Guild Wars 2

I can understand why you would reverse the change for gyros CDs, but the way you handled it seems right. We will see ingame if gyros are reactive enough but it seems promising.
Thanks for adding a stunbreak. I don’t really like the blast gyro, but well, again, I understand why you would put it on this one.

More rapid button presses is the answer. I lile this change.

But what about blast gyro? The whole tag thing is awful. It cannot be landed consistently. It should be a blast finisher. And also shouldn’t detonate blast gyro achieve the launch? Shouldn’t blast gyro thro down final salvo on death?

Bypass coating is garbage. Why take it? Better to tale slick shoes for sure. Please rethink bypass coating. Maybe make it shadowste somehow? Hence “bypass.”

Function Gyro is most of the time wasted when we stomp at the normal stomp range, espacially with using the Stabilization Core trait.

My suggestion is at least make it optional and not activate it automaticly on the normal stomp range.

I also agree that stunbreaker on the Bypass Coating is like making it another Slick Shoes, Bulwark gyro toolbelt can use a stunbreak more.

I really think the changes so far will do a lot to encourage players to consider using gyros. The quality of life changes for Hammer are outstanding and very welcome as well.

I will disagree with many people who may not see the value of having a stun breaker on Bypass Coating. I think that players may eventually see the value in this change once this Elite Specialization goes live. At the same time I hope that the unmentioned systemic changes will benefit Blast Gyro so that it survives better to deliver it’s payload or at least be more likely to force the enemy to use a dodge roll or block rather than ignore it and continue their rotation.

Great stuff so far! All very much appreciated!

I think I still prefer rifles over hammers simply because they’re ranged instead of melee. Already have Flamethrower for melee type attacks and it synergizes well with Mass Momentum. As for gyros they’re gonna be crap compared to what we have no matter how much you try to address them. The very simple issue is that they’re controlled by the AI instead of you directly. Not to mention gyros have a short time limit AND a health bar when they should have either one OR the other. Would prefer time limit to remain and removal of health bar completely. Give them invulnerable buff or something till you can address this after launch.

I must say, however, the traits are well done to have some synergy with other engineer skills that we currently already use. Would like a slightly longer might duration on Mass Momentum and slightly more boon duration from taking this elite spec at all.(much like how taking Tools improves recharge on toolbelt)

Why doesn’t Blast Gyro crit? It felt very weak in the beta, and engi isn’t exactly lacking CC skills.

Korra wrote a great post, please read through that one.

In regard of the scrapper mechanic i realize that it’s hard to implement a new click to activate feature since f1-5 skills are already in use. I see that other classes have a elite spec that compliment their class mechanic (e.g. Necro shroud ele attunement overload) so i don’t see why engi needs to be an exception with the lame function bot.

In order for this to work without adding a f6 skill, which i don’t see the point in, i think the addition could be either gained passivly or activated when using toolbelt skills.

For the passive one i was thinking the function gyro could be hpless minion until activated, with a fuelbar.
Fuel is gained with attatcks (like Necro) but this bar should have 4 milestones at 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%.
At 0% fuel the gyro is lazy and attatcks every 5th second for each 25% gained the gyro’s attatcks will be 1 second faster, note that this attatcks should be low damage. The fuel bar will drain out of combat and level of fuel will affect the efficiency when activated. So at 100% the finisher might be as fast as a player finish. I was thinking the fuel could do a burst heal when reviving thus might actually be able to save someone.

For the active suggestion the purpose was minded to enchance the toolbelt mechanic and still keep the gyro theme, i imagine the possibility of spawning gyros on toolbelt skill use.
Since the cooldown range a lot depending on which toolbelt skill is being used, the gyro durarion will be matched accordingly.

I also think you could have the option of self-revive using the last downed slot with the function gyro

I know no major changes will happen before launch and that’s fine but you won’t get away with leaving engi in its current state. The function gyro finish/revive is a nice gimmick but nothing more so keep it but add a something more to the scrapper! There are many good suggestions on the engi forum so listen to the community and accept that your current function gyro is nowhere near the level of other elite specs.

Korra.4251:

