Guild Wars 2

22,215 in a second. Maybe less. Please explain how to counter this with no reaction time allowed?
Let me guess I didnt bring my anti thief build/traits/armor/skillzzz or I need to L2P ha

Btw a thief dared me to post it here

Thieves are broken and overpowered. This is known.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

Pavel.8531:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

This is interesting could you give me the build that burst me down that quick in a second? Id just like to see what im up against.

Also Ive seen the video on there. For spvp running things like net turret are fine but in wvw you can easily find yourself outnumbered(sometimes by a lot). Just an example.

Thief damage is high. Too high.

Helcor.9527:

Pavel.8531:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

Thief damage is high. Too high.

Didn’t you face fresh air S/D eles? or actually shatter mesmers? They’ll take you down whitout even going stealth. And necros can burst equally high these days. To say that thieves burst is op isn’t only false, it’s outdated.

dovrak.4376:

Helcor.9527:

Pavel.8531:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

Thief damage is high. Too high.

Didn’t you face fresh air S/D eles? or actually shatter mesmers? They’ll take you down whitout even going stealth. And necros can burst equally high these days. To say that thieves burst is op isn’t only false, it’s outdated.

Really? Faced a Burst mesmer today almost got me.. I had a guildie back me up and he probably would have got me if not for that BUT I can understand that due to the fact I was focused on someone else. The thief and a one second burst of 22,000 damage…. Outdated. Give me a break.

Thieves weren’t designed very thoughtfully and can be frustrating, but huge damage is not the be-all end-all. Engineers can duel them pretty well.

I’m assuming you’re in exotics—do you have toughness on your gear/traits? I’d recommend taking Protection Injection and maybe Protective shield or stabilized armor, since backstab thieves usually open with basilisk venom.

I don’t want to be “that guy” but with two traits and a slight gear change, you could probably cut those numbers by half, or more than half.

That combo (steal/C&D/Backstab) is very easy to execute but does require the thief to begin out of stealth and behind you. The best defense against glass cannon thieves is to see them before they attack you. I noticed you were attacking some mobs right before you got ganked…

Fun starts when you have 3000+ armor and the thief still does a 5k noobmode heartything

Legit Prep In.5893:

Fun starts when you have 3000+ armor and the thief still does a 5k noobmode heartything

I would cry about conditions totally bypassing armor but nah.

Thief bursts like this are far too easily predicted and countered. I see you have elixir S. That would have probably kittened the bad WvW thief right there (the vast majority of them are horrid). Toolkit gear shield if they didn’t stun you. Crate drop. Rocket turret. Net turret. Eng has a LOT of great tools against a thief and I’m not going to go into them all (would take a while).

Thieves are the least of my worries in WvW now-a-days. Once you understand thief mechanics and are able to predict them (DD is very predictable)… it becomes akin to being hit by a 100b warrior. If a 100b warrior (or any non-thief class set up for burst/roaming) would have snuck up on you while you were killing mobs… they could have done more damage and no one would call it OP.

I rarely play my thief anymore unless some one needs some yaks slapped. It’s not the best 1v1 class and it can’t be built to be as good as other classes can be for larger groups. Thief needs some diversity love.

I’ve been doing pretty well against D/P thieves lately, but once in a while one still takes me by surprise. That’s right, I said surprise. My finger hovers over my stun-breaker button while roaming most of the time. It’s usually when I’m being lazy or overconfident that the thief actually wins. My builds either use elixir S or slick shoes for stun breakers.

My other bunker small group spec doesn’t have a stun breaker but can soak up the damage until I get gear shield up. Then I lay down the CCs until I can get away. But that only works about 50% of the time because they can usually infiltrator’s strike back to me, or steal. There’s a reason I don’t typically solo roam with that spec.

