Guild Wars 2

Like the topic says what changes can be expecred for the scrapper? Launch draws near and no word. Just curious what type of changes? What are your thoughts on the scrapper mechanic? I am sure i am not the only one wanting some communication on this.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Post-BWE3-Scrapper-Changes/page/2#post5610519

I honestly like the scrapper mechanic, though I’m also a huge fan of turrets so I’m a little biased.

Sounds good, but the 23!? I can’t wait that long!!

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Rocket Charge will have the leap play at start rather than finish (like other leaps) and isn’t going to be so erratic once you’ve closed to your target.

are you making it act more like … warrior gs5? where it will run up to a target and not through? on each leap?

thats cool, but i did really like how erratic it was

Is the added survivability on Gyros by method of mechanic or numbers? Also, how snappy are the gyros. If I run forward for swiftness, will stealth gyro manage to follow or do I have to toggle walk again?

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

There are two components I can mention right now, the rest you’ll have to wait until the 23rd to see:

Gyros should be a good bit more snappy when it comes to staying near you and are also going to experience some additional survivability.

Rocket Charge will have the leap play at start rather than finish (like other leaps) and isn’t going to be so erratic once you’ve closed to your target.

I do not expect a response to this, but why would itemizing the current work being done on the class need to wait for next week?

Is this a factor of the encroaching release and lack of time/resources to address the community like has been done after BW2 and BWE2? Or is there another reason?

Regardless of what it is, I want to point out that being mysterious about the whole thing sort of allows the community to build up the unreasonable expectations they are prone to.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

There are two components I can mention right now, the rest you’ll have to wait until the 23rd to see:

Gyros should be a good bit more snappy when it comes to staying near you and are also going to experience some additional survivability.

Rocket Charge will have the leap play at start rather than finish (like other leaps) and isn’t going to be so erratic once you’ve closed to your target.

Dude…seriously?
We have to wait to receive any information on our class tweaks? This is a blatent slap in the face and should not be acceptable.

What made beta weekends cool, was for the first time Devs really seemed to listen and communicate with it’s customers.

So, not only did you give us something that literally 90% of us said we didn’t want (AI minions) but now you won’t even talk to us?

Well done man.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

There are two components I can mention right now, the rest you’ll have to wait until the 23rd to see:

Gyros should be a good bit more snappy when it comes to staying near you and are also going to experience some additional survivability.

Rocket Charge will have the leap play at start rather than finish (like other leaps) and isn’t going to be so erratic once you’ve closed to your target.

Compared to the treatment all other elite specs, save druid, received this is a joke. “Wait until the 23rd”? Not only did we only get one beta weekend, we also get virtually no dev interaction.

Calling it now:
1. Gyros, even with more survivability, will still be as useless as turrets and kits or elixirs will stay the better alternatives.
2. Traits that should be baseline (Stabilization Core, Final Salvo) will remain in the Adept and Grandmaster (I still lol about this one) tier.
3. Our new class mechanic will not ever change or improve.
4. “Fuel” will remain a fancy way of saying “gyros have a limited life span”.
5. Superspeed won’t stack.

Another thing; " [g]yros should be a good bit more snappy" and “isn’t going to be so erratic”. Could these statements be any more vague? They read like “Yeah, still crap, but not as horrible as before. But still crap.”

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

There are two components I can mention right now, the rest you’ll have to wait until the 23rd to see:

Gyros should be a good bit more snappy when it comes to staying near you and are also going to experience some additional survivability.

Rocket Charge will have the leap play at start rather than finish (like other leaps) and isn’t going to be so erratic once you’ve closed to your target.

Thank you for the feedback, waiting to see the changes!

Thank you for the update Irenio! I’m glad the gyros is getting improved, now we can possibly use them. ^^

shrug

rocket charge changes sound hopefully good. i would say sorry for the words of the other people in this thread, but it’s not like there weren’t multiple threads requesting to not get another set of useless AI. i mean, yeah they are being mean but the gyro design is really poor & it is exactly what we asked not to have. you should have expected this response if you had had any contact with the engineer community while developing scrapper.

