Guild Wars 2

Hi guys I wanna show you my recent build for dungeon speed runs. It’s especialy tweaked for zerk runs. But be carefull damage output can make other classes cry:-P

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpPrlcxLLseNSbhM23hB5pRfdRAA-ThBEABMt/o8rNdEAchAc7BCko6PbpEMAwBwv/G47v58zP/8zPvzP/8zP/8SBExyI-e

- Like all other zerk build its about run on melee with 25 stack of Might and Vulnerability and unload maximum damage in shortest period of time.
- Scholar runes works well with good party. If your party suck use Ruby Orbs instead.
- Sigil of Night increase you damage in all dungeons (exept Arah, CM and HotW) and fractals (exept Cliffside, Ascalon, Water and Asura).
- Also dont forget for species damage potion (it gives you 10% damage boost)
- With this build you can greatly stack vulnerability. On crit and weapon hit. Also bombs what pulse (Fire, Smoke, Glue) has chance for vulnerability on every pulse.
- You can also stack 9x Might for 20s every 24s (Healing Turret, Mine, Big ’Ol Bomb, Fire Bomb, detonate turret and mine) or 9s stealth with same combo just use smoke bomb instead of fire.
- Master trait in Tools is moderate. Best is Speedy kits but you can also run with Power Wrench for shorter Prybar cd but imo its break ideal rotation. Also Kit Refinement is good for magnet bomb in some situations.
- Rotation is incredibly easy. Blunderbuss, Jumpshot, Prybar and spam Bomb till Jumpshot is recharged. Discharge skills use everytime they are on cd (with BOB better wait till boss has defiant). Especialy Mine Field is massive source of damage.

How hard it hits? Well check screen below:-)

Why not utility goggles instead of bomb kit – then you can ignore 15 points into explosives and take like 30 into firearms plus incendiary powder

DadMcFatherton.6781:

Why not utility goggles instead of bomb kit – then you can ignore the points into explosives and take like 30 into firearms plus incendiary powder

Because of that 8k+ crit from bomb AA every half second? You really want change it for one poor discharge every 25s? (with you have anyway from BOB):-) Powder damage with zerg gear is sux. That trait from explosives provide you much more vulnerability than goggles:-)

That is some reeeeeallly impressive damage output, made me all warm and fuzzy inside!
Out of curiosity was this with a ranger for fury/spotter/frost spirit and a warrior banner?

ShadowPuppet.3746:

That is some reeeeeallly impressive damage output, made me all warm and fuzzy inside!
Out of curiosity was this with a ranger for fury/spotter/frost spirit and a warrior banner?

Only with banners

Rozbuska.5263:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

That is some reeeeeallly impressive damage output, made me all warm and fuzzy inside!
Out of curiosity was this with a ranger for fury/spotter/frost spirit and a warrior banner?

Only with banners

Glad you posted this, help dispel some of the myth that only warrior/thief can do damage in pve, kudos.

Nice damage on T-B34RC3 (Tyler Bearce Game Designer ??)

Looks like a fun build, gonna give it a try.

Blood~

Nice Damage there. Would love to see one with 25 Bloodlust stacks and Power-Food.

When you argument with the typical warrior zerker player they still believe they ’re the highest damage dealer in game no matter what. Even though they ’d be correct when speaking of bringing group utility when going full glass with the additional strength buff + banner + might + aoe rez from banners and a higher base survivability.

I thought this thread was going to be cheesy, but I commend you sir on teaching me something. I would have never thought that Bomb Kit would hit that hard, I thought everyone used grenades for zerker farming.

I don’t full zerk (if that’s not already clear), but you have impressed me and now I know the best way wasn’t what I had thought.

Question: Why the Sigil of Night? As you noted it’s completely worthless in certain dungeons and fractals (I’d say the tougher ones). Why not something like Sigil of Fire or Air with all the crit you have?

Adamantium.3682:

I thought this thread was going to be cheesy, but I commend you sir on teaching me something. I would have never thought that Bomb Kit would hit that hard, I thought everyone used grenades for zerker farming.

I don’t full zerk (if that’s not already clear), but you have impressed me and now I know the best way wasn’t what I had thought.

Question: Why the Sigil of Night? As you noted it’s completely worthless in certain dungeons and fractals (I’d say the tougher ones). Why not something like Sigil of Fire or Air with all the crit you have?

