Guild Wars 2

I keep seeing more and more people using FT builds, and I don’t understand why. They seem blatantly inferior to other might stacking builds, not to mention landing hits with it is just as finnicky and awful as it was at launch. Am I missing something here, or is it just the usual hangers-on who keep hoping the kit will become worthwhile?

Landing hits is very easy. It is much much better then back at release, so I am unclear why your claiming otherwise. No, it is not the most optimal damage kit, but it is solid damage with a lot of utilitarian value and very good for taging mobs when leveling or doing karma trains.

Flamethrower is great for large AOE fights, but it lacks the power of a grenade build or a bomb build. FT is really good at surviving though, with well timed blinds and knockbacks, plus you have a free fire field which you can blast up to 6 times alone.

PS beware of retaliation.

Chasing someone in bee line while pressing FT 1 is hilarious not to mention it annoys the hell out of them lol

I’ve always found it very good – mainly for the toolbelt skill, 9 seconds of burning is a lot, as well as the instant knockback and instant blind for saving from stuff like eviscerate or comboing into more damage.

no

coglin.1867:

Landing hits is very easy. It is much much better then back at release, so I am unclear why your claiming otherwise.

Because the #1 skill still misses ticks and does reduced damage unless your target is in the middle of your screen, and the napalm skill requires you to manually trigger the explosion which is a pain you’re being spammed with particle effects during large fights.

it has many uses, mainly the blind and pushback. power builds have access to a pretty hard hitting burst with 2 and condi builds get more burning. then there’s a fire field which is always nice.

Flamethrower is good for events with multiple mobile foes and lots of other people around. The “Defeat x foes” Halloween events are a somewhat good example for those kind of events.
Grenades and bombs nay miss due to the small delay before they hit or the foes are already dead; Flamethrower #1 hits pretty much instantly. Because they are so many other people around you can hide behind them and thus avoid being downed so you can continue to tag foes and enjoy exp/loot. Just never use Flamethrower #3 during those events, it does nothing but hamper the other players.

For solo and group PvE content it’s sadly inferior compared to the Grenade Kit or the Bomb Kit in damage, survivability and support, in other words: Never use it if you care for efficiency.

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In WvW and PvP #3 and #5 are very useful utility and thus sometimes used there.

Bottomline: It ‘s still not really viable in the theoretical point of view no matter how hard you try to make it sound reasonable. On the practial side it ’s looking good, has some uses and can apply psychological pressure if your enemy doesn’t know the tools of trade or is a brainless trashmob.

Use as you prefer. But don’t complain, and don’t use it to your teams disadvantage.

I’ve always believed that looks are everything when it comes to this game… and FT looks awesome…so yes its worth using!

Seriously though, there are several builds out there that do really well with it. Phineas Poe and Nakoda (havnt seen him in a while…) are definitely advocates for burninating things.

it’s great. As long as you understand to use it as a supporting kit to something else.

Maderas.9741:

coglin.1867:

Landing hits is very easy. It is much much better then back at release, so I am unclear why your claiming otherwise.

Because the #1 skill still misses ticks and does reduced damage unless your target is in the middle of your screen, and the napalm skill requires you to manually trigger the explosion which is a pain you’re being spammed with particle effects during large fights.

Actually, all you have to do is face the target, its pretty darn simple. If your missing the target, your the problem.

As far as the napalm, I am unclear what your talking about, its a ground targeting skill, you may be referring to flameblast and triggering the detonation, if that is the case, then I fail to see your complaint, as the control on the detonation was ravagely demanded by us regular engineers here on the forums until the devs changed it to its current form based on player feed back. So if your complaining that you take issue with it working the way the vast majority requested, then there is nothing I can do for you when your in the small minority here.

I’ve used it in combination with rocket/rifle turret and rifle in WvW. The knockback skill in combination with rifles net skill is very useful in 1v1s. In a zerg – does well on keep/tower/supply camp NPCs just due to tagging mobs before they get ground down. I’m not an elitist jerk type so maybe doesnt classify as a top level build, but I find it useful in a bunch of different situations. Kind of nice when a thief disappears in front of you too.

Also – frying people through a door that they are trying to knock down? Priceless.

Maderas.9741:

coglin.1867:

Landing hits is very easy. It is much much better then back at release, so I am unclear why your claiming otherwise.

