Grenade Nerf Not That Bad
It looks fine on paper, but seriously compare it to the capabilities of the other classes and you’ll see it’s pitiful. ALL of our kits got nerfed due to the sigil thing and overall it’s made engineers (already one of the worst classes) even worse. They’re below mediocre now while warriors got unneeded buffs.
Engineers have no useful niche left.
I noticed about 300 dmg lost per grenade; yes, its a big deal. The elixir “fix” hurts so much as well.
I’m so sick of people claiming that Flash Grenades and Poison Grenades doing damage somehow balanced the nerf out.
We lost 35% damage on a skill we use once per second, and gained damage (which is only 1/3 and 2/3 the damage of a skill 1 attack) on skills we use once every 10 and 25 seconds.
It doesn’t even come close to compensating.
Tarnished Coast | Best cookies in all of Tyria
I’m so sick of people claiming that Flash Grenades and Poison Grenades doing damage somehow balanced the nerf out.
We lost 35% damage on a skill we use once per second, and gained damage (which is only 1/3 and 2/3 the damage of a skill 1 attack) on skills we use once every 10 and 25 seconds.
It doesn’t even come close to compensating.
Agreed.
“I feel like I’m getting trolled here. Good day sir.”
- John Smith, ArenaNet in-house economist
- John Smith, ArenaNet in-house economist
I’ll even do the math.
Over 50 seconds (to make the math easier to understand) we will use Poison Grenade twice, Flash Grenade five times, and Grenade for every other attack.
Pre-nerf:
2 x Poison Grenade @ 0.000 = 0.000
5 x Flash Grenade @ 0.000 = 0.000
43 x Grenade @ 0.500 = 21.50
For a total of 21.50
Post-nerf:
2 x Poison Grenade @ 0.200 = 0.400
5 x Flash Grenade @ 0.100 = 0.500
43 x Grenade @ 0.330 = 14.19
For a total of 15.09
Interestingly 21.50 – 30% = 15.05
So the gain we get from Poison Grenade and Flash Grenade dealing damage is actually nullified by the true nerf to Grenade Skill 1 (34%, not the claimed 30%).
Tarnished Coast | Best cookies in all of Tyria
(edited by Mif.3471)
I’m so sick of people claiming that Flash Grenades and Poison Grenades doing damage somehow balanced the nerf out.
We lost 35% damage on a skill we use once per second, and gained damage (which is only 1/3 and 2/3 the damage of a skill 1 attack) on skills we use once every 10 and 25 seconds.
It doesn’t even come close to compensating.
Agreed.
Completely agreed. It’s not even close to offsetting the nerf, nor was adding weapon sigils. I hate to see how much more they nerf grenades when they bad weapon stats to Grenades. Actually I won’t. I’ll be playing their true hybrid class that they don’t neuter in the damage department.
Zend(ario/imas/iana/ango) – Engi/Ele/Necro/Guardian
[KnT] – Blackgate
[KnT] – Blackgate
In terms of PvE, the #1 Grenade got nerfed by 34% (from a skill coefficient of 0.500 to 0.330), but is compensated by (1) ability to work with sigils, and (2) giving damage to the #3 Flash Grenades and #5 Poison Grenades.
In terms of PvP, the #1 Grenade got nerfed by 26% (from a skill coefficient of 0.450 to 0.330), but is compensated by (1) ability to work with sigils, (2) giving damage to #3/#5, and (3) buffing (or bringing back to normal, whatever floats your boat) #2 Shrapnel Grenade and #4 Freeze Grenade.
In addition, the change to the trait Shrapnel from 6% to 15% chance for explosions to cause bleeding is nice. However, since I do not know the nature of the ability*, I can’t say exactly how awesome it really is.
From what I can see, the 30% damage decrease was not only just due to sigils, but also for the damage increase on the other grenade abilities, and the Shrapnel trait.
In case anyone was curious, the toolbelt skill Grenade Barrage stayed at a skill coefficient of 0.375 before and after the December 14th patch.
*What I mean by “nature of the ability” is that I do not know if the trait has an internal cooldown, and whether or not the bleed is applied to a single target or aoe.
No disrespect intended, but you are drawing conclusions based on generalizations. Saying that a 34% nerf in damage is “compensated” by a Sigil is just too hard to believe without solid reproducible data.
“I feel like I’m getting trolled here. Good day sir.”
- John Smith, ArenaNet in-house economist
- John Smith, ArenaNet in-house economist
Well, I did some number-crunching of my own. We are seeing how the kit interacts with sigils now, yes? I found something kinda interesting.
Per minute…
2 Poison
3 Freeze
6 Flash
12 Shrap
36 Reg
Before (Grenades PvE)
18.00 Reg
0.00 Flash
0.00 Poison
1.50 Freeze
6.60 Shrap
26.10 Total
Before (Grenades PvP)
16.20 Reg
0.00 Flash
0.00 Poison
1.35 Freeze
5.40 Shrap
21.95 Total
After with 5% damage buff
12.47 Reg
6.93 Shrap
0.63 Flash
1.58 Freeze
0.42 Poison
22.03 Total
15.6% Less damage coefficient against the pre-patch PvE stats.
Minimally more than pre-patch PvP stats though.
That 5% makes a good difference, making up for 15% of the nerf. Suffice to say, with another sigil, perhaps 5% crit, on a second weapon, we might be seeing significant comparison.
Yes but now you are forced to run a 5% damage Sigil to compensate for the fact that you can use Sigils.
Kind of seems like the optimal thing to do anyway if you’re going for AoE damage, right? Procs won’t trigger on each target, so static bonuses become the needed thing.
Grenades were strong beforehand. Real strong. Now we just have to invest a little more to keep them strong. And are you really going to complain about 5% Damage and Crit sigils on your weapons? It’s boring but arguably the most effective way to go about it on weapons anyhow.
Also, Crit-Might (Sigil of Strength) will work wonderfully with crit-proccing anyway. So there’s a load of might you can add to each grenade for even more damagey goodness.
Yes but now you are forced to run a 5% damage Sigil to compensate for the fact that you can use Sigils.
What’s more, you’re forced to run two +5% damage sigils on a pistol/shield or pistol/pistol just to see the same results as before.
Using a rifle with grenades, even with the +5% damage sigil will see a 15% decrease in damage output, which eliminates the rifle as a viable mainhand weapon entirely for grenade dps specs (and possibly all of our dps specs, if Anet takes the same approach when balancing the rest of our kits.)
So giving us sigils now forced all grenade dps specs to use pistol/pistol, with two +5% damage bonus sigils (or maybe crit chance, if your group isn’t already stacking bleeds.) Here I thought this class specialized in versatility.
