Guild Wars 2

Hello, i wanted to share this video with the engineer community, since it seems that most people are not satisfied with the damage of the class.

I made it for fun so it’s nothing serious (tpvp, build guide or stuff like that) but it shows some big crits, some group fights, 1vX clips, some 1v1 vs “infamous” builds and a bonus level 15 guardian in wvw clip XD with music.
I hope you enjoy.

Diliria [HxH] (Ring of Fire).

Build: (copy-paste)
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VW70;0B-sPFn0l6gSFx0;9;5T-9T;1283;10;0157I;2R;0G3G3G3G35Bc

Full berserker with rune of the scholar and sigil of superior air.

hey Iddiozzia

This looks promising. Would you mind sharing your build? I didn’t notice you showing it in your video.
Also, armor and set up would be nice.
I may need to dust off my 80 engineer.

thanks!

Looks like she is running a class cannon build. Probably going down the precision tree, maybe full on donw the tool.

Yeah this build is very situational I feel. Good awesome video to watch. But they were either underleveled, or you just got the jump on em (though that fight vs the perma theif made me laugh).

Just in case the devs watch this video, this doesn’t mean we need to be nerfed, so please don’t nerf. Our class still needs a ton of work before it can be considereed good. The guardian portion of this video more symbolizes the problems with the class balance more than anything.

Deified.7520:

Looks like she is running a class cannon build. Probably going down the precision tree, maybe full on donw the tool.

Yeah this build is very situational I feel. Good awesome video to watch. But they were either underleveled, or you just got the jump on em (though that fight vs the perma theif made me laugh).

Just in case the devs watch this video, this doesn’t mean we need to be nerfed, so please don’t nerf. Our class still needs a ton of work before it can be considereed good. The guardian portion of this video more symbolizes the problems with the class balance more than anything.

Ofc, it’s a decent skirmishing build in wvw, but almost pointless in large group fights (as it doesn’t bring anything to the team) and completely glass cannon so since unlike thieves we’re not invisible when you get jumped, you just die.
And in spvp it doesn’t do this much damage.

P.s.
Added build & gear set.

Just to add a bit of perspective to this as a former Engineer (from launch) who finally got the hint and rolled Warrior, here’s a Rifle Warrior.

900 toughness and 19k hp! Need I even say more?

Sure, it’s glass cannon and no real build option for me personally BUT I wanna thank you for the video as it feels kittening good seeing those numbers again in those tough times xD
I also really enjoyed the music, especially the first song!

Greeting from a fellow engineer from RoF and the alliance If u ever feel like doing some nerd-theorycrafting on engineer, whisper me ingame after tuesday!

Deified.7520:

Looks like she is running a class cannon build. Probably going down the precision tree, maybe full on donw the tool.

Yeah this build is very situational I feel. Good awesome video to watch. But they were either underleveled, or you just got the jump on em (though that fight vs the perma theif made me laugh).

Just in case the devs watch this video, this doesn’t mean we need to be nerfed, so please don’t nerf. Our class still needs a ton of work before it can be considereed good. The guardian portion of this video more symbolizes the problems with the class balance more than anything.

I agree, I hope the devs are not stupid enough to nerf us again because GC Rifle build looks OP when it’s fighting up-leveled/light armor classes. This is probably a 20/20/0/0/30 or 10/30/0/0/30 basic glass cannon build.

BTW I love how you used the build, especially against that kitten perma invi thief, probably the favorite class of Anet devs second to warrior. He pretty much got owned there. You pretty much have mastered the GC Rifle build for the class IMO.

Also, lvl 15 guardian owning lvl 80s was hilarious

i don’t really think being squishy is exactly smart for a roaming set up. especially because you have no idea what you’ll run into.

Fun videos. The rifle war one really made me laugh w/editing & music + ridiculous hits.

My server just went down a tier this last week in wvw and i gotta say im hitting maybe 1k less chain lighting w/2.7k armor & 20k hp. funny stuff

Question on the traits tho- any reason for the vigor & adrenal implant stacking? I’m pretty sure last I heard as well as tested they don’t stack

Ghostpilot.6237:

Just to add a bit of perspective to this as a former Engineer (from launch) who finally got the hint and rolled Warrior, here’s a Rifle Warrior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLTzyn6CGHw

That video was hilarious and very well edited. Thank you very much for making it.
+1 for enjoyment and hopefully perspective for all these engineers who think we are fine lol

Did you see that warrior do anything special to get 15k+ crits with the rifle?
I surely didn’t.

have you tried rocket boots instead of googles?

Force sigil should also be more damage then sigil of air as well.

Casia.4281:

have you tried rocket boots instead of googles?

Force sigil should also be more damage then sigil of air as well.

I’ve been running with a very similar build in sPvP lately, and I have tried rocket boots. I dropped it in favor of the goggles because the toolbelt for the boots is only 300 range, and I’d much rather have that extra punch at a distance.

When you say more damage (for the Force sigil), do you mean sustained damage? I imagine the Force sigil would provide more damage over time, but Air, despite the RNG of it, would yield higher burst.

Iddiozzia.3489:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqYP7sFYG8c

Hello, i wanted to share this video with the engineer community, since it seems that most people are not satisfied with the damage of the class.

I made it for fun so it’s nothing serious (tpvp, build guide or stuff like that) but it shows some big crits, some group fights, 1vX clips, some 1v1 vs “infamous” builds and a bonus level 15 guardian in wvw clip XD with music.
I hope you enjoy.

Diliria [HxH] (Ring of Fire).

Build: (copy-paste)
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VW70;0B-sPFn0l6gSFx0;9;5T-9T;1283;10;015BI;2R;0G3G3G3G35BR

Full berserker with rune of the scholar and sigil of superior air.

Thanks I’ll try this out with some modifications for pve. hopefully it will work out much better then the other ones.

Good video.

