Guild Wars 2

Mord.9237:

tobascodagama.2961:

Re Sneak Gyro being visible: so are Shadow Refuge and Veil.

The gyro will constantly be the person who has their feet sticking out of the curtains when trying to hide….

unless the gyros don’t necessarily always have to follow you

Well, as a mostly PvE player, I’m actually glad to (finally) see how the scrapper is.

What I love is exactly the fact that the specialization only give a new thing, instead of doing big changes, especially the reaper’s shroud.

It’s not much but basically, what I enjoy is the fact that it doesn’t change the toolbelt at all.

I’m not even sure that I’ll use gyros, but I wanted that hammer since day one.

Also, the traits synergize well with other traits, like the Firearms.

Jerus.4350:

Tyaen.5148:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Calcifire.1864:

as someone who doesn’t PvP or WvW, I’m underwhelmed as hell.

the big profession mechanic is utterly useless in PvE unless there is someone dying nearby, and the elite is purely a PvP ability considering how insanely situational stealth is in PvE for non-thieves.

consider that for the elite mechanic revenants get a new legend, necros get a new death shroud, mesmers get to save-scum, the ability to rez/finish someone at range is so situational outside of PvP that unless HoT adds a LOT of finishable enemies like the toxic alliance, it may as well not exist.

We have no idea on the hammer cd’s & power-scaling so you may want to wait before calling it useless.
Also, do you remember the toxic alliance? I wouldn’t be surprised if you meet a lot of mordrem in the future that need to be stomped

They’re talking about the stealth elite and the function gyro being near useless, not the entire spec. I’m not sure about the elite, but the gyro is certainly near pointless in PvE from what we understand of it. It makes almost zero difference in open world.

Not to mention that they MENTIONED Toxic Alliance in their post. Assuming there’ll be a bunch of mobs to finish off is wishful thinking at best considering they seem to have ran away from that mechanic in PvE. Was there even any in the beta yet? Maybe that mounted boss from the story…? I don’t recall running into a single one.

It’s a heavily PvP skewed mechanic change, moreso than any other class’ and that’s extremely disappointing.

Opinions.
I for example find it extremely satisfying.

No, not opinions. In half of the game it’s use is minimal.

1/3.

And frankly, PvE needed the least help.

Why do people feel it’s reasonable to split the two PVP gamemodes but not for PVE? WvW and sPVP are both PVP, and they’re as similar/dissimilar as Dungeon/Fractal/Open World

No they aren’t. They use different rule sets.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Tyaen.5148:

1/3.

And frankly, PvE needed the least help.

So you’re completely okay with PvE Engineers not getting an elite specialization?

I get it, PvP guys are pretty well known for being…well, things ArenaNet doesn’t want me calling my fellow players, but c’mon, man. C’mon. Nobody’s even really talking about changing this ‘extremely satisfying’ mechanic, just adding to it such that it’s not a nonfactor in what is inargueably the most densely populated and played leg of the game. And yet your response is basically “Cry some more. You guys don’t need anything else.”

Given that sPvP has utterly dominated game balancing passes since the game’s inception, methinks maybe – maybe - you could show a bit more empathy and solidarity with your fellow players, regardless of game mode. After all, I haven’t tromped in here after every balance pass going “WHERE’S THE FIXES FOR *” on the PvE side, hm?

First, yes I’m fine with the state of Engineer in PvE. When Anet forces me into that game mode, which is too often, I’ve never felt the class was lacking.

Second, I’m not an sPvP player, I primarily WvW. They are completely separate game modes (that is not an opinion, but a statement of fact). If you believe differently don’t reply. This Elite adds something that this class has lacked in WvW and sorely needs. Pending actually seeing it in action, iI am very excited.

Tyaen.5148:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Calcifire.1864:

as someone who doesn’t PvP or WvW, I’m underwhelmed as hell.

the big profession mechanic is utterly useless in PvE unless there is someone dying nearby, and the elite is purely a PvP ability considering how insanely situational stealth is in PvE for non-thieves.

consider that for the elite mechanic revenants get a new legend, necros get a new death shroud, mesmers get to save-scum, the ability to rez/finish someone at range is so situational outside of PvP that unless HoT adds a LOT of finishable enemies like the toxic alliance, it may as well not exist.

We have no idea on the hammer cd’s & power-scaling so you may want to wait before calling it useless.
Also, do you remember the toxic alliance? I wouldn’t be surprised if you meet a lot of mordrem in the future that need to be stomped

They’re talking about the stealth elite and the function gyro being near useless, not the entire spec. I’m not sure about the elite, but the gyro is certainly near pointless in PvE from what we understand of it. It makes almost zero difference in open world.

Not to mention that they MENTIONED Toxic Alliance in their post. Assuming there’ll be a bunch of mobs to finish off is wishful thinking at best considering they seem to have ran away from that mechanic in PvE. Was there even any in the beta yet? Maybe that mounted boss from the story…? I don’t recall running into a single one.

It’s a heavily PvP skewed mechanic change, moreso than any other class’ and that’s extremely disappointing.

Opinions.
I for example find it extremely satisfying.

No, not opinions. In half of the game it’s use is minimal.

1/3.

And frankly, PvE needed the least help.

HoT is more difficult than most content, and raids are coming as well.

tobascodagama.2961:

Re Sneak Gyro being visible: so are Shadow Refuge and Veil.

