Guild Wars 2

I’ve got some idea for turrets, so i’ll explain them here. Many of those were already explained in my previous posts, but i’m adding some more here.
In short, i want to give active play and micromanagement to turrets, while punishing mindless spamming. Here is how.

First of all, every turret is tied with a resource (displayed as a boon, so that even enemies can see it). Said resource is called Energy. If UI changes can be done, it could also be displayed in a little panel above every turret skill button, so that we can have a clear understanding of the situation when needed.
Energy will be gained automatically – one stack every X seconds (i was thinking about 1 energy per 2 seconds). It maxes out at 25 energy. Turrets would start with barely enough energy to be in the second tier.
Turrets will be able to be critted and will receive conditions, as it happens now. However, their hp will be increased and can receive boons.
But their toughness and the condition damage they receive (if technically feasible, i assume it can be done, though) will change depending on how much energy they have (for simplicity’s sake i was thinking about 3 tiers, with visual changes on the turrets to give a clear tell of their tiers even when they aren’t directly targeted).
For this example i was thinking about 0-10 energy, 10-20 energy and over 20 energy.
Lower the tier the glassier they get, making them easier to destroy. The middle tier is intended as the default one (so normal turret toughness and condition damage).

Let’s get to the offensive department.
There are autoattacks, like now. However, they’re terrible. Like, really terrible. Something like a third of their current damage or a weaker effect (net turret would just cripple, for example). They’re there just to be a minor annoyance, like flies.
And there are still overcharges. But they work differently from before. For starters, they would interrupt the normal attack cycle of the turret, unlike now.
Overcharges consume energy to be used, and have different tiers (as in a chain attack).
Higher tiers consume higher values of energy (and by lowering the energy, the turret’s defense lowers as well). Due of the energy costs, their cooldowns may be lowered and standardized (like 5s or 10s). Using an overcharge prompts an animation on the turret, and a clear tell (something like a laser scope from the turret to the opponent, a green one). Pressing the overcharge during this time would take it to the second tier and reset the animation (laser changes to yellow) and once again, to the third and last overcharge tier (another animation reset, laser changes to the red laser of death). When the laser goes off, the skill is ready to go as well. In doing so, we are certain that there will be some time for the enemy to counterplay, but the engineer can trick the enemy as well (an enemy could blind as early as the green laser, but then the engineer could just leave it at that and conserve the energy for later).
The 1st overcharge tier would just be a (relatively) stronger autoattack. Most of the damage we’ve removed from the autoattacks would end up here. They wouldn’t deal hard CC, but soft at most (net turret could immobilize and/or cripple, for example).
Its cost would be relatively low – maybe 7 or 8 energy. A fully energized turret would fall in the second tier for some seconds.
The second overcharge tier would be mostly equal to the current overcharge. Energy costs could vary between 10 to 14. A turret with maxed energy would be left in the second tier for a sensible amount of time.
The third and last overcharge tier would consume almost all the energy – something around the 22 to 25 range. The strong effects they provide come with a sensible drawback – the turret will need quite some time to recover, and until then it can be easily destroyed.

By giving multiple overcharge tiers and tying them with the defensive capabilities of the turrets, mindless plays are discouraged. Using a third tier overcharge without a clear plan behind that can easily make your turret destroyed. Having the possibility of using different combinations of overcharges would also make a full turret build less predictable (one could go for a defensive playstyle and just going for tier 1 attacks – but it would have no hard CC, unlike now) or trying to chain two tier 2 overcharges in short succession, if that’s what he thinks best for that situation (again, leaving the turret depleted if he fails). A turret player finally has the instruments to play smart.
And players are incentivized to leave turrets on the floor, as proper turrets. Especially since you can’t just put them down,overcharge and pick up/detonate them as before – they would have just enough energy for the first tier.

