Guild Wars 2

why is it that the grenadekit autoattack is so nice to use underwater but on ground it is giving me a typewriter’s cramp.

make the autoattack on ground a usual “target skill” as well. just like underwater.
or you’ll get my doctors bills. :P

and I am not kidding. after 3 dungeons my hand is hurting like crazy. :’(

I know really kitsune, they should give us autotarget/autotarget option for grenade or both.

It used to be auto-target a while ago but the devs thought it was too powerful. It already got a -30% reduction on first skill. So i guess that in order to stop the damage nerf even further, they made it more difficult to use.

Yeah, it kinda sucks. Although even the auto attack underwater is not that useful as the three grenade spread sometimes missing the target. Most likely it will remain like this unless they nerf it again. So pick your poison.

Personally I don’t think the way that Grenade kit currently works well with auto attack because of the spread and ‘chance to miss’. Sometimes it is more useful to use a bit away from the target to hit more people. It is very clunky like most of the Engineer skills needs some more work.

TLDR: Grenade Kit is already our most powerful kit available so I don’t see them making it easier to use. Sometimes making it easier to use makes it not as useful.

its not thakittens not easy to use. the problem i have is that it is completely hindering any form of dynamic gameplay. proper movement + aiming the nades is a drag.

and when i said my arms start to hurt i wasn’t joking. why give such a fun kit souch a bad usability.

kitsuneKyo.6824:

and I am not kidding. after 3 dungeons my hand is hurting like crazy. :’(

aaaand this is why i would never consider grenades in PvE

Yeah, I agree they should give it an auto attack but I also know why one would not want an auto attack due to the spread of the Grenades when you throw them. Even with auto attack underwater they spread out and sometimes miss the selected target. This is further problematic due to the long travel time of Grenades. So targets can move out of the way during the travel time. You cant account for the travel time by leading your target into the attack with an auto attack.

Again, I understand the pain that is associated with spamming Grenades for hours. I got 2000 hrs playing Engineer and I do level 48 fotm almost every day. It is why I mostly run a SD build because of the carpal tunnel from spamming Grenades. The solution to this problem though is a lot more complicated. They would have to fundamentally change the way Grenade Kit works in order for the auto attack to be useful unless fighting a stationary target.

No. Never. There is so much utility to having this be ground targeted. This is a high skill high reward kit. The devs will never make this happen because it’s a bad idea. Just practice. Also, how the hell does your hand hurt doing this? It’s pushing keys! God forbid you have to write an essay in your life time.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

No. Never. There is so much utility to having this be ground targeted. This is a high skill high reward kit. The devs will never make this happen because it’s a bad idea. Just practice. Also, how the hell does your hand hurt doing this? It’s pushing keys! God forbid you have to write an essay in your life time.

People have a terrible habit of excessively mashing keys, which in turn hurts them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Ground-Targeting-AoE-Cast-at-current-target/first#post95080

And many other suggestions like this.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

No. Never. There is so much utility to having this be ground targeted. This is a high skill high reward kit. The devs will never make this happen because it’s a bad idea. Just practice. Also, how the hell does your hand hurt doing this? It’s pushing keys! God forbid you have to write an essay in your life time.

That may be true for buttons 2-5, but for the basic button #1?

The Gates Assassin.9827:

No. Never. There is so much utility to having this be ground targeted. This is a high skill high reward kit. The devs will never make this happen because it’s a bad idea. Just practice. Also, how the hell does your hand hurt doing this? It’s pushing keys! God forbid you have to write an essay in your life time.

might be that I’ve written more diplomas and essays than you ever will…

what i was saying is that it interferes with usual movement mechanics like holding RMB to change directions, turning your view etc.

and having to stretch my finger to the 1-Key all the time while still holding other buttons to move properly is annoying after some time.

The autoattack under water is the worst I’ve seen in this game. If you are not ahead of your opponent they will never hit them. Giving players the option to throw them where the want is a blessing, instead of giving us poor auto aim that rarely hits.

kitsuneKyo.6824:

and I am not kidding. after 3 dungeons my hand is hurting like crazy. :’(

I feel your pain. Literally. It’s the main reason I keep switching between a grenade and a flamethrower build.

Wonderful, they should let us the chance to auto-hit or not.

Yeah I think the solution is to toggle on and off the auto attack. Not sure if we have the tech to do a ground targeting when auto attack is off. Im actually working on a post on how to balance Grenade kit forever. Although its taking a long time cuz im my own worse critic.

