Guild Wars 2

This is something that Anet knows is a common theme. From PvP to PvE to WvW, the explosive line is something that almost every engie build taps into. But the question is, are we bothered about this? Do we want to see it change?

If you don’t then, you might as well stop reading here. But if you do, I have a few suggestions that might work.
Merge Rifle Mod and Hair Trigger
The merge of Rifle Mod and Hair Trigger will leave space for a new trait.

Create a new Trait called, Arms Expert
You can now have two weapon sets. This trait would replace Bunker Down in the GM tree, moving Bunker down into the master tree where a space needs to be filled.

Now just imagine the blissful awesomeness of Pistol/Shield and Rifle, no kits, just wits. It would be epic to see the builds that come about from that change alone.

Modify Modified Ammunition
Modified ammunition could do a lot more and could be a lot more than just a flat percentage boost. How about having it modify certain skills directly. For instance;
Poison darts now cause 4 seconds of bleed each shot alongside the poison
Static shot also causes vulnerability
Blowtorch also causes blindness
Glue shot becomes Frost shot and creates a frost field that chills targets each second for four seconds
Net shot applies 1 stack of bleed
Overcharge shot now pierces
Blunderbuss also causes torment
landing shot on Jump shot also knocks down the target for 1s

Modified ammunition and Arms Expert cannot be combined because they would both be GM traits in the Firearms line but they would both allow the Engie to focus on using builds without the need for kits. In fact, if Anet really wants to force our hands, they could add a caveat that says, when using either of those traits, the player cannot also use kits.

So that’s it for my suggestions on improving the Firearms line and the Engie in general. Credit to MonMalthias for getting me thinking about this. Let me know your thoughts guys.

On side note: A change to Acidic Elixirs is long overdue. The devs could try making it cause an Acid bomb (Elixir Gun skill) at the location it is tossed in with a cooldown of 10s. Just a thought.

The problem with engie weapons isn’t the lack of a weapon swap, it’s bad auto-attacks on both pistol and rifle and the fact that the Engineer’s baest trait (Steel-Packed Powder) pretty much only really works with the Grenade Kit.

I sugguested ways to push the engie away from reliance on that specific trait without actually nerfing total vuln but it seems people like the trait, so I guess it’s here to stay as far as the users on this specific board are concerned.

nah, just make Fragmentation Shot to have 2.350 power multiplier up from 0.350 and 15 seconds of bleeding up from 2. that would be enough

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The problem with engie weapons isn’t the lack of a weapon swap, it’s bad auto-attacks on both pistol and rifle and the fact that the Engineer’s baest trait (Steel-Packed Powder) pretty much only really works with the Grenade Kit.

I sugguested ways to push the engie away from reliance on that specific trait without actually nerfing total vuln but it seems people like the trait, so I guess it’s here to stay as far as the users on this specific board are concerned.

If it’s just about the vuln stacking then just increase the amount of stacks you can apply at one (let’s say 5stacks) and slap a 2sec cooldown on there but I really don’t think it’s about the vuln stacking. It’s about the utility of the grenade kit brought on by the variety of conditions it can apply.

It’s more or less the straight-up power acquired through the traitline as well.

Dirame.8521:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The problem with engie weapons isn’t the lack of a weapon swap, it’s bad auto-attacks on both pistol and rifle and the fact that the Engineer’s baest trait (Steel-Packed Powder) pretty much only really works with the Grenade Kit.

I sugguested ways to push the engie away from reliance on that specific trait without actually nerfing total vuln but it seems people like the trait, so I guess it’s here to stay as far as the users on this specific board are concerned.

If it’s just about the vuln stacking then just increase the amount of stacks you can apply at one (let’s say 5stacks) and slap a 2sec cooldown on there but I really don’t think it’s about the vuln stacking. It’s about the utility of the grenade kit brought on by the variety of conditions it can apply.

Blind and chill? Always nice but I don’t think anyone is really running grenades in dungeons just for that.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dirame.8521:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The problem with engie weapons isn’t the lack of a weapon swap, it’s bad auto-attacks on both pistol and rifle and the fact that the Engineer’s baest trait (Steel-Packed Powder) pretty much only really works with the Grenade Kit.

I sugguested ways to push the engie away from reliance on that specific trait without actually nerfing total vuln but it seems people like the trait, so I guess it’s here to stay as far as the users on this specific board are concerned.

If it’s just about the vuln stacking then just increase the amount of stacks you can apply at one (let’s say 5stacks) and slap a 2sec cooldown on there but I really don’t think it’s about the vuln stacking. It’s about the utility of the grenade kit brought on by the variety of conditions it can apply.

Blind and chill? Always nice but I don’t think anyone is really running grenades in dungeons just for that.

And poison, if you’re into that.

However, it’s mostly about abusing the fact that you throw 2-3 at a time, with each counting as a separate hit.

Each one applies vulnerability. (Steel Packed Powder)
Each one has a 50% chance on crit to apply vulnerability (Precise Sights)
Each one has a 15% chance on hit to apply bleed. (Shrapnel)
Each one has a 33% chance on crit to apply bleed. (Sharpshooter)

And that’s not even taking sigils into account. Sure, bombs can do this too, but only at 1 chance per second. Grenades really take advantage of these traits better.

Stallerenox.1295:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dirame.8521:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The problem with engie weapons isn’t the lack of a weapon swap, it’s bad auto-attacks on both pistol and rifle and the fact that the Engineer’s baest trait (Steel-Packed Powder) pretty much only really works with the Grenade Kit.

I sugguested ways to push the engie away from reliance on that specific trait without actually nerfing total vuln but it seems people like the trait, so I guess it’s here to stay as far as the users on this specific board are concerned.

If it’s just about the vuln stacking then just increase the amount of stacks you can apply at one (let’s say 5stacks) and slap a 2sec cooldown on there but I really don’t think it’s about the vuln stacking. It’s about the utility of the grenade kit brought on by the variety of conditions it can apply.

Blind and chill? Always nice but I don’t think anyone is really running grenades in dungeons just for that.

And poison, if you’re into that.

However, it’s mostly about abusing the fact that you throw 2-3 at a time, with each counting as a separate hit.

Each one applies vulnerability. (Steel Packed Powder)
Each one has a 50% chance on crit to apply vulnerability (Precise Sights)
Each one has a 15% chance on hit to apply bleed. (Shrapnel)
Each one has a 33% chance on crit to apply bleed. (Sharpshooter)

And that’s not even taking sigils into account. Sure, bombs can do this too, but only at 1 chance per second. Grenades really take advantage of these traits better.

You could use the solution I suggested for SPP for all of these. But I didn’t know you guys were talking PvE anyway. It’s harder in PvE because it’s all about numbers. What does the fastest damage with the least amount of rotations and doesn’t get you nuked instantly.

I don’t believe there is a scenario where nerfing grenades will cause “the best DPS spec” to stop being a thing. People would just move on to the next one. Best option is to create a good alternative. Which is what Anet should do.

Stallerenox.1295:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dirame.8521:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The problem with engie weapons isn’t the lack of a weapon swap, it’s bad auto-attacks on both pistol and rifle and the fact that the Engineer’s baest trait (Steel-Packed Powder) pretty much only really works with the Grenade Kit.

I sugguested ways to push the engie away from reliance on that specific trait without actually nerfing total vuln but it seems people like the trait, so I guess it’s here to stay as far as the users on this specific board are concerned.

If it’s just about the vuln stacking then just increase the amount of stacks you can apply at one (let’s say 5stacks) and slap a 2sec cooldown on there but I really don’t think it’s about the vuln stacking. It’s about the utility of the grenade kit brought on by the variety of conditions it can apply.

Blind and chill? Always nice but I don’t think anyone is really running grenades in dungeons just for that.

And poison, if you’re into that.

However, it’s mostly about abusing the fact that you throw 2-3 at a time, with each counting as a separate hit.

Each one applies vulnerability. (Steel Packed Powder)
Each one has a 50% chance on crit to apply vulnerability (Precise Sights)
Each one has a 15% chance on hit to apply bleed. (Shrapnel)
Each one has a 33% chance on crit to apply bleed. (Sharpshooter)

And that’s not even taking sigils into account. Sure, bombs can do this too, but only at 1 chance per second. Grenades really take advantage of these traits better.

