Guild Wars 2

I just was watching the Ready Up for the great feature release coming up, and I have to thank each and every one of you that didn’t give up on talking about and suggesting great new things for the engineer and doggedly requesting fixes to bugs and issues that have plagued the engineer profession since launch. I remember specific threads where our cool-headed, devious engies (Phineas Pho, you’re definitely that guy) talked about turrets giving boons when placed, and look what great new alchemy grandmaster trait we’re going to get…

It’s weird. I’m full of anxiety in the real world and I’m afraid to make my voice heard, and most times I don’t think it’ll matter if I say what needs to be changed. I just try to help, do damage control and move on. But there’s that electric feeling when something you’ve wished for out loud on the forums shows up in the game you enjoy so much. You feel like you’ve actually made a difference.

So I want to thank all of you again, and especially the great people at Arenanet that silently listened and gave real consideration to all our suggestions, whether they were way out there or right on the money. Allie, Grouch, Priest, Roy and Karl? You and all the hard-working programmers and artists that made this profession as amazing as it currently is and will be…All I can do is fight my hardest in the coming weeks to show you all how happy I am. See you all in game!

I actually am looking forward to these traits, figuring out a way to work with turrets will be cool for me, also the gadget trait gives me great ideas!

I’m looking forward to these traits as well. Hopefully we get some new suggested skills to go along with them. erhem minigun

As I have stated in other posts, some of the GM traits across multiple classes seem weak until you really think about them.

For engineer, the bubble on the turret will be great IF a player or a few players can stand under it. You get 4 seconds of reflection and can in theory refresh it every 10ish seconds with 2 fast cool down turrets. Depending on radius and depending on if it reflects siege shots like the bubble on siege weapons. . . .

I personally drift arround in the “not sure if i like it or not” zone. A shame that the flamer didnt get anything usefull. Some more dps or a permanent flame jet trait would be all i personally need. Yea sure.. shield bubble is nice and all. But how does it act against aoe? Does it only protect itself or me aswell if i stand in it? Turret “buff fields”.. sure nice and all, but are the hitboxes fixed, is the survivability granted to make the turrets actually be helpfull in combat now? Do the turrets now atleast fire at the enemie atleast ONCE before they get instantly smashed like a vase at an houseparty? How about the buffs of the turrets? Do they actually change the outcome of a fight or does sipping some potions and just nuking the healing turret instantly after placement still gives me what i need?
Well.. ill just wait and see how the turrets work with the patch.

Penguin.5197:

I’m looking forward to these traits as well. Hopefully we get some new suggested skills to go along with them. erhem minigun

Oh my gosh, Engi minigun would feel like a sweet elite! Wait a minute… Next Engineer CDI I think I know what I’m mashing into a comment box!

Basaltface.2786:

I personally drift arround in the “not sure if i like it or not” zone. A shame that the flamer didnt get anything usefull. Some more dps or a permanent flame jet trait would be all i personally need. Yea sure.. shield bubble is nice and all. But how does it act against aoe? Does it only protect itself or me aswell if i stand in it? Turret “buff fields”.. sure nice and all, but are the hitboxes fixed, is the survivability granted to make the turrets actually be helpfull in combat now? Do the turrets now atleast fire at the enemie atleast ONCE before they get instantly smashed like a vase at an houseparty? How about the buffs of the turrets? Do they actually change the outcome of a fight or does sipping some potions and just nuking the healing turret instantly after placement still gives me what i need?
Well.. ill just wait and see how the turrets work with the patch.

As far as the Flame Thrower, me too? But then I thought about dual proc sigils and my smile wouldn’t go away

Also I would highly suggest you watch the recent GuildWars2 twitch stream Ready Up and skip to the engineer fixes section. According to the devs, they reduced turret hitbox, and they fixed the stalling issues. Now if they can just buff turret health or armor, let them scale with our other traits, I’ll be a happy…killer-type person like I guess all of us are in GW2. I think it’ll finally be okay to be a turret engineer outside of sPvP. And man oh man those other traits! I think we finally have burst, but it’s not guaranteed burst. Just really potent melee. The passive buffs, especially from Thumper Turret, really look like they’ll be great for the decap engi if the current version gets nerfed. I can’t say I’ll be sorry to see that build go. I’m gonna go read the other profession forums to see how people are liking the upcoming changes. I should probably be playing and gathering to make some new patch gold, but I’m honestly enjoying the pre-patch forum posts.

i remember seeing an idea like bunker down somewhere on the forum too… couldnt find it though

Bombsaway.7198:

As I have stated in other posts, some of the GM traits across multiple classes seem weak until you really think about them.

For engineer, the bubble on the turret will be great IF a player or a few players can stand under it. You get 4 seconds of reflection and can in theory refresh it every 10ish seconds with 2 fast cool down turrets. Depending on radius and depending on if it reflects siege shots like the bubble on siege weapons. . . .