All this secrecy at 10 days from the launch doesn’t bode well at all, frankly speaking.
We already had only a single beta to test the spec, and it isn’t like it hadn’t got some blatant issues (some of which were already evident since the point of interest – see gyro survivability, even if just math-wise at that point).
I have to hope this isn’t just a way to ignore the issues and gloss over them. Like it was done with turrets.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Rocket Charge will have the leap play at start rather than finish (like other leaps) and isn’t going to be so erratic once you’ve closed to your target.

Is there any chance of changing rocket charge to a multi-activation skill to give players “Full Control” or are we still going with the 1 activation for all parts ?

Chaith should be on the dev team tbh

wish we could do some Bastille kitten right here

This is not an answer its an avoid tactic. WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT FUNCION GYRO CLASS MECHANIC?! We said since revealed this IS NOT a class mechanic we have tried to talk about it you ignore it and sweep it under the rug. Now so close to launch and you still refuse to talk scrapper is just scrapp and just gets scrapps it seems. I can understand druid waiting to see number changes but scrapper needs more then numbers!

choovanski.5462:

Chaith should be on the dev team tbh

This. Or, at least, they should start listening to top players. But this has nothing to do with the fact that we had a lot less less time than other classes had to provide feedback and on top of that, we don’t even get to know what has changed from beta, thus even more lowering the value of our feedback.

As a software developer myself I have to say: Thanks for the update!

Guys: Things are still in flux right now. Regardless of what Irenio might or might not tell us he would be BOUND to disappoint as he can’t be sure that anything he says is going to stay that way until the patch ships on the 23rd.

Better to focus on getting things straight than wasting time giving info on a status quo that is not set in stone and needing to justify for that.

I don’t want to be salty but it looks like this is what we feared, it really sounds like our 11 pages of feedback led to 2-3 bugfixs for obvious bugs. But I will keep my rant for the 23, I still have hope I’m mistaken.

So by less erratic, does that mean it won’t be constantly dropping me off all those ledges on the newer PvE maps?

Jeez everyone. Calm down. I’m anxious for more scrapper changes too (I mean, the other classes besides druid got week and weeks of iterations), but give the dude a break.

Look, he’s not going to say something like “I’m working on this new class mechanic” even if he was. He wouldn’t even say “We’re looking into adding some changes to the function gyro” even if he was. The fact that he’s not saying anything more extensive then “we’re working on fixing the broken stuff” is that they don’t want to get anyone’s hopes up about major mechanics changes.

My point is, no other specialization designer has spoke to mechanical/balance changes that were tentative.

If they had already decided they weren’t going to do ANYTHING, they would probably say so.

BeardRex.6739:

Jeez everyone. Calm down. I’m anxious for more scrapper changes too (I mean, the other classes besides druid got week and weeks of iterations), but give the dude a break.

Look, he’s not going to say something like “I’m working on this new class mechanic” even if he was. He wouldn’t even say “We’re looking into adding some changes to the function gyro” even if he was. The fact that he’s not saying anything more extensive then “we’re working on fixing the broken stuff” is that they don’t want to get anyone’s hopes up about major mechanics changes.

My point is, no other specialization designer has spoke to mechanical/balance changes that were tentative.

If they had already decided they weren’t going to do ANYTHING, they would probably say so.

It’s a possibility, but it’s more difficult to find any reason they don’t say anything about skills/traits changes.

Spleen.7836:

It’s a possibility, but it’s more difficult to find any reason they don’t say anything about skills/traits changes.

As a software developer myself, no it’s not. You don’t tell clients/customers you can do things you’re not sure you can do.

Anet has always tried really hard to operate that way as well.

BeardRex.6739:

Spleen.7836:

It’s a possibility, but it’s more difficult to find any reason they don’t say anything about skills/traits changes.

As a software developer myself, no it’s not. You don’t tell clients/customers you can do things you’re not sure you can do.

Anet has always tried really hard to operate that way as well.

