Guild Wars 2

Gern.2978:

RabbitUp.8294:

LucasCorso.3651:

I will lose 80% enjifun on www without Speedy Kits. And i think that this game will die for me after 23 june.

Perma-swiftness was moved to Medkit

People keep saying that, but I don’t see how. I thas a 15s cooldown, and only gives swiftness for 1 1/4 seconds.

What? No. It gives 15 seconds of switness on a 15 second cooldown.

AND it cures Immobilize, Chill or Cripple now. (Only one though, if you have multiple)
AND it heals some HP while doing so.

It’s right in the medkit thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Medkit-details/

I can’t find it now, but I read earlier that there was a dev post suggesting that they would soon clarify some changes to Steamlined Kits.

I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that this was a case of a poorly worded tooltip, and that the Speedy Kits component of Streamlined Kits kept it’s previous functionality with a 10-second cooldown, and that the 20 second cooldown artefact applied only to the Kit Refinement component.

It would still be a slight nerf given that I think most of us would rather not have Kit Refinement than have it (unless it has a really OP effect on the Mortar Kit), but it would be a lot better than Speedy Kits seeing a 50% nerf.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I was looking through Streamlined Kits and the effective loss of swiftness uptime there was an unintended consequence of Kit Refinement being packed together with Speedy Kits. I’ve gone ahead and changed the swiftness from Streamlined Kits to a 20s duration.

Thanks!

Whoo thatäs nice!

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I was looking through Streamlined Kits and the effective loss of swiftness uptime there was an unintended consequence of Kit Refinement being packed together with Speedy Kits. I’ve gone ahead and changed the swiftness from Streamlined Kits to a 20s duration.

Umm, wow, nice, much love, this will honestly be better than it was before. I don’t want to say it, I didn’t want to admit it, but I actually thought the nerf was pretty fair, it was just such an easy full swiftness uptime. But, Happy to see it back and better than before.

o_O Wow, I have NEVER seen a developer be that nonchalant about a change like that. Even in tiny games with less than a dozen players total.

Are you serious…

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I was looking through Streamlined Kits and the effective loss of swiftness uptime there was an unintended consequence of Kit Refinement being packed together with Speedy Kits. I’ve gone ahead and changed the swiftness from Streamlined Kits to a 20s duration.

I was literally on my way to this forum to talk about this and here you are putting a smile on my face. I love you.

So what happened to all those posts making fun of engies about speedy kits? They all seem to have disappeared Lmao!

Keep hating haters

It’s nice to see perma-swiftness returned. This makes for interesting choices, I think.
In PvP/WvW, Speedy Kits + Invigorating Speed was a really powerful, and often-chosen trait combo.

Now, there are three things that make it weaker: 1) the longer cd on Streamlined kits means a maximum of 25% vigor uptime (from that trait alone), vs. 50% as previous (with 10sec cd speedy kits). 2) The specialization design preventing players from taking just two points in alchemy for invigorating speed, and 3) the general nerf to vigor from 100% increased endurance regen to 50%.

I expect many players will use tools now without alchemy, taking streamlined kits just for the swiftness, without taking alchemy as well for invigorating speed. I see some very difficult choices in the Tools line grandmaster slot – with the nerf to vigor and the invigorating speed + speedy kits combo, Adrenal Implant will become much more potent, and may be quite competitive with the new Tools grandmaster traits.

My only concern is that perhaps the nerf to the speedy kits + invigorating speed combo was too much, and the combination may not really be used at all anymore.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I was looking through Streamlined Kits and the effective loss of swiftness uptime there was an unintended consequence of Kit Refinement being packed together with Speedy Kits. I’ve gone ahead and changed the swiftness from Streamlined Kits to a 20s duration.

That is awesome thanks so much!

I also wanted to ask though, will kit refinement put us in combat?

Could the you make it so like many other abilities, kit refinement only procs IN combat, so out of combat all u get is the swiftness? And thus don’t get your movement reduced by being put in combat accidentally?

Also thanks! This is a nerf to the vigor uptime on engi BUT I am more than happy to have this as consolation!

yowza!

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I was looking through Streamlined Kits and the effective loss of swiftness uptime there was an unintended consequence of Kit Refinement being packed together with Speedy Kits. I’ve gone ahead and changed the swiftness from Streamlined Kits to a 20s duration.

This is awesome ! Is there anyway you guys can keep kit refinement section from proccing only while in combat? Just an idea

I am laughing so hard right now.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g

ronpierce.2760:

Are you serious…

Hahaha, right there with you. Rather than fight it, just embrace it and switch to the overlord class.

