Guild Wars 2

You gotta admit, the Shield of Engineer is one of the most darn well designed weapons in the entire game!

So much so, it’s actually worth taking one of the WORST main-hand weapons in the game (Pistol) just so that we could use the Shield offhand!

In one single off-hand weapon, we get:
- Reflection
- Crowd Control push-back
- Blast finisher
- Projectile block
- 2s Stun of foes in a line (as the shield hits twice)

Too bad the recharges are kinda high. Otherwise, this is one of the most freaking amazing off-hand weapons in the entire game!

Kudos, ANET! (Now if only you could make the rest of the Engineer as awesome as his shield…)

If block duration on static shield went from 2 seconds to 3 seconds then it would definitely be perfect~

Magnetic Shield should be 25 sec cooldown and Static Shield should be 30 sec
its almost required to get the shield trait to make it work

Super Riceman.8702:

Magnetic Shield should be 25 sec cooldown and Static Shield should be 30 sec
its almost required to get the shield trait to make it work

You don’t get the extra toughness in a kit though. I’d rather take Power Shoes.

Penguin.5197:

If block duration on static shield went from 2 seconds to 3 seconds then it would definitely be perfect~

Uhm I was actually thinking 5 like what’s enjoyed by other classes and mobs.

tigirius.9014:

Penguin.5197:

If block duration on static shield went from 2 seconds to 3 seconds then it would definitely be perfect~

Uhm I was actually thinking 5 like what’s enjoyed by other classes and mobs.

Lol, we don’t get what is enjoyed by other classes, only a fraction of the fun.

Specterryu Quipter.8412:

tigirius.9014:

Penguin.5197:

If block duration on static shield went from 2 seconds to 3 seconds then it would definitely be perfect~

Uhm I was actually thinking 5 like what’s enjoyed by other classes and mobs.

Lol, we don’t get what is enjoyed by other classes, only a fraction of the fun.

Exactly, I’m just playing by dev rules

Penguin.5197:

If block duration on static shield went from 2 seconds to 3 seconds then it would definitely be perfect~

It’ll stay at 2 due to the stun effect and the option to throw it, in addition to the fact that you can still act while blocking (i.e. attack, rez people, heal). Having these sorts of powers warrants a reduced duration.

In comparison, gear shield does not have any additional functionality other than blocking, and performing some other action will remove the blocking buff from your character. The warrior’s shield stance is in a similar vein.

I suppose engg shield does have longer default CDs, but I think 3s block with this is probably a bit much.

You can also preform other actions while using Static Shield as well such as; swapping kits, rezzing, shooting, pretty much anything and still retain the ability to block and even throw!

The problem i find is that i usually dont want to stun anyone, as the block ends at that. Ofc its fun playing razorback on thieves hoping for a easy backstab. But anything including clones can take that stun and waste your entire block. Stun wise i kind of envy shocking aura, sure it does not block, but it stuns anyone, even caltrops causes stun, and you can trait it to apply to allies as well. Its a short stun, but with paralyzation you get another second. The optimal use of static shield is pretty much blocking at range for as long as possible and then throwing it and hoping for 2 rupts. I pretty much use the magnetic shield for blast finishers in smoke fields, the area for the knock back feels minimal and standing still and reflecting (instead of magnetic auraing your team and being able to move and attack). Ofc they are versatile, but the recharges are pretty harsh considering you are rolling pistol mainhand.

Its fun though every now and again, my favorite beta weapon.

We need a power weapon to go with the shield for more build diversity though, a mace would be great.

The engi’s shield is awesome indeed. The warrior’s shield on the other hand isn’t so good.

Warrior’s shield is epic dude… that block and daze. Guardians would kill for it!

Kain Francois.4328:

one of the WORST main-hand weapons in the game (Pistol)

See, I don’t agree with that. Two of the three skills are amazing. A fast stacking poison attack? An AoE stun, blind, AND confuse? Where do I sign up?

I don’t think any other profession has a weapon that offers that much while still allowing for an offhand. Except maybe elementalists, but attunement.

Plus, an AE bleed on the #1, spammable (not part of a chain). Ofc this leads to erm… balance worries. But it’s quite unique.

The Magnetic Shield is awesome, but mostle like miriforst said, for the blast finisher.

