Guild Wars 2

@ ShadowPuppet.3746,

What build do YOU run? I always see ur comments and was curious what someone who has spent considerable time analyzing and number crunching runs…

Bloodgruve.6038:

So, in my test Acid Bomb can crit for a total of 10872 or 724.8DPS

It should be doing a lot more DPS than that, even without Deadly Mixture.

How did you come to reach this number? How were you testing this?

Alkaholic.3875:

@ ShadowPuppet.3746,

What build do YOU run? I always see ur comments and was curious what someone who has spent considerable time analyzing and number crunching runs…

Well that is a complicated answer to be honest, I don’t use just one particular build. It will vary based on the particular content and group composition we are taking (almost always full zerker gear for pve though). I rarely pug so it makes it easier for me to do this. I would say if you want to be able to adapt to most situations the easiest, running 30/15/0/0/25 or 30/5/0/10/25 are going to be your best bets. One will give you slightly more damage potential through increase crit chance and the other slightly better survival potential through having permanent vigor. Both of those builds will use the HT, GK, BK, and EG and P/S. The build posted in this thread by the op is highly specialized and tailored really to a specific group comp and playstyle to achieve it’s maximum efficiency.

Have a look here for some good info and happy engineering!
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/82395-guide-to-grenades-in-pve/ This is a fantastic write up, and the poster there really knows his stuff (seriously he is like a spreadsheet guru)

Phineas Poe.3018:

Bloodgruve.6038:

So, in my test Acid Bomb can crit for a total of 10872 or 724.8DPS

It should be doing a lot more DPS than that, even without Deadly Mixture.

How did you come to reach this number? How were you testing this?

If I have to guess, it’s taking the cooldown length into consideration. 10872/15= 724.8. If the fight is shorter than 15 seconds the dps value increases significantly, if it is longer than 15 seconds it still adds 724.8 dps if it is used every cooldown and averaged over the length of the encounter. The actual dps number of 724.8 will increase depending on a variety of factors including as you mentioned deadly mixture, skill cooldown reductions, how much might and vuln is on the target and any other incidental party damage increase you have. To calculate true dps values of a skill though you absolutely have to factor into the equation the cooldown, activation and aftercast time. Or in the case of something like acid bomb in this example for him where it ticks for 5 seconds but takes the full 5 seconds before it reaches the final tick of the damage total then has a 10 second cd from the final tick, it actually means it still takes 15 seconds before it reaches it’s full damage potential to a fight that lasts longer than one cooldown length.

Given the nature of the combat in this game (mostly from a pve standpoint) alot of people actually mix up DPA (damage per activation) with DPS (damage per second). This is what has led to proclamations from so many that warrior is the king of dps “because 100b hits hard”. Let’s look at an example of that skill, let’s say it does 30k damage it takes 3.5 seconds to get to it’s last hit and then goes on a 8 second cooldown (6 if traited I believe but I don’t play a warrior so someone else can probably answer that part) 30k over 11.5 seconds of time equals 2608.69 dps now in that same time period how much damage can they pull off using their auto attack for axe? Chances are in a 11.5 second time period they will far surpass the damage they get from 100b, but where and why 100b is useful is because it can increase dps over very short time periods (during a timewarp for example) or to burst down trash type of mobs that will be dead if the whole group is bursting on open (front loading damage). Engineer becomes a bit more complicated because we have many more options to layer our damage simultaneously so where each individual skill may hit for less we can get multiple skills to hit at the same time.

I will admit that my understanding of calculating actual dps values could potentially be flawed, but I know there are a few others that share the same view of it as I do, primarily being GuanglaiKangyi over at gw2guru (pretty sure that is his name on these forums as well). I think most classes are actually much closer in performance in their “optimal” damage dealing specs than people realize, the difference of course is ease of use and what other party buffs they can bring to the table.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Alkaholic.3875:

@ ShadowPuppet.3746,

What build do YOU run? I always see ur comments and was curious what someone who has spent considerable time analyzing and number crunching runs…

Well that is a complicated answer to be honest, I don’t use just one particular build. It will vary based on the particular content and group composition we are taking (almost always full zerker gear for pve though). I rarely pug so it makes it easier for me to do this. I would say if you want to be able to adapt to most situations the easiest, running 30/15/0/0/25 or 30/5/0/10/25 are going to be your best bets. One will give you slightly more damage potential through increase crit chance and the other slightly better survival potential through having permanent vigor. Both of those builds will use the HT, GK, BK, and EG and P/S. The build posted in this thread by the op is highly specialized and tailored really to a specific group comp and playstyle to achieve it’s maximum efficiency.

