Guild Wars 2

Engi needs so much rework, After ranger revamp we are now the weakest wvw class and surely just burden in serious GVG. (im not intrested of ur silly solo roamer stuff)

ikiturso.4026:

Engi needs so much rework, After ranger revamp we are now the weakest wvw class and surely just burden in serious GVG. (im not intrested of ur silly solo roamer stuff)

Zerging is where the fun and skill are at! Eng is fine for ZvZ. They can build AC’s just as fast as any other class.

In GVG u dont use siege. (GVG are set matches between guilds held somewhere hidden in borderlands where its 20v20 / 25v25 or so.)

Arkham Creed.7358:

Anymras.5729:

Arkham: It’d require more polishing (for example, making the skinboxes mentioned in the original post Soulbound would be a good start, and making it so that only the armor worn at the time of transition’s appearance would be kept until the skinbox was used, as well as preventing the Medium skin from being transmuted to any other Heavy armors) to handle, but I still think they could do it.

Oh I agree that they probably could do it, but that doesn’t change the fact that they have already said they won’t do it. It has nothing to do with technology restrictions or limitations, or code, or whatever. It is a design choice. They decided that you need to be able to visually tell at least what weight class another player is when you encounter them, so heavy armor stays heavy armor. Again; yes they could do it, but they never will.

And again, for the second time since this thread was made: Here’s the last sentence or two of the initial post. These are intended specifically to address the mentioned issue in as inoffensive a way as possible.

“Only have the retained appearance be visible to others in PvE; this is a balance/deception concern. In PvP, the retained appearance should only be visible to the player, if possible.”

It’s after the bolded bit about testing, so I’m not too surprised that people keep missing it, but it’s there. I’ve actually made a point of not editing the post, even to remove the bold, simply so people can know that it was always there. It was thought of, and a proposal made for how to handle it.

No way, all the cool Engineer-style clothes are medium. Running around in platemail as an Engineer would look totally lame.
Besides, considering how the game works, which armor type you have is nothing more than a cosmetic concern anyway. Ever heard of a Bunker Ele? Yeah.
Medium looks better on Engineers, and Heavy armor is completely unnecessary statistically.

I will cut straight to the point. If you spent money in the cash shop to buy any armor set they would literally have to reimburse you. This is not going to happen. It would simply be more practical to trait more toughness and due to the way stats work, the variety you have access to, and the diminishing returns to toughness. You can literally build tanky to the the point of Toughness< any other stat in effectiveness in any build on any class. The difference between heavy and medium armor is 147 armor. Not enough to make engineer much more tanky of those stats alone.

TL;DR not happening unless A net is nuts.

More weapons already in the works.

ikiturso.4026:

In GVG u dont use siege. (GVG are set matches between guilds held somewhere hidden in borderlands where its 20v20 / 25v25 or so.)

I was being cheeky. I know what GvG is… but GvG isn’t officially part of this game… I wouldn’t expect any balance done for it.

Short answer: No.

Long Answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

If we will have the heavy armor I won’t get angry, I mean we’re a midrange profession oriented towards melee: rifle 3-4-5 are melee friendly, pistol 2 hit less the farther you are, pistol 4 it’s 600 range, Flamethrower 1 is 425 range, bomb kit is melee, toolkit is melee; our ranged option are elixir gun which is more a support weapon(you’re lucky if you see a 1k crit) and grenade that are good ranged but the farther you are the more time require to the grenade to land and the more they spread so it become less effective in single target vs mobile target.

I’d like some more weapon so we have to use less kit for dps and have more utility, but, before that I’d prefer dev give some power to kit and turrets(and a ranged alternative to grenade kit), I mean FT sure is better but its direct damage is still low(for a 2,25 sec channeling and no other effect aside the 1 sec burning on the last tick).

And for old profession comeback probably the ritualist would be light, dervish medium and paragon heavy(if we don’t consider the guardian a fusion between paragon and monk).

For a solution for crossing heavy and medium wearer, you could do like in many other game where light wearer can use only light armor, medium can use light+medium and heavy wearer profession can use anything. I mean the stat are the same, an exotic berserk chest will gave the same stat no matter if it’s heavy, medium or light.