I rarely use it for the reflect, as not a lot of build use projectile. I usually keep it for escaping with smoke bomb. As far as I know, Magnetic inversion is the only blast finisher we have that does the blast after the damage, meaning you don’t intsant gt revealed if you hit someone when using it.

I love Static Shield again any class, I just open the fight, poison dart andstatic shot, then pull up #5 and charge to them. Get into melee and they get stunned from hitting me, then just combo them to oblivion.

Since release, I never took shield before, but now I love it. Stealth when roaming is incredible.

Carighan.6758:

Plus, an AE bleed on the #1, spammable (not part of a chain). Ofc this leads to erm… balance worries. But it’s quite unique.

Actually, that’s a tooltip error. From what I understand it used to act that way in Beta, but now the bleeds only apply to your target and the explosion damage is the aoe component.

Kardiamond.6952:

Since release, I never took shield before, but now I love it. Stealth when roaming is incredible.

I’m missing something….stealth?

@Seras

You use the blast finisher with smoke field to get 3 second of invis. You can get smoke field from smoke bomb, flame turret(meh) or smoke bomb trait.

And our shield blast is awesome because it does the damage before you get the stealth, so you don’t get the revealed debuff.

If you use big ol bomb, rocket bomb and the rifle leap all does damage after getting stealth. Meaning that if your blast hit someone, you won’t get the stealth, you will be instant revelead. Which is prolly a bad coding issue from Anet.

Pretty useful when you want to finish a downed oponent in a group fight. Throw a smoke bomb, use your shield #4 to push everyone and get stealth and start your finisher. Now people won’t see you until the last second of your finisher, and your downed opponent will be blinded.

Clip.6845:

We need a power weapon to go with the shield for more build diversity though, a mace would be great.

Power weapon is a great idea. But I do not want a mace or hammer. Maybe a hand crossbow. I would say a vibroknife or vibrosword, but those are not weapons that could be shared with other classes. However, I guess the weapon abilities could be designed to make a regular sword or dagger vibro-ish.

While I agree that a dedicated 1h power weapon would be nice (mace?) the pistol actually works quite well. You won’t be spending much time dealing damage in pistol if you’re running a grenade/bomb/FT kit. But the #2 poison dart volley actually scales pretty well with power builds, dealing upwards of 4k total damage with berserker gear. Plus, poison is never a bad thing (30% healing reduction). And pistol #3 is a fantastic utility for bouncing aoe blind & confusion. Pop em & then swap back into your kit.

Jigain.8231:

Kain Francois.4328:

one of the WORST main-hand weapons in the game (Pistol)

See, I don’t agree with that. Two of the three skills are amazing. A fast stacking poison attack? An AoE stun, blind, AND confuse? Where do I sign up?

I don’t think any other profession has a weapon that offers that much while still allowing for an offhand. Except maybe elementalists, but attunement.

I do agree with it.

Pistol should never be as slow to cast as rifle, should never miss at the higher levels (poison darts/blowtorch) and some of the traits could use some work to enhance the pistol to match what is enjoyed by the ranger and thief with their preferred weapons.

I disagree,

Right now our Pistol is our strongest weapon. Mostly because of static shot and long duration poison.

HGH and Node bomber both use it.

Maybe our auto attack with pistol is lacking a bit, but it’s not like you auto attack often as an engineer.

Yea seems to be a love / hate divide among the engineers on the pistol. I definitely fall into the love category. For me, I like the fact that I can get so many conditions from it. Bleed, poison, confusion, burn, and blind in one weapon? Yea, I’m a fan.

tigirius.9014:

Jigain.8231:

Kain Francois.4328:

one of the WORST main-hand weapons in the game (Pistol)

See, I don’t agree with that. Two of the three skills are amazing. A fast stacking poison attack? An AoE stun, blind, AND confuse? Where do I sign up?

I don’t think any other profession has a weapon that offers that much while still allowing for an offhand. Except maybe elementalists, but attunement.

I do agree with it.

Pistol should never be as slow to cast as rifle, should never miss at the higher levels (poison darts/blowtorch) and some of the traits could use some work to enhance the pistol to match what is enjoyed by the ranger and thief with their preferred weapons.

Blowtorch isn’t a mainhand pistol ability.

For everything else, what Kardiamond said.

People discuss the pistol as if this thread wasn’t about the shield.
What I mean is this: if you like the pistol, it means you work on condition damage.
if you use condition damage, you should equip 2 pistols for blowtorch.

