Guild Wars 2

Hello, I’m the person that made the metabattle power grenadier DPS rotation and wrote a large part of that page. (http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Power_Grenadier)

I’ve done some quick napkin math to calculate the damage coefficients of the hammer skills from the twitch stream. (Using the Jebro part)

Numbers are here: http://metabattle.com/wiki/User:Ocirne

Assuming my calculations are correct, then the following will apply:

In general, the hammer skills 2 Electro Whirl and 5 Thunderclap are superior DPS to rifle’s Blunderbuss and Jump Shot. Hammer 3 is also likely slightly better DPS than using the grenade auto attack so this skill could replace the grenade auto attack in the rotation in a few places.

What you guys probably want to know, is if the hammer auto attack is any good compared to the grenade auto attack. The answer is, definitely not. The hammer auto attack is approximately 20% less DPS than the grenade auto attack.

In dungeon scenarios the extra might on the auto attack is not particulary useful, the vulnerability on both weapons is relatively compareable, with grenades doing more short duration vuln and hammer less but longer duration.

As far as i can tell, hammer will be a very comparable option for dungeon Engineers, how much stronger it is compared to rifle I still need to calculate, but it should be fairly close.

Trait wise, the Scrapper traitline would replace the Tools traitline, trading a 10% damage modifier when endurance is full, for a 10% toughness -> power for 100 power and 10% hammer damage trait. The DPS between the 2 lines should be really close trait bonus wise.

As far as the Utilities are concerned, I’ll just pretend that they never existed.

Okay in all honesty, what is your point? This spec is not about dps obviously.
And metabattle is part of the big problem that is ruining gw2, new players are mislead into it being the only way to play making the playerbase very homogene. I am sorry but I have zero respect for metabattle.

The V.8759:

Okay in all honesty, what is your point? This spec is not about dps obviously.
And metabattle is part of the big problem that is ruining gw2, new players are mislead into it being the only way to play making the playerbase very homogene. I am sorry but I have zero respect for metabattle.

To show how useful the spec is for people that like to min/max dungeons?

ocirne.7915:

The hammer auto attack is approximately 20% less DPS than the grenade auto attack.

thats something that will need to change. its a chain, were supposed to want to take it to completion and get something for it… if it doesnt even do what nades does then there is basically no incentive to use it ever, much less use it over bombs which is even better than nades for dps and has the same cost of being melee. vuln and short self might to only 3 targets is not enough.

idk if you do any of the condi build stuff but have you taken a look at shredder in an eth or fire field? or hammer 2? whirling most likely cant compare to blowtorch – you do 3 over the same time period and get 30 secs total(? whirling = 5 projectiles right?) of burn compared to blowtorches 45 secs for 1 cast.. but whirling in eth is a bit stronger than fire when considering enemy actions. i feel like on paper shredder in eth could be better burst, but it wont survive long enough to fully replace grenades… and it definitely wouldnt compare to ft or bombs.

The V.8759:

Okay in all honesty, what is your point? This spec is not about dps obviously.
And metabattle is part of the big problem that is ruining gw2, new players are mislead into it being the only way to play making the playerbase very homogene. I am sorry but I have zero respect for metabattle.

what exactly is your point? i hate metabattle too but there certainly is a place for discussing dps on forums.

The V.8759:

Okay in all honesty, what is your point? This spec is not about dps obviously.
And metabattle is part of the big problem that is ruining gw2, new players are mislead into it being the only way to play making the playerbase very homogene. I am sorry but I have zero respect for metabattle.

Oh sure, lets blame meta battle and not the people playing that insist on BEST DPS.

kittensake dude.

Thanks for the info.
I do not know the purpose/role of the Hammer so I do not really know where in the DPS ranking of Engie weapons it should be placed.
I am curious, how accurate can we know DPS for specs? Is it calculations, or do you test things with timers and combat logs?

portedGoblin.7413:

Thanks for the info.
I do not know the purpose/role of the Hammer so I do not really know where in the DPS ranking of Engie weapons it should be placed.
I am curious, how accurate can we know DPS for specs? Is it calculations, or do you test things with timers and combat logs?