Basically you want the flat % damage increase (much more reliable damage than having a chance to do a skill with a coefficient of 1.0 and then goes on cooldown and also doesn’t crit), I use four different rifles 1 with sigil of night, 1 with sigil of force, 1 with bloodlust and 1 with perception, to switch around depending on the situation and group composition. When soloing I stack perception and then switch to the rifle with force unless it’s nighttimr, in my dungeon group I use bloodlust (since we run with a warrior with banner and a ranger with spotter frost spirit). Of course the stacking sigils only work if you can keep from getting downed all the time. Same with scholar runes, if you can’t stay above 90% health most of the time then ruby orbs are the better choice (also cheaper by a large margin).

This thread deserves more attention. I’ve been using this build since you first posted it a week ago and it’s incredible. I used to use my warrior when our group needed more dps, but warrior is so dull to play so I was intrigued by your damage numbers. I must thank you for posting this because engi is by far my favorite class to play. Maybe general opinion will change as it has for ranger recently.

I’ll also add that I’ve been using Throw Mine sometimes in situations I don’t need gear shield. The AoE on its toolbelt skill is impressive with a reasonable cd.

Adamantium.3682:

I thought this thread was going to be cheesy, but I commend you sir on teaching me something. I would have never thought that Bomb Kit would hit that hard, I thought everyone used grenades for zerker farming.

I don’t full zerk (if that’s not already clear), but you have impressed me and now I know the best way wasn’t what I had thought.

Question: Why the Sigil of Night? As you noted it’s completely worthless in certain dungeons and fractals (I’d say the tougher ones). Why not something like Sigil of Fire or Air with all the crit you have?

Well grenades are half power half condi damage and they are great for most situations exept melee zerk runs (with well organised goup) there are much better bombs. I’ve look for best base AA damage and Bomb simply excel in that. Zerk gear highly contribude from that base damage.

Night sigil isnt perfect but the best you can get right now:-)

Beliefs are myth war has never been highest you can find a vid of a war killing a vet in cursed shore in 25 seconds and an ele with a staff killing the same vet in 11 seconds. But it still doesn’t change the fact that engineers are more fun and kitten ring.

Thanks for this build tried it and def having fun. Never would have guessed bombs could hit so high

Something to take into consideration is the Vulnerability stacks from grenades. If you’re running in a group that already stacks Vulnerability Bombs are the way to go. If no one is stacking Vulnerability Grenades will probably give your team more bang for your buck because they stack so quickly..

Static Discharge and damaging toolbelt skills up your damage considerably with most builds, I was quite surprised to take an FT build up to a competitive level. We also enjoy zero cooldown on kit to weapon switches so pop into Rifle for Blunderbuss and Jump Shot on cooldown if you can.

Blood~

*Removed a few false statements after further testing.

From a full zerker perspective, you should be able to crank out more damage as 30/15/0/0/25 using grenades, bombs and EG.

You’d basically use grenade 2, 5, 4 when available (no poison on the target for 5), EG 4, Bombs 2, 3, 1.

It’s certainly more involved than just using the bomb Auto, but it should be the best possible damage you can get with 25 might stacks.

Knox.8962:

From a full zerker perspective, you should be able to crank out more damage as 30/15/0/0/25 using grenades, bombs and EG.

You’d basically use grenade 2, 5, 4 when available (no poison on the target for 5), EG 4, Bombs 2, 3, 1.

It’s certainly more involved than just using the bomb Auto, but it should be the best possible damage you can get with 25 might stacks.

Rifle
R1= 0.650
R2= 0.000
R3-Close=1.600
R3-Long=1.000
R4= 1.000
R5-Leap=0.900
R5-Land=1.800

Grenade Kit
GK1 = 0.330 (per grenade)
GK2 = 0.550 (per grenade)
GK3 = 0.100 (per grenade)
GK4 = 0.500 (per grenade)
GK5 = 0.200 (per grenade)
GK (Toolbelt) = 0.375 (per grenade)

Bomb Kit
BK1 = 1.25
BK2 = 0.20
BK3 = 0.50
BK (Toolbelt) = 1.70

Elixir Gun
EG1 = 0.40
EG2 = 0.75
EG3 = 0.40 (over kittens)
EG4 = 0.85

From a pure power damage perspective the skill coefficients don’t support your claim, it however does become difficult to factor in how much condition damage contributes in a zerker build with 25 might. It will vary greatly depending on the group comp and if other people are laying down conditionss that overwrite yours. The reason his build works well for a melee zerker type group is because of the playstyle, they burst a ton of damage into the target on open and then again when the target is low on health, most things will be dead before the condition damage really has a chance to overtake the raw power burst damage in efficacy. So while certain skills are close with your example, others are far behind in terms of raw damage. You have to also factor in ease of use as you said, the rotation you provided is more complex and also takes longer to run through, which provides more opportunity for mistakes. I really wish they would just give us a personal dps meter of some sort in this game, I know it could create even more “elitism” than currently exists in this game, but it would be nice to actually be able to measure real performance in a given situation.

