Guild Wars 2

We all know it’s way too low already, given that jebro has given us the tooltip with marauders amulet.

There’s no need to wait till BWE3 for feedback, as it has to go up. It’s simply too low as it stands.

Edit: Hammer 1 has been increased! We dont know the values yet, but all is well, BWE3 HYPE BOIS

A lot of the skills I saw used critted for 500. That is way too low for anything.

ot gives you might, and it’s tanking weapon with AOE damage, so it’s fine.
You can always switch kits for aditional damage.

Or you want another 1 1 1 1 1 1 class like Dagger necro?

Rizo.9534:

ot gives you might, and it’s tanking weapon with AOE damage, so it’s fine.
You can always switch kits for aditional damage.

Or you want another 1 1 1 1 1 1 class like Dagger necro?

I’d rather be able to use something other than grenade 1 in almost all circumstances

but hey man at least we got our mortar #1 nerfed by 28% ayyyyyyy lmao

Also I love how this has become the excuse for Elementalists and Engineers now

“So what if your new utilities suck major donger, are boring, and have almost no use in either PvE or PvP? Just use your other abilities! Isn’t that why you BOUGHT this expansion pack? For more of the same? Lol grow up!”

Engener can get access to ALL Combo fields(excepr darkness) and ALL Combo finishers in game in 1 build.
Can keep blocks up to 60% of fight time, so it’s nothing special, that they nerfed 1 skill

There are classes, that in much worst state than Engineers
I’m really excited with Scrapp… will be really powerful in arenas.

Ricky Rouse.1583:

“So what if your new utilities suck major donger, are boring, and have almost no use in either PvE or PvP? Just use your other abilities! Isn’t that why you BOUGHT this expansion pack? For more of the same? Lol grow up!”

You think, that if you buy XPac you’ll automatically dominate pvp with new spec?

Who have to growUP man?

keep in mind that groundtargeting will get a new option which lets it work like normal targeting… i think this will make grenade builds more interesting again as well…

i was hoping for a bomb revival but well…

for nearly all new specs damage was rather to low intitially – i think this is a simple design philosophy, to rather start a bit too low and then increase it rather then vice verca – because the other way around causes a huge kitten storm all the time….

Ricky Rouse.1583:

Rizo.9534:

ot gives you might, and it’s tanking weapon with AOE damage, so it’s fine.
You can always switch kits for aditional damage.

Or you want another 1 1 1 1 1 1 class like Dagger necro?

I’d rather be able to use something other than grenade 1 in almost all circumstances

This. I would like the option to go kitless and/or have a decent auto attack, something to do in between cds and combos. The current hammer 1’s dmg, is yawn-inspiring.

Rizo.9534:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

“So what if your new utilities suck major donger, are boring, and have almost no use in either PvE or PvP? Just use your other abilities! Isn’t that why you BOUGHT this expansion pack? For more of the same? Lol grow up!”

You think, that if you buy XPac you’ll automatically dominate pvp with new spec?

Who have to growUP man?

I think his point is that he wants options. Not to dominate.

Irenio had Rabid amulet during the POI. Crits for 500 mean nothing.

Jebro was getting <2k, 2k+, 3k+ on the auto attack chain if I remember right with Marauder amulet. That’s not bad.

Rough early calculations show Hammer auto to be about 20% behind grenades. This seems like a big gap to me compared to the damage I saw, but grenades do attack pretty fast. Even if this is not true, however far behind the hammer is from grenades I feel like it should be buffed that much at least when you include the trait for it. This way if you spec completely into hammer you have a viable option besides grenades for the first time in 3 years (okay there was bomb autos for awhile).

I’m not saying the hammer needs top damage, I know it’s a defensive weapon and it looks great for that. I just think if you spec into it and use the GM trait to give 10% more damage, that should at least tie it with grenades. Please!

It is a defensive/utility weapon, why do you think it should do the highest dps?

portedGoblin.7413:

It is a defensive/utility weapon, why do you think it should do the highest dps?

I don’t see anyone calling for highest DPS. I see people saying they don’t want to be forced back into grenade kit if they spec into Scrapper but still want to do damage. I think it’s fair that if you take the +10% hammer damage trait that it is at least equal to grenade auto spam.

