Guild Wars 2

Help!!! I just recently made an engi, got it to level 5, used grenade kit, and then quit due to frustration. I feel like when I’m using kits, my primary weapons are useless. I also feel like I cant make any builds without kits. Could someone explain when/where/how I should use kits, or if there are any non-kit builds?

You can stay in one kit forever if you want, but optimally you should juggle between kits to use all your hard hitting skills. (like you might want to use 3 and 5 on rifle before switching over to a kit)

You can also forgo kits entirely and go with a static discharge build (Tools II trait)
Go for utilities with low cooldown toolbelt skills to trigger static discharge along with a rifle for a weapon for most damage.

Or you can play around with the turrets if you just want to have some fun.

There are a lot of good builds, so just search around the forums a bit.

I feel your pain.

Try a Turret Build, or an elixir Build (without the Elixir Gun) or, if you wouldn’t mind using a ToolKit, a Static Discharge Build!

I’m currently testing out a Confusion build and I can manage a stack of 20 Confusion for about 7 seconds with using a ToolKit and Bomb Kit, which is effective to en extent; it depends on your play style really… If I was you, try and make builds as you level, and when you get to level 75+, look more deeply into Exotic Stats and the Non Kit Builds on YouTube (I mentioned some above) in order to get the Build with the Stats you want

Playing Level 5 and considering Builds from a few Kits you own isn’t good enough for this class: I find this is a Hybrid Class, meaning it’s an All Rounded class, so I, personally, found it repetitive (just an FYI for later on :o) and Engineer as a whole leans over to Conditions more than anything, hence why I invested in a specific Conditions which turned out as a good investment.

an example of the simplest way to play using 2 kits.

kit #1 > 2-5 > swap to kit #2 > 2-5 > swap to weapon > 2-5 > repeat.

your weapons aren’t useless. non kit builds are generally inferior.

ps you’re level 5. give the kitten class a chance.

Engineer is fine. I’m surprised it has a lot of viable builds, actually! Love that flexibility. Engis can pretty much fit to anyone, actually!

Archaeopteryx.7409:

Try a Turret Build,

Don’t do that. Just…here’s a list of reasons:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Turret-Bug-Reference-Guide-1

I like Turrets, and I wish they worked, but as they are now, they’re just…no.

ellesee.8297:

hey maciora can you stop posting in every single thread telling people, especially newer players, your moronic and obviously new opinion that the engineer is bad? the engineer is a great class and borderline overpowered in pvp. just because you don’t know how to play it doesn’t mean everybody should take part in your whinefest.

thanks,
ellesee

I think he means engineers are broken in the OP sense, which is entirely true.

Can always roll with a Rifle SD build or HgH p/p but meh.

I always have atleast one kit in all my builds.

Engis are not for everyone… but you wont get the feel for any class @ lvl 5. Give it some time

What do you want to do with your engineer? PvP/WvW or Open PvE/Dungeons/Fractals?

Anymras.5729:

Archaeopteryx.7409:

Try a Turret Build,

Don’t do that. Just…here’s a list of reasons:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Turret-Bug-Reference-Guide-1

I like Turrets, and I wish they worked, but as they are now, they’re just…no.

I got a Turret Build to flex around a lovely heal build with a Burst and Condition-based Build, so for me, it works fine; for the owner of this thread, he can try it as he levels ;o

I personally like playing with kits. Swapping from weapon to kit to weapon to another kit makes play more interesting.

Kits make engi’s fun, the 1 second cooldown on kit swaps makes for a massive amount of skill combos. It just takes a while to get used to, I personally have a hard time going to other professions with that excruciating 10 second weapon swap cooldown.

As a new engi I recommend bomb kit, grenades can be powerful but you need a 30 point trait to take full advantage of the kit. Also the ground targeted auto attack throws people off.

Unfortunately the class is balanced upon the use of kits, even if they are theoretically optional (and yes, our main weapons are weak by design). So…yep, just use kits.

Elitist.8701:

Help!!! I just recently made an engi, got it to level 5, used grenade kit, and then quit due to frustration. I feel like when I’m using kits, my primary weapons are useless. I also feel like I cant make any builds without kits. Could someone explain when/where/how I should use kits, or if there are any non-kit builds?