Have a look here for some good info and happy engineering!
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/82395-guide-to-grenades-in-pve/ This is a fantastic write up, and the poster there really knows his stuff (seriously he is like a spreadsheet guru)

Why elixir gun when all zerker? If u don’t mind me asking?

Alkaholic.3875:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Alkaholic.3875:

@ ShadowPuppet.3746,

What build do YOU run? I always see ur comments and was curious what someone who has spent considerable time analyzing and number crunching runs…

Well that is a complicated answer to be honest, I don’t use just one particular build. It will vary based on the particular content and group composition we are taking (almost always full zerker gear for pve though). I rarely pug so it makes it easier for me to do this. I would say if you want to be able to adapt to most situations the easiest, running 30/15/0/0/25 or 30/5/0/10/25 are going to be your best bets. One will give you slightly more damage potential through increase crit chance and the other slightly better survival potential through having permanent vigor. Both of those builds will use the HT, GK, BK, and EG and P/S. The build posted in this thread by the op is highly specialized and tailored really to a specific group comp and playstyle to achieve it’s maximum efficiency.

Have a look here for some good info and happy engineering!
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/82395-guide-to-grenades-in-pve/ This is a fantastic write up, and the poster there really knows his stuff (seriously he is like a spreadsheet guru)

Why elixir gun when all zerker? If u don’t mind me asking?

Blast finisher, condition removal, additional cc (if needed), regen and stunbreak from the toolbelt skill, and last but certainly not least acid bomb scales quite well with power considering it can be used simultaneously while doing other damage since it lasts 5 seconds, you can fire it off then animation cancel and go right into another skill (most effective against targets that don’t move around a lot). It can really be replaced with just about anything, I just find it makes a great fit in that setup. The advice I gave about those builds is basically from a pug perspective where you won’t know if you will need to provide vuln/might or if you will have sufficient condition removal etc etc, just feels like without taking specific rune choices into consideration those builds will give you the most adaptability in the widest array of scenario’s possible all while maintaining some very very good damage potential. They can be a bit tricky to use at times until you get used to having so many skill cooldowns to manage, just realize that you really don’t want to use every skill at all times. You can save certain skills for when you actually need them, like the blind grenade or the smoke field from the bombkit. It takes knowing the difference between which of those 15 skills is damage related and which are more utility related. That comes with time, but the point is you basically have every option you need to do it all besides facetank boss attacks heh.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Bloodgruve.6038:

So, in my test Acid Bomb can crit for a total of 10872 or 724.8DPS

It should be doing a lot more DPS than that, even without Deadly Mixture.

How did you come to reach this number? How were you testing this?

All of the testing I’ve done is on the Invulnerable Golem in the Mists for my own comparisons of different classes and build. So 10/30/0/0/30 Rifle with Sigil of Force, Scholars x6 and Zerker Amulet. I triggerd AB under the golem, made sure bleeds were left on the target and calculated the max potential Crit total of six ticks. No might or vulnerability on the target, 2600 armor. So these numbers are lower than what you would see in PvE with buffs. I usually make my calculations using a 2 to 5 minute test period and am more concerned about sustained damage than burst. I simply listed this value in comparison to the values I got from Pry Bar, Throw Wrench and Static Discharge testing in the same environment. I calculate DPS by Damage/Cooldown for a simple view, then can throw in crit rate and crit damage % for more accuracy. My full calculations take into account cast times and utilization of abilities and autoattacks. The value stated was full criticals on AB.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

10872/15= 724.8. If the fight is shorter than 15 seconds the dps value increases significantly, if it is longer than 15 seconds it still adds 724.8 dps if it is used every cooldown and averaged over the length of the encounter.

//

I think most classes are actually much closer in performance in their “optimal” damage dealing specs than people realize, the difference of course is ease of use and what other party buffs they can bring to the table.

