Guild Wars 2

So essentially the on demand damage output just got doubled.

6 instant burn stacks (8 considering the trait proccing as well). Cooldown is 42s traited (50s untraited) but it lasts kitten so you can prepare it for double use. Will obviously not work always but it somewhat makes the cd lower.

I actually think we might see quite a bit more FT specs running around. Still a pity that Juggernaut is garbage.

At 4 stacks it actually felt balanced. Now it’s just…….what have you done?

Dirame.8521:

At 4 stacks it actually felt balanced. Now it’s just…….what have you done?

This is a pretty shallow point of view to be honest.

They buffed burning across the board by altering the formula, enabling intensity stacking and doubling the burning of most sources. It wouldn’t have made sense to not do it for Incendiary Ammo (keep old amount) which would have made it kitten compared to for example the trait.

It makes very much sense that it applies the burn stacks now that it was supposed to apply and to be compeltely honest with you. FT needs every buff it can get. If people finally start playing some more flamethrower then this change was great.

Edit: Also it was never 4 stacks. It was 3*1 stack so 3 stacks. Usually you would generate 5 stacks due to the trait (which already provided 2 stacks). Now that IA also provides 2 stacks it will be 3*2 which means 6 stacks and 8 with the trait. 5 becomes 8 if you run flamethrower. 2 for pretty much everyone else on a 10 second cd.

I thought all they did was adjust the tool tip. Was something else changed?

Edit: I see what you mean now. It properly applies two stacks per hit now. Nice!

Dojo.1867:

Dirame.8521:

At 4 stacks it actually felt balanced. Now it’s just…….what have you done?

This is a pretty shallow point of view to be honest.

They buffed burning across the board by altering the formula, enabling intensity stacking and doubling the burning of most sources. It wouldn’t have made sense to not do it for Incendiary Ammo (keep old amount) which would have made it kitten compared to for example the trait.

It makes very much sense that it applies the burn stacks now that it was supposed to apply and to be compeltely honest with you. FT needs every buff it can get. If people finally start playing some more flamethrower then this change was great.

Shallow point of view? You’re not serious.

I’ve been playing FT since the trait revamp patch landed and it was very good on day one; so good in fact that I didn’t notice that incendiary powder was bugged. This recent patch, just made it so that people don’t even have time to react when I condi burst them. They just drop as soon as I hit 10 stacks. That’s not balanced to me. That’s not balanced to me at all.

But I’m sure some there are people out there who would gladly call this perfect balance. But I sure don’t. Might as well drop FT engies in with the Condi guards and Interrupt mesmers of the world.

Heh, funny thing is, those 3 specs are specs I was an advocate for. Made builds for them when everyone said they were crap. Now they are TOO good and I just would like them to be toned down.

I STILL think the meta is too new to start calling for nerfs unless something is stupid broken (like grenades).

Has someone made a FT build that can get within ~10% or so of the DnT PvE build for damage?

Dirame.8521:

Dojo.1867:

Dirame.8521:

At 4 stacks it actually felt balanced. Now it’s just…….what have you done?

This is a pretty shallow point of view to be honest.

They buffed burning across the board by altering the formula, enabling intensity stacking and doubling the burning of most sources. It wouldn’t have made sense to not do it for Incendiary Ammo (keep old amount) which would have made it kitten compared to for example the trait.

It makes very much sense that it applies the burn stacks now that it was supposed to apply and to be compeltely honest with you. FT needs every buff it can get. If people finally start playing some more flamethrower then this change was great.

Shallow point of view? You’re not serious.

I’ve been playing FT since the trait revamp patch landed and it was very good on day one; so good in fact that I didn’t notice that incendiary powder was bugged. This recent patch, just made it so that people don’t even have time to react when I condi burst them. They just drop as soon as I hit 10 stacks. That’s not balanced to me. That’s not balanced to me at all.

But I’m sure some there are people out there who would gladly call this perfect balance. But I sure don’t. Might as well drop FT engies in with the Condi guards and Interrupt mesmers of the world.