So if you equip the shield, it is very likely that you didn’t max out on condition damage.
And for those builds… pistol main hand is pretty weak in damage.

Pistol scales a bit on power, true, but in a power build pistol #1 takes aaaaages to kill anything. Use rifle, bombs, Flamethrower, tool kit or even grenades with that exact same build and you’ll see how weak pistol damage is without going conditions.

See, it’s not about liking pistol or not, it’s about: being forced to use a condition damage weapon with a shield.

Not all shield users are condition build, but I think most that go full conditions tend to use pistol ofhand.

Definitely the best shield skillset in the game, yet so few people seem to even be aware.

Guild got into a discussion on this exact subject yesterday. I was the only one to even mention engineer…

I love my shield! I try to remember to use #4 for reflection too. Gotta love watching a ranger fire away without realizing what’s happening…

miriforst.1290:

The problem i find is that i usually dont want to stun anyone, as the block ends at that. Ofc its fun playing razorback on thieves hoping for a easy backstab. But anything including clones can take that stun and waste your entire block. Stun wise i kind of envy shocking aura, sure it does not block, but it stuns anyone, even caltrops causes stun, and you can trait it to apply to allies as well. Its a short stun, but with paralyzation you get another second. The optimal use of static shield is pretty much blocking at range for as long as possible and then throwing it and hoping for 2 rupts. I pretty much use the magnetic shield for blast finishers in smoke fields, the area for the knock back feels minimal and standing still and reflecting (instead of magnetic auraing your team and being able to move and attack). Ofc they are versatile, but the recharges are pretty harsh considering you are rolling pistol mainhand.

Its fun though every now and again, my favorite beta weapon.

That stun can completely ruin a burst from any profession,and the 2 seconds allow you plenty of time to heal or set something else up.

If you had any idea of how many people I’ve knocked off of cliffs with magnetic inversion, well… let’s just say I’ve knocked a lot of people off cliffs with magnetic inversion.

The projectile reflection is no joke either. Gives you a nice tool against rangers, works well with the confusion you can apply on them too. Very handy in a variety of PvE scenarios as well.

I honestly don’t care too much for main hand pistol, I just use it so I can use the shield. It is inherently more defensive, so you can’t expect it to equal the damage of dual pistols or rifle, but I think that’s good for variety’s sake.

Main hand pistol does need work though… bleed should be in an AoE, and I wish that kitten volley would shoot straight. Static shot is fine though.

I love my shield, heck I even trait it.
But with that poor pistol main hand I’m not killing anything, ever.

Pistol #1 should pierce untraited at least.
Decent mutli-target damage while defending with the shield? Yes, that sounds like a good trade-of.

Double pistol in a condition build is pretty awesome, but pistol main with shield ofhand? Nothing is going to die to that. Even when your tactic is to ‘outlast’ the opponent, he still will outheal that low damage.

When you equip a shield, you better also equip a high damage kit.
And to even have a kit doing high damage at all, you better fully trait that kit.
That’s the downside of using a shield: no matter how awesome it is, you will need something else to do damage with.

Honestly, pistol #1 should never be relied upon for killing stuff. #2-3 are great, and should be used often for their conditions, regardless of whether or not you’ve geared for condition damage. #2 is poison, which may not do a whole lotta damage w/o a condition build but it will still reduce healing by 30%, which is huge in any build. Also, it can hit for 4k in full zerker gear. That’s healthy & comparable to any power-based skill in my book. And static shot is an aoe blind & confusion. Both of which work well in a power build. Confusion scales terribly with condition damage so it’s still effective as a deterent w/o a condition build.

Kimbald.2697:

People discuss the pistol as if this thread wasn’t about the shield.
What I mean is this: if you like the pistol, it means you work on condition damage.
if you use condition damage, you should equip 2 pistols for blowtorch.

So if you equip the shield, it is very likely that you didn’t max out on condition damage.
And for those builds… pistol main hand is pretty weak in damage.

Pistol scales a bit on power, true, but in a power build pistol #1 takes aaaaages to kill anything. Use rifle, bombs, Flamethrower, tool kit or even grenades with that exact same build and you’ll see how weak pistol damage is without going conditions.

See, it’s not about liking pistol or not, it’s about: being forced to use a condition damage weapon with a shield.