And then any AoE comes – quite likely, if all those players are together in a point you’ve basically drawn a giant target upon yourselves – and you can say goodbye to the turrets, as they will still be made of paper, if anything changed about it. As they haven’t said anything about making them sturdier, it will be probably so.

That’s also why it will be near useless in PvE as well.
To use them properly, you’ve got to be near them. And that’s like the worst thing you can do if you want to see your turrets alive.

9 posts for a thread explicitly made to highlight the positive outlook to turn into something negative.

Never change, forums. Never change.

Adamantium.3682:

9 posts for a thread explicitly made to highlight the positive outlook to turn into something negative.

Never change, forums. Never change.

Ironically, this can be perceived as a negative comment as well XD

In any case, I think that saying about bees and vinegar and honey is relevant here… although quite frankly I don’t even like bees, so I wouldn’t be trying to give them stuff in the first place.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Adamantium.3682:

9 posts for a thread explicitly made to highlight the positive outlook to turn into something negative.

Never change, forums. Never change.

Ironically, this can be perceived as a negative comment as well XD

In any case, I think that saying about bees and vinegar and honey is relevant here… although quite frankly I don’t even like bees, so I wouldn’t be trying to give them stuff in the first place.

Hey I ain’t complainin’ about anything. I just think it’s funny some people can’t help themselves.

I don’t like bees either.

Well, just being positive doesn’t help much to a discussion. Pessimist concrete people like me are needed to balance other optimist people out there.
Especially with a class like this, literally balanced over best cases (see: grenade kit).

I’m trying to be optimistic, but to be honest, our new grandmaster traits are pretty lackluster, especially when compared to other class’s traits. I don’t think anyone is going to sacrifice all that DPS to go 30 into alchemy, and stop using better kits like flamthrower or grenades, just to get some reflects, which are still no where near as good as Mesmer or Guardian reflects.

All in all, none of the new traits or changes have helped the plight of the engineer: we will still be shunned from dungeons, and restricted to PvP and WvW, and even in those fields we will not be anywhere near as good as other classes, due to their new traits and buffs.

I had a dream last night that we were getting a new kit on the big patch but not the one I was hoping for…it was some sort of electric or ray gun.

Hey, one can dream.

#optimistic

Seamus McPlatofart.7269:

I’m trying to be optimistic, but to be honest, our new grandmaster traits are pretty lackluster, especially when compared to other class’s traits. I don’t think anyone is going to sacrifice all that DPS to go 30 into alchemy, and stop using better kits like flamthrower or grenades, just to get some reflects, which are still no where near as good as Mesmer or Guardian reflects.

All in all, none of the new traits or changes have helped the plight of the engineer: we will still be shunned from dungeons, and restricted to PvP and WvW, and even in those fields we will not be anywhere near as good as other classes, due to their new traits and buffs.

Better kits like Flamethrower? Shunned from dungeons? Restricted to PvP where we’re not even that good anyways?? What Engineer have you been playing O_O. The Flamethrower is not a good kit compared to explosives (could be why you are shunned from dungeons?) and Engineers are very good across all game modes including PvE.

Seems like we go through this every major update. The sky is not falling, and Engineers are fine. Even the worst nerf in Engineer history (Kit Refinement) didn’t ruin us.

Keep calm and explode on!

Bunker Down : If that mine remove boons like the others, it’s a really strong trait for PvP and WvW, and depending on the damages it could also be good for PvE.

Fortified Turrets : Using a full turret build, you can pretty much get 16s of reflect, not counting the pickup/redeploy. Very useful on many occasions, can probably rival guardians and mesmers (sacrifying more utility on the other hand).

Gadgeteer : Obviously for damage builds, static discharge seems promising.

Some class got better traits but engi is not in a bad position. Poor rangers xD.

Speaking only for myself here… i hate bombs and grenades. They are stupid, feel stupid to play and are annoying to look at aswell. Before i use them myself i rather just quit playing engi alltogether. The new traits left a sour taste in my mouth aswell. Cause yea.. its hard to belive but not everybody likes to be bag of bombs and grenades that got a hole somewhere and looses one all few feet. I also gave completely up on getting any dps together and turned my engi to a full time medic… that seems to be the only real purpose for me anyways. I do fine in dungeons.. and nobody complains about having a healer that can pretty much heal almost constantly and keep regen on them all the time, aswell remove boons and remote revive and here and there add some conditions on the enemie. I will never, EVER be able to do anything solo related with my engi anymore.. but heh i gave up on beeing a battle beast anyways. Gonna keep ppl alive to kill kitten and then get my piece of the loot. Thats it gonna be for me as engi on gw2. Call me stupid if it makes you feel happy.

A “turrets gain X% of your toughness” trait would be nice.

Or vitality.

Adamantium.3682:

Seamus McPlatofart.7269:

I’m trying to be optimistic, but to be honest, our new grandmaster traits are pretty lackluster, especially when compared to other class’s traits. I don’t think anyone is going to sacrifice all that DPS to go 30 into alchemy, and stop using better kits like flamthrower or grenades, just to get some reflects, which are still no where near as good as Mesmer or Guardian reflects.