Yes, but those two can’t be destroyed by opponents.

Tyaen.5148:

Jerus.4350:

Tyaen.5148:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Calcifire.1864:

as someone who doesn’t PvP or WvW, I’m underwhelmed as hell.

the big profession mechanic is utterly useless in PvE unless there is someone dying nearby, and the elite is purely a PvP ability considering how insanely situational stealth is in PvE for non-thieves.

consider that for the elite mechanic revenants get a new legend, necros get a new death shroud, mesmers get to save-scum, the ability to rez/finish someone at range is so situational outside of PvP that unless HoT adds a LOT of finishable enemies like the toxic alliance, it may as well not exist.

We have no idea on the hammer cd’s & power-scaling so you may want to wait before calling it useless.
Also, do you remember the toxic alliance? I wouldn’t be surprised if you meet a lot of mordrem in the future that need to be stomped

They’re talking about the stealth elite and the function gyro being near useless, not the entire spec. I’m not sure about the elite, but the gyro is certainly near pointless in PvE from what we understand of it. It makes almost zero difference in open world.

Not to mention that they MENTIONED Toxic Alliance in their post. Assuming there’ll be a bunch of mobs to finish off is wishful thinking at best considering they seem to have ran away from that mechanic in PvE. Was there even any in the beta yet? Maybe that mounted boss from the story…? I don’t recall running into a single one.

It’s a heavily PvP skewed mechanic change, moreso than any other class’ and that’s extremely disappointing.

Opinions.
I for example find it extremely satisfying.

No, not opinions. In half of the game it’s use is minimal.

1/3.

And frankly, PvE needed the least help.

Why do people feel it’s reasonable to split the two PVP gamemodes but not for PVE? WvW and sPVP are both PVP, and they’re as similar/dissimilar as Dungeon/Fractal/Open World

No they aren’t. They use different rule sets.

The point is the playstyle of Dungeons/Fractals differ from Open World just as much as WvW and sPVP differ. There are many similarities but your goals and how you approach them is very different in most cases.

Morfedel.4165:

Tyaen.5148:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Calcifire.1864:

as someone who doesn’t PvP or WvW, I’m underwhelmed as hell.

the big profession mechanic is utterly useless in PvE unless there is someone dying nearby, and the elite is purely a PvP ability considering how insanely situational stealth is in PvE for non-thieves.

consider that for the elite mechanic revenants get a new legend, necros get a new death shroud, mesmers get to save-scum, the ability to rez/finish someone at range is so situational outside of PvP that unless HoT adds a LOT of finishable enemies like the toxic alliance, it may as well not exist.

We have no idea on the hammer cd’s & power-scaling so you may want to wait before calling it useless.
Also, do you remember the toxic alliance? I wouldn’t be surprised if you meet a lot of mordrem in the future that need to be stomped

They’re talking about the stealth elite and the function gyro being near useless, not the entire spec. I’m not sure about the elite, but the gyro is certainly near pointless in PvE from what we understand of it. It makes almost zero difference in open world.

Not to mention that they MENTIONED Toxic Alliance in their post. Assuming there’ll be a bunch of mobs to finish off is wishful thinking at best considering they seem to have ran away from that mechanic in PvE. Was there even any in the beta yet? Maybe that mounted boss from the story…? I don’t recall running into a single one.

It’s a heavily PvP skewed mechanic change, moreso than any other class’ and that’s extremely disappointing.

Opinions.
I for example find it extremely satisfying.

No, not opinions. In half of the game it’s use is minimal.

1/3.

And frankly, PvE needed the least help.

HoT is more difficult than most content, and raids are coming as well.

And Fractals were more difficult than what came before. They didn’t invalidate PvE builds.

Tyaen.5148:

Morfedel.4165:

Tyaen.5148:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Calcifire.1864:

as someone who doesn’t PvP or WvW, I’m underwhelmed as hell.

the big profession mechanic is utterly useless in PvE unless there is someone dying nearby, and the elite is purely a PvP ability considering how insanely situational stealth is in PvE for non-thieves.

consider that for the elite mechanic revenants get a new legend, necros get a new death shroud, mesmers get to save-scum, the ability to rez/finish someone at range is so situational outside of PvP that unless HoT adds a LOT of finishable enemies like the toxic alliance, it may as well not exist.

We have no idea on the hammer cd’s & power-scaling so you may want to wait before calling it useless.
Also, do you remember the toxic alliance? I wouldn’t be surprised if you meet a lot of mordrem in the future that need to be stomped

They’re talking about the stealth elite and the function gyro being near useless, not the entire spec. I’m not sure about the elite, but the gyro is certainly near pointless in PvE from what we understand of it. It makes almost zero difference in open world.

Not to mention that they MENTIONED Toxic Alliance in their post. Assuming there’ll be a bunch of mobs to finish off is wishful thinking at best considering they seem to have ran away from that mechanic in PvE. Was there even any in the beta yet? Maybe that mounted boss from the story…? I don’t recall running into a single one.

It’s a heavily PvP skewed mechanic change, moreso than any other class’ and that’s extremely disappointing.

Opinions.
I for example find it extremely satisfying.

No, not opinions. In half of the game it’s use is minimal.

1/3.

And frankly, PvE needed the least help.