I don’t want to minimize the work or the difficulties of the task. But as one of the last specialization to be tested, and the fact that engineers said they didn’t want more AI, still got them with every bugs they were afraid to see, and a mechanic that was clearly lackluster, you have to understand that it’s normal for engineers (well, for me, I can’t speak for everyone of course) to be a bit anxious about it.

Especially when you see that this kind of clarity and changes is possible for other specs:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Daredevil-updates-post-BWE-3-launch

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Dragonhunter-updates-post-BWE3-launch/page/4#post5604703

Again, I don’t blame anyone and I don’t say they will not work on it, but considering the circumstances, it’s normal to be afraid. if they can’t even change anything about traits/skills for the scrapper, something is not right.

Spleen.7836:

BeardRex.6739:

Spleen.7836:

It’s a possibility, but it’s more difficult to find any reason they don’t say anything about skills/traits changes.

As a software developer myself, no it’s not. You don’t tell clients/customers you can do things you’re not sure you can do.

Anet has always tried really hard to operate that way as well.

I don’t want to minimize the work or the difficulties of the task. But as one of the last specialization to be tested, and the fact that engineers said they didn’t want more AI, still got them with every bugs they were afraid to see, and a mechanic that was clearly lackluster, you have to understand that it’s normal for engineers (well, for me, I can’t speak for everyone of course) to be a bit anxious about it.

Especially when you see that this kind of clarity and changes is possible for other specs:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Daredevil-updates-post-BWE-3-launch

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Dragonhunter-updates-post-BWE3-launch/page/4#post5604703

Again, I don’t blame anyone and I don’t say they will not work on it, but considering the circumstances, it’s normal to be afraid. if they can’t even change anything about traits/skills for the scrapper, something is not right.

Well, would you prefer updates that very well may change now or updates that are polished, finalized and what you will be using on the 23? I prefer the latter because I at least know its finished. I’d rather Irenio and his team get the Scrapper changes finalized before launch instead of updating us on a fluctuating status.

And look toward the bright side, Irenio might make a post on what couldn’t get fixed before launch so we won’t be aggravated when we see them.

Frankly I do not expect much. The entire community pleaded that it should not put anything with AI, this is totally flawed that you never hit this sort of thing, and even then was placed.
You will now see a patch that due to our 3 years of bad AI experience with Anet, we know it will remain useless.
Now let the community that had only one BW to test a specialization has begun wrong unanswered until the release is the same as you ask for we buy a car without knowing how it will work or even that will work.
I remember that we are gamers but also customers of yours and the act of feedback we run and terms to test the injury unless the other is characterized as a disregard for their customers.

Sorry for my bad english

Ah Irenio, I expected much better from you.

We will see the changes according to our feedback on 23rd? That’s it? Come on man, you can do better. All other classes had big lists of changes and tweaks. We can’t even provide feedback because Scrapper and Druid have to wait until 23rd. Why?

I guess I was naive, when I expected more than “bit more snappy gyros”. Scrapper still has an elite mechanic that’s almost useless in PVE. IMHO I wouldn’t even call one gimmicky skill the elite mechanic. Why even give the engi a new name when his playstyle is changed only with a weapon. It is a hammer engi, no need to call him scrapper.

The only thing that remains is the hope that the next spec will actually change our playstyle. But wait, I won’t be able to use the hammer with it because it’s bound to the Scrapper spec. Now I have an almost useless already account bound Juggernaut legendary in my bank. Yay.

This is a salty post, I admit it. Oh well.

I’m glad to hear at least the slow gyro speed and spotty hit rate of hammer is getting looked into. I think it’s a bit foolish they gave any of the elite specs only 1 BWE given how much the other elite specs changed during the ones they had. Reaper was almost hated on it’s first BWE and was still getting some feedback on this last one. They should’ve at least all got 2. The thing I’m most wondering right now is why is it that the 2 specs that only got 1 BWE are both under the same dev? At the very least if you’re only going to give them 1 week make it so the same dev doesn’t have to work through the loads of issues and feedback that are destined to come in on their first run. I’m sure there are a lot of people working on the fixes but still.