All in all, none of the new traits or changes have helped the plight of the engineer: we will still be shunned from dungeons, and restricted to PvP and WvW, and even in those fields we will not be anywhere near as good as other classes, due to their new traits and buffs.

Better kits like Flamethrower? Shunned from dungeons? Restricted to PvP where we’re not even that good anyways?? What Engineer have you been playing O_O. The Flamethrower is not a good kit compared to explosives (could be why you are shunned from dungeons?) and Engineers are very good across all game modes including PvE.

Seems like we go through this every major update. The sky is not falling, and Engineers are fine. Even the worst nerf in Engineer history (Kit Refinement) didn’t ruin us.

Keep calm and explode on!

I prefer to use grenades and bombs. But everyone keeps telling me how much more power they get from flamthrower.

“Restricted to PvP where we’re not even that good anyways??”

Whatever you are smoking, I want some. Engi’s are one of the best PvP classes in the game. Have you gone against a decap engi? Even a condi engi is absolutely amazing, and difficult for anyone to counter.

Also, go look at the general consensus. Most people view engi’s as under powered in dungeons, right down there with Necros and Hunters, and feel like the warriors and guardians of the group are carrying them. I don’t personally believe that engi’s are that bad in dungeons, but they are under powered enough; you would be better off bringing a zerker warrior or a guardian into a dungeon. Either of those classes will out DPS an engi in PVE content, hands down. As well as bring better, more reliable, buffs for the group.

Manuhell.2759:

And then any AoE comes – quite likely, if all those players are together in a point you’ve basically drawn a giant target upon yourselves – and you can say goodbye to the turrets, as they will still be made of paper, if anything changed about it. As they haven’t said anything about making them sturdier, it will be probably so.

And? If your dumb enough to set up this way and invite an AoE attack, then that is what you get. It seems rather stupid to me to suggest this is an inherent turret flaw.

Seamus McPlatofart.7269:

I prefer to use grenades and bombs. But everyone keeps telling me how much more power they get from flamthrower.

Whoever told you this is off their rocker. Check out the PvE Metariffic Engineer thread made by Phineas Poe. That is the best build for damage in PvE right now, and it doesn’t use Flamethrower. Flamethrower is not a great (or even good) kit right now.

Whatever you are smoking, I want some. Engi’s are one of the best PvP classes in the game. Have you gone against a decap engi? Even a condi engi is absolutely amazing, and difficult for anyone to counter.

I… was… quoting you… You said that the other professions are better than us at PvP not me lol. You said: “we will still be restricted to PvP and WvW, and even in those fields we will not be anywhere near as good as other classes”.

Seamus McPlatofart.7269:

Also, go look at the general consensus. Most people view engi’s as under powered in dungeons, right down there with Necros and Hunters, and feel like the warriors and guardians of the group are carrying them. I don’t personally believe that engi’s are that bad in dungeons, but they are under powered enough; you would be better off bringing a zerker warrior or a guardian into a dungeon. Either of those classes will out DPS an engi in PVE content, hands down. As well as bring better, more reliable, buffs for the group.

I think the whole “what other people think” thing gets blown way out of proportion sometimes. I’ve never been kicked out of a group, and being an Engi has never been an issue. If that were the “general consensus” as you say it is, wouldn’t most of us have experienced that? I only see the odd post once in awhile alluding to this mystical place where Engineers aren’t welcome. In fact many times I’ve heard “thank goodness we have a good Engi here” when I revive people quickly with Toss R, nearly full heal my group with blasts in water fields, stealth everyone, or gives us all tons of might. Sure, Eles can blast their own water fields, Thieves stack stealth, Warriors revive better… but we’re 1 profession and that’s 3 just to match what we routinely bring to dungeons (without even building for support, as those professions wouldn’t either).

coglin.1867:

And? If your dumb enough to set up this way and invite an AoE attack, then that is what you get. It seems rather stupid to me to suggest this is an inherent turret flaw.

Well, them being made of paper is an inherent turret flaw. But aside that i just pointed out the flaw in the strategy made by the people who posted that, anyway. So i can’t understand why you’re even referring to me with the first paragraph, since we’re basically saying the same thing.

(and unfortunately it will work the same way in PvE as well, anyway)

Adamantium.3682:

Seamus McPlatofart.7269:

I prefer to use grenades and bombs. But everyone keeps telling me how much more power they get from flamthrower.

Whoever told you this is off their rocker. Check out the PvE Metariffic Engineer thread made by Phineas Poe. That is the best build for damage in PvE right now, and it doesn’t use Flamethrower. Flamethrower is not a great (or even good) kit right now.

Whatever you are smoking, I want some. Engi’s are one of the best PvP classes in the game. Have you gone against a decap engi? Even a condi engi is absolutely amazing, and difficult for anyone to counter.

