Guild Wars 2

When I researched GW2 before purchase, there were many key phrases and terms that drew me in.

From the “Combat” section on the GW2 website:
“Combat in Guild Wars 2 is flexible, fast paced, and dynamic. You’ll achieve victory through timing, dodging, and quick thinking, not immobile number crunching.”
Yet Engineers suffer the most when forced into mobility i.e. Turrets, massive issues with LOS, Obstructions that are non-exsistent (Having nets, shots etc disappear into thin air) and the MissMissMissMissMiss spam whenever we are looking even slightly away from target.

From the “Combat” section:
“The skills, powers, and attacks that you’ll wield are impactful and visually impressive.”
I have not seen one skill or power or anything from an engineer that is “visually impressive”.

From the “Combat” section:
“Every profession in Guild Wars 2 excels at combat, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.”
In a game of hybrids “Because each profession is so versatile and has such a wide range of skills and powers” again from the combat section! Why are engineers paying double the amount of hybrid tax? This games major selling point was that everyone can do everything. No trifecta. Noone pigeon holed into healer/dps/tank. Except engineers.
Every profesion in this game is a jack-of-all-trades. Why is it only the engineer profession is being tapped with the master-of-none tax? Ridiculous.

The Engineer was touted as the “Steampunk gateway into the future”. Because the events of GW2 are 250 years(?) in the future, the Engineer was the profession that was supposed to best personify this. But there is very little steampunk about the profession from the boring, outdated weapon skins, the horribly designed medium armor sets(I mean really, there are no goggles other than the starting ones in game? Really?) to even the skills the engineers possess, pail in comparison to other professions.

I have seen a few threads that compared the Engineer rifle skills to that of the Warrior. So I decided to compare and was simply disgusted. And then confused. Engineers when using ranged weapon skills are trying to stay at ranged yes? Let’s compare!
Warriors
Skill 1: Bleeding Shot: 97 dmg+255 over 6 secs Range 1200
Skill 2: Aimed Shot: 85 dmg 5 sec cripple(LOL)for -50% movement Range 1200
Skill 3: Volley: 840×5 Range 1200
Skill 4: Brutal Shot: 140 dmg Vulnerability 10secs+5% incoming dmg???? Range 1200
Skill 5: Rifle Butt: 244 dmg Knockback for 450 Range 130

Engineers
Skill 1: Hip Shot: 182 dmg….and thats it. Really? Range 1000 ??
Skill 2: Net Shot: Immobilize for 2(?) seconds…and thats it. Range 1000 ??
Skill 3: Blunderbuss: 448+680 4 secs Bleed (at 100) 280+170 4 sec bleed (at 400)
Skill 4: Overcharge Shot: 224 Foe Launch+450 Self KB+300 Range 400
Skill 5: Jump Shot: 252 leap dmg+504 landing dmg Vulnerablility +3% inc dmg?? Radius 120 Range 700

Does anyone else see the massive flaws here? Please correct me if I am wrong, but is the Warrior profession a MELEE style profession? And the Engineer is a Ranged Class? Why does the warrior have a range advantage? A dmg advantage? A mobility control advantage? A vulnerability advantage? Really? Bear in MIND this is NOT THE WARRIORS MAIN MEANS OF COMBAT. So a Warriors secondary combat system is better than the Engineers PRIMARY COMBAT SYSTEM?

Engineers need reworking. I can understand the Jack of all trades spin, I can. But NO PROFESSION, CLASS in any GAME should NOT FAIL AT THEIR MAIN MEANS OF COMBAT WHEN COMPARED TO SECONDARY COMBAT SYSTEMS OF THE OTHER CLASSES/ PROFESSIONS. This is completely and utterly wrong. I do not know who is responsible and I really do not care. You cannot let primary means of combat suffer in such a way. You cannot. Its degrading, unprofessional, and is a reflection of a loss of vision. This would be like the Engineer being better at holding a shield than a Guardian. Its ridiculous. Blantantly ridiculous. Laughable. Bait and Switch.

I have two simple words.
FIX.
IT.