-Travail.
Yes but now you are forced to run a 5% damage Sigil to compensate for the fact that you can use Sigils.
What’s more, you’re forced to run two +5% damage sigils on a pistol/shield or pistol/pistol just to see the same results as before.
Using a rifle with grenades, even with the +5% damage sigil will see a 15% decrease in damage output, which eliminates the rifle as a viable mainhand weapon entirely for grenade dps specs (and possibly all of our dps specs, if Anet takes the same approach when balancing the rest of our kits.)
So giving us sigils now forced all grenade dps specs to use pistol/pistol, with two +5% damage bonus sigils (or maybe crit chance, if your group isn’t already stacking bleeds.) Here I thought this class specialized in versatility.
-Travail.
Two 5% sigils stack?
Kind of seems like the optimal thing to do anyway if you’re going for AoE damage, right? Procs won’t trigger on each target, so static bonuses become the needed thing.
Grenades were strong beforehand. Real strong. Now we just have to invest a little more to keep them strong. And are you really going to complain about 5% Damage and Crit sigils on your weapons? It’s boring but arguably the most effective way to go about it on weapons anyhow.
Also, Crit-Might (Sigil of Strength) will work wonderfully with crit-proccing anyway. So there’s a load of might you can add to each grenade for even more damagey goodness.
As its been said over and over, grenades are only strong if a person stands still and takes them.
Having to manually aim, manually trigger, compensate for distance/travel time, the fact that its unlikely all your grenades will actually hit the same target along with how easy it is to dodge/block/counter them THAT is why grenades do alot of damage.
You can’t just balance numbers with skills that are also skill shots.
If a skill is more difficult to use then it is also more risky to use so the reward should be higher.
People who think the Grenade #1 skill did to much damage are the same who want to just stand on the gate wall and be able to AOE all the ram users but they can because an Engineer can stop them.
Grenades were strong only compared to other engi skills.
Guardians and Warriors both do more damage while having more survaivability and innate aoe. So why did they nerf ’nades in PvE is beyond me.
EU Aurora Glade
Kind of seems like the optimal thing to do anyway if you’re going for AoE damage, right? Procs won’t trigger on each target, so static bonuses become the needed thing.
Grenades were strong beforehand. Real strong. Now we just have to invest a little more to keep them strong. And are you really going to complain about 5% Damage and Crit sigils on your weapons? It’s boring but arguably the most effective way to go about it on weapons anyhow.
Also, Crit-Might (Sigil of Strength) will work wonderfully with crit-proccing anyway. So there’s a load of might you can add to each grenade for even more damagey goodness.
The most might you can stack with a sigil of strength is something like 6 stacks, which is 6% damage; 1% more than using the flat +5% damage sigil, and you don’t have to worry about building and maintaining might stacks.
The point is, implementing sigils was supposed to offer us more customization of our builds, not less.
Seems to me, all it’s done is elminated the rifle as a mainhand weapon for dps specs that rely on kits for their damage.
-Travail.
To be fair although the nerf kinda sucks it isnt really that bad and it doesnt really eliminate our options with Grenades.
The worst thing about the nerf is the apparant mindset of the Devs and the direction they seem to want to go.
How bad will we get nerfed if they have stats carry over to kits in PvE/WvW
How bad will we get nerfed if they have weapon damage apply to kits.
What if they every decide to make Turrets better/stronger/more viable?
What will they have to nerf then?
If they ever fix Mortar Range traits will they “tone down” the Mortars damage to compensate.
What happens when they fix the FT #1 & #2 skills?
I would almost rather them just leave everything alone then have to deal with whatever “balancing” trade offs they come up with.
Find me math on the whole “Might = 1% more damage” thing. But that’s a different topic for another day.
I can see a hybrid elixir-grenadier spec using HGH and crit-might to achieve some very impressive numbers.
I do agree that it sucks to be a 1-handed weapon… But that’s more than just Engineer’s problem when it comes to Sigil customization. It just feels worse because Engineers are just now adapting to Sigil usage.
They have to be cautious with this new change. If at an optimal level, we can get grenades to be as effective as they were before, then we have, in fact, made up for the Sigil upgrade. So if we just put all our possible points into damage, and all we get is damage… Then mission accomplished. If we put points/resources into other things, we shouldn’t expect to do as much as we did before.
In my opinion, I think 30% was a bit much as well. 20% would have been much better. But ANet seems to err on the side of caution when bringing in something big.
People have been complaining that Warriors, mesmers, Elementalists, and Guardians are getting buffs. They aren’t rising in power level though. Their getting more viable options because they are starting to be “refined” form the rough release state.
Engineers, Rangers, and Necromancers are still being dug from the earth, that is to say ANet is still working around the rough edges, trying not to hurt the game state, while trying to get us to that same point of becoming a refineable product.
It might be a little while longer than other classes, but we’ll get there. Have patience, have faith, and know that better days are on the way.
Way too much QQing going on in these forums. Making rage post is not going to solve anything or give them any meaningful feedback.
CriSPeH: They will indeed have to look at all kits damage if we get weapon damage applying to kits. A multiplier increase by a couple hundred points is a massive damage increase.
The rest is overreaction.
Edit: @Wasdclick: You cant simply say Might = 1% because there are alot of factors involved. The more power you have the less effective stacking power will be. There are alot of optimizations one can make if they were serious about DPS.
(edited by NickDollahZ.5348)
I’m so sick of people claiming that Flash Grenades and Poison Grenades doing damage somehow balanced the nerf out.
We lost 35% damage on a skill we use once per second, and gained damage (which is only 1/3 and 2/3 the damage of a skill 1 attack) on skills we use once every 10 and 25 seconds.
It doesn’t even come close to compensating.
Agreed.
It doesn’t at all! And the initial damage isn’t the same as other classes like oh say the necro’s marks. They blast all kinds of initial damage out before ticking yet we get that tiny damage and tiny tick like we dunno anything about chemical warfare or something. sheesh.
Oh and OP that doesn’t solve the issues at all with the smaller then a 1h sword explosion radius or the lack of a wider explosive radius when forceful explosions is traited. So yes it is that bad.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
Please do not assume flash grenade is in anyway useful for DAMAGE at any times. Btw it does 76 dmg per hit on my tooltip. (I can take on the world with it.) The damage on poison grenade is a buff, just gave me a reason to actually use it. Now “Grenade” does more damage than flash nades as we all know, that being said every time you threw a flash nade you just wasted time doing so when you could have thrown grenade for more damage.
before the patch i didnt even use flash grenade. you dont get more than 1 miss out of it anyways, its just a stall tactic. if your melee comrades need it to stay alive your party has bigger issues.
so why the kitten would you include it in your calculations?
poison too. honestly its really good when youre siegebreaking and useless otherwise. poison ticks suck. (the healing debuff is its only use, and its great for turning 1 downed person into 5 downed and 2 dead in wvw)
so buffing something to do worse damage than the “auto” when it wasnt used before is a really crappy way of saying “we know youll hate this and were sorry”.
why would any special skill with a cd ever do less damage than the autoattack? it has a cd for a reason. its supposed to be GOOD.
JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions
^what the guy above me said… I have and will NEVER use smoke grenade as long as it only causes 1! miss – you cant even use it if you see an attack coming because by the time these things fly and land you`re already dead. And YES they still deal no dmg.
One guy in another thread said – Box of nails does more damage than smoke grenade and HOLY kitten IT DOES!
As for poison grenade – iwas already using that pre patch but due to thehigh cooldown its not spammable but situational -when your opponent goes low you throw poison and hope that hes stupid enough to heal anyway.
The most might you can stack with a sigil of strength is something like 6 stacks, which is 6% damage; 1% more than using the flat +5% damage sigil, and you don’t have to worry about building and maintaining might stacks.
Might is 1% more damage? So you have 3500 Power and ~2650 Condition Damage?
At level 80 Might increases your damage by (#Might*35+Power)/Power.
So, assuming you have 2000 Power 6 stacks of Might increase your damage by (6*35+2000)/2000 = 1,105 or 10,5%.
The most might you can stack with a sigil of strength is something like 6 stacks, which is 6% damage; 1% more than using the flat +5% damage sigil, and you don’t have to worry about building and maintaining might stacks.
Might is 1% more damage? So you have 3500 Power and ~2650 Condition Damage?
At level 80 Might increases your damage by (#Might*35+Power)/Power.
So, assuming you have 2000 Power 6 stacks of Might increase your damage by (6*35+2000)/2000 = 1,105 or 10,5%.
You’re right, of course. My brain left the building for a minute, there.
Couldn’t we stack 25 might before, though? Will this provide us with more might than before, or just the same amount of might in a slightly easier way?
-Travail.
(edited by Travail.7390)
Allow me to try and voice some reason.
Grenade 1 with steel packed and grenadier was much more dps then any other skill in the game.
The constant sustained dps outpaced everything by a large margin. 200-300% in most cases. (occasionally even higher). This a fact.
Properly geared and traited grenades were doing 2-4k damage every .85s aoe.
That YOU might miss is irrelevant, when others do not. or npcs that just stand there and take in, in pve.
grenade 1 needed attention. (Granted I probably would go after grenadier/steelpacked or the .85s recast..)
Grenades were buffed in spvp. there is no way you can argue against this.
shrapnel was rebuffed back up to .55. or 1.65 AND 3 15s bleeds. 2.25 condition scaling.
blind does damage now. terrible. but some.
poison does direct damage now too. slightly better, still terrible. but some.
Barrage? still hits for 8-12k and now gets sigils. and 15% shrapnel bleed option. Possibly 2 more stacks of might from hgh. buffed. Our burst was increased here, any way you look at it.
5% force, and +250 power p/p sigils? 14k barrage.
So why is this flat out a buff in spvp?
Because you can’t stand there and auto attack on a target. The only thing that was nerfed, was the ability to stand there, and spam grenade 1 over a 10s period.
The “carpet bomb” was nerfed.
Burst with shrapnel and barrage was outright buffed. Restored to original values, and with sigils, higher then before.
Sitting duck buff is HUGE for none grenade builds. Net turret(every 10s, glue shot, net shot) we have a good amount of immobilize options. Rifles net shot is a 10-8s cd. 8s Rifle net shot cd.. 5 stacks of 8s vul.. (+cond duration?)
Very good stuff.
Cond and grenades.
Tried the new 15% shrapnel trait.
I was capping out bleeds pretty consistently. A bleed proc sigil or sharpshooter 5 in firearms would be even faster/more consistent.
Its a 12s default bleed. 15s with 30 in explosives.
HgH buff is smaller then I gut reactioned. As its only self use elixirs gaining 2 stacks vs 1. Effectively this means only elixir H and elixir B are spamable on self with no negative effect. so +2 stacks vs previous stacks.
Pretty meh.
Best sigils. Hard to say.
3 stacks of might on swap is pretty nice. we have no cooldowns, so can swap every 9s to keep it up and stack 9 stacks consistently from it alone.
315p/cond. Safe, and no on kill requirement. But do need to be in combat, to start stacking. real easy to push 20+ stacks of might with this and hgh.
p/p paired with it. 5% damage.
Bloodlust+5% damage as well.
Rifle. Battles might stacking or 5% damage. need to math to decide which is more.
I don’t feel as beholden to grenades anymore. I was giving p/p a shot again last night. discharge/p/p that I basically leveled with originally. trying TK and Rifle tur for discharge spam. Felt pretty good.
Allow me to try and voice some reason.
Grenade 1 with steel packed and grenadier was much more dps then any other skill in the game.
The constant sustained dps outpaced everything by a large margin. 200-300% in most cases. (occasionally even higher). This a fact.
Properly geared and traited grenades were doing 2-4k damage every .85s aoe.That YOU might miss is irrelevant, when others do not. or npcs that just stand there and take in, in pve.
grenade 1 needed attention. (Granted I probably would go after grenadier/steelpacked or the .85s recast..)Grenades were buffed in spvp. there is no way you can argue against this.
shrapnel was rebuffed back up to .55. or 1.65 AND 3 15s bleeds. 2.25 condition scaling.
blind does damage now. terrible. but some.
poison does direct damage now too. slightly better, still terrible. but some.Barrage? still hits for 8-12k and now gets sigils. and 15% shrapnel bleed option. Possibly 2 more stacks of might from hgh. buffed. Our burst was increased here, any way you look at it.
5% force, and +250 power p/p sigils? 14k barrage.So why is this flat out a buff in spvp?
Because you can’t stand there and auto attack on a target. The only thing that was nerfed, was the ability to stand there, and spam grenade 1 over a 10s period.
The “carpet bomb” was nerfed.
Burst with shrapnel and barrage was outright buffed. Restored to original values, and with sigils, higher then before.Sitting duck buff is HUGE for none grenade builds. Net turret(every 10s, glue shot, net shot) we have a good amount of immobilize options. Rifles net shot is a 10-8s cd. 8s Rifle net shot cd.. 5 stacks of 8s vul.. (+cond duration?)
Very good stuff.Cond and grenades.
Tried the new 15% shrapnel trait.
I was capping out bleeds pretty consistently. A bleed proc sigil or sharpshooter 5 in firearms would be even faster/more consistent.