I… was… quoting you… You said that the other professions are better than us at PvP not me lol. You said: “we will still be restricted to PvP and WvW, and even in those fields we will not be anywhere near as good as other classes”.

Seamus McPlatofart.7269:

Also, go look at the general consensus. Most people view engi’s as under powered in dungeons, right down there with Necros and Hunters, and feel like the warriors and guardians of the group are carrying them. I don’t personally believe that engi’s are that bad in dungeons, but they are under powered enough; you would be better off bringing a zerker warrior or a guardian into a dungeon. Either of those classes will out DPS an engi in PVE content, hands down. As well as bring better, more reliable, buffs for the group.

I think the whole “what other people think” thing gets blown way out of proportion sometimes. I’ve never been kicked out of a group, and being an Engi has never been an issue. If that were the “general consensus” as you say it is, wouldn’t most of us have experienced that? I only see the odd post once in awhile alluding to this mystical place where Engineers aren’t welcome. In fact many times I’ve heard “thank goodness we have a good Engi here” when I revive people quickly with Toss R, nearly full heal my group with blasts in water fields, stealth everyone, or gives us all tons of might. Sure, Eles can blast their own water fields, Thieves stack stealth, Warriors revive better… but we’re 1 profession and that’s 3 just to match what we routinely bring to dungeons (without even building for support, as those professions wouldn’t either).

I apologize, I misunderstood you. Also, I misspoke; I did not mean to imply that engi’s are bad at PvP, as I stated in my latter post, I think they are amazing at PvP. But even as amazing as they are, Necros are still leagues ahead of us.

I did want to ask, is the build you have in your signature, the one you are currently using for dungeons?

necros arent leagues ahead of engis, necro just hard counters engi. just like how thief hard counters s/x ele. or how (in wvw) power bruiser engi hard counters any warrior using a hammer.

Seamus McPlatofart.7269:

I apologize, I misunderstood you. Also, I misspoke; I did not mean to imply that engi’s are bad at PvP, as I stated in my latter post, I think they are amazing at PvP. But even as amazing as they are, Necros are still leagues ahead of us.

I did want to ask, is the build you have in your signature, the one you are currently using for dungeons?

S’all good. As insane posted right above me ^^^, Necros aren’t leagues ahead of us, they’re simply our hard counter. They exploit our weaknessess (mainly condis, also lack of stability) far better than any other profession. If you only played Engi they may seem god mode, but overall they’re not. Just against us it seems that way.

Yes what I’m currently using in PvE or sPvP is in my signature.

I’m also looking forward to the changes to turrets, particularly the reflect. But I still see one problem: Will a 4 sec reflect every 10 secs be enough to outplay any of our other dmg skills? Imo the answer is no. We have to sacrifice a lot of trait points in order to get this reflect, taking out a substantial amount of the dps and important traits that a Bomb or Grenade Engi might need in PvE. The guard and the mesmer, the only two other classes with reflects galore, don’t have to sacrifice anything for that! Except maybe the mesmer for the focus reflect but that is still not a lot in comparison to what we have to sacrifice for that!
Sure we become more supportive on the one hand, but we have to give up a lot for that!

The alchemy grandmaster is interesting though, since it could synergize well with FT/EG builds and our ability to gain perma swiftness as well. Same goes for the Firearms trait in this case. Being able to spam mines every 2s with the critical hits that the FT does sounds pretty awesome and helps kiting things! Gadgeteer is kind of meh, won’t be going that deep into gadgets for something I can easily get from somehwere else.

Seamus McPlatofart.7269:

Also, go look at the general consensus. Most people view engi’s as under powered in dungeons, right down there with Necros and Hunters, and feel like the warriors and guardians of the group are carrying them. I don’t personally believe that engi’s are that bad in dungeons, but they are under powered enough; you would be better off bringing a zerker warrior or a guardian into a dungeon. Either of those classes will out DPS an engi in PVE content, hands down. As well as bring better, more reliable, buffs for the group.

That’s it, most people view warrior as the best dps class when it isn’t at all, it’s just easier to play and more forgiving due to their HP pool and armor. Engineer is worth a slot in any dungeon team just because of the perma 25 vuln.

I like the sound of the new traits, it might be true or not other classes get better stuff but right now i think its awsome they gave some new traits to try and work with considering our turrets and gadgets.

Certainly ill try to make some turret / support build with 90% boon duration
Sounds really awsome to try and play.

I don’t know what other traits are coming to us aside from the reflection shield on turrets trait, but that already has me super excited. Just with that one trait, I’ll be a much better support in fights with lupicos. If I want to go rev someone with lupi throwing projectiles everywhere, I can just plop a handy turret down and rev without any worries ^^ I’m rlly looking forward to playing with my engi’s build come april!

arkealia.2713:

Seamus McPlatofart.7269:

Also, go look at the general consensus. Most people view engi’s as under powered in dungeons, right down there with Necros and Hunters, and feel like the warriors and guardians of the group are carrying them. I don’t personally believe that engi’s are that bad in dungeons, but they are under powered enough; you would be better off bringing a zerker warrior or a guardian into a dungeon. Either of those classes will out DPS an engi in PVE content, hands down. As well as bring better, more reliable, buffs for the group.

