Guild Wars 2

Colin did mention adding new weapons so hopefully that will help with the diversity.

google.3709:

lol dude.. you’re on try hard mode and totally misunderstanding what is meant by control..

look at the weapons you posted and tell us which weapon has something better than an immobalize on a 10s(8s traited) and a knock-back/launch on a 15s(12s cd is traited) lol

btw if cripple is gonan put on the same category as immobalize and launch, then you should look to warrior sword, it has a cripple on auto attack and another cripple on #2, spammable cripple OP

So Ranger auto attack with sword doesn’t immobilize?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sword

Melee weapons are different to ranged. Cripple is huge on a ranged weapon for obvious reasons.

NevirSayDie.6235:

So the profession that’s the hardest to play should be OP?

Compare to Mesmer, another high-to-very-high skill ceiling profession, yet at the higher levels, they can pay off in DPS, Conditions and/or amazing utility, depending on what you need.

We need a bit more pay-off at the higher end, or at least bring up some of the crappier skills (gadgets/turrets) to give us some more options. And as for the potential for passives on the gadgets, it would be nice if we had some more buffs that couldn’t be removed or used against us. We can’t weapon swap, so a passive, no-kit build is ALREADY one skill down from any weapon swapping profession, not counting their professional mechanics.

Maybe reactive gadgets would be the way to go, with a counter-play build into them for certain circumstances.

look at the weapons you posted and tell us which weapon has something better than an immobalize on a 10s(8s traited) and a knock-back/launch on a 15s(12s cd is traited) lol

There it is! Bingo! fireworks

What is meant by “Rifle is for control” is you have net shot. Which by the way is useless at anything but short range.

So net shot is the trade off for worthless damage? Its not worth it. Inc the static discharge crutch.

Funnily I get the imprint of a bad player if I have trouble landing engi rifle #4. I wrote that I play mostly WvWvW in top tier. I do solo roaming most of the time, even during busy prime time with my engineer. This evening busy prime time I was trying to solo cap Gandara Garrison (got all the guards + some siege down, then they spotted me and I had to flee). The lag has sometimes today been so bad that no skills work or they fire 3 seconds later. Try to time your overcharged shot there.

Landing warrior rifle #5 is a bit easier as it cleaves in a cone shape, despite it has shorter range. And despite somebody claimed in thread warrior rifle is not useless at all. E.g. you can often see several enemy players trying to revive a downed ally. Warrior rifle #5 knocks of them all away unless they have stability on. Having a cleaving interrupt at 12 second cooldown (warrior rifle #5) is not useless, but of course warrior hammer is even better CC weapon. In fact I would claim that warrior hammer is the superior CC weapon for large scale battles.

Net shot is pretty bad considering: it is single target, does no damage at all and it is easy to kite from distance. If the projectile speed was a bit faster, it would be okay.

Some people on this thread comment like engi rifle is some god mode super control weapon, better than the rest. Then why: 90% of the engineers I see in WvWvW are using pistol/shield or pistol/pistol instead? Why almost all the top tpvp players in tournament video streams also use the above mentioned weapons instead of the rifle?

Helcor.9527:

Conan.8046:

ps: rifle 5 only outshines overcharged on PvE, other than that; it’s to telegraphed, easy to predict and awkward to use against skilled players, not to mention skilled players will laugh at a warrior for using rifle to begin with

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5FiSGEhyxM

= Warrior forum isn’t laughing at him. Although it has funny bits in it to be fair.

Wow. Thats amazing damage. Looks like fun too.

SPECIALLY IN 2:55 and for that engineer up there on the hill, must have really nice view about how warrior devastates his company and that he can actually do a sh* to that warr.
BTW: O! How stupid i was to roll my first character as a engineer!
Nice vid!

You should probably try an argument other than “you’re the only one who holds that position”, because that’s clearly not true.

I would understand disagreeing on some of my points, but saying “NO L2P ENGI IS PERFECT RITE NAO” is just being ignorant and disregarding blatant issues.

VIVorcha.7853:

You should probably try an argument other than “you’re the only one who holds that position”, because that’s clearly not true.

I would understand disagreeing on some of my points, but saying “NO L2P ENGI IS PERFECT RITE NAO” is just being ignorant and disregarding blatant issues.

A few people have echoed your sentiments but the angle you’re coming from is a wrong one. Saying that we don’t have lot of builds is very different from saying we have to work hard to make those builds work extremely well for us. If your argument was just that it’s really hard to get the best out of the Engie, I would have very little argument with you but when you say we don’t have a lot of builds? I’ve got to laugh at that one.