Engineers primary means of Combat is ranged Rifles and Ranged Pistols. Rifles are not shotguns. They are not. Rifles are medium to long range precision weapons. Shotguns are short range spread round non-precision weapons.
Anet wants them to be medium range? 400 distance is not in anyway shape or form medium range. It isnt. 100 distance is not medium range. 200, 300. Medium range is 500-1200. Fix this.
Warrior Sk1, 2, 3, 4 need to be swapped with the Engineers. I do not need 3 nets. I don’t. Fix this.
The skills for warriors sound more like they were MEANT FOR ENGINEERS. Maybe they were accidentally swapped. I do not care what happened. Fix this.

/Rant? Maybe.

I personally dont think there is Anything wrong with rifle

maybe they could switch the name to Shotgun or.. i dont know

Add Sniperkit rifle and make it long range and let rifle be as its

Given what they posted this past week on their “vision” for the engineer class they should really give 80 engineers the option to exchange the class for something else because they truely did change it from what it was when most rolled it.

I always wonder, when I see a thread about switching rifle skills, whether anybody actually thinks the gimmicky Engineer rifle at all belongs on a warrior.

It’s true, we don’t use it as a rifle at all—and whether that’s a problem seems to be a very YMMV thing. I like it for what it is, and find it very powerful for what it’s built for (single target/burst damage), but it’s not a versatile weapon.

I think you’ve been misled, though, if you think the rifle/pistols are meant to be our main source of combat—we were never designed to sit on a weapon set like that, especially since we can’t swap and have all of 3 different combinations. Rather, our main source of combat (or at least our half-source of combat) is supposed to be from kits and/or turrets. Not that they’re exactly what I’d call top performers either right now, but as far as intent goes.

(I do agree, though, the hybrid tax is a little insulting when we don’t even get to be the kings of versatility through it. What are we good for again?)

OP – you are too true.

My thoughts about Engi exactly.

I want to use some interestingly-looking gadgets and chain-swords and robotic arms and hidden lasers and stuff.

If someone played bounty hunter in SWTOR – that’s how engineer should feel like. A deadly gadget in every pocket.

Not this “knockdown yourself cause you’re a technical genius, hurrrr” kitten.

If you want the warriors skills go play a warrior… simple.

Maybe I missed it, but where does it say engi is a ranged class? Does it actually say that somewhere or do you just assume it is because it has pistols and a rifle? I’ve always played the engi as a class with ranged options, but never felt like I need to be at some sort of range to be effective.

As a guy running bombs and an EG the rifle works excellent with allowing me to best control the situation depending on whether I want to close distance, create it, or just cause the perception of chaos. The Warrior rifle does not offer near the amount of control, so no thank you…

athuria.2751:

I think you’ve been misled, though, if you think the rifle/pistols are meant to be our main source of combat—we were never designed to sit on a weapon set like that, especially since we can’t swap and have all of 3 different combinations. Rather, our main source of combat (or at least our half-source of combat) is supposed to be from kits and/or turrets. Not that they’re exactly what I’d call top performers either right now, but as far as intent goes.

(I do agree, though, the hybrid tax is a little insulting when we don’t even get to be the kings of versatility through it. What are we good for again?)

Right on. Although there are semi-viable builds that focus on using rifle or pistols as the main source of damage, most engineers just swap to their main weapon set every once in a while for one or two skills, then back to kits/static discharge.

I mostly stick to my weapons, as my usual build does not include kits.
If the Engineer is absolutely supposed to always be keeping some kind of kit slotted, and that’s why they’re treated like they are, then Anet needs to give us a proper, specific slot for one instead of going “Oh, just stick it in your Utility slots, like every other skill you have available. Not like you’ll be cutting yourself off from abilities you might prefer, or anything.”
I do use a ton of turrets, though, as they’re the thing I really liked about the class. Too bad they suck.

Hey, at least we have that 25% ms bonus while in combat!

Shortbow thief with any spec has more dmg/support/survivability than engineer in dungeons.

I hate the fact that engineer pays huge dps loss for being ‘most versatile profession’, but even if engi specs full dps sacrificing every possible support option, he still gets about half dps of a warrior and survivability of exposed ballsack.