I think many Engineers are also tired of our weapons being utilities. I only speak for myself, but I would like a weapon that stands on its own and where you’re not losing out on auto attack damage by not running a kit. Surely Scrappers will still use a kit or two for the utility, but I would like to just use a kit for that purpose: utility. Not my main weapon.

circuitnerd.5863:

A lot of the skills I saw used critted for 500. That is way too low for anything.

There’s got to be some downside attached.

Adamantium.3682:

portedGoblin.7413:

It is a defensive/utility weapon, why do you think it should do the highest dps?

I don’t see anyone calling for highest DPS. I see people saying they don’t want to be forced back into grenade kit if they spec into Scrapper but still want to do damage. I think it’s fair that if you take the +10% hammer damage trait that it is at least equal to grenade auto spam.

I think many Engineers are also tired of our weapons being utilities. I only speak for myself, but I would like a weapon that stands on its own and where you’re not losing out on auto attack damage by not running a kit. Surely Scrappers will still use a kit or two for the utility, but I would like to just use a kit for that purpose: utility. Not my main weapon.

Kits are a big part of the Engineer profession. Have you tried Revenant? It’s really fun.

portedGoblin.7413:

Adamantium.3682:

portedGoblin.7413:

It is a defensive/utility weapon, why do you think it should do the highest dps?

I don’t see anyone calling for highest DPS. I see people saying they don’t want to be forced back into grenade kit if they spec into Scrapper but still want to do damage. I think it’s fair that if you take the +10% hammer damage trait that it is at least equal to grenade auto spam.

I think many Engineers are also tired of our weapons being utilities. I only speak for myself, but I would like a weapon that stands on its own and where you’re not losing out on auto attack damage by not running a kit. Surely Scrappers will still use a kit or two for the utility, but I would like to just use a kit for that purpose: utility. Not my main weapon.

Kits are a big part of the Engineer profession. Have you tried Revenant? It’s really fun.

Turrets are also a big part of the Engineers profession.

Which is why they got gutted, and are now being shoddily re-balanced as “utility gyros”!

Also, kit’s are a HUGE part of the Engineers profession! As long as its grenade kit, bomb kit, or tool kit.

It has to do more than ’nades auto anything else is ridiculous.

portedGoblin.7413:

Adamantium.3682:

portedGoblin.7413:

It is a defensive/utility weapon, why do you think it should do the highest dps?

I don’t see anyone calling for highest DPS. I see people saying they don’t want to be forced back into grenade kit if they spec into Scrapper but still want to do damage. I think it’s fair that if you take the +10% hammer damage trait that it is at least equal to grenade auto spam.

I think many Engineers are also tired of our weapons being utilities. I only speak for myself, but I would like a weapon that stands on its own and where you’re not losing out on auto attack damage by not running a kit. Surely Scrappers will still use a kit or two for the utility, but I would like to just use a kit for that purpose: utility. Not my main weapon.

Kits are a big part of the Engineer profession. Have you tried Revenant? It’s really fun.

You have to love the mentality of people that come with this response anytime you point out something you want addressed. No, you can’t expect any issue with a class to be addressed…you simply have to re-roll apparently…at least if you listen to people like this. You should definitely let some other player tell you what to do, instead of use the forums for what they are for…even in this beta period, just re-roll. You should just accept the arbitrary categorization, by this same player, of the new elite specialization weapon as “defensive/utility” …as an excuse as to why the auto is undertuned…don’t bother voicing your concerns…just re-roll.

just make AA count as explosions

ODB.6891:

portedGoblin.7413:

Adamantium.3682:

portedGoblin.7413:

It is a defensive/utility weapon, why do you think it should do the highest dps?

I don’t see anyone calling for highest DPS. I see people saying they don’t want to be forced back into grenade kit if they spec into Scrapper but still want to do damage. I think it’s fair that if you take the +10% hammer damage trait that it is at least equal to grenade auto spam.

I think many Engineers are also tired of our weapons being utilities. I only speak for myself, but I would like a weapon that stands on its own and where you’re not losing out on auto attack damage by not running a kit. Surely Scrappers will still use a kit or two for the utility, but I would like to just use a kit for that purpose: utility. Not my main weapon.