Conan.8046:

google.3709:

lol dude.. you’re on try hard mode and totally misunderstanding what is meant by control..

look at the weapons you posted and tell us which weapon has something better than an immobalize on a 10s(8s traited) and a knock-back/launch on a 15s(12s cd is traited) lol

btw if cripple is gonan put on the same category as immobalize and launch, then you should look to warrior sword, it has a cripple on auto attack and another cripple on #2, spammable cripple OP

So Ranger auto attack with sword doesn’t immobilize?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sword

Melee weapons are different to ranged. Cripple is huge on a ranged weapon for obvious reasons.

huh? who said anything about ranger’s sword immobalizing :p? lol

and worthless damage ? dude, its one thing that you dislike the weapon because you dont know how to use it, but you shouldn’t come out advertising false facts

Rifle is a different type of weapon where other than auto attack, you can’t spam skills mindlessly making it more complex to use and thats probably where your dislike comes from. a simple lack of understanding of the weapon which is prob due to trying it on PvE where they wont try to run away from AoE and positioning of the mobs don’t matter.

huh? who said anything about ranger’s sword immobalizing :p? lol

and worthless damage ? dude, its one thing that you dislike the weapon because you dont know how to use it, but you shouldn’t come out advertising false facts

Rifle is a different type of weapon where other than auto attack, you can’t spam skills mindlessly making it more complex to use and thats probably where your dislike comes from. a simple lack of understanding of the weapon which is prob due to trying it on PvE where they wont try to run away from AoE and positioning of the mobs don’t matter.

Amazing how some folks fail to see the obvious, there’s no point even responding. Everything said is relative which means its true compared to other things in the game.

btw if cripple is gonan put on the same category as immobalize and launch, then you should look to warrior sword, it has a cripple on auto attack and another cripple on #2, spammable cripple OP

huh? who said anything about ranger’s sword immobalizing :p? lol

Can’t see a connection? Really?
I like how you make out rooting is more of a CC than a knockback. Rooting is not a true CC and neither is snaring.

VIVorcha.7853:

You should probably try an argument other than “you’re the only one who holds that position”, because that’s clearly not true.

I would understand disagreeing on some of my points, but saying “NO L2P ENGI IS PERFECT RITE NAO” is just being ignorant and disregarding blatant issues.

At this point its a moot argument… but for the record i don’t think Engineer is perfect (no class is perfect) we have some bugs i would love to see fixed. However we are no ware near the bottom. There are plenty of successful Engineers in sPvP, WvW, & PvE myself included. And we have a number of builds we can use in each scenario

~Pow/crit SD
~Pow/crit Grenades/Bombs
~Condition p/p HGH
~Condition Grenades
~Support EG/HT
~Support Turrets/Water fields

Those are just some of the cookie cutter builds that are popular atm there are some i left out and other more creative builds that have been tailored to specific situations. When you say “Engineers Suck” you better be prepared for backlash because your statement is wrong.

OFC you will get people too see your point of view and QQ about there class but most people who honestly believe Engineer’s are weak just suck at there class… so to that ill say it again L2P… better yet L2P War (you will still be bad you will just be better at it)

Conan.8046:

huh? who said anything about ranger’s sword immobalizing :p? lol

and worthless damage ? dude, its one thing that you dislike the weapon because you dont know how to use it, but you shouldn’t come out advertising false facts

Rifle is a different type of weapon where other than auto attack, you can’t spam skills mindlessly making it more complex to use and thats probably where your dislike comes from. a simple lack of understanding of the weapon which is prob due to trying it on PvE where they wont try to run away from AoE and positioning of the mobs don’t matter.

Amazing how some folks fail to see the obvious, there’s no point even responding. Everything said is relative which means its true compared to other things in the game.

btw if cripple is gonan put on the same category as immobalize and launch, then you should look to warrior sword, it has a cripple on auto attack and another cripple on #2, spammable cripple OP

huh? who said anything about ranger’s sword immobalizing :p? lol

Can’t see a connection? Really?
I like how you make out rooting is more of a CC than a knockback. Rooting is not a true CC and neither is snaring.

lol dude, still on try hard mode, you’re the one who listed cripple as a “Control” on ur weapon comparison thing, i’m just following the same format cause you been jumping all over the place :p

lol dude, still on try hard mode, you’re the one who listed cripple as a “Control” on ur weapon comparison thing, i’m just following the same format cause you been jumping all over the place :p

Difficult to discuss anything with people who fail on the most basics concepts such as control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_control_

Okay, I admit I was wrong that we don’t have many builds. I’ve never really explored those options because I despise kit-switching and elixirs. I rolled Engineer for three things:

1. Guns
2. Turrets
3. Gadgets

But it’s virtually impossible to make a build that uses Gadgets and regular weapons, because they have a huge cooldown, give mediocre effects (mostly), and Speedy Gadgets doesn’t affect toolbelts, which seems like a bug.

I’ve also tried making a turret build, and the result was “Place Turrets>Turrets Die>Get Downed”

Turrets should be formidable, static opponents. If I have a setup of three turrets, I should be putting out a lot of DPS on that alone. In PVP and WVW, enemies should be forced to focus on turrets to destroy them, rather than casually dropping AOE. My turret nest should be my domain, with a fully traited one offering insane DPS that can tear apart individual enemies.

Think TF2 engi, slightly less so.

AND THE DOWNED SKILLS.

I cannot emphasize enough how much these need improvement. Elementalists got a full revamp shortly after the release of the game, and we need one as well.

Completely agree on both counts Vi especially the downed skills there are tons of ways they could have improved these for us. Throwing explosives for one, cloaking device to hide us, explosion that actually does as much damage as the assassin thing the mesmers do. Tons…they just don’t give a care.