Can i just add that a warrior wielding a rifle really has to spec very heavily and gear themselves very heavily( i would know i have an 80 warr that almost exclusively uses the rifle) in order to be competitive with other classes i.e thief shatter spec mesmer and other warriors. That being said i am currently leveling an engie and am actually enjoying not being one of the glassiest guys out there though on the flip side I was surprised and disappointed to find that the rifle was more a shotgun than anything else.

come back when you level up engineer to 80, where rifle takes 20+s to kill a mob
If you think that warrior has to spec heavily into something then you gonna have bad time
spoiler: warrior is actually one of the most versatile professions

I would agree that the ‘rifle’ does not seem to work as such, since that word (to most) implies a distance weapon. To use it to full effectiveness though, I really have to get close-in from time to time and use the #3 skill, usually followed immediately by #4 to regain distance. A lot of people say to get close-in using #5, but I am finding that skill very hit-or-miss recently. :p (this may be a recent bug, since Greatsword #3 on Guardian is having the same issues)

Replacing some other kit with a ‘true’ rifle (sniper fashion) would be an interesting change. If balancing is an issue then replace Elixir X. :p

while the warrior is one of the most versatile classes you cant have that anymore while being rifle spec. level a warrior to 80 and spec into the rifle you’ll see what i mean plus the engie auto attacks non crit for about as much as my warr crits for and since alot of what i do is auto attack punctuated by volley and KS it just feels better to be even auto attacking for more.

Emptor.9148:

while the warrior is one of the most versatile classes you cant have that anymore while being rifle spec. level a warrior to 80 and spec into the rifle you’ll see what i mean plus the engie auto attacks non crit for about as much as my warr crits for and since alot of what i do is auto attack punctuated by volley and KS it just feels better to be even auto attacking for more.

I have an 80 engineer and an 80 warrior…engineer is better geared.

What you says is true about the engineers auto attack, but the warrior has more baseline heath and armor….AND the engineer CD attacks dont hit for anything like the warrior CD attacks do.

I can literally 3 shot stuff on my warrior from 1200 yards…engineer does not even come close to that. In the time my warrior can kill someone, the engineer wont have them to 50%. Also piercing shots on the warrior FTW…ever line up a kill shot for 13k against 5 people…engineer cant do that…not in his wildest dreams.

are you guys serious?

we can weapon swap without CD. no one but us can do that. we have easy access to powerful control abilities. we have 1500 range grenades that do solid damage even post nerf. we have 2 abilities on rifle that hit for over 4k on short cd’s. tool kit has a great offensive damage ability, on demand block and a 1200 range pull. supply drop is an awesome elite for skirmishes and mortar is probably the best elite in game for keep sieges, compared to most classes that have terrible wvw elites.

one guy is saying we have no ranged burst? REALLY? please. we have giant ranged burst on incredibly short CD.
Grenade barrage (static), throw wrench (static), surprise shot (+static), that averages OVER 15k for 3 cd’s, and can be done about every 20seconds.

but my bad. i forgot this is the video game forums, where people complain because the more they can sell the perception that their class is bad, the more likely they will be buffed.

engineers being terrible (copy and paste, links are probably still broken):
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kaYsIR0kYg

2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tTIWYXabmM

3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9IdpgUJCvs

Emptor.9148:

while the warrior is one of the most versatile classes you cant have that anymore while being rifle spec. level a warrior to 80 and spec into the rifle you’ll see what i mean plus the engie auto attacks non crit for about as much as my warr crits for and since alot of what i do is auto attack punctuated by volley and KS it just feels better to be even auto attacking for more.

lets totally forget that you have a skill equivalent to a light .50. and you can take my bloody throw wrench skill for that thing any day.

The Slyfe.7231:

If you want the warriors skills go play a warrior… simple.

Right, but we wanted to be a techno guy shooting his laz0r rifle at the bad guys all pew pew pew pew. The warrior’s skills are supposed to be big sword guy doing big sword stuff. The warrior is never at any point portrayed as the pew pew pew class, yet clearly they’re better at it than the guys whose every single equippable weapon set involves a gun.

Maybe I missed it, but where does it say engi is a ranged class?
Does it actually say that somewhere or do you just assume it is because it has pistols and a rifle? I’ve always played the engi as a class with ranged options, but never felt like I need to be at some sort of range to be effective.

I think people came to that conclusion when every single piece of concept art or related graphic featured the engineer with a pistol. It was then also pretty clearly stated by the whole, y’know, every equippable weapon set involves a gun.

