Guild Wars 2

I would like to see Irenio become active in this forum very soon. From looking through the Dev Tracker, the other professions are looking at timelines of fixes both before and after BWE3. Given that we’re down to 4 weekends before HoT I would really like to see Irenio start working with us and tweaking things before BWE3.

There is a lot that we need to test and play first, but there are also a lot of ideas we could be sharing back and forth in the mean time. Stuff like trait ideas and gyro solutions, or why he thinks gyros won’t suffer from the same problems as turrets, where he thinks hammer dps should be in the overall scope of the profession, or at the very least some insight into design decisions.

One of the things I have appreciated most throughout this BWE process is when many people (myself included) wanted some sort of energy management trait. Roy told us that it’s not a plan right now because traits like that quickly become mandatory much like Thieves and Trickery. I really appreciated that he didn’t just decide not to implement the suggestions for traits that give energy and let us keep wondering and suggesting, but he let us in on the design decision. It would be nice if we could start some of that interaction with Irenio sooner rather than later.

We have seen so many suggestions for gyros, it would be great if we could know what sorts of fixes are on the table and what isn’t so we could head into BWE3 with realistic expectations. For example if there’s no possibility of making gyros immune to conditions (just an example) it would be helpful if Irenio could let us into the design decisions a little sooner rather than have a lot of people waste time giving suggestions that has no intention of being implemented and end up just cluttering the forums. If he’s looking more towards increasing their health, we could approach BWE3 with that knowledge and give feedback based on increasing health instead of coming up with more damage negation ideas. If he wants to make them shorter and more powerful, or longer and more like turrets (please no) it would be great to get out ahead of it and know how to focus our feedback to be more helpful to him and the team. If Function Gyro cooldown is off the table, but making it more powerful isn’t, or vice versa, these would all be things we don’t have to play the Scrapper yet to start a discussion on.

Bump. Honestly I haven’t even heard a thing. In fact, I hardly remember any threads that have ever gotten an anet reply indicator. Hobosacs… Maybe 3-4 other threads. Ever. In the past several years. Am I looking in the wrong place?

It has not been that long, and I imagine Irenio is busy with Druid stuff.

I would hold out ’til the end of the week before I worry too much.

Goosekilla.2796:

Bump. Honestly I haven’t even heard a thing. In fact, I hardly remember any threads that have ever gotten an anet reply indicator. Hobosacs… Maybe 3-4 other threads. Ever. In the past several years. Am I looking in the wrong place?

It’s not unusual to see minimal-to-zero dev interaction in profession sub forums. However with HoT prep the devs have been doing a fantastic job interacting with each forum as the elite specs have come out, and not just simple yes or no type stuff they’ve given some real insight to the design process as I gave an example of above. I expect nothing less from Irenio.

My only hope is that it starts for us this week, I think waiting until after BWE3 to have meaningful discussion with the developers is a bad idea. Every elite spec thread I’ve had time to read across all professions has included significant changes, and multiple iterations through each BWE. We’re talking a lot more than just number tweaks here and there, there has been significant functionality iterations.

I don’t see a reason why Scrapper would not need the same amount of work and iterations on it, and rather than complaining about only having one BWE I would rather spend that time having open discussion with Irenio and improving the Scrapper before we get our hands on it. Stuff like overall design decisions and intentions that we can know for sure from what little we’ve seen, not stuff like DPS on the hammer.

Adamantium.3682:

Goosekilla.2796:

… Cut for brevity

It’s not unusual to see minimal-to-zero dev interaction in profession sub forums. However with HoT prep the devs have been doing a fantastic job interacting with each forum as the elite specs have come out, and not just simple yes or no type stuff they’ve given some real insight to the design process as I gave an example of above. I expect nothing less from Irenio.

My only hope is that it starts for us this week, I think waiting until after BWE3 to have meaningful discussion with the developers is a bad idea. Every elite spec thread I’ve had time to read across all professions has included significant changes, and multiple iterations through each BWE. We’re talking a lot more than just number tweaks here and there, there has been significant functionality iterations.

I don’t see a reason why Scrapper would not need the same amount of work and iterations on it, and rather than complaining about only having one BWE I would rather spend that time having open discussion with Irenio and improving the Scrapper before we get our hands on it. Stuff like overall design decisions and intentions that we can know for sure from what little we’ve seen, not stuff like DPS on the hammer.

That’s true, although there has yet to be a single thread on Scrapper I could find, even in the dev notes forum. Do other progressions also get shared by devs? I feel like rangers and engis are some of the rarest professions currently in high-level play, they’re the last two being revealed for HoT, and both have the same primary dev?! How in the world is he supposed to do both? Unless, again, I’m missing something and all the other profession’s devs are also in charge of multiple professions. I guess I’m saying it feels to me like Ireneo is being placed in an exdraordinarily difficult job being in charge of two professions, and worse, the two professions that were scheduled the most aggressively with respect to HoT release. My spirits are further dampened by the fact that they may be the two professions needing the most work currently (I say maybe because I think necro is probably more deserving of “needs second most work, after ranger”).

Edit: I formally retract my dubious-ness, per lorddarkflare’s educational reply. Although that stands more to strengthen the point of this thread: feedbax naow! I’m sure druid reveal is stealing a time, but… we’re important too?

Pretty much all the other profession devs handle multiple classes.

Robert Gee is handling Chronomancer, Reaper, Berserker. I think Daredevil, Dragonhunter and Tempest have Karl.

id to see him around of course but history has shown the devs dont come out of their hidey holes till after the profession gets played by errybuddy a bit :/

lorddarkflare.9186:

Pretty much all the other profession devs handle multiple classes.