Kits are a big part of the Engineer profession. Have you tried Revenant? It’s really fun.

You have to love the mentality of people that come with this response anytime you point out something you want addressed. No, you can’t expect any issue with a class to be addressed…you simply have to re-roll apparently…at least if you listen to people like this. You should definitely let some other player tell you what to do, instead of use the forums for what they are for…even in this beta period, just re-roll. You should just accept the arbitrary categorization, by this same player, of the new elite specialization weapon as “defensive/utility” …as an excuse as to why the auto is undertuned…don’t bother voicing your concerns…just re-roll.

What issue? That the Grenades, a weapon with no utility does more damage then the Hammer, that has many utility skills?

Btw, you should try the Berserker, you know, rage and all that.

Adamantium.3682:

portedGoblin.7413:

It is a defensive/utility weapon, why do you think it should do the highest dps?

I don’t see anyone calling for highest DPS. I see people saying they don’t want to be forced back into grenade kit if they spec into Scrapper but still want to do damage. I think it’s fair that if you take the +10% hammer damage trait that it is at least equal to grenade auto spam.

This is like the rangers who ask for GS to do as much dps as 1h-sword, because they dont want to be “forced” into 1h-sword for damage. No. Hammer is a super tanky (2 short cd blocks), mobile utility weapon. It shouldnt be doing competitive damage. While its possible that a damage buff is in order, it should absolutely be among the lowest (per single target) dps options for the engie.

the hammer 1 damage being low is acceptable as long the hammer skills keep short cooldowns like shown on the stream, it gives it aggressive playstyle by being able to defend while attacking

I do have my concerns about Hammer #1 being ‘too weak’ as is seen in the PoI and Jebro’s Marauder build. The concern is that being a melee brawling medium armor class that is known to be shutdown by CC and condition spam it is extremely important that the class has the right tools to be effective in this new role.

In my opinion it is important to recognize that Engineers do not have access to a weapon swapping ability. With this in mind we should understand that when Engineers complain about a melee ability not being able to deliver enough damage on their only hand weapon (I will refer to the main hand weapon as that from here on since that is what it essentially is) that it should be treated seriously.

The results of not being able to trade effectively in melee will be the need to take utilities such as grenade kit and bomb kit to be effective. It is my opinion that a melee medium armor class should not be limited to having to take these utilities to be effective since all Engineers know that untraited Grenade Kits are not nearly as good and Bomb Kit, well I like Bomb Kit to be honest so hey #BombKitBias.

But as you can see just by being forced to take Grenade Kit you now have to go down the explosives tree and as a result your build has been prematurely limited. If you don’t trait for Grenade Kit and take it then you are simply gimping yourself in both your only hand weapon and a utility to try to compensate for a lack of consistent DPS. It is important to understand that you inability to pressure or trade well in melee with this weapon means you will have to avoid melee whilst your big damage skills are on cool-down or be dominated… whilst you are using a melee weapon!

This issue would not be an issue if we had access to weapon swap but that’s not what we are asking for. You should never make an only hand weapon under the assumption that you have enough utility to make a human player kill itself fighting you, people are smart, people will disengage, reset or kite until the situation is more to their favor.

To resolve this issue I think several steps can be taken. Increase Hammer’s auto attack rate from 1/2s to 1/4s for the first two and 1/2 on the final attack. You are a Medium Armor class, potentially fighting in Melee with Heavy Armor classes that wield the same hammer and as a result you have to have some measure of trading potential. You will simply be beaten into submission if you have to trade at the same range. You are wearing less armor and your nights and days are spent swinging that thing around for a living. Make Scrapper’s auto attack look ruthless and different from all the classes, blur the back of the hammer or refract (as though part of it was under-water) the weapon as you swing it and have on hit effects like scraps of armor being chunked off with each hit in order to give the impression that you aren’t swinging around a piece of paper. Exaggerate the character movements but don’t put too much grunting, no one wants to feel like they are watching a Tennis match or a porn flick.

The other option is to make Hammer auto scale more effectively than other Hammer weapons with might and specifically with might stacks. To me this is the less interesting effect but they would allow you more freedom to go with an Elixir, all Gyro, etc build because you know that with your only hand weapon that when push comes to shove you can duke it out with the best of them.