Heh, funny thing is, those 3 specs are specs I was an advocate for. Made builds for them when everyone said they were crap. Now they are TOO good and I just would like them to be toned down.

I was not trying to offend you personally. English is not my first language so maybe shallow was the wrong word but you said yourself that you didn’t even realize the trait was bugged. Personally I realized that pretty much during my first 5 min of trying out the new stuff. You cannot change the formula and mechanic of a condition and then adjust every single skill but one. 3*3s of burning might seem good in the old mindset we had but on a 42(50) second cooldown it really is a very small amount of burning compared to everything else in this game now. In the end FT finally does what it always was supposed to do even with just the autoattack but never really did. It burns people.

I think you are extremly overrating the stregth of that as well. This is all single target burning. If you don’t apply it properly it will be wasted on pets, illusions, minions which is actually easy given that much of engis skills have an aoe effect. Furthermore the cooldown IS 42(50) seconds at the end of the day and the stacks last only 3s untraited. It is a nice burst of single target burning on a long cooldown. That’s it.

Even with double the stacks its not very good.

I mean, you say that… but its still half the damage of one grenade barrage, single target vs barrage’s aoe, and double the cooldown..

Adamantium.3682:

Has someone made a FT build that can get within ~10% or so of the DnT PvE build for damage?

I don’t trust his numbers. they make no sense.

This was my write up on sinister.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Sinister-Pve-p-p-ft-fturret-bomb-mortar/first#post5240992

A few changes since, I have not written up. One being the IA fix.
Other being Flamejet as the replacement for fragshot.

IA is not much..
11636 over 42s CD was math before, double 223,272 over 42s.
554dps.

Throw napalm for example is 9051 burning, 1312 direct average 21s cd.
493 dps. But also AOE and a fire field.

Frag shot was 1000 wpnstr, .35 coef, vs 2600 armor
dealing av 683 damage with 1329.7 bleed per shot, .75s/a. with crit including, 25stacks of vul not.
683 direct dps.
1769ish bleed dps.
2452 combined, 3065 with vul.

Flame jet would be 967 wpnstr, .225 coef, 10 hits per 2.57s.
241/hit vs 2600 amor, 351 with crit, no vul. x10 for 3511 over 2.57s.
1366 direct dps. x1.1 burnin bonus1503
1005 burning dps.
2508 combined, 3135 with vul.

Huh, just doing the math on that. Flamejet looked much better on paper… dang. Its just “Barely”. would have more sharpshooter procs though.
Its burn is pathetic.

Casia.4281:

Adamantium.3682:

Has someone made a FT build that can get within ~10% or so of the DnT PvE build for damage?

I don’t trust his numbers. they make no sense.

Thank you for saying that. They make sense to me but I would still like to have access to an Excel file like that so I could feel better about trusting it and putting in my own numbers and rotations.

My comment should have been written more like “any FT builds that don’t get completely outclassed by a real DPS build?”.

This was my write up on sinister.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Sinister-Pve-p-p-ft-fturret-bomb-mortar/first#post5240992

A few changes since, I have not written up. One being the IA fix.
Other being Flamejet as the replacement for fragshot.

IA is not much..
11636 over 42s CD was math before, double 223,272 over 42s.
554dps.

Throw napalm for example is 9051 burning, 1312 direct average 21s cd.
493 dps. But also AOE and a fire field.

Frag shot was 1000 wpnstr, .35 coef, vs 2600 armor
dealing av 683 damage with 1329.7 bleed per shot, .75s/a. with crit including, 25stacks of vul not.
683 direct dps.
1769ish bleed dps.
2452 combined, 3065 with vul.

Flame jet would be 967 wpnstr, .225 coef, 10 hits per 2.57s.
241/hit vs 2600 amor, 351 with crit, no vul. x10 for 3511 over 2.57s.
1366 direct dps. x1.1 burnin bonus1503
1005 burning dps.
2508 combined, 3135 with vul.

Huh, just doing the math on that. Flamejet looked much better on paper… dang. Its just “Barely”. would have more sharpshooter procs though.
Its burn is pathetic.