It’s pretty much only calculations and measuring time of skills. Though nobody really wants to put in that much effort to measure all the things and figure out the optimal ordering considering the specs change so much. For most elite specs its pretty obvious if it will be useful for current PvE based on the trait damage bonuses.

Is this based of the PoI stats because we know that the PoI was not using a proper stat set up for Scrapper.

I think he used a stat set up for condition damage instead of power and toughness.

EdwinLi.1284:

Is this based of the PoI stats because we know that the PoI was not using a proper stat set up for Scrapper.

I think he used a stat set up for condition damage instead of power and toughness.

This is based on Jebro’s build where he showed the amount of power and the tooltip damage, which can be used to calculate the damage coefficient.

Its always funny to me how some ppl assume that ability to post build on metabattle/youtube/whatever makes their build automaticly the best and mark them as authors of that build/rotation.

Hammer will replace rifle in rotation for sure but specualting about exact numbers is pointles because we dont know them and they can even further change. About rotation I definetly there see place to replace one kit by something else becase of fairly low cds on hammer.

But where I can see hammer even more usefull are actualy condi builds. Just imagine full condi duration + fire fields + all those whirls and leaps from hammer and shredder gyro. It will make fire stacks just insane.

Rozbuska.5263:

Its always funny to me how some ppl assume that ability to post build on metabattle/youtube/whatever makes their build automaticly the best and mark them as authors of that build/rotation.

Hammer will replace rifle in rotation for sure but specualting about exact numbers is pointles because we dont know them and they can even further change. About rotation I definetly there see place to replace one kit by something else becase of fairly low cds on hammer.

But where I can see hammer even more usefull are actualy condi builds. Just imagine full condi duration + fire fields + all those whirls and leaps from hammer and shredder gyro. It will make fire stacks just insane.

Eh, I’m not claiming to be the author of that build, just added that information to add credibility. Hammer just has 2 whirl finishers (on skill 2), for a few burning bolts. Leap finishers just give fire aura which does nothing if the enemy isn’t hitting you a lot. p/p will probably still be the best option for pve condi.

Rozbuska.5263:

But where I can see hammer even more usefull are actualy condi builds. Just imagine full condi duration + fire fields + all those whirls and leaps from hammer and shredder gyro. It will make fire stacks just insane.

condi builds will most likely go p/p bomb/ft/shredder or bomb/ft/nade. if they take shredder, they are forcing themselves into a spec w/ 0 condi damage and mediocre swiftness (at best) at the cost of guaranteed permaswiftness and power damage and/or procs. shredders burst has to be worth the trade of grenades and all those long bleeds. i kinda doubt hammer will be worth giving up blowtorch, but hammer at least does offer significant condis despite having essentially 0 attached to its skills.

keep in mind whirl burns are base 1 sec. whirl confusion is base 5 secs. poison base 2 secs. the others do nothing, and eth fields (prolly the best option) are rareish (but chronomancers will be a thing).

insanemaniac.2456:

The V.8759:

Okay in all honesty, what is your point? This spec is not about dps obviously.
And metabattle is part of the big problem that is ruining gw2, new players are mislead into it being the only way to play making the playerbase very homogene. I am sorry but I have zero respect for metabattle.

what exactly is your point? i hate metabattle too but there certainly is a place for discussing dps on forums.

First of all, the second thing I said was on a side note.
Next to that, I have the idea people are just judging scrapper based on dps (when it comes to hammer). Its role is to bring utility with reasonable dps. It has good finishers, stun, block, might, evade and reflect. Therefore I am wondering why this thread matters. I think its dps is good for the utility the weapon offers. Dont compate it to the nades. We dont compare the dps of Dragonhunter to scepter too do we? That would be weird

ocirne.7915:

As far as the Utilities are concerned, I’ll just pretend that they never existed.

