Guild Wars 2

krixis.9538:

well if u ever got to play a grenade engie at 1500 range when you your team attacks the enemy that is turtleing at the point, then u will understand why the dmg was reduced. it was like chucking nuke grenades.

besides who cares its only pvp thats affected and not pve. just roll a warrior for pvp if your that upset.

I think the argument of rerolling to make it fine is an incredibly useless one.
If we’re discussing engineer pvp it hardly matters that there are other professions too.

And you don’t reroll that easy in WvW.
For some reason that form of pvp obeyes to pve leveling rules instead of the ones proclaimed for GW2 pvp.
Would be simpler if it was equalised like spvp…

In the end you can reroll that warrior just as fast in pve… so your argument sort of falls apart on that one.

I forgot to mention: you’re right that grenades needed some nerfing in WvW.
But I agree with the OP that that should have come with buffs to the other engineer damage.
We got a few fixes, but hardly any damage ones.

Well, instead of damages, I think we lack combo finishers.
I already made a topic in the suggestion forum, here are my idea (I may be wrong, but… that’s my point of view)
We need to:
-Add projectile finisher to the following skills: Poison Dart Volley, Static Shot, Net Shot, Elixir F.
-Add Leap finisher to the acid bomb skill.
-Add a water combo field to the following skills: Toss Elixir H, Healing Mist.
-Add a light combo field to the skill “Toss Elixir C”?
-Change the super elixir combo field into a water combo field.

Hsinimod.5784:

I saw Elementalist got their spawned weapons to have default stats… I then wondered why our Kits (if they can’t use our stats and sigils) didn’t get the same treatment—to have default stats and sigils added to benefit the kit.

The Elementalist summoned weapons are way more niche than kits. You can’t switch in and out of a summoned weapon: drop it and it’s gone. (Enter water and it’s gone, too.) It has a charge limit and also a time limit. It locks out attunement switching, which is a core of the class.

So kits already have huge advantages over summoned weapons and aren’t really comparable. Not saying that kits don’t have to be addressed in some manner, just saying that it’s an apples and oranges comparison: different mechanics, different power, different usefulness, different coding.

Druitt.7629:

Hsinimod.5784:

I saw Elementalist got their spawned weapons to have default stats… I then wondered why our Kits (if they can’t use our stats and sigils) didn’t get the same treatment—to have default stats and sigils added to benefit the kit.

The Elementalist summoned weapons are way more niche than kits. You can’t switch in and out of a summoned weapon: drop it and it’s gone. (Enter water and it’s gone, too.) It has a charge limit and also a time limit. It locks out attunement switching, which is a core of the class.

So kits already have huge advantages over summoned weapons and aren’t really comparable. Not saying that kits don’t have to be addressed in some manner, just saying that it’s an apples and oranges comparison: different mechanics, different power, different usefulness, different coding.

swapping sigils already have an internal cooldown, so that should avoid engineering kit abuse.

I agree with you by the way: having the insta-swapping kits is a serious bonus that is not often mentioned.
It’s vital to my own playstyle, and I would rather keep that part than get sigils but with a cooldown on kit swapping to balance it.

I see no reason not to let sigils work on kits, but no matter what change they make: I want the instant swapping to stay!
(others may find it less important)

leaving discussion cuz posters are obviously rank1 at best and/or too stupid to read

My stopwatch says people saying grenades travel faster, are imagining things.
I’d like some proof before saying they do. I unfortunately did not recorded any proof. Prior to patch to show.

Barrage “buff”. it was always 8 grenades with grenadier. That was not a buff. just a tooltip fix.
It did however get the range increase. that is a buff.. sortof… Barrage does suffer from spread. Especially at 1500 range. It wouldn’t call it unusable at 1500. but its not ideal for sure.

Incendiary powder was just a tooltip fix as others have stated, it has always been 3s cooldown.

Elixir R nerf is completely understandable. Its revive mechanic CD is now on par with other professions skills with a similar mechanic.

Grenade barrage in spvp. I don’t see the 10% nerf as stated. seems exactly th same to me.
Shrapnel however was nerfed by 18% not, 15%.

yes. why would we want reason?

Are you aware mesmer phantasms were nerfed considerably? Partially a bug effecting damage, as well as needing to land to be summoned. aka blinds, blocks, los, cuase phantasms to go on cooldown, while NOT being summoned.

were you aware grenade barrage didnt have its damage reduced at all?

How can you justify grenade aoe burst damage under the effects of quickness? either allied or self? Or the vul stacking?