First part, the DPS doesn’t really increase its just simply front loaded and short fights take advantage of that nicely.

Second part, this is true from what I’m seeing. Engi’s are on the upper end though. I really wanted my Mesmer and Guard to do better but it is what it is
Blood~

Bloodgruve.6038:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Bloodgruve.6038:

So, in my test Acid Bomb can crit for a total of 10872 or 724.8DPS

It should be doing a lot more DPS than that, even without Deadly Mixture.

How did you come to reach this number? How were you testing this?

All of the testing I’ve done is on the Invulnerable Golem in the Mists for my own comparisons of different classes and build. So 10/30/0/0/30 Rifle with Sigil of Force, Scholars x6 and Zerker Amulet. I triggerd AB under the golem, made sure bleeds were left on the target and calculated the max potential Crit total of six ticks. No might or vulnerability on the target, 2600 armor. So these numbers are lower than what you would see in PvE with buffs. I usually make my calculations using a 2 to 5 minute test period and am more concerned about sustained damage than burst. I simply listed this value in comparison to the values I got from Pry Bar, Throw Wrench and Static Discharge testing in the same environment. I calculate DPS by Damage/Cooldown for a simple view, then can throw in crit rate and crit damage % for more accuracy. My full calculations take into account cast times and utilization of abilities and autoattacks. The value stated was full criticals on AB.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

10872/15= 724.8. If the fight is shorter than 15 seconds the dps value increases significantly, if it is longer than 15 seconds it still adds 724.8 dps if it is used every cooldown and averaged over the length of the encounter.

//

I think most classes are actually much closer in performance in their “optimal” damage dealing specs than people realize, the difference of course is ease of use and what other party buffs they can bring to the table.

First part, the DPS doesn’t really increase its just simply front loaded and short fights take advantage of that nicely.

Second part, this is true from what I’m seeing. Engi’s are on the upper end though. I really wanted my Mesmer and Guard to do better but it is what it is
Blood~

Yeah I should have explained what I meant about that first part better, if you were to look at just that skill and the fight lasts for only 5 seconds (not really all that feasible usually) then it’s dps would look like 2k dps, so any interval amount in between 5 seconds and longer is going to look like less and less dps until it reaches the low threshold of 15 seconds and time for the reset of the skill. It’s why when actually calculating dps it is always done over longer periods to more accurately reflect a truer dps picture. In this game since encounter times can vary so much (I’m looking at you lupi 17.5 second kill) and there are so many other factors to consider such as disconnect time from dodges or what have you, trying to present a accurate picture of what real performance will be is almost impossible. All we really can do is take it on a skill by skill basis and say theoretically this is what dps values you can potentially get yada yada. This is why damage coefficients become fairly important in predicting potential damage because it cuts out all the extracirriculars. Basically even with all the math though it’s still guess work at the end of the day of what you are going to get on a given encounter.

I’ve recently switch MedKit for Healing Turret. Its imo provide much more support for party. Also you can stack up to 9 Might (12 with elite) for 20s every 24s or up to 13s stealth every 24s. Its pretty simply just use combo: Healing Turret, Rifle Turret, BOB, Fire (or Smoke) Bomb and blast both turrets

I’m new to engies (and the game in general, tbh), and have a question. “its about run on melee with 25 stack of might and vulnerability” I can see where the vuln comes from, but where does the “25 stacks of might” come from?

hgh in the alchemy tree, juggernaut in the firearms tree, sigil of strength, sigil of battle, runes of altruism. you could take might/boon duration runes and easily maintain 25 stacks by yourself. but if you party with an elementalist or a warrior they could easily put 10-20 stacks of might on the entire group so maybe you’ll want to grab more offensive runes.

ellesee.8297:

hgh in the alchemy tree, juggernaut in the firearms tree, sigil of strength, sigil of battle, runes of altruism

Wow no. Not in this Build.

a) from other players
b) fire bomb gives a fire field. Use explo finisherin there for AoE – Might. You got 3 explo finisher excluding elite.

oops thought he meant just in general.

Forestnator.6298:

b) fire bomb gives a fire field. Use explo finisherin there for AoE – Might. You got 3 explo finisher excluding elite.