Hey, I’m so glad to see the increase in communication, having solid information goes a long long way to help resolve fears for the class, as it helps rest the worst case scenarios that the mind dreams up. While I am an avid fan of the game and our wonderful devs, a lot of personal anxiety has stopped me in the past from joining the discussion. Fears of putting my passion and opinion out for all to judge paralyze me, and leave me hoping that others will manage to express my concerns. With that said, I can barely even imagine what it would be like to expose your work as a designer to the vitriol that comes out of forums. I work to keep that in mind, because I admit I had to rewrite this post a couple times to ensure I wasn’t adding lethal doses of salt. I care about the game enough that it’s got the potential to work me up, and I know the devs must care even more so. I really hope both that my voice is heard, but more than that, I hope that it’s helpful, and truly constructive feedback, because we all want the same thing, to continue the guildwars way of being one of if not the most innovative game of its kind.
+many hooray for hammer changes
+1 for Impact Savant change
- Gyro changes sound good and in the right direction. Would still prefer not ai, but if that’s what we got. They’re moving towards what they need to be. I can actually see a full gyro build being a real thing.
- the trait Final Salvo needs a re-examination. This is not strictly because there is anything wrong with it, but rather because the dynamic of the gyros no longer fits with it as the gyro interaction/support trait. Gyros now seem to be developing a much more solid identity as a passive bonus that is activated for a short time, and is POWERFUL at the cost of duration limit and the ability to kill the source. As ever, tuning may be required.
- still no stun breaker?
- gyro destruct effects are still in a weird place. They are highly fit for the blast and shredder, and decent for the bulwark. For the others, they feel odd, as while you receive nice things on death, they aren’t the nice things you need, and don’t really apply. Akin to being given salty food while stranded without water at sea. The thought is appreciated, but isn’t what was really needed at the moment
-super speed is fun, and while I was skeptical about how useful it would be, the vale guardian is all ready proving its worth. Issues included wasted interactions due to it not stacking, and being overshadowed/overwritten by application from other sources ie; the revenant/herald. Also would seem to limit the number of scrapers to a max of 1 in 5 for any given content, as they would step on each other’s toes per say.
+1 Medic Gyro sounds great, and atm, has a bright future as a real alternative to the Omni present healing turret, hinged upon good play.
- Purge Gyro is TBD, hinged on improved functionality. Tool belt is very “eh” and unfit mechanically. A light field would be fitting, as it could combo with the shredder for more condi cleanse.
- Shredder Gyro is interesting, possibly under tuned, possibly misunderstood, somewhat underwhelming at the moment. Double whirl finisher a la the warrior double leap finisher as an interesting experiment? I feel that it has incredible potential (the gyro, not my kitten suggestion). So far in discussions I’ve only seen this theorized to be light space control and/or burst condition application. I could see with higher tuning it providing incredible condition cleanse, aoe blind lockdown, and potentially synergy with medic gyro to increase the healing potential to the hands down best healing skill combo.
-Blast Gyro is fun, but potentially just unusable. The counter play/potential points of failure are just too numerous, the reward too low for it, and it is mechanically disjoint, as it lacks the dynamic of reward for keeping it alive.
Possible change -Something akin to a gyro rocket/thumper turret, a floating shooting deal that tracks/follows/shoots the target tagged for its duration would be more appropriate as it retains all of the current counter play options but increases reliability and deals with a number of unintended points of failure (for example; the gyro doesn’t always spawn near enough to you to provide support for it, and the path it travels based on spawn makes thoughtful combos impossible to set up). also cool I don’t care how salty anyone is over gyros, a gyro that releases smaller explosive gyros is the most amazing thing, like a gun that shoots smaller guns.
+1 Bulwark Gyro was already quite good and enjoyable. Increased QoL is always welcome
- SNEAK GYRO -
Tool belt is cray cray powerful. Like purge, this will live or die by the improved functionality. My new understanding of the skill and the stealth application interval is that your supposed to be a Nika backup/equivalent, flashing in and out of stealth while in a combat scenario. Not a huge fan, but significantly cooler than being an elite skill that makes you a bad Mesmer.
MAJOR CONCERN: both skills feel less like general complements to the spec, and more like specific answers to individual scenarios. Good cause reason to take scrapper. Bad cause it feels bad if you aren’t needed because your good, but because your the only person with the win button required for a couple specific encounters.
- FUNCTION GYRO -
Should honestly have its own thread. I could write a small thesis of my thoughts on it. It is strictly an improvement. It feels deeply underwhelming when held up to other classes. It sits in a bizarre gap of perspective, as it is something that can literally only be understood as a flat out and powerful new tool/buff for the class, but inspires only feelings of jealousy, anger, resentment and betrayal (for me at least, and I suspect a fair number of others) when compared to the breathtaking changes available to other classes. It makes sense thematically and mechanically, and yet could be honestly construed to not change the class in any meaningful sense.
My end take on it, I turn to the dark side, I trust my feelings, I know them to be true. I think that the function gyro is insufficient as a mechanic, and under the current paradigm of use, with one at a time, targetable, and literally only two applications that may not even see real use in PVE content (this is a weird thing, as it acts as a safety net, rendered useless if your group plays well, as you shouldn’t need to res anyone, in person or by bot). Under those restrictions, there is no amount of tuning that will fix this, a mechanic that is barely more than a ranger utility skill. Additionally, it renders the master minor (Decisive Renown) hilariously irrelevant for PVE, 1v1 scenarios and the like.
This is also especially irksome, as it was announced that the Druid class mechanic, would receive an overhual despite its largely warm reception, but that there isn’t time for a engineer re-examination. The criticism of the sneak gyro I made I feel applies to the function gyro as well, the option is nice, the concept is limited and it just feels awful because the it is a set use tool, without the ability to improve upon or exploit the performance by way of gameplay, and indeed creates a tension where scrapers are valued not for their skill but a specific and limiting set of options, that as far as we know, aren’t even useful enough in a PVE setting to justify running! The vale guardian kill engineers were more often then not, not even bothering to run scrapper!
I cannot stress enough how much the flair aspect of the mechanic is integral to the visceral dissatisfaction I feel. A lot of work and love went into the reaper shroud and the Druid cele form. The guardian virtues all make use of more active mechanics and new technology. The berserker and daredevil mechanics are interwoven on an almost second to second level with their gameplay to creat a uniquely different play style. The herald and the chronomancer mechanics are awe inspiring in their game wide potential to shift combat and maximize the class. And while I do not doubt that great effort was put into the engineer and the scrapper, and absolutely recognize that the versatility of the tool belt limited the possibilities for the new mechanic, the function gyro just does not hold up in comparison. Not in terms of interaction with self and other class mechanics, not in terms use from moment to moment, not in terms of unique function and not in terms pure shiny wow factor. I don’t care if the game ships in the scrappers current state, all I need to hear is that the scrapper development cycle will continue full steam after release, not just in monitoring for balance like you would for any new class, but actively working as if we were still in beta.

^
This is I think the best feedback posted on the forum, in terms of feelings, completeness, critics and possible ways of improvement. A must read, waiting for an answer in particular from Irenio for the last sentence.

I like most these changes but I wish some traits could be changed a bit I feel the lighting field on final salvo should stay but remove the superspeed portion and turn the on gryo death into a aoe burst heal too help keep the sustain feel that can be mixed with rapid regen. I feel perfectly weighted could use a change as well to be the main superspeed trait mabye something like when you evade an attack gain superspeed for 3 sec while effected by superspeed gain one stack of stability for 3 sec with a 1 sec interval. Idk just a few ideas.

Another idea was to decisive renown to be useful in pve as well as PvP wouldn’t mind seeing us gaining the buff when a gryo is killed or detonated keeping the 10 sec icd so it’s not just limited to rezzing or stomping even making it apply the buff on say gaining an aura,blastfinisher wouldn’t be so bad either since almost ever engineer build has access to that and allows you to get the buffs on demand. The original superspeed trait could be changed up too fall in line with superspeed perhaps by giving a flat duration buff and removing conditions each sec while effected by it.

Giving the Blast Gyro a Blast finisher would also help making that gyro more worthwhile, even in PvE.

And yeah… detonating the gyros also being blast finishers would make that option more attractive.

So it’s back to summon + blast medic gyro again huh? … your designers should think about the whole system again please.