Its a 12s default bleed. 15s with 30 in explosives.HgH buff is smaller then I gut reactioned. As its only self use elixirs gaining 2 stacks vs 1. Effectively this means only elixir H and elixir B are spamable on self with no negative effect. so +2 stacks vs previous stacks.
Pretty meh.Best sigils. Hard to say.
3 stacks of might on swap is pretty nice. we have no cooldowns, so can swap every 9s to keep it up and stack 9 stacks consistently from it alone.
315p/cond. Safe, and no on kill requirement. But do need to be in combat, to start stacking. real easy to push 20+ stacks of might with this and hgh.
p/p paired with it. 5% damage.Bloodlust+5% damage as well.
Rifle. Battles might stacking or 5% damage. need to math to decide which is more.I don’t feel as beholden to grenades anymore. I was giving p/p a shot again last night. discharge/p/p that I basically leveled with originally. trying TK and Rifle tur for discharge spam. Felt pretty good.
Woah you have written an essay
switching wep is still GCD and everytime you stack might but while you stack might or keep it up you mention net and all controls who here is gonna say engineer is bad while running with a team i for sure dont think so
1v1 just go delete your post its useless crap any Great Player knows how to counter and have the time to kill you
i can also write an essay for any proff how to kill you
( i assume now its PVP and not PVE i cant argue engineers position in pve infact that it aint actully bad )
I have no idea if he is kidding.
Honestly, though, I don’t like grenades. I leveled pistol/pistol. with discharge. and grenades. but purely for barrage. I never actually would swap to grenades themselves.
I made the mistake at that time of focusing on cond.
I got a full prec/tough/cond set from orr. before I started doing the math, and really gave a zerker/grenade build a shot.
wherein my damage went from 400 to 3000. And I said, “are you —-——, kidding me?”
It became REALLY hard to justify anything else. Even when I gave EG builds, discharge, etc builds a shot. Also learned how strong rifle was in there as well. The KB, and raw damage is very high.
A rifle discharge build right now is looking really good. As I said, with grenades down to more reasonable levels, I can justify other builds.
Discharge was buffed indirectly. 9 more stacks of might with sigil of battle. 2 more with hgh buff. so we are sitting on 11 stacks of might now that we didnt have before. 385 power and cond. uh.. yeah. That is a pretty huge buff guys. Even condition builds. Pistols are gaining that on both direct and cond portions.
5% force on offhand I think. for that. Again, so now a p/p discharge build has 385 might, cond, and 5% more damage on discharge and throw wrench.
This is pretty appealing sounding to me.
@Travail: No, we couldn’t stack 25 might easily… Or at all. But with the new HGH, we can get 7-8 stacks fairly consistently between Elixir H and B and toolbelts, leaving us open to take S as our stun break. With the sigil keeping us at 6 more stacks… 13 Stacks of might isn’t something I’d sneeze at. If a high damage engie has 2000 Power (Since we don’t get weapon damage) that might stacking will account for a 22.75% increase in damage dealt. (2000+13*35)/2000
I’ll do my math again to see if we manage to make up for Grenade’s debuffing.
And I get a damage from coefficient rating of 24.46 (NOT accounting for HGH. This is only the maxed out crit-might and 5% damage from Force. HGH is something that could have been done before pre-patch, just not quite as well). That’s only 6% less damage than they were pre-patch. Also, the total loss of damage is likely far less when we consider condition damage that’s supplementing this. Shrapnel Grenade and the new shrapnel trait buff will add up to a lot of bleed over that one minute, which gets buffed further by our Might stacks.
The question is… Does the new explosion bleed trait have an ICD? If it doesn’t then we might be looking at something awesome. Each throw of 3 grenades with grenadier would proc at least 1 bleed about 40% of the time.
(edited by Wasdclick.1764)
no it doesn’t. and yes, I was capping at 25 stacks of bleed pretty easily by myself with shrapnel grenade and shrapnel trait in pve.
Stacking might in spvp quickly.
The durp, you have to stop dpsing to stack might is a fallacy.
Each ability has a function beyond just might.
At the start of an engagment. Self use H and B, prebuffs. These can be done out of combat. 5-6might, fury, swiftness, retalitation. and prot,or regen, or swift(all three work as prior to engage. putting heal on CD, to be ready when you need it.
Auto elixir b at 75%, +3 might as you start taking damage. (as well as ret, fury, swiftness..)
swap to grenades, or whatever. right after fight starts. +3,
1 second into the fight and we have 11-12 stacks of might with 26s durations, on battle/hgh based. We don’t even have to use elixir R, or the throws.
20s later you will be maintaining 9 from battle, 6 from elixir b, 12 from hgh. without using elixir R or throws. 27 stacks. on two skills you will be spamming every CD anyway. And casual weapon swap. which you should be doing anyway.
sigil of battle, and hgh, you should maintain 20stacks of might without any effort.
(edited by Casia.4281)
I have no idea if he is kidding.
Honestly, though, I don’t like grenades. I leveled pistol/pistol. with discharge. and grenades. but purely for barrage. I never actually would swap to grenades themselves.
I made the mistake at that time of focusing on cond.
I got a full prec/tough/cond set from orr. before I started doing the math, and really gave a zerker/grenade build a shot.
wherein my damage went from 400 to 3000. And I said, “are you —-——, kidding me?”
It became REALLY hard to justify anything else. Even when I gave EG builds, discharge, etc builds a shot. Also learned how strong rifle was in there as well. The KB, and raw damage is very high.A rifle discharge build right now is looking really good. As I said, with grenades down to more reasonable levels, I can justify other builds.
Discharge was buffed indirectly. 9 more stacks of might with sigil of battle. 2 more with hgh buff. so we are sitting on 11 stacks of might now that we didnt have before. 385 power and cond. uh.. yeah. That is a pretty huge buff guys. Even condition builds. Pistols are gaining that on both direct and cond portions.
5% force on offhand I think. for that. Again, so now a p/p discharge build has 385 might, cond, and 5% more damage on discharge and throw wrench.
This is pretty appealing sounding to me.
There is viable builds i guess but again whats your point? is anyone here gonna say actully you cant kill anything with engineer
whatever you do i will do it better ( in pvp) but when you say sigil of battle switch that and that do that keep it that its like you ignoring the fight? global cds what is he doing do you know in a instense fight 9 seconds Went Switch to get might like your invinsible to the enemy or something
Engineer is harder to play but it dosnt feel very rewarding for it
ele is also hard to play but it is actully rewarding
I have no idea if he is kidding.
