Guild Wars 2

Kyon.9735:

Now, where did we even get the idea of breaking down CC into Hard and Soft?
Players came to GW2 from many different games which has a Crowd Control System as well. In other games, CC means any skill that would hinder an enemy’s movement for a period of time but you have the ability to use skills to remove those effects, that would include cripple, immobilize, and chilled. Now in other games, CC means completely disabling your target without any counters, which includes stun and daze. Crowd Control Skills in GW2 are comparably shorter than most other games but have less cool down as well. Those things you called Soft CCs are easily removable by condition removal while those skills defined as Hard CCs can only be removed by Stun Breakers which have generally long cool down.

In EQ, EQII, and EQOA, CC is defined as a term used to describe when a player incapacitates an enemy or group of enemies from a fight in a way to allow everyone to focus on one target. . Nor does FFXI or FFXIV define CC as you claim. Your arguement about what CC means in most games, I wager is an assumption and an inaccurate one at that. By your definition from the wiki, Daze, which a dev post officially names as CC, would not be CC at all, because daze does not effect movement in any way, shape or form.

As well, I can very literally go into the wiki right this instant and change the definition of CC and divide it into two categories.

This would in turn, apparently make it fact. As you use wiki as a fact based source. Otherwise, all you have done is demonstrate what the individual that made the wiki post, opinion is of CC. I am still awaiting you to produce the slightest evidence of what Arenanet officially defines as CC. It is one thing to post a straw man arguement. But good lord man, you making a straw man army here. As well, what I refered to as soft CC was cripple. I stated it very clearly. By your definition here that hinders an enemies movement. So whats the problem with what I said in relation to “soft” cc?

coglin.1496:

Kyon.9735:

Now, where did we even get the idea of breaking down CC into Hard and Soft?
Players came to GW2 from many different games which has a Crowd Control System as well. In other games, CC means any skill that would hinder an enemy’s movement for a period of time but you have the ability to use skills to remove those effects, that would include cripple, immobilize, and chilled. Now in other games, CC means completely disabling your target without any counters, which includes stun and daze. Crowd Control Skills in GW2 are comparably shorter than most other games but have less cool down as well. Those things you called Soft CCs are easily removable by condition removal while those skills defined as Hard CCs can only be removed by Stun Breakers which have generally long cool down.

In EQ which is a large game, CC is defined as any skill that prevents a enemy from demonstrating aggression to you. Your arguement about what CC means in most games, I wager is an assumption and an inaccurate one at that.

As well, I can very literally go into the wiki right this instant and change the definition of CC and divide it into two categories.

This would in turn, apparently make it fact. As you use wiki as a fact based source. Otherwise, all you have done is demonstrate what the individual that made the wiki post, opinion is of CC. I am still awaiting you to produce the slightest evidence of what Arenanet officially defines as CC. It is one thing to post a straw man arguement. But good lord man, you making a straw man army here.

I said CC’s definition in general to most games, but clearly I did not mention any game so I don’t see a reason for you to bash me over 1 game which has a different definition for CC. Since it’s too vague, I’ll have to apologize for using other games to define CC so let’s just stick to Guild Wars 2 CC.

I believe I just said something about the boss skill Defiant. It says it protects the target from Crowd Control Skills yet those skills which are considered as Soft CC does not remove a stack from it.

Kyon.9735:

I believe I just said something about the boss skill Defiant. It says it protects the target from Crowd Control Skills yet those skills which are considered as Soft CC does not remove a stack from it.

And?

Daze doesn’t effect defiant either, and it is both considered a CC ability in the wiki page you linked and in official dev post. Again you think you know what CC means but you keep defining it incorrectly and inaccurately.

Defiant only removes “some” crowd control effect, not all. This is as defined by your eternally factual wiki. So I am unclear how it supports your arguement

coglin.1496:

Kyon.9735:

I believe I just said something about the boss skill Defiant. It says it protects the target from Crowd Control Skills yet those skills which are considered as Soft CC does not remove a stack from it.

And?

Daze doesn’t effect defiant either, and it is both considered a CC ability in the wiki page you linked and in official dev post. Again you think you know what CC means but you keep defining it incorrectly and inaccurately.