Not all shield users are condition build, but I think most that go full conditions tend to use pistol ofhand.

I use shield, and I still do good damage. The only difference is pistol offhand got an AoE burn. Yet you can get burn via other source, so it might not be an issue.

What you get in exchange is an AoE push, a blast finisher, a missile reflect, a 2 sec daze/stun, a two second block.

What you “can lose” (if you don’t have other burn source) in dps you get it back in utility and survivability.

Blast finisher + smoke bomb + super speed = 100% escape in any fight.

Kardiamond.6952:

What you “can lose” (if you don’t have other burn source) in dps you get it back in utility and survivability.

Blast finisher + smoke bomb + super speed = 100% escape in any fight.

This is pretty much why I roll with a shield in dungeons. I deal plenty of damage outside of my pistol set. Yes, pistol #4 hits hard with a nice burn, but the shield’s utility, especially with that extra blast finisher, is just so nice.

as I said: I always use the shield.

But could the 3 people above claiming it’s ok that pistol #1 does little damage, explain me one thing:

how do you kill anything when using shield?

my claim is: you need a seperate kit for that, and you better trait that kit to do damage than.

I was NOT talking about pistol #4 being better than using a shield.
I was saying you don’t kill anything with a pistol-shield set up, unless you go for a seperate kit.

You can use rifle as primary weapon, you can use p/p as primary weapon, you can use kits as primary weapon… but you can NOT use pistol-shield as a primary weapon since you can not kill anything with it unless it’s brainless, harmless and has zero healing.

That’s a very big trade-of right there.
I love the utility of the shield, I use it defensively as well as offensively.
But the lack of damage in that set-up is a big issue. It forces you to have a primary weapon set while it’s supposed to be a primary weapon set…

‘Less’ damage is ok and perfectly fine, you get defenses for it.
But pistol main hand in anything but a high condition build does too little damage.
And those builds use pistol ofhand for obvious reasons.

Bottom line is this:
there is a minimum limit when you are doing too low damage to kill another player who heals, or a champion, or a bunch of boss adds.
A shield can only keep you alive for so long. If you aren’t hurting your opponent, you will still die in the end.
My claim is that no primary weapon set should be stuck below that treshhold, and pistol-shield is below that…

Take pistol + shield and then add flame thrower.

For PVP, sit on a node and hit 4, 5, 3, then flip to flamethrower, 5 and 3. You can basically keep people blinded, stunned, and interrupted. The static shock when traited right can inflict a burn per bounce or couple with ft’s tool belt. If they have stability then you just keep them blinded. Pistol is not meant to do spike damage. For rifle go power, for pistol go CD and precision. Spec for conditions on crit and you can watch dot. If you piece with pistol then each pierce triggers a crit.

All in all, I find that pistol shines when you go rabid + sigils that trigger on crit. I do freeze on crit and vuln on crit. I can stack vuln with traits and sigils plus I use HGH to gain might. Even some knights are ok. That’s just how I roll with pistol and shield.

EDIT for Kim, it’s the effective use of stun, daze, interrupt to prevent healing while hitting on conditions. Even if they cleanse, you reapply on crit which you are doing on every hit. It can be done.

@Kimbald
You don’t want to be using your guns to kill anything. Really. Rifle #1 hits harder than pistol sure, but why would you sit there and autoattack someone to death when you can use a kit? Rifle is a control weapon, despite its single hardish hitting attack and its leap. Pistols are primarily condition weps and shield is utility. Either way, you should never sit in your gun set for very long unless you are 100% specced for rifle/SD build. Having said that, I think a SD build works better in ToolKit anyway. I find that your guns are best used by swapping into them, using the skill(s) you need, and then swapping back into your damage kit. None of our rifle/pistol/shield are better than…well, any of our kits for killing stuff.

So, all that said, shield is amazing. Since our rifle/pistol/shield aren’t used to kill but to supplement, shield is our best supplement.

Kimbald.2697:

could the 3 people above claiming it’s ok that pistol #1 does little damage, explain me one thing:

how do you kill anything when using shield?

A fine question! Here’s a couple of examples from my personal journal.

• Reflected a warrior’s Kill Shot back at him.
• Dived straight into a zerg in WvW and pushed about half of them off a cliff.
• Dazing low-health opponents trying to heal with Throw Shield.
• Quickly stacking poison on enemies.