I have a few ideas which might make some of the currently less appealing gyros more useful in all combat modes. Some might be a bit crazy or op but still lets face it they do need improvement . The improvements I suggest are the kind that don’t change functionality and only tweak numbers. This should be possible to implement before the expansion is released. Here they are:

Function Gyro – I know people are saying that the profession mechanic’s use is limited but there are a few ways this can be improved without introducing new functionalities or animations. First reduce the cooldown of the mechanic to 0. That’s right 0 seconds. Second give this thing full on invulnerability buff for 10 seconds i.e its entire duration. Third remove the ability for scrapper to revive or finish off enemies without the gyro. This ensures that we are the only class to have a proper ranged finisher and it gives us a 0 cooldown ranged revival too. I know this has no counterplay in pvp but lets face it this thing already has a longer cast time than if players finished/revived. So it shouldnt have any counterplay.

Bulwark Gyro – Give this thing like 20-25k health. May seem a bit much but gyros have a time limit after all so that can be shortened a little bit for balance, like say, 10 seconds instead of 15 seconds.

Shredder Gyro – Unlike the other gyros this one doesn’t follow you around. It exists mostly as a whirl finisher that lasts for 12 seconds. Problem is whirl finishers aren’t all that great right now except for the cleansing and blinding bolts. Best way to make it more useful is to improve its damage from like 27 per second to like 150 per second. That would add an area denial functionality as well as the whirl finishers. The counterplay is obviously destroying the gyro from out of its range.

Blast gyro tag – Now this skill as it is fails all across the board. It fails as a utility skill because it moves extremely slowly. It fails as a damage skill because of the low damage. And the toolbelt skill is nothing compared to some others that engineer already has. And worst of all it can’t hit critically. Its probably too late for the toolbelt skill right now, however the gyro itself can be improved quite easily to have an “unique” functionality in all combat modes. Increase the damage of this skill to 20000 damage. Yes, 20000 damage for insta down on a lot of player builds and trash mobs. This gives the blast gyro an unique functionality that NO OTHER SKILL has. In exchange make this skill have an activation time of 3 seconds as opposed to what it has now (0.5 seconds). And increase the cooldown to 45 seconds. After the expansion releases maybe you can also add a tell to the skill animation so it can be easily identified. Another form of counterplay simply includes not being where the gyro was targeted when it hits. It does move slowly after all and it is ground targeted as opposed to having an attack target. Finally it can also be destroyed from range before it hits. For a skill with so many counterplays it is only fair that the damage be compensated to 20000 when it does hit.

Sneak Gyro – Improve the stealth duration from 4 seconds per pulse to 6 seconds per pulse. Makes it more viable to use and puts it somewhat on par with thieves’ Shadow Refuge. Albeit you having to wait 30 seconds for the gyro to go away first.

Now some of these ideas might seem to be overpowering the engineer/scrapper but lets face it the developer’s job first is to make their work appealing to the playerbase THEN balance it out after the player feedback. Right now as it is the scrapper isn’t appealing in anyway as an alternative to the specializations we already have. In fact it seems like we are being nerfed a lot if we take gyros as any utility skill in PvE without much to gain for it. So please post your feedback on these simple ideas that can be implemented without changing the skills in major ways.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

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Edit to add additional post for visibility:

Due to a design discussion that arose yesterday the recharge on gyros are going back to starting on the death of the gyro.

To help with the recharge going back to the gyro death the recharge themselves are being dramatically reduced. Below is a before and after to help clarify what is happening.

On Cast Medic Gyro CD: 35s
On Cast Medic Gyro Duration: 14s
CD at full duration: 21s
New Medic Gyro CD on Death: 20s

On Cast Purge/Bulwark CD: 35s
On Cast Duration: 15s
CD at full duration: 20s
New Gyro CD on Death: 20s

On Cast Sneak Gyro CD: 45 seconds, because they’re not cute and furry.
On Cast Duration: 30s
CD at full duration: 15s
New Sneak Gyro CD: 20s

This amounts to an overall buff to gyro recharge as the net recharge time is reduced on all gyros except sneak gyro, which is effectively a buff if the sneak gyro would have been destroyed anytime before the final five seconds of its duration.

Blast Gyro’s toolbelt skill, Bypass Coating, is going to be a stunbreak.

Is this

Is this a joke?

You know, April was a few months back right?

It’s just so disappointing … they made a GREAT decision… and then they poop all over it again… T_T

I think thats the point. They dont what that we have perma pets or pets that do something useful. For example look at the turrets they were nice before the patch still a few thing fixable but still useful and skills you could put inside your bar now they are death skills no one wants them.
The first changed changings would have meant that you coudl have mostly all gyros up all the time so that you had useful followers (expect the worst KI I have ever seen).
Seems to me they took the easy why on the rechanging instead of putting brainpower on this problem.

And like Irenio CalmonHuang said in the changing note that they dont have time to rework the mehcnaic before the release.

Xyonon.3987:

It’s just so disappointing … they made a GREAT decision… and then they poop all over it again… T_T

You do realize that this is a improvement, right?

After the first fix, when their cd’s were changed to start on summon, you’d need to wait 35seconds to summon f.e. bullwark again, and only get down to around 20sec downtime IF he survived the full duration. If he died right after summon, you’d have needed to wait 35 seconds until you could summon it again…

Now you only have to wait 20sec to summon it again, regardless when it dies, and if it lives for the full duration, you STILL just have the 20sec downtime…
CD-wise this is a great buff for all gyros, even the sneak gyro. It was on a 45sec cd, meaning that it had a potential downtime of 45sec if it died right after summon, now it’s on a 20sec cd, regardless how later or soon it dies.

For all gyros, this is a great deal of added reliability.
Thx Irenio

Whatever their cooldown and uptime is, if they can’t do what they’re supposed to do when we call them, they will be useless.
And to do that they need to survive enough time.
Guess we have to hope in this mysterious “systemic change”.
If it makes them sturdy enough, then it will likely be fine. Otherwise, it will be a wasted slot. They may even have a 20s cooldown, but if they can’t stay alive more than a couple seconds, there won’t be much use for them.

benai.8653:

I think thats the point. They dont what that we have perma pets or pets that do something useful. For example look at the turrets they were nice before the patch still a few thing fixable but still useful and skills you could put inside your bar now they are death skills no one wants them.
The first changed changings would have meant that you coudl have mostly all gyros up all the time so that you had useful followers (expect the worst KI I have ever seen).
Seems to me they took the easy why on the rechanging instead of putting brainpower on this problem.

And like Irenio CalmonHuang said in the changing note that they dont have time to rework the mehcnaic before the release.

Dunno what you’ve read somewhere, but to no times any gyro was supposed to be out permanently.
They always had a uptime much shorter than their cd’s. the initial problem was that they had really high cd’s, often twice or 3 times as much as their uptime.
Sneak gyro f.e. had a 30sec uptime & a 30sec cd, leaving it with a 50/50 up/downtime.