Yes. You can spec into Alchemy (and eventually get HGH), equip elixirs, and build conditions with a pair of pistols. Example gameplay video Nerfed recently but still playable.

But learn to use kits. If you don’t like a profession with lots of skill combos, engi is not really for you. But five levels isn’t enough to know, I’d say!

Manuhell.2759:

Unfortunately the class is balanced upon the use of kits, even if they are theoretically optional (and yes, our main weapons are weak by design). So…yep, just use kits.

Just the aa sux. All other skills are normally pretty useful.

Xyonon.3987:

Manuhell.2759:

Unfortunately the class is balanced upon the use of kits, even if they are theoretically optional (and yes, our main weapons are weak by design). So…yep, just use kits.

Just the aa sux. All other skills are normally pretty useful.

Well, that’s what devs said in the only class balance philosophies post they have ever done – more than a year ago, but still the only one.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/999247

And considering that almost anyone relies on kits rather than the main weapon, i may assume it is still true.

Indeed. Engineers have so many kits and awesome skills they rarely even use the 1 button, except for bombs or maybe grenades. Most other 1 skills are pretty ineffective.

Firstly, don’t judge a class on what it’s like at level 5.

Secondly, the strength of our kits is the lack of cooldown that allows us to quickly swap amongst them for whatever skill our situation requires. At sucha low level you’re simply relegated to spamming untraited grenades or pew-pewing with your gun. Not very awesome.

However, at later levels and with more unlocked, (for example) you’ll be closing in with rifle #5, blasting with #3, swapping to ’nades & tossing out 2 specific grenades, swapping to bombs and using 2 specific bombs, then to elixir gun for #4 retreat.

Engi is not designed to sit in 1 kit an autoattack.

As for no kits, yes it’s possible, though aside from a Static Discharge build they’re not terribly effective. It would be like using another profession but never swapping weapons; you’re hindering yourself.

I wouldn’t say it is the same thing. The other classes get a second weapon by default (apart from elementalists, who get attunements due to their primary class mechanic).
That isn’t true for kits, as we must spend utility slots for them, being optional (even if the penalities for having them are forced upon the class).
I would say there isn’t an example we can give about it. We’re unique in that way of balancing.
A way that doesn’t even make sense, imho, but well…

guess i could guest and help ya level and show ya some of the good engi stuff

lvl 5 is too early to quit

If you are using nades, don’t forget to change the targeting mode from options. Makes ALL the difference:

“Enabling the option of fast-cast ground targeting in Options → Interactions ‘Fast-Cast Ground Targeting’ allows ground-targeted skills to be immediately aimed at your cursor’s current position and activated.”

I prefer the one with range indicator.

Manuhell.2759:

I wouldn’t say it is the same thing. The other classes get a second weapon by default (apart from elementalists, who get attunements due to their primary class mechanic).
That isn’t true for kits, as we must spend utility slots for them, being optional …

But you get a toolbelt skill in return, and nearly all of them are good.

you definetly wanna run turrets until like level 30

Mabuse.2879:

Manuhell.2759:

I wouldn’t say it is the same thing. The other classes get a second weapon by default (apart from elementalists, who get attunements due to their primary class mechanic).
That isn’t true for kits, as we must spend utility slots for them, being optional …

But you get a toolbelt skill in return, and nearly all of them are good.