Ghostpilot.6237:

Just to add a bit of perspective to this as a former Engineer (from launch) who finally got the hint and rolled Warrior, here’s a Rifle Warrior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLTzyn6CGHw

That’s it. Im done. Rerolling something else. After watching both videos I can’t hold out any longer haha.

Vigor and Adrenal Implant do not stack in sPvP. I haven’t tested in PvE/WvW, but you may be wasting a tier 3 trait.

Is there a reason why you have Infused Precision and Speedy Kits?

Deified.7520:

Ghostpilot.6237:

Just to add a bit of perspective to this as a former Engineer (from launch) who finally got the hint and rolled Warrior, here’s a Rifle Warrior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLTzyn6CGHw

That’s it. Im done. Rerolling something else. After watching both videos I can’t hold out any longer haha.

So after watching a 100% glass cannon one trick pony warrior attack people from safe place’s most of the time, hitting people running a way, and is showcaseing nothing else but “Hey if my enemies is stupid or don’t notice what I’m doing I can pew pew them”, and afterwards watch a quite well made video with a Engineer doing a way better job in harder fight’s you want to reroll? Goes for the rest of you guy’s in the thread that compare, you really think big number’s is what make a class good or not? <.< (Not that the Engineer movie is much more then huge number’s to, but at least some of the footage is actually a good fight vs a skilled player, and not just random shooting at fleeing enemies)

Amadeus.5687:

Deified.7520:

Ghostpilot.6237:

Just to add a bit of perspective to this as a former Engineer (from launch) who finally got the hint and rolled Warrior, here’s a Rifle Warrior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLTzyn6CGHw

That’s it. Im done. Rerolling something else. After watching both videos I can’t hold out any longer haha.

So after watching a 100% glass cannon one trick pony warrior attack people from safe place’s most of the time, hitting people running a way, and is showcaseing nothing else but “Hey if my enemies is stupid or don’t notice what I’m doing I can pew pew them”, and afterwards watch a quite well made video with a Engineer doing a way better job in harder fight’s you want to reroll? Goes for the rest of you guy’s in the thread that compare, you really think big number’s is what make a class good or not? <.< (Not that the Engineer movie is much more then huge number’s to, but at least some of the footage is actually a good fight vs a skilled player, and not just random shooting at fleeing enemies)

Do you even realize that the point of posting that warrior GC build video was to compare how a Warrior who does nothing special still beats a very skilled Engineer in terms of damage output?

Amadeus.5687:

So after watching a 100% glass cannon one trick pony warrior attack people from safe place’s most of the time, hitting people running a way, and is showcaseing nothing else but “Hey if my enemies is stupid or don’t notice what I’m doing I can pew pew them”, and afterwards watch a quite well made video with a Engineer doing a way better job in harder fight’s you want to reroll? Goes for the rest of you guy’s in the thread that compare, you really think big number’s is what make a class good or not? <.< (Not that the Engineer movie is much more then huge number’s to, but at least some of the footage is actually a good fight vs a skilled player, and not just random shooting at fleeing enemies)

Well, both videos showcase glass cannon one-trick pony builds (static discharge vs kill shot). Except one of them is really a glass BFG9000 build. And well, at the end of the day, yes bigger numbers do determine who the victor is. Sure, WvW is not all about killing a single target, but hey, it sure cannot hurt your team when you run around one-shotting the other guys.

Even though I’ve been enjoying this engineering gig since BWE2, I just might take the hint too :/

Not sure why people are concluding Warrior is a better class. If the glass cannons in these two videos ever met in combat, the Engineer wins pretty easily.

I pretty much use the exact same thing, except I run the auto elixir S potion (for avoiding thief mega burst combo when I can’t otherwise avoid it and being zerg bombed) and elixir S instead of goggles as well on top for doubling up to run away to safety, as well as using sigil of fire instead of air for more aoe damage for the group fights. So it’s a little more aoe and survivable instead of single target burst in comparison. It works well though, been using it a long time now.

I also use blind on crit with the rifle instead of speed, as I find speedy kits is enough for me.

Destroyer.1306:

Not sure why people are concluding Warrior is a better class. If the glass cannons in these two videos ever met in combat, the Engineer wins pretty easily.

Let’s see… no special tactics/setup or whatever, GC Warrior would 1 shot GC Engineer before he is in the engineer’s range.

What sort of blows my mind is that the Engineer community is so abused that they’re calling a quick string of 3k crits on a glass cannon spec with no diversity in its utilities “good burst damage.” This is not good burst damage. Then someone posts a very simple warrior video where a single button press greatly exceeds that burst to demonstrate how mediocre this burst actually is, and people complain about his lack of skill.

People need to realize what’s going on here. They need to disentangle their sense of investment in the class with the efficacy of the class. They probably need to play some other classes so they realize that very few classes are the “easy mode” that they’re so proudly claiming Engineer isn’t.

KirinDave.6451:

What sort of blows my mind is that the Engineer community is so abused that they’re calling a quick string of 3k crits on a glass cannon spec with no diversity in its utilities “good burst damage.” This is not good burst damage. Then someone posts a very simple warrior video where a single button press greatly exceeds that burst to demonstrate how mediocre this burst actually is, and people complain about his lack of skill.

People need to realize what’s going on here. They need to disentangle their sense of investment in the class with the efficacy of the class. They probably need to play some other classes so they realize that very few classes are the “easy mode” that they’re so proudly claiming Engineer isn’t.

Thank you. Finally someone that gets it.

gkaare.8576:

Vigor and Adrenal Implant do not stack in sPvP. I haven’t tested in PvE/WvW, but you may be wasting a tier 3 trait.

Is there a reason why you have Infused Precision and Speedy Kits?

You are right,
I remember it stacking only while in combat back then (in pve) but i tested it now and even in combat it doest not work anymore.
Thanks for the info, it’s funny how i wasted the tier 3 trait for so long time xD.