That’s exactly what I said before. Grenades are too good because of the ridiculous multiplicative effect they have on pretty much every trait that depends on attack rate.

Dirame.8521:

Stallerenox.1295:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Dirame.8521:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The problem with engie weapons isn’t the lack of a weapon swap, it’s bad auto-attacks on both pistol and rifle and the fact that the Engineer’s baest trait (Steel-Packed Powder) pretty much only really works with the Grenade Kit.

I sugguested ways to push the engie away from reliance on that specific trait without actually nerfing total vuln but it seems people like the trait, so I guess it’s here to stay as far as the users on this specific board are concerned.

If it’s just about the vuln stacking then just increase the amount of stacks you can apply at one (let’s say 5stacks) and slap a 2sec cooldown on there but I really don’t think it’s about the vuln stacking. It’s about the utility of the grenade kit brought on by the variety of conditions it can apply.

Blind and chill? Always nice but I don’t think anyone is really running grenades in dungeons just for that.

And poison, if you’re into that.

However, it’s mostly about abusing the fact that you throw 2-3 at a time, with each counting as a separate hit.

Each one applies vulnerability. (Steel Packed Powder)
Each one has a 50% chance on crit to apply vulnerability (Precise Sights)
Each one has a 15% chance on hit to apply bleed. (Shrapnel)
Each one has a 33% chance on crit to apply bleed. (Sharpshooter)

And that’s not even taking sigils into account. Sure, bombs can do this too, but only at 1 chance per second. Grenades really take advantage of these traits better.

You could use the solution I suggested for SPP for all of these. But I didn’t know you guys were talking PvE anyway. It’s harder in PvE because it’s all about numbers. What does the fastest damage with the least amount of rotations and doesn’t get you nuked instantly.

I don’t believe there is a scenario where nerfing grenades will cause “the best DPS spec” to stop being a thing. People would just move on to the next one. Best option is to create a good alternative. Which is what Anet should do.

You can make one weapon the best DPS and another best utility, etc. It’s like how staff ele is the best DPS but LH ele is best for support and burst.

That’s what I was suggesting in the other thread, I wanted to make FT the best support (best might and vuln stacking) and bombs the best raw DPS (but bad vuln stacking), with grenades coming up somewhere in the middle It may have been a bit confusing because I was also calling for overall nerfs because engineer DPS is way too high atm especially considering all the other stuff they can do concurrently with DPS.

Dirame.8521:

Merge Rifle Mod and Hair Trigger
The merge of Rifle Mod and Hair Trigger will leave space for a new trait.

I play a HGH Elixir Rifle build so I never have any points in Explosives, but I 100% support this. Extra range is VITAL to using the rifle without a kit, as it will give you proper range as well as letting you hit maximum damage on Blunderbuss easier.

One of the ideas I’ve had for attacking that 30/6 points in Explosives trifecta of Incendiary Powder, Steel Packed Powder and Grenadier is condition application priority. The combination is so effective at generating condis and self-covering that landing a single GK skill can apply something in the order of 3-4 conditions; which is quite insane.

The problem is that the self-covering is only there because of application priority.

It seems as though Incendiary Powder’s Burning procs are applied first, THEN any other condis from other crit procs or traits i.e. Sharpshooter from Firearms 5 or Shrapnel from Explosives 10 THEN the condi application from the GK skill itself.

In a 1v1 situation, where condis like Blind/Confusion or Poison or Immob/Cripple from the Pistol set or Bleeding and Vulnerability from the Rifle set are the rule, Incendiary Powder again has first application priority, making condi coverage trivial.

In the case of re-application, IP procs are almost always applied first before other condis, which again, makes IP procs very difficult to counteract short of extremely frequent cleansing.

You can test it out yourself in the Mists and it really shows why IP is so dominant in both WvW and PvP modes of play – with extreme potential to self-cover Burning it becomes difficult to remove. Making Burning from IP be applied second last to last would thus require landing additional skills – thus restoring the conventional application → cover pressure of other condi builds. Most importantly, I feel that Steel Packed Powder should have the Vulnerability application shifted forward in priority to perhaps first or second; thus reducing its condi cover potential.

These changes do not alter the overall condi DPS of engi and indeed TTK would be effectively the same as neither duration nor application have been touched. It does, however, alter matchups like Engi v Mesmer or Engi v Guardian or Engi v Thief towards the less favourable for the engineer, as these classes often rely on utility-based cleansing rather than trait based (Ele, Warrior) where the matchup is essentially unchanged.

When all is said and done, however, I feel that having such procs in the game are toxic to the concept of counterplay, as these RNG mechanics muddle the readability of the game and introduce unnecessary complexity whilst offering only minimal increases in depth of play. It is these RNG mechanics that, whilst a staple of the MMO and RPG genre, fly so far in the face of good PVP design that keeping these vestiges is proving to be doing more harm than good in the long run.?

Reposted from the youtube comment thread:

I think the main aim of Modified Ammunition should be to make its effect more enticing to those looking to forgo Explosives entirely – or at least, have its effect in such a way that the added condition duration of Explosives does not have an excessively strong benefit when combined with Modified Ammo. I can see Modified Ammo + Incendiary Powder being pretty silly, for example, when combining them in a P/P or P/S build.

Adding conditions via a trait is a relatively simple way to add pressure and in the Precision/Condition Damage line it does make sense, but I feel that effects like Jump Shot causing Knockdown or snares is a better way to go.

I feel that adding utility rather than damage is better – whilst things like Bleed on Net Shot or Vulnerability on Static Shot don’t really alter the gameplay of the weapon – they just add condi cover. That said, it’s a great idea to expand upon.

- Static Shot could Daze the first target struck, and now you have a rupt + Blind if you mistime, making SS an extremely strong defensive skill. Pity Engineer doesn’t have any on-Interrupt triggers – its CC potential is baseline for many builds.

- Poison Dart Volley could act like Necro Scepter 3 (Feast of Corruption), dealing bonus damage per shot per condition on the target, and extending the duration of damaging condis on target by 2% per hit. This makes PDV less of a condi cover skill and more as an “execution” skill for condi engi. Alternatively, Modified Ammo could make every dart a 100% projectile finisher, which lends PDV to comboing with Fire fields and the like.

- Glue Shot simply becoming a Frost Field would be enough, even without pulsing Chill. P/P sorely lacks Fields and Finishers and the potential for Frost Armour adds defense to an otherwise 100% offensive set.
As for Rifle:

- Net Shot hitting should chain into “Reel it in” – an effect practically identical to Ele Dagger Earth 3 chain skill for a second gap closer. The longer range of Net Shot and thus the longer leap range does pose problems with the leap/latency desync issues though.

- Blunderbuss should chain into “Double tap” – a second blast for more damage at the cost of 50% longer cooldown on Blunderbuss for a true “execution” skill that doesn’t lie within the landing damage of Jump Shot. Alternatively, it could instead deal bonus damage or be guaranteed to crit disabled targets – Immobilise/Hard CC’d targets – for that combo potential.

- OC Shot is extremely strong already and making Modified Ammo buff this skill is risky. I’ve always felt that OC Shot should be split into 2 chain skills, with the Snare-break + Self KB being the first of the chain and the Launch being the second of the chain. It would be an overall nerf, but if this was the baseline OC Shot then the Modified Ammo trait could replace the self KB with a straight retreat – Evade frames optional. I feel that AOE Ranged launches – especially those that pierce – would have negative consequences for the rest of the Rifle toolkit as that kind of power level especially with regards to downstate control is ridiculous.
- I really want a KD on the Jump Shot landing. Too often I feel that I need to gap close enough using things like Rocket Kick before using Jump Shot as Blunderbuss doesn’t have the execution impact that the 1.9 Coefficient of both hits of Jump shot provide. Adding a KD sets up so many plays like JS -> Blunderbuss that going kitless becomes viable in its own right.?

MonMalthias.4763:

Reposted from the youtube comment thread:

I think the main aim of Modified Ammunition should be to make its effect more enticing to those looking to forgo Explosives entirely – or at least, have its effect in such a way that the added condition duration of Explosives does not have an excessively strong benefit when combined with Modified Ammo. I can see Modified Ammo + Incendiary Powder being pretty silly, for example, when combining them in a P/P or P/S build.