Saying that nearly all of them are good is debatable, especially seeing as we get the main skill nerfed if a toolbelt is considered good (see: elixir r). And many of them aren’t that good if we consider that often our utilities have their effects splitted between the main skill and the toolbelt (see: elixirs – with the exception of elixir r – that any other class can use as shouts without even the hassle of having to aim a small circle to moving allies)
Anyway, i don’t think it is correct saying that we get a toolbelt “in return”.
That’s our class mechanic. We have it in any case – even when we don’t use kits.
Whereas kits are optional, and we pay for them even when we don’t use them.
If anything, the balancing should have been done considering the main class mechanic – the toolbelt, as it is always at our disposal.
But even if we wanted to consider the lack of the second weapon as a balancing for the toolbelt, it doesn’t make much sense. Let’s see whoever else has that drawback. Elementalists. No second weapon slot, but they get 3 other sets of weapon skills as a sort of weapon swap.
We don’t have additional weapon skills for free and instead get 4 more utility-like skills – whose selection is locked down by our utilities. One could think it is a fair drawback?
Compare with guardians, that have basically three signets at their disposal. Mesmers have some nice skills too, albeit with a resource shared between them. Rangers have a pet (of questionable utility, ehr). All of them have still got their second weapon.
Actually, no other class has to give up something for their class mechanic – even considering elementalists, who have basically 4 themed weapon sets instead of two weapon sets.
So why should we be the exception?

And this is why you shouldn’t compare to other classes. The engi deals superior damage and has almost the best utility in the game. He’s pretty much an allrounder with a massive passive damage boost. You got kits at utility slots yes, so what? Any other class can put 5 skills on a utility slot? No, so its totally op, that’s why we have kittenty basic attacks aswell no weapon swap.

Engi is totally fine he is right now. If you don’t use kits it’s your own problem. It’s like a Mesmer is not using Illusions so… ye

“Don’t compare to other classes.” Usual excuse for when one has no arguments. Classes must be balanced with each other, of course we must compare them.

Also, we don’t deal “superior damage”. We can deal some good damage, sure, but as any other class.
Best utility? Debatable. Most of our utilities have their effects splitted between the main skill and the toolbelt. Turrets are useless when used as turrets – we basically use them just as blast finishers, even the healing one, as they are too fragile to be actually used. Gadgets have long cooldowns for the minor effects they provide – i would say rocket boots is the only decent one, and it required a rework or the skill to get there.
In the ends, it all boils down to kits – that aren’t comparable to main weapons anyway, but we get away with that just because we can heavily trait them to be decent enough (spending a lot of points on single utility skills).

You say that it is fine to have underwhelming basic attack and no weapon swap because we have kits, and you still fail to consider that they are optional, thus balancing the whole class upon them is nonsensical and utter unbalanced if we decide to use the other categories of utilities – as we are supposed to, since they wouldn’t be optional otherwise.

Unlike the illusions you mention – that mesmers have on their main weapon as well, thus always on their disposal.

Manuhell.2759:

“Don’t compare to other classes.” Usual excuse for when one has no arguments. Classes must be balanced with each other, of course we must compare them.

If you say that you simply do not understand what it actually means…
It’s about how you can’t compare a class with another one just by one factor. You cannot compare two blinks with each other for example, nor can you compare mainweapons with other classes.
If you really want to compare two classes you have to compare all the + and – they got and every single skill in the situation they will be used and how the combination overall works. In other words – too complicated as you should give it a try.
Telling me that “you should not compare two classes” is a cheap excuse (wich it obviously isn’t) is actually nothing more than a cheap excuse for “I have no more arguments” itself.

Manuhell.2759:

Also, we don’t deal “superior damage”. We can deal some good damage, sure, but as any other class.

Ignoring passive damage? Common mistake.

Manuhell.2759:

Best utility? Debatable. Most of our utilities have their effects splitted between the main skill and the toolbelt.

So what? Besides I said “almost the best utility” since there is never a “best” due the fact of different situations. If their effects are even splittet just grants us more flexibility. I’d rather like to have a skill that removes condition and one that removes boons isntead of two in one. And this is what the elixier gun does (e.x). One skill heals, another removes conditions, one can protect, another one is a blast finisher, then there is also a speed buff (even if rarely required in combat) aswell a stunbreaker with heal. That all for ONE UTILITY SLOT!

Manuhell.2759:

Turrets are useless when used as turrets – we basically use them just as blast finishers, even the healing one, as they are too fragile to be actually used. Gadgets have long cooldowns for the minor effects they provide – i would say rocket boots is the only decent one, and it required a rework or the skill to get there.

Turrets are ineed just worthless, just the healturret is actually good. But yea – we blow ’em up anyway. And also yes – gadgets are too weak compared to kits.