Defiant only removes “some” crowd control effect, not all. This is as defined by your eternally factual wiki. So I am unclear how it supports your arguement

Sorry, this is the first time I’ve heard that Daze does not remove a stack of defiant. I’ve always used Rifle as a main weapon in Dungeons. I guess we can wait for someone who can prove it.

But if you choose to end this discussion about CC now, I’ll just put my stand on 100nades. Maybe you can do so as well.

+ Good Burst Damage output
+ Good amount CCs accessible
+ Access to AoE Poison, Blind, and Chill through grenade kit

- You are in Glass Build. Expect to be squished to death the moment you drop your guard.
- Minimal Condition Removal and Stun Breakers.
- You have to use Grenade Barrage in Melee to get max damage.
- Your chain skills are AoE and can be dodged easily.

Terrahero.9358:

Are you refering to the d/d one-shot build as being pure theory?

Anyway, for fun and giggles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0XWXlJaY2I

Nerf 100nade yo!

Do you complain about kohler at AC?
same thing…..aside the fact that a similar build get oneshot by ANYTHING that can dodge or just doesn t run TOWARDS an ele charging a 4 second skill….

So aside that trick, that ele is going to have a bad time……
Its pure theory…as said you won t find ANY of this builds in real WWW……

If you find 1 in a month is for testing purposes…

Can you say its not so?
don t think so…..i don t know many players happy to win 1 out of 200 battles.

Let sum it up:

-glass cannon ele is BAD
-unless opponent is FULL glass cannon and a class with low HP/armor, it won t work.
-can be seen easily and evaded to avoid 100% damage (even in aoe area)
-no invisibility……
-that build is not able to heal or do anything else……
-cannot join zergs because it would die to a breeze
-requires you to run towards the ele ._. or stand still with an ele at 900 range

Viable build?
try it….there is a reason ele complains they cannot play glass cannon.

Terrahero.9358:

Why does 100nade work? Because the enemy is first wondering why that Thief is using a Rifle. By the time they figure out its the 8th profession, Engineer, they are dead.

I lol’d!

LordByron.8369:

Terrahero.9358:

Are you refering to the d/d one-shot build as being pure theory?

Anyway, for fun and giggles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0XWXlJaY2I

Nerf 100nade yo!

Do you complain about kohler at AC?
same thing…..aside the fact that a similar build get oneshot by ANYTHING that can dodge or just doesn t run TOWARDS an ele charging a 4 second skill….

So aside that trick, that ele is going to have a bad time……
Its pure theory…as said you won t find ANY of this builds in real WWW……

If you find 1 in a month is for testing purposes…

Can you say its not so?
don t think so…..i don t know many players happy to win 1 out of 200 battles.

Let sum it up:

-glass cannon ele is BAD
-unless opponent is FULL glass cannon and a class with low HP/armor, it won t work.
-can be seen easily and evaded to avoid 100% damage (even in aoe area)
-no invisibility……
-that build is not able to heal or do anything else……
-cannot join zergs because it would die to a breeze
-requires you to run towards the ele ._. or stand still with an ele at 900 range

Viable build?
try it….there is a reason ele complains they cannot play glass cannon.

Our 100nade GC build suffers from all the drawbacks you described for GC Ele, even worst since the GC Ele actually still has high toughness, they dont need Prec for that build. Their crits comes from a utility skill that grants the next x abilities 100% crit chance. So they gear power/tough/critdmg.

The reason Ele’s or other professions dont pull off GC builds (except maybe Thief since they got baseline high get-away) is because they have other builds that are far more effective and allrounded.
They have alternative builds that are simply better suited for pvp, pve and wvw. Engineer is lacking there, altough for WvW id certainly advise against a GC 100nade build. random ganking is of no value to you server and in zergs you are getting killed first by random aoe.

Its not a matter of our GC build being better then other profession’s GC build. Its a matter of other professions having much better alternatives to their GC build.