After the first fix, all gyro cd’s started on summon, so a bullwark gyro with a 35second cd & a 15sec utime would have a effective downtime of 20sec, IF he lived for the full duration. If it got destroyed earlier, its cd would increase, in the worst case up to 35 seconds – again.

So now, after the 2nd fix, it has a fixed 20sec cd, regardless how soon or late it gets destroyed, but it will still self-destruct after 15 seconds, like it always did.

Too long,I don’t understand:

Fix 1: cd’s start on summon, effectively cutting down the cd of most gyros by 33% / if they survive for full duration, even by 50%

Fix 2: cd’s are back to start on death, but cut by 50% for most gyros

Final Effect, compared to pre-fix 1:
way shorter cd’s for all gyros, and a way more predictable cd if you blow them up / more frequent procs of the final salvo trait, since you now can summon & blow up a gyro every 20sec, compared to the old 35-45sec.

Arantheal.7396:

Xyonon.3987:

It’s just so disappointing … they made a GREAT decision… and then they poop all over it again… T_T

You do realize that this is a improvement, right?

Yea I do. It’s a straight up buff wich makes me doubt the core design about skills like gyros, spirit weapons / elementals, minions, turrets, mantras or ranger spirits.
I’m not saying we should be able to keep up 100% companion duration. But it’s simply not correct to have the same CD for a skill when it had it’s full duration of an effect or just got disabled. It makes you not care about them at all.

For example medic gyro: It now has a 20 sec CD, lasts 14 sec and heals ~4500 + 800/3 over 14 sec.

So now if I summon the gyro and blow it up right away, I’ve got a neat 5300 heal every 20 sec. This equals 265 HP/s.
If I summon it and protect it for it’s full duration, It’ll take 14 sec to heal me 8500 and has a 20 sec CD after that. This equals 250 HP/s.

You see the mistake there? I want to blow it up right away, so I have more spike heals and more HP per sec. But If I don’t who cares …

If the CD would be 25 for example, starting on summon, you get REWARDED for keeping it up. Or rather the other way around, the enemy gets REWARDED for killing it. The current version is just a cute decoration without any meaning if it’s alive or not. And THAT is the design flaw I hate so much.

So ANet, tell me your thoughts on that design step … backwards :/

if you have final salvo as trait, this is the decisions you can make to use it:

1.) I can summon it, get a spike heal for myself & then blow it up to get superspeed & a lightning field. I can do this frequently every 20sec

2.) I can summon it and let it stay out. It will heal me & my allies, increasing my group-support. After it ends eventually, we all get a lightning field & pulsing superspeed. I only need to wait 20 seconds until I can continue healing my group.

3.) I can summon it for myself & keep it out. It will heal me & my other gyros, increasing their uptime, and then still give me a lighting field & superspeed at the end. It will continue healing my gyros after 20sec, which – if i time it right – also matches their cd.

None of the above options are a huge impact on its raw healing, allowing it to perform reliably in various situations, regardless how it is handled. The fact that blowing it up pre-emptively does not come along with a huge pnishment allows for viable & smart use of its on-death effects.

Dunno what salt you had today, but a universally useful skill, reliably fulfilling its role in various situation, sounds like good design for me.

Xyonon.3987:

Arantheal.7396:

Xyonon.3987:

It’s just so disappointing … they made a GREAT decision… and then they poop all over it again… T_T

You do realize that this is a improvement, right?

Yea I do. It’s a straight up buff wich makes me doubt the core design about skills like gyros, spirit weapons / elementals, minions, turrets, mantras or ranger spirits.
I’m not saying we should be able to keep up 100% companion duration. But it’s simply not correct to have the same CD for a skill when it had it’s full duration of an effect or just got disabled. It makes you not care about them at all.

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For example medic gyro: It now has a 20 sec CD, lasts 14 sec and heals ~4500 + 800/3 over 14 sec.

So now if I summon the gyro and blow it up right away, I’ve got a neat 5300 heal every 20 sec. This equals 265 HP/s.
If I summon it and protect it for it’s full duration, It’ll take 14 sec to heal me 8500 and has a 20 sec CD after that. This equals 250 HP/s.

You see the mistake there? I want to blow it up right away, so I have more spike heals and more HP per sec. But If I don’t who cares …

If the CD would be 25 for example, starting on summon, you get REWARDED for keeping it up. Or rather the other way around, the enemy gets REWARDED for killing it. The current version is just a cute decoration without any meaning if it’s alive or not. And THAT is the design flaw I hate so much.

So ANet, tell me your thoughts on that design step … backwards :/

this issue is just a matter of numbers and not a matter of a flaw in the core concept of cd starting at use vs cd starting on death.

if it were ~tripled to 1600 hp every 2 sec, you wouldnt be complaining about losing hps by leaving it out. and thats exactly what needs to happen — the medic needs to be a target your enemy wants to kill, because by leaving it up you gain a huge advantage.

if its too problematic with sneak stealthing both the engi and the medic, reveal the medic too.

To be fair, the “reward” of keeping it alive longer is being able to use the effects longer.

Adding onto my last post I feel Stabilization core is a good trait, But I feel expert examination should be swapped with it and it should be given an upgrade to effect all gyros rather than just function gyro the boon part should be given too you,gyros,and allies in a short aoe range
Function gyro-two stacks of stability for 8sec on summon
Blast gyro-5 stacks of might on summon
Bulwark gyro-protection for x sec on summon
Purge gyro- Resistance for x sec on summon
Shredder gyro-This ones a bit tougher but quickness i feel would be a decent boon
Stealth gyro-Aegis for x sec
Medic gyro- A mix of Regen and vigor or a decent amount of either one.

This way expert examination can still be used with the gyros to provide the weakness and vuln on gyro death or detonation.

