Guild Wars 2

Angewaire.6319:

TheGuy.3568:

Chaba.5410:

Elixir X does not suck. I’ve seen engineers break up blobs and scatter the enemy almost entirely solo when used right, done it myself even.

QFT

However most players aren’t going to understand this. Elixir X is actually one of the best elites in the game if you use it correctly.

Really?
You reckon that funny moment in WvW when with your entire zerg You rush upon enemies, enter among them and pop up Elixir X hoping that “this time it shall be AoE tornado”…
…and instead You get a single target slow giant that is soooo easy to target, without any resistances, or extra heals.
You all that are so confident about engii being so kitten ’ good at anything do A TEST:
- go to PvP,
- pick a warrior, build it
- pick a rifle
- train with a golems
- do the same with engii + rifle
- compare damage output.
…And warrior is a HEAVY ARMOR class.

ps: someone mentioned that engii trait “incecndiary powder” is on ADEPT tier, while necro “dhuumfire” is on grandmaster…
Instead of making Yourself a completly ignorant just READ what You post- how many conditions does engii have ( except granade build) and now compare that to necro.
Answer is – necro goes slighly better while engii’s condition output is based on LUCK ( see elixirs).

Sigh…

No one runs into a zerg (note the word blob) but that is antics with semantics. In small fights it can be used as above. In a zerg you would be better off just sitting back and tossing nades so not really up for discussion.

BTW if you get juggernaut 2-> 4 -> 3 -> 5-> Spam 1. If you just want to run 3-> 3 you’ll have enough mobility to outrun most. Funny thing is most of the time I am hoping for juggernaut lol.

About your rifle comment who cares? Rifle is for CC and control. Rifle players know this. Most of you who do not use rifles and obviously do not. Our rifle pierces naturally, has limited aoe, and much better CC than warriors rifle. Your only concern is DPS thus you should play a warrior and no other classes as you will generally find yourself lacking.

“My problem with this is that the toolbelt in its current state is not anywhere near as useful as Death Shroud for necros, Adrenaline for warriors, or Virtues for guardians.”

… what did i just read?

TheGuy.3568:

About your rifle comment who cares? Rifle is for CC and control. Rifle players know this. Most of you who do not use rifles and obviously do not. Our rifle pierces naturally, has limited aoe, and much better CC than warriors rifle.

Or really?

I have 1000 play hours as an rifle engineer and 400 hours as a rifle warrior.

Tell me how engineer rifle has better CC against a skilled opponent?

Warrior’s rifle #2 has longer range (untraited) and is more guaranteed to hit than engi rifle #2. I know immobilize is more powerful than cripple, but the aimed shot cripple lasts 2.5 times longer than immobilize from net shot. The net shot projectile travels so slowly that it can realistically hit only from close range if the enemy knows the word kiting.

Warrior’s rifle #5, rifle butt, is 15 s ( 12 s traited ) cooldown cone shaped AoE 450 range push

Engi’s rifle #4, overcharged shot is 15 s (12 s traited) cooldown single target 450 range launch, which self knockbacks the engineer.

I know launch is more powerful than push, but we are now talking about self-knockdown and single target vs AoE cone push, which doesn’t have any penalty. Both have exactly same damage multiplier, but the engi skill can hit single target only.

Do a simple test: have an enemy who runs in circles around you. Even at very close range overcharged shot misses most of the time, but you can make the rifle butt hit much easier. Note: my play experience is mostly from top tier WvWvW, where the map wide lag is a serious issue, messing up timings with many skills.

So theoretically engineer rifle has a stronger single target CC, but that implies an enemy who is like sitting duck, not kiting around. If the enemy knows how to move, he doesn’t even need to use a single dodge or evade and engineer will be blasting into air.

Engi rifle #1 pierces to 1000 range, but warrior can make all its rifle + harpoon gun attacks pierce taking 20 point crack shot trait, which is really good: 20% cooldown reduction on harpoon gun + rifle, all attacks pierce, including kill shot, which has the highest damage multiplier of any single attack in this game, 1500 range. Now kill shot is actually the only warrior rifle skill which can be easily avoided due its long animation + cast, but I still find crack shot + kill shot very fun combination against mindless enemy zergs in WvWvW.