Honestly, though, I don’t like grenades. I leveled pistol/pistol. with discharge. and grenades. but purely for barrage. I never actually would swap to grenades themselves.
I made the mistake at that time of focusing on cond.
I got a full prec/tough/cond set from orr. before I started doing the math, and really gave a zerker/grenade build a shot.
wherein my damage went from 400 to 3000. And I said, “are you —-——, kidding me?”
It became REALLY hard to justify anything else. Even when I gave EG builds, discharge, etc builds a shot. Also learned how strong rifle was in there as well. The KB, and raw damage is very high.A rifle discharge build right now is looking really good. As I said, with grenades down to more reasonable levels, I can justify other builds.
Discharge was buffed indirectly. 9 more stacks of might with sigil of battle. 2 more with hgh buff. so we are sitting on 11 stacks of might now that we didnt have before. 385 power and cond. uh.. yeah. That is a pretty huge buff guys. Even condition builds. Pistols are gaining that on both direct and cond portions.
5% force on offhand I think. for that. Again, so now a p/p discharge build has 385 might, cond, and 5% more damage on discharge and throw wrench.
This is pretty appealing sounding to me.There is viable builds i guess but again whats your point? is anyone here gonna say actully you cant kill anything with engineer
whatever you do i will do it better ( in pvp) but when you say sigil of battle switch that and that do that keep it that its like you ignoring the fight? global cds what is he doing do you know in a instense fight 9 seconds Went Switch to get might like your invinsible to the enemy or something
Engineer is harder to play but it dosnt feel very rewarding for it
ele is also hard to play but it is actully rewarding
My point.
Grenades were way too strong in pve, and in sustained pvp damage.
that needed to be, and was nerfed. Grenade burst damage was buffed in spvp, pve, and wvw.
Alternative builds which were overshadowed by grenades got a very large buff in sigils, hgh, and sitting duck.
We now have more viable alternatives to grenades.
Sigil of battle. ignoring the fight. hrm. What game are you all playing you don’t swap in and our of your kits like every 8 seconds? Rifle/grenade.
how do I land grenades 90% of the time? Net shot. Overcharged shot.
I rifle auto attack you, immobilize you. barrage. depending on who you are, I might swap to grenades right there, and then drop a frost/shrapnel. Or overcharge you first, knocking you down, then go grenades. Back and forth.
I don’t try hitting moving targets at 1200-1500 with grenades, unless they are completely preoccupied with another target, and don’t see me. aka, wvw.
And seriously, as a someone that has spent alot of time in WvW, in a very competitive guild, with a very high server win records. Grenades were incredibly op in wvw. Not just vs doors. in a large fight, we would use portals, to get the drop on players. Effectively, tab. kill, tab kill, tab kill. spamming massive aoe dps on target, after target. I could kill any siege at any time. solo defend towers by killing rams through doors. As well as players. back when turtles were then thing? give me feedback so my grenades don’t get reflected, and we would break turtles. you didnt need seige. all you needed was chain feedback and 4 engineers.
You aren’t meant to sit in grenades and only grenades.
(edited by Casia.4281)
Grenades were way too strong in pve
No.
They were not.
Only if you compare them to other engi skills. But this is faulty logic. Warriors and guardians kill stuff faster than greandier with several viable builds and more survivability. ’Nades just gave us a good place in parties.
I dunno about pvp, but that’s the reason they splitted the skill in two versions. And spvp is more about burst anyways.
EU Aurora Glade
I have no idea if he is kidding.
Honestly, though, I don’t like grenades. I leveled pistol/pistol. with discharge. and grenades. but purely for barrage. I never actually would swap to grenades themselves.
I made the mistake at that time of focusing on cond.
I got a full prec/tough/cond set from orr. before I started doing the math, and really gave a zerker/grenade build a shot.
wherein my damage went from 400 to 3000. And I said, “are you —-——, kidding me?”
It became REALLY hard to justify anything else. Even when I gave EG builds, discharge, etc builds a shot. Also learned how strong rifle was in there as well. The KB, and raw damage is very high.A rifle discharge build right now is looking really good. As I said, with grenades down to more reasonable levels, I can justify other builds.
Discharge was buffed indirectly. 9 more stacks of might with sigil of battle. 2 more with hgh buff. so we are sitting on 11 stacks of might now that we didnt have before. 385 power and cond. uh.. yeah. That is a pretty huge buff guys. Even condition builds. Pistols are gaining that on both direct and cond portions.
5% force on offhand I think. for that. Again, so now a p/p discharge build has 385 might, cond, and 5% more damage on discharge and throw wrench.
This is pretty appealing sounding to me.There is viable builds i guess but again whats your point? is anyone here gonna say actully you cant kill anything with engineer
whatever you do i will do it better ( in pvp) but when you say sigil of battle switch that and that do that keep it that its like you ignoring the fight? global cds what is he doing do you know in a instense fight 9 seconds Went Switch to get might like your invinsible to the enemy or something
Engineer is harder to play but it dosnt feel very rewarding for it
ele is also hard to play but it is actully rewarding
My point.
Grenades were way too strong in pve, and in sustained pvp damage.
that needed to be, and was nerfed. Grenade burst damage was buffed in spvp, pve, and wvw.
Alternative builds which were overshadowed by grenades got a very large buff in sigils, hgh, and sitting duck.We now have more viable alternatives to grenades.
Sigil of battle. ignoring the fight. hrm. What game are you all playing you don’t swap in and our of your kits like every 8 seconds? Rifle/grenade.
how do I land grenades 90% of the time? Net shot. Overcharged shot.
I rifle auto attack you, immobilize you. barrage. depending on who you are, I might swap to grenades right there, and then drop a frost/shrapnel. Or overcharge you first, knocking you down, then go grenades. Back and forth.
I don’t try hitting moving targets at 1200-1500 with grenades, unless they are completely preoccupied with another target, and don’t see me. aka, wvw.