Let’s also talk about other changes, still related to turrets.
The tool kit would also change a bit. In exchange for a lower turret healing capability, hitting the turrets would give them energy. Magnet could also be used to recharge some energy from a distance.
An engineer using the tool kit would use less turrets – of course – but by carefully working with them (also known as mauling them with a wrench) he’s able to use stronger overcharges with a major frequency (or leave them less exposed to danger if needed).
Detonation’s effects may also change according to energy (so that detonating a turret just placed is disincentivized, and doing it after a failed 3rd tier overcharge wouldn’t be rewarding either)

Traits would also change in some ways. Some are already getting removed with the core specialization overhaul.
I would propose to remove experimental turrets and put back autotool installation, albeit working in a more active way. On a overcharge, heal the turret depending on the turret’s current energy.
Likewise, the fortified turrets + metal plating one could change as well. Instead of giving toughness, it would just raise their max hp. Fortified turrets would work on overcharge too, giving effects based on the tier of the overcharge used (purely for example – first tier: 2s protection and 2 second resistance, shield that blocks projectiles for 2s; second tier: 3s protection and 3s resistance, shield that blocks projectiles for 3s; third tier: 4s protection and 4s resistance, shield that reflects projectiles for 3s).
Rifled turret barrels is getting removed as well; but i would rather give the 1500 range as a default to a turret at least, be it rocket or rifle, so that there are also turrets that can’t just be outranged (apart from bugs).

Edit: As Aowys points out, turret detonation, being an explosion and blast finisher (assuming it remains the same as now, at least) should be affected by explosions and blast finisher related traits.
Edit 2: i did forget about the pick-up. Imho, picking it up could reduce the cooldown by half. Turrets’ energy system already requires them to stand in a point for some time, so it would be balanced by the time they would spend to charge up again in their new position.

I shouldn’t have forgot anything. If i have, i’ll add it later. Discuss.

Add this or ask it. Why doesnt turret blast work with the explosive powder trait??
Or the turret knockback. This is something that has been overlooked.
traits 5&7 in explosive should work together .

Because i hadn’t thought about those traits at all. Albeit, it makes sense for them to work.
I’ll add it, albeit in a more general form.

Manuhell.2759:

First of all, every turret is tied with a resource (displayed as a boon, so that even enemies can see it). Said resource is called Energy. If UI changes can be done…

I stopped reading right there. Turrets shouldn’t be that complicated. They are a utility skill, not a class mechanic.

Better suggestion

Who said they can’t be a bit complicated?
They’re an utility skill, right. But our class is basically focused on utilities.
It isn’t like kits are much different in that regard. If we can play while taking care of multiple cooldowns from multiple kits, then having a single value for utility to consider will be relatively better.
After all, until now, turrets have been even far too simple. Put them down, toolbelt is essentially disabled, you can use only an overcharge every now and then.
That made using multiple turrets very limiting on our part. Sure, enemies may have died, but that was mostly because of sustained pressure from autoattacks, rather than our active plays. Cause our active play consisted as most of chaning few weapon skills and some overcharges – and such a limited selection made for predictable plays.

I’m not pretending that my suggestion is perfect. But as far as them being turrets, i can’t think of anything better.

I’ve read your suggestion. Those are all but turrets. Like you said yourself in that thread, they’re more like spells/skills, phantasm-like. What’s the point, then? We’re just giving up on the whole concept of turret if we do some change like that.
Also, they end up being far too similar to gadgets in my opinion. Heh, we could just have the overcharge directly as a skill and it wouldn’t change almost anything as far as gameplay goes (it isn’t like the turret actually does something, after all, beside being eventually detonated).
You wrote about it as a better suggestion. But frankly, i can’t agree – those aren’t even turrets, after all.

Between you, me, Runeblade, and a bunch of other people, I hope Anet can at least consider some of these ideas and eventually implement a change for the better. Turrets absolutely need a rework, but I have a feeling that, if they ever get around to it, it would be long after HoT is released.

I want the “play how I want” style to be applied to turrets for all game modes, and the only way to do it is with a complete overhaul.

Manuhell.2759:

Who said they can’t be a bit complicated?
They’re an utility skill, right. But our class is basically focused on utilities.
It isn’t like kits are much different in that regard. If we can play while taking care of multiple cooldowns from multiple kits, then having a single value for utility to consider will be relatively better.
After all, until now, turrets have been even far too simple. Put them down, toolbelt is essentially disabled, you can use only an overcharge every now and then.
That made using multiple turrets very limiting on our part. Sure, enemies may have died, but that was mostly because of sustained pressure from autoattacks, rather than our active plays. Cause our active play consisted as most of chaning few weapon skills and some overcharges – and such a limited selection made for predictable plays.