Anymras.5729:

complete exclusion of magic excluding alchemy

uh what
Edit: On topic, engineer was originally planned as a heavy armor class afaik

This thread had been made months ago, and necro’d rather more recently, for those confused about why I’d be suggesting adding weapons when we already know they’re going to.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Anymras.5729:

complete exclusion of magic excluding alchemy

uh what
Edit: On topic, engineer was originally planned as a heavy armor class afaik

Engineers don’t use magic, as far as I’m aware – like, at all. Some people would consider alchemy (such as our elixirs) to be magic, though. And…yeah, that’s pretty much a chunk of what made me suggest it in the first place, knowing that they had thought about having us be heavy to begin with.

Heavy Armor:

Yes! Absolutely, as I hate all that leather fetisch their MA designer is pushing out. A little bit more armor? Brilliant. Chance that it ever happens: 1%.

More Non-Kit Weapons like Torch, Axe and so on:

No! I do not want any more duplicated skins and weapon skills that already exist. I don’t like the Leather armor and it ‘s look and those weapons wouldn’t fit to be an engineers choice of gear in my opinion. And I don’t want to be FORCED to wear an longbow like the Warrior because it ’s skills are kittening “balanced” that way.

Kits are already lovely enought. IF we get new weapon choices then as kits especially made for the enginieer. Those kits are REALLY lovely designed unlike a lot of the current weapon skins. Chance that it ever happens, they kitten up build versitiality by removing and wtfshuffeling our traits (and bring dhuum onto us): ~50%

You might be better of making an ALT Warrior or Guardian in my opinion. Heavy Armor, Torches, there you have it and there it fits the lore ….

Dervish, Ritualist, … :

Play GW 1 if you miss them. They wont be ever coming and honestly I’m really glad they dont. Even if there are players that want to play “jack of all trades” now they can do it with most classes and the proper equipment (allstat gear for example).

As long as I can keep my medium armor, I’m happy. I like the look of it, simple as that. If they ever took that look from me and made me run around in heavy armor, I’d simply stop playing my engineer.

Honestly, just give us a trait or something to make up that base difference. Way easier and less headache for everyone involved lol

Tolmos: People who would like to keep the look is 90% of the “How to do it inoffensively” section, so don’t worry, you weren’t forgotten. If we start adding traits and stuff, then other classes will start yammering for their own new traits to mimic what those do, and then it gets even more awkward. Most of the headache that I’m seeing comes from people not actually reading the first post all the way through or telling me to go play a different class.

Imaginary: While they may never do the Heavy Armor thing, they’re going to be finding ways to give us every single weapon. They’re going to be finding ways to give everybody every single weapon. This was actually confirmed by the devs – they even specifically mentioned that Engineers will get Hammers. Does this mean that you will be ‘forced’ to use them? No. You can go merrily on your way, using the same stuff as before, more likely than not – even if they decide to give us Weapon Swap, for whatever reason, you can fill both slots with pre-existing weapon choices and then never use or see them anyway because you prefer kits (at least, that’s the impression I’m getting). I’m not forced to use Kits, any more than you will ever be forced to use a longbow.

Fun side-fact: I’ve actually never played GW1, so I don’t miss the Dervish or Ritualist at all. As far as I’ve heard, the Dervish became popular when it was rebuilt some time after its inclusion, thus the inclusion of it in the list of reasons.

Well Dervish and Ritualist were always very … weird professions that were sometimes really overpowered and sometimes really useless. They didn’t stood at a specific point that ‘s why I’m glad they didn continue to build onto that theme which they failed at previously.

I’m perfectly fine if you’re going to get your hammer and are able use it to your purpose. Unless they nerf my traits when releasing it – then I’ll rent around a little bit (before moving on and using another build or playing another one of my alts).

Also I won’t hold true to their words considering the new weapons part. Meaning they will provide additional weapons at ANY time and ANY amount so it could take a few months or even years until you get your beloved hammer.

They’ve also said they’re going to be adding new traits, balanced against existing ones, so I’m going to hope they don’t start nerfing things into the ground. They haven’t given us a whack with the balance mallet in a little while, but I’m not sure if that means we’ve fallen off the radar or what.

Well you have their words – but you also have the current game mechanics. To be honest I can’t really imagine how they ’ll incorperate all that withouth a big balance break that needs to settle down in a longer timeframe till everything is worked out (at most).

On the other side of it there will be something new to explore and experience – so yay. I’m glad for that.

Anymras.5729:

Another way to implement Heavy Armor defenses, without actually using Heavy Armor, could be to use the new skills they’re going to be adding to add a set of skills based on the idea of technological armor modifications – basically, treat them like Signets that give a passive Defense/Armor boost, and maybe a passive effect like the Signets of other classes.