The specific traits in the build are the ones that i used in the video, i often swap em on the situation.
The reason i use infused precision and speedy kits together in wvw is to have a more concrete sprint and sustained dps in any possible situation since endurance is not only your survivability but also a 10 % damage boost when it’s full, in wvw enemies are more spread and tend to run away, that’s why any gain in mobility for me it’s gold.
It’s more a choice based on personal taste than real utility.
In Spvp i would swap both rifle range and infused precision to blind on crit and probably rifle recharge rate since in close range rifle skills are pretty good.
And probably i would also drop the last 5 points on tools for the bomb on dodge, that combined with perma-vigor and full power gear,deals quite good damage.

Guys dont post videos like that or we will be nerfed again..

Kyon.9735:

Destroyer.1306:

Not sure why people are concluding Warrior is a better class. If the glass cannons in these two videos ever met in combat, the Engineer wins pretty easily.

Let’s see… no special tactics/setup or whatever, GC Warrior would 1 shot GC Engineer before he is in the engineer’s range.

Oh, please. Kill Shot has the most obvious wind up in the history of video games. He literally has to kneel down and wait almost two seconds. The Engineer can skip and dance to any range he wants, all invincible like with Gear Shield, and then lay the smack down far quicker than the Warrior can. Plus, the Engineer has Supply Crate while the Warrior Elite is essentially a slightly-improved Elixir B he already used. Glass cannon rifle Warriors are truly useless creatures if anyone is paying attention to them.

And while Volley is equally easy to dodge, no one is going to dodge 7 hits that are instantaneous from the Engineer unless they are super lucky. (Analyze, Suprise Shot, Throw Wrench, SDx3, Sigil of Air.)

KirinDave.6451:

What sort of blows my mind is that the Engineer community is so abused that they’re calling a quick string of 3k crits on a glass cannon spec with no diversity in its utilities “good burst damage.” This is not good burst damage. Then someone posts a very simple warrior video where a single button press greatly exceeds that burst to demonstrate how mediocre this burst actually is, and people complain about his lack of skill.

People need to realize what’s going on here. They need to disentangle their sense of investment in the class with the efficacy of the class. They probably need to play some other classes so they realize that very few classes are the “easy mode” that they’re so proudly claiming Engineer isn’t.

3k?
wrench is 6kx2, discharge is 2. One skill for 14k. Also, not a 3second cast.
7k+2k bleed blunderbuss. 12k leaps.
kick instead of googles is 3k kick, 2k discharge. (and CC break+blast combo on utility)
3-4k auto attack.

The rifle war has no CC, no mobility. its all +might utility skills. THAT is where its damage is coming from.

The rifle/discharge engi has higher scaling. if someone gave the engi 25 stacks of might, the engi would do way more damage then that war.

I mentioned that the grenade nerf made builds that were overshadowed by it move viable. And frankly, I have been running a discharge/rifle build myself since.
There are 2 options though. 30 tools vs 30 alch. Tools is more burst as seen here. but oh man are you so soft. The alch build gives 3000 hp, 409. Better buffs on H. protection, regen. Possibly elixir U for haste as well.

I mean, don’t get me wrong. killshot peircing is a bit odd.
The very high uptime on all those might stacks is a bit odd.
12% damage in a t1 trait is odd. Design choices I would not have made. and probably should be looked at.

Casia.4281:

3k?

That’s around the mean, yeah.

Casia.4281:

wrench is 6kx2, discharge is 2. One skill for 14k. Also, not a 3second cast.When5 stacks of might, the engi would do way more damage then that war.

Even against the upleveled targets wrench seldom hits that hard. Watch the video again. And killshot is an incredibly better set of mechanics than our Rifle 5. Citing 3sec cast when the alternative is a slow, telegraphed, ground-targetted skill that should only ever hit against immobilized opponents (and how many immos does this build rock? 1.)

This video is a good player using a substandard class. It’s somewhat ironic that it’s then paired with a upleveled guardian doing similarly well. Meanwhile what other classes consider “simple” burst patterns (e.g., the increasingly popular dagger/focus elementalist) exceeds everything this build can do in terms of burst while also having better survivability.

Casia.4281:

I mean, don’t get me wrong. killshot peircing is a bit odd.
The very high uptime on all those might stacks is a bit odd.
12% damage in a t1 trait is odd. Design choices I would not have made. and probably should be looked at.

Look, all this is out of scope for this thread. What’s in scope is this: The engineer build seen in this video does a lot to achieve what it does, has nearly all its utility skills dictated by the build (and only 1 of the utility slots is really a great choice, let’s not knock toolkit).

What is sacrificed, first and foremost, is a sense of being an engineer. Most of the swapping and flexibility mechanics are discarded to create this build. This build is basically trying to rebuild a rifle burst warrior, but with a result that is harder to use, higher risk, and sacrifices what few concessions to the class theme we have in our class mechanics. In this build, you play a rife warrior with fewer projectiles.

It’s not a fun build. It’s not a good build. It’s not a particularly effective build.

And I don’t mean to come down hard on you in particular with this point, but what people in the forums should be shouting for is not so much higher numbers, but to tune the skills we have so that we can play our class with the feel that was advertised. I am not demanding a T1 class because I cannot unsee the math (though I can’t). I am asking for a class that I like to play.

KirinDave.6451:

Casia.4281:

3k?

That’s around the mean, yeah.

Casia.4281:

wrench is 6kx2, discharge is 2. One skill for 14k. Also, not a 3second cast.When5 stacks of might, the engi would do way more damage then that war.

Even against the upleveled targets wrench seldom hits that hard. Watch the video again. And killshot is an incredibly better set of mechanics than our Rifle 5. Citing 3sec cast when the alternative is a slow, telegraphed, ground-targetted skill that should only ever hit against immobilized opponents (and how many immos does this build rock? 1.)

This video is a good player using a substandard class. It’s somewhat ironic that it’s then paired with a upleveled guardian doing similarly well. Meanwhile what other classes consider “simple” burst patterns (e.g., the increasingly popular dagger/focus elementalist) exceeds everything this build can do in terms of burst while also having better survivability.