This perfectly sums up the scrapper flaws …
I also miss at least an +5% damage modifier somewhere in the traitline, aswell as some gameplay changing traits, like kinetic battery or steamlined kits :/

While zerking is the so called Meta would it really matter much in HoT contents.

Anet has been going for the Anti-Zerker mobs in HoT with a lot of mobs able to one or two shot Zerker build players in HoT beta. Not to mention that is only part of what to expect in the full HoT contents.

They also mentioned something about adjusting Fractal in HoT so can’t really jump to conclusions yet.

Issue with the metabattle/full dps builds is the new players jump in game get carried to lv 50 fractals infuse follow the full dps guide with having zero knowledge of what to watch other than rotation CDs and boss tells…. and they wipe with boss at 90% health…. cuz battle went on longer than 30 seconds or 1 person downed though i use the meta battle myself, you still need to be adaptive to the team composition and watch team health to time necessary blinds and blocks.

On the build side havent looked much into the teaits but utilities concerned i quite like the whirl finisher gyro for cleanse / healing bolts as well as fire/poison for condis stacks

I don’t think the Scrapper tree was intended to challenge Explosives for DPS builds.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I don’t think the Scrapper tree was intended to challenge Explosives for DPS builds.

It is not meant to rival Explosives for DPS since Scrapper Tree is a Defensive Tree.

You’ll actually get more DPS out of it if you pair Scrapper tree with Explosive tree due to Scrapper’s auto applying Valunerability and use the Mortar Kit to give Scrapper their combo field when they go Hammer crazy.

However, this is only one way to pair the Scrapper Tree such as pairing it with Firearm tree for increase in Crit chance.

You’ll want to have Alchemy or Invention as the 3rd tree for the condition clense so it is a balance the 1 Offensive tree, Scrapper tree, and 1 Condition clense tree.

EdwinLi.1284:

Phineas Poe.3018:

I don’t think the Scrapper tree was intended to challenge Explosives for DPS builds.

It is not meant to rival Explosives for DPS since Scrapper Tree is a Defensive Tree.

You’ll actually get more DPS out of it if you pair Scrapper tree with Explosive tree due to Scrapper’s auto applying Valunerability and use the Mortar Kit to give Scrapper their combo field when they go Hammer crazy.

However, this is only one way to pair the Scrapper Tree such as pairing it with Firearm tree for increase in Crit chance.

You’ll want to have Alchemy or Invention as the 3rd tree for the condition clense so it is a balance the 1 Offensive tree, Scrapper tree, and 1 Condition clense tree.

Right.

I’m just not sure what the purpose of this thread is. Obviously a hammer with three leap finishers, a block, and a reflect will do less damage than grenades.

insanemaniac.2456:

Rozbuska.5263:

But where I can see hammer even more usefull are actualy condi builds. Just imagine full condi duration + fire fields + all those whirls and leaps from hammer and shredder gyro. It will make fire stacks just insane.

condi builds will most likely go p/p bomb/ft/shredder or bomb/ft/nade. if they take shredder, they are forcing themselves into a spec w/ 0 condi damage and mediocre swiftness (at best) at the cost of guaranteed permaswiftness and power damage and/or procs. shredders burst has to be worth the trade of grenades and all those long bleeds. i kinda doubt hammer will be worth giving up blowtorch, but hammer at least does offer significant condis despite having essentially 0 attached to its skills.

keep in mind whirl burns are base 1 sec. whirl confusion is base 5 secs. poison base 2 secs. the others do nothing, and eth fields (prolly the best option) are rareish (but chronomancers will be a thing).

