I would much rather nades be a bit more skill based and the damage/cond it has now than have it nerfed to the ground with auto-target. You can’t have both.
A notion I’ve had with thinking about the ground casting would be to try to find a compromise between the flexibility of “anywhere” casting and the desire to have an auto-target. What we really need is a target “snap”. As with all snap functions in CAD or other software, it’s usually toggleable, so those that choose to continue life as normal can have that ability. However a target snap would instantly either move the pointer, or put the reticule at the foot of the currently targeted object. Once snapped there, could be moved or adjusted by hand. Or you could just leave it there and release.
I think that’d be a decent compromise myself. I don’t mind the button pushing, but I frequently lose my mouse pointer in the chaos of graphical effects that are going on. This doesn’t just affect grenades, but any ground targeted effect (thrown elixirs, etc). I know I’ve had more than a few Elixir R’s gone astray because my mouse pointer was not exactly where I wanted it when I threw it at the downed person and it ended splattering against a wall or somewhere else useless.
The framework for such a snap could be in the game already.
While exploring a annoying bug regarding ground targeting and the UI (resting the mouse on anything opaque makes the target circle appear under your characters feet rather than where the mouse would be in the game world), i found that putting the mouse on the targeting readout of a mob (top center of the screen while having a target set) rather than the skill firing the circle would vanish and a “out of range” message would display.
This even if i was standing right on top of the mob targeted, and the camera was facing the ground (the circle should be right in front of me).
So it could be that ANet toyed with a target “snap” by having us put the mouse over the targeting data, but never fully implemented it, and somehow the leftover code is not disabled.
Currently, giving “Autohit” would require serious nerfs to the Grenade Kit. I would prefer just distributing Grenade Kits overwhelming power amongst the other Kits. I just want some build diversity…
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I actually greatly enjoy grenades being ground-target. I was in WvW today and -just- managed to catch a corner of an enemy catapult close to a wall. If it were auto-target, I wouldn’t have been able to hit the thing without exposing myself to retaliation from 6+ enemies, but being able to pinpoint where I wanted them to go allowed me to hold off their entire team from a corner of a wall until reinforcements arrived.
A snap-target that could be enabled or disabled would work for me, but I’m afraid that it would require a nerf to grenades in general, which is something I’d really not like to see.
“entitled”: Ad Hominem fallacy condensed to a single word.
Wow, I don’t understand people saying that auto-attack on grenades would make them OP and would require an unwanted nerf.
First to know is that request to have auto-attack on grenades is mostly for PvE obvious reasons, I fail to see how that would be OP.
Now if you look at it, grenades are far, far more OP while ground targetted in WvW. See this whole zerg moving ? Yeah ! Let’s melt them down with grenades in the middle ! No need to target any of these dudes and bother selecting another target when the latest dies, just spam stuff where you want !
I would not speak for sPvP since I haven’t tried it but I guess the problem would probably be there, I’ll let it to those who know.
So, basically, the auto-attack can be done in PvE and maybe in WvW without being in sPvP since they splitted skills. But honestly, because of what I said, auto-attack in WvW would be more of a slight nerf imo, but it is so much needed in PvE.
autotarget would be OP I agree, but I would very much like to be able to enable auto attack- that is, after firing the first grenade, I can continue launching the #1 grenade just by clicking on the ground a second time, not having to mash #1 between clicks- this would make it so much easier to move, while not making it too easy to target. Use of #2-5 would require one of my fingers migrate north, but this way I could continue to move reliably while at least launching AN attack without the use of a third hand.
[VIG], SoR
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Doctorate in Applied Jumping
Yes, the ability to turn auto attack on or off would be a fantastic addition to grenade kits #1 attack.
I remember running CoE with grenade kit one time, and I had to change grenade kit out half way through just because my finger was hurting way too much from #1 spam.
Although I’m not expecting a positive and intelligent change like this for months, because it’s ArenaNet.
A snap-target that could be enabled or disabled would work for me, but I’m afraid that it would require a nerf to grenades in general, which is something I’d really not like to see.