If it were guaranteed burst, I could see someone screaming OP, but the amount of things that can go wrong makes it unreliable. After playing this build the last few days, it’s difficult to consistently land, between magnet pulls that don’t actually pull the person all the way to you, or miss completely due to our good friend ‘obstructed’. Net shot, same thing. Plus if any part of it misses and you don’t have them whittled down to almost nothing, you immediately need to go on the defensive, and although there are quite a few tools to do that, your lack of toughness is going to make sure you drop quick. I originally thought this build was OP, but a few days have made me change my mind. When you get one that lands perfect though, it is extremely satisfying lol

The most important point I think ppl are missing about the 100nade burst is that you have to be inside the enemy player model.
This isn’t just a term meaning you a have to just be close to the enemy but for the Kit Refinement barrage to work effectivly you actually have to be right on top of the person, which in itself can be a challenge.
Even netting someone isnt a gaurantee since they will most likely have a stun breaker or even use a block while they are immobile, this is just a natural reaction to losing control, you go defensive.

So yes landing both barrages on a single person (meaning pets and others not soaking it up) will be a very high burst but doing so is not nearly as easy as the bursts other professions can put out without as many conditions.

Terrahero.9358:

Our 100nade GC build suffers from all the drawbacks you described for GC Ele

if it did would be unplayable…(dunno if it is…..but if its played then its not….that GC build is NOT played instead).

, even worst since the GC Ele actually still has high toughness, they dont need Prec for that build. Their crits comes from a utility skill that grants the next x abilities 100% crit chance. So they gear power/tough/critdmg.

if you think like this then you don t need it too….see sigils (also update)
But actualy that GC ele is 100% GC with lower armor than your eng ._. (see armor)

The reason Ele’s or other professions dont pull off GC builds (except maybe Thief since they got baseline high get-away) is because they have other builds that are far more effective and allrounded.

no its because its not viable….as a release date ele i saw how we were pushed in PVT builds
GC ele is not a threat but dies to a breeze….more than eng.
When all we got was healing we started to develop that build ._.

Until then it was considered the WORST class around (save for a short time with a staff combo bug)…and since then it have only been (stealth) nerfed.

LordByron.8369:

.

What are you on about? The GC build for other professions (i used Ele as one example) is because they have way better builds.

But lets go over the list:
-glass cannon ele is BAD
=Subjective.
-unless opponent is FULL glass cannon and a class with low HP/armor, it won t work.
=Applies to 100nade build aswell.
-can be seen easily and evaded to avoid 100% damage (even in aoe area)
=Applies even more to 100nade since the aoe is smaller, it it doesnt come with that handy instant-teleport.
-no invisibility……
=durr…
-that build is not able to heal or do anything else……
=100nade is pretty much a 1 trick pony
-cannot join zergs because it would die to a breeze
=Eurh… GC… hello?
-requires you to run towards the ele ._. or stand still with an ele at 900 range
=And how would you hit enemies that basicly keep standing still with 100nade? you dont.

The drawbacks he mentioned for the Ele apply to the Engineer aswell. Infact they apply to almost all GC builds. The exception is the Thief.

Next. The Armor thing. I personally know the guy in the video, and he posted the build on our guild forum. Its 100% valkyri gear. My bad, i confused toughness and vitality.
Point remains, he stacks 1 defensive stat on ALL his gear. A GC 100nade Engineer stacks none.

People dont spec for GC builds because they spec for better builds. Best builds are the most popular. GC is obviously not it for most professions.
But i see no evidence that 100nade is popular because is so much better at being a GC then other professions.

The 100nade burst actually fits the Engineer perfectly.
Think about it, just like most of our skills with RNG and skills that can work differently everytime you use them.
Like if a zerg is attacking hills by way of the west cliff and they are trying to lay down a catapult you can drink Elixir X and either:
-1) Get the Tornado and knock the zerg off the cliff to thier death where you will then become the ultimate hero defender of the hills and everyone will cheer at your greatness.
or
-2) Get the Brute and maybe knock 1 person off the cliff with stomp before you get focused and killed like the nuisance you are.

The 100nade burst has the potential to burn down an enemy within a few seconds and leave them wondering WTF just happened to me. However since it is AoE and not single target focused you also have to potential to do abysmal damage and be left standing right next to the enemy.

You couldn’t ask for a more (anet) Engineery burst rotation.

This video is post “nerf” and it looks like its pretty solid damage.

Maybe I’m in the minority, but in my opinion, this is one of our worst viable build options and is arguably the worst “viable” burst build in the game.