Fun fact: When it was first introduced, Modified Ammunition used to affect pistol and rifle damage only. People said it was too limiting however, so Anet made it apply to all engi weapons and kits, and so the 6/6/0/0/2 (or 6/6/0/2/0) build was born.

Adding conditions via a trait is a relatively simple way to add pressure and in the Precision/Condition Damage line it does make sense, but I feel that effects like Jump Shot causing Knockdown or snares is a better way to go.

I feel that adding utility rather than damage is better – whilst things like Bleed on Net Shot or Vulnerability on Static Shot don’t really alter the gameplay of the weapon – they just add condi cover. That said, it’s a great idea to expand upon.

- Static Shot could Daze the first target struck, and now you have a rupt + Blind if you mistime, making SS an extremely strong defensive skill. Pity Engineer doesn’t have any on-Interrupt triggers – its CC potential is baseline for many builds.

- Poison Dart Volley could act like Necro Scepter 3 (Feast of Corruption), dealing bonus damage per shot per condition on the target, and extending the duration of damaging condis on target by 2% per hit. This makes PDV less of a condi cover skill and more as an “execution” skill for condi engi. Alternatively, Modified Ammo could make every dart a 100% projectile finisher, which lends PDV to comboing with Fire fields and the like.

- Glue Shot simply becoming a Frost Field would be enough, even without pulsing Chill. P/P sorely lacks Fields and Finishers and the potential for Frost Armour adds defense to an otherwise 100% offensive set.

I think a lot of the problems with p/x is just how underwhelming condi builds currently are in most PvE situations, which is why you get a lot of people wanting to increase the base damage of pistol skills. It’s true that it’s a rather “boring” way to buff the weapons, but the simple fact is that’s probably exactly what they need.

However, +1 to the idea an on-interrupt trigger trait or two for Engineer, and a field for glue shot (frost doesn’t seem to fit in my mind though… maybe chaos?)

As for Rifle:

Had to cut this part, post was too long >_<

I play a Rifle Static Discharge build for sPvP and open world PvE, and I really feel that, much like flamethrower is now (and will no longer be after the next balance patch), rifle is a damage buff to it’s autoattack and another finisher (or some other effect) away from being a legit alternative to nades and bombs. Blunderbuss + point blank Jump Shot + OC shot is already very good burst damage, (I mean, CoF path 2? I use that combo to kill the flame acolytes in the final battle with no rifle traits, and I kill them faster than I would with my fully speced grenades) the weapon just lacks a little extra something to make it worth sticking to the majority of the time, rather than something you swap to for the burst and then swap back to something else while the cooldowns reset.

I agree that Hair Trigger and Rifle Mod should be combined, but I don’t think that those traits are the ones to put in it’s place. The thing is that if you want true condi, you are limited to a few things:

1. Pistols
2. Grenades
3. Bombs

If you don’t have at least one of those, you aren’t condi. Thing is, the traits for these are all stuck up in explosives (Forceful explosives, Short Fuse, Incendiary Powder, Grenadier, Shrapnel). The only good traits for pure condi builds are Sharpshoot (5 point minor) and hair trigger (Adept trait). Thus there’s no reason to go into that line!

There needs to be a trait worth taking that makes you better at applying conditions, maybe even with a different kit! How could would it be to have a condi build that is focused around the flamethrower or elixir gun?

I think there’s also a lot of vomit worthy traits in Firearms that could use some fixing:

1. Coated Bullets – Affects only one skill. Literally one skill. The poison doesn’t even last long, if it doesn’t just randomly miss anyways.
2. Juggernaut – Encourages sticking to one kit, which goes against good engi play.
3. Napalm Specialist – Runes of Balthazar makes this obsolete. It’s also deep in a line no one wants to touch.

I’d do stuff like this:

1. Coated Bullets – Pistol and Rifle skills cause bleeding for 1s.
2. Juggernaut – You move 25% faster while using flamethrower. Gain might (15s) whenever you use a flamethrower skill.
3. Napalm Specialist – Burning duration of flamethrower skills is increased (33%). Napalm is now a circle (240 radius) and causes crippled.
4. New Trait Deadly Formula – Elixir Gun’s skills cause poison (1s) when hitting foes.

Juggernaut + Napalm Specialist grant a flamethrower user the snare and speed they need to keep up and erase the need for speedy kits which makes you awkwardly swap in and out of the kit.

Coated bullets makes engis less reliant on explosives for condi damage and also less reliant on pistols and Rifle becomes not just a hybrid/power weapon.

Deadly formula attempts to bring Elixir gun more into fire arms and give it a new condi role. Acid bomb is a great way to get poison on enemies who are downed and Fumigate can stack up a good 10+ seconds quickly. Not to mention the auto attack will cause bleeding, poisoned and weakness all in one. Pretty strong.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

I agree that Hair Trigger and Rifle Mod should be combined, but I don’t think that those traits are the ones to put in it’s place. The thing is that if you want true condi, you are limited to a few things:

1. Pistols
2. Grenades
3. Bombs

If you don’t have at least one of those, you aren’t condi. Thing is, the traits for these are all stuck up in explosives (Forceful explosives, Short Fuse, Incendiary Powder, Grenadier, Shrapnel). The only good traits for pure condi builds are Sharpshoot (5 point minor) and hair trigger (Adept trait). Thus there’s no reason to go into that line!

There needs to be a trait worth taking that makes you better at applying conditions, maybe even with a different kit! How could would it be to have a condi build that is focused around the flamethrower or elixir gun?

I think there’s also a lot of vomit worthy traits in Firearms that could use some fixing:

1. Coated Bullets – Affects only one skill. Literally one skill. The poison doesn’t even last long, if it doesn’t just randomly miss anyways.
2. Juggernaut – Encourages sticking to one kit, which goes against good engi play.
3. Napalm Specialist – Runes of Balthazar makes this obsolete. It’s also deep in a line no one wants to touch.

I’d do stuff like this:

1. Coated Bullets – Pistol and Rifle skills cause bleeding for 1s.
2. Juggernaut – You move 25% faster while using flamethrower. Gain might (15s) whenever you use a flamethrower skill.
3. Napalm Specialist – Burning duration of flamethrower skills is increased (33%). Napalm is now a circle (240 radius) and causes crippled.
4. New Trait Deadly Formula – Elixir Gun’s skills cause poison (1s) when hitting foes.

Juggernaut + Napalm Specialist grant a flamethrower user the snare and speed they need to keep up and erase the need for speedy kits which makes you awkwardly swap in and out of the kit.

Coated bullets makes engis less reliant on explosives for condi damage and also less reliant on pistols and Rifle becomes not just a hybrid/power weapon.

Deadly formula attempts to bring Elixir gun more into fire arms and give it a new condi role. Acid bomb is a great way to get poison on enemies who are downed and Fumigate can stack up a good 10+ seconds quickly. Not to mention the auto attack will cause bleeding, poisoned and weakness all in one. Pretty strong.

I don’t think some of the changes you suggest would really flip the script into FT/EG favour.

Deadly Formula is a good idea though.
Coated Bullets; I don’t see how that would change things
Juggernaut; Out done by Speedy Kits but the gain might on skills use is a cool idea
Napalm specialist; I’d have that do a Flamestrike at the target’s location when burning is applied to the target and you gain blind after you cause the Flamestrike.

I like the idea of a weapon swap, however since pistol AA sux so bad as Zerk, we need a mace as a weapon wich would just be like the tool kit and then you are where you were at the beginning.

Foefaller.1082:

MonMalthias.4763:

Reposted from the youtube comment thread:snip

Fun fact: When it was first introduced, Modified Ammunition used to affect pistol and rifle damage only. People said it was too limiting however, so Anet made it apply to all engi weapons and kits, and so the 6/6/0/0/2 (or 6/6/0/2/0) build was born.

Having played the game since launch, I am fully aware of what Modified Ammunition’s original incarnation did. The Dhuumfire patch introduced or emphasised a lot of anti-fun mechanics without much counterplay; and I count Modified Ammunition amongst them.