Manuhell.2759:

In the ends, it all boils down to kits – that aren’t comparable to main weapons anyway, but we get away with that just because we can heavily trait them to be decent enough (spending a lot of points on single utility skills).

If you trait one or two of them they are much better than normal weapons. Only take the grenades and bombs wich deal good damage, awesome passive damage aswell grant serval of fields, burst and a finisher. Also condispam for units and traits like iWarlock (10% dmg per condi) or ourselves (2% dmg per condi).

Manuhell.2759:

You say that it is fine to have underwhelming basic attack and no weapon swap because we have kits, and you still fail to consider that they are optional, thus balancing the whole class upon them is nonsensical and utter unbalanced if we decide to use the other categories of utilities – as we are supposed to, since they wouldn’t be optional otherwise.

Waaait wait wait … I never said they are optional. You weren’t talking to me tough. I think they are a must have in any build. But I feel like this is how the engi works and should work. Also does ANet (yes they said it like "strong kits for lack of weapon power). This is not even a tiny bit unbalanced. You can take them, so do it. Is it unbalanced to fight with a torch as a mesmer in pve? Is it unbalanced that I feel weak without taking a reflection wall as a guardian if i fight agains projectile spammers? No – but if you do so it’s simply natural selection that you gonna have a bad time.

In the end I think the conclusion is simply: YOU don’t like the engi design and should play a different class then.

Xyonon.3987:

If you say that you simply do not understand what it actually means…
It’s about how you can’t compare a class with another one just by one factor. You cannot compare two blinks with each other for example, nor can you compare mainweapons with other classes.
If you really want to compare two classes you have to compare all the + and – they got and every single skill in the situation they will be used and how the combination overall works. In other words – too complicated as you should give it a try.
Telling me that “you should not compare two classes” is a cheap excuse (wich it obviously isn’t) is actually nothing more than a cheap excuse for “I have no more arguments” itself.

Considering the walls of text i’m writing every single time this matter arises, i can’t exactly say i lack arguments.

Xyonon.3987:

Ignoring passive damage? Common mistake.

No, just stating a fact. Also, there is no passive dps. You can talk about conditions, or considering our support (still, even giving those might stacks costs us a lot of blast finishers, thus skills we could use in other ways). Still, it isn’t like we’re considered for our dps, and even if we can deal a good amount of vulnerability, we aren’t the only one able to do so (also, it basically requires us to spam the autoattack constantly).

Xyonon.3987:

So what? Besides I said “almost the best utility” since there is never a “best” due the fact of different situations. If their effects are even splittet just grants us more flexibility.

It also means it doesn’t actually give anything more than another class already gets with their normal utility. Also, if the so called flexibility is applied like our tossed elixir are – thus an extremely unpratical way of giving little random boons, as their radius and travel time make them terrible to use in practice – then it would be better having a single shout-like skill.

Xyonon.3987:

I’d rather like to have a skill that removes condition and one that removes boons isntead of two in one. And this is what the elixier gun does (e.x). One skill heals, another removes conditions, one can protect, another one is a blast finisher, then there is also a speed buff (even if rarely required in combat) aswell a stunbreaker with heal. That all for ONE UTILITY SLOT!

Oh, sure, in theory it is nice and all. In practice no one stays in the healing area – as it becomes a target for enemy aoes, especially during bosses – thus when that healing should be required. And being a light field, it often gets in the way of the other field (especially water ones).
Fumigate indeed is good for healing condition from allies. Assuming they’re all together and still/moving slowly, cause you have to hit them with that small cone.
Elixir F is nice indeed. When it works. As well as Acid Bomb, especially for escape purposes.
And i admit that since they’ve put healing mist as a stunbreaker, it became quite nice support wise (cause as damage go, it doesn’t do much even considering acid bomb).
But it is quite simplicistic saying they deal all those effects in a single utility, as they have purposely put them with unpratical ways of application.
And even considering all of that, this weapon is the exception, not the rule.
Bombs and grenades are always the same 5 skills, they just deal a different condition and damage. The variety you speak of isn’t there, and being hybrid weapons you can’t even use them at their fullest – you’ll have to give up either direct damage or condition one. And yet they’re the one commonly used, since we haven’t got many other ways to do damage (as despite all the talks about support and control, pve boils down to that, especially due to defiant stacks as far as control go).
The tool kit doesn’t do much as well, especially for a melee single target weapon (and i would add, the pull doesn’t even work two-thirds of the time). It should be used with turrets, but you can’t heal something that gets oneshotted.
And while the flamethrower is effectively used, it is mostly for the push and fire field(as the autoattack is laughable). But other classes can do the same things, and even better (sure, napalm may be the fire field with the longest duration…but it is extremely small).