Yea it will need some further testing for sure. If I remember right fire projectile have 2s burning with 100% duration shredder is up 12s and throw one every half sec that 24 2s burnings… Nah probably not worth it but still cool concept.

the point of this thread is to evaluate hammer as a rifle (or p/p maybe) replacement. holy kitten.

a nades comparison is apt because nades auto has become engis baseline filler skill. and if hammer auto cant even at least match nades in utility or dps there is no purpose to using it essentially ever, and especially for the 2 or 3 secs or whatever it takes to complete the chain. imo it should be stronger in some way because its melee and nades are ranged. the same way bombs are higher power damage but less procs/vuln, and the higher power dps comes with being melee and taking the risk of being in melee with whatever youre fighting. maybe hammer should bring more vuln. maybe more dps. maybe more procs. maybe something else that we cant already do well, like fury or quickness. but its just another flame jet atm, and its not even as good as flame jet because it also will suck at tagging with only 3 targets and less hits/sec.

Rozbuska.5263:

insanemaniac.2456:

Rozbuska.5263:

But where I can see hammer even more usefull are actualy condi builds. Just imagine full condi duration + fire fields + all those whirls and leaps from hammer and shredder gyro. It will make fire stacks just insane.

condi builds will most likely go p/p bomb/ft/shredder or bomb/ft/nade. if they take shredder, they are forcing themselves into a spec w/ 0 condi damage and mediocre swiftness (at best) at the cost of guaranteed permaswiftness and power damage and/or procs. shredders burst has to be worth the trade of grenades and all those long bleeds. i kinda doubt hammer will be worth giving up blowtorch, but hammer at least does offer significant condis despite having essentially 0 attached to its skills.

keep in mind whirl burns are base 1 sec. whirl confusion is base 5 secs. poison base 2 secs. the others do nothing, and eth fields (prolly the best option) are rareish (but chronomancers will be a thing).

Yea it will need some further testing for sure. If I remember right fire projectile have 2s burning with 100% duration shredder is up 12s and throw one every half sec that 24 2s burnings… Nah probably not worth it but still cool concept.

thats 24×5 2s burns, whirling sends out like 5 projectiles right? on an immobile boss thats crazy.

How could they possibly know?.

364 is listed as the base damage for the chain. We know neither the power multiplier nor what the dev was wearing on stream.

The number is a concern, but its a storm in a teapot until we know more.

It would be nice to have a 10% dmg modifier under the effect of stability. That would suit the scrapper the most imo.

I am certainly interested to know how the Hammer will fit into the meta build for Engineers in HoT. Hoping for a better damage coefficient overall but now we know that Hammer’s 3 and 5 already does more damage than rifle’s rotations so looks like Hammer is in.

So the point of this thread is to brainstorm ideas. Maybe hammer’s AA will be better dps than grenades after BWE. Unless you play Engineer with just one weapon/kit with no regard for dps rotations, there’s no point in saying grenades do better dps than hammer.

insanemaniac.2456:

the point of this thread is to evaluate hammer as a rifle (or p/p maybe) replacement. holy kitten.

As far as DPS is concerned, it’s not, and never should be.

/thread

ocirne.7915:

What you guys probably want to know, is if the hammer auto attack is any good compared to the grenade auto attack. The answer is, definitely not. The hammer auto attack is approximately 20% less DPS than the grenade auto attack

Thanks for the insight ocirne.
This is pretty sad considering grenades auto already does poor damage. You’d think a melee based weapon would you more damage than a ranged based one.

Lite.3819:

Thanks for the insight ocirne.
This is pretty sad considering grenades auto already does poor damage. You’d think a melee based weapon would you more damage than a ranged based one.

You should not take opinions of others seriously enough to judge a weapon “useless” until you tried it yourself.

Not to mention Builds around Scrapper has yet to be made and everything currently is all speculations created by numbers for the “Assumed” outcome so they are not the “Real” outcome.

A lot of things need to be tested first and Specialization trees need to be combined and tested on the field to find which would give which outcome.

Until physically tested we can’t assume anything said is what it actually is.

Lite.3819:

This is pretty sad considering grenades auto already does poor damage. You’d think a melee based weapon would you more damage than a ranged based one.

Poor personal damage, but the vulnerability stacking obviously makes up for it.