The problem with Modified Ammunition is that it doesn’t do anything in terms of adding utility, or different functionality, or pretty much whatever is required to make Engineers actually favour their mainhands more. It’s just a straight damage boost. What’s worse is that the boost procs better off of Pistol mainhand as there is a lot more condition diversity therein. The frontloaded damage of Rifle does not apply conditions unless taking Sitting Duck or crit-proc condi traits, which makes traiting for a proper Rifle build running MA problematic without also running Explosives; since BK and GK are the better condi application tools. It is therefore the logical progression for PVE players to gravitate towards 6/6/0/0/2.

Having dug up my own old thread, I’m reminded of what is needed to bring Rifle and Pistol to the forefront and by extension, de-emphasising Engineer’s staid reliance upon Explosives.

The key points from that thread boil down to:

• Autoattack improvements, to reward Engineers for taking the risk of taking their ranged weapon (Rifle, Pistol) into sub-600 range without then itching to switch to Kits as Kits cover this range better.
  • By that, I mean making Rifle 1 autoattack chain to deal damage and cleave targets more powerfully as the gap closes; and
  • To reduce or eliminate the aftercast on Pistol 1 to make it more efficient at stacking Bleeds by itself without having to rely on Elixir Gun 1
  • Streamlining traits to normalise damage output and CDR into the Master Tier as it is with most other classes in game
  • Removing the crit-procs of Firearms 1 and several Master traits to instead emphasise closing the gap and being rewarded with bonus damage, Bleed and Vulnerability stacks
  • Using or creating Master or Grandmaster traits that alter functionality of skills that allow Pistol, Rifle and Shield to stand on their own in a kit-less build with an emphasis on Utility to reduce the opportunity cost of 4 lost cooldowns when a Kit is not run.

Reading some of the other posts in this thread it is heartening that at least some of that discussion some 12 months ago has entered some of the (forum-going) Engineer consciousness. I still believe that Engineer has significant room to grow within its design; even now, 2 years post release and when most ground has been trod and re-trod, Anet can re-invigorate the profession by offering an alternative playstyle that is no worse or better than running kits, whilst retaining the option to forgo mainhand weapon functionality and emphasise Kit usage. In my mind that would be the best of both worlds and allow Engineer build diversity to flourish beyond 6 in Explosives.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

I agree that Hair Trigger and Rifle Mod should be combined, but I don’t think that those traits are the ones to put in it’s place. The thing is that if you want true condi, you are limited to a few things:

1. Pistols
2. Grenades
3. Bombs

If you don’t have at least one of those, you aren’t condi. Thing is, the traits for these are all stuck up in explosives (Forceful explosives, Short Fuse, Incendiary Powder, Grenadier, Shrapnel). The only good traits for pure condi builds are Sharpshoot (5 point minor) and hair trigger (Adept trait). Thus there’s no reason to go into that line!

I think that there’s actually plenty for condi Engineers within the Firearms line, it’s just that so much of it is predicated upon RNG that Engineers don’t take it. In addition, Incendiary Powder alone makes a condi build for Engineers, as Engi cannot stack bleeds, nor apply poison, nor stack up Torment as efficiently as the classes with inbuilt condi functionality in their design (Necro, Ranger). That alone ensures at least 4 in Explosives, not Bombs, not Grenades.

Onto some of your proposals:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Coated Bullets – Pistol and Rifle skills cause bleeding for 1s.

• I don’t think that a Master tier trait for any class, in any line, should “only” provide Bleeding for 1 second. In the absence of traits that increase bleed duration and autoattacks and weapon skills that stack up Bleed very efficiently, 1 stack of extra Bleed by itself for such a short duration does very little.
• That being said, making Coated Bullets the “Incendiary Powder” equivalent for Engineer in the Firearms line might have some merit. How about this?
  • Coated Bullets – Bleed duration is increased by 20%. For the next 5 attacks after you use a Toolbelt Skill, inflict 1 stack of Bleed for 3 seconds. In the event multiple foes are hit, Bleed is applied randomly. (as with Incendiary Powder and GK/BK)
  • This trait makes it so that players are able to “Bleed burst” after using a Toolbelt skill. Whilst it sounds infinitely abusable with Flamethrower, it also is easy to avoid. A strong telegraph, such as tinting projectiles with a red trail (and FT1 with red haze instead of the bright yellow) will be needed.
  • The single target focus is to reduce its power level, however, if multiple targets are to be hit, then only 3 attacks should be empowered to Bleed – basically it turns FT, BK and GK into a mini-Shrapnel Grenade, which isn’t very efficient by itself.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Juggernaut – You move 25% faster while using flamethrower. Gain might (15s) whenever you use a flamethrower skill.

• I like the concept behind this new Juggernaut in that it’s basically a better version (due to IMS) of Pyromancer’s Puissance.

• This is actually a really strong buff to the Juggernaut trait, as you are now no longer capped at 6 stacks before Boon Duration but instead limited only by cast time and Cooldown.

• I think it works out to be ~11 casts (6 FT1, 2 FT2, 3 of FT3,4,5 = 11) in a 15 second window for 11 stacks of Might whereas original Juggernaut would peak at 6 stacks (15/3 sec interval = 5 + 1 instant on swap = 6). With Strength Rune providing a ludicrous +45% duration, it’s easy to sit at ~16 stacks before Boon Duration.

• Adding Battle Sigil’s 9 stacks at 45% Might Duration means that 25 Might is now easily attainable assuming casting on cooldown before any Boon Duration or even Enhance Performance. That’s pretty nuts; and this alone would more than double Juggernaut’s efficiency even before the Toughness or IMS. Something would have to give at that point.

• I think Juggernaut just needs its own FT unique functionality besides Might stacking. Given that Burning is Engineer’s primary condi DPS, why not make it so that Smoke Vent, Air Blast and Flame Blast also apply Burning to increase FT’s Burning uptime? Could make it 2 seconds; then increase the Burning of FT1 from 1 to 2 seconds. The combo with Air Blast to extend Burning duration by 2 more seconds would allow for very long durations indeed – but also allows for counterplay as there is little condi diversity within FT1 itself.

• A sillier implementation would be to instead make Juggernaut apply burning to oneself for 1 second every 2 seconds; whilst burning foes in a 180 PBAoE for 2 seconds every 2 seconds. The synergy with FT1 should be self-evident. Keep the Might stacking so you’re doing more damage to yourself the longer the FT is held. Add a passive buff of 10% bonus damage to Burning Foes. Now we’re cooking with gas, and also, we are cooking. Stack with Runes of the Flame Legion for a silly 17% damage boost. Added to the 10% base boost of FT1, we may finally see FT1 deal “good damage”.

MonMalthias.4763:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

1. Juggernaut – You move 25% faster while using flamethrower. Gain might (15s) whenever you use a flamethrower skill.

• I like the concept behind this new Juggernaut in that it’s basically a better version (due to IMS) of Pyromancer’s Puissance.

• This is actually a really strong buff to the Juggernaut trait, as you are now no longer capped at 6 stacks before Boon Duration but instead limited only by cast time and Cooldown.

The main intent of the IMS is to reduce the need for Speedy kits, thus freeing up 2 trait points. I find that it’s hard to justify going too far into inventions and firearms for damage builds unless it’s:

1. PvE where defense doesn’t matter
2. A pure tank build, like turret engis, which go 30 into inventions all the time.

Those two extra points allow for spread like 6/4/0/4/0! Hell, if you truly make a flamethrower build, you could even do 4/6/0/4/0!

I also find that the main thing that a PvP Flamethrower user lacks is snare and IMS. The traits I suggested allows for these to be in house and pretty strong. My goal with those buffs is not just to make the firearms line better, but allow for flamethrower to be the only kit on an effective PvP player’s bar.

In reference to the might stacking thing, you’d only gain might stacks in combat and you’d have to be pretty mindlessly spamming your skills to attain so much might. This also doesn’t account for counter pressure applied to you, time spent dodging and time spent using other skills and weapons. Overall, I think the might stacks will work out to be around the same.