But in the end, we are still giving up a weapon slot and having reduced damage on main weapons due to them. And weapons skills usually have major effects compared to kits (or lower cooldowns for similar skills – see: smoke vent and any other blind-dealing skill).
And, i would like to repeat that we have those penalities even while we don’t use them.

Manuhell.2759:

You say that it is fine to have underwhelming basic attack and no weapon swap because we have kits, and you still fail to consider that they are optional, thus balancing the whole class upon them is nonsensical and utter unbalanced if we decide to use the other categories of utilities – as we are supposed to, since they wouldn’t be optional otherwise.

Waaait wait wait … I never said they are optional. You weren’t talking to me tough. I think they are a must have in any build. But I feel like this is how the engi works and should work. Also does ANet (yes they said it like "strong kits for lack of weapon power). This is not even a tiny bit unbalanced. You can take them, so do it. Is it unbalanced to fight with a torch as a mesmer in pve? Is it unbalanced that I feel weak without taking a reflection wall as a guardian if i fight agains projectile spammers? No – but if you do so it’s simply natural selection that you gonna have a bad time.

In the end I think the conclusion is simply: YOU don’t like the engi design and should play a different class then.[/quote]

But they are optional, that’s the whole matter. They aren’t our main class mechanic – something it is always at our disposal – but the whole class is balanced as if they were one.
It is like saying that warriors should lose hp every second because by using healing signet they can gain more than the one they lose. Or that they should have less defense because they have endure pain. Or that their base stats should be lower because they can use banners to raise them. Does that make any sense? No, at all.
I could make this example for every other class, and it would be as nonsensical. And yet we are balanced that way: a fixed penalty for a category of utilities we may even not use.
Guardians may have wall of reflection, but it isn’t like they need it because they naturally attract projectiles because they may choose said skill. They can get it because they can, and just that.
It isn’t a matter of choosing a more proficent weapon or a useful utility to add what you can do. No, we must choose them to make up for a penalty we have either way.

Tbh you’re only lvl 5 so it’ll be tough to understand exactly what an engineer is. Eventually you’ll unlock more kits and you’ll see it’s not that our primary weapon is underwhelming, it’s just we have so many options through kits that there’s no need to stay only in your primary weapon. For some lvling tips though, grab bomb kit and stack power. Bomb is great bc #4 is a smoke field so you take no dmg against most mobs.

alrite i made a new engi and its lvl 10 get on your engi and join me on an aaaaaaaaaadventuuuuure!

While some of his points I don’t agree with, I land on Manuhell’s side of the fence when it comes to kits.

Look, I love kits. I love the Engi. There is no inherent problem when you play with kits. The problem is that it is 1 subset of utilities, it is not our class mechanic that is always present. If I get tired of kits, as I am wont to do from time to time, I can’t just run gadgets or turrets because I’m stuck with my main weapon which Anet even says is balanced with kits in mind. Forget that it takes a utility slot, I’m not concerned with that because they work well. I don’t know what the utility slot really has to do with anything because it’s not like we’re missing out on something when we use a kit. We’re balanced for them. We are indeed the only profession that is admittedly balanced for just 1 of our 4 types of utilities.

This is not like Mesmer illusions because Mesmers can choose from their different subsets of utilities and still have access to illusions. Partly because most of their utilities have something to do with illusions, but mostly because they get illlusions through their weapons. Engineers cannot choose from their different subsets and still have the multiple weapon bars that we’re balanced for.