I’ll tell you how the engi rifle has better CC against skilled players

• immobalize > cripple..
  - enemies can’t dodge while immobilized
  - enemies can’t tuen, walk behind them and /laugh cause most of their skills don’t work

PS: if you also want cripple u can take sitting duck and it will equal to using the warriors #2 + #4(almost) at the same time

• Overcharged
  - launch.. too good
  - Longer range
  - cast time almost instant
  - fast projectile travel time
  - launch down players……….

using net shot at Max range or missing overcharged (not sure how that’s possible) seems to be more of a player skill issue.. js

ps: rifle 5 only outshines overcharged on PvE, other than that; it’s to telegraphed, easy to predict and awkward to use against skilled players, not to mention skilled players will laugh at a warrior for using rifle to begin with

If engineer is that good, if it lacks nothing and it’s playable class that can compete with others on equal terms , explain me this – WHY SO FEW OF US PLAYS IT!
( if anyone wants to do % math , exclude 1 engineer from each match [me])

PS: if you also want cripple u can take sitting duck and it will equal to using the warriors #2 + #4(almost) at the same time

Trait rifle? why? its bad anyway. Cripple isn’t a big deal as engineer’s can’t kite worth crap with a rifle anyway, engineer’s best kiting is easily with bombs. You want to waste skill points on a bad weapon…that’s your choice i guess.

• Overcharged
  - launch.. too good
  - Longer range
  - cast time almost instant
  - fast projectile travel time
  - launch down players……….

using net shot at Max range or missing overcharged (not sure how that’s possible) seems to be more of a player skill issue.. js

True most of the time your so close you literally can’t miss but the skill in general is sloppy and over rated. However i do get a laugh at engineer’s who think “Its awesome damage” because its not.

ps: rifle 5 only outshines overcharged on PvE, other than that; it’s to telegraphed, easy to predict and awkward to use against skilled players, not to mention skilled players will laugh at a warrior for using rifle to begin with

LOL good one, oh wait your serious…your saying top engineers use rifles? um where? every top engineer i have seen has been pistol shield or pistol/pistol. None of them used rifles. Static discharge doesn’t exist is top level play, even remotely skilled people will wreck a glass cannon like this, he has one chance at blowing the person up, if it fails. Free kill.
Only reason warrior wouldn’t choose a rifle is because Longbow is completely OP. Rifle is not a bad weapon at all.

Angewaire.6319:

If engineer is that good, if it lacks nothing and it’s playable class that can compete with others on equal terms , explain me this – WHY SO FEW OF US PLAYS IT!
( if anyone wants to do % math , exclude 1 engineer from each match [me])

I can answer that easily.

Most players don’t select their main character class based on its perceived rank within the class balance hierarchy, especially early in a game’s lifetime. Aesthetics, class mechanics and perceived role generally play a huge part, even for hardcore players.

Therefore, even if all 8 GW2 professions were perfectly balanced with each other you would not expect to see exactly 12.5% of the playerbase on each one. Hell, according to Anet’s 1-year anniversary infographic, the two most popular classes are the warrior and ranger, two classes that spent much of the game’s history being badly underpowered in certain areas of gameplay (PvP and dungeons, respectively.) On the other hand, the guardian, which has been consistently powerful in every area since the game launched, is only the 5th most popular class.

The engineer is a fairly niche class design for a fantasy RPG and will naturally attract a smaller playerbase than most others, even if it were overpowered.

ps: rifle 5 only outshines overcharged on PvE, other than that; it’s to telegraphed, easy to predict and awkward to use against skilled players, not to mention skilled players will laugh at a warrior for using rifle to begin with

= Warrior forum isn’t laughing at him. Although it has funny bits in it to be fair.

NevirSayDie.6235:

… and lower the cooldowns on gadgets.

This, many times over.

Shorter cycles on stunbreaks (Slick Shoes) and escapes (Rocket Boots) would go a long way towards making up for our average mobility.

Removing the RNG on thrown Elixir S would be nice as well, and perhaps buffing a condition removal—a buff to HT’s durability and/or Medkit 4 would help too.

We don’t need sweeping changes, but some minimal tweaks here-and-there would do a lot for our quality of life and trait diversity (which for the most part, is pretty good).

elithrar.7143:

Removing the RNG on thrown Elixir S would be nice as well

Which one do you want to be the consistent effect? I wish we had more reliable access to stability as a class but sometimes the stealth from Toss Elixir S is pretty amazing as a defensive or escape tool.