Adamantium.3682:

To be fair, the “reward” of keeping it alive longer is being able to use the effects longer.

my point is that its not a reward right now, its detrimental. it can easily be made to be rewarding.

the same is true of healing turret, except its even more exaggerated. if the overcharge cd was cut in 1/2 to about 8 secs, it would be “just as” rewarding to leave it out and keep it alive, because you would gain condi clearing and water fields while not really losing hps. with its numbers as it is, it is unquestionable that the best course of action of the 3 choices is to never leave it out and to choose between exploding and picking up asap depending on the fight.

insanemaniac.2456:

Adamantium.3682:

To be fair, the “reward” of keeping it alive longer is being able to use the effects longer.

my point is that its not a reward right now, its detrimental. it can easily be made to be rewarding.

the same is true of healing turret, except its even more exaggerated. if the overcharge cd was cut in 1/2 to about 8 secs, it would be “just as” rewarding to leave it out and keep it alive, because you would gain condi clearing and water fields while not really losing hps. with its numbers as it is, it is unquestionable that the best course of action of the 3 choices is to never leave it out and to choose between exploding and picking up asap depending on the fight.

I agree with you, I just don’t think it’s fair to say there’s no reward for keeping it alive. I’ve been guilty of saying that as well, but I don’t think it’s true. The issue is that the seconds you’re losing on the cooldown are not being countered by the usefulness of the gyro itself. That’s a gyro problem, not a problem of the mechanic of when the cooldown starts. I can’t think of another skill in the game where the cooldown starts as soon as you use it. Cooldowns don’t start when you use the skill, even if it has a duration. It’s not really unfair that gyros work the same as every other skill when you think about it that way.

Either way you look at it, it’s pretty clearly been buffed. I would have preferred the cooldown on placement, but this compromise seems fair to me. The cooldowns seem fair at any duration the gyro remains alive when compared to how it was for a few days there.

and gyros will continue to be bad in comparison to every other utility skill a engineer has..
I can only say it again..
give them skills instead of blowing them up,
make them untargetable and remove hp entirely,
give them tiny weapons to shoot while up..

I think that the changes are a way forward but it should still be the aim that they are more helpful when they are up instead of blowing them right after summoning.
The passiv boons Frightlight.3796 setup are nice – somehting like Experimental Turrets for gyros would also be awesome boons in an intervall for the gyros, the engi and maybe 5 people.

Another thing would be that they have really low HP and Armor. Could also be a good idea to make them more tankier. With the current changing they stay by me instead of running away (nice changing) but the problem is when someone makes an ae attack like a hammer warrior, ele or staff guard they are kaput within one attack.

Why not give purge and bulwark gyro a small gun that makes 120-170 dmg each attack. Is the Shredder Gyro doing dmg or is he just whirling? (nice for combo fields but with no dmg not so great)

I think the idea of making them untargetable is a bit too much. (I am not against it but the consequences of this could be far worst for the gyros then when they are attackable – weaker effects, higher intervalls and so on)
But for ranger ghosts that would be the best idea. They are no direct offense just buffs and the ghost have even buffed via skill not much life and you cant order them. They follow you or are stationary.

When the Gyros are crit immun and condition immun (dont know why a construction should be able to bleed or be confused, be blinded or be poisoned) including with much more hp and much higher armor that would do the trick also.

I like the changes with the cooldown cause i used Final Salvo alot in WvW as CC support with the last changes it was not so good now they are useful again.

Comparing them with other classes’ utilities is kinda pointless, though.
Other classes aren’t as overly reliant on utilities as the engineer (mainly due to our botched design – as every gyro used is a kit that could have been used instead).

We need them to be somewhat reliable. And right now they don’t seem to be reliable at all.
If i use a gyro at a certain moment, it’s because i need its effects during that timeframe. If it just dies easily, there is no point to it. Even if it comes back in 20 seconds. Cause i can already be dead by then.
We just can’t afford to spend utility slots like that. They’re too scarce to be used on something that can’t work as expected. Kits work because they do what they’re supposed to do. Same for elixirs. Gadgets…it’s more a matter of balance. And turrets aren’t reliable at all, so they’re just used as initial effect+overcharge+instablast/pickup. Because we already know that they’ll die if they stay placed down.

Right now, it seems to me they’re giving them the turret treatment rather than having a proper reliability. I mean, just see the healing gyro. It is just more beneficial to use it for the initial effect and blast it yourself. That’s an healing turret 2.0, come on, the only difference is that there is no overcharge and that it can’t be picked up, but it is used functionally the same way apart from that. They even gave gyros a grandmaster trait that benefits from blasting them asap so that we can have them available earlier just so that we can blast them again.
I don’t have much hopes for them, sadly.

It would be indeed nice if their blow up would cause different effects and if ALL the toolbelts got really good effects. I mean seriously – what could you best do with the short weak poison field of the purge gyro? Meh … Well lets see in 4 days what else they did ^^

Maybe they could make the gyros not only good when you blow them up.
Funny idea how would it be when they are good when they are in use.
But that could mean that all gyros need heavy life and armor, high dmg, faster intervalls and higher range and so on or like Smokin Dice.9103 said make them untargetable including all make dmg and have better intervalls then now + boons.
But it was the intention from the beginning that you blow them up or why they made the grandmaster ability like that? So they just copy the old tactic to a new skin, after they destroyed the old turrets with their patch. So nothign new just the old thinking.
All temp pets will always be liek that or arenanet need to rethink about it and i dont see that anyway in the future.

The temporary pets will always stay what they are at the moment only useful to gain finisher or conditions and nothign more.

I propose Blast gyro gain a blast finisher to synergize with air fields, swiftness, and superspeed. Since blast gyro’s purpose is to explode, I propose it gain a verrrry short cooldown of about 15 or even 10 seconds. This would make it incredibly viable, even strong. Heck even 20 seconds would be good. Just to make it competitive with other blasts.

But i will say, I still don’t like the wonky dart mechanic.

I do think that the utility Blast Gyro at the moment appears to under perform in comparison to other similar utilities. If we compare it to the gadget Throw Mine we see that while the launch vs knockback values benefit Blast Gyro, as well as the overall damage and range being higher as well as the ability to trait for Final Salvo’s benefits for Blast Gyro there are significant benefits from Throw Mine.

Throw Mine can not be destroyed en route. It potentially removes up to five boons. It is also a blast finisher. It will deliver it’s full pay-load if you detonate it. It has a 18s cool-down un-traited for Gadgeteer and a monsterous 13s cool-down when traited. When traited the Throw Mine skill also provides more damage radius, making it easier to hit your targets.

Since Blast Gyro by nature of it’s design has a very low hp pool in order to allow enemies the ability to kill it en route it and consideration is taken for the above listed benefits it does require a lower cool-down to be competitive. There is more unstoppable utility from Throw Mine (Boon Strips, Knock Back, Blast Finisher) on a 13s cool-down than Blast Gyro could ever dream of providing.