And seriously, as a someone that has spent alot of time in WvW, in a very competitive guild, with a very high server win records. Grenades were incredibly op in wvw. Not just vs doors. in a large fight, we would use portals, to get the drop on players. Effectively, tab. kill, tab kill, tab kill. spamming massive aoe dps on target, after target. I could kill any siege at any time. solo defend towers by killing rams through doors. As well as players. back when turtles were then thing? give me feedback so my grenades don’t get reflected, and we would break turtles. you didnt need seige. all you needed was chain feedback and 4 engineers.You aren’t meant to sit in grenades and only grenades.
no no you talked like you specced your build into switch to the kit and switch back just waste a gcb FOR Tthe might
and you are now talkign like he is standing still dont have blink / stun breakers – invnisble – dodge
you wright about a great fight how to kill people and things
but dont forget he can blink away and he got stun breakers ? stealth and things
and i do always change kits to use it utlities i use sometimes toolkit for the block and magnet sometimes i use Flamethrower for the napalm and knockback ( the napalm does give high fire dmg ) or the elixir gun
i might have taken it wrong
but i stand still on my point with Ele feels more rewarding the better you get at it while engineer well ..
i am playing right now 10/30/0/30 ( condi / elixir P/P Build ) and sure its viable i think its good
( ill admit nades were OP comapred to all other engi skills it was INSANE but lets face it are we gonna balance the game by looking PVE? i dont mind them nerfing it somehow for dungeons )
Edit: they should fix the Gun skill nr 4 offhand its the same issue with the FT1 Missing
(edited by Kuruptz.4782)
what are you talking about? Every build with a kit should be swapping. That is what kits are for. Engis are built on that. That is why we dont have 12s cooldowns on kit swaps like other classes. We can get that +3 stacks of might on kit swap every 9s. And we are meant to swap in and out of kits.
who is standing still? in wvw? in spvp? My immobilizes/kd are on a shorter CD then his breakers. and take time to activate. Are you saying since CC can be broken, don’t even bother to set up your attacks? No wonder you guys complain…
By buffing shrapnel, barrage, blind, and poison, we are being rewarded for taking our shots more carefully with longer CD skills. You can’t afford to miss these, so take your time, aim them, and be sure to land them.
Play lol, Dota. learn some zoning skills. Project player movement.
Stealth. lol. stealth does not save you from grenades. again, don’t you guys remember the perma rogues in wvw? what worked vs them? Spamming grenade 1.
Blink does. yes. I’ll spend most of my time vs a thief with rifle.
(did you see my, since we don’t get weapon stats on kits, your rifle should be toughness. 179 tough. wvw obviously. spvp doesnt work like that)
(edited by Casia.4281)
what are you talking about? Every build with a kit should be swapping. That is what kits are for. Engis are built on that. That is why we dont have 12s cooldowns on kit swaps like other classes. We can get that +3 stacks of might on kit swap every 9s. And we are meant to swap in and out of kits.
who is standing still? in wvw? in spvp? My immobilizes/kd are on a shorter CD then his breakers. and take time to activate. Are you saying since CC can be broken, don’t even bother to set up your attacks? No wonder you guys complain…
Stealth. lol. stealth does not save you from grenades. again, don’t you guys remember the perma rogues in wvw? what worked vs them? Spamming grenade 1.
dont get me wrong i am doing very very good now as P/P condi elixir engineer, but engineer still aint on a good spot, and nerfing Gnades and saying might stack aint a solution
you found a viable build but you put extra effort while others dont And stealth dosnt save from Nades who are you fighting morons ? you talking Zerg pvp? i am talking 1v1
Kits. kits kits kits and kiits
It dosnt have cooldown ok i though someone said it cant be used as main weaspons like Warrior uses rifle and Greatsword we need to switch
we give up Utility slot already for the 9second cooldown
dosnt seem very balanced when they fix weapon stats on kits another nerf incoming ?
edit: would like to see you in action can you show me a video of you pvping you seem like a god at engineer
(edited by Kuruptz.4782)
what are you talking about? Every build with a kit should be swapping. That is what kits are for. Engis are built on that. That is why we dont have 12s cooldowns on kit swaps like other classes. We can get that +3 stacks of might on kit swap every 9s. And we are meant to swap in and out of kits.
who is standing still? in wvw? in spvp? My immobilizes/kd are on a shorter CD then his breakers. and take time to activate. Are you saying since CC can be broken, don’t even bother to set up your attacks? No wonder you guys complain…
Stealth. lol. stealth does not save you from grenades. again, don’t you guys remember the perma rogues in wvw? what worked vs them? Spamming grenade 1.
dont get me wrong i am doing very very good now as P/P condi elixir engineer, but engineer still aint on a good spot, and nerfing Gnades and saying might stack aint a solution
you found a viable build but you put extra effort while others dont And stealth dosnt save from Nades who are you fighting morons ? you talking Zerg pvp? i am talking 1v1
Kits. kits kits kits and kiits
It dosnt have cooldown ok i though someone said it cant be used as main weaspons like Warrior uses rifle and Greatsword we need to switch
we give up Utility slot already for the 9second cooldown
dosnt seem very balanced when they fix weapon stats on kits another nerf incoming ?
We don’t give up a utility slot. that is what toolbelt skills are for.
Grenades=6skills. rifle 5 skills=11
warrior rifle 5 skills. warrior axe 5 skills.=10
grenades especially should not be sat in, in pvp. They have no hard CC. You could in theory back them up with heavy utility skill CC granted. Net turret, mines, ram.
But really its just better to make use of rifle, again. you can do this any time. other professions need to wait 12 after a swap.
This is why you are an engineer. Like an elementalist swaps all 4 attunements. you should be in and out of kits fairly regularly.
Look at kit refinement. everyone loves that. 10-20s CD on that, depending on the kit.
Then says sigil on swap isn’t? are you guys nuts?
what are you talking about? Every build with a kit should be swapping. That is what kits are for. Engis are built on that. That is why we dont have 12s cooldowns on kit swaps like other classes. We can get that +3 stacks of might on kit swap every 9s. And we are meant to swap in and out of kits.
who is standing still? in wvw? in spvp? My immobilizes/kd are on a shorter CD then his breakers. and take time to activate. Are you saying since CC can be broken, don’t even bother to set up your attacks? No wonder you guys complain…
Stealth. lol. stealth does not save you from grenades. again, don’t you guys remember the perma rogues in wvw? what worked vs them? Spamming grenade 1.
dont get me wrong i am doing very very good now as P/P condi elixir engineer, but engineer still aint on a good spot, and nerfing Gnades and saying might stack aint a solution
you found a viable build but you put extra effort while others dont And stealth dosnt save from Nades who are you fighting morons ? you talking Zerg pvp? i am talking 1v1
Kits. kits kits kits and kiits
It dosnt have cooldown ok i though someone said it cant be used as main weaspons like Warrior uses rifle and Greatsword we need to switch
we give up Utility slot already for the 9second cooldown
dosnt seem very balanced when they fix weapon stats on kits another nerf incoming ?
We don’t give up a utility slot. that is what toolbelt skills are for.
Grenades=6skills. rifle 5 skills=11
warrior rifle 5 skills. warrior axe 5 skills.=10grenades especially should not be sat in, in pvp. They have no hard CC. You could in theory back them up with heavy utility skill CC granted. Net turret, mines, ram.