HoT is more difficult than most content, and raids are coming as well.

And Fractals were more difficult than what came before. They didn’t invalidate PvE builds.

I wasn’t arguing that, lol, what I’m saying is really most of the classes need help with pve in most cases. Sure, there are exceptions, but generally pve is the least challenging of the modes.

But HoT and raids will be much more challenging, so saying it needed it the least… well, maybe. maybe not.

I hope they don’t make us choose between the “Perfectly Weighed” and the “Final Salvo” traits cuz I want to use both.

Headcase.4618:

I hope they don’t make us choose between the “Perfectly Weighed” and the “Final Salvo” traits cuz I want to use both.

I think both of them are grandmasters

Tyaen.5148:

First, yes I’m fine with the state of Engineer in PvE. When Anet forces me into that game mode, which is too often, I’ve never felt the class was lacking.

Second, I’m not an sPvP player, I primarily WvW. They are completely separate game modes (that is not an opinion, but a statement of fact). If you believe differently don’t reply. This Elite adds something that this class has lacked in WvW and sorely needs. Pending actually seeing it in action, iI am very excited.

Didn’t ask if you were fine with the state of Engineer in PvE. I asked if you were okay with PvE Engineer players not getting an elite spec. Because right now we’re not getting one. Or at least we’re not getting a complete spec; only PvP players, either structured or Wuv – and no, the two game modes are not as different from each other as they communally are from PvE – are getting a complete spec.

I’m not asking for them to rebuild the Scrapper completely. Even if they had time to do it, I wouldn’t want them to. The base, fundamental concept of the function gyro is awesome. It’s like a universal remote; it’s incredibly Engineer-y and flavorful and I think it’s exactly the sort of thing that could set the Scrapper apart. Right now, though? its functionality is intensely limited and essentially nonexistent in PvE; for something specifically named “the Function Gyro”, it does not have much function.

Let it take the place of the Scrapper’s normal interact. Gather at range, or leave the Function Gyro to do world prompts while the Scrapper itself smashes faces with a hammer. Disable the Scrapper’s own interacts while the Gyro is doing its thing – no double-button-pushing or such, but if the Scrapper’s new mechanic is a universal remote, make it universal. That would be awesome, and it wouldn’t impact the PvP types whatsoever. You could still remote-stomp. It’s simply that the rest of us would also be able to enjoy having a cool new elite spec to play around with.

Headcase.4618:

I hope they don’t make us choose between the “Perfectly Weighed” and the “Final Salvo” traits cuz I want to use both.

I think they are both GM traits so i think you must choose one.

what were you guys hoping for from the elite spec that engi cant already do in pve? it has control, damage, offensive support, mobility, and it can do fight mechanic support in a pinch (reflects, unblockable, mobility, defiance management, soft cc, whatever). in addition, its at/near the top of dps rankings with multiple builds. and the skill level required for open world tagging/zerging is about the same as staff guard.

It’s pretty simple:
We were never in the PvE meta but always did fine in all its aspects. actually were are in such a comfortable spot that playing engi is more fun for many than playing the classes that are actually in the meta.

So, our fellow PvE-only players are simply upset that it doesn’t look like this specialization will bring us to the top, while trying to argue the unpleasant fact away that we are indeed in a solid position in all PvE content-aspects.

What we were severely lacking in is the needed survivability to keep up with the heavy AoE/CC-spam that awaits you in Zerging. And this is actually a real issue, since our class is designed to become more & more effective the closer our target are. Best examples are Flamethrower & Bombkit.
So in WvW we were actually suffering from playstyle-breaking incapabilities, which are now addressed & fixed with this specialization. Even if gyros turn out to melt in AoE dmg & therefore are completely useless, we still get a decent load of survivability-focused traits & utility that is not dependend on the lifespan of gyros.
This specialization fixed something we were lacking: frontline survivability. And for a class that is designed to be more effective the closer the enemy is, this is great news.

So yea, PvE got kinda left out by this specialization, but then again, we already had a pretty solid spot there.
So quit the whining & enjoy your class becoming more complete. Maybe the next specialization will come with uber-DPS for you.

Morfedel.4165:

Tyaen.5148:

Morfedel.4165:

Tyaen.5148:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Calcifire.1864:

as someone who doesn’t PvP or WvW, I’m underwhelmed as hell.

the big profession mechanic is utterly useless in PvE unless there is someone dying nearby, and the elite is purely a PvP ability considering how insanely situational stealth is in PvE for non-thieves.

consider that for the elite mechanic revenants get a new legend, necros get a new death shroud, mesmers get to save-scum, the ability to rez/finish someone at range is so situational outside of PvP that unless HoT adds a LOT of finishable enemies like the toxic alliance, it may as well not exist.

We have no idea on the hammer cd’s & power-scaling so you may want to wait before calling it useless.
Also, do you remember the toxic alliance? I wouldn’t be surprised if you meet a lot of mordrem in the future that need to be stomped

They’re talking about the stealth elite and the function gyro being near useless, not the entire spec. I’m not sure about the elite, but the gyro is certainly near pointless in PvE from what we understand of it. It makes almost zero difference in open world.

Not to mention that they MENTIONED Toxic Alliance in their post. Assuming there’ll be a bunch of mobs to finish off is wishful thinking at best considering they seem to have ran away from that mechanic in PvE. Was there even any in the beta yet? Maybe that mounted boss from the story…? I don’t recall running into a single one.