In fact it gets worst if you consider both of them whilst they are traited. You do about half of the damage if you take Throw Mine but you get to use it twice (potentially 10 boon strips, two blast finishers and 2 knock backs as well) in the same time it would take to use Blast Gyro and assuming your target for Blast Gyro is within melee range so that the travel time to the target is about 1sec.

If Blast Gyro is destroyed by your opponent and it is traited for Final Salvo there is the potential for you to have a lightning field in a completely useless place if it was destroyed by ranged attacks. As a result you could have done no damage (or two ~220 dmg procs) and received no benefits from Blast Gyro in the worst case scenario. In the worst case scenario for Throw Mine you could use the Blast Finisher with healing turret or simply as zoning / area control but you will have another one up in 13s to try again in comparison to the +25s of Blast Gyro (because remember Gyro cool-downs start after the Gyro is destroyed, also I am not advocating for the switch back to Gyro cool-downs starting at cast as I believe that after destruction is superior in purpose and flexibility).

With all of that said there are significant down sides to taking Blast Gyro over Throw Mine. You are taking it for the stun breaker + AoE super speed as the DPS will be unreliable at best in any competitive game scenario, especially in WvW. You are also taking Blast Gyro for the mental comfort of being able to control a single line (direct path to target that your opponent can’t take), which is probably just going to be just that (all in your head). Most classes will likely auto attack through this skill unless you set it down and move far enough off to the side that it doesn’t get accidentally focused down. While the range of 1500 is notable, Rangers could auto attack this to death before it reaches it’s target at that distance or Rapid Fire it to death if it crosses line of sight between you and the Ranger but it did provide the advantage of discouraging focus on you for a second or two (maybe).

In the best case scenario Blast Gyro hits and does significantly more damage and more effects (further launch) than Throw Mine. This is the ideal scenario for the Scrapper.

As a result it is my opinion that the real problem is that Blast Gyro suffers from one main problem; it’s inability to deliver it’s pay-load effectively (when we sum up all of it’s issues). In total it suffers from being both easy to kill, very slow, easy to accidentally kill (a player not actually trying to stop it by focusing it but still doing so without any effort) and the stall at it’s spawn to allow for possible player buffing. To compound matters further the engineer does not have a reliable way to give this gyro swiftness either, being forced to get swiftness for it from blasting a Lightning Field (two skills), Throw Elixir B (random chance you will not get swiftness) or do something wonky like take traited Net Turret (we have to trait for one Turret and take a turret…). Each of these means that you have to at maximum use two other skills or trait in a wonky manner to enable this Blast Gyro to be most likely effective.

To resolve these issues I propose that the Function Gyro trait can be merged with Decisive Renown and that the minor minor trait should now provide boons such as regeneration, swiftness, protection and fury for y seconds every x seconds to active gyros. The Final Salvo trait should now not just give the Lightning Field on detonation but also AoE distribute all of the boons on the destroyed Gyro to allies for a duration of two or three seconds. With these changes it is my belief that additional relief can be brought to the issue of Gyro mobility & survivability as well as bolstering the concept of Gyros being the tool of choice for Scrappers (with the additional complimentary side effect of calming the masses that Scrapper has no PvE minor traits).

It should also provide these boons to the merged Function Gyro so that this trait will still benefit a scrapper who is not running any Gyros as their utilities / heal / elite. It also means that Function Gyro can now potentially take a little more of a beating from zerker opponents when stomping and is a little more resilient against boon strips. It still shouldn’t out survive group bombs on top of it so that there is some counter play.

The skill Blast Gyro in my opinion currently suffers from too many weak attributes (too slow + too low HP + stall at spawn to allow for potential buffing by the player + easy to accidentally kill). Other Gyros also suffer from some of these issues as well and it is my belief that these recommended changes could help to alleviate many of these issues.

Edit: P.S. As a side note and completely unrelated to the Gyro issues above. Can we please get a little buff on our ONLY underwater weapon? The auto does -kitten for damage and sometimes I feel like I should just strangle myself with the cable from Retreating Grapple instead of using it on an opponent. I know this part isn’t very constructive but that’s how I feel underwater as an Engineer currently… my main weapon is just there for maybe an escape or two and the stats it gives. When you guys find the time, show the aging Harpoon Gun a little love, ty

Aravind.9610:

I have a few ideas which might make some of the currently less appealing gyros more useful in all combat modes. Some might be a bit crazy or op but still lets face it they do need improvement . The improvements I suggest are the kind that don’t change functionality and only tweak numbers. This should be possible to implement before the expansion is released. Here they are:

Function Gyro – I know people are saying that the profession mechanic’s use is limited but there are a few ways this can be improved without introducing new functionalities or animations. First reduce the cooldown of the mechanic to 0. That’s right 0 seconds. Second give this thing full on invulnerability buff for 10 seconds i.e its entire duration. Third remove the ability for scrapper to revive or finish off enemies without the gyro. This ensures that we are the only class to have a proper ranged finisher and it gives us a 0 cooldown ranged revival too. I know this has no counterplay in pvp but lets face it this thing already has a longer cast time than if players finished/revived. So it shouldnt have any counterplay.

Bulwark Gyro – Give this thing like 20-25k health. May seem a bit much but gyros have a time limit after all so that can be shortened a little bit for balance, like say, 10 seconds instead of 15 seconds.

Shredder Gyro – Unlike the other gyros this one doesn’t follow you around. It exists mostly as a whirl finisher that lasts for 12 seconds. Problem is whirl finishers aren’t all that great right now except for the cleansing and blinding bolts. Best way to make it more useful is to improve its damage from like 27 per second to like 150 per second. That would add an area denial functionality as well as the whirl finishers. The counterplay is obviously destroying the gyro from out of its range.

Blast gyro tag – Now this skill as it is fails all across the board. It fails as a utility skill because it moves extremely slowly. It fails as a damage skill because of the low damage. And the toolbelt skill is nothing compared to some others that engineer already has. And worst of all it can’t hit critically. Its probably too late for the toolbelt skill right now, however the gyro itself can be improved quite easily to have an “unique” functionality in all combat modes. Increase the damage of this skill to 20000 damage. Yes, 20000 damage for insta down on a lot of player builds and trash mobs. This gives the blast gyro an unique functionality that NO OTHER SKILL has. In exchange make this skill have an activation time of 3 seconds as opposed to what it has now (0.5 seconds). And increase the cooldown to 45 seconds. After the expansion releases maybe you can also add a tell to the skill animation so it can be easily identified. Another form of counterplay simply includes not being where the gyro was targeted when it hits. It does move slowly after all and it is ground targeted as opposed to having an attack target. Finally it can also be destroyed from range before it hits. For a skill with so many counterplays it is only fair that the damage be compensated to 20000 when it does hit.