Maybe Toss Elixir S should always grant stability and the tool belt skill for Utility Goggles could be changed to “Bend Light” and grant stealth. After all, nobody gives a kitten about the current tool belt skill for the goggles. The only thing it ever gets used for is to trigger Static Discharge.

@Angewaire.6319

that’s hotjoin tho, most people tend to go with the most faceroll class/builds which atm are warriors,necro, ranger or thief

@Conan.8046
Mentioned the cripple cause the poster above me was saying that the cripple shot is better than immobalize

and its all about personal taste, personally i think pistol is a skillest weapon, just spam skills on cd, while on rifle u actually use skills when you need them, and overcharged doing 3k’s on almost no cast time and long disables is pretty strong

seem ostri, hiba, steamhawke, and even five using rifle, and myself i run a burst build at the top level lol that it isnt popular is one thing, but that it isnt viable is a completely different thing

and even before long bow, warriors never used rifle for the simple fact that killshot and volley are the only good skills, but killshot is too telegraphed

Stice.5204:

Maybe Toss Elixir S should always grant stability and the tool belt skill for Utility Goggles could be changed to “Bend Light” and grant stealth. After all, nobody gives a kitten about the current tool belt skill for the goggles. The only thing it ever gets used for is to trigger Static Discharge.

That’d do it for me. I will admit that both skills are nice on thrown Elixir S, but sometimes I really want the invuln to be 100%.

Stice.5204:

I can answer that easily.

Most players don’t select their main character class based on its perceived rank within the class balance hierarchy, especially early in a game’s lifetime. Aesthetics, class mechanics and perceived role generally play a huge part, even for hardcore players.

…

The engineer is a fairly niche class design for a fantasy RPG and will naturally attract a smaller playerbase than most others, even if it were overpowered.

Nailed it.

(this is also why Rangers are so popular; it’s a favorite archetype of many fantasy fans)

Engineers are not bad, in fact that are quite overpowered…in the right hands.

Three kit condition engineers can win any fight 1v1 in wvw/spvp and even come out on top in 1v2’s or 1v3’s. Ostrich Eggs, Kishi, Koroshi and Teldo have proven this. But therein lies the rub, three kits. That’s 20 different weapon skills, while also juggling their tool belt abilities.

How do you apply buffs to a class like this without completely breaking balance in the process ? The only way would be to make kits incredibly weak and buff our gadgets/main hand weapons/elixirs/turrets. But how many players would be happy with that change?

I am absolutely convinced that there are two schools of thought across the engineer player-base. One-kit or lower engineers who feel we are sub-par as they rely entirely on their main hand weapons, and 2 to 3 kit engineers who feel we are absolutely amazing on every level as they can effectively juggle the NUMEROUS conditions/crowd controls/blocks/condition removals…the list goes on.

Elementalists suffer from the same fate. Those who can’t attunement swap at a reasonable rate of effectiveness eventually reroll.

There are six other professions that use a weapon swap mechanic and have a max of 10 weapon skills. The mesmer could probably be seen as the most complex out of those six. Your only true option is to play one of those if you find the engineer to be weak, as right now, the engineer is in an impossible state to buff in any way shape or form without completely nerfing kits in the process.

Man i had to laugh at this post!

Engineer is actually in a really good place right now. The only changes i would make would be cosmetic (hobo sacks)

Engineers have a high skill cap but once mastered they are godmode PvP and they can keep up with the top dogs of DPS in PvE.

I have an Engineer, Necromancer, Guardian & Warrior and I have to say i feel like my Engineer is tied with my Guardian in terms of PvP.

Phineas Poe.3018:

It’s really not, though.

Pretty much every Warrior runs some kind of variant of the Axe/Mace rotation. Some mix in the Greatsword as their secondary set.

This statement is incredibly misinformed.
What about Sword/Sword – Longbow condi builds?
What about Sword/Mace – Mace/Shield stun builds?
What about Hammer – Mace/Shield melee stun train?
What about Rifle Snipers?

There are so many warrior builds out there right now, and I see plenty of variations while roaming in wvw every day.