Hoping the gyros will have some decent function to them after the fixes.

XDeathShadowX.2619:

The thing I’m most wondering right now is why is it that the 2 specs that only got 1 BWE are both under the same dev? At the very least if you’re only going to give them 1 week make it so the same dev doesn’t have to work through the loads of issues and feedback that are destined to come in on their first run. I’m sure there are a lot of people working on the fixes but still.

Yah, sticking Irenio with both of the “1 BWE only” elite specs is definitely a head-scratcher to me. Have a metric ton of feedback on both the elite specs you’re in charge of and get it all done in 3 weeks, good luck.

Much as it kills me to suggest it since they’ve all improved massively thanks to multiple BWE’s worth of feedback and testing, any of Tempest, Chronomancer, Reaper, or Dragonhunter should have been last with probably Scrapper being in the first batch. Just to spread the workload around a bit.

But then, I’m not a game developer and I certainly don’t know how the elite spec development and testing went, so my opinion doesn’t mean much.

Coolster.2536:

Spleen.7836:

BeardRex.6739:

Spleen.7836:

It’s a possibility, but it’s more difficult to find any reason they don’t say anything about skills/traits changes.

As a software developer myself, no it’s not. You don’t tell clients/customers you can do things you’re not sure you can do.

Anet has always tried really hard to operate that way as well.

I don’t want to minimize the work or the difficulties of the task. But as one of the last specialization to be tested, and the fact that engineers said they didn’t want more AI, still got them with every bugs they were afraid to see, and a mechanic that was clearly lackluster, you have to understand that it’s normal for engineers (well, for me, I can’t speak for everyone of course) to be a bit anxious about it.

Especially when you see that this kind of clarity and changes is possible for other specs:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Daredevil-updates-post-BWE-3-launch

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Dragonhunter-updates-post-BWE3-launch/page/4#post5604703

Again, I don’t blame anyone and I don’t say they will not work on it, but considering the circumstances, it’s normal to be afraid. if they can’t even change anything about traits/skills for the scrapper, something is not right.

Well, would you prefer updates that very well may change now or updates that are polished, finalized and what you will be using on the 23? I prefer the latter because I at least know its finished. I’d rather Irenio and his team get the Scrapper changes finalized before launch instead of updating us on a fluctuating status.

And look toward the bright side, Irenio might make a post on what couldn’t get fixed before launch so we won’t be aggravated when we see them.

I would have preferred something more polished now, and the direction they wanted to take considering our feedbacks. Even something like “We will change some traits/skills that were considered not enough useful”.

Again, I have nothing against Irenio and my posts are not directly addressed to him but to the company as a whole. I know that theses kinds of organizations are complicated.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Your constructive feedback has been really awesome so far and I trust will continue to be. I understand your concerns with not enough being communicated and I’m looking into getting more information out on some of the more solid changes we have.

That’s all I needed, thanks Irenio

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

There are two components I can mention right now, the rest you’ll have to wait until the 23rd to see:

Gyros should be a good bit more snappy when it comes to staying near you and are also going to experience some additional survivability.

Rocket Charge will have the leap play at start rather than finish (like other leaps) and isn’t going to be so erratic once you’ve closed to your target.

I look forward to testing the new Rocket Charge physics, sounds like a step in the right direction.

Can you give us a vague indication on the significance of changes still under wraps?

Since I’m not able to make any constructive feedback right now, I’m just going to sit here, fasten my security belt and wait for the crash.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Your constructive feedback has been really awesome so far and I trust will continue to be. I understand your concerns with not enough being communicated and I’m looking into getting more information out on some of the more solid changes we have.

Thanks Irenio, good luck with this amount of work in a such short time window
? ? ?_? ?? take my energy ? ? ?_? ??

Only 1 response before launch, thats great thats really great.

morrolan.9608:

Only 1 response before launch, thats great thats really great.

You/we saw this coming, now make peace.

Angier.1047:

As a software developer myself I have to say: Thanks for the update!