I’ve been trying this zerker bomb + SD + minefield at crown pavilion destroyers, and the numbers are just down right sexy.

When you account for the number of ticks and cast times, I don’t see how the numbers don’t support the claim.

Bomb1 is your baseline number at 1.25/0.9s = 1.389
Bomb2 would be 4×0.2/0.9 = 0.889 + 10s of burning @ 585 per tick.
Bomb3 is borderline depending on the attack rate of the mob, but is 0.556 + 1420 per attack.

G2 is 3×0.55/1 = 1.65 + 3×15s bleeding @ 94 damage per tick
G4 is 3×0.5/1 = 1.5
G5 is marginal on short fights, but the poison duration is so absurdly long that you should use it for long fights.
Grenade Barrage is 8×0.375/1 = 3

EG4 is 0.85×5/1 = 4.25

All of those should be significantly better than bomb1 spamming.

What about the SDs that you’re missing? Surely that should be a point in favor of bombs.

Knox.8962:

From a full zerker perspective, you should be able to crank out more damage as 30/15/0/0/25 using grenades, bombs and EG.

You’d basically use grenade 2, 5, 4 when available (no poison on the target for 5), EG 4, Bombs 2, 3, 1.

It’s certainly more involved than just using the bomb Auto, but it should be the best possible damage you can get with 25 might stacks.

Imo condi damage is too slow in zerk runs. Rampager HGH Nades are awesome while you run with pugs on range but bombs are simply better in zerk. You can for sure make more complex combo but you waste 1s for swap and its sometime much more than a bit more damage from kit juggle builds.

Knox.8962:

When you account for the number of ticks and cast times, I don’t see how the numbers don’t support the claim.

Bomb1 is your baseline number at 1.25/0.9s = 1.389
Bomb2 would be 4×0.2/0.9 = 0.889 + 10s of burning @ 585 per tick.
Bomb3 is borderline depending on the attack rate of the mob, but is 0.556 + 1420 per attack.

G2 is 3×0.55/1 = 1.65 + 3×15s bleeding @ 94 damage per tick
G4 is 3×0.5/1 = 1.5
G5 is marginal on short fights, but the poison duration is so absurdly long that you should use it for long fights.
Grenade Barrage is 8×0.375/1 = 3

EG4 is 0.85×5/1 = 4.25

All of those should be significantly better than bomb1 spamming.

That is assuming that you are able to actually keep your timing so that there is no lapse on using the skills on cd, plus the additional time needed to either animation cancel (acid bomb) or switch between kits more frequently to maintain that rotation, your example is also much more reliant on the target staying in those fields for their entire duration. So it is clear, I am not saying that your example is demonstrably inferior in any capacity, but I do feel it is more prone to variance because of the potential for user error versus the much more simple rotation of roz’s build and because of the ability to have much of it’s damage overwritten by other classes who apply conditions such as guardians with burning every 5th attack. This is why I stated that it can be difficult to actually factor in condition damage because it is largely reliant on what other classes are being brought into the party. For certain grenade kit reigns supreme at applying vulnerability which is a consideration if you have a ele lh heavy party since then a engi is pretty much used as the only vuln stacker. I have a suspicion that both builds are actually much closer in performance than people realize but without some serious effort to test it in practical application it is simply too difficult to state which one will pull ahead. In the end I think it is going to largely be user preference, and whether or not a individual is comfortable staying entirely in melee range to do their damage.

You will do more direct damage by using nade2 nade4 and grenade Barrage on cooldown.

You should not lose any time with the kit swaps if you are doing it correctly.