But really its just better to make use of rifle, again. you can do this any time. other professions need to wait 12 after a swap.This is why you are an engineer. Like an elementalist swaps all 4 attunements. you should be in and out of kits fairly regularly.
Look at kit refinement. everyone loves that. 10-20s CD on that, depending on the kit.Then says sigil on swap isn’t? are you guys nuts?
Ok lets agree with Casia becuse we are engineers we are not ALLOWED to be solid 1V1 like all other proffesions only in teams
thank you very much for your info casia
( so you are saying it dosnt matter if we have good skills as long as they are more give us 90 useless skill give warrior 20 usefull skills )
and can you go online i need to see your superior engineer
(edited by Kuruptz.4782)
I suspect they still believed grenades to be too powerful. After all, most of the forums here were all saying “Grenades are the only viable build for engineer, ever. LOL flamethrower, LOL anything else.” So when they added sigils it buffed all kits by (let’s say for the sake of argument) 10%, and they felt they additionally needed to bring grenades down to match the power of other kits.
Besides, look at it optimistically: they decreased the damage of grenade 1 by 30%, but increased the damage of 3 and 5 by infinity percent!
what are you talking about? Every build with a kit should be swapping. That is what kits are for. Engis are built on that. That is why we dont have 12s cooldowns on kit swaps like other classes. We can get that +3 stacks of might on kit swap every 9s. And we are meant to swap in and out of kits.
who is standing still? in wvw? in spvp? My immobilizes/kd are on a shorter CD then his breakers. and take time to activate. Are you saying since CC can be broken, don’t even bother to set up your attacks? No wonder you guys complain…
Stealth. lol. stealth does not save you from grenades. again, don’t you guys remember the perma rogues in wvw? what worked vs them? Spamming grenade 1.
dont get me wrong i am doing very very good now as P/P condi elixir engineer, but engineer still aint on a good spot, and nerfing Gnades and saying might stack aint a solution
you found a viable build but you put extra effort while others dont And stealth dosnt save from Nades who are you fighting morons ? you talking Zerg pvp? i am talking 1v1
Kits. kits kits kits and kiits
It dosnt have cooldown ok i though someone said it cant be used as main weaspons like Warrior uses rifle and Greatsword we need to switch
we give up Utility slot already for the 9second cooldown
dosnt seem very balanced when they fix weapon stats on kits another nerf incoming ?
We don’t give up a utility slot. that is what toolbelt skills are for.
Grenades=6skills. rifle 5 skills=11
warrior rifle 5 skills. warrior axe 5 skills.=10grenades especially should not be sat in, in pvp. They have no hard CC. You could in theory back them up with heavy utility skill CC granted. Net turret, mines, ram.
But really its just better to make use of rifle, again. you can do this any time. other professions need to wait 12 after a swap.This is why you are an engineer. Like an elementalist swaps all 4 attunements. you should be in and out of kits fairly regularly.
Look at kit refinement. everyone loves that. 10-20s CD on that, depending on the kit.Then says sigil on swap isn’t? are you guys nuts?
Ok lets agree with Casia becuse we are engineers we are not ALLOWED to be solid 1V1 like all other proffesions only in teams
thank you very much for your info casia
( so you are saying it dosnt matter if we have good skills as long as they are more give us 90 useless skill give warrior 20 usefull skills )
I don’t understand. Grenades were not strong 1v1. I never claimed they were. only grenade 1 was nerfed. g2-5 buffed.
every other build was buffed this patch.
We now have more viable builds. how is this a bad thing?
Rifle/discharge? buffed? tankcat? buffed. p/p buffed, flamethrower buffed
elixir gun… ok, bugged super elixir was nerfed. but seriously that was an obvious bug.
Have you tried rifle/discharge/tk with sigil of battle post patch?
ton of burst, ton of CC, fun as heck. Very strong 1v1.
The only person that should be complaining is someone standing still spamming grenade 1 on target dummys. everyone else got buffed this patch.
(edited by Casia.4281)
@Dispari: And they buffed the damage of 2 and 4 in PvP back to pre-november levels, so they got buffed by 15% each.
Now we need to wait for the stat-incorporation to hit us. Yes, there will be a baseline nerf to compensate, but high-end gear will likely still have a world of impact on the final damage level.
what are you talking about? Every build with a kit should be swapping. That is what kits are for. Engis are built on that. That is why we dont have 12s cooldowns on kit swaps like other classes. We can get that +3 stacks of might on kit swap every 9s. And we are meant to swap in and out of kits.
who is standing still? in wvw? in spvp? My immobilizes/kd are on a shorter CD then his breakers. and take time to activate. Are you saying since CC can be broken, don’t even bother to set up your attacks? No wonder you guys complain…
Stealth. lol. stealth does not save you from grenades. again, don’t you guys remember the perma rogues in wvw? what worked vs them? Spamming grenade 1.
dont get me wrong i am doing very very good now as P/P condi elixir engineer, but engineer still aint on a good spot, and nerfing Gnades and saying might stack aint a solution
you found a viable build but you put extra effort while others dont And stealth dosnt save from Nades who are you fighting morons ? you talking Zerg pvp? i am talking 1v1
Kits. kits kits kits and kiits
It dosnt have cooldown ok i though someone said it cant be used as main weaspons like Warrior uses rifle and Greatsword we need to switch
we give up Utility slot already for the 9second cooldown
dosnt seem very balanced when they fix weapon stats on kits another nerf incoming ?
We don’t give up a utility slot. that is what toolbelt skills are for.
Grenades=6skills. rifle 5 skills=11
warrior rifle 5 skills. warrior axe 5 skills.=10grenades especially should not be sat in, in pvp. They have no hard CC. You could in theory back them up with heavy utility skill CC granted. Net turret, mines, ram.
But really its just better to make use of rifle, again. you can do this any time. other professions need to wait 12 after a swap.This is why you are an engineer. Like an elementalist swaps all 4 attunements. you should be in and out of kits fairly regularly.
Look at kit refinement. everyone loves that. 10-20s CD on that, depending on the kit.Then says sigil on swap isn’t? are you guys nuts?
Ok lets agree with Casia becuse we are engineers we are not ALLOWED to be solid 1V1 like all other proffesions only in teams
thank you very much for your info casia
( so you are saying it dosnt matter if we have good skills as long as they are more give us 90 useless skill give warrior 20 usefull skills )
I don’t understand. Grenades were not strong 1v1. I never claimed they were. only grenade 1 was nerfed. g2-5 buffed.
every other build was buffed this patch.We now have more viable builds. how is this a bad thing?