As a guy running bombs and an EG the rifle works excellent with allowing me to best control the situation depending on whether I want to close distance, create it, or just cause the perception of chaos. The Warrior rifle does not offer near the amount of control, so no thank you…

Which part of the warrior rifle offers less cc btw? Was it the part where it’s knock back doesn’t force you to cc yourself, yet is still viable at the range where knockback is actually necessary or useful? Or was it the 5 second cripple that lasts 2.5 times longer than our immobilize and doesn’t vaporize into space half the time? Maybe you meant brutal shot, the one that stacks 2.5 times the vulnerability as jump shot, lasts for an entire TEN seconds and has almost twice the range? You know that toolbelt skill engineers equip the fury goggles for even though we already have elixir b for fury?

Yeah. Warriors get that for free on their rifle as a -weapon- skill. One with vastly lower cool down. And range. Plus it does damage.

Your post is a real cool story bro. Feel free to tell it again.

Completely agree OP. It’s a shame that even the physics of our attacks don’t make sense. Explosions don’t happen at the same width as a sword, the sheer lack of range and the cutesy flying all over shots we get that are useless and leave us weakened and vulnerable or make us plummet off buildings and cliffs to our deaths, or how about the horrible skills even our melee kit gives us that don’t even match most 1 hander 3 shot abilities on the melee classes.

This class shouldn’t be a second class citizen. I’m seriously thinking of leaving the game if january’s patch doesn’t deliver some serious buffs and bug fixes above ground for this class! I already foolishly supported one game designer for misrepresenting the power of military technology, won’t happen again.

I would like to add you forgot the warrior’s adreneline move.

Kill Shot

Level 1 damage: 548
Level 2 damage: 670
Level 3 damage: 792
Combo Finisher: Projectile
Range: 1,500
Tooltip ignores weapon damage. Actual damage for level 3 adrenaline is about 1276.

there are no melee or range classes in Gw2.
If you want warrior rifle skills, go play a warrior.
i take the engineer as he is and am happy
/thread.

It’s getting old with all these threads comparing Warrior Rifle with Engineer Rifle, if you guys are so much in love with the warrior rifle, go play it for gods sake! Engineer Rifle skill’s is by far some of the most amusing and awesome skill’s in the game, and I would take them any day before the warrior rifle!
So get over it or reroll, really!

Yeah engineer rifle does trash dmg, nothing new here. Condition pistols or bombs are the only ways to do decent dmg now.

If you want a class that does good damage, reroll as others have stated.

Amadeus.5687:

So get over it or reroll, really!

Dont worry, plenty of people are rerolling. Compared to just 2 months ago, weve got less then half as many active Engineers in our 300+ man guild.

Warriors are through the roof.

Engineer is a strong example of a difference in how the class is perceived by some players vs. what they actually are in game. Much like rangers (who insist on sitting on nothing but bows all day) there seems to be a vocal base of players that just want things to suit their taste, rather than working with the current class design and giving some constructive feedback.

Engineers are mid range combatants. They have the ability to start a fight at a distance, but they shine at around 600-300 range were they are out of reach of melee and can make the most use of their skills. They can maintain spacing and the tempo of the fight if played properly, and bring a lot of control. They deal damage at a steady constant pace, while their various control mechanisms keep foes from fighting back. Their versatility lies not just in kits, but in skills themselves as many can be used for many purposes. Jumpshot for example can be used as a gap closer, damage dealer, and escape mechanism. Not all of that utility is obvious and going to scream “USE THIS SKILL WHEN X HAPPENS”.

That isn’t to say engineers don’t have their share of issues. But the constant complaint of “I’m an engi and I’m sad because I don’t do excessive amounts of DPS” needs to stop. The profession was not designed to put out huge amounts of dps like some other professions, but there pressure is pretty solid.

Every profession was designed to put same amounts of dps. That was the whole point about removing trinity\healbots\tanks.

Stop this kitten already.

And fighting bosses in 300 range means getting hit by aoe – not viable with our medium armor.
And CC dosn’t really work on bosses.
You don’t need to “close gap” with them. You need to avoid their atacks while doing consistent damage.