Those are just some of the fun ways I’ve killed people while wielding a pistol and shield.

Now, a counter-question, if you don’t mind. Why are you so focused on killing things when using a shield? It’s a soft + hard CC build with some condition damage added for funsies. Saying you can’t really kill anything is like, and forgive the analogy, making a D&D Cleric, stack up healing spells, then complain the game is unbalanced because you don’t do as much damage as a Sorceror. :P

@Kimb

I don’t know I don’t auto attack with my pistol. Or maybe sometime just to bait oponent into dodging.

Jigain.8231:

Kimbald.2697:

could the 3 people above claiming it’s ok that pistol #1 does little damage, explain me one thing:

how do you kill anything when using shield?

A fine question! Here’s a couple of examples from my personal journal.

• Reflected a warrior’s Kill Shot back at him.
• Dived straight into a zerg in WvW and pushed about half of them off a cliff.
• Dazing low-health opponents trying to heal with Throw Shield.
• Quickly stacking poison on enemies.

Those are just some of the fun ways I’ve killed people while wielding a pistol and shield.

Now, a counter-question, if you don’t mind. Why are you so focused on killing things when using a shield? It’s a soft + hard CC build with some condition damage added for funsies. Saying you can’t really kill anything is like, and forgive the analogy, making a D&D Cleric, stack up healing spells, then complain the game is unbalanced because you don’t do as much damage as a Sorceror. :P

every build, of every profession should, in the end… be able to kill things in this game.
And don’t say it’s for support, because a shield does not define a support build. Elixir gun, healing bombs, healing turret to some extend, define a support build.
And in this game, without a trinity, even a support build has to stand it’s own.
So D&D roles have no relevance here at all, sorry. Your cleric isn’t supposed to kill anything, a GW2 build is. Full support builds maybe less, but a shield does not grant the ‘support’ in a support build, not more than a Big Old bomb or an exploding turret.

And I did NOT say I wanted as much damage as high damage builds, I said pistol main hand fell below the treshhold of killing anything on it’s own.
There is a big difference.

People keep trying to convince me of the usefullness of the shield, when I argue about the lack of damage of the pistol main hand.
For the record: first thing I did on my engineer, even during the tutorial, was look for a shield. I still use one to this day.
I know what it can do, and I value it very highly.

I’m not focused on killing things when I’m in the shield-pistol set, because I know that can’t be done except for simple mobs I could kill unarmed with only toolbelt skills or something

I’m pointing at the one big flaw in the design of the engineer shield option: you need something else for damage, and given the design that can only be a kit. A kit you have to trait for as well.

Rifle can be used to kill things up close just fine. P/P is beyond discussion.
Pistol shield can not, not on it’s own. No matter the build, you need a secondary kit to do real damage.
That’s a pistol main hand flaw, an overtuning early on, it is not a shield flaw.

Shield has only one flaw for me: a too long base cooldown. Base should be what it becomes traited now.

Coated bullets, while using a shield, aimed at a zerg or group of mobs… I realise that’s a crapload of numbers right there.
But in a small fight, you soon notice it’s not all that effective as the spamming of numbers on your screen suggests

Kimbald.2697:

Jigain.8231:

A fine question! Here’s a couple of examples from my personal journal.

• Reflected a warrior’s Kill Shot back at him.
• Dived straight into a zerg in WvW and pushed about half of them off a cliff.
• Dazing low-health opponents trying to heal with Throw Shield.
• Quickly stacking poison on enemies.

Those are just some of the fun ways I’ve killed people while wielding a pistol and shield.

Now, a counter-question, if you don’t mind. Why are you so focused on killing things when using a shield? It’s a soft + hard CC build with some condition damage added for funsies. Saying you can’t really kill anything is like, and forgive the analogy, making a D&D Cleric, stack up healing spells, then complain the game is unbalanced because you don’t do as much damage as a Sorceror. :P

every build, of every profession should, in the end… be able to kill things in this game.
And don’t say it’s for support, because a shield does not define a support build.

Did you even read what I wrote? I said a pistol and shield is a control weapon set. Not support. Control. And you can’t argue that it isn’t, as it features two hard CCs (knockback, stun) as well as two soft CCs (blind, daze). As you didn’t like the D&D example, I’ll strike a little closer to home – saying pistol and shield does not define a control playstyle is like saying the grenade kit cannot be used for hitting multiple targets.