It’s a heavily PvP skewed mechanic change, moreso than any other class’ and that’s extremely disappointing.

Opinions.
I for example find it extremely satisfying.

No, not opinions. In half of the game it’s use is minimal.

1/3.

And frankly, PvE needed the least help.

HoT is more difficult than most content, and raids are coming as well.

And Fractals were more difficult than what came before. They didn’t invalidate PvE builds.

I wasn’t arguing that, lol, what I’m saying is really most of the classes need help with pve in most cases. Sure, there are exceptions, but generally pve is the least challenging of the modes.

But HoT and raids will be much more challenging, so saying it needed it the least… well, maybe. maybe not.

That’s an interesting point. Since in WvW and sPvP you aren’t fighting AI it makes build choice and diversity even more important. I would argue that if you can find counterplay in WvW and sPvP you will be able to apply that to PvE as well.

All I’m trying to say is this new elite offers a massive alternative play style to WvW that was really lacking. I’ve found imperfect ways to try and replicate it, but there is always something missing. If what’s been revealed so far actually plays the way it seems it should this is really exciting to me.

We could all play it BWE3 and be completely disappointed, but for now I’m interested.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Tyaen.5148:

First, yes I’m fine with the state of Engineer in PvE. When Anet forces me into that game mode, which is too often, I’ve never felt the class was lacking.

Second, I’m not an sPvP player, I primarily WvW. They are completely separate game modes (that is not an opinion, but a statement of fact). If you believe differently don’t reply. This Elite adds something that this class has lacked in WvW and sorely needs. Pending actually seeing it in action, iI am very excited.

Didn’t ask if you were fine with the state of Engineer in PvE. I asked if you were okay with PvE Engineer players not getting an elite spec. Because right now we’re not getting one. Or at least we’re not getting a complete spec; only PvP players, either structured or Wuv – and no, the two game modes are not as different from each other as they communally are from PvE – are getting a complete spec.

I’m not asking for them to rebuild the Scrapper completely. Even if they had time to do it, I wouldn’t want them to. The base, fundamental concept of the function gyro is awesome. It’s like a universal remote; it’s incredibly Engineer-y and flavorful and I think it’s exactly the sort of thing that could set the Scrapper apart. Right now, though? its functionality is intensely limited and essentially nonexistent in PvE; for something specifically named “the Function Gyro”, it does not have much function.

Let it take the place of the Scrapper’s normal interact. Gather at range, or leave the Function Gyro to do world prompts while the Scrapper itself smashes faces with a hammer. Disable the Scrapper’s own interacts while the Gyro is doing its thing – no double-button-pushing or such, but if the Scrapper’s new mechanic is a universal remote, make it universal. That would be awesome, and it wouldn’t impact the PvP types whatsoever. You could still remote-stomp. It’s simply that the rest of us would also be able to enjoy having a cool new elite spec to play around with.

Then the answer to that is also yes. You are getting an Elite. You may choose to ignore it (like I have to ignore many class functions in WvW) but nothing says you can’t use the new features in PvE.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Tyaen.5148:

First, yes I’m fine with the state of Engineer in PvE. When Anet forces me into that game mode, which is too often, I’ve never felt the class was lacking.

Second, I’m not an sPvP player, I primarily WvW. They are completely separate game modes (that is not an opinion, but a statement of fact). If you believe differently don’t reply. This Elite adds something that this class has lacked in WvW and sorely needs. Pending actually seeing it in action, iI am very excited.

Didn’t ask if you were fine with the state of Engineer in PvE. I asked if you were okay with PvE Engineer players not getting an elite spec. […]

Appart from that being a biased & too early call:
Yea, I don’t give a cat about fractals or dungeons, & when it comes to raids, we maybe become very happy to turn out this tanky.
Also I wouldn’t be surprised if the hammer turns out to have way better burst & power scaling than rifle, so you at least can get “something”.

For the love of…

A’ight, full disclosure here: my Engineer is a Flamethrower build, Firearms/Inventions/Alchemy. I use Sinister armor and Iron-Blooded. I’m not one of the rampant Zerk-or-go-home jackwads who believes that any trait with doesn’t read “+10% damage while [X]” is useless and any skill which is not a fire field, a blast finisher, or an AoE stealth is also useless.

I’m not talking Dungeon speed clears or lvl9000 Fractals. Those guys are never going to be happy with anything ArenaNet does anyways. What I’m talking is PvE, i.e. “any space in which one’s objective is not to defeat other human players.” Open world, Living Story, dungeons/fractals, raids, whatever. That segment of the game – the one in which the vast majority of the players in this game operate, if not the majority of forum guys – is getting a half-functional elite specialization at best.

Let’s flip this around – if ArenaNet had released the Scrapper, and its Function Gyro was strictly a PvE utility thingus – auto-gathering, distance interact prompts, whatever – and had no ability to res or stomp at all, would that have been kosher with you PvP guys? If the ability had stated “This ability cannot be used in PvP”, would that not have caused a gigantic forum explosion akin to the Dragonhunter name fracas or the mere existence of the Tempest?

Why is it okay for the same thing to be done to the majority of the playerbase on the PvE side, instead?