Your entirely argument seems to be built on 1v1. “zomg, If my targeted isn’t controlled, I can’t 3 shot them” And if they are? Grenades are the highest burst/sustained dps option in the game. Building a spvp team, where you are dps, and run with a support/control allys. Example, glamour/timestop mesmer, CC guardian(or control engi). 2v1. mesmer+me, we can duo 5-10 with ease. Feedback and timestop. Reflect counters reflect. time stop means my damage will be supreme. 10k dps with g1 alone. Temporal curtain, or guardian aoe knockdowns. The sustained damage potential of g1 and g2 are way way too high, with grenadier.

Nope, pretty sure it was nerfed after todays update. I have no idea why but they did it.

WvW resets each Friday night. Did you log in earlier today and still had higher HPs than now?

No I had 27k without logging into WvW. I have no idea what happened – as I had double pistol / condition build and that was the reason I did not want kits – 27k (with grenade kit i had 25k – i remember it as I tried this build before). And today, after update it is 25k with the same build i had 27k. Have no idea what happened – anyone else had this ? Its annoying, as I should have my 27k hp not some 25k…

pls,make a screenshot of your gear and the total ammount of vitality pressing “h”.

My HP are are 18,6k ; they never changed.

Also,on what server do you play?Can you answer this pls?I’d like to search your previus server bonuses.

Even if you NEVER joined WvW ,the bonus that your server gain there,are applied to PvE player.This is what the other are trying to explain.

Post the screenshot of your character statistic pls.It will help us understand.

Regards.

AAA, I did not know this (i tought u guys are talking about wvw bonuses (like orb one):
my vitality is
1861

That would be difficult to refer to orb bonuses since they removed orbs all together

Like was said in the 2nd post

why not do some research?

Hello.
I made some test with vitality gear,seems there is nothing wrong and there are no change at the engineer vitality math.
In order to have 27k hp ,your vitality must be over 2100.
I tested in PvE with some blue gear,and in heart of the mist,with PvP jewels.
Nothing wrong.
With 1800 vitality is pretty normal have around 23/24k hp only(that means if you have 1800 vitality and 25+k hp,your server have some vitality bonus even now!!!).
Consider every 100 vitality point there are 1000 hp bonus.

As someone already stated,may be you were under the effect of some passive WvW bonus,earned from your server during the week.

Even if my base HP is 18,6k,last week due to my server rank and bonus in WvW i was around 20k hp (blacktide server,you can check the bonuses of last week with some google research).

NOTE : if your server have some bonus,during your PvE session,there will be NO icon advertising the bonus!!!
A simply way to understand if you are under the effect of some WvW bonus,is check your gear statistics,go into the heart of the mist(where WvW bonus don’t effect you anymore) ,repruduce the same statistics and check the result.

I apologize for my english. I hope now you can be sure that Anet didn’t make any change at our(engineers) vitality.
Regards!

The Entire “Kit” mechanic was a last minute thing to give Engineers more weapons, with out having to add them for other classes.

They need to scrap it, so long as they have a “Kit” mechanic engineers will be subpar. Think about it for a minute. If there was a Grenade Weapon, a MedKit weapon, etc, etc would we be in a better spot?

Our class “mechanic” was a bandaid to prevent Arena Net from having to do extra work, and it shows.

Mercy kill it before it wrecks the class for good. It is still close enough to release to fix, but the longer you go the harder it will be to fix.

Xae.7204:

They need to scrap it, so long as they have a “Kit” mechanic engineers will be subpar. Think about it for a minute. If there was a Grenade Weapon, a MedKit weapon, etc, etc would we be in a better spot?

The kit mechanic is great. If you dislike one of the classes main mechanics, it seems extremely irrational to demand they do overhauling changes to the class just to suit your needs. This whole rebuild the class to suit me and the rest of you be hosed, is embarrassingly ridiculous.

Xae.7204:

The Entire “Kit” mechanic was a last minute thing to give Engineers more weapons, with out having to add them for other classes.

They need to scrap it, so long as they have a “Kit” mechanic engineers will be subpar. Think about it for a minute. If there was a Grenade Weapon, a MedKit weapon, etc, etc would we be in a better spot?

Our class “mechanic” was a bandaid to prevent Arena Net from having to do extra work, and it shows.

Mercy kill it before it wrecks the class for good. It is still close enough to release to fix, but the longer you go the harder it will be to fix.

Not quite. Kits are different then weapon swaps. No cooldown. Multiple kits.
A thief can’t have shortbow, d/d AND s/p.

We CAN have p/p, grenade AND flamethower. if we wanted to.
Of course, part of the problem is traits don’t accommodate that at all.
FT and EG use similar traits. About the only ones that do have cross use potential.