On top of doing more direct damage, you’ll also add bonus condition damage for “free”

Using the 8k Damage bombs as a reference, you’ll do the following damage with the other kits:

B1 – 8,000
B2 – 5,120 + 10s burning @ 585
B3 – 3200 + 1420/attack for 6.5s – this becomes worthwhile @ 4 attacks

G2 – 10560 + 3×15s bleeding @ 94 damage per tick (4230 if it ticks through completely)
G4 – 9600
Barrage – 19200
G5 – 3840 + 3×5×6s poison @ 187/tick (about 17k damage on anything that lives long enough)

EG4 – 27200/1.1 since it isn’t an explosion = 24727

Knox.8962:

You will do more direct damage by using nade2 nade4 and grenade Barrage on cooldown.

You should not lose any time with the kit swaps if you are doing it correctly.

On top of doing more direct damage, you’ll also add bonus condition damage for “free”

Using the 8k Damage bombs as a reference, you’ll do the following damage with the other kits:

B1 – 8,000
B2 – 5,120 + 10s burning @ 585
B3 – 3200 + 1420/attack for 6.5s – this becomes worthwhile @ 4 attacks

G2 – 10560 + 3×15s bleeding @ 94 damage per tick (4230 if it ticks through completely)
G4 – 9600
Barrage – 19200
G5 – 3840 + 3×5×6s poison @ 187/tick (about 17k damage on anything that lives long enough)

EG4 – 27200/1.1 since it isn’t an explosion = 24727

You are ignoring the rifle attacks, prybar, toss wrench, surprise shot and last but certainly not least sd which doesn’t work with the kit loadout you have selected. The two builds fundamentally do damage in different ways. Without the ability to actually parse damage on a given encounter it becomes almost impossible to accurately represent what either of the builds is capable of. By now I am certain you still won’t agree and will just continue to argue the superiority of your particular build example and you are more than welcome to do so. My whole point is that there are many variables that will impact actual performance of either build, I just think there are far less variables with Roz’s given it’s intent…Happy engineering!

this build is lots of fun! thanks for sharing.

Bomb-Toolkit Zerk its the best build for COE ever coz the boss are just jokes that dont move or move really slow. Alpha really hate me when I farm charged cores XD

Equinox.1025:

Bomb-Toolkit Zerk its the best build for COE ever coz the boss are just jokes that dont move or move really slow. Alpha really hate me when I farm charged cores XD

Yup and defending the panel in the golem room with bomb aa is even easier mode than warrior axe.

Im not a fan of 25 in tools especially when u are in melee range for this build. For this build I feel 25/25/0/0/20 would be better as +5% dmg vs. bleeding will always be there. Precise Sights duration is far too short to be useful. It will last 1.8 seconds about vs. bosses, and thats a 50% chance of your crit chance of happening. You are better off with sitting duck especially with rifle/bomb. In general firearms traits are pretty weak and the minors are the only good ones.

EDIT: Stupid forum filters, I can’t do “as” followed by a space and 5 because of the langauage filter..

Plyte.8130:

Im not a fan of 25 in tools especially when u are in melee range for this build. For this build I feel 25/25/0/0/20 would be better as +5% dmg vs. bleeding will always be there. Precise Sights duration is far too short to be useful. It will last 1.8 seconds about vs. bosses, and thats a 50% chance of your crit chance of happening. You are better off with sitting duck especially with rifle/bomb. In general firearms traits are pretty weak and the minors are the only good ones.

EDIT: Stupid forum filters, I can’t do “as” followed by a space and 5 because of the langauage filter..

Personally, I would not trade away a potential 15% damage increase for a guaranteed 5%. In a group with a warrior and ranger, you will be close enough to 100% crit chance the entire time for just the extra +5% crit damage to = roughly a +5% increase to damage. If you are worried about losing the 10% bonus from not having full endurance I think it would be better to trade away 5 points from firearms to get the 5 points in tools for faster endurance regen. This is of course assuming that your party can meet the 25 vuln requirment still so that you can drop precise sights or sitting duck but still keep fireforged trigger. That is the thing about this build, it needs a fairly specific group scenario to be as effective as it can be, so I don’t really think I would consider it to be as pug friendly as other potential builds available to engineer, but in a group of players you are used to playing with and that know the encounters well, it’s simply devastating.

For follow up: To get the numbers in the above screenshot, the golem would have to have roughly 2200 armor, so you’ll see less impressive results for most bosses.

At those stat levels, you’ll have damage per cast time ranking of
Rifle 5
Rifle 3
TK 3
BoB
Bomb 1

If you went 30/15/0/0/25 your priority would be
EG 4
Rifle 5
Grenade Barrage
Rifle 3
BoB
Grenade 2
Grenade 5 if the mob is going to live for a while
Grenade 4
Bomb 1

The latter in ideal situations will crank out about 13% more damage in ideal situations, and about 7% more damage if you ignore all of the bleeds from shrapnel grenade.

