Guild Wars 2

I can’t wait until Grenadier is fixed and brought back in early September.

ok, grenade barrage onshot is a bug, but whats about shatter mesmer which can hit u from 100% down to 25% instantly? THIS IS NO BUG but seems ok for you, and there is no reason to nerf it?!
Or guardian burn, 10stacks+ you go down within 3-5 sec, also seems balanced?

good job
/15schars

mov.1246:

ok, grenade barrage onshot is a bug, but whats about shatter mesmer which can hit u from 100% down to 25% instantly? THIS IS NO BUG but seems ok for you, and there is no reason to nerf it?!
Or guardian burn, 10stacks+ you go down within 3-5 sec, also seems balanced?

You’re playing the wrong MMO if you want balance.

Thank you!
/15 chars

Crapgame.6519:

Do what Frankie does and Relax.

Lmao, ikr?

mov.1246:

ok, grenade barrage onshot is a bug, but whats about shatter mesmer which can hit u from 100% down to 25% instantly? THIS IS NO BUG but seems ok for you, and there is no reason to nerf it?!
Or guardian burn, 10stacks+ you go down within 3-5 sec, also seems balanced?

all those other things require 3-4 skills worth of setup and timing

GB took 1 skill and did more damage.

Celwina.2598:

mov.1246:

ok, grenade barrage onshot is a bug, but whats about shatter mesmer which can hit u from 100% down to 25% instantly? THIS IS NO BUG but seems ok for you, and there is no reason to nerf it?!
Or guardian burn, 10stacks+ you go down within 3-5 sec, also seems balanced?

You’re playing the wrong MMO if you want balance.

There is no ‘right’ MMO for balance, although I’m sure the grass looks greener on the other side.

MMOs are about fun first and balance second. If you want balance, go play checkers.

Buff turrets!!

I had my best game as eng last night, without using grenades and adapting (slowly) to the changes.

Don’t use the kitten gay trait, but playing against it made me a better player.

They took our turrets
They took our mortars
They took our grenades

pray to god they wont take our blasts and water fields.

Celwina.2598:

I can’t wait until Grenadier is fixed and brought back in early September.

That’s really what is at the heart of what has me bothered.

If it needed fixed that’s fine. I have never been a big PvP’er or WvW’er, so i never really noticed this bug, and certainly wasn’t exploiting. I was just using the same build I have always used as dungeoneer (or at least the new version of it). And when a net says: “temporarily disabled until the next scheduled release” I get mad, cause I know what that means: “We see that it needs fixed, but we have more important things to do like make some more outfits for the gem store. So we are just going to turn it off until we feel like getting around to fixing it, maybe sometime next year.”

All the people talking about how we have other viable options like bomb kit and whatnot really don’t know what they are talking about. Grenade is are main DPS kit. No other kit or weapon can even come close to the damage of Grenades, (yes, that is a problem, as I have said before: we need other viable options, but Nerfing Grenades doesn’t make those other options more viable, it just flat our nerfs our damage) and I am not talking about grenades with some multiplier or piercing glitch. Engineers are just barely accepted as good for dungeon groups, but without grenades you are going to see us outright rejected. And yes, the grenadier trait is that important, if anything just because it helps us actually land all our grenade attacks, and thus put out our full damage. No dungeon group worth their salt is going to accept any person who is incapable of putting out their full amount of damage.

Celwina.2598:
I can’t wait until Grenadier is fixed and brought back in early September.

Yup traits will be fixed September, HoT released by Christmas 2015/2016? BTW before all the qquing happened about nerf this/ OP this, why couldnt we just let the dust settle enjoy EVERYTHING the classes got some more than others but all the classes got some really nice buffs. Now with all the complaining and such we will be back to the old META in no time.

Gern.2978:

Celwina.2598:

I can’t wait until Grenadier is fixed and brought back in early September.

That’s really what is at the heart of what has me bothered.

If it needed fixed that’s fine. I have never been a big PvP’er or WvW’er, so i never really noticed this bug, and certainly wasn’t exploiting. I was just using the same build I have always used as dungeoneer (or at least the new version of it). And when a net says: “temporarily disabled until the next scheduled release” I get mad, cause I know what that means: “We see that it needs fixed, but we have more important things to do like make some more outfits for the gem store. So we are just going to turn it off until we feel like getting around to fixing it, maybe sometime next year.”