In my opinion as well the 10% extra DMG on Hammer from the GM trait could be changed to something more interesting like skills that you reflect do +10% more dmg, your next attack after an evade does +10% damage and stunned / dazed opponents take +10% dmg. This allows you to baseline roll that +10% dmg back to the weapon itself and reward players for playing well instead of reading a guide and picking the right traits.

Hammer third chain should be a blast finisher.

I’m not sure yet, I want to see the hammer in action more. I wouldn’t want to see it too strong, it’s strength is in utility not DPS. Saying that though, it would be nice to be less dependent on kits. The lure of an all in one weapon is pretty strong.

Hammer already looks like a suped-up ranger GS, and Ranger GS is nothing to be sneezed at. Though it’s true that the AA could use a little buffing.

engis hammer is so rediculous over powered and tied in an elite spec with even further rediculous traits. I think it will be hard to justify any improvement.

The AA is mocking any exisiting weapon. Compare what it does to Guardian GS. or empowering might. A master tier trait.

three targets and rune of strength and you be able to maintian 25 stacks yourself simply by slotting this weapon. 750power. and you want more damage on the AA.
on a weapon that has a tripple leap finisher, eades for three seconds and can heal for 3.5k in water field on a frigging 10 second CD that can grant stability for 3 secs

This gotta be a joke.

Its a defensive weapons isnt it? Lots of CC and blocks

Im going to have to agree with the whole it doesn’t do damage because its doing other things camp. Hammer 1 auto attack applies mite/vuln/mite. which is setting you up to maybe drop bombs aa while your so close (this one is very high damage) which of course also drops many different fields for you to hammer 3 into.

And i am sorry to those of you who want to be a kit less engineer. Its like wanting to be a petless ranger.Possible? maybe. Just not going to work. We dont have weapon swap because we have kits that give us a entire knew 1-5 plus tool belt.

Going down the explosives tree post scrapper will no longer be for grenades its will be bombs finally (or maybe even 5% damage on vuln targets). Between the shredder bot and all the leeps in hammer 3 you will want the luxury of all those fields to blast

And call me crazy but I am beginning to see the purpose of the middle skills in the invention line. Tho i think the ICD has to come off of Medical dispersion field to see real magic happen.

Major Master Soothing Detonation.png Soothing Detonation When you trigger a combo using a blast finisher, allies near the effect are healed.
Major Grandmaster Medical Dispersion Field.png Medical Dispersion Field 5 A percentage of healing you receive is shared with your allies

anyone else seeing this?

Rocknull.2986:

Im going to have to agree with the whole it doesn’t do damage because its doing other things camp. Hammer 1 auto attack applies mite/vuln/mite. which is setting you up to maybe drop bombs aa while your so close (this one is very high damage) which of course also drops many different fields for you to hammer 3 into.

And i am sorry to those of you who want to be a kit less engineer. Its like wanting to be a petless ranger.Possible? maybe. Just not going to work. We dont have weapon swap because we have kits that give us a entire knew 1-5 plus tool belt.

Going down the explosives tree post scrapper will no longer be for grenades its will be bombs finally (or maybe even 5% damage on vuln targets). Between the shredder bot and all the leeps in hammer 3 you will want the luxury of all those fields to blast

And call me crazy but I am beginning to see the purpose of the middle skills in the invention line. Tho i think the ICD has to come off of Medical dispersion field to see real magic happen.

Major Master Soothing Detonation.png Soothing Detonation When you trigger a combo using a blast finisher, allies near the effect are healed.
Major Grandmaster Medical Dispersion Field.png Medical Dispersion Field 5 A percentage of healing you receive is shared with your allies

anyone else seeing this?

We saw that back when it was still on a PowerPoint presentation without any numbers. But once MDF was shown to have kitten ICD, it became nonsense.

Scrapper can be good with Firearm tree as well since firearm increase crit rate for being close range in combat.

wolfyrik.2017:

I’m not sure yet, I want to see the hammer in action more. I wouldn’t want to see it too strong, it’s strength is in utility not DPS. Saying that though, it would be nice to be less dependent on kits. The lure of an all in one weapon is pretty strong.