Either way, this game is not really balanced around melee vs. ranged DPS in that sense, even if it should be. An elementalist does way more damage with the staff than double daggers do.

And the Scrapper is a defensive tree akin to Alchemy or Inventions, and the hammer obviously isn’t designed to compete with traditional DPS options.

These specializations were designed to fill holes in professions, not change up the strengths they already have. I don’t see the hammer replacing p/p, rifle, or the grenade kit since the Scrapper isn’t meant to replace a damage tree or utility but bolster our defenses.

Phineas Poe.3018:

insanemaniac.2456:

the point of this thread is to evaluate hammer as a rifle (or p/p maybe) replacement. holy kitten.

As far as DPS is concerned, it’s not, and never should be.

/thread

except whirls do crazy things.
and rifle is a utility and burst weapon, so its relatively easy to surpass in terms of dps.

It is just good insight, the hammer is, after all, a cc weapon. I was almost afraid of hambow nerfs.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Lite.3819:

This is pretty sad considering grenades auto already does poor damage. You’d think a melee based weapon would you more damage than a ranged based one.

Poor personal damage, but the vulnerability stacking obviously makes up for it.

Either way, this game is not really balanced around melee vs. ranged DPS in that sense, even if it should be. An elementalist does way more damage with the staff than double daggers do.

And the Scrapper is a defensive tree akin to Alchemy or Inventions, and the hammer obviously isn’t designed to compete with traditional DPS options.

These specializations were designed to fill holes in professions, not change up the strengths they already have. I don’t see the hammer replacing p/p, rifle, or the grenade kit since the Scrapper isn’t meant to replace a damage tree or utility but bolster our defenses.

Hammer does obsolete P/S though. Poor P/S

Thanks Ocirne for the information. I am looking forward to your HoT build!

Indeed Scrapper trait line is definitely not designed for PvE and certainly cannot compare to Explosion line; but I think it is very likely to replace Tools line for both Hammer and the elite Gyro. Invisibility provided by the elite Gyro, toolbelt skill of Elixir S and combo with Smoke Bomb will probably give engi an equal ability of group invisibility as Thief’s.

insanemaniac.2456:

thats 24×5 2s burns, whirling sends out like 5 projectiles right? on an immobile boss thats crazy.

Yea turn off melee assist and do it inside boss:-) And imagine something 3x engi and 2x revenant with that (not sure what exactly it is) condi multiplaying skill.

Rozbuska.5263:

insanemaniac.2456:

thats 24×5 2s burns, whirling sends out like 5 projectiles right? on an immobile boss thats crazy.

Yea turn off melee assist and do it inside boss:-)

i wanna know what time warp does to it. shredder can receive quickness and eth should be better than fire when you include enemy actions and @ 65% duration vs burn’s 98%.

insanemaniac.2456:

Rozbuska.5263:

insanemaniac.2456:

thats 24×5 2s burns, whirling sends out like 5 projectiles right? on an immobile boss thats crazy.

Yea turn off melee assist and do it inside boss:-)

i wanna know what time warp does to it. shredder can receive quickness and eth should be better than fire when you include enemy actions and @ 65% duration vs burn’s 98%.

Quickness wont give that much of an adventage as it will only deal the same damage but quicker I guess. Unless they made it like that, that it will stay 12s no matter what

ocirne.7915:

Hello, I’m the person that made the metabattle power grenadier DPS rotation and wrote a large part of that page. (http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Power_Grenadier)

I’ve done some quick napkin math to calculate the damage coefficients of the hammer skills from the twitch stream. (Using the Jebro part)

Numbers are here: http://metabattle.com/wiki/User:Ocirne

Assuming my calculations are correct, then the following will apply:

In general, the hammer skills 2 Electro Whirl and 5 Thunderclap are superior DPS to rifle’s Blunderbuss and Jump Shot. Hammer 3 is also likely slightly better DPS than using the grenade auto attack so this skill could replace the grenade auto attack in the rotation in a few places.