Razer nostromo/orb weaver and razer naga is the best thing I could hope for. I know not of these movement issues of which you speak

RaynStargaze.6510:

kitsuneKyo.6824:

and I am not kidding. after 3 dungeons my hand is hurting like crazy. :’(

aaaand this is why i would never consider grenades in PvE

Yep I never used them either it’s completely a waste of time and the thing that baffles me the most is users from other mains will come into these forums and try to justify making a game harder to play for only one class.

Raijinn.9065:

Razer nostromo/orb weaver and razer naga is the best thing I could hope for. I know not of these movement issues of which you speak

I do use one and the ground targeting still causes the problems. Nice try tho.

The fan boys will say it’s area denial. Not really. Truth be told I’m thinking of giving up on this class and going thief or guardian.

tigirius.9014:

Raijinn.9065:

Razer nostromo/orb weaver and razer naga is the best thing I could hope for. I know not of these movement issues of which you speak

I do use one and the ground targeting still causes the problems. Nice try tho.

You need to be more specific. What issues? Only issue I have is my hand definitely feels strained when I’m done playing, but it doesn’t hurt. There were a lot of issues mentioned in this thread, mainly about movement and trying to target/throw nades with a keyboard. Doesn’t mean that the other problems with nades aren’t relevant. All I mentioned was I don’t have these movement issues….because I don’t. My thumb moves the character while my other fingers on the same hand thrown the nades and use all other abilities. Only time I even touch the keyboard is to type

So to you I will say nice try.

JubeiTM.5763:

It used to be auto-target a while ago but the devs thought it was too powerful. It already got a -30% reduction on first skill. So i guess that in order to stop the damage nerf even further, they made it more difficult to use.

ANet painted themselves into a corner with the GM explosives trait, it is the only trait in game (that i know off) that increase damage output of the relevant skills by 50% (you go from 2 grenades to 3). Most you will find elsewhere is a combined total of maybe 25%, if you scrounge together 2+ traits in various lines.

IMO, what ANet could do was for the autoattack to work slightly differently on GT skills. It should make them autofire as long as the button is held down. This allowing you to move the GT circle by moving the mouse, while not having to hammer the keyboard to death. Oh and while doing so it should show the relevant circle so you know when you are out of range or off target.

Yeah, I will never use the grenade kit until it gets fixed and is no longer such a carpal tunnel-inducing nightmare.

Miffinator.3046:

The fan boys will say it’s area denial. Not really. Truth be told I’m thinking of giving up on this class and going thief or guardian.

I am not a true engineer yet. My current engineer is low level but I have actually had a quite a bit of time with the class. That being said unless you really enjoy guardian or thief game play don’t do this. You would just add to the drones of people who did this is sheer frustration. In my eyes engineer is the most advance class in the game. The skills required to run the most complex builds are truly impressive. So many people threaten this cross class that after looking around here for advice I am a bit disheartened. After Anet takes a proper look at engineer balance I think things will be goo enough that you’ll appreciate you leveled the class.

Just my 2 cents.

See the thing is this wasn’t a problem for other titles. The Saboteur on Rift was perfectly fine with not one but three AOE’s bursting with explosions. I never had to target the ground on that one. And no it’s not different because you can do it underwater which means they have the capacity they just don’t want the engineer to have the same fluidity and ease of use (for whatever the weird reason is) as all of the other classes including the mind numbing combat of the ranger. Seriously when will people learn from past mmo development history?

There’s just so much that fixed these problems that other devs have already tried in countless other mmo’s (and learned never to do like DR) that these people are just ignoring. It’s really not that difficult to implement, there’s already a historical precedent for most of the problems this game faces.

I hear skill players can rotate their camera so they throw grenades behind themselves while kiting and running, letting them kite and do decent DPS while doing so. The auto attack would ruin that.

Just make it again on the target, only for PvE, now that PvE and WvW are separated. That would be cool.

1. macro keyboard or macro mouse
2. make 1,pause 20ms,1,pause 800ms ( if fast cast ground 1,pause 500-800ms )
3. use toggle or hold down (toggle is better)

closest you can get to ignoring a fix

and macro for making 1 button pressed is allowed so no worries on ban

EverSeeN.1630:

1. macro keyboard or macro mouse
2. make 1,pause 20ms,1,pause 800ms ( if fast cast ground 1,pause 500-800ms )
3. use toggle or hold down (toggle is better)

closest you can get to ignoring a fix

and macro for making 1 button pressed is allowed so no worries on ban

I wouldn’t be so sure of that if I were you. The rules are (intentionally?) very vague on that.