One thought I had was to simply give the engineers 2 weapon switch options but allow one or both of the weapon switchs to be kits. Kits can then no longer be one the utility bar.

This would limit the concerns about folks running multiple kits that do everything.

The problem is that this would require significant re-balancing of the toolbelt mechanic. (perhaps, but maybe not, toolbelt skills in general are relatively weak compared to other class mechanics, with some notable exceptions).

Casia.4281:

Xae.7204:

The Entire “Kit” mechanic was a last minute thing to give Engineers more weapons, with out having to add them for other classes.

They need to scrap it, so long as they have a “Kit” mechanic engineers will be subpar. Think about it for a minute. If there was a Grenade Weapon, a MedKit weapon, etc, etc would we be in a better spot?

Our class “mechanic” was a bandaid to prevent Arena Net from having to do extra work, and it shows.

Mercy kill it before it wrecks the class for good. It is still close enough to release to fix, but the longer you go the harder it will be to fix.

Not quite. Kits are different then weapon swaps. No cooldown. Multiple kits.
A thief can’t have shortbow, d/d AND s/p.

We CAN have p/p, grenade AND flamethower. if we wanted to.
Of course, part of the problem is traits don’t accommodate that at all.
FT and EG use similar traits. About the only ones that do have cross use potential.

Sure, Engineers have the “potential” to have more weapon sets, but how often does a viable spec run them?

The most popular specs in WvW, PvE and SPvP almost all have one kit and one kit only.

I almost wonder if it would be better to have Kits on F1 and F2, with a spec to open up F3 or even F4 to switch, but to give “real” Utility skills.

I still do not understand why people are so negative about tool kit dps. It is a little bit low compared to grenade and bomb, that’s true, but it is a great kit.

With the pull changes and the buff to gear shield it is now a great tool for countering thieves / kiters.

If you play smart you can use net shot / throw wrench to bait dodges at range, and then swap / pull them in for a pry bar 1-2 hits, before swapping back to rifle for blunderbuss / net shot.

If you pair it with elixir U you can get super fast magnets that are hard to spot / dodge, that lead into a fast 3 hit + pry bar.

You can also run the quickness sigil for this. Use rifle to proc the sigil then do a quick pull / burst.

Karast.1927:

I still do not understand why people are so negative about tool kit dps. It is a little bit low compared to grenade and bomb, that’s true, but it is a great kit.

The dps is simply lower than the rifle’s (if you build for the rifle), on top of that it’s melee, so inherently more risky.
You can’t make up for the loss in stats that exotic weapons give but kits don’t (apart from grenades because of one specific trait and the great scaling).

I love the toolkit and am happy with the changes, which is why I use the toolkit in my rifle build. For the utility in #4 & 5 and to a lesser extent #3 & 2, not for the dps because it’s simply sub par (and the auto-attack is just awkwardly slow).

Karast.1927:

I still do not understand why people are so negative about tool kit dps. It is a little bit low compared to grenade and bomb, that’s true, but it is a great kit.

With the pull changes and the buff to gear shield it is now a great tool for countering thieves / kiters.

If you play smart you can use net shot / throw wrench to bait dodges at range, and then swap / pull them in for a pry bar 1-2 hits, before swapping back to rifle for blunderbuss / net shot.

If you pair it with elixir U you can get super fast magnets that are hard to spot / dodge, that lead into a fast 3 hit + pry bar.

You can also run the quickness sigil for this. Use rifle to proc the sigil then do a quick pull / burst.

Because it is a mishmash of Condition and Power Damage. Auto attack scales on power only, while the other damaging abilities (2 and 3) scale on condition damage.
In addition the 1 second swing on Thack makes it nearly useless in PvP.

So what cripples the damage of toolkit is poor design, and poor design frustrates a good engineer.

Xae.7204:

Karast.1927:

I still do not understand why people are so negative about tool kit dps. It is a little bit low compared to grenade and bomb, that’s true, but it is a great kit.

With the pull changes and the buff to gear shield it is now a great tool for countering thieves / kiters.

If you play smart you can use net shot / throw wrench to bait dodges at range, and then swap / pull them in for a pry bar 1-2 hits, before swapping back to rifle for blunderbuss / net shot.

If you pair it with elixir U you can get super fast magnets that are hard to spot / dodge, that lead into a fast 3 hit + pry bar.

You can also run the quickness sigil for this. Use rifle to proc the sigil then do a quick pull / burst.

Because it is a mishmash of Condition and Power Damage. Auto attack scales on power only, while the other damaging abilities (2 and 3) scale on condition damage.
In addition the 1 second swing on Thack makes it nearly useless in PvP.