What you guys probably want to know, is if the hammer auto attack is any good compared to the grenade auto attack. The answer is, definitely not. The hammer auto attack is approximately 20% less DPS than the grenade auto attack.

In dungeon scenarios the extra might on the auto attack is not particulary useful, the vulnerability on both weapons is relatively compareable, with grenades doing more short duration vuln and hammer less but longer duration.

As far as i can tell, hammer will be a very comparable option for dungeon Engineers, how much stronger it is compared to rifle I still need to calculate, but it should be fairly close.

Trait wise, the Scrapper traitline would replace the Tools traitline, trading a 10% damage modifier when endurance is full, for a 10% toughness -> power for 100 power and 10% hammer damage trait. The DPS between the 2 lines should be really close trait bonus wise.

As far as the Utilities are concerned, I’ll just pretend that they never existed.

Can’t ignore the time element. Higher coefficients != higher DPS, just higher damage.

Either way though I’d wager Hammer would fit perfectly well in a power build, not just with solid damage but also defense, I want it, give it to me.

However, kitten the traitline. Honestly I don’t want it at all. Don’t forget dropping Tools also means a longer recharge on Grenade Barrage (and all toolbelt skills) which isn’t completely negligible. But then you also get the 50% increase to endurance regen, again something that is a solid QoL addition. Streamlined Kits is solid both for the activated and swiftness. Basically while Tools isn’t our key traitline it still had a lot of solid things within it that make me love it.

All that said, I am curious to see the shredder gyro in a condi build as people are talking about. May be a good “no nade” build option. Though I know it’s not just me fearing the impending doom of a burning nerf that will hamstring condi builds because they refuse to split PVP skills.

All I can really say at this point is I want the hammer, but not the traitline.

Jerus.4350:

ocirne.7915:

Hello, I’m the person that made the metabattle power grenadier DPS rotation and wrote a large part of that page. (http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Power_Grenadier)

I’ve done some quick napkin math to calculate the damage coefficients of the hammer skills from the twitch stream. (Using the Jebro part)

Numbers are here: http://metabattle.com/wiki/User:Ocirne

Assuming my calculations are correct, then the following will apply:

In general, the hammer skills 2 Electro Whirl and 5 Thunderclap are superior DPS to rifle’s Blunderbuss and Jump Shot. Hammer 3 is also likely slightly better DPS than using the grenade auto attack so this skill could replace the grenade auto attack in the rotation in a few places.

What you guys probably want to know, is if the hammer auto attack is any good compared to the grenade auto attack. The answer is, definitely not. The hammer auto attack is approximately 20% less DPS than the grenade auto attack.

In dungeon scenarios the extra might on the auto attack is not particulary useful, the vulnerability on both weapons is relatively compareable, with grenades doing more short duration vuln and hammer less but longer duration.

As far as i can tell, hammer will be a very comparable option for dungeon Engineers, how much stronger it is compared to rifle I still need to calculate, but it should be fairly close.

Trait wise, the Scrapper traitline would replace the Tools traitline, trading a 10% damage modifier when endurance is full, for a 10% toughness -> power for 100 power and 10% hammer damage trait. The DPS between the 2 lines should be really close trait bonus wise.

As far as the Utilities are concerned, I’ll just pretend that they never existed.

Can’t ignore the time element. Higher coefficients != higher DPS, just higher damage.

Either way though I’d wager Hammer would fit perfectly well in a power build, not just with solid damage but also defense, I want it, give it to me.

However, kitten the traitline. Honestly I don’t want it at all. Don’t forget dropping Tools also means a longer recharge on Grenade Barrage (and all toolbelt skills) which isn’t completely negligible. But then you also get the 50% increase to endurance regen, again something that is a solid QoL addition. Streamlined Kits is solid both for the activated and swiftness. Basically while Tools isn’t our key traitline it still had a lot of solid things within it that make me love it.