Wow Flame Jet barely beats the friggin’ pistol auto attack!? That’s really bad. Does this take into account the Juggernaut might stacks? It also looks like Flame Jet needs numbers for bleeds, that might help.

numbers were in a pve situation with 25stacks of might, then “vul” was 25 stacks".
Yeah, a bit disappointed at that.
Serious problem with cond builds. They die out. Some strong Cooldowns, huge early boost.
That initial combo I have there, KILLS things fast. IA, napalm, flameblast(optional), throw napalm, blowtorch, static, airblast, firebomb, concbomb. That was 15 stacks of burning in like 7seconds. With all 6 IA, probably more like 20 stacks. But.. then you run out.
Need better options for sustain. PDV is ok. Mortar 1 in firefields is pretty good. (will be very good, with explosives working.) that frag shot downtime you see is awful though. Thought flamejet might preform better. but doing the math. sadly, not much. yes it will proc sharpshooter more as well. Probably only like another 50dps though. Sharpshooter is not THAT big of a deal.

Been trying to figure out if Elixir gun should be swapped in for flame turret, or even flamethower. But again, baddies say cond needs to “ramp up.” They are wrong and don’t understand both how cond work or the skills that apply them. its actually sustain and mobility they are bad at.

in totally going back to Path of exile, so might not check back in… but if you can explain some of his numbers in the spreadsheet screenshot he provided please do..
he claimed “high armor” 2600 was assumed, and what I used for may calcs.
Still don’t see how his burns were doing over 2x the damage they should have for his 920 cond damage in his zerker 17k dps build. his grenade barrage has a 2295 burn tick at the 1s mark. only incendary ammo for burns, no powder. how is 920 cond IA dealing 2295 burn damage with 3 stacks? how is Incendiary ammo ALSO dealing 8651 damage?
His kit damage seems wrong, and total damage values all around far far too high.
I didnt check all his numbers but barrage should have been like 22-26k or something too, not 32k.

Casia.4281:

numbers were in a pve situation with 25stacks of might, then “vul” was 25 stacks".
Yeah, a bit disappointed at that.
Serious problem with cond builds. They die out. Some strong Cooldowns, huge early boost.
That initial combo I have there, KILLS things fast. IA, napalm, flameblast(optional), throw napalm, blowtorch, static, airblast, firebomb, concbomb. That was 15 stacks of burning in like 7seconds. With all 6 IA, probably more like 20 stacks. But.. then you run out.
Need better options for sustain. PDV is ok. Mortar 1 in firefields is pretty good. (will be very good, with explosives working.) that frag shot downtime you see is awful though. Thought flamejet might preform better. but doing the math. sadly, not much. yes it will proc sharpshooter more as well. Probably only like another 50dps though. Sharpshooter is not THAT big of a deal.

Been trying to figure out if Elixir gun should be swapped in for flame turret, or even flamethower. But again, baddies say cond needs to “ramp up.” They are wrong and don’t understand both how cond work or the skills that apply them. its actually sustain and mobility they are bad at.

in totally going back to Path of exile, so might not check back in… but if you can explain some of his numbers in the spreadsheet screenshot he provided please do..
he claimed “high armor” 2600 was assumed, and what I used for may calcs.
Still don’t see how his burns were doing over 2x the damage they should have for his 920 cond damage in his zerker 17k dps build. his grenade barrage has a 2295 burn tick at the 1s mark. only incendary ammo for burns, no powder. how is 920 cond IA dealing 2295 burn damage with 3 stacks? how is Incendiary ammo ALSO dealing 8651 damage?
His kit damage seems wrong, and total damage values all around far far too high.
I didnt check all his numbers but barrage should have been like 22-26k or something too, not 32k.

This is why I’d like to get my hands on that file, but that’s not likely going to happen. I don’t have the time or energy to build one myself. I agree with you that the numbers are high, but all that really matters are the numbers relative to other Engi builds. If he says one build does a million damage and another does 2 million damage well even if his numbers are wrong as long as he is consistent one is twice as good as the other. I have no way of knowing that without that spreadsheet for myself though.