There’s also problems with the damage ratios levels 50-80 that become obvious to anyone who’s played other classes including warrior where you noticeably become nerfed compared to these other classes and it then takes much longer to kill anything no matter what kit you’re wearing or what your gear is it’s obvious.

The pet thing, don’t even get me started, they want me to believe that my engineer doesn’t have enough knowledge as a Charr or even if I were playing an Asura to allow my turrets to be mobile and follow me around?! Really? or that they can’t be smart enough to move out of an AOE zone? smh.

And Condition damage output is a big part of our problem we’re one of the classes that need to have a buff on that big time, we were nerfed along with all of the other classes when they nerfed condition damage globally before they made the change to separate the nerfs/buffs for PVP balance from PVE months ago, we’ve never recovered since.

I’ve watched the numbers closely and I think we could benefit from giving the condition damage a boost by allowing condis the change to crit. Other games had that same problem and when they allowed their DoTs to crit it changed everything for those builds.

I’ve listed these things and the problems with our traits, and the problems with our base damage in PVE already they just have to read them and implement them. It’s not that hard.

Conan.8046:

That was what your post boil down to. If you have 1k hours ( I have 336 btw) as a rifle engineer and have issues controlling a fight than there is something you need examine in your playstyle and timing. I am not going to tell you how to play your class but if your skills are not landing do not assume it is the same for everyone else. The CC skills are there. The self cc on OS is actually not bad is really useful. Not going into all this but tossing around hour played does not equal skill and understanding.

Funny engineers always come back to the same thing. Rifle is for control well lets just challege that for a second
Engineer Rifle
1 – Damage
2- Control (immobalize)
3 – Damage
4 – Damage and control
5 – Damage

Ranger Longbow
1 – Damage
2 – Damage
3 – Damage + Stealth
4 – Damage and control
5 – Damage and control. (Cripple)

Mesmer Great Sword
1- Damage
2- Damage
3- Damage
4 – Damage + Control (Cripple)
5 – Damage + Control

Warrior Longbow
1 – Damage
2 – Damage
3 – Damage
4 – Damage (with a blind that considered control?)
5 – Damage + Control (best of all the controls mentioned by a mile) (Cripple)

Guardian – Septre
1 – Damage
2 – Damage
3 – Control (immobalize)
4- Offhand
5- Offhand

Thief – Shortbow
1 – Damage
2 – Damage
3 – Evade and control (Cripple)
4 – Damage
5 – Evade/Escape + Blind (control?)

Seems to me 2 controls is just standard.

lol i know what CC is but again, i was just following ur format so u wouldnt be confused, mistake on my part i guess tho >:[

Also, think about PVE content: Is there a single role that an Engineer can fill that another class can’t fill better?

The answer: no.

VIVorcha.7853:

Okay, I admit I was wrong that we don’t have many builds. I’ve never really explored those options because I despise kit-switching and elixirs. I rolled Engineer for three things:

1. Guns
2. Turrets
3. Gadgets

But it’s virtually impossible to make a build that uses Gadgets and regular weapons, because they have a huge cooldown, give mediocre effects (mostly), and Speedy Gadgets doesn’t affect toolbelts, which seems like a bug.

Most Static Discharge builds revolve around using gadgets. Have you not tried it?

VIVorcha.7853:

Turrets should be formidable, static opponents. If I have a setup of three turrets, I should be putting out a lot of DPS on that alone. In PVP and WVW, enemies should be forced to focus on turrets to destroy them, rather than casually dropping AOE. My turret nest should be my domain, with a fully traited one offering insane DPS that can tear apart individual enemies.

No one will argue against you that turrets right now are incredibly weak. The Rifle Turret is best used in Static Discharge for its toolbelt skill. The Net Turret hardly immobilizes any better than the Rifle can with Net Shot. The Thumper Turret dies in seconds to any reasonable attack. And the Flame and Rocket Turrets don’t do enough DPS to warrant using it over other utility slots.

The Healing Turret is really the only good one that we have that stands on its own merits and can be used effectively without traits.

Engineer is powerful, its my main since BWE1. But some things there just drive me nuts.
I got 5 80s by now and experience with the most of them in WvW what i play most of the time. The only thing i really miss and the most urgent thing that kills me 99% of the time is the lack of stability. Playing bombs without is …. Elixir S is garbage.

that bombradius trait sucks, its just there to be annoying, without that trait you just cant use bombs, you just cant they are garbage without.

VIVorcha.7853:

Also, think about PVE content: Is there a single role that an Engineer can fill that another class can’t fill better?

The answer: no.

I’d say there are many things that the Engineer is excellent at: Vulnerability stacking and condition removal for starters. Between Super Elixir, Fumigate, and the Healing Turret, you can cleanse 36 individual conditions off an ally every minute. That averages out to one cleanse every 2 seconds. Any Grenadier can easily fit that into their build while still stacking to 25 Vulnerability and Bleeding for one of the best DPS builds across all classes in the game. Or a Flamethrower/Bomb Kit Engineer can easily fit that into their build while still stacking Might better than or equal to any Guardian or Elementalist.