4 actualy

I’m new to engies (and the game in general, tbh), and have a question. “its about run on melee with 25 stack of might and vulnerability” I can see where the vuln comes from, but where does the “25 stacks of might” come from?

i will just leave it here to not loose this thread)

Saharan.4739:

I’m new to engies (and the game in general, tbh), and have a question. “its about run on melee with 25 stack of might and vulnerability” I can see where the vuln comes from, but where does the “25 stacks of might” come from?

A blast finisher in a fire field grant every nearby ally 3 stacks of Might (iirc for 15 seconds +boon duration buffs). So, someone sets up a fire field (e.g. Bomb Kit #2) and you or someone else performs a blast finisher (e.g. Bomb Kit Tool Belt skill).

More about combos:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo

DesertRose.2031:

Saharan.4739:

I’m new to engies (and the game in general, tbh), and have a question. “its about run on melee with 25 stack of might and vulnerability” I can see where the vuln comes from, but where does the “25 stacks of might” come from?

A blast finisher in a fire field grant every nearby ally 3 stacks of Might (iirc for 15 seconds +boon duration buffs).
So, someone sets up a fire field (e.g. Bomb Kit #2) and you or someone else performs a blast finisher (e.g. Bomb Kit Tool Belt skill).

Just a minor correction: it’s 20 seconds base for Area Might stacks from Blast finishers. So with 30 Alchemy + H/F/S runes they last for 38 seconds. It’s quite nice.

Very nice. May have to try this on my alt.

Thanks.

Question to them theorycrafters here:

Won’t a 30/15/0/0/25 build with S/P and sigils of night + force bring more DPS than the rifle version with only one sigil?
From what I understood, rifle only adds Jump Shot to the max DPS rotation, that’s one skill with ~1,5x bomb AA damage on a 16s CD if traited and you loose time / damage from weapon swapping.
Aside from the extra sigil, you get another (though hard to land) blast finisher with shield.

Or do I miss something? Does kit damage still base on the mean weapon damage of the equipped weapon? So kit (rifle) > kit (pistol)?

yah i find that with this build you need help to do damage while other classes can do that damage by themselfs….. i just wish turrets had more of a group support then damage healing turret is nice throwing a flame turret in the frey and poping aoe blind helps. some mobs are immune however… need a mob or boss thats immune to physical damage so conditions would shine in pve at leaste once…

Hyuri.8795:

Question to them theorycrafters here:

Won’t a 30/15/0/0/25 build with S/P and sigils of night + force bring more DPS than the rifle version with only one sigil?
From what I understood, rifle only adds Jump Shot to the max DPS rotation, that’s one skill with ~1,5x bomb AA damage on a 16s CD if traited and you loose time / damage from weapon swapping.
Aside from the extra sigil, you get another (though hard to land) blast finisher with shield.

Or do I miss something? Does kit damage still base on the mean weapon damage of the equipped weapon? So kit (rifle) > kit (pistol)?

Afaik Sigil of Night and Force dont stack. You can probably use pistol and shield for two sigils without any significant loose of damage with bombs but sometime you need range something and pistol is very bad source of damage in power builds.

Nike in guru warrior forum tested it. Surprisingly they do stack.

Night/force stack, as do night/slaying, slaying/force, etc.

That sounds new. Friend of mine test it about 3 months ago and its dont work. Time to try it.

They do stack, not sure if I like the range of pistol, but I do like the shield’s blast finisher. Prefer rifle still.

Is this build still viable? I have been trying it in random fractals (disorganised groups). I my max with bombs currently is 5.5k. Nowhere close to OPs damage. This was in Grawls Fractal with Superior Sigil of Night and Superior Rune of the Scholar. I use a ascalon weapon skin to tell if it is night or not on my Superior Sigil of Night rifle.

But I am not full ascended yet, I have an ascended rifle though, OP did not. How much does weapon damage affect kits, if at all?

Its still viable but to get to the OP’s numbers you really need full stacks of Might and Vulnerability on the target and %damage to species potion. Rifle Turret’s Automatic Fire helps now with its Vulnerability.

Blood~

Figured I would need all that. Shame I don’t have any organised group to do stuff with. I guess I’ll go back to my condition build for now until and if I ever find a decent group to go with.