I can count on my hand though how many engineers I’ve seen with dual pistol or rifle, most of them are running multi-kit – pistol/shield. Last time I saw an engineer with static discharge was three months ago.

tattoohead.3217:

Man i had to laugh at this post!

Which post were you laughing at? If it was mine that would make no sense, as my first sentence basically discusses everything you just said.

Imho, the class is too centered on kits. Problem is, kits aren’t even the main mechanic of the class, and the class shouldn’t be balanced about using them or being condemned to subparness.
If we are so based upon them, then they should scrap the toolbelt and make kits the primary mechanic (the tool line could add a “kit slot” on F buttons per every 10 points, and maybe also give small buffs per point spent). Or rebalance the whole class so that kits aren’t a forced choice.

tattoohead.3217:

Man i had to laugh at this post!

Engineer is actually in a really good place right now. The only changes i would make would be cosmetic (hobo sacks)

Engineers have a high skill cap but once mastered they are godmode PvP and they can keep up with the top dogs of DPS in PvE.

I have an Engineer, Necromancer, Guardian & Warrior and I have to say i feel like my Engineer is tied with my Guardian in terms of PvP.

Man i had to laugh at this post

Watch this
I have a Ranger, Thief, and Warrior and i have to say engineer is lowest skill cap of them all.

Making claims is awesome huh? Although i loved how arrogant you went about it, just like how the engineer who got to PAx changed to warrior. He did that to counter spirit ranger….your telling me he switched to a warrior because it has better AOE damage to deal with spirits?

Paper is too strong rock needs buff
-Rock

tPvP is a bit different… And I obviously didn’t go to pax so w/e.

The main point is stop the QQ fest we have all herd it. Engineer is a strong class overall you can’t expect it to be the best class just becaus that’s what you want.

The “issues” with the class that have been outlined are rather minor and everyone wants to make it a big deal. Lets face it your not going to pax… The issues those players have with engineer don’t even effect someone at your level. Or mine.

tattoohead.3217:

Paper is too strong rock needs buff
-Rock

tPvP is a bit different… And I obviously didn’t go to pax so w/e.

The main point is stop the QQ fest we have all herd it. Engineer is a strong class overall you can’t expect it to be the best class just becaus that’s what you want.

The “issues” with the class that have been outlined are rather minor and everyone wants to make it a big deal. Lets face it your not going to pax… The issues those players have with engineer don’t even effect someone at your level. Or mine.

/facepalm
Totally missed the point.

hmm, ok explain.

op , put 30 into the last trait line , use static discharge and roll zerkers. Tool belt is very useful if you know how to use it.

please explain lol you’re talking about PaX so i asume its PvP! so please explain how engineers have lower skill cap than warriors, thief and RANGERS! lmfao

tattoohead.3217:

hmm, ok explain.

Perhaps you don’t do much pvp? Anyone who does knows that the way to beat a spirit ranger is to AOE down his spirits. That’s how you kill the effectiveness of a Spirit Ranger.

So why did a guy who played Engineer the whole time before suddenly switch to a warrior?

The meta has shifted. Engineers are no longer great as they were even in the best hands.

I was trying to explain engineer to an elementalist. I said the kit engineer is like a backwards elementalist. Instead of switching the weapon skills with attunements on your mechanics keys and having utility in your utility slots, you switch weapon skills using your utility slots and have some extra utility on your mechanics keys.

And that is why kits are difficult to get away from using. Imagine trying to play an elementalist that couldn’t switch attunements.

Conan.8046:

tattoohead.3217:

hmm, ok explain.

Perhaps you don’t do much pvp? Anyone who does knows that the way to beat a spirit ranger is to AOE down his spirits. That’s how you kill the effectiveness of a Spirit Ranger.

So why did a guy who played Engineer the whole time before suddenly switch to a warrior?

The meta has shifted. Engineers are no longer great as they were even in the best hands.

its not the AoE……… Rangers only have 1 stun break which comes from a trait… stun lock kills spirit rangers, also counters necros, and its not as risky to fight thiefs lol warrior was just a counter to SYNC’s comp..

its not the AoE……… Rangers only have 1 stun break which comes from a trait… stun lock kills spirit rangers, also counters necros, and its not as risky to fight thiefs lol warrior was just a counter to their comp..