Regarding Juggernaut, what about a way to give it back a kind of its initial functionality?
In origin, the trait was supposed to be:
You move 50% slower while wielding the flamethrower, but gain stability and 200 toughness.
Clearly an unlimited stability ends up being too strong for pvp purposes, so what if we changed it to:
While wielding the flamethrower you gain 200 toughness; if affected by a control skill, you gain two stacks of defiance (as long as the flamethrower is equipped).
(an alternative may be to give a single stack of defiance, if two would end up too strong for a master trait, and raise toughness a bit).

If we want to make it particularly flashy and evocative, it may be changed to a grandmaster trait again and make it:
While wielding the flamethrower you move 33% slower, but physical and condition damage is reduced by 20% and if affected by a control skill you gain two stacks of defiance (as long as the flamethrower is equipped).

I always wished for Modified Ammunition to: “Increase your damage by 2% for each condition on your target. Increases damage by an additional 2% when wielding a Pistol in your off hand.”

Wolf.5816:

I always wished for Modified Ammunition to: “Increase your damage by 2% for each condition on your target. Increases damage by an additional 2% when wielding a Pistol in your off hand.”

Well Malthias and I agree that a direct boost in damage isn’t adequate to get people to use that trait. A more functionality driven change would really give Modified Ammunition the attributes it need to drive people towards it.

In other words, new builds that don’t require explosives.

Dirame.8521:

Wolf.5816:

I always wished for Modified Ammunition to: “Increase your damage by 2% for each condition on your target. Increases damage by an additional 2% when wielding a Pistol in your off hand.”

Well Malthias and I agree that a direct boost in damage isn’t adequate to get people to use that trait. A more functionality driven change would really give Modified Ammunition the attributes it need to drive people towards it.

In other words, new builds that don’t require explosives.

I must admit I am wearing the biased blinders for this trait. As I have always wished to make a competitive Power Pistol/Pistol Build as well as a Condition Rifle build but this trait (with my suggested buff) would simply help my agenda Heh.

I know it’s foolish to bother with changing the intended roles of a weapon. But it’s my opinion that there just simply shouldn’t be a defined role for a weapon. Particularly for a Profession that only has 2, I think that weapons should be more versatile letting your traits/skills/gear/sigils/tactics define how your weapon performs.

That being said, I am aware that Pistol is a condition weapon. However it has the aptitude for Power based applications, it just needs a little Push.

At least from my experiments the only way to make a viable Power Pistol/Pistol build would be to monopolize in the fact it has more hits per second that the Rifle. Playing on this fact I have had some great success with Proc based effects such as Sigil of Air and Sigil of Fire. This coupled with swarms of mediocre conditions act as a kind of hybrid yet predominately Power based build. The conditions, although lacking in hard damage, act as utility effects and help soften your targets up while helping you survive.

This coupled with some wisely chosen Utilities add for a very unique play style. All it needs is access to increased sustain. This is why I feel Modified Ammunition is a prime candidate for this. While also bringing up some promising hybridization condition based builds for those who would have it.

Alternatively, I agree with you that simply raising numbers is a poor route to go as I wish traits had more of an impact both visually and literally to your build. Changing the way the mechanics function.

At any rate, I’m just a drunken old dog Engineer who simply wants his day.

On the regard of improving Kitless Build diversity-

Infused Precision would make an excellent candidate for change. Perhaps if:
•Infused Precision was renamed to Infused Momentum: Critical hits have a chance of increasing your run speed for 3 seconds. This effect stacks 5%/15%/25%/33%/50% On the Fifth stack of Infused Momentum you gain 3 seconds of Quickness and lose all stacks of Infused Momentum.(10 second Cooldown)

Coated Bullets could also use a review. Perhaps if:

• Coated Bullets: Your Pistol Shots pierce, in addition Some of your pistol skills have bonus effects:
-Static Shot: Bounces an additional time.
-Blowtorch: Is now Unblockable and deals bonus damage to foes with Protection.
-Glue Shot: Will now detonate causing damage and inflicting Burning on nearby foes when striking a target suffering from Burning. (Also creates a Combo Field:Fire)

I agree that Hair Trigger should be fused with Rifle Mods. The new Rifle Mod could be:
• Rifle Mod: Your Rifle Skills now have bonus effects when hitting foes at 200 range:
-Hip Shot:Inflicts Bleeding
-Net shot: Dazes for 0.5 seconds.
-Blunderbuss:Applies 5 stacks of Vulnerability
-Overcharged Shot: inflicts 3 stacks of Confusion.
-Jump Shot: Inflicts Blind

I’d also like to see a Trait that would do something along the lines of: After your opponent Reaches 5 Conditions from you or a source you control they explode after 3 seconds consuming your applied conditions dealing X damage for each condition on them at the time of detonation.
(Damage per condition: 5%)

This would create an alternative and interesting way to play with conditions. You would have to manage them in the sense that keeping several high damage conditions to burn them down or try to load them up for a burst but risking losing your condition pressure if mitigated. Giving it, a three second “primer” count down would introduce some very interesting counter play as well. As a foe realizing they have a chemical reaction about to erupt on them would make them rush to attempt to cleanse the self softening the blow. Or attempt to mitigate the blast with damage reduction/invulnerabilities essentially giving you a free cleanse at the Engineers expense.

Preferably This trait would effectively only remove your applied conditions. Being that I am not a PvE player I am sure this trait would be met with much hesitation with the min/max crowd. But if at all possible- allowing it to, for example function like:

Your target has 5 bleeds on him, you contributed to 1 of those bleeds so at the end of the Detonation they would be left with 4 Bleeds that were applied by a source other than your own.

Warning: Math below. Sources for frame data (Aftercast) and coefficients courtesy of Casia.

Wolf.5816:

On the regard of improving Kitless Build diversity-

Infused Precision would make an excellent candidate for change. Perhaps if:
•Infused Precision was renamed to Infused Momentum: Critical hits have a chance of increasing your run speed for 3 seconds. This effect stacks 5%/15%/25%/33%/50% On the Fifth stack of Infused Momentum you gain 3 seconds of Quickness and lose all stacks of Infused Momentum.(10 second Cooldown)

• Quickness is absolutely awful on Engineer unless running BK, GK or FT, where the strong autoattacks inherent would hardly make Engineers flock towards Mainhands. In my opinion, this change would only reinforce reliance on kits. In addition, Engineer is already plagued by RNG, from traits in Firearms to IP to Elixirs. I hardly think that this is good design.

• A few calculations:
  • Hip Shot: In a 10 second period, assuming Hip shot is the only skill cast, (0.75+0.15 after cast = 0.9 sec per cast); one can cast 11 Hip shots for 11 chances to crit. In your average ~40-50% crit rate Zerker Engi build +/- points in Firearms depending on gear breakpoints, let’s assume perfect statistical crit rate of 0.4-0.5 and so you get 4.kitten crits. We’ll call it 5 for ease. Infused Momentum has the strange mechanic of increasing in chance per crit from 5% to 50%. For the sake of ease let’s take the average of 25% to assume 50% combat uptime of Momentum. Therefore, out of 5 possible crits, 1.25 stacks of Infused Momentum are generated in 10 seconds. This averages to combat uptime of Quickness procs of 1 proc ~40 seconds. At this point, the 10 second ICD is all but redundant.

• Bleeding Shot: In a 10 second period, bla bla bla, 12 casts possible due to 0.8 casting time etc etc. 40-50% crit chance = 4.8-6 ~5.4 average crits. Assuming 25% average Momentum chance, 1.35 stacks are generated in 10 seconds, average uptime Quickness procs 1 proc per 37 seconds. Again, the ICD is redundant.

• Grenade Kit 1: In a 10 second period, etc. 10 casts possible due to 1.0 casting time. 3 hits per cast with Grenadier. 30 hits of 40-50% crit chance = 12-15 crits; average 13.5. 25% average Momentum chance = 3.375 procs per 10; or 1 Quickness proc per 14.8 seconds

• Flame Thrower 1: In a 10 second period, etc. 4 casts possible due to 2.5 casting time. 10 hits per cast. 25 hits of 40-50% crit chance = 10-12.5 crits, average 11.25. 25% average Momentum chance = 2.8125 procs per 10; or 1 Quickness proc per 17.7 recurring seconds

• Do you see what I mean when this proposal reinforces kits? Sure it’s powerful enough that it might make people put points into Firearms, but not deep enough into Firearms that people couldn’t simply run 30/6 Explosives, run GK and Infused Momentum anyway.