Jigain.8231:

Kimbald.2697:

Jigain.8231:

A fine question! Here’s a couple of examples from my personal journal.

• Reflected a warrior’s Kill Shot back at him.
• Dived straight into a zerg in WvW and pushed about half of them off a cliff.
• Dazing low-health opponents trying to heal with Throw Shield.
• Quickly stacking poison on enemies.

Those are just some of the fun ways I’ve killed people while wielding a pistol and shield.

Now, a counter-question, if you don’t mind. Why are you so focused on killing things when using a shield? It’s a soft + hard CC build with some condition damage added for funsies. Saying you can’t really kill anything is like, and forgive the analogy, making a D&D Cleric, stack up healing spells, then complain the game is unbalanced because you don’t do as much damage as a Sorceror. :P

every build, of every profession should, in the end… be able to kill things in this game.
And don’t say it’s for support, because a shield does not define a support build.

Did you even read what I wrote? I said a pistol and shield is a control weapon set. Not support. Control. And you can’t argue that it isn’t, as it features two hard CCs (knockback, stun) as well as two soft CCs (blind, daze). As you didn’t like the D&D example, I’ll strike a little closer to home – saying pistol and shield does not define a control playstyle is like saying the grenade kit cannot be used for hitting multiple targets.

yeqs I read it.
And I fully agree that it is an awesome control set up. that’s why I use it.
But control alone doesn’t kill your opponent (player or boss).
And pistol main hand doesn’t add enough damage to that superb control, so you need something besides that.

Rifle is control too, but it can kill it’s opponent. Double pistol is bit less control but still some, and can certainly kill your opponent in the right builds.

You can take any kit and build around so it can do sufficient damage on it’s own.
Which is not the same as saying it’s top damage, let alone ‘burst’. But at least the kit will do the damage needed. Tool kit needs more help than others, and I agree if you say Elixir gun is below that standard. It’s a bordercase at best.

I’ll put it this way:
everybody can link builds with p/p that need no other kit to kill someone.
There are rifle builds that need no kit to kill something worth killing.
Kits too can be traited to be your main damage source.

However, there are no pistol-shield builds that can kill something, unless they trait and slot a kit to do the damage.
So it falls short on the standard of being a sufficient weapon kit on it’s own.

Wow…it’s like he’s not even paying attention. Apparently, every weapon must be able to kill stuff, regardless of whether or not it’s designed to or not. “yes, it’s a control weapon and it’s great at what it’s designed for. but it can’t kill stuff so it sucks.” but it’s not supposed to be used to kill. “i agree. but what’s different about it is that you can’t kill with it” i mean…..<sigh>

Seras.5702:

Wow…it’s like he’s not even paying attention. Apparently, every weapon must be able to kill stuff, regardless of whether or not it’s designed to or not. “yes, it’s a control weapon and it’s great at what it’s designed for. but it can’t kill stuff so it sucks.” but it’s not supposed to be used to kill. “i agree. but what’s different about it is that you can’t kill with it” i mean…..<sigh>

where the heck did I ever say it sucks???

Your whole reply twists my words.
I pointed at a design issue where shield-pistol is the only engineer weapon set that can’t work alone even if you trait it fully. (elixir gun being a bordercase indeed)

Every reply I made shows I’m paying attention to what you say, so stop being so arrogant.
You’re missing my point as well you know so get of your high horse.

I’ll make a small resume to avoid people arguing for the sake of arguing, me included.

Yes, I like the shield. A lot.
Yes, I use it in every build, except specific test builds I do sometimes.
Yes, I use it for the utility-control.

So far you’re following?

Despite actually using the shield for the same reasons as the others here, I can still see that pistol-shield is a weapon set that needs another weapon set to do even the minimal damage needed for pvp, wvw or dungeons.
That’s an observance, nothing more nothing less.

When comparing this to other engineer weapon sets, I conclude that pistol-shield is actually the only weapon set of engineers that can’t be made to work on it’s own.

So the last question is: does it offer that much more utility than any other weapon set engineer has acces to? So much more it warrants not having enough damage, where the others can be traited to have that?
The answer is: better utility than some, but not better than all. Certainly not: so incredibly better than the other sets it justifies doing too little damage.