Adamantium.3682:

Casia.4281:

numbers were in a pve situation with 25stacks of might, then “vul” was 25 stacks".
Yeah, a bit disappointed at that.
Serious problem with cond builds. They die out. Some strong Cooldowns, huge early boost.
That initial combo I have there, KILLS things fast. IA, napalm, flameblast(optional), throw napalm, blowtorch, static, airblast, firebomb, concbomb. That was 15 stacks of burning in like 7seconds. With all 6 IA, probably more like 20 stacks. But.. then you run out.
Need better options for sustain. PDV is ok. Mortar 1 in firefields is pretty good. (will be very good, with explosives working.) that frag shot downtime you see is awful though. Thought flamejet might preform better. but doing the math. sadly, not much. yes it will proc sharpshooter more as well. Probably only like another 50dps though. Sharpshooter is not THAT big of a deal.

Been trying to figure out if Elixir gun should be swapped in for flame turret, or even flamethower. But again, baddies say cond needs to “ramp up.” They are wrong and don’t understand both how cond work or the skills that apply them. its actually sustain and mobility they are bad at.

in totally going back to Path of exile, so might not check back in… but if you can explain some of his numbers in the spreadsheet screenshot he provided please do..
he claimed “high armor” 2600 was assumed, and what I used for may calcs.
Still don’t see how his burns were doing over 2x the damage they should have for his 920 cond damage in his zerker 17k dps build. his grenade barrage has a 2295 burn tick at the 1s mark. only incendary ammo for burns, no powder. how is 920 cond IA dealing 2295 burn damage with 3 stacks? how is Incendiary ammo ALSO dealing 8651 damage?
His kit damage seems wrong, and total damage values all around far far too high.
I didnt check all his numbers but barrage should have been like 22-26k or something too, not 32k.

This is why I’d like to get my hands on that file, but that’s not likely going to happen. I don’t have the time or energy to build one myself. I agree with you that the numbers are high, but all that really matters are the numbers relative to other Engi builds. If he says one build does a million damage and another does 2 million damage well even if his numbers are wrong as long as he is consistent one is twice as good as the other. I have no way of knowing that without that spreadsheet for myself though.

Bah. had this responce, and deleted it..

Try to quickly..
damage values I believe are off a bit. Had to make some more notes.
1. was based off his faulty stats. 1960p/prec, 1557 cond. Major is 1381 isn’kitten minor 961.
This gives more cond then one should have. Thus favoring cond skills. his 17k dps zerk also has that extra 176 power too…
2. Chem rounds is a HUGE buff to pistol. the 2s base bleed, is 4s with 100% duration cap. Chem rounds breaks the cap and multiplies into it. +50% of the 4s bleed. giving a 6s bleed, or 200% condition duration.
so, chem rounds being great, and no comparable for flamejet atm… Then the stats having extra cond favors fragshot.

Flame jet will favor sinister over rabid due to its good power coeff scaling, and its weak condition duration. 2s on a 2.57skill..
Also, I made a mistake on flamejet. I forgot to add in exessive energy, shaped charge, and glass cannon, which the frag shot values had. 1.21multiplier.

Flame jet would be 967 wpnstr, .225 coef, 10 hits per 2.57s.
241/hit vs 2600 amor, 351 with crit, no vul. x10 for 3511 over 2.57s. x1.21 mods=4249
1653direct dps. x1.1 burnin bonus1818
1005 burning dps.
2824 combined, 3529dps with vul.

Dojo.1867:

So essentially the on demand damage output just got doubled.

6 instant burn stacks (8 considering the trait proccing as well). Cooldown is 42s traited (50s untraited) but it lasts kitten so you can prepare it for double use. Will obviously not work always but it somewhat makes the cd lower.

I actually think we might see quite a bit more FT specs running around. Still a pity that Juggernaut is garbage.

I love it. It actually makes me play my engi vs my other toons instead of him being the sideliner.