It is certainly much more involved than the OP’s setup, but may be worth trying for a bump up in damage if the current fights are too boring for you.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

you will be close enough to 100% crit chance the entire time for just the extra +5% crit damage to = roughly a +5% increase to damage. If you are worried about losing the 10% bonus from not having full endurance I think it would be better to trade away 5 points from firearms to get the 5 points in tools for faster endurance regen.

5% additional crit damage in the type of setup you are talking about is worth about 2% damage, not 5%. The overall damage numbers come out to be nearly identical with either split assuming a 50% uptime on the max endurance. Anything higher than that favors the points in tools.

Knox.8962:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

you will be close enough to 100% crit chance the entire time for just the extra +5% crit damage to = roughly a +5% increase to damage. If you are worried about losing the 10% bonus from not having full endurance I think it would be better to trade away 5 points from firearms to get the 5 points in tools for faster endurance regen.

5% additional crit damage in the type of setup you are talking about is worth about 2% damage, not 5%. The overall damage numbers come out to be nearly identical with either split assuming a 50% uptime on the max endurance. Anything higher than that favors the points in tools.

Would you mind explaining to me the math behind your statement? I am not saying your math is wrong but I just wish to clarify for my own understanding. If you have 100% crit chance, how is 5% more crit damage not actually 5% more damage done?

Hey thanks for opening my eyes to the bomb kit!!!

I was an avid FT kit user and still will likely use it for zerg tagging but Bombs are becoming my new havoc favorite! With troll kit, I mean tool kit also, there is no escaping the bomb fields and pry bar!

Love it!

It’s 5% additional crit damage. Your crits go from about 2.6x normal damage up to 2.65x normal damage.

2.65/2.6 = 1.019 = 1.9% increase.

All direct damage multipliers are multiplicatively scaling so 5% from a force sigil is exactly 5% more direct damage.

Knox.8962:

It’s 5% additional crit damage. Your crits go from about 2.6x normal damage up to 2.65x normal damage.

2.65/2.6 = 1.019 = 1.9% increase.

All direct damage multipliers are multiplicatively scaling so 5% from a force sigil is exactly 5% more direct damage.

Gah, kitten moment for me…thanks for the clarification (seems like I knew that already but the caffeine has not kicked in yet, can’t brain I got the dumb :P )

The more damaging abilities you have access to that have higher ‘damage per cast’ than auto attack, the higher you can push your effective DPS. The trick is you have to be able to hit these attacks as soon as they come off cooldown. If you load up with Tool, Bomb and Grenade kits and throw SD on top you’ll have a ton of damage but you’ll have to manage cooldowns. Bomb 1 for you default auto attack + B2, B3, G2,G4, G5, TK3, Rifle 3 n 5 and then your toolbelts+SD would push a lot of damage but, you’d have to hit cooldowns on everything which is not easy in the least bit.

10/30/0/0/30 Rifle/SD with TK, PBR and Rifle Turret can already compete with Ax/M – 100b warrior in the testing I’ve done and you really only have to toolkit for Pry Bar to max it. Switch to 30/10/0/0/30 Rifle, Grenade Kit, Toolkit and Rifle Turret ups your dps by 4% and Bomb’s instead of Grenade’s is another 6% on top of that. Haven’t tested Bomb/Grenade/Tool kit in this yet but I’d assume you do a bit more. Again though, this is theoretical DPS assuming you can hit all the cooldowns right away. These values come from actual hits on a 2600 armor target using the same gear across the tests.

Blood~

Elixir Gun 4 does an absolutely silly amount of damage (more than prybar) if you are using it on stationary targets.

Will it do more than Pry Bar, Confusion, Throw Wrench and SD?

On a 2600 armor target for me Pry Bar crits for ~3.9k on a 12 second CD plus ~750 in Confusion per activaton for ~6.5 seconds. Throw Wrench crits twice for ~2k and SD crits ~1.2k on a ~15.5 sec CD. IIRC… This should add around 850 DPS to your rotation given you activate on cooldown and the confusion ticks 3x times.

I haven’t tested EG personally but I’d like to see what it can do.

Blood~

… Anyone seeing any values that don’t look right, please feel free to help me correct them.