Last point: is this the fault of the shield?
Of course not.
The weakness lies in the overnerfing of pistol main hand. This happened very early in the game. Key seems to be the firing rate of the pistol #1.
Solve this, and you made pistol-shield a fully functional weapon set on it’s own. Without being too high dmage for such good defenses and control.

That’s it.
Can people now stop reacting as if I say shield is crap?

It’s an opinion, not an observation. An observation is noting a fact, an opinion is a belief or judgment based on grounds insufficient to make an observation. Not saying one is more important than the other, but I see the two words intermingled so often I just get sick of it. That pistol/shield is not adequate to even enter a PvP map, to even visit a dungeon, or even go to WvW is not a fact, it’s your own opinion.

The pistol/shield set is fully functional as it is. I recognize this, others in this very thread recognize this. Many engineers use it to great effect in dungeons, PvP, and WvW. The reason it doesn’t work as well for you as for those who stand in favor of it is that you cannot let go of your preconception that the pistol/shield needs to be focused on damage. The key point is that, as stated earlier, the weapon set is tuned to control. Three of the five weapon skills are direct crowd control skills – two soft, two hard. While not technically control, one of the remaining two skills quickly apply a (reasonably) long-lasting effect that reduces the target’s healing, which in my personal opinion should at least partially fall into support. It is very obvious that this weapon setup is not intended as a pure damage setup. You’re not meant to play it as such, not any more than you build a grenade kit engi for healing, or make a melee ranged longbow ranger. You’re complaining about a non-issue. If you want a weapon set that’s focused on damage, you’ll have to let go of the control abilities of the shield. You can’t have the cake and eat it at the same time.

Post scriptum:
You are saying the shield is crap. You’re saying pistol/shield (which is the only way of using a shield) can not, under any circumstances, be used in any of the game’s activities save solo PvE (and I’m not sure if you haven’t claimed it cannot be used there, either). Shield and pistol/shield is the SAME THING. You’re saying one thing is crap, you’re saying both are crap.

Long story short, pistol/shield is fine if you play it the way it was intended, and you really should drop the “must max dps” argument – the setup shines in group engagements (like PvP, WvW, dungeons) where CC triumphs topping invisible damage meters.

There, I said it.

I basically said pistol shield needed a kit to complement it, no matter how you trait it.
That’s not the same as saying it can not be used, let alone the ‘under any circumstances bull’ you add to twisting my words.
How many times do I have to repeat it: I use the shield all the bloody time.
So your whole discours isn’t about my posts, sorry. It’s about your biased interpretation of my posts.

Of course you can enter pve, wvw and what not with pistol-shield. I do it every single day I play.
I just can’t do it without having at least one kit traited too.

Is that a big deal? Nope, there are more pressing matters.
But it is the only weapon set where you need to complemetn it no matter how you trait yes.

If this is not the case, as you say: link me a pistol shield build that is effective and doesn’t use a single kit.
Turrets? Gadgets? They would be the solution, if they didn’t have their own issues.
So not a theorycrafted build please, a real one.

if you can link such a build that really works, than my whole argument is indeed an opinion.
If you can not make a build that really works, than it is actually an observation.
The difference is not theoretical at all, it is practical. And it can change of course: I would gladly stand corrected if proven wrong.

And if people can use pistol-shield without any kit at all, I applaud that of course.
I’m not here to put opinions down. Despite the hostile reactions I keep recieving, I’m just here to hold a open discussion about the shield.
But ex-kitten-cuse me if that discussion also includes things you don’t like to hear.
I don’t mind hearing arguments that I don’t agree with, ever. I just reacted to that one insulting post that basically didn’t have an argument in it all.

Why are you lot so hostile if I claim that pistol-shield always needs a kit to back it up, where any other weapon set can be traited and geared to work on it’s own?
What is so dam wrong with that?
And mostly: why do so many of you twist this into ’you’re saying the shield is crap’?
It’s a forum post discussing the shield, so that’s what I’m doing.

Of course the shield is control-utility, and of course that makes it valuable.

Now that is a much more reasonable standpoint.

I don’t deny that the pistol/shield weapon set lacks damage output. In fact, it’s what I’ve been saying all this time. And yes, to do reliable damage you will need to bring another weapon in the form of switching between combat situations or just using a kit. All of these points that you made, I do not have a problem with.