Sure that stun lock with a longbow and greatsword must have been what it was. Explain this to me.
Its actually kinda funny because Super explained it after the match.

Conan.8046:

its not the AoE……… Rangers only have 1 stun break which comes from a trait… stun lock kills spirit rangers, also counters necros, and its not as risky to fight thiefs lol warrior was just a counter to their comp..

Sure that stun lock with a longbow and greatsword must have been what it was. Explain this to me.
Its actually kinda funny because Super explained it after the match.

he was using hammer/LB =/

google.3709:

Conan.8046:

its not the AoE……… Rangers only have 1 stun break which comes from a trait… stun lock kills spirit rangers, also counters necros, and its not as risky to fight thiefs lol warrior was just a counter to their comp..

Sure that stun lock with a longbow and greatsword must have been what it was. Explain this to me.
Its actually kinda funny because Super explained it after the match.

he was using hammer/LB =/

Ah yeah he was it was a candy cane. Not that it matters, he explained after the final that the warrior longbow one shots all the spirits.

Conan.8046:

tattoohead.3217:

hmm, ok explain.

Perhaps you don’t do much pvp? Anyone who does knows that the way to beat a spirit ranger is to AOE down his spirits. That’s how you kill the effectiveness of a Spirit Ranger.

So why did a guy who played Engineer the whole time before suddenly switch to a warrior?

The meta has shifted. Engineers are no longer great as they were even in the best hands.

Um… so… war is better at killing spirit ranger, and that makes Engineers bad…

Yeah i was the one who missed the point there… Any way the reason for the change was a probably a team decision based on a comp they were facing… not just to AoE down spirits for one class.

nah spirits have a decent health pool, he can wear them down with Combustive Shot and arcin arrow but not quiet one shot them.

as a warrior he would just have a much easier time dealing with spirit rangers, necros, thief on 1v1 that he would have on an engi, but just because warrior counters meta doesnt mean engineers arent viable. js

google.3709:

nah spirits have a decent health pool, he can wear them down with Combustive Shot and arcin arrow but not quiet one shot them.

as a warrior he would just have a much easier time dealing with spirit rangers, necros, thief on 1v1 that he would have on an engi, but just because warrior counters meta doesnt mean engineers arent viable. js

Nobody ever said unviable. The point i was making was that given 2 players of the same skill level the engineer will lose 9/10.

google.3709:

I’ll tell you how the engi rifle has better CC against skilled players

• immobalize > cripple..
  - enemies can’t dodge while immobilized
  - enemies can’t tuen, walk behind them and /laugh cause most of their skills don’t work

PS: if you also want cripple u can take sitting duck and it will equal to using the warriors #2 + #4(almost) at the same time

• Overcharged
  - launch.. too good
  - Longer range
  - cast time almost instant
  - fast projectile travel time
  - launch down players……….

using net shot at Max range or missing overcharged (not sure how that’s possible) seems to be more of a player skill issue.. js

ps: rifle 5 only outshines overcharged on PvE, other than that; it’s to telegraphed, easy to predict and awkward to use against skilled players, not to mention skilled players will laugh at a warrior for using rifle to begin with

Well, after playing with both Warriors and Engineer a lot. I must say, the leveling part with my Engineer was something I realy liked. I was using a Rifle and mixing it up with my flame turret smokescreen to stealth jump shot away while the ennemy blindly tried to hit my flame turret until I came out of stealth.

But sinds I ran with Turrets mostly I went for a Pistol&Shield build to get greater benefits out of my condi turrets. You can realy get some great burning area of denial with both Flame Turret and Rocket Turret. I used to run with Runes of the Undead, but with Perplexity I found some real good usage to my shield.

On the other hand, Warrior Rifle is very bursty if you play berserker. But if you do so you end up beeing a 2 trick pony and left with a very bad dps when your skills are on CD. I found an alternative build with Rampager Gear that focused on bleeds. My kill shot and volley took a big hit (compensated by the bleeds), but my overall dps with the mix of raw damage, bleeds and confusion gave the versatility and level of pressure my weapon desperatly needed.

But should I choose between the two profession wielding Rifles, I would keep myself to the Engineer one.