Guild Wars 2 players are permitted to use macros as long as the macros are programmed with a 1 key for 1 function protocol.
This means that if you program a macro, it must require one keystroke per action. You may not program a single key to perform multiple functions.

Pay close attention to the segment “it must require one keystroke per action”. Throwing two sets of grenades while holding a button, or pressing it once to toggle, can be considered to be in violation of this, as the action would normally have required two keystrokes (or four, if not using fast cast).

Jigain.8231:

EverSeeN.1630:

1. macro keyboard or macro mouse
2. make 1,pause 20ms,1,pause 800ms ( if fast cast ground 1,pause 500-800ms )
3. use toggle or hold down (toggle is better)

closest you can get to ignoring a fix

and macro for making 1 button pressed is allowed so no worries on ban

well i got 8 chars and a legendary , if i get banned for this i can easily wipe the 9k hours played of anet games from my life :P ,

personally i think it is clear what anet is implying what it doesnt want allowed ( saying it from their behalf would be free advertisement for such exploits that cant be countered).
i wont mention them as its not recomended, but im pretty certain that : macros are not allowed for a brainless play/farm.

and frankly , i can send them after ban a medical report of my hand injury from GW spam and diablo 2 frenzy barbarian to understand why i need this to play the game :P..

you worry to much, if you exploiting something you feel it
I wouldn’t be so sure of that if I were you. The rules are (intentionally?) very vague on that.

Guild Wars 2 players are permitted to use macros as long as the macros are programmed with a 1 key for 1 function protocol.
This means that if you program a macro, it must require one keystroke per action. You may not program a single key to perform multiple functions.

Pay close attention to the segment “it must require one keystroke per action”. Throwing two sets of grenades while holding a button, or pressing it once to toggle, can be considered to be in violation of this, as the action would normally have required two keystrokes (or four, if not using fast cast).

and as gaile said :

The best way for a player to kitten whether a specific third-party program could have any impact on another player or a PvP opponent is to ask:

“Does this program allow someone to play faster, better, longer, or more accurately than someone who doesn’t use it?” (NO : its actually worst for knowing when the click happens and where the nade gona land when you use fast cast )

“Does this program allow someone to ‘play’ when he/she is not at the computer?” (NO : since its a single button made for ease. Having 2 separate buttons macro makes a macro COMBO that constitutes a minimal bot that IS bannable)
“Does this program allow the user to gain undeserved rewards?” (NO : simple)

so its pretty safe in my book , and i rarelly use the macro , cause aiming sucks with it , moderation in clicking is where you need to start with nades

The real question is why you are sitting in one kit spamming autoattack.

Punkins.2087:

The real question is why you are sitting in one kit spamming autoattack.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Simple, it is the hardest hitting ranged attack the engineer has available.

And as a aside, to juggle multiple kits (or attunements, as the two come very close) should be a option rather than a requirement.

EverSeeN.1630:

“Does this program allow someone to play faster, better, longer, or more accurately than someone who doesn’t use it?” (NO : its actually worst for knowing when the click happens and where the nade gona land when you use fast cast )

Yes. Someone who is holding a single button or just press it once to do an attack over and over again allows you to play longer than a person who has to consistently spam the same button over and over again. Because eventually that person is going to feel the strain and will have to take a break. Faster is also a conceivable notion, as with a macro, you can set up your abilities to fire to the millisecond of when they’ll be off cooldown.

EverSeeN.1630:

“Does this program allow someone to ‘play’ when he/she is not at the computer?” (NO : since its a single button made for ease. Having 2 separate buttons macro makes a macro COMBO that constitutes a minimal bot that IS bannable)

Yes. Park at a place where you know events are going to happen, place your mouse pointer where mobs will be spawning, press your toggle button or tape your hold button and go to the john. Return five minutes later, collect loot and experience. People were doing this in droves back in the day and got banned for it, IIRC.

I’m not debating whether or not it should be allowed, I’m just saying that unless an official spokesperson for ArenaNet comes out and clearly states that you are allowed to use what is essentially autoclicker bots as long as you’re at the computer (which so far they haven’t), you should generally assume that if you choose to do that chances are pretty high you will get banned if caught. Most of the time, it doesn’t matter what you intend to use it for, it’s what you’re able to use it for.

digiowl.9620:

Simple, it is the hardest hitting ranged attack the engineer has available.

And as a aside, to juggle multiple kits (or attunements, as the two come very close) should be a option rather than a requirement.