That’s it, most people view warrior as the best dps class when it isn’t at all, it’s just easier to play and more forgiving due to their HP pool and armor. Engineer is worth a slot in any dungeon team just because of the perma 25 vuln.

I agree, to an extent. No other class can even come close to the warrior’s burst damage ability, and that makes them the most powerful and effective class for dungeons. So if you have a dungeon group with no warriors or engi’s in it, and you need to fill one more spot: so long as things are the way they are now, you will be better off bringing the warrior. However, if you already have a warrior or two in your group, having a pure damage engi along will increase the groups damage quite well.

Engi’s aren’t useless in dungeons, its just that most classes can do the things that make us useful in dungeons, just a bit better. Warriors do more damage, and do it faster. Both warriors and guardians can put out powerful group buffs more often. Ele’s can put out more frequent combo fields. Ele’s, Mesmers, and guardians can all reflect projectiles more effectively.

Engi’s do all those things, making us useful in a dungeon, but we just cant do them nearly as effectively as the classes I just mentioned, making us not AS useful. An engi is basically a “jack of all trades, master of none.” And with the way dungeons are right now, groups need masters, not jacks.

Seamus McPlatofart.7269:

Engi’s do all those things, making us useful in a dungeon, but we just cant do them nearly as effectively as the classes I just mentioned, making us not AS useful. An engi is basically a “jack of all trades, master of none.” And with the way dungeons are right now, groups need masters, not jacks.

I see no reason why there can’t be parties of “masters of none”, there just generally aren’t enough engineers around that you find yourself with a full party of engineers. Personally I don’t run dungeons “just to get them done”, I run them for fun, and would welcome a party of engineers running different builds to suit the parties needs. With the on the fly trait change coming we’ll have parties adapting to the dungeons as they need to as well which will definitely help with running specific jobs for specific parts of dungeons with engineers being the most versatile in job this’ll be ideal ^^

Seamus McPlatofart.7269:

Engi’s aren’t useless in dungeons, its just that most classes can do the things that make us useful in dungeons, just a bit better. Warriors do more damage, and do it faster. Both warriors and guardians can put out powerful group buffs more often. Ele’s can put out more frequent combo fields. Ele’s, Mesmers, and guardians can all reflect projectiles more effectively.

Engi’s do all those things, making us useful in a dungeon, but we just cant do them nearly as effectively as the classes I just mentioned, making us not AS useful. An engi is basically a “jack of all trades, master of none.” And with the way dungeons are right now, groups need masters, not jacks.

This is sort of what I was getting at though. You can list 3 or 4 professions that can do certain things just as good or slightly better than an Engineer, but isn’t there value to having just 1 slot in the party do those things instead of 3 or 4? I think so.

You’re welcome. I still find it fascinating that in 2014 players still believe that engineers are underpowered. Despite the fact that we can stack 17 seconds of stealth on our party, that we can stack vulnerability better than anyone else, that we can cleanse conditions better than anyone else, that we offer 12-15 stacks of might to our parties along with some of the best AoE DPS in the game—both ranged and melee—people still genuinely believe in good faith that we are a bad class.

It just boggles me. Having leveled all the other 7 classes to 80 now, it still boggles me that anyone would suggest that an engineer is not worth taking to any dungeon or fractal.

I don’t think we’re the best class in the game currently, but we’re situated comfortably. Our 30/30/0/0/10 meta build isn’t on the chopping block, and PvP bunker builds are getting a buff both with AED and the new traits. Even Static Discharge is seeing a buff with the new Gadgeteer trait.

I am very excited for April 15, and I look forward to pushing my engineer in new directions in PvP/WvW as well as having the opportunity to make the fullest advantage of on-command trait line swapping for what is the most adaptive class in the game. I don’t think much will be changing, and I expect to still be running 30/30/0/0/10 most of the time. But it will be fun tinkering build variants for situational content.

We’re already a huge contributor in Dredge Fractal for our stealth. Now we’re going to be able to drop 30 points into Inventions and Alchemy and carry our groups through Harpy with 30+ seconds of projectile reflects. I feel like now more than ever engineers are a sought-after class for high-level FOTM.

Are engineers gonna be still the toughest profession to play with after this patch? Im new to engi and just made one and dont wanna be a fail at dungeons or fractals.

Lord De Galelly.9735:

Are engineers gonna be still the toughest profession to play with after this patch? Im new to engi and just made one and dont wanna be a fail at dungeons or fractals.

I think it best that you start learning to play your class.

Lord De Galelly.9735:

Are engineers gonna be still the toughest profession to play with after this patch? Im new to engi and just made one and dont wanna be a fail at dungeons or fractals.