Numot.3965:

Engineers are mid range combatants. They have the ability to start a fight at a distance, but they shine at around 600-300 range were they are out of reach of melee and can make the most use of their skills. They can maintain spacing and the tempo of the fight if played properly, and bring a lot of control. They deal damage at a steady constant pace, while their various control mechanisms keep foes from fighting back.

Except when your foe has:
Stability, invulnerability, evade, teleports, shadow steps, leaps, pulls or superior ranged damage.
The only time you will see an engineer perform “good” is when you are watching a video of someone killing confuzzleds\baddies in WvW.

Ever seen a video of an engineer having a really good balanced fight against someone or is it always the engineer blowing people out of the water with it’s uber static build DPS?

IMO Engineers don’t need HUGE buffs to be “normal”; we just need changes to 50% of our skills/traits.

Numot.3965:

That isn’t to say engineers don’t have their share of issues. But the constant complaint of “I’m an engi and I’m sad because I don’t do excessive amounts of DPS” needs to stop. The profession was not designed to put out huge amounts of dps like some other professions, but there pressure is pretty solid.

I’m curious how you define pressure without DPS. Last I knew, consistent high DPS (especially aoe) was considered good pressure, and applying high burst damage was considered good spiking. From what I can tell, Elementalist is better at applying pressure and support. I’m uncertain about their ability to spike, though.

WithoutAssumption.7936:

Numot.3965:

That isn’t to say engineers don’t have their share of issues. But the constant complaint of “I’m an engi and I’m sad because I don’t do excessive amounts of DPS” needs to stop. The profession was not designed to put out huge amounts of dps like some other professions, but there pressure is pretty solid.

I’m curious how you define pressure without DPS. Last I knew, consistent high DPS (especially aoe) was considered good pressure, and applying high burst damage was considered good spiking. From what I can tell, Elementalist is better at applying pressure and support. I’m uncertain about their ability to spike, though.

The deal is people are getting caught up in a metric that has little value in some situations. Damage per second is great when dealing with long drawn out fights, were you can average things together its also great for condition damage, as it does do damage per second. But time to kill or how many hits it takes to kill a target are much more useful for shorter engagements (and pvp). Method of delivery matters as well, is it many small strikes, or a few large packets of damage? I measure pressure as the ability to deal a reasonable amount of damage per strike to the target that results in it’s death and to maintain it for the duration of combat. This means high damage AoE is great pressure in static engagements but worthless for mobile fights.

An example to illustrate my point, homing torpedo fires slow but hits hard. The warrior spear gun fires much faster but does far less damage per shot. Over time the warrior’s weapon is going to fair better for damage over time, but if you’re fighting things like standard monsters that’s largely irrelevant because homing torpedo just kills in far fewer strikes in the same amount of time (and sometimes less). Or a condition build that deals say 1k dps, but takes time to get to that level, vs a vanilla build that does say 700 dps but drops targets in less time because it never has to ramp up, or just hits harder per shot and thus kills faster.

My other issue with DPS is that it’s a metric that isn’t natural. While I’m sure some people keep a mental tally of their DPS and fuss over it, it seems far more intuitive to see how much damage you deal per attack. When looked at it that way, engineer damage is most certainly fine. In pve this means they deal fine with trash, but can fall behind against some bosses. That however frees you up to support the team in other ways, by either boosting teammate damage (combo fields, and stacking vuln with steel packed powder), or improving teammate survivability (elixir R and S are both great for saving lives, elixir gun, using control methods).

Numot.3965:

In pve this means they deal fine with trash, but can fall behind against some bosses.

Nope. Not fine.

Where some classes need to press two buttons and wait while the skill channels, engi has to spam sveral times 3 to 4 skills, kite and dodge.

I am rather certain DPS is used as a metric because it’s easiest to compare performance in different fights with. Damage per hit is unreliable because of the discrepancy in attack rates. Hypothetically, compare an attack that deals 100 dps to an attack that deals 1000 damage every 20 seconds. There are some cases (namely fighting a single mob with less than 1000 health) where the second attack (much more damage per hit) shines, but in the vast majority of cases the first one wins out (with twice the DPS).