Casia.4281:

I mean, don’t get me wrong. killshot peircing is a bit odd.
The very high uptime on all those might stacks is a bit odd.
12% damage in a t1 trait is odd. Design choices I would not have made. and probably should be looked at.

Look, all this is out of scope for this thread. What’s in scope is this: The engineer build seen in this video does a lot to achieve what it does, has nearly all its utility skills dictated by the build (and only 1 of the utility slots is really a great choice, let’s not knock toolkit).

What is sacrificed, first and foremost, is a sense of being an engineer. Most of the swapping and flexibility mechanics are discarded to create this build. This build is basically trying to rebuild a rifle burst warrior, but with a result that is harder to use, higher risk, and sacrifices what few concessions to the class theme we have in our class mechanics. In this build, you play a rife warrior with fewer projectiles.

It’s not a fun build. It’s not a good build. It’s not a particularly effective build.

And I don’t mean to come down hard on you in particular with this point, but what people in the forums should be shouting for is not so much higher numbers, but to tune the skills we have so that we can play our class with the feel that was advertised. I am not demanding a T1 class because I cannot unsee the math (though I can’t). I am asking for a class that I like to play.

The war is using food, etc.
Do the same with throw wrench and it definitely does get up to 6k. each.

and comparing killshot mechanics to leap mechanics. so not even the same ballpark. why would you even begin?

The engineer build basically does exactly the same as that warrior. build a glass cannon. Full % damage traits, runes, sigils.
That war has a bit more health and armor due to being a war, but also has almost no CC. (melee kb, and cripple) has no stun breaker. all its utility and elite are spent on might stacking.
You accuse the engi of doing that, yet has supply drop still, Toolkit utility, and a stun breaker. (I would go further and recommend rocket boots over goggles as noted though. blast combo, stun breaker, CC break. more damage. )

Have you played a rifle warrior? Seriously, engi rifle is better. 20k every 10s, on a 3s cast is not as good as chain firing wrench, suprise shots, or the higher raw damage on engi.
As well as net shot, blunderbuss, and overcharged.
More damage, more control.

We can take another damage hit, and go alch instead of tools, and increase our utility and survival dramatically, as well.

There are lots of things to complain about.
This is not one of them. Our rifle builds are fine. turrets being messed up, is not fine. kit damage in general, is not fine. Flame thower especially. Pistols are not fine.
If we want to point at something in the war line, as stated, its the self might stacking that is really creating those 20k kill shot scenarios. Killshot getting piercing is a bit nuts of course as well.

I was going to fisk the post, but I realized it’s a nice holiday and so you deserve better than some cheap line-by-line response.

The point of that warrior video was to get 20k killshots, which is pretty absurd burst at the range it can be done with piercing. You can build a great, bursty GC rifle warrior that is fairly survivable too. It can easily match unaided Engineer damage while maintaining range.

This burst damage is middle-of-the-road compared to what other burst classes can do. There are a few reasons why; part of it is that the big-hit style of burst often bypasses %-health-trait triggers which can change the fight pretty dramatically. It narrows the margin for error on your opponent.

You keep saying engineer rifle is “fine”, but in the context of the whole class it is not fine. The only builds where it currently makes sense are your kinds of glass rifle builds (because kit and tank builds benefit more from multiple non-cooldown-sharing runes). And those builds are substantially more fragile than other classes’s GC builds, because they cannot maintain range and have to sacrifice auto-attacks and control attacks for their defense mechanisms.

The saving grace of the glass rifle engineer is that most people are so used to engineers being thick that they don’t really understand what you’re doing. This is in no small part due to the fact that the engineer population is small and seems to be decreasing. The engineer burst is so protracted, there are a lot of ways to mitigate it. Personally, I make a point of finding and destroying burst engineers with my upleveled elementalist in WvW. That build is by far the glassiest and weakest of the glass cannons and easiest to drop, you just need to break one stun and one easily-dodgable immobilize and they’re entirely tapped out.

@Kyon do you even realise that the warrior in that video have one thing you need to dodge (which is insane easy to dodge) and is worth jackkitten when he miss that shot? He is so easy to counter that my 11 year old sister could beat him! The Engineer ain’t a one trick pony, seeing as he don’t suffer even half the amount of pain that the warrior would do if his Kill Shot miss! It’s stupid to compare two weapon’s that ain’t supposed to do the same and whine over one do more direct damage compared to the engineer rifle! Casia pretty much nail the situation about how it works
(also, the warrior is doing a lot, actually every single trait, gear stat and rune is taken to make max damage output, which again leads back to my point: He would loose any decent 1va1 because he got nothing when his Kill Shot is dodged/Blocked/reflected. The same goes for the engineer, which end up doing pretty close to the same amount of damage over a bit longer period, but with more CC and tricks up his sleeve, which I would take anyday)

@KirinDave you should start hunt these Rifle warrior’s seeing as they are even easier to destroy, since they got NOTHING to do when you target them… That pretty much sum up most glass cannon builds if you first break their only trick, but that’s way harder to do vs one of these engineer’s, mainly cause everything ain’t comeing from one single attack, which actually is baaaad to (All damage from one attack) if your enemy have half the brian! I personal have been going with the tougher Alchemist trait’s, and I can hand down say I have no problem 1vs1 anything out there! there is flaw in the engineer class, a lot of them, but stop letting out nonsens about one the thing’s that actually work great for our class – The good old Engineer Rifle…

Now go reroll all of you whiner’s to that warrior rifle you admire so much, more free kills for me ingame, and less kitten whining on these forum’s so we maybe finally can get some constructive talk up about the class! Ain’t gonna bother posting in here, mostly in respect for OP, so he can have a somewhat nice clean thread about his still (good and funny video)

The Engineer has a spec that can solo people 1v1 and 1v2..