All that said, I am curious to see the shredder gyro in a condi build as people are talking about. May be a good “no nade” build option. Though I know it’s not just me fearing the impending doom of a burning nerf that will hamstring condi builds because they refuse to split PVP skills.

All I can really say at this point is I want the hammer, but not the traitline.

I am with you. The Hammer is great, Gyros are okay, the trait line is meh.

Really? I love that traitline almost as much as I love the Hammer.

I also love the Gyro toolbelt skills. Only thing I am iffy on are the Gyros themselves.

@ Ocirne: Thank you for your contribution here. Sad to see so many people who are taking their frustration of the meta out on you.

I’m glad to see that the scrapper will be worth using in a DPS-focused build. Too bad the auto attack doesn’t fit in, but that’s probably to be expected considering how good the non-AA skills are.

I almost wish we didn’t have vuln and might on the weapon though. I have a feeling there will be plenty of this in a group setting to be capped even without this, making those a bit of a waste.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Really? I love that traitline almost as much as I love the Hammer.

I also love the Gyro toolbelt skills. Only thing I am iffy on are the Gyros themselves.

Curious what about it in reference to dungeons/fractals? Seems like a lot of more passive stuff and things that will be possibly nice but used once in a blue moon.

Dahkeus.8243:

@ Ocirne: Thank you for your contribution here. Sad to see so many people who are taking their frustration of the meta out on you.

I’m glad to see that the scrapper will be worth using in a DPS-focused build. Too bad the auto attack doesn’t fit in, but that’s probably to be expected considering how good the non-AA skills are.

I almost wish we didn’t have vuln and might on the weapon though. I have a feeling there will be plenty of this in a group setting to be capped even without this, making those a bit of a waste.

Thanks,

I would have personally loved to see a blast finisher on the auto 3rd hit and a bit more damage.

Jerus.4350:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Really? I love that traitline almost as much as I love the Hammer.

I also love the Gyro toolbelt skills. Only thing I am iffy on are the Gyros themselves.

Curious what about it in reference to dungeons/fractals? Seems like a lot of more passive stuff and things that will be possibly nice but used once in a blue moon.

All of the lines are great for PvP and pretty good for WvW.

The Adept and Minor lines need work to make them better in Dungeons/Fractals, but I think we all realize this.

That half of the line need work does not change the fact that this is probably our most synergistic traitline. A LOT more thought seems to have gone into it than—for example—the Revenant’s traitlines when we first got to play with it.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Jerus.4350:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Really? I love that traitline almost as much as I love the Hammer.

I also love the Gyro toolbelt skills. Only thing I am iffy on are the Gyros themselves.

Curious what about it in reference to dungeons/fractals? Seems like a lot of more passive stuff and things that will be possibly nice but used once in a blue moon.

All of the lines are great for PvP and pretty good for WvW.

The Adept and Minor lines need work to make them better in Dungeons/Fractals, but I think we all realize this.

That half of the line need work does not change the fact that this is probably our most synergistic traitline. A LOT more thought seems to have gone into it than—for example—the Revenant’s traitlines when we first got to play with it.

So you come into a thread talking about Dungeons/fractals and say the traits look great even though you realize that for dungeons/fractals they’re pretty kitten poor? Sorry just find it funny but good on ya, they are great for PVP/WvW, with HoT I’ll be clearing my 3rd engi’s inventory (full of ascended rings) and making him a WvW scrapper for sure.

Apolo.5942:

How could they possibly know?.

364 is listed as the base damage for the chain. We know neither the power multiplier nor what the dev was wearing on stream.

The number is a concern, but its a storm in a teapot until we know more.

There is no way he was wearing anything but rabid.

ocirne.7915:

Dahkeus.8243:

@ Ocirne: Thank you for your contribution here. Sad to see so many people who are taking their frustration of the meta out on you.

I’m glad to see that the scrapper will be worth using in a DPS-focused build. Too bad the auto attack doesn’t fit in, but that’s probably to be expected considering how good the non-AA skills are.