Lipstick.3469:

Is this build still viable? I have been trying it in random fractals (disorganised groups). I my max with bombs currently is 5.5k. Nowhere close to OPs damage. This was in Grawls Fractal with Superior Sigil of Night and Superior Rune of the Scholar. I use a ascalon weapon skin to tell if it is night or not on my Superior Sigil of Night rifle.

But I am not full ascended yet, I have an ascended rifle though, OP did not. How much does weapon damage affect kits, if at all?

Weapon damage does not affect kit damage.

Lipstick.3469:

Figured I would need all that. Shame I don’t have any organised group to do stuff with. I guess I’ll go back to my condition build for now until and if I ever find a decent group to go with.

30/30/0/0/10 Grenades w/Rampager’s will do the most damage that I’ve personally tested. Zerker will do close to Rampagers and plays well with bombs or rifle/sd or TK or grenades. Zerker builds will also do more DPS then Carrion/Dire/Rabid gear. Zerker Bombs is a very solid choice for DPS if you twist in your rifle and Pry Bar or Acid Bomb.

Blood~

Bloodgruve.6038:

30/30/0/0/10 Grenades w/Rampager’s will do the most damage that I’ve personally tested.

It will do even more damage with the coming changes to modified ammunition on Dec. 10 >.<

Pazu.8320:

Bloodgruve.6038:

30/30/0/0/10 Grenades w/Rampager’s will do the most damage that I’ve personally tested.

It will do even more damage with the coming changes to modified ammunition on Dec. 10 >.<

Shh… that’s supposed to be a secret…

30/30/0/0/10 Grenades w/Rampager’s will do the most damage that I’ve personally tested. Zerker will do close to Rampagers and plays well with bombs or rifle/sd or TK or grenades. Zerker builds will also do more DPS then Carrion/Dire/Rabid gear. Zerker Bombs is a very solid choice for DPS if you twist in your rifle and Pry Bar or Acid Bomb.

Blood~[/quote]

Would you mind in post this build trait choices + food used?

So as not to take away from Rozbuska’s build…

Is OT build still viable? ö.ö’’ The damage’s lookin’ quite impressive.

Sure it is there wasnt any game changes since first post and I dont see any coming in 10th december patch:-)

what kind of rotation would you recommend using for this build? i’m guessing there’s some sort of priority system?

question:

are you able to use this build at fractal lvl 20+?

Jakzor.4160:

question:

are you able to use this build at fractal lvl 20+?

I probably wouldn’t recommend it unless you have a really organized group. I’ve been trying to build in fractals lately and at level 11-12 I already feel a little too soft. It may just be that I’m doing something wrong, but trying to be in melee range for the burst rotation means you end up going down a lot. You can obviously stay at range and just use your rifle/SD damage, but then you’re losing a lot of you damage output.

I wield the Bomb Kit in FOTM 20+ just fine.

Jakzor.4160:

question:

are you able to use this build at fractal lvl 20+?

I was able to use it recently up to frac lvl 50 its bit tricky and you need good group:-) But overall pure zerk isnt so good there.

Sure pure Zerk is good there, like everywhere else in PvE. We got infinite vigor and tons of cc with engi,aswell 2 great blinds. To not go zerker is kinda wasted and just lack in evading skill.

Knox.8962:

From a full zerker perspective, you should be able to crank out more damage as 30/15/0/0/25 using grenades, bombs and EG.

You’d basically use grenade 2, 5, 4 when available (no poison on the target for 5), EG 4, Bombs 2, 3, 1.

It’s certainly more involved than just using the bomb Auto, but it should be the best possible damage you can get with 25 might stacks.

I’d like to see what build traits you would use for grenades bombs and EG? And sigil/ rune? How do you remove conditions? Is throw wrench/ prybar not useful? I kinda like the dmg output so far… I’m running with grenade/ bomb and wrench for now but seriously lacking on condition removal and mobility section. :/

i’ve used this build at fractals 49. i go 25/10/0/10/25 though.

ellesee.8297:

i’ve used this build at fractals 49. i go 25/10/0/10/25 though.