Its actually not too hard imo. Just maybe a few more button presses but neccessarily a high skill requirement

Great post Phinneas as always! completely agree with what you say!
Some people are forgetting that we can change our traits now while we are ooc, giving us even more flexibility to swap between grenades, ft/eg, bombs and full turret reflect build if need be!

Well, to be fair, I am not impressed by the new Turrets GM at all. I’ve played my Turret Engineer for a long time, still playing it, and the only things I am looking forward are the Turret bug fixes and the Runes/Sigils update.

The 2 new turrets GM traits, while they do offer another approach of gameplay, are mostly lackluster and way to much counter productive for the following reasons :

1) Experimental Turret is a good GM to buff your party with a variety of boon but it is located so deeply into the Alchemy line that it makes it worthless. It means you have to give up 2 Major trait slots that could have been spend instead for your turret utility/surviability instead.

2) Fortified Turret is a very bad turret trait. If I learned something when i played my Turret Engineer, you can’t afford to get close to them or else they get destroyed by AoEs/Cleaves. That trait doesn’t prevent any of those two effects and actualy gives you the bad idea and to your team instead to get near of them so they can easier get squashed out in the massive AoEs/Cleaves fest. This is a huge issue and this trait would have been much more interesting for a Gadget build.

3) Fortified Turret trait also shares the slot of Rifled Turret Barrels, this trait (in conjucture with deployable turret) is what allows good Turret Engineer to keep their turrets alive. That extra range is the factor to your turrets surviability and will decide if your turret are going to get stucked by AoEs, Cleaves or just take aggro because they were to close from your foes. Not to mention RTB actualy makes Flame Turret pretty decent at burning multiple ennemies and increases the radius of the Smoke Field overcharge.

Overall, I don’t mind the additional traits, but I do think A-net could have come with some better ideas instead of those…

Ambrecombe.4398:

Well, to be fair, I am not impressed by the new Turrets GM at all. I’ve played my Turret Engineer for a long time, still playing it, and the only things I am looking forward are the Turret bug fixes and the Runes/Sigils update.

The 2 new turrets GM traits, while they do offer another approach of gameplay, are mostly lackluster and way to much counter productive for the following reasons :

1) Experimental Turret is a good GM to buff your party with a variety of boon but it is located so deeply into the Alchemy line that it makes it worthless. It means you have to give up 2 Major trait slots that could have been spend instead for your turret utility/surviability instead.

It’s a very powerful trait. That’s one trait that deserves to be in the GM tier simply by virtue of how powerful it can be. 4s of Prot every 10 secs? I don’t think any other class can have that much prot uptime apart from a stealth spamming Mesmer. 3 Stacks of might that last for 14s every 10s? With a Guardian that’s 15stacks at the start of a fight and a constant stream of 3 stacks with intervals in which you’ll have 6 instead. With a flamethrower build that’s a perma 9/10 stack.

I seriously can’t see how that trait could ever be a waste.

Dirame.8521:

Ambrecombe.4398:

Well, to be fair, I am not impressed by the new Turrets GM at all. I’ve played my Turret Engineer for a long time, still playing it, and the only things I am looking forward are the Turret bug fixes and the Runes/Sigils update.

The 2 new turrets GM traits, while they do offer another approach of gameplay, are mostly lackluster and way to much counter productive for the following reasons :

1) Experimental Turret is a good GM to buff your party with a variety of boon but it is located so deeply into the Alchemy line that it makes it worthless. It means you have to give up 2 Major trait slots that could have been spend instead for your turret utility/surviability instead.

It’s a very powerful trait. That’s one trait that deserves to be in the GM tier simply by virtue of how powerful it can be. 4s of Prot every 10 secs? I don’t think any other class can have that much prot uptime apart from a stealth spamming Mesmer. 3 Stacks of might that last for 14s every 10s? With a Guardian that’s 15stacks at the start of a fight and a constant stream of 3 stacks with intervals in which you’ll have 6 instead. With a flamethrower build that’s a perma 9/10 stack.

I seriously can’t see how that trait could ever be a waste.

Dirame, I’m not saying its a bad trait. I am just saying it is not worth the investement.

You are going to give up a lot of trait points for a skill line that doesn’t provide any damage bonus to your character. Not to mention, you will still need to spend points in your invention traitline if you don’t want to see your turrets get blown even faster than they already do.

So you will probably go for at least a 0/0/20/30/0 if you want to make your turrets a bit sutainable to have the best out of experimental turrets leaving very few places for more offensive traitlines, wich is a shame.

If your turrets get destroyed you don’t get the buffs anymore, and some of the turrets have some very nasty cooldowns (especialy Thumper). So it isn’t as powerfull as you try to make it sound like.

Does it deserve to be a GM trait? Yes definitly!

Does it deserve to be an alchemy GM? Hell no!

PS : For your information, Hammer Guardians with Symbol traits can stack protection with ease just by using their auto-attack.