I almost wish we didn’t have vuln and might on the weapon though. I have a feeling there will be plenty of this in a group setting to be capped even without this, making those a bit of a waste.

Thanks,

I would have personally loved to see a blast finisher on the auto 3rd hit and a bit more damage.

I think that would be great, but it would also likely come with bumping it up to 1s activation which I don’t think would be worth it.

I believe all of the elite specs so far that have given a main hand weapon have had that damage increased throughout testing. I still have hope that hammer auto can do more than grenades. It is the most risky play style being right in melee range, so it should do the most damage. I wouldn’t be super upset if this wasn’t the case since it is such an awesome all around weapon, but I can definitely justify +20% damage to at least equal grenades.

Jerus.4350:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Jerus.4350:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Really? I love that traitline almost as much as I love the Hammer.

I also love the Gyro toolbelt skills. Only thing I am iffy on are the Gyros themselves.

Curious what about it in reference to dungeons/fractals? Seems like a lot of more passive stuff and things that will be possibly nice but used once in a blue moon.

All of the lines are great for PvP and pretty good for WvW.

The Adept and Minor lines need work to make them better in Dungeons/Fractals, but I think we all realize this.

That half of the line need work does not change the fact that this is probably our most synergistic traitline. A LOT more thought seems to have gone into it than—for example—the Revenant’s traitlines when we first got to play with it.

So you come into a thread talking about Dungeons/fractals and say the traits look great even though you realize that for dungeons/fractals they’re pretty kitten poor? Sorry just find it funny but good on ya, they are great for PVP/WvW, with HoT I’ll be clearing my 3rd engi’s inventory (full of ascended rings) and making him a WvW scrapper for sure.

I said I liked it. And I like it due to its potential and the internal synergies it aims for. Never said it was great.

I think what is there is good enough as a base for further improvement. Remember, the expansion has not released yet. Instead of accepting the weakness of the line as a fait accompli I think this is the time to actively deconstruct it and give feedback.

In short, I generally disagree with how you and others are writing off the entire line as unsalvageable. Our please should definitely not be things like ‘allow non-scrappers to use hammers’ and more like: ‘where my damage modifiers at? what am I suppose to do with the F-Gyro in PvE?’.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Jerus.4350:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Jerus.4350:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Really? I love that traitline almost as much as I love the Hammer.

I also love the Gyro toolbelt skills. Only thing I am iffy on are the Gyros themselves.

Curious what about it in reference to dungeons/fractals? Seems like a lot of more passive stuff and things that will be possibly nice but used once in a blue moon.

All of the lines are great for PvP and pretty good for WvW.

The Adept and Minor lines need work to make them better in Dungeons/Fractals, but I think we all realize this.

That half of the line need work does not change the fact that this is probably our most synergistic traitline. A LOT more thought seems to have gone into it than—for example—the Revenant’s traitlines when we first got to play with it.

So you come into a thread talking about Dungeons/fractals and say the traits look great even though you realize that for dungeons/fractals they’re pretty kitten poor? Sorry just find it funny but good on ya, they are great for PVP/WvW, with HoT I’ll be clearing my 3rd engi’s inventory (full of ascended rings) and making him a WvW scrapper for sure.

I said I liked it. And I like it due to its potential and the internal synergies it aims for. Never said it was great.

I think what is there is good enough as a base for further improvement. Remember, the expansion has not released yet. Instead of accepting the weakness of the line as a fait accompli I think this is the time to actively deconstruct it and give feedback.

In short, I generally disagree with how you and others are writing off the entire line as unsalvageable. Our please should definitely not be things like ‘allow non-scrappers to use hammers’ and more like: ‘where my damage modifiers at? what am I suppose to do with the F-Gyro in PvE?’.

I can agree with that. I was waiting for the beta before I went off on it more than I have.

Just make hammer autos count as explosions, we change hammer for rifle and qe.are good to go