But really, this is all beside the point. The strength of the Engineer is not being superior in any role but its flexibility, and its ability to be good in multiple roles rather than being the master of one.

Vulnerability stacking: Ranger says hi.
Condition removal: Ranger and Guardian say hi.
Might stacking: Might stacking is not inherently useful. All it does is increase your DPS, and to that end, Warrior, Thief, and Necro all say hi.
Flexibility: Elementalist says hi.

I still have to find players that actually stay in the area when i put down a super elixir, by the way; still, if they would do that, the enemies would probably aoe that area as well, ruining any reason of staying there for healing purposes.
And while we’re good at condition removals, aside from the Mai Trin fight, i don’t remember a single situation where i can say that those were really useful. Especially since you need your allies packed up together, due to the AoE of those effects and having to aim them yourself (something that almost all our support skills have in common, unlike other classes’ shouts, and that imho greatly decreases their usefulness – especially with tossed elixirs like B and H…trying to aim for an ally during a battle means you’ll probably waste them).

XelNigma.6315:

Games that have a class that focus on turrets make that class to be static.
Lets look at other games. TF2 is well known, This game is very mobile, you have people running and jumping and even rocket jumping all over the place. But then you have the engineer class, designed not to do any of that stuff, cant move quick, cant jump high. His role is to control an area and make it his. Often known as “Area denial”.

Lets look at another game, Global Agenda. This game is even more mobile than TF2 seeing as every one has jetpacks. Like before you have a class thats designed to set in 1 spot and control an area with turrets and buff stations.

These kind of classes focus on haveing a zone of control that hurts/debuffs enemys and heal/buffs allies. This is the kind of class I was hopeing the Gw2 Engineer was.
We have the tools; the healing turret, several combat turrets for different situation, even gadgets like mines and a bomb kit that all say “This is my spot, Get out!”
Even an elite that drops a realy built base on the head of our enemys.

Hey I dont make the rules.
Warriors are almost always the masters of melee combat.
Rangers are almost always the masters of ranged combat.
Spellcasters are almost always the masters of AoEs
Thiefs are almost always the masters of Spike Damage.
And Engineers are almost always the masters of Zone of Control.

Of corse this doesnt always have to be true. You could easly have a class that summons demons and demonic spires to function like turrets and healing stations.
But most game devs dont tend to be that creative, so it defaults to the engieer with his turrets that get the job of Zone of Control. Less confusing for the player base that way too.

To wrap up this rambling, Being static should be to the classes advantage.

Your post would have been well-made if not for the fact that turrets are so useless. Engineers aren’t mobile because they are meant to be masters of zone control with turrets, according to you… And yet who honestly uses turrets and can do so while being as effective as other classes?

lol i know what CC is but again, i was just following ur format so u wouldnt be confused, mistake on my part i guess tho >:[

It confuses me how you keep spelling immobilize wrong. Which for me is good because i can tell when you badly edit my posts you quote. You clearly didn’t understand what was meant by control
Knockback – teleports opponent(s) away from the CCer – on the page linked. Go and see.

btw if cripple is gonan put on the same category as immobalize and launch, then you should look to warrior sword, it has a cripple on auto attack and another cripple on #2, spammable cripple OP

Hurr Durr I compare melee to ranged…and talk about how warrior auto attacks cripple but can’t work out that Ranger’s auto attacks immobilize totally makes me look like a fool…even though my point is miles off!

I agree with you kontrolle on the bomb trait, that kitten should just come that size standard without trait use, otherwise I agree they are almost impossible to hit with.

VIVorcha.7853:

Might stacking is not inherently useful.

Okay. I think I’m done here.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Most Static Discharge builds revolve around using gadgets. Have you not tried it?

Umm, the standard static discharge build uses exactly one gadget, utility goggles. The other two slots are rifle turret and tool kit. If launch pbr was insta cast then you would see the standard switch to utility goggles/pbr/tool kit, but that has yet to happen and probably won’t.

Phineas Poe.3018:

VIVorcha.7853:

Might stacking is not inherently useful.

Okay. I think I’m done here.

I think you are misreading this. I feel vivorcha sees the ease in which 2 guardians can grant an entire group 25 might stacks, and then sees the difficulty it takes for an engineer to accomplish the same thing through fire fields/blast finishers, unless they spec for mass turrets/bomb kit to get four blast finishers. But then you are just creating an entire build around might stacking and are really poor in other areas, especially considering you just put all your toolbelt skills and turrets on cooldown just to stack might.

Then again, the grass is always greener right?

Just as an aside phineas, maybe people would be more apt to open a discussion with you if you refrained from making snap one sentence remarks and asked why they wrote such a statement.

VIVorcha.7853:

Might stacking: Might stacking is not inherently useful. All it does is increase your DPS…

Phineas, what you should of done here is ask him why he thinks increasing your DPS is bad. I am in agreement with you though, I do not understand why Vorcha thinks it’s bad to stack might. When I roll with 2 guardians and I get 25 stacks of might my condition damage is nearly 3000. Do you have any idea how much bleed and burn ticks for at that number? You can literally condi-shot thieves with that much might.