All the people talking about how we have other viable options like bomb kit and whatnot really don’t know what they are talking about. Grenade is are main DPS kit. No other kit or weapon can even come close to the damage of Grenades, (yes, that is a problem, as I have said before: we need other viable options, but Nerfing Grenades doesn’t make those other options more viable, it just flat our nerfs our damage) and I am not talking about grenades with some multiplier or piercing glitch. Engineers are just barely accepted as good for dungeon groups, but without grenades you are going to see us outright rejected. And yes, the grenadier trait is that important, if anything just because it helps us actually land all our grenade attacks, and thus put out our full damage. No dungeon group worth their salt is going to accept any person who is incapable of putting out their full amount of damage.

Grenades are fine. We’re number 2 in theoretical damage, it’s tough to actually do it, but we’re sitting quite pretty on the damage side. If you’re a dungeoneer you should be using Glass Cannon not Grenadier even when it comes back.

Rotation is something like: Incendiary Ammo → Grenade Barrage → Napalm → Flame Blast → Acid Bomb → Jump Shot → Blunderbuss → Shrapnel Grenade → Freeze Grenade → Poison Grenade → Flame Blast… then continue to nade spam in between your big hitters.

Nades are still awesome, still the best choice, still the best damage for PVE, namely dungeons/fractals.

Josh Davis.6015:

Due to its current unintended behavior, the Grenadier trait has been temporarily disabled until the next scheduled release. If you were using this trait, we suggest you select a different one until the trait is re-enabled.

Josh, this is the second trait they have disabled… and announcing it in the profession forums; not in the main forum areas, and not in the game client where they make major announcements

There are lots of people who dont come to the forums, and even those that do don’t monitor the profession areas.

Don’t you think it would be wise to make these announcements in the game client so people who dont frequent forums arent being left ignorant?

biofrog.1568:

Hmm.. and here I was thinking they wouldn’t just disable Grenadier since it is so central to a Grenade Kit engineer, and engineer as a class itself. Guess I was wrong.

Guess I will also be shelving my engie until they fix the trait
I feel sorry for those who main an engie, but I guess you can go try some other builds for now.

f
I am an engi main, since beta, and i can honestly say that although this sucks it doesn’t make engi unplayable. Infact i still think that it is one of the stronger pvp classes at the moment. Before this update people used grenades at that radius and velocity all the time, even if they aren’t 1500 range anymore rarely did you hit anyting at that distance solidly anyway. If there were better options it wouldn’t even be a big deal. But glass cannon is very underwehlming and the other is a fall damage trait. Honestly I am more upset by the fact that i don’t have my predator effects anymore

How are people getting “we’ll fix it when we get around to it” from “until the next scheduled release”?

blastingmnktpoo.9637:

biofrog.1568:

Hmm.. and here I was thinking they wouldn’t just disable Grenadier since it is so central to a Grenade Kit engineer, and engineer as a class itself. Guess I was wrong.

Guess I will also be shelving my engie until they fix the trait
I feel sorry for those who main an engie, but I guess you can go try some other builds for now.

f
I am an engi main, since beta, and i can honestly say that although this sucks it doesn’t make engi unplayable. Infact i still think that it is one of the stronger pvp classes at the moment. Before this update people used grenades at that radius and velocity all the time, even if they aren’t 1500 range anymore rarely did you hit anyting at that distance solidly anyway. If there were better options it wouldn’t even be a big deal. But glass cannon is very underwehlming and the other is a fall damage trait. Honestly I am more upset by the fact that i don’t have my predator effects anymore

They should enable all grenades to have the pred effects!

Just want to get one thing off my chest…

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Cracks me up all those people that were defending this swearing up and down it wasn’t a bug and was intended. Omg, good thread. Not everyone knows either. Still have Engi’s getting shocked when their Grenade Barrage doesn’t one shot me and they get wasted.

Mork vom Ork.2598:

Esplen.3940:

mysticsicness.7598:

It would be fine if it was not for the trait being such a CORE MECHANIC!!! Might as well say “reroll untill next patch.”

All builds revolve around grenades?

Sadly most of them do. I’d say at least 90% of engineers had the grenade kit in their skill bar, and that was true even before the buggy patch.
Main reason is, most other kits/weapons suck. Bombs would be an alternative if their range had not been castrated.
We need some viable alternatives that are not niche builds (like SD glass cannon).