I’m not pretending that my suggestion is perfect. But as far as them being turrets, i can’t think of anything better.

I’ve read your suggestion. Those are all but turrets. Like you said yourself in that thread, they’re more like spells/skills, phantasm-like. What’s the point, then? We’re just giving up on the whole concept of turret if we do some change like that.
Also, they end up being far too similar to gadgets in my opinion. Heh, we could just have the overcharge directly as a skill and it wouldn’t change almost anything as far as gameplay goes (it isn’t like the turret actually does something, after all, beside being eventually detonated).
You wrote about it as a better suggestion. But frankly, i can’t agree – those aren’t even turrets, after all.

If turrets was a class mechanic, sure. Make it more complicated. But it isn’t.

It is a utility skill.

runeblade.7514:

If turrets was a class mechanic, sure. Make it more complicated. But it isn’t.

It is a utility skill.

I can’t see the issue. Who said utilities always have to be straight and simple?
Other classes already have utilities with charges – elementalists’ summoned weapons.
This is just a sort of AI minion with charges attached, whose abilities deplete charges, whose defensive abilities depend on charges, and with charges that replenish with time. A charge based minion, basically.
On a class that hasn’t even to bother with a second weapon, at least by default, and that alone make us simpler than other classes.
So if we want to add some complexity, we’ll have to depend on utilities.
Be it kits, or other things.

Manuhell.2759:

runeblade.7514:

If turrets was a class mechanic, sure. Make it more complicated. But it isn’t.

It is a utility skill.

I can’t see the issue. Who said utilities always have to be straight and simple?
Other classes already have utilities with charges – elementalists’ summoned weapons.
This is just a sort of AI minion with charges attached, whose abilities deplete charges, whose defensive abilities depend on charges, and with charges that replenish with time. A charge based minion, basically.
On a class that hasn’t even to bother with a second weapon, at least by default, and that alone make us simpler than other classes.
So if we want to add some complexity, we’ll have to depend on utilities.
Be it kits, or other things.

You do realize that conjure weapons has no viability in PvP. Most of them aren’t even viable for PvE play. Remove Lightning hammer’s blast on auto and remove Icebow 4, and you basically remove conjure weapons. ANet also said they will do that.

If ANet added this to Turrets, it is just work to destroy turrets. It is much easier to just raise the cooldown to 900 seconds to destroy turrets completely.

What you listed is a great example of why ANet should not implement your suggestion on turrets.

And having charges is the only thing they share, anyway, since for the rest they just work in a completely different way.
Something that you would have noticed if you had read the whole suggestion.

But frankly speaking, it seems like you’re discrediting any other turret suggestion just to push yours. Since you did the same to the MiniEquine thread.
I can understand you may like yours more, but this attitude is nonetheless annoying.
I don’t like yours either, but i don’t go there with hyperbolic statements about “the total destruction of turrets”.

Manuhell.2759:

And having charges is the only thing they share, anyway, since for the rest they just work in a completely different way.
Something that you would have noticed if you had read the whole suggestion.

But frankly speaking, it seems like you’re discrediting any other turret suggestion just to push yours. Since you did the same to the MiniEquine thread.
I can understand you may like yours more, but this attitude is nonetheless annoying.
I don’t like yours either, but i don’t go there with hyperbolic statements about “the total destruction of turrets”.

The more I read it, the more I read a class mechanic suggestion, not a utility skill rework. In a turreteer profession, I want this for a class mechanic.

But it isn’t a class mechanic, it is for utility skill.

It works on a per utility basis, and only for turrets (every turret has a separate pool, it if wasn’t clear enough).
It isn’t supposed to be a class mechanic – it is just how some utilities would work.
A class mechanic would require the whole class to be based upon it. This doesn’t.
You use a turret, you’ve got to care about his energy. You use four, you care about four energy pools. And it isn’t much different from taking notes of cooldowns in that regard. Especially on a class that, with kits, can have more than 20 separate cooldowns to take care of.