• Grenadier + This is going to become the new PVE DPS god. In PvP, big explosions have never been more guaranteed, and cries of lamentation are unending amidst relentless blasts.

• If I wanted to be statistically rigourous I would be using Binomial Distributions but I can’t be bothered; the results are significant enough that I would expect the numbers to turn out approximately the same.

I think it might be worth thinking about moving Power Shoes at this point; or giving Adept Inventions traits that aren’t terrible. Introducing Infused Momentum sounds like a terrible terrible idea.

Wolf.5816:

Dirame.8521:

Wolf.5816:

I always wished for Modified Ammunition to: “Increase your damage by 2% for each condition on your target. Increases damage by an additional 2% when wielding a Pistol in your off hand.”

Well Malthias and I agree that a direct boost in damage isn’t adequate to get people to use that trait. A more functionality driven change would really give Modified Ammunition the attributes it need to drive people towards it.

In other words, new builds that don’t require explosives.

I must admit I am wearing the biased blinders for this trait. As I have always wished to make a competitive Power Pistol/Pistol Build as well as a Condition Rifle build but this trait (with my suggested buff) would simply help my agenda Heh.

I know it’s foolish to bother with changing the intended roles of a weapon. But it’s my opinion that there just simply shouldn’t be a defined role for a weapon. Particularly for a Profession that only has 2, I think that weapons should be more versatile letting your traits/skills/gear/sigils/tactics define how your weapon performs.

• Weapons have roles in this game, because it’s good to promote different gameplay styles by influencing condi application, power coefficient and utility kit alone.
• For the sake of balance, it is important to remember that every weapon that has a “defined” condi or power role has their durations and coefficients set accordingly, bar a few weapons that are so-called “designed” for the hybrid role
• Unfortunately, these hybrid weapons invariably have glaring weaknesses. Warrior Rifle gives up coefficients for some worthless Bleed stacks, Necro Staff fuses a Power autoattack with condi applying Marks; Ranger Shortbow has awful Power coefficients for desultory condi application results; etc.
• The only “true” hybrid weapon in this game at this time is Warrior Longbow, but then again, all of Warrior’s weapons are strong, so it isn’t exactly a contest

Modified ammo just needs to provide Engineers with strong enough weapon skills that the opportunity cost of not running Explosives is ameliorated. This means:

• For Modified ammo to provide a good alternative to Incendiary Powder by buffing mainhand autoattacks to the level of Kit autoattacks with IP.
  • This would be achievable by adding an autoattack chain skill to Pistol and Rifle 1. For Rifle 1, decreasing range should be rewarded with Vulnerability stacking and increased damage/cleave to emphasise it’s “shotgun” design. For Pistol 1, decreasing range should be rewarded with increased hybrid damage with longer Bleed stacks and higher Power coefficient (0.4 coeff. on a 0.8 cast could go up to 0.6-8 coeff. on a 0.8 cast – if sub 200 range risk was rewarded). However, Pistol 1 should never receive condition diversity, because 2012 Dhuumfire Necro spamming Scepter 1 should have been lesson enough; and we Engineers have the pre-nerfed Dhuumfire.

• Modified Ammo then has to be supported enough by ancillary traits to reward use of the Toolbar – the one thing that Engineers turn to in lieu of Kit skills.
  • This means: Traits that cleanse condis on non-kit Toolbelt skills use; Traits that decrease cooldown of Toolbelt skills on crit; and folding in “utility” Firearms Traits like Go for the Eyes and Sitting Duck to provide Toolbelt skill benefits – as Kit skills usually have long cooldowns, and non-kit skills shorter ones, it then makes sense for the Trait lines Firearms, Inventions and Tools to support Toolbelt utility as they hold more non-kit skill traits.

• By this point, Engi mainhand weapons would be strong enough, and Explosives is de-emphasised; although no lesser or greater. Build diversity should theoretically improve.

To be fair, I assumed these traits would be moved around in their track according to their strength/weakness.

And I see now, I had forgotten to put that Infused momentum will reset if your current weapon is stowed.

But very insightful data gathering, I usually just make the values into X and Y as the numbers could be adjusted and altered on a whim. But the general mechanic or gameplay is primarily my focus.

I felt this would make maintaining pressure on a target while staying in a single weapon rewarding. Not to mention the fact it allows for an alternative to Speedy Kits, and it’s advantage is it cannot be Stolen or Corrupted. The disadvantage is it can no longer proc Invigorating Speed.

However you do have valid points, a good way to make traits attract non-Kit users would be effects that cease when inside a Kit.

Wolf.5816:

Coated Bullets could also use a review. Perhaps if:

• Coated Bullets: Your Pistol Shots pierce, in addition Some of your pistol skills have bonus effects:
-Static Shot: Bounces an additional time.
-Blowtorch: Is now Unblockable and deals bonus damage to foes with Protection.
-Glue Shot: Will now detonate causing damage and inflicting Burning on nearby foes when striking a target suffering from Burning. (Also creates a Combo Field:Fire)

• Some solid suggestions here, although I disagree with Glue Shot creating a Fire Field. Combo potential aside, it’s not good design to mix CC and high damage in the one skill. Spread out? Sure. But together in one is like Pin Down/Combustive Shot for a Condi Warrior; or Pistol Whip for Thief; and we saw what happened to Pistol Whip. (Anet needs to make Initiative skills used more than once per X duration incur increasing initiative costs; then make S/D, S/P and P/P skills combo together better like D/P, but this is off topic)
  • Why not make Poison Dart Volley give the bonus damage on Burning Foes? Base coeff 0.4 × kittens; but put it up to 0.6-0.7 × kittens (3.0-3.5 if all kitten) and you have a viable hybrid weapon – if you hit your PDV. Increase the caveat to Burning and at least 1-2 other condition(s) to give appropriate investment for reward, and you now have PDV that no longer sucks.
  • Glue Shot should become a Combo Field, but I agree with Dirame in that the closest is probably Frost for its snare; but Cripple should remain as Chill is ludicrously strong. Chill should only be applicable with Combo Finishers in the Glue Shot field. And besides, it would be all the stronger with Cripple covering Chill.
  • Static Shot is already rewarding enough, but rewarding its clutch nature would be to make it Daze for 0.5 seconds, then increase its damage from 0.4 coeff. to 0.7 if a foe is interrupted.

Wolf.5816:

snip, Rifle Mod talk
I’d also like to see a Trait that would do something along the lines of: After your opponent Reaches 5 Conditions from you or a source you control they explode after 3 seconds consuming your applied conditions dealing X damage for each condition on them at the time of detonation.
(Damage per condition: 5%)

This would create an alternative and interesting way to play with conditions. You would have to manage them in the sense that keeping several high damage conditions to burn them down or try to load them up for a burst but risking losing your condition pressure if mitigated. Giving it, a three second “primer” count down would introduce some very interesting counter play as well. As a foe realizing they have a chemical reaction about to erupt on them would make them rush to attempt to cleanse the self softening the blow. Or attempt to mitigate the blast with damage reduction/invulnerabilities essentially giving you a free cleanse at the Engineers expense.

There is a Greek saying that goes, “There is nothing new under the Sun”; and none moreso than in this instance. Your proposal is essentially Crystal Wave from GW1 rehashed into a trait. Personally, I think it’s great design; because the only play/counterplay around conditions at the moment is simply application/removal via cleansing or transfer etc.

• Adding a Condition Reap to Engineer is a great idea as it utilises Engineer’s Condition diversity to promote a hybrid playstyle, instead of Might stacking (broken mechanic) or relying on Incendiary Powder (propping up awful sustained damage of profession by single RNG trait is bad design)
  • There is one caveat, however, and it is that the greatest condition diversity lies within Kits, not mainhand weapons; and especially Rifle lacks diversity. The trait would have to be Master + tier in Firearms; and this incurs massive opportunity costs. Alternatively, such a trait could be located in Inventions or Tools (preferably Tools); or not be a trait at all; and be the new Personal Battering Ram mechanic.
  • That being said, Sitting Duck just became OP.
  • Given that Engineer relies upon conditions for CC – Immob, cripple – there would be real trade-offs between controlling the opponent and dealing damage. This is great because it forces more cerebral play and trade-offs.