What I think, and what I HOPE Vivorcha means is that it’s not useful for an engineer to stack might for his group as it is far more difficult and costly. If I was stacking group might with turrets and bomb kit then all of my turrets/toolbelt skills and BoB would be on cooldown. If I was using rocket boots and elixir gun then TWO of my escape mechanisms would be on cooldown, JUST to stack might.

Decklan.7540:

Umm, the standard static discharge build uses exactly one gadget, utility goggles.

Just because the cookie cutter setup for Static Discharge has Tool Kit and Rifle Turret in it, that doesn’t mean all Static Discharge builds work that way. There are many situations where having a knockback like Throw Mine or Personal Battering Ram is a lot more useful, never mind the fact that Launch Personal Battering Ram does a lot more damage than Surprise Shot and also applies Cripple. Throw Mine itself is a Blast finisher, and Mine Field removes 5 boons.

Decklan.7540:

I think you are misreading this.

He very clearly states that he believes stacking Might is not inherently useful because, and I quote: “all it does is increase your DPS.” Not really sure what there is to misinterpret or misread.

If you take issue with how I respond to that, then use the report feature and let the moderators handle the rest.

Engineers are good at stacking might on themselves, but not so great at doing it for a group. Stacking might on yourself is not inherently useful unless the result is that you can out-DPS other classes.

VIVorcha.7853:

Engineers are good at stacking might on themselves, but not so great at doing it for a group. Stacking might on yourself is not inherently useful unless the result is that you can out-DPS other classes.

Not necessarily. Warriors are a very good DPS class, perhaps the best in the game, but their Might stacking options are nothing compared to ours. They have a Fire field in their Bow and Blast finishers from their Warhorn and Banners, but while stacking Might they do relatively no damage. Essentially, they’ll buff their allies’ damage while doing none themselves.

This is where an Engineer differs. We can detonate mines and turrets while activating other skills for Blast finishers—in our own fields, or others’. The Engineer is actually very well designed in the fact that we can buff allies while still dishing out damage. A great example of this is Acid Bomb, a skill that ticks for over 3K a second in Berserker/Scholar gear against most enemies for six seconds. It’s also a Blast finisher. Using it actually increases your own DPS while also giving 3 stacks of Might to yourself and your allies within range of a Fire field.

I’ve spent a lot of time tweaking my rotation so that it provides 12-15 stacks of Might at 95%+ upkeep (down for only a couple seconds, really) for my group at no cost to my own DPS, so your assertion that we are not effective Might stackers in group situations is incorrect.

Your assertion that an Engineer is not “inherently useful” unless we dish out more DPS is also kind of unfair. I’m already responsible for pretty much ALL the condition removal so the one Warrior in the group can use For Great Justice along with 2 Banners. I’m basically the sole thing that keeps him alive aside from his Healing Signet while I’m also assisting the one Guardian in the group with projectile walls through Toss Elixir U. And I’m giving everyone in my group 15 stacks of Might every 25 seconds. God forbid I don’t also max out as the highest DPSer in the group—there are 4 other people in my group that can pick up some of the slack. Jesus.

VIVorcha.7853:

Also, think about PVE content: Is there a single role that an Engineer can fill that another class can’t fill better?

The answer: no.

Here’s two.

Support and Burst DPS. They are all but a joke in this class due to the nerfed explosion radius mostly and due to the extra steps we have to take to get an AOE heal that the other classes simply don’t have to deal with. And the traits for this “adventurer class” aren’t anywhere near where they should be to enhance the output of burst dps, we have missing traits that the other two classes have.

Might stacking is actually inherently messed up for an engineer because you basically have to be drunk and covered in your own potion filth before seeing any results while Guardians only have to use 1 skill for 4 seconds and bam they have 25 instantly and this skill they use heals them!

Oolune.4357:

Your post would have been well-made if not for the fact that turrets are so useless. Engineers aren’t mobile because they are meant to be masters of zone control with turrets, according to you… And yet who honestly uses turrets and can do so while being as effective as other classes?

Thats my point, turrets are in such a bad state right now no one uses them, for good reason.
I should point out zone control isnt the only role an engi can/should do. Depending on your weapon, trait and utility slots you can have several different builds and playstyles.

I’m just saying that classes like engineer in game tend to focus on zone control and area denial. Much like how a warrior is always the up in your face hack and slasher, or the thief is the spike damage backstabber. In GW2 we can have a warrior that stands back and uses a rifle or bow, or a thief that uses pistols for constant damage rather than spike.
But it just so happens in gw2 that the “best” builds for warrior and thief just happen to be the in your face melee guy and spike damage backstabber.

I’m disappointed that the engineer cant really play how the class is often known for across the worlds of gaming, Zone control and area denial.
Having alternate playstyles and builds for classes is a great thing. Unfortunately the way I would like to play doesnt work, even tho we have utility skills and stuff that at a glance would suggest I could, they fall short, WAY short.