Bomb Auto Attack does more than throw wrench + SD last time I tested it. Prybar including confusion should hit for around 13k in the t-bearce test. Acid Bomb should be around 25k in those same conditions.

To put it another way, acid bomb hits for about 2/3 of a single bomb AA, but pulses 5 times.

That basically puts it at 3x the damage of a bomb per cast.

Bloodgruve.6038:

Will it do more than Pry Bar, Confusion, Throw Wrench and SD?

On a 2600 armor target for me Pry Bar crits for ~3.9k on a 12 second CD plus ~750 in Confusion per activaton for ~6.5 seconds. Throw Wrench crits twice for ~2k and SD crits ~1.2k on a ~15.5 sec CD. IIRC… This should add around 850 DPS to your rotation given you activate on cooldown and the confusion ticks 3x times.

I haven’t tested EG personally but I’d like to see what it can do.

Blood~

… Anyone seeing any values that don’t look right, please feel free to help me correct them.

I think eg will actually do more damage in total, but it is dependent upon as knox said the target being stationary in the field the entire time and the field allowed to expire. So against high health mobs that don’t move around much it would be more productive, against lower health or very mobile mobs the faster burst potential from the sd build I think would win out in terms of efficacy. I think this is what I mean when I say it can become so difficult to actually predict what your given actual damage output will be. It can be so closely tied to what your group does/specific encounter mechanics( or lack thereof) that goes beyond just simply how much might and how much vuln you can stack on the target. This is true for every class and not just engineer.

That damage in the screen was with 25 stacks of might on you and 25 of vulnerability on your foe right?

Because without them I can barely reach 3,5k of crit with bombs…
EDIT: even with the boons and conditions said above I can’t surpass 5,5k scit, I had food too… that quite strange.

youkai.2394:

That damage in the screen was with 25 stacks of might on you and 25 of vulnerability on your foe right?

Because without them I can barely reach 3,5k of crit with bombs…
EDIT: even with the boons and conditions said above I can’t surpass 5,5k scit, I had food too… that quite strange.

Did you have a banner of discipline? 25 bloodlust? all exotic zerker gear, ascended jewlery so on and so forth? And most importantly did you actually test against the same target?

Knox.8962:

Bomb Auto Attack does more than throw wrench + SD last time I tested it. Prybar including confusion should hit for around 13k in the t-bearce test. Acid Bomb should be around 25k in those same conditions.

To put it another way, acid bomb hits for about 2/3 of a single bomb AA, but pulses 5 times.

That basically puts it at 3x the damage of a bomb per cast.

So, in my test Acid Bomb can crit for a total of 10872 or 724.8DPS

Prybar Crit for 3.9K or 312DPS
Throw Wrench n SD crit for a total of 5600 or 350DPS
Thats 672DPS not including Confusion.
If Confusion ticks once over the cooldown it adds 63DPS which would bring it above that of Acid Bomb.

Bomb Auto crits for 3K with this setup.

Pry Bar has a coefficient of 2.0, Throw Wrench is .75 and Acid Bomb has .75 also, not sure on SD. In my tests I had no Might, with a full 25 stack I think TK may come out ahead, especially if Confusion ticks more then once within the 6.5 second up time. But its too late for me to do the math on it tonight. IDK, whatcha think?

Blood~

ShadowPuppet.3746:

youkai.2394:

That damage in the screen was with 25 stacks of might on you and 25 of vulnerability on your foe right?

Because without them I can barely reach 3,5k of crit with bombs…
EDIT: even with the boons and conditions said above I can’t surpass 5,5k scit, I had food too… that quite strange.

Did you have a banner of discipline? 25 bloodlust? all exotic zerker gear, ascended jewlery so on and so forth? And most importantly did you actually test against the same target?

That’s why I asked xD.
I have exotic zerker and ascended trinkets (some of them are power-toughness-crit), I have bloodlust. I didn’t had the banner of discipline and I tested it not with the same target but with a wide range of tharget with different levels (veteran, champ, legendary) but still even without that a difference of 2,5k damage sounds a little too much. But maybe I’m wrong.
I noticed I also have 100 attack less than your build but still….

youkai.2394:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

youkai.2394:

That damage in the screen was with 25 stacks of might on you and 25 of vulnerability on your foe right?

Because without them I can barely reach 3,5k of crit with bombs…
EDIT: even with the boons and conditions said above I can’t surpass 5,5k scit, I had food too… that quite strange.