HAHAHAHA… oh man, the salt all this has caused… mountains upon mountains… from a misunderstanding.

Hoooo hooo hooo… oh boy.

Well there go my mobility concerns out the window. I might not be including lock on in as many builds as I expected now. Choosing between perma swiftness and stealth revealing will be quite the decision to make.

Yamsandjams.3267:

HAHAHAHA… oh man, the salt all this has caused… mountains upon mountains… from a misunderstanding.

Hoooo hooo hooo… oh boy.

Well there go my mobility concerns out the window. I might not be including lock on in as many builds as I expected now. Choosing between perma swiftness and stealth revealing will be quite the decision to make.

Add in the 4 red posts on our forums and the salt level is through the roof. Heaven forbid engies get our own profession specialization week or the salt level will give haters a stroke

I think a lot of it stems from jealousy. Engineer does get a lot of love, but I think in part that is because like Mesmer it is Anet’s own archetype. They are excited about it. Necromancers are an archetype long used throughout MMO’s and in FANTASY mmo’s you don’t tend to see Mesmer or Engineers.

At least, that is what I put it down to.

PistolWhip.2697:

I think a lot of it stems from jealousy. Engineer does get a lot of love, but I think in part that is because like Mesmer it is Anet’s own archetype. They are excited about it. Necromancers are an archetype long used throughout MMO’s and in FANTASY mmo’s you don’t tend to see Mesmer or Engineers.

At least, that is what I put it down to.

I can see why it bothers necro and mesmer players because it’s an area they’ve traditionally been highly lacking in. So a lot of times a person can just turn and run the other way with their perma swiftness and they can’t catch them.

Of course, that perma swiftness has been very critical to engineer’s competitiveness since day one. Without it, engineer would suffer to the extreme in a lot of encounters. The tend to have less convenient stun breakers, next to no stability, poor condition clearing, and next to no micro-mobility outside of rocket boots.

As someone who’s roamed a lot, I can tell you that a lot of escapes I’ve made on engineer have involved huffing it on my own two feet as fast as I could. No blinks to get out of jail.

Yamsandjams.3267:

PistolWhip.2697:

I think a lot of it stems from jealousy. Engineer does get a lot of love, but I think in part that is because like Mesmer it is Anet’s own archetype. They are excited about it. Necromancers are an archetype long used throughout MMO’s and in FANTASY mmo’s you don’t tend to see Mesmer or Engineers.

At least, that is what I put it down to.

I can see why it bothers necro and mesmer players because it’s an area they’ve traditionally been highly lacking in. So a lot of times a person can just turn and run the other way with their perma swiftness and they can’t catch them.

Of course, that perma swiftness has been very critical to engineer’s competitiveness since day one. Without it, engineer would suffer to the extreme in a lot of encounters. The tend to have less convenient stun breakers, next to no stability, poor condition clearing, and next to no micro-mobility outside of rocket boots.

As someone who’s roamed a lot, I can tell you that a lot of escapes I’ve made on engineer have involved huffing it on my own two feet as fast as I could. No blinks to get out of jail.

I agree entirely, and trust your judgement. It is just, as much as I get the frustration and think some backlash is normal, to the extent of bashing a whole class over swiftness is petty.

It just makes me want to support their community less in their push for balance changes to their class, and I am sure I am not the only one.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I was looking through Streamlined Kits and the effective loss of swiftness uptime there was an unintended consequence of Kit Refinement being packed together with Speedy Kits. I’ve gone ahead and changed the swiftness from Streamlined Kits to a 20s duration.

Wow, just like that?
Can I get you to swing by the guardian forums when you get a chance?

This is great news!

Thank god! Would not have touched it if you had not increased the duration!
Thanks Irenio.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I was looking through Streamlined Kits and the effective loss of swiftness uptime there was an unintended consequence of Kit Refinement being packed together with Speedy Kits. I’ve gone ahead and changed the swiftness from Streamlined Kits to a 20s duration.

Why just not buff engineers to 1 shot anything on a sight?

Rip any form of balance.

skowcia.8257:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I was looking through Streamlined Kits and the effective loss of swiftness uptime there was an unintended consequence of Kit Refinement being packed together with Speedy Kits. I’ve gone ahead and changed the swiftness from Streamlined Kits to a 20s duration.

Why just not buff engineers to 1 shot anything on a sight?

Rip any form of balance.

Yeah because “buffing” a trait to worse than it currently is (more chance to have that swiftness boon ripped, nerfs invigorating speed (again)) is OP, as for “one shotting things”, a rather ironic comment given zerker engy is literally the most useless zerker build in the game (PvP).

skowcia.8257:

Why just not buff engineers to 1 shot anything on a sight?