To me, it only even seems like an option now based on some people’s use of it with high level gear in WvW, and in sPvP, it works sometimes because either the opponent has no clue an Engineer can do that much damage quickly and is caught off-guard, or you travel with 1 or more other players, and just aren’t getting focused at all by any enemy. Static Discharge is still a superior burst spec in that it’s a long range burst spec (which no other profession has) and the 100 nades burst requires you to run your flimsy build RIGHT into the hitbox of your opponent to “possibly” get your burst, depending on if you did one of several things just right and they did one of several things just wrong.

Overall, it plays like a Lamborghini with a Honda 4-wheeler engine.

aydenunited.5729:

Maybe I’m in the minority, but in my opinion, this is one of our worst viable build options and is arguably the worst “viable” burst build in the game.

To me, it only even seems like an option now based on some people’s use of it with high level gear in WvW, and in sPvP, it works sometimes because either the opponent has no clue an Engineer can do that much damage quickly and is caught off-guard, or you travel with 1 or more other players, and just aren’t getting focused at all by any enemy. Static Discharge is still a superior burst spec in that it’s a long range burst spec (which no other profession has) and the 100 nades burst requires you to run your flimsy build RIGHT into the hitbox of your opponent to “possibly” get your burst, depending on if you did one of several things just right and they did one of several things just wrong.

Overall, it plays like a Lamborghini with a Honda 4-wheeler engine.

You and me like our builds to be able to 1v1 and teamfight well…most people just depend on rotating quickly and catching some poor soul unaware. The 100nades build excels at ending 2v1’s quickly, but in most other respects it’s not great. For example, take my tanky cc build vs a 100nade engi. I’ll win every time in a 1v1. But give that engi a roaming ele to give him shocking aura, and I’ll melt fast. Probably faster than I would against an ele and warrior.

In other words, the build isn’t “good” but it has burst. I can’t see anyone taking it to a 3v3 deathmatch, but I can see how people make it work for their tourney team. Wouldn’t recommend pugging with it.

100nades build can be usefull even too powerfull in small scale fights but, if numbers increase beyond 4 like it is in wvw, your dodges will not save you

@aydenunited
@NevirSayDie

I don’t see what you guys are talking about?

100nade is one of our only top tier build.

I’m far from being good, but I play a lot of spvp/tpvp paid and I had no issue with other engineer. I also don’t have any more issue with duel then any other build.

100 nade is a really good “support” build, but it’s not only about that. Sure you won’t like pressure, but 2on2 or 3on3, I can carpet fire the place and give our team the winning edge.

100nade also have a lot of defensive option, and can be hard to catch up.

@aydenunited

I don’t need my target to be unaware of it. Even if someone know I will 100 nade them (they even call it in chat sometime) they will eat it anyway. Just bait them in using their defensive cooldown. You don’t 100nade right away if you dont have the surprise effect. Make them waste their CD, hit them a bit then BOOM death.

@Lepri

I have no issue in WvW with it. I have perma vigor, elixir S, gear shield, nails and KR nails, chill grenade.

Just position yourself, be ready to pop elixir S for thief, and you shouldn’t die often. From time to time, pull an ennemy in, net and combo him.

The build looked somewhat underwhelming, despite the win.

Silentsins.3726:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bLO5H6-CLw

The build looked somewhat underwhelming, despite the win.

Fun match to watch. You’ll notice that Teldo (best engineer in the world?) couldn’t win any 1v1s with the 100nades build, but used it to good effect to quickly end lopsided fights, provide support burst, and apply some ranged pressure. That’s what people mean when they say the build isn’t that “great,” even though it’s one of our best tourney-level builds.

Teldo doesn’t win 1 vs 1 because it’s not is job.

I don’t think he “can’t” win them, but he don’t have too. He is a support AoE dps. Losing his time in a 1on1 wouldn’t help his team.

Kardiamond.6952:

@aydenunited
@NevirSayDie

I don’t see what you guys are talking about?

100nade is one of our only top tier build.

I’m far from being good, but I play a lot of spvp/tpvp paid and I had no issue with other engineer. I also don’t have any more issue with duel then any other build.

100 nade is a really good “support” build, but it’s not only about that. Sure you won’t like pressure, but 2on2 or 3on3, I can carpet fire the place and give our team the winning edge.

100nade also have a lot of defensive option, and can be hard to catch up.