What I do have a problem with is your previous statements, which may be overgeneralizations but no less inaccurate for it. I quote the particular segments:

if you like the pistol, it means you work on condition damage
Incorrect. The pistol, along with the shield, is a primarily control weapon set. Now if you were talking about pistol/pistol you may have a point, but in the context you were talking about mainhand pistol on its own, independent of shield or offhand pistol. Pistol/shield is control, not condition damage focused.

it’s not about liking pistol or not, it’s about: being forced to use a condition damage weapon with a shield.
Again, it’s not a condition damage weapon set, it’s a control weapon set. You’re supposed to supplement it with other methods of dealing damage.

with that poor pistol main hand I’m not killing anything, ever.
Again, you’re meant to supplement your loadout with an offensive weapon set in the form of altrernative weapons or kits. That you’re unable to kill “anything ever” means that you’re not grasping that fact by bringing another source of damage.

Pistol #1 should pierce untraited at least.
This is where the crap really starts to hit the fan. Not only have you concluded that the control weapon set doesn’t work as a pure damage set (while oblivious to the fact it was never meant to), now you go requesting balance changes so that the weapon will better suit your personal needs, or if you will, turning it into the end-all-be-all weapon for engineers rather than leaving at least a little bit of personal preference to the user.

you can NOT use pistol-shield as a primary weapon since you can not kill anything with it
pistol main hand in anything but a high condition build does too little damage.
The game isn’t all about the damage, damage, damage, more dots, I’m top of the damage meter. Just because a weapon set doesn’t do max damage, it doesn’t mean you cannot use it as a primary weapon set. Especially in group play, where it shines.

don’t say it’s for support, because a shield does not define a support build. Elixir gun, healing bombs, healing turret to some extend, define a support build.
Now this is a gem. You did later concede that pistol/shield is a control build, and you bring up such wonderful examples as elixir gun. Yeah, elixir gun is a terrific support weapon, just like pistol/shield is a terrific control weapon. So why isn’t the elixir gun dealing damage on par with, say, ‘nades or 100blades or glass cannon elementalists? *Because it’s a support weapon*. Same applies to pistol/shield.

Your cleric isn’t supposed to kill anything, a GW2 build is.
Incorrect. Not every build is geared towards killing everything. Many group-based builds aren’t. My warrior currently has a tankish build, for example. He doesn’t kill things lightning quick. Yet guess who’s being whispered every time he comes online on that character? I’ll give you a hint, he’s got two thumbs and both are pointing at him.

where the heck did I ever say it sucks???
As I’ve quoted above, you have on numerous occasions said that the weapon set is useless, that you cannot use it as a primary weapon under any circumstances, that it needs to be buffed to be usable, et cetera. All of these are the same as saying the weapon set sucks.

So the last question is: does it offer that much more utility than any other weapon set engineer has acces to? So much more it warrants not having enough damage, where the others can be traited to have that?
The answer is yes. Undoubtedly yes. Pistol/pistol offers two soft CCs (blind + immobilize). Rifle offers one hard CC and one soft CC (knockback + immobilize). Pistol/shield offers twice as much as both of these, with two hard and two soft CCs, as detailed earlier. Even looking at weapon kits this holds true: bomb kit, two soft CCs (blind + immobilize); elixir gun, no CC (unless you count cripple as a soft CC, but personally I hardly find it worth even that); flamethrower, one hard and one soft CC (blind + knockback); grenade kit, two soft CCs (blind + chill); medkit, no CC; mortar, one soft CC (chill); tool kit, one soft CC (pull). As you can see, the pistol/shield build has twice as much CC as any other potential weapon the engineer has access to.

I’m afraid I’ll have to cut the rebuttal short here, because I’m expected elsewhere. But hopefully this will have provided some things to consider at least.

Ciao!

I rock a non hgh might stacking pistol/shield build thats pretty useful in group situations. specially for smaller groups vs larger zerg. here’s some random footage
from yesterday:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8Dc4E52jAzI
I agree with the OP. The Shield is just too friggin amazing.

I never use shield but i dont pvp/wvw much so that is why. In PVE control doesn’t matter but yea its a good off hand weapon very versatile. So many tools packed into 2 skills.

Jigain.8231:

Even looking at weapon kits this holds true: bomb kit, two soft CCs (blind + immobilize)

I think you’re forgetting knockback on Big Ol’ Bomb.