Guys: Things are still in flux right now. Regardless of what Irenio might or might not tell us he would be BOUND to disappoint as he can’t be sure that anything he says is going to stay that way until the patch ships on the 23rd.

Better to focus on getting things straight than wasting time giving info on a status quo that is not set in stone and needing to justify for that.

I think you misunderstand a few key things. If you was designing a program for somebody and had it beta tested. Then you was told that the primary feature was not something that was good. Or did not work as it was supposed to. You then do not comment on it instead you say “look at this feature i’ve done this with it” And after three times you keep deflecting and do not fix the feature or even comment on it I’d hope the person that hired you would have the brains to fire you and get with another who will listen to them. And Likely that is what would happen. Now if you told them. “yes I’m looking into that and am trying to find a way to make it …” then you might keep the contract. See what is happening here is lack of communication. Pure and simple. The question has been avoided and avoided questions lead up to blow ups and anger.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Your constructive feedback has been really awesome so far and I trust will continue to be. I understand your concerns with not enough being communicated and I’m looking into getting more information out on some of the more solid changes we have.

Now for the copy past slap in the face. And then the bold CONSTRUCTIVE. Here is a constructive feed back. On the 23rd is the release of all the fun stuff for HoT. The only testing that can be done on scrapper then, as far as we know, will be when we unlock it. As you have not given us any reason to feel that you are looking into the issue that we have asked about and keep avoiding the question. Why would we unlock something that we have told you we don’t like. We waist time trying to play a elite specialization that we hope will be fun. But you won’t answer our questions. You ignore the basic question that has been asked in so many threads. Have been told to you in various ways. Then you only come onto the forum to copy paste slightly modify a comment. You don’t try to talk to us. I look at Revenant their dev is talking to them. Asking what they think of the potential changes. I look at thief, guardian, and various others I see them working with the players. I look at engineer and I don’t see it. I do see it to some point with druid. Yes you have a lot of work to do in a short time. That is no excuse I don’t know what made them do the reveals the way they did. But the fact is communication seems lacking in your department. And you slap us with the constructive" feed back. We have tried and tried. You have not responded. You want constructive feed back. Give us something to feed back. Ask us questions. Your not making Your class your making OUR class and your not responding to OUR questions. I know this may seem harsh but we have tried and tried. The time is running out. If your over worked ask for help. If you can’t handle it ask for help from your co workers. But don’t come onto the forum and say we are not giving you constructive feed back. because you have not given us anything to feed back yet!

Once the 23rd hits and you lunch it as is what type of feed back would you like. Us screaming we told you so. The scrapper sitting on the shelf with out being used because you wanted the class you wanted and thought it was fine with out even letting us hear your thoughts. I know I for one am about fed up with the scrapper. I will be playing other classes and wait for my favorite class to get a elite specialization I can get behind and actually call an ELITE specialization.

A simple we are looking into the elite core mechanic would have been nice. And for those that don’t know Gyros are utility skills NOT elite mechanic. The simple little function gyro itself is the whole elite mechanic as it stands that anybody knows of. Just a simple rez and stomp function that is in a lot of people including mine not an elite mechanic.

What I want is respect what you’ve shown either on purpose or accident is a lack there of. Tell me why I should think that Scrapper is worth my time.

Just so you know copy past is not communication it is a “Your not worth my time” function.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Your constructive feedback has been really awesome so far and I trust will continue to be. I understand your concerns with not enough being communicated and I’m looking into getting more information out on some of the more solid changes we have.

thats the direction we want!

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Rocket Charge will have the leap play at start rather than finish (like other leaps) and isn’t going to be so erratic once you’ve closed to your target.

I’m a little bit confused on this. The behavior of leap finishers that I am familiar with — for example Heartseaker — as well as blast finishers — like Rocket Boots — is that they activate when leaving a field and when landing/arriving in a field.

Will Rocket Charge behave this same way? How you’ve worded your information above sounds like it will only activate on departure from a field. This would be horrible, as placing hammer #5 at range and Rocket Charging into that field to cause the finish was highly effective and pretty darn fun!