Rifle/discharge? buffed? tankcat? buffed. p/p buffed, flamethrower buffed
elixir gun… ok, bugged super elixir was nerfed. but seriously that was an obvious bug.Have you tried rifle/discharge/tk with sigil of battle post patch?
ton of burst, ton of CC, fun as heck. Very strong 1v1.The only person that should be complaining is someone standing still spamming grenade 1 on target dummys. everyone else got buffed this patch.
oh god come ONLINE MR god jezuz christ
he made engineer to god dude we need a nerf over here MY GOD it sounds like i am about to rule the world
come man jezuz christ mr god my mesmer is waiting to get killed
and calm down HGH Was buffed with 1might stack not one hitting mechanic
(edited by Kuruptz.4782)
kitten did I just read?
Anyway… Engineers, it’s not the end of the world. That comes in 5 days.
We’re the smart profession. We change, we adapt, we’ll build a better tomorrow with our own hands, even given insufficient resources. It’s what we do.
For now, I’m going to enjoy my silly levels of control, because I know for a fact we still got that in spades. We don’t even have much in the way of stuns and dazes, and we’re still annoying things to death.
For everyone raging… Breathe, adapt, conquer. We shouldn’t look at a nerf as a painful thing that makes us impossible to play. We should look it as a challenge. Ranger isn’t for me because I can’t manage pets. If you can’t look at Engineer and say “Challenge Accepted,” then maybe Engineer isn’t for you. And there’s no shame in that.
We’re the smart profession.
Well, no, according to ANet that’s Elementalists.
We don’t give up a utility slot. that is what toolbelt skills are for.
Grenades=6skills. rifle 5 skills=11
warrior rifle 5 skills. warrior axe 5 skills.=10-snip-
Hmm, it’s actually:
Engineer
Main weapon = 5 abilities
Kit = 5 abilities
Toolbelt skill = 1 ability
Warrior
Main weapon = 5 abilities
second weapon = 5 abilities
utility slot = 1 ability
Don’t forget, our kit takes up one slot which other classes get to use as a utility slot. So, it’s actually the same number of abilities with a single kit. However, where the Warrior can choose any 2 weapons plus any utility, our toolbelt skill is linked to our kit, which offers us less options. Also, toolbelt skills on kits are not always equal to utility skills. For instance, no toolbelt skill linked to a kit breaks stuns or removes conditions.
Generally speaking, kit toolbelt skills are also not equivalent to utility skills. If you had a utility skill which only granted regen, like Healing Mist does, would you be happy with that? I wouldn’t, because I have things like Elixir B which grants multiple boons at once. By comparison, that is a weak utility skill, yet it is supposed to match up against full-fledged utility skills from other classes. Signets, shouts, glyphs, traps, cantrips, banners; all are better than any kit toolbelt skill we have, with the exceptions of the big bomb and grenade barrage.
You could say that this is offset by the fact that we could potentially have another 6 abilities by equipping a second kit, but then we’re giving up yet another slot which could otherwise be used for condition removal, stun breaking, or elixir buffs, which in many situations is counterproductive. When we compare this to Elemental attunements, we see that an Elementalist can run with 4x 5 abilities, and still have room for three stun breakers, or 3 glyphs/signets which provide stronger buffs to their character than our own toolbelt skills provide.
Furthermore, the only kit which has any abilities which remove conditions is the EG, and no kit has any abilities which breaks stuns. So, we can’t even look within the kits themselves to find such abilities, to offset the fact that these kits take up utility slots.
You could say that the inferiority of kit toolbelt skills is offset by the fact that kit swapping has no cooldown. I would counter by saying that kit swapping is of no help while I am stunned or knocked down because I had no room for stun breakers. Furthermore, swapping kits is already balanced against something like attunement swapping, because our “on kit swap” abilities have internal cooldowns to prevent them from being spammed.
If kits were “made to be swapped” as you say, then why don’t they work like Elementalist attunements, taking up slots f1-f4, leaving us to choose our own utilities as we see fit?
-Travail.
becuase we aren’t elems. we are slightly different.
And yes, the point I was making, was our toolbelt skill makes up for the utility skill loss.
I did consider making a comment how flamethrower, and EG notably really fail at this, with terrible TB skills.
War also has adrenaline bar. Which is +1 skill based on weapon. While we then have 3 more toolbelts based on utilities.
Which again is a +/-. WAR utility does 1 thing. Each of our utilities do 2. (of varying usefullness.)
Elixir R for example. Stun breaker, refills end, AND reses allies/self, and cleanses.
That utility skill is amazing, and completely craps on pretty much any other utility anyone else has.
The idea here is a bit of the perfect imbalance. you can’t compare apples to oranges.
If kits had 2 or 3 toolbelt skills to choose from. that might be interesting.
Or if FT/eg were buffed.
are you arguing balance or design? They are two different things.
Arguing balance, when bugs are still on the table is a mistake honestly.
As long as deployable turrets doesnt work in pve, engineers are missing a huge aspect of their profession. would be like trying to balance mesmers with phantasms dealinkittenage. You can’t do it until phantasms get sorted.
Sigils and stats on kit are the same deal. fixing sigils was a huge buff in and of itself. We are closer to where we can start talking balance. And 1 day with this patch probably wasn’t enough to really settle on a new understanding of position, as has changed.
All I know for sure is, sigils working buffed us across the board.
(and with medkits, and weapon kits procing weapon swap, equip and dis-equip mind you, On swap sigils seem really strong to me for us.)
So get out there and try some new stuff, and see where we stand.
Btw, I noted you say, swaping doesn’t work for you while stunned.
you can kit swap while stunned. and it procs sigils.
I’m not advocating running with 3 or 4 kits. thats silly.
In theory it should be viable, but our traits are not build like that properly. Something I would like to talk to the devs about. Our trait builds ARE too focused on making 1 and only 1 kit viable.
(edited by Casia.4281)
@Casia.4281
If you are comparing warriors and engineers then you’d better take into account half of our skills are not working as intended or bugged so we got less skills even thought we should be… “versatile”
are you arguing balance or design? They are two different things.
Arguing balance, when bugs are still on the table is a mistake honestly.
As long as deployable turrets doesnt work in pve, engineers are missing a huge aspect of their profession. would be like trying to balance mesmers with phantasms dealinkittenage. You can’t do it until phantasms get sorted.
Well, I tried grenades in-game. Lost about 200~ish dmg per grenade, considering boost from more might stacks and sigils.
Still the best DPS kit for engi.
The point of this nerf still eludes me.
EU Aurora Glade
@Casia.4281
I agree, but then there’s no meaning in argumenting about other classes when it’s clear we need a lot of bug fixes, whoever starts a conversation like this is simply doing it wrong, that is why I hate how we got nerfed instead of having bugs addressed first, again, since launch…
(edited by Rfreak.6591)