DevilLordLaser.8619:

For the love of…

A’ight, full disclosure here: my Engineer is a Flamethrower build, Firearms/Inventions/Alchemy. I use Sinister armor and Iron-Blooded. I’m not one of the rampant Zerk-or-go-home jackwads who believes that any trait with doesn’t read “+10% damage while [X]” is useless and any skill which is not a fire field, a blast finisher, or an AoE stealth is also useless.

I’m not talking Dungeon speed clears or lvl9000 Fractals. Those guys are never going to be happy with anything ArenaNet does anyways. What I’m talking is PvE, i.e. “any space in which one’s objective is not to defeat other human players.” Open world, Living Story, dungeons/fractals, raids, whatever. That segment of the game – the one in which the vast majority of the players in this game operate, if not the majority of forum guys – is getting a half-functional elite specialization at best.

Let’s flip this around – if ArenaNet had released the Scrapper, and its Function Gyro was strictly a PvE utility thingus – auto-gathering, distance interact prompts, whatever – and had no ability to res or stomp at all, would that have been kosher with you PvP guys? If the ability had stated “This ability cannot be used in PvP”, would that not have caused a gigantic forum explosion akin to the Dragonhunter name fracas or the mere existence of the Tempest?

Why is it okay for the same thing to be done to the majority of the playerbase on the PvE side, instead?

Because they already did that. It’s called the Engineer.

…gotcha.

A’ight then. I forgot – Engineer PvP Complaints subforum. Do pardon, I keep forgetting that PvP players don’t care about anyone or anything that doesn’t have to do with being a giant **** to everyone else on the map.

You’re totally right. PvE players didn’t want anything new or cool to do with their Engineers anyways. Carry on.

I like it, excited to see it in action.

It’s been said a hundred times already, but stomping is likely something that will be a bigger part of PvE. They’ve had it in the past, and now 2 elite spec have skills or mechanics that specifically relate to stomping. I don’t really care either way because to me it’s worth it just for the revive, but stomping could very easily become more prominent in PvE.

Speaking strictly PvE… no more worrying about cleave when someone dies to the cliffside boss. No more worrying about standing still to revive someone at the Lava fractal. I can revive someone in Mai Trin (or at least keep them alive a bit longer) without getting blasted by the cannons. I can spike revive with my gyro/Elixir R/myself all together to revive someone in the cannon death circles, rather than letting them die.

To act as if revive is not a huge part of end game PvE is incorrect IMO and it’s likely only going to get more important as the content gets more difficult (raids). Even the best players go down once in awhile, and the best groups can have those times where you want to revive someone. It will be awesome to continue doing damage while also reviving, or reviving really quickly, or reviving someone in an AOE circle that would have killed us if we tried to help. It remains to be seen how the mechanics work, cooldowns, durations, etc, but it certainly looks like Engis have strongly claimed the spot as best reviver in the game.

If Function Gyro was named anything else I could possibly entertain the idea of it being limited to only stomp/rezz, but its not. So until the livestream tells us otherwise I’m going to be of the opinion that as the name dictates our Function Gyro can interact with anything you’d press F for.

So PvEers out there please relax. The devs have clearly stated that all GW2 players are PvEers first and PvP/WvW players second so I’d find it real hard to believe they’d have an Elite spec mechanic that will for the most part only be used in PvP/WvW.

I just want to say, it’s kind of hilarious we got a 6th F skill. I can almost hear the dev meeting:
“Hey we want to give the engineer an f6, but the UI bar is already getting too long and we don’t want to program in yet another fskill keybind.”
“Hey… What if we put the new skill on the actual F key?”
And thus, profession skill F0 was born.

I don’t get why everyone is up in arms about the function Gryo being less useful in PvE. Yes, there is next to nothing to stomp in PvE, but I really want to be in your dungeon groups if you manage to be in such a group that nobody is downed ever. And in open world bosses, people get knocked down all the time.

Being able to use the Gyro to pick up a teammate while being able to continue attacking is amazing. Simply amazing. Elixer R could do this to an extent, but this sounds way more effective.

What if you can deploy your gyro and then do a normal res? Can you res two people at once or res one at double speed? Can this stack with Elixer R for triple resing speed? Will this work on fully dead teammates so you can slowly revive them instead of taking yourself out of the fight for the full minute it takes to pick up a full dead team-mate in combat? If the answer to any of those is yes, then engineer becomes uniquely useful for resurrecting allies in dungeons and raids.

And if you never have teammates because you always play solo, and don’t do open world events with random people around, then most support skills on most classes will be of minimal use to you anyways, so go complain about those.

The stealth Gyro, we’ll see how that plays out, but crate and mortar are probably going to be the go-to PVE elites anyway. If it turns out well, between that and smoke bomb, an engineer could potentially be a complete replacement for a thief in dungeon groups that use skipping tricks. If not, it will pretty much just be a neat party trick for PvP, yeah. Though if HoT introduced more stealthing enemies, the reveal might become surprisingly useful.

What I’m worried about is the Clensing Gyro; given that arenanet seems to NOT want to give engies a good healing skill, considering the medkit is still garbage after getting a total overhaul. A traited healing turret is 3 group condition clears every 20 seconds, so the gyro will need to beat that handily or healing turret will still be the optimal heal. meaning that within 20 seconds, it needs to strip up to 15 conditions off of up to 5 targets, at a minimum.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

What I’m talking is PvE, i.e. “any space in which one’s objective is not to defeat other human players.” Open world, Living Story, dungeons/fractals, raids, whatever. That segment of the game – the one in which the vast majority of the players in this game operate, if not the majority of forum guys – is getting a half-functional elite specialization at best.