Thanks for all the hard work Irenio. You guys must be excited and exhausted at the same time as launch approaches. Can’t imagine the level of intensity!

sirjarros.4107:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Rocket Charge will have the leap play at start rather than finish (like other leaps) and isn’t going to be so erratic once you’ve closed to your target.

I’m a little bit confused on this. The behavior of leap finishers that I am familiar with — for example Heartseaker — as well as blast finishers — like Rocket Boots — is that they activate when leaving a field and when landing/arriving in a field.

Will Rocket Charge behave this same way? How you’ve worded your information above sounds like it will only activate on departure from a field. This would be horrible, as placing hammer #5 at range and Rocket Charging into that field to cause the finish was highly effective and pretty darn fun!

Thanks for all the hard work Irenio. You guys must be excited and exhausted at the same time as launch approaches. Can’t imagine the level of intensity!

During the beta, you couldn’t leap through a field to get a leap finisher. You had to be inside the field when you landed to get a proper leap finisher. If you passed completely through the field during your jump, whether you were outside or inside of it to begin with, you’d get nothing.

What this mean is that now, like all (or most) other leap finishers, you’ll get a finisher when you land if you pass through a combo field at any point during your attack.

So you’ll still be able to leap into Hammer #5 for a combo finisher. But you’ll also be able to, say, jump OUT of a lightning field that one of your gyros just created at an enemy 300m away and get a combo finisher that way.

I have heard a lot of hate in this thread. Firstly about the AI, then about how the function gyro is not a class mechanic. Yes the AI is a bit of a disappointment. It would be nice if the gyros did not need AI and just circled tightly around the Scrapper giving their effect in an AOE, sadly that is not the world we live in. The gyros do have AI, does that make them unusable, no. Necromancer minions have AI and they see a lot of play. I for one do not see gyro AI as a problem that will prevent me from using them, if they will serve within my playstyle’s quirks, if not then I will not use them.

The Function gyro is what I think that they came up with as an alternative to changing the Engineer’s class mechanic, the Toolbelt. Think about it, what is the Engineer’s class mechanic, a secondary set of utility skills. What have they done with other classes mechanics, changed how they function by either adding an additional effect, see Elementalist, by changing them entirely to a different skill set, see Necromancer, Warrior, or Guardian, or they have added something new, see Mesmer, Ranger, or Thief. Adding an additional effect like the Elementalist would require changing all existing utility skills to have an additional effect would have the same problem as if they follow the Necro, Warrior, and Guardian, changing each Toolbelt skill. There are 28 current non-detonate toolbelt skills, that is 28 skills to remake and if they did that most would complain about that because they might like certain Toolbelt skills that would no longer be available if this elite were taken, dissuading people from even trying it. That leaves making something new like the Mesmer, Ranger, and Thief. The Mesmer and Ranger each got a new mechanic skill that adds to their profession while the Thief is really in the same boat as the Engineer; they only got a marginal upgrade to the dodge. This from an efficiency point of view was the only real choice that the developers had to give us proud Engineers something new, and with all things new it will face its own hardships and trials because nothing new is ever truly met without some displeasure at the change. While I as a PVE player would like the Function gyro to be more than just a remote rez/stomp and to have more usability for my chosen mode of play, like oh say remote channeling/harvesting, does not mean that it will be bad or useless.

I am willing to give the Scrapper a shot and see where it goes from there. In all reality that is all we can do for any of the Elite specs. Venomous complaining without any real substantial constructive feedback now will only damage what it could be and make the devs who truly love this profession grow to dislike working on any improvement for us leading this wonderful, quirky profession of many tricks to become a hollow husk of what it was once. A fun and challenging profession to play.
Thank you for your consideration.

insanemaniac.2456:

thats cool, but i did really like how erratic it was :(

Will be very disappointed if the style is lost in this update.