Average DPS may be harder to measure, since it’s not directly shown to you without some third party software, but, if you find it, it gives you an easy way to estimate damage dealt in a given fight without having to resort to counting your attacks and monitoring their cooldowns (which is really just another way of measuring DPS or the sometimes used DPM).

What this ignores is support and control capabilities, which I don’t want to discuss right now.

Its an easy metric yes, but that doesn’t mean its good or valuable, especially when evaluating a profession which isn’t made to shove out large amounts of damage constantly. It great for warriors and elementalist however.

Its a hold over from an older era of rpg gaming were damage or healing were the only things that mattered. There is more to the game than just raw damage output over time, and hence I’m baffled why people still get caught up in it. If it is that much of an issue, play axe warrior and sit on things with chop > double chop > triple chop.

Is engineer damage at an acceptable level? Yes it is, if you played during beta 1 you know exactly what dealing no damage was. Do engineers have the highest DPS? no, and they never will. Is that ok? Yes because not all professions fill the same roles the same way. A damage orientated engineer isn’t going to be burning things down like a staff ele or a warrior but they bring other options to the table to support the team.

Numot.3965:

Its an easy metric yes, but that doesn’t mean its good or valuable, especially when evaluating a profession which isn’t made to shove out large amounts of damage constantly. It great for warriors and elementalist however.

Its a hold over from an older era of rpg gaming were damage or healing were the only things that mattered. There is more to the game than just raw damage output over time, and hence I’m baffled why people still get caught up in it. If it is that much of an issue, play axe warrior and sit on things with chop > double chop > triple chop.

Is engineer damage at an acceptable level? Yes it is, if you played during beta 1 you know exactly what dealing no damage was. Do engineers have the highest DPS? no, and they never will. Is that ok? Yes because not all professions fill the same roles the same way. A damage orientated engineer isn’t going to be burning things down like a staff ele or a warrior but they bring other options to the table to support the team.

And who are you to state if Engineer damage is at an acceptable level? Most seem to strongly disagree with you.

There is plenty of content in this game you do alone, and here is a big shock, it all comes down to killing stuff. As an Engineer you take longer, much longer, then other professions to work your way through the same content.

Based on what merrit is this acceptable? Certainly not the games original design goals, which state all professions should be good at everything. Hey what do you know, all professions are suppose to fill all roles. That is clearly not the case.

And what about those who simply wish to play as damage dealer? They should just reroll? Because Engineer cannot compare, nor compete, with any other profession. Neither would the devs allow this to happen.
Would be sweet of the devs if they could then just start labeling professions with the roles they are suppose to fill. Something they specifically said wouldnt be the case since again, all professions should be able to fill every role.

But truth be told, such labeling would just be unique for the Engineer. " Cant excell at anything, not as versatile and we will never allow it to come even close to other professions in terms of damage". All the other professions get the “can do everything”. But atleast such labels would give new players fair warning.

Please describe this mythical “support” in a real-game situation.

I’m really tired of people tossing around vague phrases like “versatility”, “support”, “control” without any facts behind them.

Isslair.4908:

Please describe this mythical “support” in a real-game situation.

Its actually quite easy. Anything you do to directly aid your allies is considered support. Mostly this comes down to healing and granting boons.

Not something id say Engineer does amazingly well either. It needs to spec deep and very specifically to reliably grant something like Might. Which then comes from tossing Elixirs around, with fairly lenghty cooldowns and small area of effects.

In the meantime i can gear and trait my Guardian for offense and damage. And without any clunky mechanics i can instantly use 3 utility skills granting myself and my allies: Retaliation, Stability, Protection, Swiftness, Regeneration and Aegis. Every 30sec.

A warrior doesnt need to spec anything, and just use 1 utility skill to keep 3 stacks of Might up, permanently, aswell as Fury on himself and nearby allies. No tossing anything, just press the button, thats conveniently not even on globalcooldown so it specifically doesnt interupt your combat flow.
And thats something we need to equip 3 elixirs for and spec 30pts into Alchemy.

Yeah. My point exactly.

I have an 80 mesmer, 80 necro, 80 warrior and 80 engineer…I run AS a support class in wv3 and the best for it is the mesmer or necro. If I want to burst, I get on the warrior. The engineer is STILL best for pushing back enemies for keep defense or attacking a keep…and only as a grenadier.