Truth is you really don’t need to take the explosive trait for the grenades now. 3 grenades on default. Grenades are mostly tossed within 300~500 range in PVP anyway.
It’s like the old Grenade, not much changed.

Btw, saying other kits suck show that you know very little about engi. Tool kit has been a stable choice for many engis for a long time. So does bomb kit in PVP. Turret engi takes elixir gun for kit choice. Grenade is not the only viable kit.

Aomine.5012:

Mork vom Ork.2598:

Esplen.3940:

mysticsicness.7598:

It would be fine if it was not for the trait being such a CORE MECHANIC!!! Might as well say “reroll untill next patch.”

All builds revolve around grenades?

Sadly most of them do. I’d say at least 90% of engineers had the grenade kit in their skill bar, and that was true even before the buggy patch.
Main reason is, most other kits/weapons suck. Bombs would be an alternative if their range had not been castrated.
We need some viable alternatives that are not niche builds (like SD glass cannon).

Truth is you really don’t need to take the explosive trait for the grenades now. 3 grenades on default. Grenades are mostly tossed within 300~500 range in PVP anyway.
It’s like the old Grenade, not much changed.

We did not only lose the range, although together with the range nerfs on all our primary weapons this is pretty significant. We also lost the poison fields, which were really strong in PvP and roughly 15% on Grenade Barrage (6 instead of 7 grenades now).
Even if we ignore this and say grenades are at pre-patch status now, the game has changed significantly and “old” grenades are left at a disadvantage.

Aomine.5012:

Btw, saying other kits suck show that you know very little about engi. Tool kit has been a stable choice for many engis for a long time. So does bomb kit in PVP. Turret engi takes elixir gun for kit choice. Grenade is not the only viable kit.

Tool kit and elixir gun have really good utility value, but they are not build defining main damage kits. If you try to autoattack someone to death with tool kit or EG auto you won’t get far.
To hit someone reliably with bombs now, they have to be cc’d, afk or braindead. Before bombs were a very good area denial weapon vs. melee classes.
Flamethrower has had it’s best trait removed (cd reduction) and the +dmg trait is gone too.

If before the patch, grenades were by far the best damage kit, how can bombs or FT be an alternative now, when their power was reduced?

P.S. Turret engi? Really? It’s dead.

I like that people automatically assume cool-down reduction loss means that flamethrower is useless. The condition damage boost easily makes up for this loss, and the added continuously ticking stability makes it incredibly easy for Flamethrower engineers to break away from CC chaining. A properly traited (i.e. alchemy traited Elixir/Flamethrower engi) can easily cap out 25 stacks of might in a couple of seconds with minimal effort, no blast finishes, and a set of strength runes AND do pretty potent, consistent damage (remember that the tool belt versions of the elixirs grant 2 stacks of might each also). Also notable is the fact that Most Flamethrower attacking is done at melee range and some of the /other/ new engineer traits give it a power boost as well (Increased chance to crit nearby foes, 4 seconds of fury for crits against nearby foes). Grenadier made the grenade tool-belt skill a one shot and needs to to be fixed, and “next scheduled release” probably means Tuesday.

I’m facepalming so hard to all the ppl here who are upset about this …

Ragnarox.9601:

So wheres necro and mesmer nerfs too?

You’re joking about the mesmer nerfs, right? Cause out of all three mini patches that hit, each one had a mesmer nerf …

EDIT: And also, it’s a bug fix, not a nerf.

Mork vom Ork.2598

We also lost the poison fields, which were really strong in PvP

We have a poison field on the mortar, and since it’s “really strong”, needing to spend the elite slot on it doesn’t seem unfair to me.

Loxsus.3841:

Ragnarox.9601:

So wheres necro and mesmer nerfs too?

You’re joking about the mesmer nerfs, right? Cause out of all three mini patches that hit, each one had a mesmer nerf …

EDIT: And also, it’s a bug fix, not a nerf.

It will be a bug fix when we get the increased speed and blast radius back. Until then it’s a (temporary) nerf.

tairneanach.8427:

Mork vom Ork.2598

We also lost the poison fields, which were really strong in PvP

We have a poison field on the mortar, and since it’s “really strong”, needing to spend the elite slot on it doesn’t seem unfair to me.

This still makes grenades weaker.