Because the #1 skill still misses ticks and does reduced damage unless your target is in the middle of your screen, and the napalm skill requires you to manually trigger the explosion which is a pain you’re being spammed with particle effects during large fights.

Turn off auto-targeting.

Also, Flame Blast does not have to be manually triggered. It automatically detonates at 600 range.

And to answer your question: it always has been.

First, you need to count with that there is a acctual human behind every character and if you run up to their face with a homemade flamethrower firin’ it up most people react: RUN!

Secondly, the damage is great if you can combine it, simply using #1 aint going to cut it. I run a pistol/pistol + flamethrower and with superior sigil of earth on my offhand pistol + superior sigil of might on my main you become a condimonster all while doing highcrits with flamethrower 2# and interrupting heals with 3#.

thirdly, Gear up right! for PvE/WvWvW I run rampagers armor with 2x monks, 2x water and 2x traveler (the new boon duration runes) and as for offset I go with celestial for that sweet critical damage and everything else I need.

In sPvP I run valkyrie with same runes except traveler which I swap’d with rage.

Traits: 20 explosive for burn on crit, might on heal. 20 firearms, 20% reduction on weapon skills, toughness + might while using flamethrower. 30 alchemy for protection when stunned, 15% more damage while using flamethrower and passive regen while in a kit.

Utility: medkit, flamethrower, elixir B, flameturret or throwmine or thumperturret or rocketboots or utility googles or elixir S AND elixir X for elite.

You need to look at flamethrower 1# from a different perspective, see it as a condition is it still bad? it’s all from 2-4k over 2sec.

coglin.1867:

Maderas.9741:

coglin.1867:

Landing hits is very easy. It is much much better then back at release, so I am unclear why your claiming otherwise.

Because the #1 skill still misses ticks and does reduced damage unless your target is in the middle of your screen, and the napalm skill requires you to manually trigger the explosion which is a pain you’re being spammed with particle effects during large fights.

Actually, all you have to do is face the target, its pretty darn simple. If your missing the target, your the problem.

As far as the napalm, I am unclear what your talking about, its a ground targeting skill, you may be referring to flameblast and triggering the detonation, if that is the case, then I fail to see your complaint, as the control on the detonation was ravagely demanded by us regular engineers here on the forums until the devs changed it to its current form based on player feed back. So if your complaining that you take issue with it working the way the vast majority requested, then there is nothing I can do for you when your in the small minority here.

“Facing your target”, IE keeping them dead center in the middle of your screen, like I already said, isn’t always feasible in PvP. Especially not in 1vX scenarios. It would be nice if the skill could manage to hit without my having to manually aim it, like almost every other autoattack in the game.

I take issue with having to manually detonate it when it can be almost impossible to tell where the flame ball actually is during large fights, not to mention the ever prevalent ability lag making it even harder to time correctly. It would be nice if it could just, you know, hit the target it’s being aimed at. It’s not like it does so much damage that manual detonation should be a requirement.

magical giant.8650:

You need to look at flamethrower 1# from a different perspective, see it as a condition is it still bad? it’s all from 2-4k over 2sec.

Perhaps, but you’re giving up another useful utility like Tool Kit or Rocket Boots for an extra DoT.

Maderas.9741:

“Facing your target”, IE keeping them dead center in the middle of your screen

This is what is known as a fallacy. Its not even remotely true. When I use the FT I hit people to the extreme far right and left of my screen. The have adjusted the cone to be huge. You are displaying a ridiculous amount of illogical bias here.

Maderas.9741:

Perhaps, but you’re giving up another useful utility like Tool Kit or Rocket Boots for an extra DoT.

How so? I use rocket boots with my FT build. Yet another fallacy here. You state this as if by using the FT we magically lose our other utility slots. And what do you mean by extra dot? Its a power based kit with napalm for a fire field. Proper FT builds do a 3k+ AoE with the flame jet and very often get a 4k-6k AoE with flame blast.

Maderas.9741:

I take issue with having to manually detonate it when it can be almost impossible to tell where the flame ball actually is during large fights, not to mention the ever prevalent ability lag making it even harder to time correctly. It would be nice if it could just, you know, hit the target it’s being aimed at. It’s not like it does so much damage that manual detonation should be a requirement.