Eviator.9746:

I’ve been doing pretty well against D/P thieves lately, but once in a while one still takes me by surprise. That’s right, I said surprise. My finger hovers over my stun-breaker button while roaming most of the time. It’s usually when I’m being lazy or overconfident that the thief actually wins. My builds either use elixir S or slick shoes for stun breakers.

My other bunker small group spec doesn’t have a stun breaker but can soak up the damage until I get gear shield up. Then I lay down the CCs until I can get away. But that only works about 50% of the time because they can usually infiltrator’s strike back to me, or steal. There’s a reason I don’t typically solo roam with that spec.

That’s another good point… thieves are almost always built for roaming. If you’re built for groups and you’re fighting some one 1v1 who is roaming built you should expect to lose regardless of the class (presuming somewhat equal skill levels).

a) it’s minimum 2 seconds, for sure it was a bit more. Don’t overdramatic this now pls
b) human reaction time is about 0,1 sec – don’t day dream in wvw if you are running outside of a zerg.
c) that day a thief kills me 1vs1 I will deinstall this game because I ’ve to accept I suck. Engineers can not lose against thiefs – to much counters – offensive and defensive.

a) 1.5 seconds for four skills. The above screenshot is probably longer than that
b) when a human is expecting something, they can respond in .1 seconds. In my case it’s more like .3 seconds. When a human is not expecting something reaction time can be up to a second, and if the response is not instictual it will take at least another second to figure out what to do. That’s too much time.
c) yeah right. Sure in a duel the engineer has the upper hand. But the element of surprise is what makes the thief so difficult to manage for a lot of folks. I’m still not sure about S/D thieves yet. Only encountered a few of those, and they dazed me to death.

Eviator.9746:

c) yeah right. Sure in a duel the engineer has the upper hand. But the element of surprise is what makes the thief so difficult to manage for a lot of folks. I’m still not sure about S/D thieves yet. Only encountered a few of those, and they dazed me to death.

I like how you’re ignoring the fact that this guy has 0 utilities, he’s full elixirs and isn’t even using shield to daze/knockback. After a 10k backstab he should insta elixir S, cc, heal, and kill him.
And about S/D you normally don’t run shadow arts tree, so they shouldn’t be able to daze you a lot… both S/D and D/P are x2 stronger than D/D, which is a weak set atm after continuous nerfs.

Ok without complaining much I am going to try to tell you how to counter with your build. I have no clue if he used basilisk venom on the steal but that first steal + CnD combo took like 9.3k either he is full glass or you are and likely he is. This tells me 2 things one hes glass 2 he is DD. So if I were you It would have been 9 get moving F4 0 6 if 0 didn’t get him 5 and drop my conditions on him.

Truth is thief burst can get insane. However hes playing DD so he isn’t going to perma stealth. You likely had all the utilities to beat him and messed up your execution caught with CDs or he got lucky. This type of burst is counter able to a degree. It isn’t perfect.

All that being said no class with stealth in combat should have access to that burst. Blame Anet. Thief really is bad in a zerg and even group play more than 5 on 5 it starts to lose it’s usefulness.

dovrak.4376:

Helcor.9527:

Pavel.8531:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

Thief damage is high. Too high.

Didn’t you face fresh air S/D eles? or actually shatter mesmers? They’ll take you down whitout even going stealth. And necros can burst equally high these days. To say that thieves burst is op isn’t only false, it’s outdated.

Thieves burst is OP because they can do it over and over with no danger of dying due to stealth abuse. Other classes need to commit if their combo is countered they are in the fight win or lose. Stealth mesmers can get away also but their reset time to abuse stealth is much longer then thieves they also do not have the movement skills.

Thieves don’t have OP burst. I hate to state the unpopular opinion… but it’s true. Heck I’ve been using a total glass cannon Static Discharge build lately…I’m completely squishy. Just need to be aware of your surroundings. I suggest binding “look behind” or what ever its called if you’re not in the habit of always scanning your surroundings.

Engineers have the tricks to deal with anyone i think. Best way to learn how to deal with a class is to level one.