@aydenunited

I don’t need my target to be unaware of it. Even if someone know I will 100 nade them (they even call it in chat sometime) they will eat it anyway. Just bait them in using their defensive cooldown. You don’t 100nade right away if you dont have the surprise effect. Make them waste their CD, hit them a bit then BOOM death.

@Lepri

I have no issue in WvW with it. I have perma vigor, elixir S, gear shield, nails and KR nails, chill grenade.

Just position yourself, be ready to pop elixir S for thief, and you shouldn’t die often. From time to time, pull an ennemy in, net and combo him.

I will clarify my stance on the build like this; this is probably our best high-end damage option available, so in that sense, if you ONLY justify viability based on damage, yes, it’s our top-tier option, with a significant amount of sacrifice of survivability compared to other burst professions. I wouldn’t mention that, because I know burst are not meant to last, but in my opinion, bringing a burst version or Thief, Mesmer, even Warrior or Ele, are better and easier overall options, mostly due to the nature of how the burst is acheived.

I do like the blanketing of areas with grenades to prevent rezzing, however, which I’m starting to realize is a big strength of this build, but again, somewhat dependant that nobody is paying attention to you, or you are positioned just right a long distance away. There’s also some interesting things you can do on Khylo from the roof with this build.

Kardiamond.6952:

Teldo doesn’t win 1 vs 1 because it’s not is job.

I don’t think he “can’t” win them, but he don’t have too. He is a support AoE dps. Losing his time in a 1on1 wouldn’t help his team.

Truth is, many people go bunker in Tourneys. Most of the time you’ll see bunker engies over 100nades engies because 100nades is not very effective against good players playing bunkers.

100nades is very easy to counter – don’t let your enemy get close to you so he can’t burst his grenade barrage x2. After a magnet pull, quickly use a stun breaker/dodge roll(if he’s slow) to avoid it.

Don’t nerf any thing in PvE !! if you want to nerf something , just in WvW or PvP.

Kardiamond.6952:

Teldo doesn’t win 1 vs 1 because it’s not is job.

I don’t think he “can’t” win them, but he don’t have too. He is a support AoE dps. Losing his time in a 1on1 wouldn’t help his team.

Nope. 3:45, someone pops out of a portal and he promptly gets his butt kicked and has to run… er, I mean “go help his team”.

Try again.

This is what I mean about engineer-is-fine apologists. They can see the evidence right in front of their eyes, but they’ll forever have another excuse. Forever.

Manticore Five.9867:

Kardiamond.6952:

Teldo doesn’t win 1 vs 1 because it’s not is job.

I don’t think he “can’t” win them, but he don’t have too. He is a support AoE dps. Losing his time in a 1on1 wouldn’t help his team.

Nope. 3:45, someone pops out of a portal and he promptly gets his butt kicked and has to run… er, I mean “go help his team”.

Try again.

---

This is what I mean about engineer-is-fine apologists. They can see the evidence right in front of their eyes, but they’ll forever have another excuse. Forever.

Are you suggesting that because one player in one very minute, and specific instance, was out played by one, and only one, other player, that it some how deems the engineer is bad?

So by using that metric that your representing, if I show you 3 other videos of those two groups competing and he downs that particular mesmer 1 v 1 six times, what does that say about the engineer ? Given the context of your post, its a reasonable question.

Yes, you’re right. Every example ever provided is an isolated exception to the rule.

I was directly responding to the claim that super-best-engi-in-world could handle a 1v1, by pointing out that when he had a chance he failed pretty spectacularly. Notice that I did not pick that video, someone on the OTHER side of the debate did. That’s called evidence in most contexts, especially since you can’t accuse me of cherry-picking, which is what you propose to do.

But of course if an engineer-apoloigist makes a unsubstantiated claim that he won a 2v1 in WvW once, then everyone is expected to drop everything and worship the balancing of the engineer class.

Funny how evidence only works in one direction for some people.

Other side of what debate ? I posted it, and I am on the side of the debate that suggest this particular grenade build is solid and not overpowered as the thread tittle claims. Are you suggesting you feel the so called “100 nades” build is too powerful?

Your having enough trouble speaking for yourself, without trying to put words in my mouth my friend.

The person who I was replying to referenced the video, so using an example from that same video to reply to that person is valid.