Conan.8046:

google.3709:

nah spirits have a decent health pool, he can wear them down with Combustive Shot and arcin arrow but not quiet one shot them.

as a warrior he would just have a much easier time dealing with spirit rangers, necros, thief on 1v1 that he would have on an engi, but just because warrior counters meta doesnt mean engineers arent viable. js

Nobody ever said unviable. The point i was making was that given 2 players of the same skill level the engineer will lose 9/10.

yeah… not true.

That statement is true with a given build but Engineer’s power lies in the fact that we can build to deal with certain meta comps. For instance if im fighting a necro i can trait so that i have the advantage. same can be said for war. and thf has always been a joke to a good Engi

I dont face too many spirit rangers so i may lack experiences there but even if that was the paper to my rock its still just one build of one class.

and before you say we shouldn’t need to switch traits often to be viable… i dont

Angewaire.6319:

If engineer is that good, if it lacks nothing and it’s playable class that can compete with others on equal terms , explain me this – WHY SO FEW OF US PLAYS IT!
( if anyone wants to do % math , exclude 1 engineer from each match [me])

Why did people complain that Eles sucked during launch and then 5 months later complain that they are OP?
Why did people complain that Rangers sucked at launch but few months later everyone’s complaining about BM and Spirits and passive condi removal?

I’ll tell you why, because they didn’t know how to spec or play the class and that’s the same situation here.

I personally did not like the Engineer initially. I never played them, I never touched them, I never even looked at them until I joined a guild that told me I needed to play the Engie so I did. Fast foward a few months later after practicing with it and getting acquainted with the skills and traits, I started to find what the possibilities were with the class and it just blew up from there.

Another thing is, people will always play the simplest classes. Engie is far from the simplest class.

Conan.8046:

Nobody ever said unviable. The point i was making was that given 2 players of the same skill level the engineer will lose 9/10.

All those 1v1 tournaments and streaming Engineers seem to provide evidence to the contrary.

VIVorcha.7853:

I find it appalling that you can’t realize the difference between “high-skill, high-reward” gameplay and “high-difficulty, moderate reward”.

Compared to other classes, Engineers have a disadvantage. Half of our skills are bad. We can’t weapon switch. We have no synergy in 4 out of 5 of our trait bars. Our class has absolutely no synergy with its mechanic.

Not being able to “weapon switch” isn’t a disadvantage in and of itself, given that we have kits. You could say that other classes “don’t have kits”, and it would mean the same thing (i.e. it means nothing).

You can drop the word “synergy” as many times as you like, but without actual evidence it doesn’t strengthen your point.

Engineers have a number of different, viable builds. Some builds (turrets, for example) would be stronger/more viable with some bug fixes and tweaks.

Every time someone exclaims that Engineers are useless/the bottom of the pile/terrible, they dilute any constructive arguments for useful fixes.

Eles cannot swap weapons either. They have attunements, we have kits. This is why it is not easy to play engineer without kits.

Conan.8046:

You speak of broad strokes…you just did exactly what you criticised VIVorcha for. There are a huge amount of good builds for warrior and they are nothing like what you described.

Such as?

Decklan.7540:

Phineas Poe.3018:

It’s really not, though.

Pretty much every Warrior runs some kind of variant of the Axe/Mace rotation. Some mix in the Greatsword as their secondary set.

This statement is incredibly misinformed.
What about Sword/Sword – Longbow condi builds?
What about Sword/Mace – Mace/Shield stun builds?
What about Hammer – Mace/Shield melee stun train?
What about Rifle Snipers?

There are so many warrior builds out there right now, and I see plenty of variations while roaming in wvw every day.

I can count on my hand though how many engineers I’ve seen with dual pistol or rifle, most of them are running multi-kit – pistol/shield. Last time I saw an engineer with static discharge was three months ago.

I guess I should have added that I was talking about PvE.

Conan.8046:

ps: rifle 5 only outshines overcharged on PvE, other than that; it’s to telegraphed, easy to predict and awkward to use against skilled players, not to mention skilled players will laugh at a warrior for using rifle to begin with

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5FiSGEhyxM

= Warrior forum isn’t laughing at him. Although it has funny bits in it to be fair.

Wow. Thats amazing damage. Looks like fun too.