THe Rifle Warrior has a spec for zerg humping…You’re not going to solo anyone 1v1 with a rifle spec warrior unless they’re god awful…..I consider Rifle Warriors flat out the easiest thing to kill in the game on my Ranger.

I can’t watch the video because of copyright blahrgh but I ask myself: Why does every single engineer rifle thread have to be derailed to “omg warrior rifle is so much better than our rifle because they can do a 20 k crit with 20+ stacks of might”?

I play a warrior. I play an engineer, one with a very similar build in fact. And guess what? Their playstyle is very different, especially when going for those aimed shots and both are fine (though might stacking will surely receive a hit in the future).
What is not fine about the engineer? Most of the other non-rifle stuff. Rifle is in a good place atm. It surely isn’t head of the line but overall it isn’t bad either.

Other than that, good to see rifles actually used a little more, even if the grenade changes weren’t as much of a catastrophe as people sometimes paint it out to be.

I honestly think that you guys should take a step back, and understand the fact that we’re discussing class balance, in a wvw skirmishing video.
I think that the level 15 guardian clip should be the proof that everything pretty much works there, where all you do is to just kill some random people.
Class balance should be discussed where it matters, in sieges , in pve and in tpvp where an underpowered/overpowered class can really ruin your game.
Any discussion about how powerful or broken the class is, imho it’s pointless in this particular part of the game since there’s nothing to lose, or to win but fun.

I’m sorry that the video can’t be seen in some countries (only germany right now XD) i’ll try to fix that somehow.

Amadeus.5687:

@KirinDave you should start hunt these Rifle warrior’s seeing as they are even easier to destroy, since they got NOTHING to do when you target them… That pretty much sum up most glass cannon builds if you first break their only trick, but that’s way harder to do vs one of these engineer’s, mainly cause everything ain’t comeing from one single attack, which actually is baaaad to (All damage from one attack) if your enemy have half the brian!

The one-shot-doing-20k-from-a-group (not even a zerg) is just fine for WvW. You’re support DPS there to put spikes in the enemy and otherwise swap weapons and stay alive. That’s why the glass rifle is not good for that role; it’s requires close-up work.

In WvW, the reason I don’t chase down Rifle warriors is because they run away and they start further way. Engineers will stay close.

Amadeus.5687:

Now go reroll all of you whiner’s to that warrior rifle you admire so much, more free kills for me ingame, and less kitten whining on these forum’s so we maybe finally can get some constructive talk up about the class! Ain’t gonna bother posting in here, mostly in respect for OP, so he can have a somewhat nice clean thread about his still (good and funny video)

I rerolled Elementalist, primarily. Good luck killing a dagger+focus elementalist with a glass rifle build. It’s exceptionally difficult.

If people are comparing warrior vs engineer burst take few notes:

-warrior killshot deals more dmg dmg than entire engi combo
-instant
-ranged!
-lesser CD between bursts
-no warning, so it’s easier to get people of guard
-after using burst warrior still has access to volley/100b
-mobility from GS > engi mobility

Bargaw.4832:

If people are comparing warrior vs engineer burst take few notes:

-warrior killshot deals more dmg dmg than entire engi combo
-instant
-ranged!
-lesser CD between bursts
-no warning, so it’s easier to get people of guard
-after using burst warrior still has access to volley/100b
-mobility from GS > engi mobility

1. no it doesnt. throw wrench+discharge+suprise shot+discharge is equal. add in rocket boots+discharge or googles. engi does more, on its class combo.
2. killshot is a 3s cast, not instant.
3. both are ranged.
3. 10s CD on kill shot, however the cooldowns on war might stacking are longer. one ks might be 20k, but the next one 10s later will only be 12k tops. because he lost his might stacks.
4. how is having to charge up adrenaline, then stand still for 3s not a warning? Engi on the other hand IS mobile for that damage.
5. engineer auto attack does more dps then war auto attack and volley combined. (although volley over its 3s is more burst admittedly.)
6. rifle warrior does not want to be in melee. using a GS for anything other then to build bloodlust and adrenaline stacks vs pve, would be a death sentence. He does not have net, overcharged, or tk pull, or supply drop to CC.

Destroyer.1306:

Kyon.9735:

Destroyer.1306:

Not sure why people are concluding Warrior is a better class. If the glass cannons in these two videos ever met in combat, the Engineer wins pretty easily.

Let’s see… no special tactics/setup or whatever, GC Warrior would 1 shot GC Engineer before he is in the engineer’s range.

Oh, please. Kill Shot has the most obvious wind up in the history of video games. He literally has to kneel down and wait almost two seconds. The Engineer can skip and dance to any range he wants, all invincible like with Gear Shield, and then lay the smack down far quicker than the Warrior can. Plus, the Engineer has Supply Crate while the Warrior Elite is essentially a slightly-improved Elixir B he already used. Glass cannon rifle Warriors are truly useless creatures if anyone is paying attention to them.

And while Volley is equally easy to dodge, no one is going to dodge 7 hits that are instantaneous from the Engineer unless they are super lucky. (Analyze, Suprise Shot, Throw Wrench, SDx3, Sigil of Air.)

Funny how I clearly said that No special tactics/setup then you put them both in a situation. More importantly, you only put how an engineer could advance and counter the warrior while you didn’t even specify how a warrior could counter an engineer as well.

Please don’t be biased. Been playing engineer for 600 hours now and I clearly know how to counter/be countered. If you want to say an engineer can get close to a warrior by using Gear Shield while he loads his Kill Shot, then the warrior can definitely use Stability and Endure Pain to prevent from being CCed/out DPSed before he can launch Kill Shot.

If you’re putting those 2 in a situation, you better put how we can be countered as well. We need constructive ideas/criticism, not just some biased opinion where you don’t even give the other class a chance at all. That’s why I didn’t even mention any tactics and just put those 2 classes head on which would obviously result in the Warrior’s win simply because he has long base range and higher damage output.