Sneak Gyro – Improve the stealth duration from 4 seconds per pulse to 6 seconds per pulse. Makes it more viable to use and puts it somewhat on par with thieves’ Shadow Refuge. Albeit you having to wait 30 seconds for the gyro to go away first.

Now some of these ideas might seem to be overpowering the engineer/scrapper but lets face it the developer’s job first is to make their work appealing to the playerbase THEN balance it out after the player feedback. Right now as it is the scrapper isn’t appealing in anyway as an alternative to the specializations we already have. In fact it seems like we are being nerfed a lot if we take gyros as any utility skill in PvE without much to gain for it. So please post your feedback on these simple ideas that can be implemented without changing the skills in major ways.

This ideas are hilarious… AND I LIKE THEM. They are VERY interesting!

I can see someone being darted with the blast g marker and having to actually worry: “Oh No! Now I have to be full aware of the slow nuke… God this is the worst!” Make the blast gyro always appear at a distance from the target: More an area denial than a real damage dealer.

Bypass coating
Whilst I was at first warm to the idea that this skill is now a stun breaker I now feel like it would be better off as something else. Instead it could instead push out AoE Resistance Boon for three seconds. In my eyes the original Bypass Coating skill is focused on providing group support rather than solely for the Engineer himself.

The Resistance Boon allows for Bypass coating to do exactly what it says… provide your group with extra mobility and also now provides some counter play against immobilization bombs such as from Venom Share groups, Ranger Entangles, etc. A change to Resistance would allow the Scrapper to better distinguish the role of this skill from that of the Super Speed tool-belt skill.

Chemical Field
This tool-belt skill in my opinion better suits the Scrapper as a stun breaker. As this class is intended to be a melee bruiser, having this as a stun breaker then allows you escape enemy stun and follow up with a skill such as Rocket Charge, Jump Shot or Magnetic Shield to apply Weakness on your opponents, impairing their incoming burst damage.

Purge Gyro
This Gyro should, in addition to what it already does, strip one boon from your opponent who is in the radius of it’s cleansing effect when it triggers. If it successfully does so then it should remove another condition from that ally. The current generation of this skill seems to not offer much value as most good condition builds tend to try to hide the high damage conditions beneath stacks of other less necessary conditions.

The ability to strip boons from an opponent over time can give incentive to keep this Gyro alive and give more value to the Scrapper as rolling counter-play/momentum changing (of the fight) skill. The Scrapper is encouraged to stay on top of their opponent and fight it out in order to receive more condition clears while slowly stripping the beneficial boons from the opponent.

NapTooN.6283:

Killyox.3950:

So Sneak Gyro has become even worse than it was. I can’t see myself ever using it. It’s pretty much useless everywhere except wvwvw i guess.

Other changes seem good but CD increase on gyros was a bit premature. If they still die fast then we are looking at an actual increase in CD. If they live it’s okish but not spectacular.

Not a word about Hammer #2 which has huge delay.

Sneak is by FAR BETTER than before, what are you talking about? Before it was:

• 44s Max Stealth with 30s CD (16s Downtime without Stealth)

Now it is:

• 44s Max Stealth with 45 CD (ONE FREAKING SECOND Downtime without Stealth)

Explanation: After The Duration of 30s, the Gyro would have stacked 14s of Stealth on you. At that Point, the previous 30s CD triggered, leaving you with 16s without Stealth. After the Changes, the CD of 45 will start as soon as you summon, so after the Duration of 30s you have 14s of Stealth left and 15s of CD left, leaving you at 1s without Stealth.

Whoever thinks that is a nerf, needs to clean their glasses, that it totally a buff, especially in Stronghold where permanently removing Allied Archers/Doorbreakers/Heroes from the Minimap can be pretty devastating to the Enemy.

No, it is worse because if it dies before full duration then it’s actually a lot worse :P. Also this doesn’t matter anymore anyways since they have changed it again.

The biggest value I see in stealth from sneak gyro is for enemy to keep losing target for skills and not seeing what skill we are using.

It still sucks and I don’t like it. If I wanted more stealth I would’ve played thief :P

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

• Hammer 1 Autoattack Combo: Went in and removed most of the aftercasts from the swings, so this should feel a bit smoother and it is a functional damage increase from the reduced rotation time as well as slightly increased might and vulnerability uptime.

• Rocket Charge: Will no longer leap about once you’ve reached your target, instead leaping ensuring that the gap remains closed and your leaps are more closely synchronized. The leap finishers from this ability now happen at the start of each jump, like other leap finishers. Also smacked the bug of this ability being affected by movement-speed.

Has the aftercast for Rocket Charge been reduced too? When I tried it it barely went any faster than normal running due to the delay on landing, making it kind of pointless for chasing/disengaging.

Will we get some new Patchnotes or Changes or something today or must we wait till release?

Coming back into the game because of all the excitement of new maps and SCRAPPERS.

One thought on wvw gyros dying would be:

Rather than “blowing up” upon being “killed”,

A gyro will “regenerate” (or rez) itself taking say 2-4 seconds (can be adjusted as needed) until all its original fuel is used up.

Once all the fuel is used up, it blows up.

There still is an advantage to “killing” the gyro because in theory it would just have to keep regenerating itself versus providing its benefit. On the other hand, just a few blasts of AE wouldn’t effectively shut it down until the reset timer was up. The key would be the balance of the time to regenerate around both large and small scale battles.

Thoughts?

There needs to be a half second pr quarter second after cast on gyros before detonate. It is too easy to hammer a button and summon then detonate a gyro prematurely.

SO…. after nearly a week.

Hammer is fine, little tweaks to do between animation and skill effect on rocket charge (evades finishing sooner than the animation [last attack])

Traits:
Minor adept: Function gyro useless in pve, slow and useless in pvp as we can’t chose between using it or using the self stomp. Poor core elite spec function as said again and again and again in MANY threads.

Major adept: No choice to do, without hesitation we chose Recovery matrix.
Shocking speed is too much situational and bring ONLY 3 sec of superspeed for allies -> USELESS.
Stabilization core is also too much situational with a PvP perspective in which Recovery matrix will be far more useful.