I tried some of the “burst” specs with static discharge and its meh at best in comparison to the others when specced for burst. The only people I could take down fast, like all these “engineers are uber” vidoes, were the “80’s” with that cute little arrow pointing up referencing they are/were low levels. Mesmers, warriors, guardians, elementalists, thieves….ESP thieves and rangers still burn you faster then you can burn them. Its really sad how pathetic engineer burst is in comparison to other classes. Ohh…but I guess the uber healing (lol)and tankieness (lol lol) make up for it for that hybrid label.

But anyway…as as support class, the last one I think of getting on is the engineer.

Was in party today with ele and guardian.

Ele was constantly granting about 10 stacks of aoe might, while raining fire.

Guardian was aoe-healing for like 300 every other second and was cutting mobs very fast with his GS.

Now that’s a support. Not some puny 3 stacks of might or stationary healing without damage.

Eilianna.4921:

Does anyone else see the massive flaws here? Please correct me if I am wrong, but is the Warrior profession a MELEE style profession? And the Engineer is a Ranged Class? Why does the warrior have a range advantage? A dmg advantage? A mobility control advantage? A vulnerability advantage? Really? Bear in MIND this is NOT THE WARRIORS MAIN MEANS OF COMBAT. So a Warriors secondary combat system is better than the Engineers PRIMARY COMBAT SYSTEM?

There are a couple of distinctions to be made here.

First, there isn’t really a concept of ‘melee’ professions and ‘ranged’ professions. True, some professions are better at one range than another, but there’s no design brief that says that the warrior is intended to be a melee profession and thus should suck as a ranged profession. In fact, when you look at NPC archers and riflemen, they’re usually warriors (Seraph Archers and Iron Legion Marksmen, for instance).

Second, with the above in mind – the warrior rifle is intended to be one of the warrior’s two ranged options, and thus it excels in longer-range combat. Engineer rifle and pistols, however, are intended to be all-purpose weapons, ensuring that regardless of whether you’re at long or close range, you’re reasonably competitive. Specialised ranged and melee options are available through kits, but the way engineer sets are set up, you can have a long-range kit like grenades and regard the pistol or rifle as your close-range weapon, you can have a short-range kit like the toolkit and regard the pistol or rifle as your long-range weapon, or you could have no weapon kit at all and still be reasonably comfortable at any range up to the maximum range of the weapon (you’re just not going to have the long-range power of the long-range weapon or the short-range power of a melee kit).

Now, there may certainly be other issues in the balancing of the professions, but a simple comparison of the rifle between the warrior and the engineer is not a sign of a problem – simply a sign that the weapon serves different roles for each profession (ranged and all-purpose respectively).

draxynnic.3719:

Eilianna.4921:

Does anyone else see the massive flaws here? Please correct me if I am wrong, but is the Warrior profession a MELEE style profession? And the Engineer is a Ranged Class? Why does the warrior have a range advantage? A dmg advantage? A mobility control advantage? A vulnerability advantage? Really? Bear in MIND this is NOT THE WARRIORS MAIN MEANS OF COMBAT. So a Warriors secondary combat system is better than the Engineers PRIMARY COMBAT SYSTEM?

There are a couple of distinctions to be made here.

First, there isn’t really a concept of ‘melee’ professions and ‘ranged’ professions.

I think this is the point many people miss. Outside of the Engineer profession, stuff works much better and more “as intented”.
The Warrior isnt a melee profession, its doing what its suppose to do good. Everything, just like every other profession.
Every other profession, except the Engineer. Now i know a Thief isnt as much support as a Guardian, and a Guardian isnt as strong ranged as a Ranger. But the idea is there, every profession should be able to fill every role.

Thats a shortcomming in our profession, the Warrior doesnt need its ranged tuned down (well, except Killshot, one-shotting 5 ppl is kinda op…) but we need to get our ranged buffed. Considerably. Seeing as we have no viable means of performing long-range combat, outside of target-dummy like fights.
We need to spend a major trait just to get our Rifles autoattack to reach 1200range. And thats the only ability that reliably deals damage at 1200range. Everything else is either unreliable (grenade kit), or more often doesnt come anywhere near 1200(mostly everything else, including most Rifle abilities).