Obviously, that might be a bit much, but I think, if they did it in such a way that the defense boost was the Toolbelt effect and the Signet-like technological effects were on the Utility Bar, I think it could work out.

Oooh I’d like this, it’d be pretty cool if they added some minor effects around you too, but hardly required… Kinda hope this happens now xD

They could do for us with gadgets like they did for warriors with Deep Strike. Say 100 toughness per gadget equipped? Or they could go juggernaut with gadgets and grant 200 toughness with a gadget equipped.

There would be several advantages to allowing engineers to use both / either heavy or medium.

1. easier transition
2. would allow the stubborn sorts to keep what they like (such as that dude moaning that he picked Engineer based partly on being medium)
3. Transmutation stones could maybe work both ways. think about that. everyones happy.
4. They could choose to pull an old silly WoW mechanic (start with Medium and gain access to Heavy at level XX! yay a prize for leveling!) because many devs love that stuff.
5. easier transition
6. potential to change some of the weakest/unused traits and make them “if you use all medium armor you get insert effect here” opening up a great number of possible builds with very little effort.

More importantly, what downside is there?

Transmutation stones working between armor classes without restriction would lead to triggering the deception concern – it’d be difficult to tell what type of armor was being worn, so a character could look like they’re wearing newbie leathers but really be wearing high-tier plate. This is something the devs have already said will not happen, for precisely that reason, and is pretty much why the last two sentences of the original post exist – preventing the issue before it ever came up by having the skin only be visible when it didn’t matter.

Aside from that…well, the downside is that, without having there be specific advantages to different armor types, using Medium armor when Heavy armor is available to the same class and is identical in every way except that it has higher defense would be, sheerly from a numbers standpoint, self-gimping.

About the only one of those points that could be used as a functional argument for allowing the class to use two different armor types is the last, and that would only work if it were applied to every class.

I agree with this thread. I can’t really see any issue with putting Engis in heavy armor.

timidobserver.7925:

I agree with this thread. I can’t really see any issue with putting Engis in heavy armor.

How about the fact that it makes no sense conceptually or thematically?

Seriously, when was the last time you saw a mechanic clocking into work in full plate armor? Or a computer tech in chain mail?

Arkham Creed.7358:

timidobserver.7925:

I agree with this thread. I can’t really see any issue with putting Engis in heavy armor.

How about the fact that it makes no sense conceptually or thematically?

Seriously, when was the last time you saw a mechanic clocking into work in full plate armor? Or a computer tech in chain mail?

When was the last time you saw a mechanic fight a dragon? Or a computer tech take a pistol-mounted blowtorch to zombies?

Ironman?
- Message Body length must at least be 15.

Aristio.2784:

Numot.3965:

Big no, this would pretty much ruin the class.

*Increases base survivability
*No other changes
*Ruins the class

Seems legit.

ha. to further support the argument:
i just took a 9.7k backstab. i am currently running 2720 armor, 21k hp. could literally do nothing to this thief.

Arkham Creed.7358:

timidobserver.7925:

I agree with this thread. I can’t really see any issue with putting Engis in heavy armor.

How about the fact that it makes no sense conceptually or thematically?

Seriously, when was the last time you saw a mechanic clocking into work in full plate armor? Or a computer tech in chain mail?

far cry 3.
heavy gunners/flamethrower. this is what engineers are meant to be.
have a good one.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Short answer: No.

Long Answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Short response: ^

Long response: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ OMG OMG OMG ^^^^^^^^^^^

1. Trait for Juggernaut.
2. Equip the Flamethrower.
3. ????
4. You are now a heavy armor class.

Just remembered pit fighter chest armor are just a couple of leather straps ~_~

This Engineer agrees!

Phineas Poe.3018:

1. Trait for Juggernaut.
2. Equip the Flamethrower.
3. ????
4. You are now a heavy armor class.

1. no thanks, i’d rather just use the rifle
2. see above
3. ????
4. pie.

Just triple Backpack Regenerator’s base healing and then add healing power scaling.

What engis really lack is sustain, not armor.

That only works for Engineers who A) use Kits and use the Backpack Regenerator trait. My intention was something that would benefit all Engineers, as some simply don’t like using Kits.

Lightsbane.9012:

Phineas Poe.3018:

1. Trait for Juggernaut.
2. Equip the Flamethrower.
3. ????
4. You are now a heavy armor class.

1. no thanks, i’d rather just use the rifle
2. see above
3. ????
4. pie.