What if Modified Ammunitions empowered the autoattack of the pistol based on the last 2~5 skill used?
Basically, using those skills would give X charges of the appropriate ammunition type.
*Poison Dart Volley -Poisonous Bullet
*Static Shot -Confounding Bullet
*Blowtorch -Incendiary Bullet
*Glue Shot -Sticky Bullet
Those charges would be used when attacking with Fragmentation Shot, adding effects to the autoattack (poison,confusion,burning,cripple or immobilization) and eventually visual cues to the projectiles shot.
By raising the uptime of the damaging conditions, dps would increase; Using it with kits wouldn’t help much, as those conditions are already covered by them.
The only issue i have with this is about what happens if you use 2~5 skills in succession, as that would give multiple different bullets.
Thus:
*Either only one type of ammunition can be loaded at anytime, though, meaning that using 2~5 skills in succession would end up wasting most of the effect of the trait.
*All the bullets can be loaded together, and
*Either they are shot one at a time, but then the UI could become too bloated, and a way to see the subsequent bullet shot would be needed.
*All of them are shot together, causing a mini condi-burst.

There could be something similar for the rifle as well, but i can’t think of anything right now. It wouldn’t be as straightforward as the pistol, likely.

Also, i’m terrible at writing lists (dunno why i can’t make the textile work).

Are you saying that after I use Static Shot, for the next X seconds my Fragmentation Shot will have a chance to inflict blind and confusion? Is the duration of this Buff tied to the cool down of Static Shot? For example: If I used Static Shock for the next 15 seconds (untraited) while Static Shot is on Cool down I would have a chance to inflict confusion and blind with my auto attack?

It is an interesting concept either way.

Actually, i was thinking about “the next X autoattacks inflict something” ,where something depends on the ammunition you’ve loaded via the skill used before it. And X is a number that should be decided upon balancing, as it also depends on other parameters (the amounts of the stacks and their durations, or even a per-case basis)
For example, let’s say that in the case of Static Shot, X is equal to 3 and every confounding bullet inflicts 2 stacks of confusion for 3s.
Thus, after using Static Shot, your next 3 autoattacks will inflict 2 stacks of confusion for 3s in addition on the usual effects of fragmentation shot.

Would be interesting if they mix the 20% recharge of rifle and then also increase its dmg by 10%. For pistol recharge and piercing pistol in one trait.

I think they should increase the tool kit dmg increase to 20% not 10% it doesn’t have enough dmg best skills for a only 10% increase.

Wolf.5816:

I agree that Hair Trigger should be fused with Rifle Mods. The new Rifle Mod could be:
• Rifle Mod: Your Rifle Skills now have bonus effects when hitting foes at 200 range:
-Hip Shot:Inflicts Bleeding
-Net shot: Dazes for 0.5 seconds.
-Blunderbuss:Applies 5 stacks of Vulnerability
-Overcharged Shot: inflicts 3 stacks of Confusion.
-Jump Shot: Inflicts Blind

I really like that idea, though instead the bonuses being attached to Rifle Mod I believe attaching it to Modified Ammunition makes more sense. This mean that if you want to use the rifle alone, with no kits, you have to go 30 into Firearms, not just 20.

All those effects are nice, but the Blind on Jump Shot should only apply the the initial jump, not the landing. The landing already does great damage and it makes for sense as when you jump you leave smoke and dirt behind, also more reason to use the skill in close-range.

Zaviel.1245:

Wolf.5816:

I agree that Hair Trigger should be fused with Rifle Mods. The new Rifle Mod could be:
• Rifle Mod: Your Rifle Skills now have bonus effects when hitting foes at 200 range:
-Hip Shot:Inflicts Bleeding
-Net shot: Dazes for 0.5 seconds.
-Blunderbuss:Applies 5 stacks of Vulnerability
-Overcharged Shot: inflicts 3 stacks of Confusion.
-Jump Shot: Inflicts Blind

I really like that idea, though instead the bonuses being attached to Rifle Mod I believe attaching it to Modified Ammunition makes more sense. This mean that if you want to use the rifle alone, with no kits, you have to go 30 into Firearms, not just 20.

All those effects are nice, but the Blind on Jump Shot should only apply the the initial jump, not the landing. The landing already does great damage and it makes for sense as when you jump you leave smoke and dirt behind, also more reason to use the skill in close-range.

In my opinion, Go For the Eyes (Trait) should make all Rifle weapon skills cause Blindness (not the autoattack) without internal cooldown. It would be a great boon for Engineers using Rifle to have some form of active defense (and Immobilise cover) and it competes with traits like Rifle Mod, which forces opportunity cost decisions. As Blindness stacks in duration, blowing every cooldown at once for burst is less optimal, but really, when Rifle bursting, having Blind on the target already takes away so many counter options on the opponent’s part that it’s unlikely to be hit in return.

• An example of this is already in game with Thief’s Shadow Shot which allows D/P Thief to engage on targets without fear of the opponent going for a CC skill immediately for lockdown. It makes the weapon set surprisingly survivable especially in combination with its other skills.
• To make the trait more offensive, a % damage boost could be tacked onto the trait, but the resulting defensive options are already quite strong. Extremely few classes can overload 1 blind per second (presuming Rifle burst) and when the trait is used optimally (spread out rifle cooldowns so Blind can be removed and restacked) it allows for some clutch defensive counterpressure play; timing Rifle skills to hit before an opponent’s skills do.

I like the explosive line despite all of it’s problems (like mines scattered all over, danced upon ad nauseum, doing terrible damage, having really low trigger range compared to traps greatswords, not healing anyone save for the bombs) But I too have tried other lines, I’ve tried just about every PVE build out there and unfortunately we do have to tap into the explosives line in traits for everything.

What’s even more bothersome is this line doesn’t enhance other condition heavy systems like the EG/FT for example. You can’t simply have an engi heavy in condition damage without having to use bombs grenades as one of the things you add. There are no EG FT builds that work well for condition damage really without having eternal burn for example.

The other thing that bothers me is that in order to do any real damage we have to rely solely on burns. Bleeds are stacked by every single build in every single class in the game so bleeds are out of the question for stacking, and poison is ridiculously low. When was the last time an industrial poison had such a low damage potential. Even venoms are not that low in the damage department like when do people get shot with a poison dart and not die quickly especially with certain kinds. It’s like they want us to use something that’s slow and agonizing when they know chemical warfare is not like that at all irl. Poison should be one of the most deadliest of all damage types especially since it’s so less often used in the game.

I think they need to add a serious number of traits even if they double them up (no more of this locked XIII trait additions thing until they fix the ones that are there) and they need to exchange the locations of where the crit condition damage and condition duration locations are on the trait lines to make them more in line with what a typical build calls for.

But you see we’ve written about this multiple times and it still falls on deaf ears.

tigirius.9014:

But you see we’ve written about this multiple times and it still falls on deaf ears.

Doesn’t mean we should stop talking about it.

It’s something that needs to be developed and worked on to extend the variety of builds in the Engineers kitten nal.

My builds used to use both the Explosives line and the Firearms line, but the change to Incendiary Powder and Kit Refinement has forced me to spread my traits out further into the Alchemy line for sustainability and further into the explosives to get Incendiary powder.

Dirame.8521:

tigirius.9014:

But you see we’ve written about this multiple times and it still falls on deaf ears.

Doesn’t mean we should stop talking about it.

It’s something that needs to be developed and worked on to extend the variety of builds in the Engineers kitten nal.

My builds used to use both the Explosives line and the Firearms line, but the change to Incendiary Powder and Kit Refinement has forced me to spread my traits out further into the Alchemy line for sustainability and further into the explosives to get Incendiary powder.