I have been hit by thieves with those kinds of numbers and I agree it’s pretty crazy how fast they can dps you down. However, they are super easy to counter on an engineer. Gear shield or even elixir S can stop that theif opener and when they don’t see numbers, they freak out and either run or die.

I used to complain about thieves but now that I face them consistantly my win rate has gone straight up due to practice. I actually look for thieves to fight now since I have the confidence.

Phantasm mesmers and fear necros are a different story and are impossible to kill. I’d rather face thieves then those 2 builds anyday.

thats not one second and he’d die in 3 hits if you had reacted.

thieves are not as good as people make them to be, I can’t remember the last time a thief killed me, especially not a d/d one.

How people can still roll without toolkit i will never understand. Gear Shield alone
has saved me countless number of times from thieves. That being said elixer S would
have been enough for you to waste his burst and kitten him after he was done. Its been ages since a thief has won a 1v1 with me. To the extent that i find thieves to be the weakest opponents in WvW. Yes, They have a ridiculous level of burst damage, but thats all they have. If you can survive past it they are pretty much dead at your hands.

Thieves are broken. I rolled one myself to learn to counter one and found out that Thieves just have such a huge benefit from just having rolled that profession its silly.

I am by no means a good Thief, i only very recently got to 80 and went into WvW. Yet, last night i defeated 3 Thieves in WvW solo. No, they were not upleveld. And it all became clear.

Simple. Most Thieves are just terrible at this game. Absolute rubish. And that explains all the “ow i kill thieves all the time in WvW” we see. If you build to be very durable, or are skilled and have a good reaction time to counter an opening, yah you beat them. Because 9 out of 10 Thieves dont know what to do when theyr insta-gib fails.

That doesnt excuse the fact that any idiot can press two buttons and essentially gib someone. But countering this play takes a great deal more skill and experience. Its no where near the same level of play.
Just because something can be countered by being a much better player doesnt mean its balanced, infact it means the opposite.

Terrahero.9358:

Thieves are broken. I rolled one myself to learn to counter one and found out that Thieves just have such a huge benefit from just having rolled that profession its silly.

I am by no means a good Thief, i only very recently got to 80 and went into WvW. Yet, last night i defeated 3 Thieves in WvW solo. No, they were not upleveld. And it all became clear.

Simple. Most Thieves are just terrible at this game. Absolute rubish. And that explains all the “ow i kill thieves all the time in WvW” we see. If you build to be very durable, or are skilled and have a good reaction time to counter an opening, yah you beat them. Because 9 out of 10 Thieves dont know what to do when theyr insta-gib fails.

That doesnt excuse the fact that any idiot can press two buttons and essentially gib someone. But countering this play takes a great deal more skill and experience. Its no where near the same level of play.
Just because something can be countered by being a much better player doesnt mean its balanced, infact it means the opposite.

the thing is classes and builds are at a different balance state depending on the skill level.

at a lower skill level, a thief will demolish other similarly low skilled players, who generally have lower reaction times, panic, mouse click their skills, have less than ideal builds and gear, especially for a 1v1, and don’t even use a stunbreaker.

at a higher skill level things go the other way around. thieves lose all their apparent power. everyone knows how to counter a thief, players know how to avoid the opener, when to dodge cloak and dagger, when to stun or immobilize and burst, make their shadow refuge useless. in small groups (5 or less, not 1v1) it gets even worse because thieves will instantly get focused and cc’d everytime they go out of stealth and alot of times they die without even getting a hit off.

same thing happens with zomg zerker warrior rifle killshots 20k+ dmg!!11!.

the last time I got beaten by a thief in a 1v1 with any of my toons was a couple of months ago, against a s/d boon stealing thief, on my engie, in an organized duel. There was no crazy ammount of burst, those don’t kill anyone who understand the game. the fight took well over 2 mins and eventually he got me.