@Conan.8046
That’s simply not true dude, no idea where you’re getting your facts from but stop =\

VIVorcha.7853:

I find it appalling that you can’t realize the difference between “high-skill, high-reward” gameplay and “high-difficulty, moderate reward”.

Compared to other classes, Engineers have a disadvantage. Half of our skills are bad. We can’t weapon switch. We have no synergy in 4 out of 5 of our trait bars. Our class has absolutely no synergy with its mechanic.

it all comes down to personal taste, engineers are not as faceroll as other classes but that allows us to have a much higher skill cap and rewarding playstyle which (at least on PvP) allows you to pull off some much “ridiculous” stuff and clutch plays no other class could.

and we prob have the best class mechanic which allows for soo much flexibility/counters and 1 utility skill can play completely change the playstyle of an entire build.

Such as?

Look back at what VIVorcha said about engineers….then you said about warriors. You did exactly the same thing.

I find it appalling that you can’t realize the difference between “high-skill, high-reward” gameplay and “high-difficulty, moderate reward”.

Expect this sort of thing. Some people don’t keep up with the times very well. They can’t understand the changes not only to our own class but other classes as well have a huge impact on how things play out.

VIVorcha.7853:

I find it appalling that you can’t realize the difference between “high-skill, high-reward” gameplay and “high-difficulty, moderate reward”.

Compared to other classes, Engineers have a disadvantage. Half of our skills are bad. We can’t weapon switch. We have no synergy in 4 out of 5 of our trait bars. Our class has absolutely no synergy with its mechanic.

Show us the builds you consider high skill with moderate rewards.

There’s actually plenty of synergy between Toolbelt skills and utilities.

Tool Kit 5 + Minefield + Rifle 5 = Explosive (Swap Minefield for Big Ol Bomb, same thing)
Regenerating Mist + Blast finisher
Net turret Toolbelt Immob + Grenade Barrage
Thumper turret toolbelt + Overcharged shot = no self CC
Super Speed + Box of Nails = Leaving the competition behind.
Throw Napalm + Airblast = 7 second burn on everyone
Throw Wrench (or Rifle turret toolbelt) + Light field (EG 5 or Elixir R toolbelt) = Definite condi removal for allies in front of you.

There’s definitely some I didn’t mention but there you go.

XelNigma.6315:

digiowl.9620:

All in all ,for a game built with mobility as a focus the engineer is painfully static.

Games that have a class that focus on turrets make that class to be static.
Lets look at other games. TF2 is well known, This game is very mobile, you have people running and jumping and even rocket jumping all over the place. But then you have the engineer class, designed not to do any of that stuff, cant move quick, cant jump high. His role is to control an area and make it his. Often known as “Area denial”.

Lets look at another game, Global Agenda. This game is even more mobile than TF2 seeing as every one has jetpacks. Like before you have a class thats designed to set in 1 spot and control an area with turrets and buff stations.

All well and good for SPVP, and to some degree WVW, but basically a waste of utility slots in PVE.

I wonder if they could have done turrets more like mesmer mantras. When you hit the skill, you construct a collapsed turret that show up as a “boon”. Then you can hit the skill again to deploy said turret. Now if you pick said turret up again, it return to its “boon” form, and the deploy skill becomes available. Blow it up or have it destroyed, and the recharge on the build skill happens.

Question is what to do with the toolbelt skills. One option would be that any time you are carrying a turret, or have one deployed, you have the explosion skill. If deployed it detonates there, and if carried it detonates around you.

Conan.8046:

Such as?

Look back at what VIVorcha said about engineers….then you said about warriors. You did exactly the same thing.

How so? The majority of Warriors do use Axe/Mace variants in PvE. The guide to using it has 83,000 views on GW2Guru, and it’s the highest rated PvE build with 12,000 views on IntoTheMists.

Show me one build that is even remotely as popular as the Axe/Mace + GS setup, and I’ll concede that you’re correct in saying that Warriors have just as many popular and different builds that Engineers do.

Deniara Devious.3948:

TheGuy.3568:

About your rifle comment who cares? Rifle is for CC and control. Rifle players know this. Most of you who do not use rifles and obviously do not. Our rifle pierces naturally, has limited aoe, and much better CC than warriors rifle.

Or really?

I have 1000 play hours as an rifle engineer and 400 hours as a rifle warrior.