I dunno, I almost never have lag issues, that is long past. And as stated before, you do not have to manually detonate it, again your crating fallacy. Flame blast detonates at 600 and has a radius of 240. Its not rocket science. If you want to hit something closer, detonate it. Use skill #3 the flame blast, its pretty simple.

Just because you take issue with the rest of the world preferring the ability to detonate it prematurely if we like, does not mean its lesser of a skill, it means a better skill for the rest of us.

I just cannot wrap my head around why you even made this thread. You asked a question, and every time anyone with experience offers answers or reasoning, you rebuff it with over reaction or complete bias against it. Obviously you disliked the kit before you made this thread, and you refuse to accept any benefits we offer based on our experiences. If you cannot understand why players use it, then so what? Don’t use it yourself. Don’t use it.

It still misses tics if you don’t aim it manually, that was my point. I was testing it earlier in sPvP and PvE. And the point of the thread was to find out if there’s something the flamethrower does better now than our other options and if that’s the reason people have started using it more, but it seems the answer to that question is no. It’s still just a stylistic thing.

And Coglin, you haven’t really offered anything other than passive aggressiveness.

Maderas.9741:

It still misses tics if you don’t aim it manually,

So do all 5 grenade and bomb attacks, and the EGs main cleanse is an exact replica of the skill your complaining about now. This by no means creates an issue with any other weapon, hammer, greatsword, swords, maces, 90% of the skills in the game have to be aimed at the enemy or will miss. I just cannot see why this one is magically so difficult to use by comparison.

Maderas.9741:

And the point of the thread was to find out if there’s something the flamethrower does better now than our other options and if that’s the reason people have started using it more, but it seems the answer to that question is no. It’s still just a stylistic thing.

Stylistic to a point yes. Most use it in conjunction with the EG, as most of the traits that effect one effect the other. In my opinion though, when they destroyed kit refinement, they ruined this build for me. At one point, swapping to EG dropped a super elixir at your feet giving a AoE heal tic and removing one condition and when you swapped into FT it did flame blast, which was a small damage AoE just like the one from the sigil of fire and it also cleansed one condition.

But you keep missing the point. Players use it for the reasons they stated, yet you onlt chose to focus on the styleizing of it. The use it because it is great for tagging mobs, has a low CD reflect and knockback, a fire field, and an AoE blind. So it is doing solid damage with great utilitarian benefit.

Maderas.9741:

And Coglin, you haven’t really offered anything other than passive aggressiveness.

Really? That is indeed an interesting statement. I could have swore when you were posting misinformation, inaccuracies, and fallacy based on your bias dislike of the kite, that my factually correction and educational explanations offered very much.

Maderas.9741:

And the point of the thread was to find out if there’s something the flamethrower does better now than our other options and if that’s the reason people have started using it more.

I personally think that Napalm is a better fire field than Fire Bomb. It can be ground-targeted from 600 range so you can drop it in front of you and Rocket Boot through it. Fire Bombs are perpetually left behind you (and your party members) as you move through dungeons.

During fights this is completely fine, and while its duration is long enough to fit Big Ol’ Bomb, Magnetic Inversion, Detonate Healing Turret, Acid Bomb, and Rocket Boots barely, a simple mistake will ruin everything. I actually find it really annoying, seeing that I need to be perfect in my stow cancel on Acid Bomb, hit Magnetic Inversion literally THE SECOND OF its activation to fit Detonate Turret, and still Rocket Boot away from where I DPS. With the Flamethrower this isn’t a problem because of Flame Blast having 600 range, but I just think Fire Bomb is simply very cumbersome to use. Napalm by comparison lasts 10 seconds long, giving you more than enough time to comfortably fit all of your Blast finishers in as well as anyone else’s Blast finishers in the party. Not sure why anyone would prefer Fire Bomb to it, unless they’re really awful at their accuracy when it comes to Blast finishers.

Looking at Smoke Vent and Smoke Bomb, they’re two very powerful skills but for different reasons. Smoke Bomb is great for preemptively avoiding damage through Blind, or using it as a stealth field with Big Ol’ Bomb or Rocket Boots. But as an actual oh-kitten button, it’s pretty bad. The delay makes it a very poor choice. Smoke Vent by comparison is instantaneous, has the same range, has a shorter cooldown, and can be activated while stunned. Smoke Vent has kept me from being stomped in PvP/WvW so many times, I keep it around even when running the Bomb Kit primarily when I have room for it.