Robert Gee is handling Chronomancer, Reaper, Berserker. I think Daredevil, Dragonhunter and Tempest have Karl.

This seems like poor resource management to me, like he should have been on 1 early profession and 1 late. At least say with Robert Gee his professions were all early and could go through a comprehensive testing process. I agree with the OP a dialogue has to start now.

morrolan.9608:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Pretty much all the other profession devs handle multiple classes.

Robert Gee is handling Chronomancer, Reaper, Berserker. I think Daredevil, Dragonhunter and Tempest have Karl.

This seems like poor resource management to me, like he should have been on 1 early profession and 1 late. At least say with Robert Gee his professions were all early and could go through a comprehensive testing process. I agree with the OP a dialogue has to start now.

I think you have that backward. The completion of the classes seems to drive the reveals, not the other way around.

lorddarkflare.9186:

morrolan.9608:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Pretty much all the other profession devs handle multiple classes.

Robert Gee is handling Chronomancer, Reaper, Berserker. I think Daredevil, Dragonhunter and Tempest have Karl.

This seems like poor resource management to me, like he should have been on 1 early profession and 1 late. At least say with Robert Gee his professions were all early and could go through a comprehensive testing process. I agree with the OP a dialogue has to start now.

I think you have that backward. The completion of the classes seems to drive the reveals, not the other way around.

OK but still an issue given the changes completed classes have gone through due to the BWEs. Scrapper and Druid are more likely to be bug ridden at HOT launch than other classes.

It would be great, if devs would talk with us, maybe some of us (including me) would better understand some decisions they made, and maybe some devs would use some usefull proposals from the community.

morrolan.9608:

lorddarkflare.9186:

morrolan.9608:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Pretty much all the other profession devs handle multiple classes.

Robert Gee is handling Chronomancer, Reaper, Berserker. I think Daredevil, Dragonhunter and Tempest have Karl.

This seems like poor resource management to me, like he should have been on 1 early profession and 1 late. At least say with Robert Gee his professions were all early and could go through a comprehensive testing process. I agree with the OP a dialogue has to start now.

I think you have that backward. The completion of the classes seems to drive the reveals, not the other way around.

OK but still an issue given the changes completed classes have gone through due to the BWEs. Scrapper and Druid are more likely to be bug ridden at HOT launch than other classes.

Yes indeed and since most people were expecting ranger to have the greatest mechanic overhaul, you’d think it would have the most testing time. Necro, ranger and Engineer, the three classes which need help the most by a wide margin and only necro got to the plate early to allow for tuning.
We’re almost at launch and Irenio couldn’t even show us the Function Gyro. Possibly the games weakest, least useful, most disappointing Elite base mechanic and it’s not even ina good enough state to show? If someone would at least come on and reassure us as to why any of this makes sense or why the Function wasn’t shown, that’d go a million miles to helping difuse the anger and disappointment on the forums.

Heck, just a quick note to let us know that they’re working on our worst, most useless traits in the core class and elite. Traits like Decisive Renown and Medical Dispersion Field. That’d be such a boost to morale.

Haralin.1473:

It would be great, if devs would talk with us, maybe some of us (including me) would better understand some decisions they made, and maybe some devs would use some usefull proposals from the community.

The thing is, the devs don’t need to post in these threads to get feedback. There are dozens of threads with hundreds of ideas already up here based on the live stream preview. Anyone with a browser can read the posts here and try to find a few good ideas amidst the mountain of ill conceived ones.

You may want to know more about the design decisions that lead up to the current iteration of the scrapper, but providing a history lesson isn’t going to do anything to improve the class.

I’m sure as close as we are to release at this point that time is at a premium, and I’d prefer that Irenio was frantically implementing the few good ideas he sees here rather than posting a dramatic monologue for everyone to pick apart.

Knox.8962:

Haralin.1473:

It would be great, if devs would talk with us, maybe some of us (including me) would better understand some decisions they made, and maybe some devs would use some usefull proposals from the community.

The thing is, the devs don’t need to post in these threads to get feedback. There are dozens of threads with hundreds of ideas already up here based on the live stream preview. Anyone with a browser can read the posts here and try to find a few good ideas amidst the mountain of ill conceived ones.

You may want to know more about the design decisions that lead up to the current iteration of the scrapper, but providing a history lesson isn’t going to do anything to improve the class.

I’m sure as close as we are to release at this point that time is at a premium, and I’d prefer that Irenio was frantically implementing the few good ideas he sees here rather than posting a dramatic monologue for everyone to pick apart.

I agree with you (“dramatic monologue” notwithstanding), but one thing I would really like to see is “hey guys we know you’re not so happy with A, we’re open to making X changes but we don’t really want to do Y type changes”.

This allows us to give him more valuable feedback about X, and stop wasting time and filling up the forums with Y changes.

Adamantium.3682:

I would really like to see is “hey guys we know you’re not so happy with A, we’re open to making X changes but we don’t really want to do Y type changes”.

This allows us to give him more valuable feedback about X, and stop wasting time and filling up the forums with Y changes.

I think everyone involved is aware that the first impressions of gyros hasn’t been very good.

I don’t think they’re focused on the core specs at this point, so I wouldn’t expect any news there. Do you want someone to come confirm that they acknowledge the complaints about gyros before anyone has had a chance to play with them?

Based on the other dev posts, it sounds like the BWE3 build is already locked, so they may as well wait for people to post informed feedback rather than responding to kneejerk reactions.

At least regarding medic gyro, there’s an aweful lot of math supporting the knee-jerk reactions. Kind of hard to imagine how that was thought to be something workable. I agree that it’ll be good to test everything, but if a move is so terrible that no one will slot it for more than 30 minutes of BWE3, then I think they’re not going to get very detailed feedback out of that.