Let’s flip this around – if ArenaNet had released the Scrapper, and its Function Gyro was strictly a PvE utility thingus – auto-gathering, distance interact prompts, whatever – and had no ability to res or stomp at all, would that have been kosher with you PvP guys? If the ability had stated “This ability cannot be used in PvP”, would that not have caused a gigantic forum explosion akin to the Dragonhunter name fracas or the mere existence of the Tempest?

Why is it okay for the same thing to be done to the majority of the playerbase on the PvE side, instead?

I’d just like to congratulate you on having such skilled teammates that you’ve never needed to res an ally during combat in the last 3 years. That is really quite an accomplishment.

Not sure why you need Purge Gyro to outclass HT when they’re not competing for a slot.

Due to this screen hammer 2 will be whirl skill probably like guard has on gs
http://cdn.tentonhammer.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/gw2hot_09_2015_weapon_skill_2_electro_whirl_0.jpg?itok=wso103i4

insanemaniac.2456:

what were you guys hoping for from the elite spec that engi cant already do in pve? it has control, damage, offensive support, mobility, and it can do fight mechanic support in a pinch (reflects, unblockable, mobility, defiance management, soft cc, whatever). in addition, its at/near the top of dps rankings with multiple builds. and the skill level required for open world tagging/zerging is about the same as staff guard.

Really it’s as simple as I want to use the new cool stuff without feeling like the majority of it is just going to waste. Now, that’s not saying I have anything wrong with the majority of the traits/utility/whatever being more PVP focused, what I mean is I should have some options that will see use in PVE, if I spec it up right I shouldn’t have the majority of my traits doing nothing for me. And, that’s what it feels like right now.

Of course if they lifted this silly “you must use new specialization to use the new weapon” thing than I’d just nod and say ok. It’d just be another inventions basically, fwe niche uses in PVE but not something that sees much use, and at least I’d get the hammer.

Jerus.4350:

Of course if they lifted this silly “you must use new specialization to use the new weapon”

Huh?

Tyaen.5148:

Jerus.4350:

Of course if they lifted this silly “you must use new specialization to use the new weapon”

Huh?

He’s talking about how you have to take the Scrapper spec tree in order to equip the Hammer.

Nilix.2170:

Tyaen.5148:

Jerus.4350:

Of course if they lifted this silly “you must use new specialization to use the new weapon”

Huh?

He’s talking about how you have to take the Scrapper spec tree in order to equip the Hammer.

But some of those traits are specifically related to the hammer, so what’s the problem?

Tyaen.5148:

Nilix.2170:

Tyaen.5148:

Jerus.4350:

Of course if they lifted this silly “you must use new specialization to use the new weapon”

Huh?

He’s talking about how you have to take the Scrapper spec tree in order to equip the Hammer.

But some of those traits are specifically related to the hammer, so what’s the problem?

Eh, I don’t mind since it synergizes really well with Scrap more than any other spec. I’ll probably be using it instead of Inventions

one thing im curios about… wtf is going on with that red fella?

Jerus.4350:

Of course if they lifted this silly “you must use new specialization to use the new weapon”

mm, agreed.

Basaltface.2786:

one thing im curios about… wtf is going on with that red fella?

Frag? Caltrops? Blueberries?

Basaltface.2786:

one thing im curios about… wtf is going on with that red fella?

Those look like bombs

Yawn more stealth the game didn’t need. More stability on a class that can already get perma stability with juggernaught. Yay engis will be stupid annoying bunkers in spvp again man I just cant wait sarcasm off.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Yawn more stealth the game didn’t need. More stability on a class that can already get perma stability with juggernaught. Yay engis will be stupid annoying bunkers in spvp again man I just cant wait sarcasm off.

You know, if you are going to be condescending, it helps to say something actually intelligent.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

…gotcha.

A’ight then. I forgot – Engineer PvP Complaints subforum. Do pardon, I keep forgetting that PvP players don’t care about anyone or anything that doesn’t have to do with being a giant **** to everyone else on the map.

You’re totally right. PvE players didn’t want anything new or cool to do with their Engineers anyways. Carry on.

sigh Let’s take a look at other specs then, hmm? Let’s take the Reaper, cause I know the most about that one and because it seems to be common by people to scream “look at what Reaper/Chronomancer got!!!” when saying their stuff is bad.

Not, let’s see, Scrapper so far sounds pretty kitten good in sPvP and WvW, not so much in PvE; However, base Engi is pretty kitten good in PvE and less so in the other gamemodes.

Now Reaper : He is pretty kitten strong in PvE because he does damage out of this world (if they finaly get rid of icebow #4 i mean) and the new changes to the workings of soft CC on breakbars means the chill they have provides constant pressure on the bar and prevents it from rapidly refilling for not taking “damage” too long; additonally they can, like base engi, pretty much sustain 25 vuln on their own.

They are also pretty decent in sPvP, although that part will shift a lot once people know the tells of the Reapers attacks.