Tell me how engineer rifle has better CC against a skilled opponent?

I know immobilize is more powerful than cripple

I know launch is more powerful than push

That was what your post boil down to. If you have 1k hours ( I have 336 btw) as a rifle engineer and have issues controlling a fight than there is something you need examine in your playstyle and timing. I am not going to tell you how to play your class but if your skills are not landing do not assume it is the same for everyone else. The CC skills are there. The self cc on OS is actually not bad is really useful. Not going into all this but tossing around hour played does not equal skill and understanding.

VIVorcha.7853:

Okay, I just saw your edit, and that really confused me. Are you trying to say that the Engineer in its current state is not in need of any changes? That the uselessness of Gadgets and Turrets is perfectly fine? And the fact that we only have one good elite (Supply Crate)?

You can also say that we have lots of “intuitive builds”, but they all boil down to one of three things:

HGH
Static Discharge
Grenades

It might be better if they fixed all the bugs, such as turret scaling, but until then, the class is seriously in need of help.

This is what I’m seeing as well.

They made some minor bug fixes which makes it a bit more bearable but it’s far from being on par with what it was in PVE in headstart and it’s far from being useful.

There’s a ton of things wrong with the class that are simple design flaws that need to be addressed. I told them to hire someone from the military a weapons/explosives expert to give them pointers on just how destructive these weapons actually should be because they aren’t anywhere near that now! Haven’t been since they made nerfs way back last year long before the first grenade nerf!

pets are another story entirely, they are so weak and stupid they actually run off by themselves to aggro and attack everything in site even on passive and turrets are the weakest things around. How are we supposed to believe that my engineer doesn’t understand how to put wheels on the bottom of the turrets so they can follow me? Seriously? Especially as a Charr or an Asura!?

Doesn’t make any sense.

VIVorcha.7853:

I find it appalling that you can’t realize the difference between “high-skill, high-reward” gameplay and “high-difficulty, moderate reward”.

Compared to other classes, Engineers have a disadvantage. Half of our skills are bad. We can’t weapon switch. We have no synergy in 4 out of 5 of our trait bars. Our class has absolutely no synergy with its mechanic.

Kinds sounds like you just need to L2P.

Engineers have one of the highest skill caps… yes. But they also have some of the best “synergy” in the game. IMO Engineer has some of the most creative builds out there (stuff like using turrets to explode water fields for crazy healing that’s on par with ele)

And yeah… your point is invalid, you gotta stop saying “we” and just roll another class cuz your not getting it man. (best advice anyone has given you)

That was what your post boil down to. If you have 1k hours ( I have 336 btw) as a rifle engineer and have issues controlling a fight than there is something you need examine in your playstyle and timing. I am not going to tell you how to play your class but if your skills are not landing do not assume it is the same for everyone else. The CC skills are there. The self cc on OS is actually not bad is really useful. Not going into all this but tossing around hour played does not equal skill and understanding.

Funny engineers always come back to the same thing. Rifle is for control well lets just challege that for a second
Engineer Rifle
1 – Damage
2- Control
3 – Damage
4 – Damage and control
5 – Damage

Ranger Longbow
1 – Damage
2 – Damage
3 – Damage + Stealth
4 – Damage and control
5 – Damage and control.

Mesmer Great Sword
1- Damage
2- Damage
3- Damage
4 – Damage + Control
5 – Damage + Control

Warrior Longbow
1 – Damage
2 – Damage
3 – Damage
4 – Damage (with a blind that considered control?)
5 – Damage + Control (best of all the controls mentioned by a mile)

Guardian – Septre
1 – Damage
2 – Damage
3 – Control
4- Offhand
5- Offhand

Thief – Shortbow
1 – Damage
2 – Damage
3 – Evade and control
4 – Damage
5 – Evade/Escape + Blind (control?)

Seems to me 2 controls is just standard.

lol dude.. you’re on try hard mode and totally misunderstanding what is meant by control..

look at the weapons you posted and tell us which weapon has something better than an immobalize on a 10s(8s traited) and a knock-back/launch on a 15s(12s cd is traited) lol

btw if cripple is gonan put on the same category as immobalize and launch, then you should look to warrior sword, it has a cripple on auto attack and another cripple on #2, spammable cripple OP