It wasn’t said in the patch notes but the area of effect for grenades was reduced quite a lot. They are pretty useless without this trait since due to the unpredictable movement of the projectiles they rarely hit moving targets. Even targets that don’t move all 3 grenades often don’t hit because they scatter so much…

I think many of us would like an eta in the fix. Nades as they are now aren’t useless per se but are just lacking overall compared to our alternatives. Even with alternate builds our mid range is lacking and long distance isn’t that viable.

Question: Was it intentionally too have grenades pierce, because that was a really nice touch.

ZidZabre.7256:

Question: Was it intentionally too have grenades pierce, because that was a really nice touch.

Nope. They already do AoE, ground-targeted explosions. Piercing was unintended and made grenades explode an unintended additional time for every target it pierced; if you pierced through two people, for example, they’d explode THREE times instead of once.

Considering grenades already do excellent damage, that was clearly a bug. It’s also part of why they disabled it. Honestly, it’s probably the harder part of the code to fix since the other one just doubled the number of grenades in Grenade Barrage; that’s a simple math formula that could possibly be contained in one part of one line of code specific to Grenade Barrage.

Fixing unintended piercing effects on multiple grenade skills? It’s a good bet that’s the majority of code needing to be debugged.

LOL the Engies QQing Grenade disable are just as ludicrous as the Guardians that were QQing the loss of Symbolic Avenger bug. (i have a guard by the way).

It was a bug and it will be fixed just like symbolic avenger. Be thankful you had it for a few days longer than guards had theirs.

Cool and all that you fixed this but would you mind actually activating the trait again? No difference in grenade speed or radius when traited.

Taku.6352:

Cool and all that you fixed this but would you mind actually activating the trait again? No difference in grenade speed or radius when traited.

Noticed that as well. Leave it to Anet to fix a trait but forget to turn it back on.

:DDDDDDDDDDD I really hope they will also give us the legendary animation back! :<

Still disabled despite patch notes saying otherwise.

WHY?? why is it that engi’s get nerfed and changed more then any other class? Mesmers are so f’ing OP it isn’t even funny, Guardians have unreal amount of armor and dmg. so you think kittening over engi’s is a good idea? come on, i love my engi why would you kill our range and then kill our best DPS? it sucks

Phineas Poe.3018:

Still disabled despite patch notes saying otherwise.

Mhmm

XgoroX.6920:

WHY?? why is it that engi’s get nerfed and changed more then any other class? Mesmers are so kittening OP it isn’t even funny, Guardians have unreal amount of armor and dmg. so you think kittening over engi’s is a good idea? come on, i love my engi why would you kill our range and then kill our best DPS? it sucks

Because it was 100nades all over again. Mesmers are bit much atm I concur but I do not know if some random nerf would make sense. What I do know is the trait was bugged and many engineer opted out of it before it was disabled and many more used it and lol’d at everyone they nuked.

This has been and will continue to be one of the best skill based professions in this game. We do not have access to on demand burst nor do we have 1 skill nukes. We require a bit of skill and patience to play effectively. So whining about losing a one shot skill imho does not sound like and committed engineer.

XgoroX.6920:

WHY?? why is it that engi’s get nerfed and changed more then any other class? Mesmers are so kittening OP it isn’t even funny, Guardians have unreal amount of armor and dmg. so you think kittening over engi’s is a good idea? come on, i love my engi why would you kill our range and then kill our best DPS? it sucks

Mesmers really aren’t that OP in my view. I had a hard time against them when the patch first dropped, but Lock On nullifies them so hard it’s not even funny.

They still 1-2 shot you in nearly any build. They need a slight nerf.

Malpractice.7850:

They still 1-2 shot you in nearly any build.

I mean, so do engineers. Pry Bar crits for over 5K in Marauder, and I’ve had Barrages hit for over 9K. Power builds across the board are very strong right now.

Conditions are very strong too. Blowtorch alone can tick for over 14K damage if left uncleansed.

Uhm… Good job anet?

Trait is still disabled. GG.

wow they just re-enabled grenadier, no patch no reloging.

And it no longer has the legendary effect.

…

Ugh.

Phineas Poe.3018:

And it no longer has the legendary effect.

…

Ugh.

Haters are gonna hate, but for a change, I will thanks Anet for this not so bad time to react.

Legendary effect is gone. Fix asap pls.

It’s no longer disabled – but the legy effect is gone … FIX THIS PLEASE !!! it’s one of the few cool animations we have … i mean “had” …