Mesmer is arguably the hardest class for an Engi to beat, so at the level of play that Teldo is in, I’m sure the mes is skilled, either way, there’s no doubting that Teldo plays the kitten out of his Engi. This isn’t a 1v1 build, if you can get the drop on a mes and take him unaware, most of the time if you land the combo they’re down in under a sec, GG. The classes I have the most problems with are Eles and Guards, specifically guards. The almost constant retaliation they have up is our hard counter for this build. You can either wait til it’s gone or risk bursting yourself into the grave.

Just want to point out that Teldo was either not playing 100nades at all, or extremely badely. He never once did the right way to burst (immob, stand on top, swap to nade kit, barrage, etc). I would not base this build’s “power” judging from him.

Teldo’s build leans more towards adding rifle damage as well, and in his tournament play he usually breaks the combo up delivering it in sections as opposed to all at once burst, at least from what I’ve seen. I wish he’d do more tourneys as his multi-kit bunker like he used to, it was like watching an artist paint a masterpiece lol

Walorx.5129:

Just want to point out that Teldo was either not playing 100nades at all, or extremely badely. He never once did the right way to burst (immob, stand on top, swap to nade kit, barrage, etc). I would not base this build’s “power” judging from him.

Or, maybe he next-leveled you all and can hit a moving target?

The combo is around ~17,000 on a light golem, assuming all crits (8x kit refinement at ~820, 8x barrage at ~1200, 1x static discharge at ~900).

Your standard bunker ele has 15,700 health, with an instant ~2,400 heal just by switching to water, and 2,470 on evade, (and cleansing wave, cone of cold, soothing mist, regen on attunement swap, and their normal heal).

Necros have an instant, second health bar.

Most other classes have either better armor, or other passive defenses.

With that in mind, Teldo’s results don’t look too out of place, do they? You need mostly crits AND for your opponent to do nothing in order to 1-shot them. It’s more likely to leave them nearly dead and have to chase them down, leaving them time to react.

Now, I’m not saying that this is an ineffective build (it’s pretty good, and I like it), but it’s not the end-all, be-all build that the OP and some of the others are making it out to be.

I think I made up my mind. My opinion is that this build is completely fine where it is now.

1. you need to stand inside your enemy to use this build.
2. you need to spec entirely glass cannon.
3. its a one trick pony, after you pop your few skills you’re on cooldown.
4. your enemy needs to be standing still.
5. all of this happening in 1 second means it is avoided with a single dodge.

so all in all, you’re dead from afew hits, you need to stand in the middle of the action and you’re only useful for a second.
sure it sucks if you get caught out by it, but that happens what? 1 in every 10 attempts?

Liewec.2896:

1. you need to stand inside your enemy to use this build.

Why would you need to do that to do solid burst damage?

@coglin, so when you switch to nade kit, the kit refinement can get its maximum effectiveness and hit you with all of the grenades

coglin.1496:

Liewec.2896:

1. you need to stand inside your enemy to use this build.

Why would you need to do that to do solid burst damage?

Because of the spread of the nades from kit refinement. Basically goes in random directions so the only reliable way to get them all to hit is to “get inside them”

Walorx.5129:

Just want to point out that Teldo was either not playing 100nades at all, or extremely badely. He never once did the right way to burst (immob, stand on top, swap to nade kit, barrage, etc). I would not base this build’s “power” judging from him.

1) Most very good teams don’t get tethered so easily as to let you walk right into their avatar and spam a 1-2 grenade punch, especially if they know that’s what you’re doing. If you don’t adjust this build to get more everyday use out of those grenades, it’s just a gimmick build. Just because he didn’t have a level 10 new tPvP player to immobilize, walk into their avatar square one, and spam 2 buttons quickly doesn’t mean he isn’t playing it right no more than it means the build is “OP”, which is the light you’ve chosen to colour this thread.

2) It’s Teldo, and he’s better than you.

3) I actually can’t tell if you’ve been trolling, because from your other posts, I’ve thought you were spot on with most things, but this one baffles me, coming from you, calling this build “OP”. Maybe it feels that way since we have no other options to insta-gib anyone, but considering it’s the hardest to set-up insta-gib in the game done by one of the least represented professions… seems like it wouldn’t be a priority, or warrant it’s own “OP” thread, unless it curtailed just a very good night of noob-stomping on your tPvP team that made you suddenly feel 10 feet tall.