Air Blast is a very underrated skill as well. It has the same launch distance as Big Ol’ Bomb but has the surprise factor without being telegraphed (BoB is very easy to dodge). And at a 15 second cooldown, it’s probably one of the better knockback skills we have.

Flame Jet is a bad AA. It scales poorly. It has a long channel. And the burning ticks at the end rather than the beginning. I think there’s a lot of things mechanically that need to be worked on about it, but even in its current state, the kit still dishes out more than appropriate damage thanks to the contributions of Flame Blast.

Does it deal as much as the Bomb Kit? Absolutely not. But taking it as a sum of all of its parts, the Flamethrower is a more than viable setup that doesn’t require you to stand on top of Fire Elemental and burn to death to deal damage. I’ve been trying to use the Bomb Kit in PvE since the latest buff to its radius, but I still find it not a viable choice in A LOT of PvE content.

It has its use. In the meta of berserker “stack and smack” style it doesn’t offer that power (at least i don’t think so.), but it brings some utility into play (knock back, fire field, and blind.) I saw if works for you then use it if not just don’t. there are many other skills you can use. (I use a Grenade/Bomb build myself.)

The flame thrower auto attack is not the strongest auto attack seen from pure single target DPS. That said it is actually a really nice auto attack in any kind of zerg/swarming type fight. You are doing a pretty reasonable amount of damage to a large number of targets which is really the situation where it shines.

Also with my build I have a chance to apply bleeds on crit and due to the rapid fire of the flame auto attack I wind up stacking up a ton of bleeds with it without even really trying this also goes for on crit or on hit effects the flame thrower auto attack procs those things really well which amps up its power quite a bit if you build for it.

Grenade/bombs is probably the highest most efficient damage but flame thrower/EG that I run is a good mix of utility and damage when running zerg support. This build is hilariously amusing when running things like the halloween event or in the middle of a wvw zerg pack.

flamethrower is Only useful for hitting targets behind walls and doors

FT is DPS viable with the right build and ‘rotation’. Just posted a bit of info in this thread. Not the easiest but its rewarding once you get it down.

At least from what I’ve seen and tested.

FT is flat out horrible if you want dps go Static discharge

you ll melt your targets each tool belt of mine hits for 2-3.5k as well as the SD shots

so thats 5-6k with surprise shot 7s cd
5-6k with battering ram 12s cd
5-6k tool kit 17s cd

shave 2 seconds if you put 30 trait points

I’m fairly new to the whole MMO thing, GW2 being my first. At this point, I’m just having fun figuring out how things work. Thank you all for your perspectives, suggestions, and build ideas. Being a noob, I’ve no idea what SB, EG, or HGH stand for. I’ll probably bang my head against the nearest wall when you tell me, and thank you.

Rezzet.3614:

FT is flat out horrible if you want dps go Static discharge

you ll melt your targets each tool belt of mine hits for 2-3.5k as well as the SD shots

so thats 5-6k with surprise shot 7s cd
5-6k with battering ram 12s cd
5-6k tool kit 17s cd

shave 2 seconds if you put 30 trait points

Comparatively 10/30/0/0/30 Rifle/SD is only ~5% higher DPS then 10/30/0/20/10 FT with the right ‘rotation’ in my personal testing. And only ~80DPS higher then 20/30/0/20/0.

Blood~

HgH is a trait – Human growth hormone, that gives might upon every use of an elixir.

EG – is the Elixir Gun kit

coglin.1867:

HgH is a trait – Human growth hormone, that gives might upon every use of an elixir.

EG – is the Elixir Gun kit

Thank you! The thread now makes even more sense.

I’ve started using the FT more and more recently. I don’t take juggernaut though, I can stack 18+ stacks with no problems using this build in WvW. You do lots and lots of damage with FT 2 on a very short recharge. You just have to have mad aiming skillz.

I don’t have any issues hitting things with it (but I tab target rather than auto target so that may help?) it’s good for tagging (ie when your zerg runs straight through there tag….lots of loot!) since you pretty much hit everything on screen.