If that’s not the gameplay you like, Engineer might not be the class for you. That’s really the whole point. We don’t have weapon swaps, just kit swaps. If you aren’t utilizing that, you’re not playing this class to it’s full potential.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

digiowl.9620:

Simple, it is the hardest hitting ranged attack the engineer has available.

And as a aside, to juggle multiple kits (or attunements, as the two come very close) should be a option rather than a requirement.

If that’s not the gameplay you like, Engineer might not be the class for you. That’s really the whole point. We don’t have weapon swaps, just kit swaps. If you aren’t utilizing that, you’re not playing this class to it’s full potential.

Then perhaps i am playing the wrong game, as i use weapon swap to have both melee and ranged options on hand in a fight. I do not pack on multiple melee so that i can chain the big hitters from various sets together.

Similarly i run multiple kits for flexibility of options, not to chain together the big booms of each kit in a ongoing alpha strike.

And this is why i advocate that CC durations and healing power modifiers need to be sharply increased in PVE. Because as long as they are not, the consensus seems to be that only DPS is the way to go.

Jigain.8231:

EverSeeN.1630:

“Does this program allow someone to play faster, better, longer, or more accurately than someone who doesn’t use it?” (NO : its actually worst for knowing when the click happens and where the nade gona land when you use fast cast )

Yes. Someone who is holding a single button or just press it once to do an attack over and over again allows you to play longer than a person who has to consistently spam the same button over and over again. Because eventually that person is going to feel the strain and will have to take a break. Faster is also a conceivable notion, as with a macro, you can set up your abilities to fire to the millisecond of when they’ll be off cooldown.

EverSeeN.1630:

“Does this program allow someone to ‘play’ when he/she is not at the computer?” (NO : since its a single button made for ease. Having 2 separate buttons macro makes a macro COMBO that constitutes a minimal bot that IS bannable)

Yes. Park at a place where you know events are going to happen, place your mouse pointer where mobs will be spawning, press your toggle button or tape your hold button and go to the john. Return five minutes later, collect loot and experience. People were doing this in droves back in the day and got banned for it, IIRC.

I’m not debating whether or not it should be allowed, I’m just saying that unless an official spokesperson for ArenaNet comes out and clearly states that you are allowed to use what is essentially autoclicker bots as long as you’re at the computer (which so far they haven’t), you should generally assume that if you choose to do that chances are pretty high you will get banned if caught. Most of the time, it doesn’t matter what you intend to use it for, it’s what you’re able to use it for.

agreed,

although using macro to A><F><K and using macro on a fight like dragon boss where sometimes you want to fight like you do on the other 7 classes ( lock and move/dodge) on one of the coolest kits of engi (imo) has a pretty big gap in between

either way if gaile meant that only macro allowed is 1 button 1 function meaning that you do 1 thing then… thats not a macro , thats a button ^^.

point is iafter some fractal runs it appears that a macro is not rly needed, just ppl like me with overexitement need to press buttons less

the best thing we can do is if something is beeing abused , report it!

Yes. Someone who is holding a single button or just press it once to do an attack over and over again allows you to play longer than a person who has to consistently spam the same button over and over again. Because eventually that person is going to feel the strain and will have to take a break. Faster is also a conceivable notion, as with a macro, you can set up your abilities to fire to the millisecond of when they’ll be off cooldown.

I have to disagree. You still have to be here to target with your mouse. Yes, even if it’s PVE, enemies do move, sometimes at least, so you can’t actually play longer.

Yes. Park at a place where you know events are going to happen, place your mouse pointer where mobs will be spawning, press your toggle button or tape your hold button and go to the john. Return five minutes later, collect loot and experience. People were doing this in droves back in the day and got banned for it, IIRC.

Yeah totally agree on this one. But I think the point in this thread is far from that, what you describe is an actual use of botting (even if short term), what the thread suggested what to keep playing while macro is being used.

although using macro to A><F><K and using macro on a fight like dragon boss where sometimes you want to fight like you do on the other 7 classes ( lock and move/dodge) on one of the coolest kits of engi (imo) has a pretty big gap in between

^This.
Other classes can do this without getting banned, without having to target, and so was originally the engineer able to.

either way if gaile meant that only macro allowed is 1 button 1 function meaning that you do 1 thing then… thats not a macro , thats a button ^^.

Absolutely true. A “macro” which does not do anything more than pressing one key can NOT be called a macro. Just a key, extra key or same key but not at the same place, depending on how you look at it.

Honestly, if people get banned for that especially that Anet does not officially answer to this, that’s bullkitten and unprofessional imo.