So what cripples the damage of toolkit is poor design, and poor design frustrates a good engineer.

To just point this out there is no weapon or kit on the engineer that is not bogged down by having half of it’s abilities not split between power and condition damage.

FT / Grenade / Bomb / Rifle / Pistol / EG / Tool, heck even the turrets fall pray to this.

Xae.7204:

Karast.1927:

I still do not understand why people are so negative about tool kit dps. It is a little bit low compared to grenade and bomb, that’s true, but it is a great kit.

With the pull changes and the buff to gear shield it is now a great tool for countering thieves / kiters.

If you play smart you can use net shot / throw wrench to bait dodges at range, and then swap / pull them in for a pry bar 1-2 hits, before swapping back to rifle for blunderbuss / net shot.

If you pair it with elixir U you can get super fast magnets that are hard to spot / dodge, that lead into a fast 3 hit + pry bar.

You can also run the quickness sigil for this. Use rifle to proc the sigil then do a quick pull / burst.

Because it is a mishmash of Condition and Power Damage. Auto attack scales on power only, while the other damaging abilities (2 and 3) scale on condition damage.
In addition the 1 second swing on Thack makes it nearly useless in PvP.

So what cripples the damage of toolkit is poor design, and poor design frustrates a good engineer.

eeeh..what?

1 is: power, .8,.8,1.75
2 is: cc, who cares about the bleed.
3 is: 2p coeff on direct, and 3 stacks of confuse. so very high power scaling, and very good cond as well.
4 and 5 dont deal damage.
toolbelt is: .75p x2.
So uh. 3 power moves. 1 is 50/50 power/cond. Pretty clearly power focused.

1 is aoe aoe, single target. yeah thats lame. should be all aoe. Most melee moves in the game are aoe. the attack speed is disengenous. .8s,.8s,1s. The bar makes it look like its much longer, and the poorly labeled recast timer. its not .5s, .5s, 1s. its .8,.8,1
3 is single target. again, should be aoe.
Most other melee skills have a mega aoe hit that roots you in place. tools doesnt.

Problems. No stun/root. Have to rely on a utility for this.
30 in tools. 10% damage with full end. wth? if you are in melee, you are going to be dodging alot. Swap with empowered adren? Explosives should have 5% damage when your end is full, and tool should have +10% when its NOT.
People think its tied to turrets due to the heal.

Rifle, pistol, ft, bombs, etc. its all melee. without the “actually” being melee of wrench as well.

If you just ignore the damage of 2 on ToolKit it goes to show how bad the kit is.

There are then two abilities that do damage.

I would change the Toolkit 3 to an immobilize , and Tool Kit #2 to be a field that does damage when the target moves, scaling on power. That would get rid of the stat split for one kit.

1 Kit down, 3 Kits and 2 Weapons to go.

eh. Rifle
rifle 2 has no damage.
rifle 3 is good burst damage.
r4 has damage, but honestly I use it entirely for the knockback. Same as tk2. You could remove r4’s damage, and it would have zero effect on my opinion of rifle or its effectiveness.
r5. same deal. yes, it has a ton of damage on it. but, man. I dont think I have EVER used it to actually deal damage to anything.
Id say in reality rifle has 2 damage moves.
Grenade. 3 has no damage, 4 is poison.
3 damaging moves. (+toolbelt, which tk also has a strong toolbelt you didnt count)

I don’t know, that confuse is nearly my favorite part.

Lets see. how about:

30 inventions. energized(60power naked with 30 inv, power shoes, rifled turret barrels.
20 tools. deployable/powertools
10 firearms. sitting duck.
10 alch. self regulating. (worth it for elixir b at 75% alone)

healing turret, toolket, net, flame, supplydrop
healing gives a water field. flame a smoke field.

Rifle gives another net. setting up melee attacks, and scales very well with power.
chain CC. net, kd, pull. lol. Leap on jump will heal in a water field, and stealth in smoke. Net→blunderbuss→overcharged→throw wrench→pull→jump. ouch.
mist water is really short I think?

Pistol/S Double confuse. Blind on static. Reflect shield, KB+blast that doesnt use up your turrets. reflect-stun and daze

Sounds pretty fun honestly.

If you aren’t using Rifle 5 for damage you are doing it wrong.

uhm. well it does less damage then grenades. And in completely unweildy, so no. I’m not.
Factor in the air time, delay/tell making it easy to avoid., tiny aoe.

Rifle 5 is good for PvE, but the animation issues kill it for PvP. If it didn’t have that 1.5 second “stomp” at the end before the damage hit it would be much more useful.