Constructive feedback: Blast gyro does not blast hard nuff? Increase knockback/damage? Idk. I just want my main skill buffed a bit…

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Your constructive feedback has been really awesome so far and I trust will continue to be. I understand your concerns with not enough being communicated and I’m looking into getting more information out on some of the more solid changes we have.

Thank you for the update. Is there by chance any info you can give us on traits being changed up or reworked in anyway? Also has any thought been given too the minors too make them more useful in pve content as well as benefiting pvp/wvw?

steinnovels.9675:

I have heard a lot of hate in this thread. Firstly about the AI, then about how the function gyro is not a class mechanic. Yes the AI is a bit of a disappointment. It would be nice if the gyros did not need AI and just circled tightly around the Scrapper giving their effect in an AOE, sadly that is not the world we live in. The gyros do have AI, does that make them unusable, no. Necromancer minions have AI and they see a lot of play. I for one do not see gyro AI as a problem that will prevent me from using them, if they will serve within my playstyle’s quirks, if not then I will not use them.

The Function gyro is what I think that they came up with as an alternative to changing the Engineer’s class mechanic, the Toolbelt. Think about it, what is the Engineer’s class mechanic, a secondary set of utility skills. What have they done with other classes mechanics, changed how they function by either adding an additional effect, see Elementalist, by changing them entirely to a different skill set, see Necromancer, Warrior, or Guardian, or they have added something new, see Mesmer, Ranger, or Thief. Adding an additional effect like the Elementalist would require changing all existing utility skills to have an additional effect would have the same problem as if they follow the Necro, Warrior, and Guardian, changing each Toolbelt skill. There are 28 current non-detonate toolbelt skills, that is 28 skills to remake and if they did that most would complain about that because they might like certain Toolbelt skills that would no longer be available if this elite were taken, dissuading people from even trying it. That leaves making something new like the Mesmer, Ranger, and Thief. The Mesmer and Ranger each got a new mechanic skill that adds to their profession while the Thief is really in the same boat as the Engineer; they only got a marginal upgrade to the dodge. This from an efficiency point of view was the only real choice that the developers had to give us proud Engineers something new, and with all things new it will face its own hardships and trials because nothing new is ever truly met without some displeasure at the change. While I as a PVE player would like the Function gyro to be more than just a remote rez/stomp and to have more usability for my chosen mode of play, like oh say remote channeling/harvesting, does not mean that it will be bad or useless.

I am willing to give the Scrapper a shot and see where it goes from there. In all reality that is all we can do for any of the Elite specs. Venomous complaining without any real substantial constructive feedback now will only damage what it could be and make the devs who truly love this profession grow to dislike working on any improvement for us leading this wonderful, quirky profession of many tricks to become a hollow husk of what it was once. A fun and challenging profession to play.
Thank you for your consideration.

I think everyone here knows that they had to come with an alternative because of the way toolbelt works. The thing is that the alternative they presented is not enough to be considered as a specialization mechanic. And I’m pretty sure it’s not subjective: The fact that it’s only a pvp centered feature is enough to make it lackluster.
Now, the community gave constructive feedback about it, some gave solutions to improve the function gyro, even without completely rework the mechanic. That’s why some of us were disappointed by the response.

By experience, when they don’t say anything about something about the scrapper, it’s because they have their idea and that they will not change it. Look how it went with the gyros skills: for month we asked not to have AI for obvious reasons, they didn’t say anything and we got them anyway.

You only see salty feedbacks here because the constructive feedbacks were already given in the feedback thread, and they seem completely ignored.

No offence but without a complete overhaul Gyros are going to remain as another set of horrible AI based skills. All of which have been poorly implemented and hinder the player more than they help.

steinnovels.9675:

It would be nice if the gyros did not need AI and just circled tightly around the Scrapper giving their effect in an AOE, sadly that is not the world we live in.

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Hey Irenio,

Thanks for taking our feedback and making the changes announced. I’ll actually be trying the Gyros the next time I play Scrapper, haha.

I hope you’re looking into trying to make Gyros with a mechanic more similar to what Chaith outlined in his thread, but in the meantime, this is a step in the right direction.