Hammer already looks like a suped-up ranger GS, and Ranger GS is nothing to be sneezed at. Though it’s true that the AA could use a little buffing.

2 short might and 2 vuln to 3 targets over 2~3 secs is nothing in terms of utility… i can use about 15 choose 2 other 2 skill combos for more powerful effects, and i can take so many of those at once that i will never need to resort to “only” getting the utility of weaker pressure + 2 short might + 2 vuln over 2~3 secs.

not to mention 3 targets is crap when everything else except ft 1 is 5.

give it something interesting engi doesnt already have. make the 3rd hit give quickness, fury, an int sigil stack, a blast, a leap, a field, aegis, prot, stab, or add confusion stacks or whatever. we have might and vuln already, and we have them better.

wolfyrik.2017:

Hammer already looks like a suped-up ranger GS, and Ranger GS is nothing to be sneezed at. Though it’s true that the AA could use a little buffing.

ranger gs auto sucks just sayin lol. the evade is essentially rng cuz there is no way for you to predict an opponent 2 attacks in advance to skillfully evade. for that reason, aegis, prot, and stab for 3rd hit would prolly be similarly bad. an offensive boon allows the engi to set up a better next attack instead of unreliably and badly predicting an opponent (but we already have might in like a million better ways). thats more of an engi playstyle, taking the auto to its completion and then using something else (as in not autoing if literally any other skill is off cd, or chaining different skills together for maximum effect in a way you think is best for the situation).

wait wait.. shredder bot on water field. did we just get a version ele water 5 heal bomb?

Rocknull.2986:

wait wait.. shredder bot on water field. did we just get a version ele water 5 heal bomb?

whirling in water gives regen, short, which isnt that great.

whirling in eth, fire, light, dark, smoke, or even poison is wayyyy better :P

Its autoattack seems slightly stronger than the warrior’s hammer autoattack, which isn’t a bad spot to be in, given its other skills offer more utility and damage than the warrior’s.

The auto is in a better place than the DPS weapons of some current professions. Not matching Grenades is not a good enough reason to bumb up the dps quite yet.

I think we can wait till BW3 before we decide whether or not the a small bump is needed.

Yes in the end I think it is wise to wait and see if it really does under perform or not. There are a lot of ways to fix it if it does. You shouldn’t be spending all of your time auto-attacking anyways to be honest.

lorddarkflare.9186:

The auto is in a better place than the DPS weapons of some current professions. Not matching Grenades is not a good enough reason to bumb up the dps quite yet.

I think we can wait till BW3 before we decide whether or not the a small bump is needed.

Well in the end I don’t think Anet will ever make a weapon strong or stronger than the Grenade Kit for Engi.

Might as well just learn to accept that Grenade Kit will always be the dominate weapon of Engi unless a future Elite Specialization proves to be stronger than Grenade kit.

Hammer damage is ok, its about the same as guardians gs except for the last hit of the chain which guardians strikes harder but we get to stack twice as much might and 2 vul per rotatin. We also get much better utility and flow out of the weapon, so i would say we are ok.

Apolo.5942:

Hammer damage is ok, its about the same as guardians gs except for the last hit of the chain which guardians strikes harder but we get to stack twice as much might and 2 vul per rotatin. We also get much better utility and flow out of the weapon, so i would say we are ok.

I think the Hammer skill strikes harder because Scrapper’s 3rd Auto attack has…

Base Damage: 467
Might (8s): +30 Power, +30 Condition Damage
Vulnerability (12s): 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming Condition Damage
Number of Targets: 3
Range: 130
Second to Cast: 1/2 second

but Guardian 3rd auto skill does…

Damage Damage: 443 (1.200)?
Might (5s): +30 Power, +30 Condition Damage
Number of Targets: 3
Range: 130
Second to cast: 1/2 second

and this is just the base damage without any power stats on the gear.

On that note:

I think the auto attack comparison should focus more on other Auto attacks from other weapons and the professions they are from. By now we may never have anything surpass Grenade Kit auto attack but compared to the other Auto-attack (excluding Grenade Kit) there are noticable things.