KratosAngel.7289:

Yes. Someone who is holding a single button or just press it once to do an attack over and over again allows you to play longer than a person who has to consistently spam the same button over and over again. Because eventually that person is going to feel the strain and will have to take a break. Faster is also a conceivable notion, as with a macro, you can set up your abilities to fire to the millisecond of when they’ll be off cooldown.

I have to disagree. You still have to be here to target with your mouse. Yes, even if it’s PVE, enemies do move, sometimes at least, so you can’t actually play longer.

“Longer” in this context is referring to the fact that a person who continually press a button every ~1 second will eventually feel a strain in the finger used to press that button, and will need to take a break to recover. In comparison, a person who holds the button down or presses it once to simulate it being pressed continuously does not feel the strain to the same extent, if at all, and as such will be able to do the same action for longer. Whether you need to move the mouse or not is entirely irrelevant in this context.

KratosAngel.7289:

either way if gaile meant that only macro allowed is 1 button 1 function meaning that you do 1 thing then… thats not a macro , thats a button ^^.

Absolutely true. A “macro” which does not do anything more than pressing one key can NOT be called a macro. Just a key, extra key or same key but not at the same place, depending on how you look at it.

That is accurate, but the accuracy quickly diminishes past that one function. If you have a macro that simulates key #1 for every 1000ms you keep the button pressed, and you keep it pressed for just one second, the character does its #1 attack once. This is fine, it’s one keystroke for one function. But the key question is, if you hold the button down for 2 seconds, and the character does two attacks, is it then two functions for one keystroke? Or does the same attack constitute as only one function no matter how many times it’s called? Without ANet clarifying this, we’ll never know, and we might be either giving up the easiest (though not most efficient) way of playing with the weapon kit, or risk being banned because we don’t want to suffer the strain that every other weapon setup for every other profession doesn’t have to deal with.

Do you guys figure it is possible to bind the attack to mousewheel? You wouldn’t need to tap anymore, just scroll?

Cause indeed, why can’t we just auto-lock target like other classes… it would be so much fairer. Grenades:
- are the highest dmg we have
- take precious seconds to reach the target area, so often miss cause of that
- are hard to point to the right spot
- anticipation is a must (unlike other classes)
- we need to keep tapping the same button all the time, while other classes can just auto-attack

^this sum-up makes it look as if Anet deliberately wants engineer to fail.

Unless they’ve changed it since launch, scroll wheel cannot be bound in-game, so you’d have to redefine the scroll wheel in your mouse’s software to mimic another key instead.

That said, I often feel the need to adjust my camera on the fly. Not sure if it’s just me, but as I play it seems boss events and such cause my camera to zoom progressively further in. Not to mention some jumping puzzles are easier while zoomed in a bit. Personally I couldn’t give up the scroll wheel.

Aw, so scroll wheel is no solution either… well then our only option is to hope Anet reads this thread and does something about it.

I just tried to find other solutions for this problem, but it won’t let me link the attack to mouse 1-mouse 2 or the scroll wheel. There is also no other way to make it attack with an easier way or auto-attack.

Sirendor.1394:

I just tried to find other solutions for this problem, but it won’t let me link the attack to mouse 1-mouse 2 or the scroll wheel. There is also no other way to make it attack with an easier way or auto-attack.

It should! I set my attack button #1 to the mouse wheel (pressed). Now I can easily aim like this while moving in any direction, easy turning the camera and hitting backwards while running away.

It’d be a miracle if engineers were ever buffed or had their abilities and kits fixed.

The downside to the perks GK brings is that you have to use ground targeting making it a “skill shot”. If they made grenades auto target they would have to nerf the kit into the ground. 3 hits(trait) per attack, 1500 range(same trait), great direct dps, and condi stacking without the downside of ground targeting would be OP.

Ground targeting is not hard to LEARN or use so please stop making absurd threads like this centered around destroying one of our best kits.

For me, staying in grenade kit for anything other than freeze, poison, blind, bleed is just a waste.

Maybe ANet could could have the ground target reticle appear on the down press of the (any ground targetable) skill and the attack go off on the release of the button? Then you could see when you start to cast, where your spell will land (this is what I had hoped would happen when I turned on the fast cast in the options).

What would be great is if we could actually have this fixed and actually have grenades when we’re in a downed position in PVE.

I use grenade kit a lot & love it. I aim by actually putting the mouse where I want the grenades to go, hold down right click & do my kiting/running around/turning knowing exactly where the grenades are going, releasing the right click when I need to make adjustments, but the way it functions is fine with me. If it become auto-target/attack (which I don’t want), it would defiantly have to be nerfed.