Okay. Then don’t use it. I was just establishing how little separates the armor tiers. The difference between medium armor classes and heavy armor classes is literally 147 Toughness, and many traits like Juggernaut match or exceed that difference in armor (+200 Toughness for Jugg’s case).

I just don’t see this as a change being made. I love the way my Engineer looks, and I love the way he’s soon to look with his Orrian Coat to match the Hellfire Warhelm and the soon-to-be released Magitech Boots. ArenaNet has definitely done a lot to make Engineers feel comfortable with their options at the medium armor tier. And if you’re not, then I guess that sucks for you. I don’t happen to like very much of most of the light armor in this game, but I’m not going to go around demanding that Elementalist be able to wear plate armor because of it.

But if it’s not about cosmetics, and instead about “balance,” I think it’s important to remember that we have more than plenty damage mitigation traits out there; you can lower damage taken by 53% whenever you’re thrown to the ground between Protection Injection and Stabilized Armor. You can run a build where you have a 50% chance to apply a 3 second Blind every 10 when hit by a melee attack. You can receive Aegis and Protection when critically hit.

Our sustainability is incredible, even despite our middle tier health and medium armor, but only if you trait for it. A Guardian with zero points in Valor or Honor, with full Berserker is not going to be able to tank as well as one that runs 0/0/30/30/10 with full Knight gear.

It’s a needless change. You can choose to run the Rifle over the FT and then betch about your defensive attributes, but recognize you’re no different than a Warrior refusing to use his Axe and then complain that the Mace doesn’t do enough damage and that the class needs a buff.

Things Arena Net would have to do to make me agree to change the engineer to heavy armor:

*Refund the 500k+ karma I spent on Armageddon Armor.

*Refund the 5~10 gold I spent on runes for said armor.

*Convert my 400 in Leatherworking to 400 in Armor-smith with all equivalent recipes unlocked (Why should I have to raise a whole new crafting discipline because of this crap decision?).

*Update my soul-bound Fused Medium Gantlets to Fused Heavy Gantlets (why should I lose a reward I worked hard to earn because of this crap decision?).

*Refund the 800 gems I spent on Aetherblade Medium Armor (I didn’t pay for Aetherblade Heavy and don’t want it. But I am not letting that real money be wasted because of this crap decision. And no; I don’t want the equivalent in gold. Short of a refund on my credit card, I want my gems back).

*Convert all of the pieces of Celestial armor I have crafted so far from medium to heavy (Why should I have to start over because of this crap decision?).

*Send a written apology for this inconvenience, hand-signed by Colin himself, to my mailing address. Preferably something with gilded edges and suitable to be framed. And yes; I must be referred to by name, not just by the general “player” designation.

*No; I’m not joking.

“Offer a complimentary swapping of skill ranks from Leatherworker to Armorsmith. " Direct quote from the first post. Go check. I haven’t edited it. I’ve made a point, throughout this thread, of not editing that first post, specifically so you can know that I don’t go back and add kitten to cover my kitten . Maybe I don’t mention recipes, but that’s because I’d hope it’s safe to assume that, if they were going to actually do this, they would include the recipes. Don’t you think so?

Big change, try to make it as inoffensive as possible, “Let’s just not transfer the recipes, Bob.” “Great idea, let’s just go ahead and give everybody a real reason to get kitten ed.”

Most of this was addressed in the original post, come to think of it. I believe I made a point of figuring out a way to propose changing the stats without changing the look,. About the only part of this that A ) probably isn’t aesthetics, and B ) isn’t demanding written apologies for some inconvenience that would be pretty much illusory if this idea were followed, is that you might possibly be talking about several different sets of armor.

And here’s how I’d fix that: Instead of having it look for only the set the character is wearing, have it look for any armor soulbound to the character, and otherwise continue exactly as otherwise would occur.

I’d actually go back and edit that into the first post, but then you’d be sitting there going “Did he edit that in?” about everything else (fun fact, I edited ‘about everything else’ into this post, along with this note and the line break between this paragraph and the next).

Well, if you actually read it in the first place; the frequency with which I find myself quoting directly from it is making me wonder how many people actually do and how many people read the first half and skip right on down to the postbox.

Anymras.5729:

That only works for Engineers who A) use Kits and use the Backpack Regenerator trait. My intention was something that would benefit all Engineers, as some simply don’t like using Kits.