Might not be so simple, Hammer gets bonus power from armor and extra 10% crit chance, so i dont know if the calculation is that simple, at leaast for melee range.

In fact if you add in +200 power from armor, nades do marginal extra damage and that is with out factoring the added might stacking or the extra 10% crit and assuming all 3 nades land.

So… as you say, they just have to nerf Nades, and all will goes to balance.
As you say, nades are too strong, new hammer have to be stronger, to be valuable.

Am i right?

No let the damage as it is and nerf #1 Cleave of all weapons so it is not just #1 spam in XX vs XX

Rizo.9534:

So… as you say, they just have to nerf Nades, and all will goes to balance.
As you say, nades are too strong, new hammer have to be stronger, to be valuable.

Am i right?

That is basically the only way I can see nades no longer being the best weapon in Engi’s kitten nal. Before Grenades was given the 3 nades the basic form of Grenade kit was only throw 2 nades and to make the skill stronger you needed a trait to give it 3 nades.

2 nades was designed to be strong or near as the basic auto of other auto attack weapons and 3 nades was the trait version to make it stronger for better DPS.

The 3 nades for Grenades has essentially made Grenade Kit Auto attack equal to 1.5 auto attack.

Rizo.9534:

ot gives you might, and it’s tanking weapon with AOE damage, so it’s fine.
You can always switch kits for aditional damage.

Or you want another 1 1 1 1 1 1 class like Dagger necro?

Responding here from a PvE perspective:

The might and vuln doesn’t really matter for any serious PvE group since the entire group will likely be capped on this anyways. It’s really just a nice boost for pug and solo content.

Agreed that we don’t want an autoattack spam class. However, both meta builds for engi consist of the most complex skill rotation in the game, by far. It would be nice to see a more tame rotation that at least doesn’t lock down all our utility skills. This would allow us to be flexible with our utilities to match the content at hand without killing our DPS. Guardians and mesmers are a good example of a class that can be versatile with utilities without losing DPS.

I love the high skill cap of PvE engi, but the nature of all the kit swapping can be prohibiting in a lot of realistic encounters.

EdwinLi.1284:

Rizo.9534:

So… as you say, they just have to nerf Nades, and all will goes to balance.
As you say, nades are too strong, new hammer have to be stronger, to be valuable.

Am i right?

That is basically the only way I can see nades no longer being the best weapon in Engi’s kitten nal. Before Grenades was given the 3 nades the basic form of Grenade kit was only throw 2 nades and to make the skill stronger you needed a trait to give it 3 nades.

2 nades was designed to be strong or near as the basic auto of other auto attack weapons and 3 nades was the trait version to make it stronger for better DPS.

The 3 nades for Grenades has essentially made Grenade Kit Auto attack equal to 1.5 auto attack.

bomb 1 does ~33% more flat power dps with ~.2 less aftercast for a total of about 1.5x the dps of grenade 1. and its an explosion. and it hits 5 targets.

hammer 1 will do about 50% of the dps of bomb 1 to only 3 targets, with 33% less vuln generation in exchange for minimal might generation (which we already have lots of in better ways). thats unusable for a melee attack.

Dahkeus.8243:

Rizo.9534:

ot gives you might, and it’s tanking weapon with AOE damage, so it’s fine.
You can always switch kits for aditional damage.

Or you want another 1 1 1 1 1 1 class like Dagger necro?

Responding here from a PvE perspective:

The might and vuln doesn’t really matter for any serious PvE group since the entire group will likely be capped on this anyways. It’s really just a nice boost for pug and solo content.

Agreed that we don’t want an autoattack spam class. However, both meta builds for engi consist of the most complex skill rotation in the game, by far. It would be nice to see a more tame rotation that at least doesn’t lock down all our utility skills. This would allow us to be flexible with our utilities to match the content at hand without killing our DPS. Guardians and mesmers are a good example of a class that can be versatile with utilities without losing DPS.

I love the high skill cap of PvE engi, but the nature of all the kit swapping can be prohibiting in a lot of realistic encounters.

Unless kits are nerfed, our rotations will always be crazy.

The best you can hope for is maybe one less kit to switch to.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Dahkeus.8243:

Rizo.9534:

ot gives you might, and it’s tanking weapon with AOE damage, so it’s fine.
You can always switch kits for aditional damage.