Just my opinion. I don’t have a tPvP team at the moment, so I might be way out of the loop.

@Ayenunited

Actually, I agree that Teldo is extremely good.

But I don’t think he is the best 100nade user. Five Gauge use it a lot and pull the combo often again top team players.

I don’t mind if people think this is only a gimmick build, and they think you can’t lend it again a good player. We already got a FoTM wave of new engineer trying it. I don’t want more.

Walorx.5129:

Well I typically run grenade kit/tool kit/net turret for my 100nades.
And with that, here are the CCs I have.
1. Net Shot
2. Overcharged Shot
3. Magnet
4. Net Turret
5. Turret Toolbelt skill

But most people use Elixer R, so that’s still 3 CCs. That is still extremely hard to dodge all of them if the engineer times them well.

Don’t need to dodge them all. All I need to do I press F4 (distortion) or Q (blink) or 2 (staff blink) when I see that barrage, with mesmer. If you use immobilize I can also blurred frenzy through the burst. If you can instakill mesmers, they must be pretty bad… but that expected in wvw.

And I can dodge those slow nets altogether. The ability that takes me by surprise and isn’t totally telegraphed is Magnet, but I generally go for distortion instantly if that happens.

Granted Mesmer is the hardest to kill with gimmick bursts, but other classes can counter it as well (Mist Form, Elixir S, Endure Pain…). If they have an invul skill they don’t need to dodge your CC, they just need to use it when your burst is about to hit.

Yep, Mesmer are the hardest to combo because of their crazy number of defensive abilities.

It’s not only again gimmick build, it works again most build. You guys got a simili CC breaker on a weapon skill, who got that? lol.

Mesmer are hard counter to 100nade, but it doesn’t mean this build is bad.

How is this build OP? I mean seriously, grenade barrage does same damage as any other classes big hitting skills except rangers ( because they are weak ). Kill shot hits for 13k-30k, mesmer blows his clones up for the same damage, necros have skills that do 9k damage in seconds, thieves have backstab + steal, seriously this build isnt op. Its super gimmicky and easy to avoid, hard to land, and reliant on crits.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

How is this build OP? I mean seriously, grenade barrage does same damage as any other classes big hitting skills except rangers ( because they are weak ). Kill shot hits for 13k-30k, mesmer blows his clones up for the same damage, necros have skills that do 9k damage in seconds, thieves have backstab + steal, seriously this build isnt op. Its super gimmicky and easy to avoid, hard to land, and reliant on crits.

Super easy to avoid sometimes. That depends!

Sometimes it’s impossible not to get the D delivered to your face. Take this poor thief for example:

http://www.twitch.tv/chaithh/c/1897273

(You will like this clip.)

Yea I do that on my engi lol its fun. I love doing it to mesmers and thiefs when they stealth, pop magnet pull, blow them up :P But still, 1 stun break or stability skill ruins that.

Chaith, can I ask your gear setup? Runes + sigils? I saw fire so I assume sigil of fire, what rune was that in ur armor.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Yea I do that on my engi lol its fun. I love doing it to mesmers and thiefs when they stealth, pop magnet pull, blow them up :P But still, 1 stun break or stability skill ruins that.

Breakstuns don’t really save you in the least, unless you’re trying to combo out of supply crate or ovecharged shot. They should already be netted so, they shouldn’t escape. You have to compensate for blocks and immunities, mostly. Dat mist form, distortion, shield blocks, elixir S, shelter, renewed focus.. etc and etc.

Ridiculous passive condi cleanse or condi cleanse otherwise can ruin the second you need your immob to stick.

You can check my setup if you like, via my twitch stream links. In my sig.

Ok cool I will.

coglin.1496:

Kyon.9735:

I believe I just said something about the boss skill Defiant. It says it protects the target from Crowd Control Skills yet those skills which are considered as Soft CC does not remove a stack from it.

And?

Daze doesn’t effect defiant either, and it is both considered a CC ability in the wiki page you linked and in official dev post. Again you think you know what CC means but you keep defining it incorrectly and inaccurately.

Defiant only removes “some” crowd control effect, not all. This is as defined by your eternally factual wiki. So I am unclear how it supports your arguement

Daze is same as stun as far as defiant goes. Defiant prevents daze and loses 1 stack.