Go 30 in tools and take Adrenal implant if it’s the endurance regen you want instead of Invigorating speed, then you have 5 spare points for anything you want.

what about trying it with grenades instead of big oll bomb? so to be able to do ranged dps instead of behing constantly forced to melee range
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcIQFAUnIEFxakLaqQ9aEZMDSbCBfAw+8QuaLIE-jAyAYrgQQQoMAJvioxWcLiGruGT5SEVbvLiWdUAWF-e

can always switch to bomb kit when you need bigger aoe or a mass knockdown (at dredge for exemple) I mean i like bomb kit damage in your build but grenade has the advantage of allowing you to keep your distance while prety much giving you similar dps (+ if you run the might on crit rune after you got your 25 stack of bloodlust your grenade stacks might quite fast because of the multi hit) I would run pistol shield however to gain a double buff (might on crit and bonus +5% damage wich both apply even if you use a kit!) and probably stay in grenade mode at all time unless i need to block in wich case ill use the kit or switch to pistol mode and activate both block or daze one after another. going dps on the dummy easily makes out a good 2.5k auto attack in pvp zone with half as much critical damage on auto attack no might no 25 stack and no bloodlust so i wonder how much damage it would do with twice that much critical damage in pve and buffed with banner like you were.

id replace swift kit with scope for extra critical chance however because swiftness is only usefull for running pve wise and its not like youl constantly spend your time running to begin with (just switch it when you gunna run from a place to another and you realy need swiftness)

build would run as 30 15 0 0 25. Now yea i know this looks like you got no cond removal and such but pve doesnt have as much condition as pvp do, + you get to kill thing quite fast. Now idk about 0 15 0 0 25 but it can always be switched to 0 10 0 0 30 if you think you got more then enought critical chance. i for myself like to have 60% without fury but i guess that if you constantly have fury having a 70% total crit chance you wont need the extra + 10% from mob under 50% hp and might as well run with a +5% critical damage and 50% endurence regen bonus.

breakdown bomb kit versus grenade kit down and ups: even with the final trait bomb deals better damage then tri-grenade by about 250 point on the auto attack in the skill calculation however bomb kit force you to fight in melee range and need only to crit once to do its full damage while grenade need to crit 3 time. However grenade will stack that vulnerability faster (3 vuln per attack because 3 grenade) and possess 2 cooldown attack (shrapnel and freeze) wich outclass the bomb auto damage and proc some condition (negligeable damage but still there) because of the number of hits you also are more likely to proc might from a sigil as well as the effect of sharpshooter. The tool belt grenade skill also deals way better damage then what the oll bomb do can be used at range and has a lesser sized aoe (calculated to 2800 total aprox in the editor versus the bomb 1794, however it it split amonst 7 shots wich may not all crit but will all proc vulnerability)

Now the question would be would you perma stay in tool belt mode or would you use rifle. because i must admit that jumpshot overcharged shot and blunderbluss all deal quite good damage.

kyubi.3620:

what about trying it with grenades instead of big oll bomb? so to be able to do ranged dps instead of behing constantly forced to melee range

Nope. Grenades are weak compare to Bombs and half damage are from condis so its waste in zerk gear. Rampager is better for them but you lose that crit dmg. Bombs has bigger damage multiplier and are full power based so maximaly contribute from zerk gear. Its not about BoB or knockbacks its about Bomb AA damage. Force on melee is bad point of view:-) I hate when I must go on range. In zerg runs all in party come to melee. If not boss chase you or use unwanted behavior. Pretty much all mobs are safe on melee range if you know their combat mechanics imo much more mobs are more dangerous on range than melee.

Rozbuska.5263:

Pretty much all mobs are safe on melee range if you know their combat mechanics imo much more mobs are more dangerous on range than melee.

Yup. There are only a handful of bosses in this game that you are forced to fight at range, and just about all of them are a snore in the first place (i.e., Jellyfish Beast).

Few ppl ask me lately if this build is still viable after berserk nerf (I heard how some warriors cry about 40% dmg nerf.. srsly?) So I made today some dmg screen on same boss as in first post:-) Again without food (always forgot) and without bloodlust but this time in ascended gear instead of exotic and numbers are pretty much same. I had some 9k hits other day but forgot make screens:-P