Fair enough

Anymras.5729:

“Offer a complimentary swapping of skill ranks from Leatherworker to Armorsmith. " Direct quote from the first post. Go check. I haven’t edited it. I’ve made a point, throughout this thread, of not editing that first post, specifically so you can know that I don’t go back and add kitten to cover my kitten . Maybe I don’t mention recipes, but that’s because I’d hope it’s safe to assume that, if they were going to actually do this, they would include the recipes. Don’t you think so?

Big change, try to make it as inoffensive as possible, “Let’s just not transfer the recipes, Bob.” “Great idea, let’s just go ahead and give everybody a real reason to get kitten ed.”

Most of this was addressed in the original post, come to think of it. I believe I made a point of figuring out a way to propose changing the stats without changing the look,. About the only part of this that A ) probably isn’t aesthetics, and B ) isn’t demanding written apologies for some inconvenience that would be pretty much illusory if this idea were followed, is that you might possibly be talking about several different sets of armor.

And here’s how I’d fix that: Instead of having it look for only the set the character is wearing, have it look for any armor soulbound to the character, and otherwise continue exactly as otherwise would occur.

I’d actually go back and edit that into the first post, but then you’d be sitting there going “Did he edit that in?” about everything else (fun fact, I edited ‘about everything else’ into this post, along with this note and the line break between this paragraph and the next).

Well, if you actually read it in the first place; the frequency with which I find myself quoting directly from it is making me wonder how many people actually do and how many people read the first half and skip right on down to the postbox.

I freely admit that I barely glanced over your opening post, mostly because after the first few lines I found this to be a ridiculous idea and a pointless thread not worth my time. However it has gotten a bit of a following, so I am legitimately worried that Arena Net may take notice. So if my complaints have already been covered I apologize, but I am not going to stop voicing them.

That said I really do think you should just give up on the whole “maintaining medium armor appearances” thing because that won’t happen either way. If nothing else it would open the door for thousands of players to demand cross-class armor transmutation, something that has been requested literately since before beta, and something that Arena Net has specifically called out as something they would never do more than once. The odds of the engineer becoming a heavy may be low, but I still recognize them because I don’t disregard any probability no matter how remote. However the odds of getting to keep the appearance of medium armor when or if that happens is nonexistent.

DargorV.8571:

Just triple Backpack Regenerator’s base healing and then add healing power scaling.

What engis really lack is sustain, not armor.

Actually it scales with Healing Power from 150 to 190 (1500 Healing Power). Lol that ‘s what I found in the Changelogs and couldn’t stop laughing. YEAH right everyone invest into 1500 Healing Power for 40 more Healing

imaginary.6241:

DargorV.8571:

Just triple Backpack Regenerator’s base healing and then add healing power scaling.

What engis really lack is sustain, not armor.

Actually it scales with Healing Power from 150 to 190 (1500 Healing Power). Lol that ‘s what I found in the Changelogs and couldn’t stop laughing. YEAH right everyone invest into 1500 Healing Power for 40 more Healing

Yeah thats what i meant, upping the scaling some wouldn’t hurt. But even then, comparing it with other passive heals like the warrior signet or Ranger’s Onguent/Natural healing its still very poor for mitigation

Arkham Creed: If the concern of an outcry is too great, then maybe just keep the skins only visible to the person using them. Or, hell, just have it all be client-side, for all I care. There’s always a way to make it work, if one thinks about it for a moment.

I’m going to ask you to go and read the first post thoroughly. If you still feel it’s a bad idea, go ahead and give your reasons. I promise you, I will actually try to answer them. I’m actually rather curious as to why, at this point; if you feel it’s not worth your time, then what about this gaining any kind of following is so alarming? It’s not likely to happen, so what’s so worrisome about it?

Anymras.5729:

Some simply don’t like using Kits.

So what is it you actually like about the Engineer? You seem negative about most elements of the class.

Things I like: Turrets, Gadgets, and the toolbelt skills thereof.

Things I dislike: The emphasis placed on Kits, the RNG on Elixirs. Any toolbelt skill that uses RNG to determine its effects. Elixirs U and X’s being derivatives of other classes’ skills.

I like more than I dislike, I can assure you, or I wouldn’t play the class at all.

I would list our limited weapon choices as something I dislike, but it’s slated to be addressed anyway. My opinion of the armor is actually fairly lukewarm; I feel we should be heavy armor, but I’m not that worried about it.

