grenades and bombs. I mean, if you can’t land grenades and bombs on moving targets, then you probably aren’t landing napalm a lot.

Flamethrower’s 3, 4 and toolbelt skills are insanely powerful tools for a condi engi, but camping flamethrower in raids is an awful idea.

Ah I see now…yeah the answer to the OP is that no, it would not work. You would spend almost all your time using autoattack since napalm has such a high cooldown. The flamethrower AA is comparable damage to the AA of bomb and grenade kits, and if you spend the entire raid using grenade/bomb autos you are playing very wrong lol.

Wahoo!

Camping a kit is never a good idea unless you are soloing where the FT might generation helps you out quite well. Also it looks kitten to use FT auto while moving with “walk” enabled like one of those Flame Legion guys. xP

However I have to agree with everyone else – but want to add that it makes a huge difference if you are power or condi. As Dinosaurs mentioned, FT AA (auto attack) deals ~same damage as bomb or grenade AA, which is around 10k DpS aka low. This is true for condi, but for power those three attacks have widely different damage numbers.

I recommend to check this thread out, it should really help you with your future decisions and knowledge about the Engineer / Scrapper skills:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/All-Skills-Damage-for-Power-and-Condi-3/first#post6001639

:3

Greez!
- Ziggy =^._.^=

Once upon a time Juggernaut gave +200 toughness. It was never meant to be an offensive weapon so much as it was to be a bunker weapon. You detered enemies with it and could get some kills but realistically it was to keep people moving not to be OP and do crazy damage.

In raids this tactic obviously will not work.

Not even with 100% crit change, 25 might and near permanent quickness?

Especially not then – the point of camping FT in open world is because you have 30% quickness uptime and ~15 stacks might with it. Compared to other solo builds wich have neither of those things, even tough their “base” damage would be higher, it’s great.

In raids however your allies help you to have 100% quickness uptime and 25 stacks might all the time, wich makes other options much stronger.

FT in raids is only used for it’s toolbelt and skill 4 and for pushing with skill 3 aswell as power for ranged damage skil 2.

guildabd.6529:

Not even with 100% crit change, 25 might and near permanent quickness?

No. While it sounds like a dream come true boon duration comes at a cost and that cost is power and the weapon doesn’t hit like a truck to begin with so …

I am still low level but I found using elixir U before hand leads to entertaining results, especially if you can stack might with the might potion, the alchemy bonus might for each potion, and the incendiary ammo.

I tested flamethrower dps vs condi dps to pvp indestructible golem (kill 3 times as fast as possible):

Flamethrower 1 spam. 10 might, some quickness and fury.
Amulet: Berserker
Rune: Scholar
3 golem kills: 63.12s

Complex condition rotation. No boons:
Armor: Rabid
Rune: Balthazar
3 golem kills: 43.26s.

Condition without napalm or bombs (those may miss a moving boss). No boons
Armor: Rabid
Rune: Balthazar
3 golem kills: 59.58s

The difference is about 4 – 20 seconds. I still believe flamethrower may win after a long time, not by doing more dps, but hitting the boss for longer time.
Not sure about sinister or viper.

guildabd.6529:

I tested flamethrower dps vs condi dps to pvp indestructible golem (kill 3 times as fast as possible):

Flamethrower 1 spam. 10 might, some quickness and fury.
Amulet: Berserker
Rune: Scholar
3 golem kills: 63.12s

Complex condition rotation. No boons:
Armor: Rabid
Rune: Balthazar
3 golem kills: 43.26s.

Condition without napalm or bombs (those may miss a moving boss). No boons
Armor: Rabid
Rune: Balthazar
3 golem kills: 59.58s

The difference is about 4 – 20 seconds. I still believe flamethrower may win after a long time, not by doing more dps, but hitting the boss for longer time.
Not sure about sinister or viper.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/All-Skills-Damage-for-Power-and-Condi-3/first#post6001639

guildabd.6529:

I tested flamethrower dps vs condi dps to pvp indestructible golem (kill 3 times as fast as possible):

Flamethrower 1 spam. 10 might, some quickness and fury.
Amulet: Berserker
Rune: Scholar
3 golem kills: 63.12s

Complex condition rotation. No boons:
Armor: Rabid
Rune: Balthazar
3 golem kills: 43.26s.

Condition without napalm or bombs (those may miss a moving boss). No boons
Armor: Rabid
Rune: Balthazar
3 golem kills: 59.58s

The difference is about 4 – 20 seconds. I still believe flamethrower may win after a long time, not by doing more dps, but hitting the boss for longer time.
Not sure about sinister or viper.

You can’t actually do these tests. The reason is that power scales much better than condition damage so PvP stats which have much lower caps make condition damage look much better. To illustrate the illusion:

1:10

1,000:1,0000

The difference between the first pair is 9.

The difference between the second pair is 9,000.

Ratio’s the same though.

You’d have to do a lot of upscaling math to get accurate numbers.