Rip any form of balance.

Oh no! Most engineers will be running +33% movement speed instead of +25% movement speed, kind of like they all do today! Balance is ruined!!!!111!!!

Funny. On the first page of this thread balance was ruined (THOUSANDS of players deleted their engis!), cause they couldn’t perma 33% anymore. Now seeing it rebuffed, the difference doesn’t matter that much anymore? Oh, the irony :P

Anyway, better hide this thread before other classes see this. I foresee a kittenstorm (<- not actual kittens, that would be mean) :0

tetrodoxin.2134:

Funny. On the first page of this thread balance was ruined (THOUSANDS of players deleted their engis!), cause they couldn’t perma 33% anymore. Now seeing it rebuffed, the difference doesn’t matter that much anymore? Oh, the irony :P

Anyway, better hide this thread before other classes see this. I foresee a kittenstorm (<- not actual kittens, that would be mean) :0

News flash: the people posting those things are, you know, not the same people. As it turns out, there are a wide variety of players posting on the forums, with a wide variety of opinions.

That is absolutely stunning, I will blog this immediatly. :0

Compare the amount of buffs to engi vs any other class, espesially necro.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Who-won-the-balance-changes/page/4#post5169167

Lets also not forget whos the winner. Its unbelievable what they doing, someone must be really terrible at playing engi howered i cant say who.

Ooh, that’s nice. I have always enjoyed getting around the maps with perma-swiftness. Nice to know we won’t lose this perk after all.

I’m just in awe of how gracefully Irenio swoops in here and goes, “yeah, don’t sweat it, have your Swiftness back.”

Streamlined Kits wasn’t gonna be a BIG problem for me, I mean, quality of life might have gone down if I couldn’t go fast everywhere, but knowing that the Swiftness is staying? That’s super. Thank you.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I was looking through Streamlined Kits and the effective loss of swiftness uptime there was an unintended consequence of Kit Refinement being packed together with Speedy Kits. I’ve gone ahead and changed the swiftness from Streamlined Kits to a 20s duration.

Yay! This was the thing that was making me mostest saddest of the entire round of changes.

I know it shouldn’t matter so much. Deep in my heart. But also deep in my heart I like running fast (or my feet hate running slow).

skowcia.8257:

Compare the amount of buffs to engi vs any other class, espesially necro.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Who-won-the-balance-changes/page/4#post5169167

Lets also not forget whos the winner. Its unbelievable what they doing, someone must be really terrible at playing engi howered i cant say who.

Engineers got substantially revamped. The class got many new traits, but it also lost many other traits.
Many changes doesn’t necessarily equal many buffs, especially when we still don’t know the technicalities of many traits (like their exact effect or cooldowns).
And neither the interaction with the rest of the game. Since everything else changed as well.
If you were referring to the many slides of toolbelt skills…well, every class got half of their class mechanic attribute as baseline. For the engineer class that attribute was a reduction of their toolbelt cooldowns, so it only makes sense that they reduced their base cooldowns.

And steamlined kit is a master trait composed by putting two old adept traits together, anyway – two trait that haven’t even got a shred of synergy, since one is highly situational and the other is essentially used as soon as available. Having the same uptime as before is perfectly reasonable.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I was looking through Streamlined Kits and the effective loss of swiftness uptime there was an unintended consequence of Kit Refinement being packed together with Speedy Kits. I’ve gone ahead and changed the swiftness from Streamlined Kits to a 20s duration.

neat. did you read my reddit post on this? haha.
just to be sure you are aware of the balance changes.

current, speedy kits is 11s swiftness, on 10s ICD.
Invigoring speed is 5s vigor on swiftness gain, 5s ICD.
+10% boon duration for alch.

These combining to give alot of vigor of course. every 10s.

The 20s ICD on streamlined, with 20s swiftness duration, I did too suggest.
This actually creates a more risk/reward dynamic in pvp. while out of pvp the same effective 100% uptime. but in combat having that swiftness removed is much more painful.
But, I do at the same time want to point out that MASSIVE nerf to invigorating speed combo. now will be 5s(6?) vigor every 20s instead of the previous 10.

vigor itself is also getting nerfed I think I heard too right?

not that I think invigorating should be buffed.. but its being left as pretty mediocre. I’d like to see it bundled or something…. frankly, invigorating and speedy kits as a single bundle makes more sense then kit refinement.

Manuhell.2759:

Engineers got substantially revamped. The class got many new traits, but it also lost many other traits.

Thats the point. The amount of work put in engi compared to ranger, war, necro or even guard. We dont need a genius here to see AN favors engi. Even the stream alone took 45min jsut for engi..