It seems to me that this is a really telling concern about the attack. If a BASIC KIT ATTACK (not talking about some elaborate combo of 4-6 skills, but a basic attack) is only balanced by the fact that it’s a pain in the kitten to use — if it were easier to use or more accessible it would be overpowered, then I’d have to say that’s a really kittening bad design and should be FIXED.
Look I get it, the profession as a whole has been knocked around with patches, the traits and this is the ONE THING that seems to still work for high damage. I would not want to see a damage reduction associated with it, and would like to see other profession capabilities raised to this level. But to argue to keep something at a bad design because it works for some folks but not others just seems wrong to me as a REAL engineer.
I think Grenade Kit will get nerfed regardless tbh. If we are lucky we will find out during the State of Game.
Either way, I think a auto fire would be nice but no auto aiming mechanic.
Watching all the tournaments in the last some days, the golden age of the HGH is over. Grenade kit is not the first choice for many engineers right now. I think this is a hint that the grenades are not overpowered. More and more top player are going for FT+bomb. In the 1on1 tournament not a single engineer worked with nades.
A snap-target that could be enabled or disabled would work for me, but I’m afraid that it would require a nerf to grenades in general, which is something I’d really not like to see.
It seems to me that this is a really telling concern about the attack. If a BASIC KIT ATTACK (not talking about some elaborate combo of 4-6 skills, but a basic attack) is only balanced by the fact that it’s a pain in the kitten to use — if it were easier to use or more accessible it would be overpowered, then I’d have to say that’s a really kittening bad design and should be FIXED.
Actually, i think ANet is using physical interaction as a balancing element. Notice the rigidity of weapon skill positions, never mind that they rearranged a guardian set because it was too easy to just 1-2-3 your way down the row.
It would have to be nerfed for PVP but it definitely does not need to be nerfed for PVE in fact it needs a buff when my Asuran ranger can three shot enemies with just his traps but engineers have to throw about 10 grenades avg to do the same in PVE it’s time to buff them.
The Saboteur in Rift took only 6 button presses to do anything 3 for the stacking of the bombs on an enemy, 1 for the first AOE, 1 for the second AOE and then explode the stacks.
Pistols are about the same on here in PVE. Using a build that doesn’t stack might or vuln count the numer of times you attack the next time you’re in Orr.
Grenades need a PVE buff and the #1 ability needs to tab target.
Actually, i think ANet is using physical interaction as a balancing element. Notice the rigidity of weapon skill positions, never mind that they rearranged a guardian set because it was too easy to just 1-2-3 your way down the row.
RSI should never be a tool for balance. You shouldn’t design a part of the game around the idea of causing what is considered an injury in medical terms to the players. I don’t normally criticize ANet, their staff, or how their game is designed… but if that is the case, someone is a sadistic kitten and should not be permitted to make decisions on anything that requires interaction from other humans.
Le edit: On a brighter note, I would actually be satisfied if someone at ANet just came out and said “hey guys, we realize RSI is a problem, and just wanted to let you know that until we find a better solution, you are permitted to make and use a macro that keeps using the grenade kit #1 skill while your chosen button is pressed.” That would be satisfactory. Not ideal, but good enough.
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Actually, i think ANet is using physical interaction as a balancing element. Notice the rigidity of weapon skill positions, never mind that they rearranged a guardian set because it was too easy to just 1-2-3 your way down the row.
RSI should never be a tool for balance. You shouldn’t design a part of the game around the idea of causing what is considered an injury in medical terms to the players. I don’t normally criticize ANet, their staff, or how their game is designed… but if that is the case, someone is a sadistic kitten and should not be permitted to make decisions on anything that requires interaction from other humans.
Le edit: On a brighter note, I would actually be satisfied if someone at ANet just came out and said “hey guys, we realize RSI is a problem, and just wanted to let you know that until we find a better solution, you are permitted to make and use a macro that keeps using the grenade kit #1 skill while your chosen button is pressed.” That would be satisfactory. Not ideal, but good enough.
^So much this. I don’t even know if that could be legal in NA (I know that people in NA charge companies for some odd reasons so I don’t know :P).