Minor Master: Decisive Renown, again too much situational, and again only designed for rallying/stomping in a PvP perspective, again only 3 sec of superspeed -> not really useful.

Major Master: Expert examination will only be played if gyros are, and it will never be a real choice against the two other possibilities, Mass Momentum and Rapid regeneration are great

Minor GrandMaster: I want to say LOOOL, why? Basically without the scrapper spec the engi is limited in terms of stun/daze: 2 at best. So the scrapper brings one stun and dazes if there is the hammer combo 5-3 OR if there is use of gyros as a consequence, this elite spec MINOR TRAIT “improves” the dazes provided by the elite spec. It is a funny circle, why not just increasing the basis dazes provided by gyros and the hammer combo? And not talking about the 25% reduction on daze or stun. This minor grandmaster is a placeholder, and it’s as a shame as the function gyro, minor adept and decisive renown minor master.

Major grandmaster
adaptative armor: great trait nerfed to 60 robu..lol for around 4 strucks we get 240 < 400 previously…
Final salvo: lightning field + 3 sec superspeed, why?? It seems that the WHOLE spec has been designed around Hammer 3.
Perfectly weighted: why stab on evading attack, why not dodge like the revenant?

Gyros
Since they can live in pve it is “nice”.
In PvP: medic gyro can be iteresting against healing turret but still testing.
I don’t see the point of the shreeder gyro, seriously a field is never lasting long enough to get it useful and too much rng in the strikes.
Blast gyro is useless since it can’t be affected by the ferocity etc.. of the engi.
Sneak gyro could be useful in stronghold.

Overall gyros are poorly designed they do not give enough improvement, or use against the elixirs or kits. And even the toolbet skills are useless against the toolbet skills of gadgets (slick shoes vs blast gyro)

Overall I am disappointed, I feel that this spec has not been designed with passion or love but much more around limited skills and ideas which do not reflect the enormous potential of the engineer. The whole spec is constructed on the hammer, half of the traits are too much situational and focused on rallying/stomping, gyros are very much limited considering the ratio: skill effect against cooldown + AI + hp +timer system (fuel lol). The core mechanic of the elite spec is just nonexistent by a poor and so much limited design and even not fully thought when chosing between using it or doing a self stomp.

Such a shame for the engineer class, It deserves much more passion and interest in gameplay design.

The only thing I can say is that the name is really well chosen: this spec has been made with scrap. Hopefully the team behind the scrapper will give it some reworks and more love.

ps: Thank you for the adaptative armor and HGH nerf, it is everything the engineer needed /ironic

Voramoz.6790:

There needs to be a half second pr quarter second after cast on gyros before detonate. It is too easy to hammer a button and summon then detonate a gyro prematurely.

agree

Ederyn.3107:

Voramoz.6790:

There needs to be a half second pr quarter second after cast on gyros before detonate. It is too easy to hammer a button and summon then detonate a gyro prematurely.

agree

Hm, I don’t agree, myself. In fact, I’d like to see the cast time for detonation go away, too. It’s helpful to be able to immediately throw down a Superspeed-granting Lightning Field when traited for it.
Are Gyros not being placed when pressing the button once, for you guys? I’d say that patience and calmness need to be utilized so that you don’t hammer the button repeatedly, but I suppose if the button’s being just plain unresponsive, that is indeed a problem.

Over the last few weeks I have been playing a lot of Scrapper in both PvE and WvW. As a result the following issues have really been standing out for me.

Rocket Charge
The Problems: The final animation root duration and the root bug.

Expansion of the problems: The root effect does not appear to perform as intended during higher ping encounters and can result in players needing to type either emote commands in chat or use another mobility skill in order to escape. Occasionally after using Rocket Charge I have found myself unable to move from my final landing position to another with only the keyboard movement keys. As a result I am forced to use another mobility skill such as Elixir Gun #4 to regain normal control of my character. This issue of excessive root times / being stuck in position at the end of this skill seems to happen mainly in larger scale fights in both PvE and WvW.

Recommendation: Since this skill is already interrupt-able at some points by skilled opponents the root (and only the root) at the end of it’s animation should be replaced with another effect, perhaps a sliding gradual arrival with dust particle effects. This functionally should remove excessively long roots as well as players being stuck in position. As a result of this change the need to use additional mobility skills or emotes to escape should not be necessary while not functionally increasing the DPS of Scrappers.

How are the plans after the first month atfer the only BWE Scrapper had?

Beautiful. Everything is perfect and fine tuned now. The last patch really balanced things out so there aren’t dominant builds on PVP. With the new mechanic they added, our F-Gyro is not situational anymore, and we use in PvE all the time. There aren’t bugs or glitches worth of mention. The elite spec is beautiful to watch and have a great personality, fully ingrained with the mechanic aspect.

And we also have duels, player housing, sit-on-chair animations, and a pony.

Ardid.7203:

Beautiful. Everything is perfect and fine tuned now. The last patch really balanced things out so there aren’t dominant builds on PVP. With the new mechanic they added, our F-Gyro is not situational anymore, and we use in PvP all the time. There aren’t bugs or glitches worth of mention. The elite spec is beautiful to watch and have a great personality, fully ingrained with the mechanic aspect.

And we also have duels, player housing, sit-on-chair animations, and a pony.

i Like this made my day thanks

Thanks for the great changes we waited for this so long.

“Engineer
Detection Pulse: Fixed a bug so that the radius of 600 is correctly displayed.”

WTF?

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

…

At this point we’re not going to be able to change the elite specialization mechanic very much. There are still going to be changes to it with the possibility for expansion of functionality post-launch.

…

What is the status of this? Even assuming the possibility of expansion of functionality post launch is gone, this post still says there will be changes to the mechanic that we’ve heard nothing of since.

I know this is why devs don’t like to say their plans very often. I get on people all the time for holding feet to the fire. Rather than demand changes that were “promised” I would like to hear from Irenio on if he still plans to make Scrapper mechanic changes and if there is any possibility for the expansion of functionality he hinted at.

I think it was just a lie to calm down the engi community, so that all players buy the expansion, after expansion the devs (not only irenio) dont even bother to talk with us about changes. Maybe on reddit they do, because on reddit they post more information.

I am already done with the expansion because my main class gets no bugfixes and my favorite game mode WvW gets no attention.

So i need to wait till A-Net do something, if not there are many good games out there.