Dirame.8521:

It’s a very powerful trait. That’s one trait that deserves to be in the GM tier simply by virtue of how powerful it can be. 4s of Prot every 10 secs? I don’t think any other class can have that much prot uptime apart from a stealth spamming Mesmer. 3 Stacks of might that last for 14s every 10s? With a Guardian that’s 15stacks at the start of a fight and a constant stream of 3 stacks with intervals in which you’ll have 6 instead. With a flamethrower build that’s a perma 9/10 stack.

I seriously can’t see how that trait could ever be a waste.

I think you’re really underestimating how easy it is to get these boons. Guards just by using hammer and 1 master trait already give perma AOE protection. You can get far more might from utilizing fire fields and blast finishers than leaving out a Flame Turret. These are just two examples, but the boons from any of the turrets just aren’t as valuable as you’re making them sound.

The trait is not that powerful to me. It gives some nice boons, but nothing build defining, which is what Anet has defined GM traits to be. The “waste” in my opinion is simply where this trait is. Literally anywhere else (besides Firearms) would have been a better choice. Sinking 6 of 14 trait points (new system) just for some free boons is not at all what I would call an efficient use of trait points, especially for turrets which are already very trait dependent. You have no room for offensive traits if you do this, and heaven knows with turrets you need it.

I’m surprised that nobody’s talked about the new GM in Explosives. Yes, alone, it looks a bit underwhelming, especially if it only applies to strict knockbacks, and not launches and the like, but I can already think of a use for it, and that would be with the FT. Yes, the FT is still a bit subpar, but the new trait can help compensate a bit, since Flame Jet is about the only skill I can think of on the Engie that really benefits from quickness, and the FT also has a knockback to proc the quickness. Still not the most amazing thing ever (retal will still murder you), but with, say, a 30/30/0/10/0 FT build, it could be decently strong, especially if paired with Accelerant-Packed Turrets and a crate.

Another, more crackpot, idea I’ve come up with for this trait is quickness Elixir-Infused Bombs. You knock someone back with the shield knockback, which will give you some breathing room, then switch to the bomb kit and start dumping bombs at your feet. It would result in a lot of small heals going off at just about the same time, which could be quite strong.

These are just a couple of ideas for the new trait from an Engie that loves trying crazy builds, and likes to try to see the possible combinations of traits and skills that could work. However, if the new GM trait has a silly long cd (30 seconds is about the highest I would like to see it be), these ideas will be dead in the water, which would be sad, because personally, I would love to see an Engie drop healing bombs rapid fire.

Adamantium.3682:

Dirame.8521:

It’s a very powerful trait. That’s one trait that deserves to be in the GM tier simply by virtue of how powerful it can be. 4s of Prot every 10 secs? I don’t think any other class can have that much prot uptime apart from a stealth spamming Mesmer. 3 Stacks of might that last for 14s every 10s? With a Guardian that’s 15stacks at the start of a fight and a constant stream of 3 stacks with intervals in which you’ll have 6 instead. With a flamethrower build that’s a perma 9/10 stack.

I seriously can’t see how that trait could ever be a waste.

I think you’re really underestimating how easy it is to get these boons. Guards just by using hammer and 1 master trait already give perma AOE protection. You can get far more might from utilizing fire fields and blast finishers than leaving out a Flame Turret. These are just two examples, but the boons from any of the turrets just aren’t as valuable as you’re making them sound.

The trait is not that powerful to me. It gives some nice boons, but nothing build defining, which is what Anet has defined GM traits to be. The “waste” in my opinion is simply where this trait is. Literally anywhere else (besides Firearms) would have been a better choice. Sinking 6 of 14 trait points (new system) just for some free boons is not at all what I would call an efficient use of trait points, especially for turrets which are already very trait dependent. You have no room for offensive traits if you do this, and heaven knows with turrets you need it.

You think i am underestimating how easy it is to get boons and I think you’re underestimating how lazy people are. If people can gains boons by simply standing in one place, they bloody well will.

Perma prot requires you to be in melee, might stacks require combos, on the other hand turrets require placing them in a safe place, guess who wins?

Also you seem to think that you have to invest all your points into turrets to use that trait when the reality is, that’s not what this is about. I’ve always said that turrets are a supplement to a build, if you don’t want to take Incendiary powder, you can take flame turret and now if you don’t want to take Protection injection, you can take Thumper turret with the Experimental Turrets trait and that leaves space for another trait.

My bunker builds will now look like this;

Burst Healer;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQJAqelUUpkr9ZxyKseRSM+wnDfw+ieUZLDgPFkLA
Protection + Vigor +Regen

Dodge Master;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQJAqelUUpkr9ZxyKseNSM6xnFdmDVw+ieUZLDAA
Protection + Vigor +Regen

Bunker Engie;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQJAqelUUpkr9ZxdLseNSE6h9NsaF9Q/WGAfKIXA
Vigor +Regen

and my FT/EG might stacking build will look like this;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vcAQJAqelUUpWrtbxqKseRSMqwnBpQv3V0D9TZA8pAdB
Vigor + Regen + 3 Might stacks

Supplements to the build, not the build itself.