Now with thief sword slightly nerfed things went my way again, although it still is crazy close and I need to spam less elixirs.

my opinion anyway.

Maskaganda.2043:

Terrahero.9358:

Thieves are broken. I rolled one myself to learn to counter one and found out that Thieves just have such a huge benefit from just having rolled that profession its silly.

I am by no means a good Thief, i only very recently got to 80 and went into WvW. Yet, last night i defeated 3 Thieves in WvW solo. No, they were not upleveld. And it all became clear.

Simple. Most Thieves are just terrible at this game. Absolute rubish. And that explains all the “ow i kill thieves all the time in WvW” we see. If you build to be very durable, or are skilled and have a good reaction time to counter an opening, yah you beat them. Because 9 out of 10 Thieves dont know what to do when theyr insta-gib fails.

That doesnt excuse the fact that any idiot can press two buttons and essentially gib someone. But countering this play takes a great deal more skill and experience. Its no where near the same level of play.
Just because something can be countered by being a much better player doesnt mean its balanced, infact it means the opposite.

the thing is classes and builds are at a different balance state depending on the skill level.

at a lower skill level, a thief will demolish other similarly low skilled players, who generally have lower reaction times, panic, mouse click their skills, have less than ideal builds and gear, especially for a 1v1, and don’t even use a stunbreaker.

at a higher skill level things go the other way around. thieves lose all their apparent power. everyone knows how to counter a thief, players know how to avoid the opener, when to dodge cloak and dagger, when to stun or immobilize and burst, make their shadow refuge useless. in small groups (5 or less, not 1v1) it gets even worse because thieves will instantly get focused and cc’d everytime they go out of stealth and alot of times they die without even getting a hit off.

same thing happens with zomg zerker warrior rifle killshots 20k+ dmg!!11!.

the last time I got beaten by a thief in a 1v1 with any of my toons was a couple of months ago, against a s/d boon stealing thief, on my engie, in an organized duel. There was no crazy ammount of burst, those don’t kill anyone who understand the game. the fight took well over 2 mins and eventually he got me.

Now with thief sword slightly nerfed things went my way again, although it still is crazy close and I need to spam less elixirs.

my opinion anyway.

Then those Thieves were bad. Because Thieves have plenty of evasions and get-out-of-jail-free cards to not get chain CCd to high hell.

A bad thief will demolish a bad anything else. A good thief is still atleast a challenge to a good anything else.
Ofcourse if he is losing he can run away and simply not die.

However a good Thief is a rare sight indeed.

Elixer S. Which was on your bar.

Also, it appears you were Outnumbered. Who cares if you die then?

Attrition build won’t beat a burst build in 1v1 if you don’t have sort of disable (which you don’t, aside from crate). Run Slick Shoes and Grenade Kit. He tries to burst, pop shoes, use grenade barrage on his face, then maybe add a jump shot or something. Gg.

Elixir S, dodge as soon as over, heal, drop supply crate, kitten face. The end.

Got to be honest, I’m not sure how that build is supposed to do damage or contribute much of anything, really. But otherwise:

Drop supply crate on the thief’s head, follow up with glue shot to kill his burst, then use the med kits from the supply crate to heal up a bit before you continue to engage the thief.

That’s the most you can do, since that setup doesn’t have any control or any burst damage or any utility.

• What is your build?
• What are your primary stats (ie; Armour, Attack, Critical Chance, Condition damage, Healing)?
• Are those utilities (all elixirs) what you were using when you died?
• Where is your shield?
• Where is your toolkit?
• Why didn’t you use Elixir S?
• How did you let this happen?
• What do you think YOU can do to improve?

Before you blame the other player/profession think about what you did wrong and how you can improve your game, your gear and your build so that the next time you run into a roaming thief, you know what to do.

hint: there is a lot of good advice in this thread and the identical thread you put up on the thief forum from experienced engineers and experienced players in general that can help you improve. You can blame the game all you want, but the truth is you just failed to react, failed to build well and possibly failed to gear well. Leanr from your mistakes and improve your play.