Amadeus.5687:

@Kyon do you even realise that the warrior in that video have one thing you need to dodge (which is insane easy to dodge) and is worth jackkitten when he miss that shot? He is so easy to counter that my 11 year old sister could beat him! The Engineer ain’t a one trick pony, seeing as he don’t suffer even half the amount of pain that the warrior would do if his Kill Shot miss! It’s stupid to compare two weapon’s that ain’t supposed to do the same and whine over one do more direct damage compared to the engineer rifle! Casia pretty much nail the situation about how it works
(also, the warrior is doing a lot, actually every single trait, gear stat and rune is taken to make max damage output, which again leads back to my point: He would loose any decent 1va1 because he got nothing when his Kill Shot is dodged/Blocked/reflected. The same goes for the engineer, which end up doing pretty close to the same amount of damage over a bit longer period, but with more CC and tricks up his sleeve, which I would take anyday)

I can’ believe you missed the point twice. The engineer video and warrior video is about class balance. Put 5 year old kids to pilot the engineer and warrior and teach them to click 1 button and let them fight 1 on 1. It’s quite obvious who’ll win.

The point here is a warrior has to click 1 button while engineers need to put a lot of effort. Hopefully you’d understand now how an engineer needs to sacrifice/put a lot of effort to reach the level of a warrior who simply does nothing but press 1 button.

Kyon.9735:

I can’ believe you missed the point twice. The engineer video and warrior video is about class balance. Put 5 year old kids to pilot the engineer and warrior and teach them to click 1 button and let them fight 1 on 1. It’s quite obvious who’ll win.

The point here is a warrior has to click 1 button while engineers need to put a lot of effort. Hopefully you’d understand now how an engineer needs to sacrifice/put a lot of effort to reach the level of a warrior who simply does nothing but press 1 button.

Engineer dodges, MISS.

Not to mention traits will still save you. Whenever I get bursted out of nowhere, elixer S auto triggers and I have three seconds to to figure out a retaliation or escape. Even an insta kill hit still triggers it, I have actually been left with 0 hp because I got hit so hard with my health already low. Auto triggering traits have been nothing but glitchy kittens in fractals, Elixer S hardly ever triggers, I expect that has a lot to do with the engineer hate in fractals.

But the complaint “This ONE other skill makes our entire class worthless!!!” seems more like a complaint about the Warrior Kill-Shot being overpowered. Since they must be traited glass cannon to do it, and can themselves be killed by virtually anyone sneezing on their keyboard, I don’t see the complaint.

The game is heavily Paper-Rock-Scissors, there will ALWAYS be that “one class” and that “one build” that trumps any one other class/build you can come up with. But ANY build has another class/build which can decimate it. And any of these mythological “Uber-Builds” or “first rate classes” have numerous class/builds that can take them down just as easilly.

You know theives HATE engineers, right? Some guardians, too. As long as they are alone, I have never lost to a guardian. Partly because the class is so unpredictable.

NOT in sPVP, of course, the whole sPVP crowd seems to have this “one build to rule them all” mentality, but that’s exactly why they lose so much, everyone knows exactly what to expect. Seems to really only be a pugging issue, though, in tPVP it is all about team play, if you have a good team your engineer should not be being singled out for a 1v1 anyway. The mechanics of 1v1 fights should never be the determining factor in sPVP or tPVP, if it is, you’re doing it wrong.

There’s a tendency to discuss something like killshot while imagining some idiot warrior that just spams it in some predictible fashion. Remember they’re gonna have another weapon set and they can intelligently chain utilities together to make it work. I played around with a build where I would bullrush—riflebutt—killshot before they were able to get off the ground. And the killshot hit for around 9k in spvp. Not saying it makes warriors better than engineers, but it can be used to good effect.

Panzen.4625:

I can’t watch the video because of copyright blahrgh but I ask myself: Why does every single engineer rifle thread have to be derailed to “omg warrior rifle is so much better than our rifle because they can do a 20 k crit with 20+ stacks of might”?

I play a warrior. I play an engineer, one with a very similar build in fact. And guess what? Their playstyle is very different, especially when going for those aimed shots and both are fine (though might stacking will surely receive a hit in the future).
What is not fine about the engineer? Most of the other non-rifle stuff. Rifle is in a good place atm. It surely isn’t head of the line but overall it isn’t bad either.

Other than that, good to see rifles actually used a little more, even if the grenade changes weren’t as much of a catastrophe as people sometimes paint it out to be.

As soon as every class has the ability to prepare then burst damage someone to death in one shot, then we can call it balanced. Right now two classes can do that and only two. That’s an immense imbalance despite what everyone claims about how “fine” everything is.

As you can see in the video it takes about 5-6 shots to kill anyone and to keep them from doing an invisible or some other CC death prevention spam (you know the kind engis don’t have) we have to use jump shot to keep them from rezzing. PVE is much much more difficult because the mobs have resistances to burst damage so I spend most of my time firing twice as many shots then any other class. There’s also the whole crit percentage nerf we suffer as engineers, nowhere near what other classes enjoy so our special when crit happens blah happens traits don’t always happen. And then there’s the traits being in the wrong line for rifles, we should get power instead of % damage of conditions for rifles. And the traits being weak like 10% damage when endurance is full, or 5% when end is not full, shouldn’t that be the other way around? My thief and ranger don’t have weak traits like that I’d expect this one would have better especially with the nerfs every patch.

It’s kind of an insult really.

Slan.5496:

There’s a tendency to discuss something like killshot while imagining some idiot warrior that just spams it in some predictible fashion. Remember they’re gonna have another weapon set and they can intelligently chain utilities together to make it work. I played around with a build where I would bullrush—riflebutt—killshot before they were able to get off the ground. And the killshot hit for around 9k in spvp. Not saying it makes warriors better than engineers, but it can be used to good effect.

On the same note, with a riffle/net build I can keep him almost perma-imobile and dodge the obvious killshot charge. Doesn’t make engi better than the warrior, doesn’t make me a better player, it make my build vs his build in that instance better. The same set up tends to fail against a good ranger, as his pet harasses me.