I’m not looking for “my way” to be the best way. I just want it to be a possibility when playing the game instead having utility skills that are constantly on cooldown because the turret died 2 seconds after being deployed. I dont care if it takes me twice as long to kill something as the better builds, just so long as I can use my turrets and stuff during the fight and feel like they are helping.

I may read the entire thread tomorrow but for now I am glad this thread exists. Lets keep to constructive ideas rolling.

Turrets really do needs some major love though. Like massive love.

I cant imagine any situation where they are useful, and its not just from bugs. They need a buff + bug fixes.

I’m starting to think that ANet could produce something interesting if we could modify how weapon skills work in a real manner using either traits or a system similar to how we select utility skills.

For me, glue shot is borderline pointless. I find all this hoopla about movement as defense aggravating as long as the control scheme of the game is classical MMO rather than a more shooter oriented one.

As such, i would love to be able to swap out glue shot for something that leave a lingering damage field. I would also love to swap out all these knockbacks (self and opponent) for knockdowns. This so i do not have to chase the target down all the time (in PVE you can’t knock a mob off ledges anyways).

There are oh so many skills floating around this game that makes virtually no sense outside of SPVP, with some maybe having some value in WVW because of how differently the game treats characters compared to mobs.

In most other MMOs, if i don’t like a skill i can leave it off the bar and make room for other skills. But in GW2 i can’t. Any skill i don’t use for some reason in effect leave a vacant spot on the bar.

i don’t understand why people cry about such silly things when it comes to engineers.

i get an extra 3 condi removals, stability, stealth, might stacks with my tool belt skills and that’s somehow less useful than your example of warrior adrenaline, something that’s completely worthless unless they charge it up or blow their heal? and if you’re using toss elixirs for their random boons well you’re just gimping yourself. if you’re running elixirs, you should have at least 409. that’s multiple aoe condi removals. if you’re also running hgh then it’s another might stack. the random boons are just bonuses.

if you’re running a power build, elixir x is an extremely powerful point control tool in tpvp and in general does a lot of damage. i don’t see an issue with elixir x.

anet didn’t nerf kits. the kits are exactly the same as they were prepatch.

down 2 is an interrupt like many other down 2 abilities and it has synergy with our down 3 which is ANOTHER interrupt that’s also aoe and a blast finisher. what exactly is wrong with our down skills?

you say our traits are a joke, and yet give no reasoning other than “oh look at this trait nobody uses” as if we are completely unique in that department. and your example complaint about mobility and endurance regeneration doesn’t even take into account the fact that we have permanent vigor and swiftness. god what a joke those traits are!

tldr engineers are fine.

VIVorcha.7853:

Also, think about PVE content: Is there a single role that an Engineer can fill that another class can’t fill better?

The answer: no.

Support. Best Burst Healers in the game. Best Vulnerability stackers in the game.

VIVorcha.7853:

Engineers are good at stacking might on themselves, but not so great at doing it for a group. Stacking might on yourself is not inherently useful unless the result is that you can out-DPS other classes.

Not good at might stacking for other people? I can get up to 18 stacks on my team when fighting on a point.

i get an extra 3 condi removals, stability, stealth, might stacks with my tool belt skills and that’s somehow less useful than your example of warrior adrenaline, something that’s

Best tool belt ever!? mine doesn’t do half of that….or could it be your not taking into account at all RNG…

Tool belt skills are not our mechanic, comparing them to adrenaline is wrong. We have no weapon swap but we do have kits…this means our utility comes from tool belt and our weapon swaps on utility slots…this is why our utilities on the surface seem weaker, when you take into account the tool belt it evens out.

i get an extra 3 condi removals, stability, stealth, might stacks with my tool belt skills and that’s somehow less useful than your example of warrior adrenaline, something that’s

Best tool belt ever!? mine doesn’t do half of that….or could it be your not taking into account at all RNG…and your using 3 elixirs giving you no kits…

Tool belt skills are not the same, comparing them to adrenaline is wrong. We have no weapon swap but we do have kits…this means our utility comes from tool belt and our weapon swaps on utility slots…this is why our utilities on the surface seem weaker, when you take into account the tool belt it evens out.

Dirame.8521:

VIVorcha.7853:

Also, think about PVE content: Is there a single role that an Engineer can fill that another class can’t fill better?

The answer: no.

Support. Best Burst Healers in the game. Best Vulnerability stackers in the game.

Dunno on the healer.

Elementalists come out slightly ahead using evasive arcana, healing wave (dagger #5) and Healing ripple (minor master tier trait). And at least 3 of those will be ready quite quickly (evasive arcana in 5-10 seconds depending on vigor, Healing ripple in 10 with maxed arcana trait line).

Most of our blast finishers have a recharge of 20 second or longer. Never mind that we are required to supply (or find) a water field, while the elementalist can do their healing whenever.

Conan.8046:

Best tool belt ever!? mine doesn’t do half of that….or could it be your not taking into account at all RNG…and your using 3 elixirs giving you no kits…

i run elixir h, b, s, and grenade kit that’s 3 elixirs and a kit. that’s 3 aoe condi removals, stability/stealth, and other random boons + might stacks on the tool belt alone. the fact that anyone can say that that’s bad is beyond my ability to comprehend. the only randomness is stability vs stealth. i don’t care for the other random toss elixir boons. i’ve not once thrown an elixir b and hoped for one of the boons. i throw them to remove a condition and stack might. anything extra i get is just that, extra.