Forestnator.6298:

c) that day a thief kills me 1vs1 I will deinstall this game because I ’ve to accept I suck. Engineers can not lose against thiefs – to much counters – offensive and defensive.

oh ok.

A good engie will never kill a decent thief that knows how to counter the engie.
- supply crate -> slow cast animation -> dodge out of the way and don`t fight there; I can wait while invi.
- elixir engie? -> heal that can be interrupted
- pistol/pistol? -> immobilize blob is slow moving and can be dodged
-> flame jet thing -> 80% of times it won`t burn me, since I`m always behind or flanking the engie.
-> poison volley? -> same as the flame atk
- FT engie? -> free kill
- bomb engie? -> watch for the big bomb
-> easiest one to flank
- elixir gun? -> easy to flank, low damage since he uses DoTs
- ST build? -> glass, won`t have to bother with anything else since he will drop from the first burst
- P/S ? -> could take a while to kill if he uses bombs too, but once his defensive CDs are spent, easy to wait for the best moment.

Just a few conclusions. As for the engie actually Killing the thief, that`s even shorter:
– condi engie build? -> stealth + heal + cleanse whenever I want
– the win does not seam to be easy -> stealth wait for the proper moment
– engage? -> yes -> nuke fast, then stealth and watch him panic and run in circles
All a good thief needs is Patience, and the knowledge of the Engie prof.
In my opinion.
– engage? -> yes but later -> fake nuke -> fake run -> stealth -> watch him spend his cooldowns ->decide how next to engage
– emgage? -> no. stealth, pick another target.
– engie got me low! I will die!? -> steath if I can, then the rest is easy.

rogerwilko.6895:

A good engie will never kill a decent thief that knows how to counter the engie.
- supply crate: cast animation => dodge out of the way
- elixir engie?= heal that can be interrupted
- pistol/pistol? => immobilize blob is slow moving and can be dodged

If only eng had some way of mitigating the thief burst… like a block or invuln or something… then also had a truckload of cc options… nah, that’ll never happen.

Aberrant.6749:

rogerwilko.6895:

…

If only eng had some way of mitigating the thief burst… like a block or invuln or something… then also had a truckload of cc options… nah, that’ll never happen.

Wow, yes and we all know that the thief burst can be anticipated and it has a loooong cooldown. Right?
You think all the thiefs stop when they see you, wait until you see them, then cloak when running to you so you can “mitigate” their burst?

How about toolkit, pistol/shield engi’s? It’s a strawman argument mate. It l depends on the individual players skill. I play both Engineer and Thief (as well as a Guardian and ranger) and I rarely have trouble fighting thieves.

A good thief is a good thief, if he’s better than me he wins, if he’s not he dies or runs like a kitten. I can’t say I’ve ever had much trouble using a flamethrower or a toolkit against a thief. Depends on the opponent. I can’t honestly remember the last time a D/D thief pulled the preloaded C&D/Mug/Backstab combo on me though, Must be nearly 3 months ago.

Take shield and that will never happen or pop your elixir S

rogerwilko.6895:

A good engie will never kill a decent thief that knows how to counter the engie.

Maybe your imagination of a “good engi” and mine are different. No other way to talk that kitten.

A good thief very much can beat any Engineer build. If you think otherwise, you’ve noyl fought bad thieves. Which isnt all that unlikely since most thieves are.

To beat a more skilled opponent, or tanky opponent, a Thief needs to have 2 things. Skill and Patience.

Two things that are actually very rare in the thief community, and even the playerbase in general. But especially in thieves its rare. Because they are so used to easily killing people. So they have no real incentive to learn to get better because the people that are actually a challenge are rare.