Or you want another 1 1 1 1 1 1 class like Dagger necro?

Responding here from a PvE perspective:

The might and vuln doesn’t really matter for any serious PvE group since the entire group will likely be capped on this anyways. It’s really just a nice boost for pug and solo content.

Agreed that we don’t want an autoattack spam class. However, both meta builds for engi consist of the most complex skill rotation in the game, by far. It would be nice to see a more tame rotation that at least doesn’t lock down all our utility skills. This would allow us to be flexible with our utilities to match the content at hand without killing our DPS. Guardians and mesmers are a good example of a class that can be versatile with utilities without losing DPS.

I love the high skill cap of PvE engi, but the nature of all the kit swapping can be prohibiting in a lot of realistic encounters.

Unless kits are nerfed, our rotations will always be crazy.

The best you can hope for is maybe one less kit to switch to.

That’s all I’d really want to see, honestly. I like that kit swapping is part of min/maxing dps. I just don’t like that kits take up all 3 slots. If we only needed 2 instead of 3 kits from our utility spots, I’d be happy with that, as long as that last spot wasn’t just replaced by another utility skill that was used for normal DPS.

insanemaniac.2456:

bomb 1 does ~33% more flat power dps with ~.2 less aftercast for a total of about 1.5x the dps of grenade 1. and its an explosion. and it hits 5 targets.

hammer 1 will do about 50% of the dps of bomb 1 to only 3 targets, with 33% less vuln generation in exchange for minimal might generation (which we already have lots of in better ways). thats unusable for a melee attack.

Is that with or without Power in the gear because the PoI video was using a build that had 0 Power in the gear set for Scrapper

Bomb currently does (without power)….
Damage: 444 (1.250)?
Number of Targets: 5
Fuse Time: 1s
Radius: 240

While current info we have for Scrapper’s Auto Attack has (without Power)….

Positive Strike(1st hit)
Damage: 364
Might (8s): +30 Power, +30 Condition Damage
Number of Targets: 3
Range.png Range: 130

Negative Bash(2nd hit)

Damage: 364
Vulnerability (12s): 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming Condition Damage
Number of Targets: 3
Range: 130

Equalizing Blow (3rd hit)
Damage: 467
Might (8s): +30 Power, +30 Condition Damage
Vulnerability (12s): 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming Condition Damage
Number of Targets: 3
Range: 130

EdwinLi.1284:

insanemaniac.2456:

bomb 1 does ~33% more flat power dps with ~.2 less aftercast for a total of about 1.5x the dps of grenade 1. and its an explosion. and it hits 5 targets.

hammer 1 will do about 50% of the dps of bomb 1 to only 3 targets, with 33% less vuln generation in exchange for minimal might generation (which we already have lots of in better ways). thats unusable for a melee attack.

Is that with or without Power in the gear because the PoI video was using a build that had 0 Power in the gear set for Scrapper

with

there is another thread evaluating hammer dps for pve, and ocirne concluded hammer 1 is around 20% less dps than a grenade auto.

its close to hip shot on a single target at those levels and doesnt even have 1200 range (and homing, and 5 targets) to make up for being that weak.

Well opinions are opinions and I have already seen the thread but it just based on a assumption rather than actual ingame experience.

Until we test the data in the actual game we will not get the actual data. Only assumption of what we may expect.

By now we all have to accept that nothing Anet release will ever surpass Grenade Kit auto attack by damage. If they ever release something that does more damage than Grenade’s auto attack people will just complain it is too OP and demand a nerf thus making Grenade Kit the strongest again.

What should be compared is other Auto Attacks from other Weapons and Professions.

That is where most people seem to ignore and focus too much on Kits Auto Attack.

EdwinLi.1284:

Well opinions are opinions and I have already seen the thread but it just based on a assumption rather than actual ingame experience.

LOL

based on the stat screen = based on an assumption??

this is not an opinion, this is an objective fact.

an opinion is when i say that because of the fact that hammer auto is weaker than the 900 range, higher dps, higher proc rate grenade 1 it should be buffed to compensate for the extra risk that is being taken by being in melee.