Oh no I think these things aren’t talked about enough really and I think that there needs to be some method some outcry some internet message to the developers to really grab their attention, maybe at a game con maybe in an internet video put out there by someone the players will know and recognize that will get news started about the players being ignored here on the forums. It’s time for a revamp, it really is there’s just so much wrong with the game at this point that a huge patch is needed. People have already started making the statements that in order for this game to be fixed and fixed properly they need to have a really focused expansion with a large number of fixes to the problems that are already here in which they follow the same pattern they did when launch was coming and they spoke directly with the playerbase everywhere they could to get information on what people wanted. (incidentally that’s how the manifesto was built in the first place.)

tigirius.9014:

Dirame.8521:

tigirius.9014:

But you see we’ve written about this multiple times and it still falls on deaf ears.

Doesn’t mean we should stop talking about it.

It’s something that needs to be developed and worked on to extend the variety of builds in the Engineers kitten nal.

My builds used to use both the Explosives line and the Firearms line, but the change to Incendiary Powder and Kit Refinement has forced me to spread my traits out further into the Alchemy line for sustainability and further into the explosives to get Incendiary powder.

Oh no I think these things aren’t talked about enough really and I think that there needs to be some method some outcry some internet message to the developers to really grab their attention, maybe at a game con maybe in an internet video put out there by someone the players will know and recognize that will get news started about the players being ignored here on the forums. It’s time for a revamp, it really is there’s just so much wrong with the game at this point that a huge patch is needed. People have already started making the statements that in order for this game to be fixed and fixed properly they need to have a really focused expansion with a large number of fixes to the problems that are already here in which they follow the same pattern they did when launch was coming and they spoke directly with the playerbase everywhere they could to get information on what people wanted. (incidentally that’s how the manifesto was built in the first place.)

Get your mind off that expansion. I don’t think it will solve as many problems as people keep thinking it will solve.
The problems that Anet needs to fix, need to be targeted and well thought out. It’s something that you put on a bulletin board and when it’s time for that, you put your mind to it and you make it perfect.
Right now, there’s so many things that Arenanet needs to fix that the list on the bulletin board could go as far as the lobby and the parking lot.

Dirame.8521:

tigirius.9014:

Dirame.8521:

tigirius.9014:

But you see we’ve written about this multiple times and it still falls on deaf ears.

Doesn’t mean we should stop talking about it.

It’s something that needs to be developed and worked on to extend the variety of builds in the Engineers kitten nal.

My builds used to use both the Explosives line and the Firearms line, but the change to Incendiary Powder and Kit Refinement has forced me to spread my traits out further into the Alchemy line for sustainability and further into the explosives to get Incendiary powder.

Oh no I think these things aren’t talked about enough really and I think that there needs to be some method some outcry some internet message to the developers to really grab their attention, maybe at a game con maybe in an internet video put out there by someone the players will know and recognize that will get news started about the players being ignored here on the forums. It’s time for a revamp, it really is there’s just so much wrong with the game at this point that a huge patch is needed. People have already started making the statements that in order for this game to be fixed and fixed properly they need to have a really focused expansion with a large number of fixes to the problems that are already here in which they follow the same pattern they did when launch was coming and they spoke directly with the playerbase everywhere they could to get information on what people wanted. (incidentally that’s how the manifesto was built in the first place.)

Get your mind off that expansion. I don’t think it will solve as many problems as people keep thinking it will solve.
The problems that Anet needs to fix, need to be targeted and well thought out. It’s something that you put on a bulletin board and when it’s time for that, you put your mind to it and you make it perfect.
Right now, there’s so many things that Arenanet needs to fix that the list on the bulletin board could go as far as the lobby and the parking lot.

I’m not worried so much about an expansion as I am about getting NCsoft to infuse this game with the money it needs to get them going on these problems. It’s going on 2 years now and it’s obviously NOT happening from the amount it’s receiving right now. So it’s less about the content we’d see in an expansion and more about the list still on the wiki page.

The game is fine chicken little. This is an engineer thread about the explosive line. Take your doom and gloom, pretend, and made up problems and go to the appropriate sub forum to spread your made up propaganda, this isn’t the place.

tigirius.9014:

I’m not worried so much about an expansion as I am about getting NCsoft to infuse this game with the money it needs to get them going on these problems. It’s going on 2 years now and it’s obviously NOT happening from the amount it’s receiving right now. So it’s less about the content we’d see in an expansion and more about the list still on the wiki page.

coglin.1867:

The game is fine chicken little. This is an engineer thread about the explosive line. Take your doom and gloom, pretend, and made up problems and go to the appropriate sub forum to spread your made up propaganda, this isn’t the place.

I have to agree with coglin on this one. Ranting about the state of the game whilst proposing unrealistic changes that completely upset the established design of Engineer like:

tigirius.9014:

I think they need to add a serious number of traits even if they double them up (no more of this locked XIII trait additions thing until they fix the ones that are there) and they need to exchange the locations of where the crit condition damage and condition duration locations are on the trait lines to make them more in line with what a typical build calls for.

But you see we’ve written about this multiple times and it still falls on deaf ears.

…doesn’t exactly contribute constructively to the discussion.

Again, I’ll just reiterate my previous points that currently the best way to shift Engineer from Explosives is to buff the Firearms tree to give the mainhand weapons greater damage potential and utility such that Engineers aren’t inferior to Engineers taking points in Explosives.

Note my emphasis on non-inferiority; because you only get real build diversity when you no longer have apex choices like IP or like Steel packed Powder+Grenadier.

After offense, there comes defense, and the Inventions line is clearly outmatched by the choices in Alchemy, which are more reliable and have easy placement and synergies. What synergies there are are dedicated towards Turrets, which makes builds trying to run non-turret builds leery of putting points in.

I believe that a lot of missing utility from using the Toolbelt skills can be put into this line, and certain triggers in Tools could also bear looking at. Engineer at present lacks certain key functionalities:

• Condition mitigation outside of Alchemy
• Stability access outside of very specialised utilities
• “Clutch” mechanics like Aegis on reliable triggers

Just about the easiest one is to put a Master Tier trait into Inventions to cleanse a condition when a Toolbelt skill is used (15 seconds ICD per Toolbelt skill), replacing Reinforced Shield that then moves down into Adept tier; which in turn displaces Energised Armour that becomes the new 5 (1) point Adept Minor. %Conversion traits should not deserve a Major trait slot in any profession. Leave those effects to Runes like Undead and Wurm and Exuberance instead.

Armour Mods in Tools should simply be gain Aegis on using a Toolbelt skill with 15 seconds ICD. As there is now a cooldown cost to Armour Mods, a lower ICD may be justifiable.

These 2 changes alone would be useful in making new builds possible. As I said, I don’t believe a complete rework of Engineer is required. Traits need to be consolidated and clear design goals set and met for key functionalities, that’s all.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

The way to do this in Vee Wee’s opinion is to completely overhaul the Firearms tree and buff other supposedly offensive kits! The Firearms tree is the only other offensive tree the Engineer has! And it is just awful! So bad! There are very few good traits in there buffing only mediocre weapons and kits, and there is never a reason (in PvP at least) to put a full 30 points into that tree! Going 20 into that tree is already not so good!

The Flamethrower and Tool Kits should be buffed too! The Flamethrower should be an offensive kit! It’s a Flamethrower! But it’s just so goshdarn weak! The 33% damage increase to Flame Jet is a good start, but Vee Wee does not think it will make the kit viable in PvP! The Tool Kit auto attack should be buffed! Rarely will you ever do a full auto attack chain with the Tool Kit because it’s so slow and obvious! Vee Wee thinks they should change Thwack! Reduce the damage a tiny bit, halve the cast time, and make it cleave 3 targets!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

I must say, I like the idea of your proposed Armor Mod trait.

I know I’m not alone when I say that conversion are not a very innovative design. I personally would like to see traits with more effects and build defining mechanics over simple numbers and X more damage under X circumstances traits.

At any rate, I’m just going to continue my theory crafting.

Perhaps a trait like:

• Hard Wired Gadgets: Activating a Gadget reduces your Rifle, Pistol and Shield cool downs by X%.

^This would make taking more Gadgets provide excellent synergistic properties to your weapon alone. Giving you more opportunities to use your weapons skills more effectively and if timed properly. Incentivizing a relationship with your weapon and your Utility skills over kits, particularly if the proper X% cool down reduction was found, to make taking one or two gadgets not as effective as 3 or 4. Discouraging Kit based builds.