However, Reaper is pretty abysmal in WvW zerging because being a melee frontliner with no active defenses in a blob is pretty much suicide.

Now, base Necro is mediocre in PvE, pretty decent in sPvP (although mostly as a counter to the godmode of PvP, D/D Cele Ele) and Meta in WvW blobs as a Well Bomber.

Notice a trend? The Specs both give (or seem to give in the Scrappers case) the profession a boost in one area while doing less for the other. And hey, maybe you’ll be able to interact with consoles and chests in PvE, and raids and HoT content might have a lot more of finishable enemies or situations where players get downed. I especially would say Sylvari turned Mordrem might need to be finished like a player character.

Sagramor.7395:

Not sure why you need Purge Gyro to outclass HT when they’re not competing for a slot.

Because ANYTHING that cleanses conditions frequently enough to save you from a condition user like a mesmer or another engie is going to outclass the heal turret’s cleansing abilities by default, especially if it’s meant to also cleanse allies and be a group benefiting utility in the same way healing turret is. We already have Elixir C for those massive burst applications of condition damage, so we need something to deal with the constant replications of shorter conditions.

Shiki.7148:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

…gotcha.

A’ight then. I forgot – Engineer PvP Complaints subforum. Do pardon, I keep forgetting that PvP players don’t care about anyone or anything that doesn’t have to do with being a giant **** to everyone else on the map.

You’re totally right. PvE players didn’t want anything new or cool to do with their Engineers anyways. Carry on.

sigh Let’s take a look at other specs then, hmm? Let’s take the Reaper, cause I know the most about that one and because it seems to be common by people to scream “look at what Reaper/Chronomancer got!!!” when saying their stuff is bad.

Not, let’s see, Scrapper so far sounds pretty kitten good in sPvP and WvW, not so much in PvE; However, base Engi is pretty kitten good in PvE and less so in the other gamemodes.

Now Reaper : He is pretty kitten strong in PvE because he does damage out of this world (if they finaly get rid of icebow #4 i mean) and the new changes to the workings of soft CC on breakbars means the chill they have provides constant pressure on the bar and prevents it from rapidly refilling for not taking “damage” too long; additonally they can, like base engi, pretty much sustain 25 vuln on their own.

They are also pretty decent in sPvP, although that part will shift a lot once people know the tells of the Reapers attacks.

However, Reaper is pretty abysmal in WvW zerging because being a melee frontliner with no active defenses in a blob is pretty much suicide.

Now, base Necro is mediocre in PvE, pretty decent in sPvP (although mostly as a counter to the godmode of PvP, D/D Cele Ele) and Meta in WvW blobs as a Well Bomber.

Notice a trend? The Specs both give (or seem to give in the Scrappers case) the profession a boost in one area while doing less for the other. And hey, maybe you’ll be able to interact with consoles and chests in PvE, and raids and HoT content might have a lot more of finishable enemies or situations where players get downed. I especially would say Sylvari turned Mordrem might need to be finished like a player character.

Reaper’s PVE damage isn’t all that great, it’s utility is still pretty much bubkiss and the chill condition is pretty much non existant and while some breakbar pressure is nice it’s not anything to write home about. Necro/Reaper is still “/meh it’s fun to play at least” for PVE.

Rewind to before the specialization patch and Engi’s were top tier PVP/Roaming, in the exact same standings as they are now in PVE (we gained condi options basically), and we were pretty decent in WvW zerging but lost some stuff.

So was the entire specialization patch to nerf professions in some way so they could introduce fixes for the problems they created? Such fun stuff…

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Yawn more stealth the game didn’t need. More stability on a class that can already get perma stability with juggernaught. Yay engis will be stupid annoying bunkers in spvp again man I just cant wait sarcasm off.

can’t wait to play the super anyoing decap scrapper

Already complaining? Lol no. You we none of us can say a dam thing about yet. And rez/stomp works in all aspects of the game . Gathering does not . Stop complaining so dam much ! Your an engi! You don’t complain you find solutions!

I don’t get why so many PvE players dislike the Scrapper so much. Sure, if the function Gyro doesn’t remotely open chests (like I hope it will), that particular functionality doesn’t look great. But we are still getting a melee weapon, which means it will probably hit harder than rifle.

More importantly, those of us who like open world PvE can rejoice: we (probably) are now the fastest profession in the game! I sometimes like to race other players, and on my engi I used to lose against FGS eles and GS-sw/wh warriors, but with the leap+swiftness nerf and the massive amount of Super Speed available to us, we might take the lead.

i think the gyros will be exactly what the turrets are right now..

-high CD
-die in 2 auto attacks in sPvP
-die from a single PvE creature attack
-creatures in PvE go straight for the gyros
-AoE from creatures in PvE kill gyros in 1 hit
-traiting for gyro survivability causes them to die instead of 2 auto attacks in 3 auto attacks in sPvP but still from a single attack from a creature in PvE

and then as with turrets, anet will realize that the gyros are underwhelming after years of us complaining. they’ll then buff up the survivability so it is at least viable in sPvP. then the people who didn’t even bother to take the time to understand how to counter the gyros, like with turrets a while back, will flood the forums with complaints and then the gyros, like the turrets, will be nerfed to the ground and no one will use it again.