Sins.4782:

skowcia.8257:

Why just not buff engineers to 1 shot anything on a sight?

Rip any form of balance.

Oh no! Most engineers will be running +33% movement speed instead of +25% movement speed, kind of like they all do today! Balance is ruined!!!!111!!!

Just because it’s in the game currently, does not make it balanced. Good try though.

skowcia.8257:

Thats the point. The amount of work put in engi compared to ranger, war, necro or even guard. We dont need a genius here to see AN favors engi. Even the stream alone took 45min jsut for engi..

Because of the amount of work? Well, it isn’t like they have spent much time on it before.
You’re talking about a class that had a whole category of skills – kits – fundamentally recycled from enviromental weapons. And some elixirs that just chose effects from other classes’ skills at random. I wonder if giving it few base weapons is also due to time constraints.
Not exactly surprising, anyway, since it was the last profession they presented. The class was likely made in a hurry.
Since now they’ve got more time available, they’re probably spending some more time on it.

I would like to make a note about the relative efficacy of the Med Kit post patch…

The fact the primary heal is on the Tool Belt means that, if you spec in to tools, you get a 15% cooldown reduction (this is why I currently use medkit, I get decreased cd on my heals)… but post patch it gets stupid-strong…

Tools Trait VII means that every time you dodge an attack (20s cd), you can activate your next toolbelt skill without triggering its cooldown.

That means a double heal after dodge 0.o

andrew.1798:

Just because it’s in the game currently, does not make it balanced. Good try though.

Just because it’ll be in the game in the future, does not make it unbalanced. Good try though.

Manuhell.2759:

skowcia.8257:

Thats the point. The amount of work put in engi compared to ranger, war, necro or even guard. We dont need a genius here to see AN favors engi. Even the stream alone took 45min jsut for engi..

Because of the amount of work? Well, it isn’t like they have spent much time on it before.
You’re talking about a class that had a whole category of skills – kits – fundamentally recycled from enviromental weapons. And some elixirs that just chose effects from other classes’ skills at random. I wonder if giving it few base weapons is also due to time constraints.
Not exactly surprising, anyway, since it was the last profession they presented. The class was likely made in a hurry.
Since now they’ve got more time available, they’re probably spending some more time on it.

This guy is completely correct, and this is the most logical reasoning I have seen. +1 for you sir.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I was looking through Streamlined Kits and the effective loss of swiftness uptime there was an unintended consequence of Kit Refinement being packed together with Speedy Kits. I’ve gone ahead and changed the swiftness from Streamlined Kits to a 20s duration.

Thankyou thankyou thankyou so much. You are now my favorite person in Anet.

Meanwhile…

Ty Cynz for pic!

kitten , the salt is real. The last time I saw so much QQ behaviour was during the initial D/D Ele nerf when they were God tier in the first months of GW2.

skowcia.8257:

Meanwhile…

Ty Cynz for pic!

Looool. They should showcase this in the next stream for community art. Great job Cynz.

Funny thing is I am glad for Engies and I don’t want to see any class nerfed, but I sure do think it would be nice if necros had this type of attention

Very nice. Thanks for the heads-up.

skowcia.8257:

Manuhell.2759:

Engineers got substantially revamped. The class got many new traits, but it also lost many other traits.

Thats the point. The amount of work put in engi compared to ranger, war, necro or even guard. We dont need a genius here to see AN favors engi. Even the stream alone took 45min jsut for engi..

Engineer had a long presentation because they had to showcase the finalized changes. Remember that Engineer was the one profession to have their specialization traits discussed from a powerpoint presentation rather than in-game and had about six to seven traits listed as TBA. And some that were listed and weren’t even properly explained. They told us that Juggernaut was getting changed back into old Juggernaut but instead they merged both the old and the new together.

skowcia.8257:

Manuhell.2759:

Engineers got substantially revamped. The class got many new traits, but it also lost many other traits.

Thats the point. The amount of work put in engi compared to ranger, war, necro or even guard. We dont need a genius here to see AN favors engi. Even the stream alone took 45min jsut for engi..

so i play warrior and engineer. many of the engineer traits i like have been deleted, and all of my builds simply dont exist anymore. on warrior, traits just got buffed and merged. my builds all still work, but just become even more beastly.

i dont know how i feel about the engineer rework until i play it, but i know that warrior will be beast 2x because they did things like merge all of the shout traits.

a rework is not always ideal, and does not mean more of a buff. engineer got significant nerfs and lot of trait deletions, warrior got mostly merges and buffs it’s hard to say which will be better. with all the condition changes, which many people forget destroy engineers engineer’s place in the pvp meta is still unsure.