Notice that this thread is also several months old by now. Opinions stated before the thread initially died may well have evolved into something else entirely.

I disagree with the heavy armor aspect it makes sense to me to be medium armor but more weapon choices or even weapon swapping would be amazing!

Anymras.5729:

My opinion of the armor is actually fairly lukewarm; I feel we should be heavy armor, but I’m not that worried about it.

Is this because you are aware that the class was once considered to be in the heavy armor tier?

I never played the beta or kept track of the game. I played GW1, heard this was coming out, and picked it up. I chose the Engineer first and loved it immediately. Even after leveling probably the two strongest classes in the game, Guardian and Warrior, I still prefer playing my Engineer in PvE, PvP, or WvW.

It never crossed my mind ever that we should ever be a heavy armor class, or that the class was once considered one until someone told me. And even still I think trench coats and goggles fit the class more than plate and chainmail. These assertions that we belong as a heavy armor class just don’t resonate with me at all.

That certainly does have a bit to do with it.

I don’t agree or disagree with this one way or the other.

But, if you were going to do this and not kitten off the entire player base, it would have to be a trait. Probably a 30 Inventions trait (since that is our toughness line). Call it “Powered Exoskeleton” and allow you to equip heavy armor at the loss of medium armor (can’t mix armors due to how they are designed).

Otherwise your caveats would require an immense amount of development time that already has very polarizing opinions just as a pie in the sky suggestion.

I’m actually not entirely sure whether I can call the opinions ‘very polarizing.’ Most of the debate has centered on the method of the change, rather than the change itself.

Most of those who disagree, at least that I can recall, do so on grounds addressed in the very first post (aesthetics or the deception concern). I’ve quoted the first post in response to opinions so many times that I’m going to just start quoting the whole kitten thing whenever somebody tries to make a point that’s addressed in Post #1.

Some simply don’t like the idea, and that’s perfectly alright, but most of those who actually give reasons for their dislike have been finding them addressed by the very first post.

The immense development time, as well, would actually be a good thing – if they were to do it, I’m certain that many players who have a particular aesthetic they would like to keep would want time to get said aesthetic together. If they were to announce their intent to do so far in advance of it actually happening, then these players will have plenty of time.

On a different note, I’m pretty sure that trait idea would fall into the same trap as the cross-armor transmutation that apparently has been asked for since the beginning, particularly with the onset of the ‘every class, every weapon’ thing that they’ve already stated their intention to achieve.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Lightsbane.9012:

Phineas Poe.3018:

1. Trait for Juggernaut.
2. Equip the Flamethrower.
3. ????
4. You are now a heavy armor class.

1. no thanks, i’d rather just use the rifle
2. see above
3. ????
4. pie.

Okay. Then don’t use it. I was just establishing how little separates the armor tiers. The difference between medium armor classes and heavy armor classes is literally 147 Toughness, and many traits like Juggernaut match or exceed that difference in armor (+200 Toughness for Jugg’s case).

I just don’t see this as a change being made. I love the way my Engineer looks, and I love the way he’s soon to look with his Orrian Coat to match the Hellfire Warhelm and the soon-to-be released Magitech Boots. ArenaNet has definitely done a lot to make Engineers feel comfortable with their options at the medium armor tier. And if you’re not, then I guess that sucks for you. I don’t happen to like very much of most of the light armor in this game, but I’m not going to go around demanding that Elementalist be able to wear plate armor because of it.

But if it’s not about cosmetics, and instead about “balance,” I think it’s important to remember that we have more than plenty damage mitigation traits out there; you can lower damage taken by 53% whenever you’re thrown to the ground between Protection Injection and Stabilized Armor. You can run a build where you have a 50% chance to apply a 3 second Blind every 10 when hit by a melee attack. You can receive Aegis and Protection when critically hit.

Our sustainability is incredible, even despite our middle tier health and medium armor, but only if you trait for it. A Guardian with zero points in Valor or Honor, with full Berserker is not going to be able to tank as well as one that runs 0/0/30/30/10 with full Knight gear.

It’s a needless change. You can choose to run the Rifle over the FT and then betch about your defensive attributes, but recognize you’re no different than a Warrior refusing to use his Axe and then complain that the Mace doesn’t do enough damage and that the class needs a buff.

that’s a nice wall of text but sorry bro didn’t read.
argument#1: Engineer needs to be heavy armor because of the engineer article on the gw2 wiki.