Yeah we can argue this till we all blue in the face but it simply boils down to Engineers have every tool in the book to deal with all situations. How you bend that statement is up to you , but if you use what you have at hand in the correct situation then even the mightiest of players will fall before you.

rogerwilko.6895:

Forestnator.6298:

c) that day a thief kills me 1vs1 I will deinstall this game because I ’ve to accept I suck. Engineers can not lose against thiefs – to much counters – offensive and defensive.

oh ok.

A good engie will never kill a decent thief that knows how to counter the engie.
- supply crate -> slow cast animation -> dodge out of the way and don`t fight there; I can wait while invi.
- elixir engie? -> heal that can be interrupted
- pistol/pistol? -> immobilize blob is slow moving and can be dodged
-> flame jet thing -> 80% of times it won`t burn me, since I`m always behind or flanking the engie.
-> poison volley? -> same as the flame atk
- FT engie? -> free kill
- bomb engie? -> watch for the big bomb
-> easiest one to flank
- elixir gun? -> easy to flank, low damage since he uses DoTs
- ST build? -> glass, won`t have to bother with anything else since he will drop from the first burst
- P/S ? -> could take a while to kill if he uses bombs too, but once his defensive CDs are spent, easy to wait for the best moment.

Just a few conclusions. As for the engie actually Killing the thief, that`s even shorter:
– condi engie build? -> stealth + heal + cleanse whenever I want
– the win does not seam to be easy -> stealth wait for the proper moment
– engage? -> yes -> nuke fast, then stealth and watch him panic and run in circles
All a good thief needs is Patience, and the knowledge of the Engie prof.
In my opinion.
– engage? -> yes but later -> fake nuke -> fake run -> stealth -> watch him spend his cooldowns ->decide how next to engage
– emgage? -> no. stealth, pick another target.
– engie got me low! I will die!? -> steath if I can, then the rest is easy.

In my opinion you are either the greatest thief or you spend most of your time daydreaming. However , i have to say it does look good on paper so i tilt my hat to you latty.

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

In my opinion you are either the greatest thief or you spend most of your time daydreaming. However , i have to say it does look good on paper so i tilt my hat to you latty.

He’s part right if using Sword/Dagger, but even there, you’d just need to expect a draw as the scheme goes: Thief attacks and deals damage, Engies ends up smashing Thief to oblivion, Thief flees to heal, Engie just heals. Even Med Kit builds provide enough stuff survivability against that kind of gameplay. Engie packs both CC and reliable damage which makes them more likely to scare Thieves off, especially if gadget based.

rogerwilko.6895:

Forestnator.6298:

c) that day a thief kills me 1vs1 I will deinstall this game because I ’ve to accept I suck. Engineers can not lose against thiefs – to much counters – offensive and defensive.

oh ok.

A good engie will never kill a decent thief that knows how to counter the engie.
- supply crate -> slow cast animation -> dodge out of the way and don`t fight there; I can wait while invi.
- elixir engie? -> heal that can be interrupted
- pistol/pistol? -> immobilize blob is slow moving and can be dodged
-> flame jet thing -> 80% of times it won`t burn me, since I`m always behind or flanking the engie.
-> poison volley? -> same as the flame atk
- FT engie? -> free kill
- bomb engie? -> watch for the big bomb
-> easiest one to flank
- elixir gun? -> easy to flank, low damage since he uses DoTs
- ST build? -> glass, won`t have to bother with anything else since he will drop from the first burst
- P/S ? -> could take a while to kill if he uses bombs too, but once his defensive CDs are spent, easy to wait for the best moment.

Just a few conclusions. As for the engie actually Killing the thief, that`s even shorter:
– condi engie build? -> stealth + heal + cleanse whenever I want
– the win does not seam to be easy -> stealth wait for the proper moment
– engage? -> yes -> nuke fast, then stealth and watch him panic and run in circles
All a good thief needs is Patience, and the knowledge of the Engie prof.
In my opinion.
– engage? -> yes but later -> fake nuke -> fake run -> stealth -> watch him spend his cooldowns ->decide how next to engage
– emgage? -> no. stealth, pick another target.
– engie got me low! I will die!? -> steath if I can, then the rest is easy.