@Dirame:
Best Burst healer in the game still probably goes to Elementalist, yeah, as digiowl has mentioned.

A full Water attunement combo with 15+ Water in Scepter/Dagger or Dagger/Dagger is around 6-7k plus depending on how much Healing Power you have. Evasive Arcana, Cleansing Wave and Heal on Water Attunement also scale 1:1 with Healing Power; on shorter overall cooldowns – and this is without using the 6 skill on top of that.

Blasting a Water field will always be constrained by the base value of 1320 and 0.2 scaling; whereas this scaling limitation is bypassed by the Elementalists’s 1:1 ratios.

That said, there are pet peeves I have with the Engineer:

• Blunderbuss really needs to have a really really good reward for getting into 100 range – or provide utility beyond 4 Bleeds. I believe that this is where some calls for putting a Blast finisher on Blunderbuss comes from. I would like to see some improvement in either of: CC – Cripple instead of bleed or Damage – <130 range should really be 2.0 scaling, not just 1.6; and 130-400 range should really be 1.2, not half base damage and 1.0 scaling.

• Magnet Pull goes crazy on inclines. If an AOE pull for Mesmer’s Focus can be implemented relatively bug free, without causing rubberbanding even on rough terrain, there really needs to be a fix to Magnet for it to do the same thing.

• Engineer lacks sustained, single target damage options that aren’t ranged or AOE that are competitive with other classes’ DPS rotations. The best we have are Grenades, whilst our main hand weapon skills languish.

• Flamethrower is a Retaliation trap. I believe that double damage with only 5 pulses and a better scaling with Power should be a good first step.

• Turrets languish half-way in balance between semi-permanent entities – Rocket Turret, Net Turret, Thumper Turret – and disposable gadgets – Healing Turret, Rifle Turret.
• Make them fully disposable with low CD, high DPS if left unchecked, <100% uptime and self-destructing on Overcharge to emphasise the disposable gadget part. This would increase Turret Engineer mobility and allow Arenanet to keep them as non-stat scaling entities; whilst promoting an active playstyle. AI should not have 100% uptime in this game as it is very volatile to balance.

• Engineer Rifle needs to have some kind of boost in damage to controlled foes like Unsuspecting Foe . Sitting Duck was a good start, but there needs to also be a reward for Hip Shot dealing extra damage once you enter close range – otherwise Rifle is largely predicated upon Static Discharge Burst; and the Engineer puts himself at risk for minimal reward and minimal chance for escaping retaliation.

That reminds me:

• SD builds are all-or-nothing, kill-or-be-killed burst builds that incorporate too little condition clear and escapability. There does need to be some kind of sustained direct damage build outside of Grenades that doesn’t rely upon SD to 100-0 someone in a single rotation.
  Traits like Modified Ammunition increase Rifle’s burst potential – yet few traits exist to turn it into a high sustained DPS, high CC weapon that some classes like Warrior have with Mace/Shield, GS.

MonMalthias.4763:

@Dirame:
Best Burst healer in the game still probably goes to Elementalist, yeah, as digiowl has mentioned.

A full Water attunement combo with 15+ Water in Scepter/Dagger or Dagger/Dagger is around 6-7k plus depending on how much Healing Power you have. Evasive Arcana, Cleansing Wave and Heal on Water Attunement also scale 1:1 with Healing Power; on shorter overall cooldowns – and this is without using the 6 skill on top of that.

Blasting a Water field will always be constrained by the base value of 1320 and 0.2 scaling; whereas this scaling limitation is bypassed by the Elementalists’s 1:1 ratios.

Nope, I already spent time calculating this. If I wanted to specc as a support Engie, I only need Healing turret, 3 blast finishers, Rune of Water, and an elixir gun to beat the Ele.

With PvP stats;
Mine gadget (or BoB), Healing turret detonate, Acid Bomb = 4791
Super Elixir = 1255 impact heal (not counting regen ticks)
Healing turret AoE heal = 3214
Rune of Water AoE heal = 1384
= 10644

Whilst a Scepter dagger Ele in PvP can only do 8K excluding regen ticks

And all of those are on a 20-30 second CD.

If we were talking mobile heals, the Ele would win because the only thing the Engie can do effectively whilst the team is moving is Healing turret and Super Elixir and that would come to about 7.4K in PvP.

VIVorcha.7853:

Okay, I admit I was wrong that we don’t have many builds. I’ve never really explored those options because I despise kit-switching and elixirs. I rolled Engineer for three things:

1. Guns
2. Turrets
3. Gadgets

But it’s virtually impossible to make a build that uses Gadgets and regular weapons, because they have a huge cooldown, give mediocre effects (mostly), and Speedy Gadgets doesn’t affect toolbelts, which seems like a bug.