Outside of high level FOTM no one seriously runs the hammer. Besides, hammer guard may give permanent protection but they also unfortunately drop a permanent light field that constantly overrides might stacking.

They also must be attacking a target whereas an engineer can simply drop a turret on command. It will be useful.

everybody is getting too worked up about the traits. yeah the traits are a bit poo poo but whatever. it’ll save me money and time not bothering to get them. the real prize of the patch is the ability to respec anytime anywhere. also i am pretty pumped to use runes of balthazar in pvp.

also i hate hammer guards. if anyone has a guard alt, do not run hammer guard in pve ever. run sword/focus + scepter/shield or torch like a pro and stop dropping dam symbols. every freakin time AREA RETAL AREA RETAL AREA RETAL.

Dirame.8521:

You think i am underestimating how easy it is to get boons and I think you’re underestimating how lazy people are. If people can gains boons by simply standing in one place, they bloody well will.

And by standing near of your turrets to get the boons they will unfortunatly draw aggro from AoEs/Cleaves wich will result in the destruction of your turret. Leaving your utility on cooldown and your team without a single boon.

Dirame.8521:

Perma prot requires you to be in melee, might stacks require combos, on the other hand turrets require placing them in a safe place, guess who wins? .

You can already get plenty of might just with your turret self-destruct ability and what’s the point to place your Thumper away from your ennemies if you can’t Snare, Combo Blast/KB the ennemies by putting your turret in a safe place? Not to mention Protection is not that important for ranged characters because, unlike melee characters , they only have to worry about ranged telegraphs and AoE ground targeting.

Dirame.8521:

Also you seem to think that you have to invest all your points into turrets to use that trait when the reality is, that’s not what this is about. I’ve always said that turrets are a supplement to a build, if you don’t want to take Incendiary powder, you can take flame turret and now if you don’t want to take Protection injection, you can take Thumper turret with the Experimental Turrets trait and that leaves space for another trait.

The problem is, if you don’t invest at least points into turret surviability and deployable turrets you are going to see your utilities on cooldown more often than you would like to see it. While on the other hand, an Elixir build can give you more utility and boon stacking and this in a much safer way.

Please, don’t get us wrong, Adamantium and I don’t believe the trait is actualy teribad, we just think it is rather inadequate for the current Turret situation and cripples the turret gameplay more than it is benificial to it.

ellesee.8297:

also i hate hammer guards. if anyone has a guard alt, do not run hammer guard in pve ever. run sword/focus + scepter/shield or torch like a pro and stop dropping dam symbols. every freakin time AREA RETAL AREA RETAL AREA RETAL.

Well a good Hammer guardian should always bring some consecration abilities, I use Consecrated Ground and Purging Flames and people usualy don’t have any issues with might stacking sinds you can use both of those ability separetly before putting a Symbol of protection to overdrive the Light Field.

Not to mention you don’t need perma Fire Fields, you just need it long enough to stack 25stacks of might, after that Light Fields are much more beneficial for the condi removal on combo projectiles.

Also if you have issues with people droping Light Fields, I personnaly use Blasting staff on my Elem and put my Fire Field a bit more on my right to still deal the dmg and leave room for the Fire Combo Blast Finishers. Wich works just fine if people bother to strafe 2inches on their right side.

Ambrecombe.4398:

And by standing near of your turrets to get the boons they will unfortunatly draw aggro from AoEs/Cleaves wich will result in the destruction of your turret. Leaving your utility on cooldown and your team without a single boon.

Did you not see the 600 range bit?

Ambrecombe.4398:

You can already get plenty of might just with your turret self-destruct ability and what’s the point to place your Thumper away from your ennemies if you can’t Snare, Combo Blast/KB the ennemies by putting your turret in a safe place? Not to mention Protection is not that important for ranged characters because, unlike melee characters , they only have to worry about ranged telegraphs and AoE ground targeting.

As a class with a lot of knockbacks, we don’t really have to have Thumper in the centre of the point and even if we did have it in the centre, it wouldn’t die as fast as other turrets would.

Ambrecombe.4398:

The problem is, if you don’t invest at least points into turret surviability and deployable turrets you are going to see your utilities on cooldown more often than you would like to see it. While on the other hand, an Elixir build can give you more utility and boon stacking and this in a much safer way.

If you want to be a selfish player then that’s up to you but the fact is, for a team who wants to have a constant supply of boons, turrets would be the way to go. And the most important ones come with advantages.

Flame turret; Low cooldown even if you blow it up
Thumper Turret; Long cooldown but doesn’t die as fast
Healing Turret; Low cooldown even when you blow it up.

You guys are thinking, “this is how I need to specc it to make it viable” and I’m thinking nah, “forget all that noise! I’ll place the turret down myself and put points where I feel it matters.”

To bad elementalists wont know these feels