Pretty funny. You must spend a lot of time ganking really bad Engis. It’s OK, I do the same thing on my Thief especially since I main Engi.

You’re pretty off with your stuff too. One example is talking about bombs and only mentioning Big ol Bomb. Lol the least of your worries….a good Engi isn’t going to sit there and let you mess with them, especially if they have bombs. They will stealth when you stealth and then open up on you first. I do it to thieves every day.

Funny too how you mention how easy the Elixir H heal is to interrupt but fail to mention how hilariously easy it is to interrupt a Thief casting Hide in the Shadows – the heal that cleanses.

I could probably tear apart the entire thing but that would take a while.

rogerwilko.6895:

- elixir gun? -> easy to flank, low damage since he uses DoTs

You keep on thinking that.

Velron.3729:

rogerwilko.6895:

Forestnator.6298:

c) that day a thief kills me 1vs1 I will deinstall this game because I ’ve to accept I suck. Engineers can not lose against thiefs – to much counters – offensive and defensive.

oh ok.

A good engie will never kill a decent thief that knows how to counter the engie.
- supply crate -> slow cast animation -> dodge out of the way and don`t fight there; I can wait while invi.
- elixir engie? -> heal that can be interrupted
- pistol/pistol? -> immobilize blob is slow moving and can be dodged
-> flame jet thing -> 80% of times it won`t burn me, since I`m always behind or flanking the engie.
-> poison volley? -> same as the flame atk
- FT engie? -> free kill
- bomb engie? -> watch for the big bomb
-> easiest one to flank
- elixir gun? -> easy to flank, low damage since he uses DoTs
- ST build? -> glass, won`t have to bother with anything else since he will drop from the first burst
- P/S ? -> could take a while to kill if he uses bombs too, but once his defensive CDs are spent, easy to wait for the best moment.

Just a few conclusions. As for the engie actually Killing the thief, that`s even shorter:
– condi engie build? -> stealth + heal + cleanse whenever I want
– the win does not seam to be easy -> stealth wait for the proper moment
– engage? -> yes -> nuke fast, then stealth and watch him panic and run in circles
All a good thief needs is Patience, and the knowledge of the Engie prof.
In my opinion.
– engage? -> yes but later -> fake nuke -> fake run -> stealth -> watch him spend his cooldowns ->decide how next to engage
– emgage? -> no. stealth, pick another target.
– engie got me low! I will die!? -> steath if I can, then the rest is easy.

Pretty funny. You must spend a lot of time ganking really bad Engis. It’s OK, I do the same thing on my Thief especially since I main Engi.

You’re pretty off with your stuff too. One example is talking about bombs and only mentioning Big ol Bomb. Lol the least of your worries….a good Engi isn’t going to sit there and let you mess with them, especially if they have bombs. They will stealth when you stealth and then open up on you first. I do it to thieves every day.

Funny too how you mention how easy the Elixir H heal is to interrupt but fail to mention how hilariously easy it is to interrupt a Thief casting Hide in the Shadows – the heal that cleanses.

I could probably tear apart the entire thing but that would take a while.

Yeah, this guy is going to face a good one and then QQ on the thief board about how OP engineers are. Lol.

Elixir S. Problem solved.

dovrak.4376:

Helcor.9527:

Pavel.8531:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

Thief damage is high. Too high.

Didn’t you face fresh air S/D eles? or actually shatter mesmers? They’ll take you down whitout even going stealth. And necros can burst equally high these days. To say that thieves burst is op isn’t only false, it’s outdated.

Unimportant, it’s well known that other classes can burst just as much as the thief. If you can, name one that can do so from a state where it can neither be attacked nor defended against.