Bombs/grenades work miracles against thieves and guardians, but not so well against elementalists. FT/EG works against a minion necro, but not against a well necro. This is where engineers can shine, we can completely change tactics on the fly in ways none of the others can. Even the elementalist’s versatility is a stacked deck, they can’t really change up their game much. If they could choose one weapon for each attunement, maybe, but being stuck with what they get means each weapon set, build has specific things it can and can’t do.

Engineers can build much more flexibility, making the BUILD more important than the class or the skill level. No other class relies so heavily on their skills. For all the other classes the skills are three buttons with three specific uses. For us it’s six buttons with almost limitless combinations of uses.

If the class is a jack of all trades, then so must be the player. I’m a total jack of all trades in life, too. I love being able to change the rules of engagement on the fly, the mere factor of reaction alone is worth it. “He’s just spamming grenades, Get close! Now I can’t move, Condition removal! He did it again? Condition removal! He did it AGAIN?! AOE, how can he drop my conditions so quickly? Heavy attack! Where did he get a shield?”

And that would be a rare long fight, most don’t even live that long.

This is not some matter of “my skillz are better than urz” it’s simply that the class fits me. Some people multitask, some people need to spam. For a multitasker like me, I SUCK at the spam classes. These so-called “teir one classes” are so restricted I can barely do anything competitive with them. Engineer may be “GW2 Hard Modez” for some, but warrior, ranger and Thief are Hard Mode for me. At least competitively.
PVE most every class is just fun to play. I facerolled so many times on my mesmer I deleted him, but otherwise.

No matter the class you play there will always be specific classes and builds you have trouble with. If the number of classes you have trouble with is too high, try a different class for competition. If you find a “Better” class, it may well be the class you were playing just wasn’t for you.

Meanwhile I will continue to play competitively with my engi, because I can barely keep a 2:1 kdr with any other class.

Kyon.9735:

Destroyer.1306:

Kyon.9735:

Destroyer.1306:

Not sure why people are concluding Warrior is a better class. If the glass cannons in these two videos ever met in combat, the Engineer wins pretty easily.

Let’s see… no special tactics/setup or whatever, GC Warrior would 1 shot GC Engineer before he is in the engineer’s range.

Oh, please. Kill Shot has the most obvious wind up in the history of video games. He literally has to kneel down and wait almost two seconds. The Engineer can skip and dance to any range he wants, all invincible like with Gear Shield, and then lay the smack down far quicker than the Warrior can. Plus, the Engineer has Supply Crate while the Warrior Elite is essentially a slightly-improved Elixir B he already used. Glass cannon rifle Warriors are truly useless creatures if anyone is paying attention to them.

And while Volley is equally easy to dodge, no one is going to dodge 7 hits that are instantaneous from the Engineer unless they are super lucky. (Analyze, Suprise Shot, Throw Wrench, SDx3, Sigil of Air.)

Funny how I clearly said that No special tactics/setup then you put them both in a situation. More importantly, you only put how an engineer could advance and counter the warrior while you didn’t even specify how a warrior could counter an engineer as well.

Please don’t be biased. Been playing engineer for 600 hours now and I clearly know how to counter/be countered. If you want to say an engineer can get close to a warrior by using Gear Shield while he loads his Kill Shot, then the warrior can definitely use Stability and Endure Pain to prevent from being CCed/out DPSed before he can launch Kill Shot.

If you’re putting those 2 in a situation, you better put how we can be countered as well. We need constructive ideas/criticism, not just some biased opinion where you don’t even give the other class a chance at all. That’s why I didn’t even mention any tactics and just put those 2 classes head on which would obviously result in the Warrior’s win simply because he has long base range and higher damage output.

Dude. What?

What are you even talking about?

I said if the two glass cannons in the two videos met, the Engineer would destroy the Warrior. Which he would.

Balanced Stance? Endure Pain? Do you see those skills on that Warrior’s utility bar?

Let me be as clear as I can. The glass cannon Engineer in this video would destroy the glass cannon Warrior in that video because he has more utility and his abilities are more difficult to avoid.

Now I’m going to go see if my new sweater fits and never think about this horrible discussion again.

Monkey Fritz.9052:

Kyon.9735:

I can’ believe you missed the point twice. The engineer video and warrior video is about class balance. Put 5 year old kids to pilot the engineer and warrior and teach them to click 1 button and let them fight 1 on 1. It’s quite obvious who’ll win.

The point here is a warrior has to click 1 button while engineers need to put a lot of effort. Hopefully you’d understand now how an engineer needs to sacrifice/put a lot of effort to reach the level of a warrior who simply does nothing but press 1 button.

Engineer dodges, MISS.

Not to mention traits will still save you. Whenever I get bursted out of nowhere, elixer S auto triggers and I have three seconds to to figure out a retaliation or escape. Even an insta kill hit still triggers it, I have actually been left with 0 hp because I got hit so hard with my health already low. Auto triggering traits have been nothing but glitchy kittens in fractals, Elixer S hardly ever triggers, I expect that has a lot to do with the engineer hate in fractals.

But the complaint “This ONE other skill makes our entire class worthless!!!” seems more like a complaint about the Warrior Kill-Shot being overpowered. Since they must be traited glass cannon to do it, and can themselves be killed by virtually anyone sneezing on their keyboard, I don’t see the complaint.

The game is heavily Paper-Rock-Scissors, there will ALWAYS be that “one class” and that “one build” that trumps any one other class/build you can come up with. But ANY build has another class/build which can decimate it. And any of these mythological “Uber-Builds” or “first rate classes” have numerous class/builds that can take them down just as easilly.

You know theives HATE engineers, right? Some guardians, too. As long as they are alone, I have never lost to a guardian. Partly because the class is so unpredictable.