Did you have a banner of discipline? 25 bloodlust? all exotic zerker gear, ascended jewlery so on and so forth? And most importantly did you actually test against the same target?

That’s why I asked xD.
I have exotic zerker and ascended trinkets (some of them are power-toughness-crit), I have bloodlust. I didn’t had the banner of discipline and I tested it not with the same target but with a wide range of tharget with different levels (veteran, champ, legendary) but still even without that a difference of 2,5k damage sounds a little too much. But maybe I’m wrong.
I noticed I also have 100 attack less than your build but still….

Heh it’s not my build rozbuska is the op, but I have been using a build similar to it for quite awhile. Anyhow, the actual target can have a huge impact on how much damage your attacks will do. Combine that with losing out on the warrior banner which is a 15% crit damage increase, and any other small incidentals that may change from your testing to the example shown here and you will definitely get fairly significant variance in actual performance. I will have to go run a coe and see if I can replicate his results there.

Bloodgruve.6038:

So, in my test Acid Bomb can crit for a total of 10872 or 724.8DPS

Prybar Crit for 3.9K or 312DPS
Throw Wrench n SD crit for a total of 5600 or 350DPS
Thats 672DPS not including Confusion.
If Confusion ticks once over the cooldown it adds 63DPS which would bring it above that of Acid Bomb.

Bomb Auto crits for 3K with this setup.

Pry Bar has a coefficient of 2.0, Throw Wrench is .75 and Acid Bomb has .75 also, not sure on SD. In my tests I had no Might, with a full 25 stack I think TK may come out ahead, especially if Confusion ticks more then once within the 6.5 second up time. But its too late for me to do the math on it tonight. IDK, whatcha think?

Blood~

Throw wrench will only hit harder than bomb1 if you get 2 hits out of it. I typically estimate PvE mob attack rate at 1 per 3 seconds, although that varies a lot from mob to mob.

The best way to evaluate it is to look at coefficient / cast time compared to the bomb AA. 1.25*1.1/0.9 for the bomb = 1.528/s

The Acid Bomb comes to 0.75*5/1 = 3.75/s

I don’t have cast time numbers handy for throw wrench, but assuming that it is 1s, you’ll need both hits AND SD for it to be better than just doing the AA.

Prybar is trickier. You get 2.0/s out of it, but you add 5 stacks of confusion on top of it. Fully buffed, you’ll be looking to make up a gap of 1.75 for it to be stronger than the Acid Bomb attack. That’s about 1.3 times the strength of the bomb Auto. In the example in the OP, you’ll have to come up with about 10k confusion damage to close the gap, which would require the mob to attack about 1.1 times a second, which would be highly unusual.

When you consider that acid bomb is also an AoE attack, it seems to be the obvious winner.

It seems they are equally situational. I believe Throw Wrench hits in a line but I could be mistaken. SD will bounce 3x times also but they are not true AoE. I can consistently get both hits on TR. I really like the block, pull n cripple of toolkit so I’ll be sticking to that. Over the course of a dungeon run it’s prolly a wash in the end unless you can keep everything stationary. I’ll prolly math it out later. EG does bring some nice stuff to the table though.

Blood~

Would love a vid of this…

^^ very much this

Actually after getting some gear, I wakittenting 6k and I had sigil of force and was wearing a green ring and 2 green trinkets. Everything else was ascended or exotic. If the champ hit me once I was dead though.

Alkaholic.3875:

Actually after getting some gear, I wakittenting 6k and I had sigil of force and was wearing a green ring and 2 green trinkets. Everything else was ascended or exotic. If the champ hit me once I was dead though.

Yeah this build takes a pretty specific group comp and playstyle to really survive and shine (everyone needs to be max dps they can get from their build because you want stuff to die as fast as possible to lessen the chances that you are going to get hit), I usually run it with a guardian, warrior,ranger,me as engi, and the last slot switched depending on what we need. But everyone needs to melee, and know the encounters well. Against open world zerg champion events like in orr, my pc is just too crap to handle all the commotion and I get like 8fps so I can’t run it because one missed dodge or block is death. So my feeling is this build is capable of doing fantastic damage, but it is probably not the most pug friendly build we have available to us. The build that knox has posted is probably the better choice when running pugs, since it gives you a bit more versatility in being able to range or stay in close, both builds you really can’t go wrong with, probably put up actually better numbers with the gk build over longer fights, but the simplicity of this build is what makes it appealing.