And this guy didn’t even get the worst of it, there are thief builds that easily do a 9-11000 damage opening crit and still have enough stealth skills to constantly reset the fight if they are losing.

I run 2900 armor and never seem to have problems with theives unless there are more than 1. also your build would benefit quiet a bit with a kit and shield since u are wvw. thieves are easily countered by pressing 5 with shield equiped

Ehragus.5843:

Elixir S. Problem solved.

It is actually a bit more complicated than that. Elixir S can save you from the follow up burst, but without control or counter pressure a thief will just walk right over you.

You need something that can mess the thief up. Tool kit to sustain block and counter with prybar for surprisingly high damage, bomb kit to cripple and cause a blind field (counter stealth + counter ambush) grenades to chill and blind and explode Shadow Refuge, the rifle for control + burst damage at point blank range, turrets for locking down and sustaining low-maintenance offense, rocket boots + slick shoes for escaping…

You need something to fight back with. The biggest problem with the utilities and weapon set in that image is that he has nothing to fight back with. No hard control, no counter-burst damage, very little soft control, very little defenses, no movement skills, not even high sustained damage. That set is gank-bait, and can probably be outplayed by a shortbow thief that doesn’t bother to go into stealth.

I’ll state another unpopular opinion here:

Engies are better equipped than most professions to fight against Thieves, but it all depends on the two builds. There have even been tournaments to back up this notion.

And this whole notion of a “good thief will always beat and Engie”, to me, reads more like… a good player will always beat a player that isn’t as good as him. In other words, if he was that good with the Thief, he would probably be able to beat you even if he chose a different profession.

At the moment, the only thing that is truly over the top with Thieves is certain builds can pretty much always get away from you before they die, which means they always get to fight on their terms. Their burst damage, itself, it usually not the issue with these builds. The build shown in the pic above was most likely a glass backstab thief, and they are usually one of the easiest to kill now, assuming gear is comparable.

aydenunited.5729:

I’ll state another unpopular opinion here:

Engies are better equipped than most professions to fight against Thieves, but it all depends on the two builds. There have even been tournaments to back up this notion.

And this whole notion of a “good thief will always beat and Engie”, to me, reads more like… a good player will always beat a player that isn’t as good as him. In other words, if he was that good with the Thief, he would probably be able to beat you even if he chose a different profession.

At the moment, the only thing that is truly over the top with Thieves is certain builds can pretty much always get away from you before they die, which means they always get to fight on their terms. Their burst damage, itself, it usually not the issue with these builds. The build shown in the pic above was most likely a glass backstab thief, and they are usually one of the easiest to kill now, assuming gear is comparable.

Completely agree. We have more traits and skills than most to specifically deal with thieves. The “I” trait in toughness specifically procs protection for 3 seconds on a critical attack.

If there was a MORE specific trait that was to counter thieves, I have no idea what it would be, except for pairing it with one of our cripple trait.

Edit: I almost forgot, with food (in WvW) and 2 traits, we have -73% damage reduction for a few seconds when stunned, so basilisk poison is somewhat hilarious. They try to do 20k damage, they only do 5k and you hit #5 shield skill, drop your supply crate and start beating on them.

Make sure and spam /laugh, and stay next to your net turret for more hilarity.

OP let it be known that thieves with that kind of damage go down just as fast as they can take you down, if not faster. I guarantee that all it would have taken to beat that thief was a few conditions (Hint Hint, You’re an Engi, use AoEs). The build he is using is quite common, its a D/D backstab build, meaning, you should literally watch your back. It’s extremely simple to counter if you know the mechanics of a thief, i suggest playing one for a bit in sPvP if they are that much of a problem for you.

By no means are thieves “OP”, that power comes with a cost….
I love hearing that thieves are OP from a bunch of Engis…. Prob one of the most OP classes in the game, whether you believe it or not.

Oh, and i play both classes, so i believe i know what i’m talking about.