NOT in sPVP, of course, the whole sPVP crowd seems to have this “one build to rule them all” mentality, but that’s exactly why they lose so much, everyone knows exactly what to expect. Seems to really only be a pugging issue, though, in tPVP it is all about team play, if you have a good team your engineer should not be being singled out for a 1v1 anyway. The mechanics of 1v1 fights should never be the determining factor in sPVP or tPVP, if it is, you’re doing it wrong.

And another guy misses the point. Whenever you compare 2 classes, you should never take the skills of the pilot in account. That’s the golden rule. You can’t just say he can dodge or use whatever skill simply because not everyone thinks alike. Class balancing is about how players of the same skill set is able to utilize the character. When 1 skilled player loses to a noob player simply because the noob player is using a very OP character, it’s obvious that we need some balancing.

Now, when a warrior who’s supposed to be good at melee uses a rifle and beats an engineer who’s supposed to be good at long/mid range fight, isn’t it obvious that we need some balancing?

The point here is that Engineers should be buffed OR warriors should be nerfed in terms of ranged skills. We can’t have another profession outclass us in something that we should thrive.

Destroyer.1306:

Kyon.9735:

Destroyer.1306:

Kyon.9735:

Destroyer.1306:

Not sure why people are concluding Warrior is a better class. If the glass cannons in these two videos ever met in combat, the Engineer wins pretty easily.

Let’s see… no special tactics/setup or whatever, GC Warrior would 1 shot GC Engineer before he is in the engineer’s range.

Oh, please. Kill Shot has the most obvious wind up in the history of video games. He literally has to kneel down and wait almost two seconds. The Engineer can skip and dance to any range he wants, all invincible like with Gear Shield, and then lay the smack down far quicker than the Warrior can. Plus, the Engineer has Supply Crate while the Warrior Elite is essentially a slightly-improved Elixir B he already used. Glass cannon rifle Warriors are truly useless creatures if anyone is paying attention to them.

And while Volley is equally easy to dodge, no one is going to dodge 7 hits that are instantaneous from the Engineer unless they are super lucky. (Analyze, Suprise Shot, Throw Wrench, SDx3, Sigil of Air.)

Funny how I clearly said that No special tactics/setup then you put them both in a situation. More importantly, you only put how an engineer could advance and counter the warrior while you didn’t even specify how a warrior could counter an engineer as well.

Please don’t be biased. Been playing engineer for 600 hours now and I clearly know how to counter/be countered. If you want to say an engineer can get close to a warrior by using Gear Shield while he loads his Kill Shot, then the warrior can definitely use Stability and Endure Pain to prevent from being CCed/out DPSed before he can launch Kill Shot.

If you’re putting those 2 in a situation, you better put how we can be countered as well. We need constructive ideas/criticism, not just some biased opinion where you don’t even give the other class a chance at all. That’s why I didn’t even mention any tactics and just put those 2 classes head on which would obviously result in the Warrior’s win simply because he has long base range and higher damage output.

Dude. What?

What are you even talking about?

I said if the two glass cannons in the two videos met, the Engineer would destroy the Warrior. Which he would.

Balanced Stance? Endure Pain? Do you see those skills on that Warrior’s utility bar?

Let me be as clear as I can. The glass cannon Engineer in this video would destroy the glass cannon Warrior in that video because he has more utility and his abilities are more difficult to avoid.

Now I’m going to go see if my new sweater fits and never think about this horrible discussion again.

Now that’s something I missed. If these 2 persons meet in game, I’d also vote hands down for the engineer simply because he’s much more skilled and knows how to utilize his skills.

On the other hand, what I was trying to point out was that when 2 players of the same skill level meet using this GC build, I doubt that the engineer can beat the warrior simply because a warrior is much more OP than an engineer, I doubt anybody disagrees. Sorry for the confusion there.

Kyon.9735:

Now that’s something I missed. If these 2 persons meet in game, I’d also vote hands down for the engineer simply because he’s much more skilled and knows how to utilize his skills.

On the other hand, what I was trying to point out was that when 2 players of the same skill level meet using this GC build, I doubt that the engineer can beat the warrior simply because a warrior is much more OP than an engineer, I doubt anybody disagrees. Sorry for the confusion there.

You know what? I was flippant, and you remained reasonable and cool in your reply. 10 points for Gryffindor.

Yeah, I agree that given two equally skilled players designing characters fresh, you would generally expect the Warrior to beat the Engineer. That’s a good argument to convince people that the Engineer class could use a buff.

Kyon.9735:

And another guy misses the point. Whenever you compare 2 classes, you should never take the skills of the pilot in account. That’s the golden rule. You can’t just say he can dodge or use whatever skill simply because not everyone thinks alike. Class balancing is about how players of the same skill set is able to utilize the character. When 1 skilled player loses to a noob player simply because the noob player is using a very OP character, it’s obvious that we need some balancing.

Now, when a warrior who’s supposed to be good at melee uses a rifle and beats an engineer who’s supposed to be good at long/mid range fight, isn’t it obvious that we need some balancing?

The point here is that Engineers should be buffed OR warriors should be nerfed in terms of ranged skills. We can’t have another profession outclass us in something that we should thrive.

Wow, you’re so far in left field I don’t know if I can even reach you.

First, I was pointing out that no matter what you do there is always a counter for everything in this game. Just because you don’t use that counter doesn’t make one class weaker than the other. There will always be a skill or combo that your build isn’t set to counter.

Second, I have never seen a skilled player lose to a noob. I’ve seen noobs lose to other noobs and claim it’s because of class imbalance. I’ve seen skilled players lose to people using a skill combo they hadn’t previously encountered before. But skilled players learn from their mistakes and don’t typically fall for the same thing twice.

Third, Skilled players don’t lose to burst! Glass-cannon-ultra-burst-mode is the ultimate noob trick. The second you realize your class has ways to counter bursting, the dodge button first and foremost, bursting becomes that “laughable thing those noobs do.” Of course, you implied not everyone dodges because not everyone thinks alike. Okayyy. Beginning to see what many peoples problem is on this forum.