Calcifire.1864:

as someone who doesn’t PvP or WvW, I’m underwhelmed as hell.

the big profession mechanic is utterly useless in PvE unless there is someone dying nearby, and the elite is purely a PvP ability considering how insanely situational stealth is in PvE for non-thieves.

consider that for the elite mechanic revenants get a new legend, necros get a new death shroud, mesmers get to save-scum, and thieves get a third dodge, the ability to rez/finish someone at range is so situational outside of PvP that unless HoT adds a LOT of finishable enemies like the toxic alliance, it may as well not exist.

It is because pve right now is laughable at best. 5 man dungeons are about might stacking aoe-ing and skipping mobs optionally with aoe stealth. World events are pure pewpew. Higher level fractals are somewhat better but still mostly pewpewpew with might stacks. You might find the new spec’s utilities useful in raids.

Btw kind of new mechanics are expected too in pve. For example in Stronghold you need to finish off the pve boss like you would do a normal player in pvp. You might need to do that in certain scenarios in the pve content too, then your stomping drone will be very useful. It all comes down to what new things arenanet packs into expansion’s pve. This spec could be the absolute counter to some specific situations. Remember that GW2 is not about having a universal build for everything.

amplitudelol.1409:

Calcifire.1864:

as someone who doesn’t PvP or WvW, I’m underwhelmed as hell.

the big profession mechanic is utterly useless in PvE unless there is someone dying nearby, and the elite is purely a PvP ability considering how insanely situational stealth is in PvE for non-thieves.

consider that for the elite mechanic revenants get a new legend, necros get a new death shroud, mesmers get to save-scum, and thieves get a third dodge, the ability to rez/finish someone at range is so situational outside of PvP that unless HoT adds a LOT of finishable enemies like the toxic alliance, it may as well not exist.

It is because pve right now is laughable at best. 5 man dungeons are about might stacking aoe-ing and skipping mobs optionally with aoe stealth. World events are pure pewpew. Higher level fractals are somewhat better but still mostly pewpewpew with might stacks. You might find the new spec’s utilities useful in raids.

Btw kind of new mechanics are expected too in pve. For example in Stronghold you need to finish off the pve boss like you would do a normal player in pvp. You might need to do that in certain scenarios in the pve content too, then your stomping drone will be very useful. It all comes down to what new things arenanet packs into expansion’s pve. This spec could be the absolute counter to some specific situations. Remember that GW2 is not about having a universal build for everything.

Maybe it will be the absolute counter for some situations, but that’s actually the problem. This elite spec mechanism is the most niche of all, I think it will be useless in pve for 99% of the time.

Why PvE people are not liking this specialisation? Well because it have written PvP all over it. When I read about it I thought tanky WvW frontline.
- Multiple field activating leap finisher (not like there will be many fields in small parties → I found out that even during world bosses there is severe lack of fire fields → if I blast And there is no field with so many players there is really something wrong)
- Bot that stealth but is itself visible. The key component of “skipping” is not to be detected. If enemies detect bot then it is not use. But in WvW it is harder to see 1 small flying bot than 5-10 people hiding under it. Well I won’t mind having mortar in this place (I still prefer to carry long range weapon with me).
- long range ressing/finishing. Finishing is completely pointless (even in previous Betas there were no enemies that you need to finish – so new content don’t have it (YET)). Resing I would still call minor benefit (it not like it is very hard to res people in most places). It would be really nice If you could open chest, gather nodes, PICKUP ITEMS (conjured weapons, hammer in cliffside fractal, etc.)

It is still not That I wish it to be, But I am mildly interested. I won’t call final verdict before I test it. Previous trait changes were very disappointing for me.

gyros fuel is just another way of saying they are timed skills like turrets, however this specialization opens up so many build options .

Calcifire.1864:

as someone who doesn’t PvP or WvW, I’m underwhelmed as hell.

the big profession mechanic is utterly useless in PvE unless there is someone dying nearby, and the elite is purely a PvP ability considering how insanely situational stealth is in PvE for non-thieves.

consider that for the elite mechanic revenants get a new legend, necros get a new death shroud, mesmers get to save-scum, and thieves get a third dodge, the ability to rez/finish someone at range is so situational outside of PvP that unless HoT adds a LOT of finishable enemies like the toxic alliance, it may as well not exist.

This is my point exactly. I AM more of a pvp wvw player, but I do enjoy pve, too. So when you are alone, doing a jumping puzzle, or working map completion, or farming, functional gyro does nothing for you. It is supposed to be THE new class mechanic. The hammer and the utility gyros are just new skills. Does functional gyro in any way compare to Herald Facet of Nature? To Dare Devil dodges? To Berserk mode? To Attunement overloads? No. These are mechanics which persist and matter at all times and in all game modes. But if someone is not dying, the functional gyro does nothing?

I’ll be gracious until I see the demo. If the Functional Gyro can do other things like interact with switches or the trade post it could be super special and awesome. If all it does is stomp or rez, I still kind of like it but I see as cause to be upset.

Oh. One more thing. For kitten sake. Correct yourselves. Every other posts I read about Scrapper’s new class mechanic is “oh well I think gyros look cool.” Gyros are a skill. The Functional Gyro is the scrapper class mechanic ala Herald Facet of Nature. That is what is being debated here. I’m stoked for hammer skills and gyro skills, too. It’s the Functional Gyro class mechanic we’re worried about.