And also, it would not be a balance around players because some players, who don’t care about their fingers’ health would spam more and more while people who care about their fingers would stop …
Actually, i think ANet is using physical interaction as a balancing element. Notice the rigidity of weapon skill positions, never mind that they rearranged a guardian set because it was too easy to just 1-2-3 your way down the row.
RSI should never be a tool for balance. You shouldn’t design a part of the game around the idea of causing what is considered an injury in medical terms to the players. I don’t normally criticize ANet, their staff, or how their game is designed… but if that is the case, someone is a sadistic kitten and should not be permitted to make decisions on anything that requires interaction from other humans.
Le edit: On a brighter note, I would actually be satisfied if someone at ANet just came out and said “hey guys, we realize RSI is a problem, and just wanted to let you know that until we find a better solution, you are permitted to make and use a macro that keeps using the grenade kit #1 skill while your chosen button is pressed.” That would be satisfactory. Not ideal, but good enough.
^So much this. I don’t even know if that could be legal in NA (I know that people in NA charge companies for some odd reasons so I don’t know :P).
And also, it would not be a balance around players because some players, who don’t care about their fingers’ health would spam more and more while people who care about their fingers would stop …
and the third group who buy a top-of-the-line mouse with all the number keys on the side to avoid the issue alltogether
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Main: Asuran Engineer — Alt 80’s Ra-T-M-G-El-N-W-En-En-Re-Ra
Doctorate in Applied Jumping
Yeah, have fun with that. Depending on how long and often you play your grenadier, I give you everything between a day to a month before you wish your thumb was made of metal and not flesh and bone.
I have a G600.
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Yeah, have fun with that. Depending on how long and often you play your grenadier, I give you everything between a day to a month before you wish your thumb was made of metal and not flesh and bone.
I have a G600.
After a week or two you should be able to put in 10 hours or more without noticing (if you play games that much). I have been using mine for months and I have no problems playing for any extended period of time. The first couple of weeks I had to play through the pain but it was worth it lol.
Buying a 100+ €/$ should not be the solution to such a bad design. Anyway, it wouldn’t change anything since, as Jigain said, it’s now your thumb that will suffer after some time, it’s bound to happen.
Honestly, there’s absolutely no reason not to do it for PvE in a first time and then think about solutions for PvP/WvW if necessary.
I, personally, like the ground based aoe auto attack better on the grenade kit. Having it ground target gives a better feel and more accuracy dependent on you.
Comparing with speed of the grenade hitting the target, I personally find it feel like its as slow as the Guardian’s scepter auto attack. If you make the grenade kit’s auto attack just like that, the grenade kit will be unviable and dead just like the kit refinement.
Having the grenade kit’s auto attack and all the other 5 skills(including the tool belt) as a ground target aoe is fine as it is.
I don’t care about an Auto-Attack.. but give me the option to hold down the 1 button to fire off grenades everytime they are available at the targeted bit of ground.
I don’t care about an Auto-Attack.. but give me the option to hold down the 1 button to fire off grenades everytime they are available at the targeted bit of ground.
There is actually, something similar. There is an option in the menu and check the box on the auto-cast ground target, iirc. Using the phone at the moment.
Instead of clicking, it auto-casts where your mouse is.
Currently the grenade kit is the only kind of weapon that has no skills that can be put on auto-attack for you to rest your finger for even a second or three during combat. Whether the solution is auto-attack or not is irrelevant, the issue is the lack of pause. It induces a state very much similar to other repetitive strain injuries such as carpal tunnel syndrome, gamer’s thumb, tennis elbow, and tendinitis, in which the act of moving the appendix in question becomes painful due to the quick and non-stop wear and tear on your tendons, and may require medical treatment including, but not limited to, drug therapy combined with physical therapy.
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It’s very noticeable as well that not only does this cause a strain but that the damage output of the #1 ability is nowhere near the attacks of say the frost grenades. The 33% nerf is still very much present in the PVE areas and needs to be corrected.
I don’t care about an Auto-Attack.. but give me the option to hold down the 1 button to fire off grenades everytime they are available at the targeted bit of ground.