To keep this on topic, my post boils down to this: love it or hate it, the Engineer is (currently) all about kits. If you don’t like them you won’t like the Engineer. And, well, duh, get past level 5 lol. I don’t have a lot of level cap characters, but I have leveled each profession to ~30 at least twice each. I feel that is the point where you can really get the feel of how the profession truly plays.

Manuhell.2759:

So why should we be the exception?

… he said, ignoring Elementalists.

And before you now say: “But but, they can change stance!!!!”, yes, they can. We have a toolbelt.
Both classes have extra skills (we have double heal/utility skills, they have quadruple weapon skills) and both classes in turn cannot swap weapons.

Consider it that way around, weapon-switching gives you double the weapon skills. Instead of that, Engineers have double the heal/utility skills but – like Elementalists – the extra skills depend on the main skills.

You should be able to choose alchemist (elixir) eng or gadget one (beside kits if u want). Problem with 1st is: elixirs give not very usefull boons (protection for example should not be random), cd on some passive traits (equivalent of signets) is too long. Gadget build the same – cd too long on gadget. Idea is good, implementation – awful or mediocre at least.

Thats my opinnion.

Man I love my Engie, but I will be the first to say it’s high maintainence.

I run Medkit (slot 6), Elixer Gun (slot 7), Flamethrower (slot, and Tool Kit (slot 9)

And I use ALL of them to fight. To fight effectively as an Engie, you basically need to remember 20-36 keys. IMO.

as you can see noone truely understands how to play engineer…

your suppose to sit in your home city crafting gadgets to sell to people and offering the services of your workshop for extort prices! naturally you will buy anything off people who come to you and wont really make alot of money.

but at least its better than the time we were nerfed into trees

Carighan.6758:

Manuhell.2759:

So why should we be the exception?

… he said, ignoring Elementalists.

And before you now say: “But but, they can change stance!!!!”, yes, they can. We have a toolbelt.
Both classes have extra skills (we have double heal/utility skills, they have quadruple weapon skills) and both classes in turn cannot swap weapons.

Consider it that way around, weapon-switching gives you double the weapon skills. Instead of that, Engineers have double the heal/utility skills but – like Elementalists – the extra skills depend on the main skills.

I mentioned them exactly in the line above the one you quoted.
And they give up a weapon to get…a weapon set back and two additional ones. Double the number of the weapon skills, in total, plus utilities.
We are on the opposite spectrum: the only class that has a single weapon by default, with a fixed penalty (due to kits) on them.
And sure, we have our toolbelt…but do you want really to compare the potency and number of elementalists’ extra skills (15) to our extra skills (4)? Especially considering that if we get something good, the main utility is nerfed in return (see: elixir R)?
And often their effect is just a normal one splitted between the utility for the user and the toolbelt for the allies – like all the elixirs apart from R. Any other class would use the utility directly as an area buff (see: shouts). Without even having to spend time to aim an unpractical aoe. Let alone the random effects.
Or turrets? Their toolbelt can’t even be used while the main utility is active. Either one or the other.
Gadgets’ toolbelt are nice…but gadgets themselves are mostly useless, they just don’t have the same value of kits as opportunity costs go. And their traits…heh, we should say, “the lack of them”.

Or the lack of toolbelt traits – 3 of them, two of whose are minor ones, all in the last tree. And that should be our main mechanic.

Guardians too have extra skills, three of them, all of them signet-like. Yet they still have a second weapon. And 11 traits about their virtues.

We start at a disadvantage – one weapon less than anyone else – and must spend an utility slot just to catch up. At this point, any other class has still all their weapons, their utilities and whatever more is offered from their class mechanic. We have one less utility slot and a weapon nerfed to begin with.

The alternative is using a weakened-by-design single weapon and being forced to spam the autoattack half of the time because all our other skills are necessarily in recharge.
And it isn’t like this weapon can be made stronger…we must be balanced either by using a single one (plus utilities) than using one and four other kits. A balance nightmare. One that i don’t expect will ever be solved, unless they make each other utility strong like a kit.