I agree R5 is about useless in pvp unless you are stomping a noob that stands still. I rallied last night and when I got up, of course, grenades had deactivated and I was in rifle. I tried r5 to get to a guy, I just ended up where he had been. Swapped back to grenades and got down to business.

@Casia – I’m sure it’s a typo but above you put “Grenade. 3 has no damage, 4 is poison.” No doubt you meant G3 has no damage, G4 is damage and chill and G5 is poison.

It’s also worth mentioning that G4 has a wide radius, way bigger than G1 and bigger than G2.

Something new (to me) since the patch, and I’m curious about the findings of other engi’s;

Barrage:

The tooltip says (or used to I haven’t looked at it in game post patch) radius 150 range 900 etc. Perhaps I wasn’t paying attention before, but I never noticed a radius appearing on the ground where I was throwing my barrage and the pattern used to be random.

Now, the radius appears to be more like 240 and the pattern is no longer random. It now appears to me to be a very uniform spread. To me this translates into me not being able to use it to burst a single person like I could before. It will still blow up several people packed together, but it just seems like it really spreads the damage around more where it didn’t before.

I didn’t see anything in the notes regarding this, or am I just way off base here?

Toolkit :

I love the new Toolkit. I personnaly think people underestimated that Kit. Engineer aren’t made to use one kill/weapon as our only source of damage, you have to swap between weapon and kits to be effective.

I agree that I rarely use #1 of tool kit, as it hiting too slow, but who care, I’m not using toolkit to auto attack.

tk #2 with kit refinement is amazing. Somoene chase you, just swap to tool kit, free snare + gear shield.

tk #3 damage are inferior? What? I am the only one that ever critted with that weapon? I’m not full exotic yet, and I’m not using full berserk ether, but I can crit for around 4 – 4.5k on #3. It might be lucky shot on glass cannon, but that still amazing damage. And I’m not even counting confusion.

tk#4 A low cooldown 3 sec block? Yes sir! Can’t count how many time it saved my life. And with the combo I explained at #1, you can escape a lot of people.

tk #5 Aaaamazing skill in WvW. I use it in 50% of my gank. Somoene is hiding in their zerg? Pull him! Somoene is attacking you from the wall? Pull him! Somoene is running away… pull him again! Saving your ally from a melee is incredible. Seriously, this skill is gold. It was useless before as the range and the cast time were bad, but now it’s perfect.

And what about rifle? How can you bad mouth the rifle? A rifle with so many different utilities.

r #1 Average auto attack, not bad.

r #2 Low cooldown net? Really useful for most combo. Hard to land sometime, but still, some combo like rifle #5 require it.

r #3 This shot does incredible damage at short range. A really good dps skill just after you used #5.

r #4 knockback the ennemy for an enormous amount of time, free you of entangle, escape mecanisme. And to who ever said you could remove r#4 damage, did you check the damage it could do? I can hit 3k damage with it, how is that not useful?

r #5 Multiple way to use this skill. Net the ennmy and combo for nasty damage (can be hard to land) and close the gab, to follow with grenade barage, r#3 and r#4. You can also use it escape people. it’s like a weird way to dodge people attack, or run away. It’s also a combo finisher And Puzzle Jumper love it, free jump

Seriously, I might be over the board a bit since I come back from playing my necro alt for 1 month, but Engineer after the update is incredible. Well at least for the toolkit and the rifle.

Nothing to whine about!

Bleeds.4029:

I agree R5 is about useless in pvp unless you are stomping a noob that stands still. I rallied last night and when I got up, of course, grenades had deactivated and I was in rifle. I tried r5 to get to a guy, I just ended up where he had been. Swapped back to grenades and got down to business.

@Casia – I’m sure it’s a typo but above you put “Grenade. 3 has no damage, 4 is poison.” No doubt you meant G3 has no damage, G4 is damage and chill and G5 is poison.

It’s also worth mentioning that G4 has a wide radius, way bigger than G1 and bigger than G2.

Opps. yeah. Meant 5 is poison. Frost deals the same amount as G1 normally, and the same as g1 and g2 in spvp.

the larger aoe on frost is very important for hitting mortars, trebs, etc on wall in wvw.

The engineer fluff that came last patch makes me feel as if I took my car in to the garage because the brakes wouldn’t work while turning left, and after 3 months all they have done is change the wiper blades and write down an itemised bill with 30 individual steps about how they changed the wiper blades.

“took new wiper blade box off shelf”
“opened new wiper blade box”
“removed new wiper blades from plastic housing”
“placed new wiper blades on bench ready to be attached”
“located old wiper blades on car”
“walked over to old wiper blades at car”
etc etc etc……….