There is actually, something similar. There is an option in the menu and check the box on the auto-cast ground target, iirc. Using the phone at the moment.
Instead of clicking, it auto-casts where your mouse is.
You’re thinking about “fast-cast ground target”. It basically removes the targeting circle and have the skills fire on first press rather than second.
What Ratty is talking about is being able to hold down say 1 (imo, it should apply to whatever ground targeted skill is set as auto-attack), and have it fire repeatedly as long as the button is being held. This rather than having to repeatedly press it for each attack as we have to do now.
This should allow us to see the targeting circle and adjust it while also avoid having to hammer that key to death.
the 2 grenades of each thing are combined into 1 direct damage suffering a -10% nerf but giving better accuracy due to the projectile speed…. The trait could be changed so instead of a 3rd grenade like now it turns the projectile into a cluster grenade that hits them and explodes into 2 smaller grenades that do the same effect….
Honestly I think it would be much more fun to shoot grenades at people that explode and do small aoes instead of throw something that you have to bust your kitten to aim and 1-2 of them still still likely miss.
edit
also I forgot to mention the 10% damage nerf I suggested is just because it would compinsate the bonus accuracy.
Interesting Suggestion Dakiaris. I actually had a similar thing in mind but lets keep the discussion on the auto attack. Make a new thread for that suggestion.
[sarcsm on]They won’t care since it’s a “minority” of people posting here, they look atthe figures and see that it’s being used so they won’t care.
Ah, nvm, they will fix it : nerf grenade kit so nobody uses it anymore, no more complain from this :P
[sarcasm off]
More seriously, I still don’t think they will fix it, even only for PvE while it would cause absolutely no balancing issue. And they did say in previous SotG that they would probably have to nerf the grenade kit.
Personally, I have shelved my engineer and wont play it ever until they fix it.
They need to fix this and our burst DPS trait options. I know they wanted us to be a soldier class originally but cmon.
Even underwater movement makes the standard tab targetting miss sometimes so it’s not like it wouldn’t work like normal.
I also hope they make their flight faster and increase the speed of pistols because everything seems to attack as slowly as a rifle and that’s hardly realistic.
We’ve got pistols firing… fire.
We’ve got rifles firing nets.
We’ve got grenades filled with ice.
We’ve got shields AND wrenches that act like boomerangs.
We’ve got bombs filled with glue.
And you’re complaining that it isn’t realistic a bullet fired from a pistol travels at the same speed as a bullet fired from a rifle? Or is it the firing speed you’re referring to?
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I hear skill players can rotate their camera so they throw grenades behind themselves while kiting and running, letting them kite and do decent DPS while doing so. The auto attack would ruin that.
No.
No one of the so called “skill” players you obviosly dont know has the time to use that crap skill, the damage is a joke and you have plenty of other tools to use before you use #1 fron the grenades.
Actually, i think ANet is using physical interaction as a balancing element. Notice the rigidity of weapon skill positions, never mind that they rearranged a guardian set because it was too easy to just 1-2-3 your way down the row.
RSI should never be a tool for balance. You shouldn’t design a part of the game around the idea of causing what is considered an injury in medical terms to the players. I don’t normally criticize ANet, their staff, or how their game is designed… but if that is the case, someone is a sadistic kitten and should not be permitted to make decisions on anything that requires interaction from other humans.
Le edit: On a brighter note, I would actually be satisfied if someone at ANet just came out and said “hey guys, we realize RSI is a problem, and just wanted to let you know that until we find a better solution, you are permitted to make and use a macro that keeps using the grenade kit #1 skill while your chosen button is pressed.” That would be satisfactory. Not ideal, but good enough.
^So much this. I don’t even know if that could be legal in NA (I know that people in NA charge companies for some odd reasons so I don’t know :P).
And also, it would not be a balance around players because some players, who don’t care about their fingers’ health would spam more and more while people who care about their fingers would stop …
and the third group who buy a top-of-the-line mouse with all the number keys on the side to avoid the issue alltogether
This tool is a must have for beeing an engineer and not just for nades. Its so important that i would even say its recuirement to have success with this class.