I’ve also tried making a turret build, and the result was “Place Turrets>Turrets Die>Get Downed”

Turrets should be formidable, static opponents. If I have a setup of three turrets, I should be putting out a lot of DPS on that alone. In PVP and WVW, enemies should be forced to focus on turrets to destroy them, rather than casually dropping AOE. My turret nest should be my domain, with a fully traited one offering insane DPS that can tear apart individual enemies.

Think TF2 engi, slightly less so.

AND THE DOWNED SKILLS.

I cannot emphasize enough how much these need improvement. Elementalists got a full revamp shortly after the release of the game, and we need one as well.

Im going to go ahead and agree with you for once… Turrets need some help in a big way. Ill still say that providing a realistic suggestion for fixing the issue is more valuable than just stating “there is a problem!”

So in the spirit of fixing stuff here is my idea for buffing turrets. IMO the damage done by turrets is ok (its on par with necro pets) the issue as i see it is mobility. Its easy to avoid a static turret and that is why they feel so weak damage wise.

To fix this i have 2 ideas
1. A new grand master trait that makes our Turrets mobile (not my favorite idea as it feels less “Turrety”)
2. New Elite Turret “Teleporter Turret”
~The turret while dropped would provide some kind of buff to the turrets near it
~The overcharge ability would teleport that Turret and all other Turrets near it to your location
~The toolbelt skill would teleport you to the turret.

Im rather proud of idea #2 so let me know what you think.

Oh and as a side note if you like gadgets play with Goggles and boots (rocket & Slick) all of those are really strong if used right. Also elixirs = win

Just an insult to every engineer:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leg_Mods

This one is even more laughable

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backpack_Regenerator

i mean srsly anet? WTH? The warriors trait is even stronger without any adrenalin, it works always and comes for free. This is insane.

Those things and the lack of stability are the reasons why i play mainly warrior now, like the 23456547 other guys i see in WvW….

@Kontrolle:
As has been said before and no doubt there will be others that have said it before me, it is facetious and useless to take 2 “equivalent” traits from 2 different professions and directly compare them in a vacuum. It fails to take into account the professions other traits, weapon skills and weaknesses.

With regards to Adrenal Health vs Backpack Regenerator, it was originally conceived because Warriors were designed to be weak to conditions and therefore needed some form of sustained regeneration to soft-counter that through traits.

With the addition of Cleansing Ire and changes to Berserker stance along with many other changes to Warrior including a massive boost to the passive regeneration from Healing Signet this trait is now – in the context of Warrior – effectively defunct as Warrior now has “good enough” condition mitigation.

So I would say that it is not Backpack Regenerator that is OP, rather, Adrenal health is – after the condition management changes for warrior .

That being said, I have never and will never take Backpack Regenerator in any build. I believe Teldo used it at one point in his condi-burst far point assault build – and you’ll still see some engineers running it because they copy-pasted his innovation – but it is far inferior to something like Protection Injection where the additional mitigation you have while disabled is far stronger than any passive health regeneration.

I wouldn’t mind a rework of the trait though. Passive regeneration – even on a specific trigger of requiring a kit to be equipped – is boring and it takes up a Major slot to boot. Perhaps a trait replacement that introduces Stability on a specific trigger may be in order.

With regards to Dogged March – if you look back in the PvP forums you will actually see that some Warriors claimed that it wasn’t enough because at the time their condition clear was simply not there. After Cleansing Ire hit with the Dhuumfire patch though, Dogged March was now optional considering that Restorative Strength and Mobile Strikes was also available along with Berserker Stance.

As for whether Leg Mods is “good enough” in the context of Engineer?

Most of Engineer’s arsenal is ranged – although its best DPS comes at close range when most of its skillshots are guaranteed to hit. I think that Leg Mods is “good enough” considering that ranged abilities have less onus to close the gap to enemies than melee.

That said, Engineer has a heavy, heavy reliance upon dodges for survival. I think one positive change to Leg Mods would be for it to also reduce Weakness duration along with the others. Alternatively, the Vigor boon could be granted for 5 seconds but that might be too much.

One though on turrets i had is this:

Rather than reduce the cooldown when picking up a turret, have it turn into a special “charge” (kinda like the charges of a mesmer mantra) that allow the turret to be instantly deployed again.

details would have to be worked out so that the turret could not be healed in this way (the server would likely treat the turret as if still deployed, and so continue to keep track of its health), nor allow the deployment heal of the healing turret to trigger.

This could lead to other interesting options. Like having the option to detonate a carried turret, meaning the explosion would happen centered on the engineer. And perhaps have the trait Always Prepared deploy any carried turrets.

lol @ MonMalthias i play both, warrior and engineer and for what reason should dogged march so much better then leg-mods? Its T1 AND has additional regen for a class which has insane access to stabillity, the current strongest regeneration, the current strongest mobility, more armor, more hp, more cc and even more crazier condition builds.

So does everything has to be superior on a warrior? We are currently running all warriors in WvW and im almost the only engineer i see in WvW. But i switch more and more to warrior because its just too easy compared to my multikit engineer, which becomes more and more unplayable because all those hammers, fears and whatever.

Funny, I play my Engineer because I know I can take those hammers. Maybe not those fears but I can definitely take those hammers.